Why 63% of Young Men Have Stopped Trying | Scott Galloway

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And conditions apply men are struggling four times as likely to kill themselves three times as likely to be addicted or homeless twelve times as likely to be incarcerated you go into a morgue and there's five people that die by suicide and four men if it was any other group i think we weigh in with programs and empathy i think more and more of them are going to be alone in a room with a screen scott's the host of the impro.

Gpod and co host the pivot and.

Raging moderates podcast he's a best selling author in his latest book notes on being a man is now the number one bestseller at amazon please welcome scott gallio my biggest fans are young men my biggest supporters are mothers as they see what's going on the greatest alliance in history is the alliance between men and women why would you go through the effort the expense the potential rejection humiliation effort when you have synthetic lifelike porn at home how do they survive.

If you're not doing anything except for.

Consuming all day just having men in your life that can give you a little bit of advice and not only that just give you the sense you have value i've been investing in stocks since i was thirteen because of cyra wow i've made tens of millions of dollars investing in stocks it taught me this incredible life skill around investing what.

Would you say are three things you would leave behind if this was the last day on earth for you many.

Years away the biggest unlock of my life was the following.

Welcome back everyone in the school of greatness very excited about our guests we have the inspiring scott galloway in the house who is the number one new york times bestseller of notes on being a man welcome to the show scott thanks it's good.

To see you man excited that you're.

Here congrats on the book thanks we were talking beforehand about that i wrote a book called the mask of masculinity seven years ago that i think was ahead of its time but i think people really need to hear what you're talking about today because there's so much confusion with men in society and so i'm going to give you a layup question to start what is the role of men in society today well i.

Think that's the issue i think that the role was pretty clear it was sort of provider and procreator and now that a lot of the on ramps into a middle class lifestyle a lot of the traditional jobs we've basically torn up the script for women and said you can be anything and women are ascending and that's fantastic twice as many women have been elected to some sort form of parliament globally in the last thirty years more women are now seeking tertiary education globally than men women in urban areas in the us are making more money than men own more single women own homes than men and these are all amazing we should do nothing to get in the way of that but i think sometimes the role of men is a little bit confused now like what is my role and men you know there's just no getting around it men are struggling four times as likely to kill themselves three times as likely to be addicted or homeless twelve times as likely to be incarcerated so i think the question what is a man's role in this society is a little bit up in the air right now and i think that's part of the issue is a lot of men don't feel like they have a code they're not clear yeah i think some of them lack purpose and that is a lot of the natural attributes they would lean into whether it's vocational work whether it's being the provider whether it's initiating romantic interest i don't want to say being the aggressor but the initiator a lot of those things are either not available harder to attain or being frowned upon so what is their role and i mean what happened to auto metal and wood shop gone right if you think about what people are looking for in terms of more women in medical school more women in law school and those are wonderful things but typically the job remember that guy in high school who was never going to go to college or a lot of them but could fix your car sure yeah and would go on and actually make a pretty decent living yeah we have we've essentially replaced all those classes with computer science we've kind of gone all in on the guy who goes to harvard drops out and starts a tech company kind of the nation's been optimized for that person and the majority of men aren't that dude in addition fewer men are going to religious institutions playing sports connecting to work remote work i think has been terrible connecting to relationships and then they're up against the deepest pocketed companies with godlike technology really trying to sequester them from the offline world and relationships and as a result i think you have a cohort of young men who feel a little bit untethered their path is not as clear as it once was don't have the same level of opportunities that my generation had and some of it to be clear was unearned advantage i had too much opportunity relative to other groups but if you know if any other group was if you go into a morgue and there's five people that died by suicide and four men if it was any other group i think it would weigh in with programs and empathy but because of the under advantage of my generation there's a lack of empathy and the stat that i remind people of i understand the gag reflex when i talk about this and that is from nineteen forty five to two thousand a third of the world's economic growth was registered by the five percent of the population in america so we had six times the prosperity of the rest of the world so six acts and then you take all that prosperity and you cram it into the one third of the population that was white male and heterosexual if you were i was kind of born on third base you know my rap till i was about your age was check me out i've overcome you know i didn't have some of the same advantages as my peers but what i've acknowledged now is that i really was born on third base my kind of identity demographics and when and where i was born but unfortunately i think society is holding young men accountable for my unfair advantage and they just don't face the same opportunities they don't have.

The skills also right it's like they don't have the skills to face that unfair advantage i guess or to manage.

It all one hundred percent so you know i had to go into work i had to put on a tie i had you know i had guardrails set up for me and i think that i think remote work has been an absolute disaster for for young people especially men who quite frankly mature later my first job was in downtown la at morgan stanley if i didn't have to get up at seven am put on a tie act a certain way learn to behave i was constantly pulled out of meetings by my boss who was a real mentor and he would say just like don't say that and i needed that and i learned how to interact with people senior to me more successful than me learned how to interact with a boss learned more about how to interact with a woman in a professional environment it was great seasoning for me and while i think remote work is an unlock for people who are caregivers i think it's really a negative for young people and something we don't talk about one in three relationships begin at work so where do people meet and develop friendships mentorships and romantic relationships and the reality is men need young men need romantic relationships or benefit more from them than women a man hasn't been married or cohabitated with a woman by the time he's thirty there's a one in three chance he's going to be a substance abuser there's this cartoon of a woman in her thirties who never found romantic love the reality is she's okay women when they don't have that romantic relationship oftentimes pour that energy back into friends and their professional life men tend to pour it back into more negative things or less productive things online gaming porn oftentimes unfortunately conspiracy theory so quite frankly gambling or something else gambling drugs whatever it might be that it takes on and manifests itself in worse ways so a woman in a relationship lives two to four years longer than a man i'm sorry than a woman not in a relationship but a man lives four to seven years longer widows are happier after their husband dies widowers are less happy after their wife dies so oddly enough men benefit and accrete more advantage in a relationship than a woman does which isn't to say nobody owes it's no one's responsibility to service men or provide them with romantic comfort such that they don't become poor citizens but the reality is i do think society and men of my generation have a debt to pay and that is to try and get emotionally logistically and economically involved in young people's lives and level them up such that they have some of the same opportunities that my generation had yeah it's interesting.

Because i saw this this article on vogue the headline says is having a boyfriend embarrassing now yeah and you know hearing these stats if i'm a woman hearing these stats that essentially i live longer without a man in my life you know who knows the context of all these things but i also i'm fine without a man in some ways yeah why should women get in a relationship with a man if there's also benefit for women being single yeah so.

There'S unfortunately i think that there's besides.

Having a family and raising children and you know providing for society in a different way obviously but and not being.

Alone your whole life there's i think in online media especially but all media there's a romanticization of the independent feminine strong woman and i think a lot of that is really positive but i also think it's created a culture where it's sort of women are encouraged to kind of be one striker out as a man oh he doesn't get along with his parents red flag like every yellow or magenta flag is a red flag and you're this strong independent beautiful woman and you don't need a man and whenever i ask for dating advice the advice i give to men is the first thing i ask is would you want to have sex with you are you in shape do you have a plan are you kind do you demonstrate artisanship and interests in different things how do you demonstrate excellence and the advice i would give to women is what i call a second coffee and that is i think women are celebrated for exiting relationships inspiring carly simon songs about walking out on that man and you don't need a man and when surveys when men are said when men are asked if a woman had eighty percent of everything you want would that suffice for you seventy five percent of men say yeah that'd be great when women presented with the same metric eighty percent of everything you want seventy five percent say that's not enough they need.

Like ninety five percent or one hundred percent of what they want well and.

Again i think that let me go straight to the solve the solve is for men to level up but if you look at kind of the content of what algorithms like it's a lot of women saying like a basic standard metric is because and i think it's happened because of online dating where the metrics get distilled down to some very basic crude things six feet six figures that's not a lot to ask right six feet six figures if you take out married men obese men men under the age of over the age of fifty it's two percent of the population and if you talk to people who've been married longer than thirty years eighty percent of them say one was much more interested in the beginning than the other and it was almost always the man the reality is liz we're less choosy if you have a room with one hundred people fifty men and fifty women and there's alcohol involved the majority of the men would agree to have sex with the majority of the women the majority of the women would sleep with none of the men women are choosier and typically what's happened in these relationships where people end up together is the woman says i wasn't initially that interested but i liked the way he treated his parents at church we hung out with the same friend group and i found he was funny i liked the way he danced i liked the way he smelt i found that he was really kind i was so impressed with him at work he was outstanding at what he does where does a man what venues now does a young man have to demonstrate excellence right if they're not going to church they're not going to school they're not going to work where do they have the opportunity to develop the skills and then demonstrate their strengths and skills over time and instead it's kind of been consolidated now to the one medium where most people are mating or finding dates and that is online and anytime you digitize any market it does become a winner take most environment and then they're up against this almost indomitable foe and that is forty percent of the s and p by market value now is related to ai the magnificent ten and their objective they're not malicious but unwittingly the algorithms have figured out for every second we can take someone out of the organic mammalia world and put them on a screen we can monetize it and the person who is most susceptible to arbitraging their real life to an online life is a young man because of a less mature prefrontal cortex executive function the susceptibility to addiction around constant dopa so ground zero for our economy right now are monetizing our young people to drive trillions of dollars in value is essentially trying to sequester young men from their relationships so i worry that at the hands of this godlike technology regulated by paleolithic instincts and medieval institutions that we're evolving a new species of asocial asexual males and my prediction is unless we weigh in with programs and regulate big tech when you go to malls i'm doing a live podcast tonight with two thousand people i think you are going visibly see fewer and fewer young men i think they are going out or.

Going to events going out in the.

Real world i think more and more of them are going to be alone in a room with a screen and why go through the pecking order of trying to establish friends when you have reddit and discord why put on a tie show up try and navigate the difficulties and complexities of the workplace when you think you can trade stocks or crypto on robinhood or coinbase and why would you go through the effort the expense the potential rejection humiliation effort perseverance willingness to endure rejection involved in establishing a romantic or a sexual relationship when you have synthetic lifelike porn at home so i think we're going to have essentially i mean there's now one out of seven men are called neets they're neither in education employment or in training they're literally doing nothing and sixty three percent of men under the age of thirty aren't even trying to date how.

Do they survive if you're not doing anything except for consuming all day and you're not developing skills offline or even online skills to create value in the world how are you surviving is it just you're getting checks from the government or your family or people paying for.

Them or how does this work it's a really good question there are government services everything from snap to unemployment to welfare to medicaid they you know they got they you know had stimulus tax during COVID one out of three men under the age of twenty five is living at their parents one out of five under the age of thirty at thirty one in five men are still living at home so i think that some part time work some government assistance their parents but yeah a lot of men and i wouldn't even say man because kind of my yoda around all of this is richard reeves if you had richard on your podcast so richard brings like the data and the actual rigor i'm just louder than him but he has this great litmus test for when a male becomes a man because i do think a lot of males die never really having become men when.

Does a male become a man i.

Love this term used as surplus value when you approach relationships from a generative viewpoint so growing up i say to my boys you're negative value right now you got a school spending a ton of time and resources on you your parents are giving you more love than you're giving us society is providing you with roads if you call nine one one something's going to pick up you're not generating any tax revenue you're not adding value you're negative value everywhere and at some point i think when you become a man it's not when it's not age it's not some sort of religious ceremony it's when you are generating more economic value than you're absorbing it's when you're noticing people's lives and absorbing more complaints than you're making quite frankly it's when you're giving more love and more cloud cover for other people than you have received you're adding surplus value is the term that richard uses right yes and i think a lot of males never get there never get i still have i still know people who call their parents and complain when their parents are eighty and it's like okay at some point it needs to flip where you're taking care of your parents and also i came to this conclusion recognizing i didn't really by that standard become a man until i was in my forties because i used to be that guy that approached every relationship of if i wasn't getting more joy and camaraderie from a friend than i was giving it was like i'm on the wrong side of this capitalist trade and i'd exit the friendship interesting if i spent time with my girlfriend's parents when they were in town i would expect her to spend as much or more time if i felt an employee wasn't giving me a lot more value than i was paying them i'm thinking okay this isn't working and i'd let them go i was all about this mindset of relationships as a transaction and then what i've come to realize is that's the opposite of what it means to add surplus value and be a man that the ultimate kind of litmus test is first you got to take care of yourself you got to fix your own oxygen mask then you take care of your family then you take care of your community ideally take care of your country or protect your country and then the ultimate expression i think of manhood is you plant trees the shade of which you'll never sit under so it's been kind of a journey for me but i like the idea this notion of surplus generative value in relationships.

I love that i used to think that you become a man and maybe it's more emotionally or spiritually when you have a child and when you lose your father like you have to step into some type of spiritual breakthrough and yeah but then i was like okay well anyone could have kids they could just have lots of kids but not really be there as a father as a dad so and when i lost my father a few years ago i really felt like oh something shifted in me and i almost i lost him mentally twenty years ago when he went through a brain injury he had an accident and he he was alive physically but emotionally he wasn't available yeah he wasn't a provider anymore with spiritual emotional or financial support yeah so it's more like i had to support him and our family had to support him but then when he fully passed physically it's like something also shifted at a whole nother level of like oh i really need to step into this spiritual or psychological way of being now because i can no longer rely that my father's going to rescue me yeah even though he was here like maybe he could have bailed me out some way but no longer can my father bail me out yeah and now having twins it's like oh i have to i get to continue to step up as a man continue to step up as a leader to myself a leader to my spouse a leader to our extended families yeah and provide emotionally spiritually physically financially yeah and continue to evolve i can't be i don't know i don't have the ability anymore to act like a child yeah you know what i mean i can be childlike energetically but i have to be able to provide a space to serve and serve beyond me obviously i need to take care of me but the goal that i'm hearing you say is how can we add way more value than we're taking and i think that is part of it so i don't know what my definition now is like or when you truly become it i don't know if you can truly step into like manhood if your father still alive and if you don't have kids i don't know if there's still some like childish boy energy until one of those things happen but i don't know what are your thoughts on that the school of greatness is brought to you in partnership with airbnb the holidays are such a special time to travel and gather with loved ones think about some of your best trips those cozy spaces thoughtful touches and the feeling of being right at home wherever you are now imagine getting to provide that same experience for someone else because when you travel your place is just sitting empty while you're away hosting on airbnb can be a no brainer and in a season where new experiences creating lasting memories it's a unique way to help others make their own and martha and i both travel a lot especially with her family in mexico and mine all over the usa so we know what it's like to be on the go during the holidays and from our experience hosting has always been easy and straightforward and whether you're traveling often or just once in a while it can be a simple way to earn a 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Lot of people become men who never have kids so the way you talked about kind of birth and death are tremendous points of inspiration to kind of grow up and start behaving in a way that makes you men but i think a lot of people have kids and never become men that's true and a lot of people who have parents live well into their fifties or sixties never become a man but what you say resonates in the sense that i think of kind of the two i would say what motivated me to be a better man or get to manhood and they both involve women and one's more virtuous than the other and that is when my mom i was kind of sleepwalking through life didn't get my act together until i was about twenty five twenty six and my mom got really sick and i didn't have the money she called me from graduate i was in graduate school she'd had her second mastectomy and got discharged early from the hospital because hospitals are expensive and she was at home and she called me and said you need to come home i'm really in a bad way my mom was not dramatic so i got on a flight back from berkeley and i walked into the situation louis that i i just didn't know how to deal with it and there's just certain things a son can't do for his mother and i remember thinking i need to get her a nurse and i called the nurses were thirty five bucks an hour and i had about seven hundred dollars in my name and just the shame it's like okay i'm the man i'm i'm the only son the only child of a single immigrant mother taking care of me my whole life she's really vulnerable right now and i can't live up to my expectations yeah that's tough that was really upsetting and at that moment i decided look you can't decide to be economically secur but you can decide to kind of go all in and that's when i really got my act together and said okay you can't control the market trumps individual dynamics and there's some exceptionally talented people that work really hard their whole life and take risks and never get there so you can't control that but the things you can't control i decided i was going to work really hard that was very motivating for me and then the other thing is less virtuous i noticed early that guys who had their together professionally and economically they attracted more women seem to be attracting a broader selection set of mates and i even saw it through ucla the freshmen were interested in guys that were funny and cool and dressed well and by the time they were seniors they were very interested in that guy going to medical school and we don't like to talk about this but women are attracted to men for three reasons the first is to signal resources and you don't have to show up with a range rover or panerai you can just be someone who has shit together it's like this guy's going to be a good provider the second is humor we talked about this in the last one or intellect and then the third and this i think is the most underleveraged secret weapon in mating for a man is kindness and that is women instinctively believe at some point they'll be vulnerable because of gestation or they're physically smaller so they're very drawn to men who demonstrate kindness and that is acts of generosity with no reciprocal expectation so and that's the most people most men understand one and two but what they don't understand is they need a kindness practice because i do think you can learn kindness it starts with manners but if you try to you know small acts of generosity every day i do think it starts to become second second nature but i wanted to take care of my mom and quite frankly i wanted more dates and that was those both those things were very motivating for me to try and be a better man and then what you talked about having kids.

How old were you when you had.

Kids i started late i was forty.

Two yeah me too you're forty two.

Oh you're forty two just just had kids yeah you at forty two is a different look than me at forty two anyways i but when my kid came marching or had the poor judgment to come marching out of my girlfriend it was two thousand eight and i had lost everything right at the housing crisis yeah i had gone always gone all in i kind of came a professional agent san francisco where you're supposed to go all in borrow money against your stocks and i you were kind of taught if you're really talented you're in it to win it and you can you know i'm so awesome that if i throw myself at something one hundred percent it's going to win not recognizing again the power of diversity so i've been wealthy three times which means i've lost it twice and i lost it in two thousand then i crawled my way back had a kid and literally at that moment lost everything because i was too stupid to diversify you written a book on money i hadn't learned the power of diversification and when my kid entered the world it wasn't bright lights and angels singing i literally felt anxiety and shame i'm like not only have i screwed up for me but now i've screwed up for someone who is totally dependent upon me and granted i struggle with depression so i have a tendency to see dark things as black but i remember i was so nauseous and so anxious that i had to sit down they were more worried about me i think than the mother of the kid at that point and i couldn't say i feel failure i feel like i've already let this thing down you know this so for me that was very motivating i think having kids is stressful i'm not saying it's for everybody but it definitely has made me a better man because i want to model good behavior i take being a provider and a protector much more seriously now and so i do think you know this kind of the three legs of the masculinity stool provider protector procreator i do think those are decent legs of the stool and what you the skills and strengths and attributes you want to develop to be all three of those things are loosely speaking what i believe it means to be quite frankly masculine but the book is really more about where i screwed up and what i learned from it and tried to evolve around it but yeah my first encounter i know you just had twins you're doing much better than i was at that moment but i felt a ton of stress and anxiety but it also was very productive for me and one of the things i worry about with my kids is that i didn't grow up with a lot at least not economically and i always say if i had what my kids have i wouldn't have what i have and a lot of what i think about is how do you instill that sense of grit and a little bit of fear is probably good in kids because the things that really motivated me if i had what my kids have the only things i know i would have engaged in is like a range rover and a cocaine habit i'm a fundamentally lazy person when i was younger i didn't want to save the world i wasn't kind i wasn't trying to add value i wanted economic security because an absence of it had caused so much anxiety in my life and you know i think that if you if you grow up with money did you grow up with money no if people have money i think they can sympathize with people who don't but i don't really think they can fully empathize because it's as if like my mom and i had this ghost following us around saying you're not worthy like you screwed up you and your mom screwed up when i didn't get into ucla down the road they had a seventy four percent admissions rate and i was one of the twenty six percent that didn't get in i remember people i went to my friend's parents and they knew i hadn't gotten in they're like you should get on a plane tomorrow and go to michigan and show up at the admissions office and you're so smart and i'm like listening i'm like go to michigan i don't have a credit card i've been on a plane like twice we don't have that kind of money i can't afford to spend two or three hundred dollars to go and show there's just a lack of confidence a lack of contacts a lack of quite frankly a sophistication that people with money can't even relate to and the anxiety i remember like this i don't call it trauma people have worse trauma i was one of the i'm one of those people that's always five minutes away from losing your keys i lose everything and my ex wife used to say if my dick wasn't attached we'd find it on a card table in soho next to a goodfellas script and a nirvana album and i lost two jackets in one week and jackets were thirty bucks for some reason it was like a monopoly or a cartel and jackets and i remember just the fear and anxiety i purposely spent the night at my friends two nights in a row because i just couldn't face telling my mom i'd lost another jacket you know because i knew she was going to melt down my mom was in a very vulnerable place and she would just lose her and that was very distressing so i've been so focused and some of the critiques of the book is that and it's actually an accurate critique it's that i'm too focused on money and then i think money will solve a man's problems and that's actually a really accurate critique but that comes from a place of not having it and things just got so much easier and better for me once i had economic security well i think it's part.

Of it for sure like you said but also if you're not kind and you have money you're gonna just ruin people's lives if you're just like mean okay i have all the money i have resources i'm funny and i'm intelligent but i'm mean that is a disaster for any person coming into a relationship with them whether it be a business partner or a team member if they're.

Running a business or the president the.

President or a finance i say that.

I don't know the political leanings of you or your audience but i find that some of the role models for masculinity that we should naturally look up to the wealthiest man in the world he's won capitalism and the president and i don't think they're very strong role models for young men i think they've conflated masculinity with coarseness and cruelty you know being sued concurrently by two women for sole custody of your child because you haven't seen that child that couldn't be any less masculine cutting off aid to hiv positive mothers i just can't think of anything less masculine than that it's like these guys have recognized tremendous prosperity that's really impressive but the whole point of prosperity is you can move to protection that's the whole shooting match right what's the point of prosperity if you can't get off your heels and onto your toes and protect others after you've protected yourself and i think some of the most powerful men in the united states have just missed that whole part of their journey towards manhood i think it's really disappointing even if you look back at the gilded age some of these men who were just rapacious kind of once they got there they did feel a real obligation a civic obligation and that's where i think some of the individuals in big tech and in our government right now i feel as if they've kind of skipped that whole protection part of the masculinity stool.

If you will procreation protection and providing of those are three stools provider provider.

And then move to protection operating system around os protecting not just physical you know guys like your size breakup fights at bars they don't start them right.

But emotional protection psychological protection all these.

Things right when you hear someone talking about someone behind their back your default operating system should be to weigh in and minimum not participate and ideally protect them you may not agree with the transgender community you may be like me and think it's ridiculous that firms have to have legally mandated third bathrooms i don't think that makes any sense i think it's ridiculous that we allowed a transgender woman who's six foot five to show up to an nc two a swim meet i think that's just irrational it starts from a good place but i think that's irrational but at the same time i just don't see any reason why people want to demonize this community and start kicking them out of the military when they're served honorably when we start passing laws in states that say there can't be any transgender athletes in high school and then someone actually says are there any transgender athletes in high school in south dakota and they can't find one that's just demonizing a community this is less than one percent of the american population so yeah have democrats or people on the left gone way too far yeah but then to weigh in with just being mean and demonizing a community so women should be able to cross the street because they see men on that side of the street not avoid them that's really that's heartbreaking that women say they don't feel safe around men right i think we have to teach our young boys from a very early age yes protection is really a key component and then the last one is more controversial is procreation and that is i think men wanting romantic and sexual relationships has been pathologized and demonized and i think it's a feature not a bug because if men want to have relationships and quite frankly sex i didn't see my partner at the pool at the raleigh hotel in south beach and think i would like someday to have a relationship with her to get lower rates on auto insurance i saw her and thought quite frankly i would really like to have sex with that woman and that desire that fire can be destructive yes but most of the time it's fire that's captured in an engine and creates progress progress towards being fit being a better dresser having a rep being a provider having perseverance and developing what i think is the key skill in life across multiple dimensions and that is the ability to endure rejection you know all this you built here this didn't just happen the only thing i know that was involved in this was a lot of no's and the ability the ability to get hit in the face beamed in the face get up dust up and get back to the plate and i think a lot of the skills men develop pursuing relationships are not only informative and educational but really key to developing skills across the rest of their lives and if you ever see someone who you think oh they're talented but they seem to have made more money than i would have guessed or they're with someone higher character and more attractive than them i can almost guarantee you they have one skill set and that is the ability to get out a spoon and eat and every great yes in your life every great yes in your life will involve one thing and that is a ridiculous number of no's that come before it a scary stat that just came out that forty percent of men eighteen to twenty four have never asked a woman out in person wow really so if you're a dude that's willing to go up to a woman figure out a way to express romantic interest while making her feel safe you're almost already in the top half of men but men aren't approaching women and this is anecdotal evidence i don't have data on this but when i go out to places on a regular basis when i speak to single women they'll say i'm here i'm single i'm ready to mingle look at me i look amazing they're signaling it yes and no men approach me and regardless of what the atlantic the new york times will say eighty percent of women still say they want the man to make the approach they don't want to be approaching men it just doesn't feel natural for four out of five women and i worry that men are being tempted have been getting mixed messages no guy wants to be that guy right makes an approach in artful doesn't go well often gets.

Laughed at or gets rejected or it.

Ends up we both work at google and now i'm that guy and there's actual professional ramifications i mean the moment a woman says at work fairly or unfairly oh yeah that guy he hit on me at a bar he's a creep that is not so i think that men wanting to pursue romantic and sexual relationships is a feature not a bug and we demonized and pathologized it and i think we're now getting to a point where people realize that men being initiators and i don't want to say aggressive because that has negative overtones but you know when i coach young men one of the things i tell them is they need to put themselves in the agency of strangers and then we have a practice called no get to know express platonic friendship hey do you want to grab a beer and watch the game and then also maybe romantic interests would you be interested in grabbing coffee first you got to open establish some sort of rapport where you're from you know et cetera and then the key is no because what you're going to do is you're going to call me the next day and i'm going to say how are you and they're going to say oh you know i'm fine and that's the key is developing those calluses i'm alive yeah i'm fine i'm alive and by the way she's fine too she's fine too and if you don't know the difference between expressing platonic and romantic interest and harassing someone you got much bigger problems but where do men even have the venues to do that right now so provider i think you gotta be economically viable in a capitalist society i think your own self esteem the way society judges you is unfairly it's unfairly based on the economic viability for men it's unfairly based on the aesthetic qualities of women and i'm not saying this is the way the world should be but it is the way the world is and then two immediate move to protection i think that's the most rewarding thing about having some prosperity that's when i feel most at rest and most of purpose when i feel like my kids are safe my partner feels noticed i feel i can get involved in great charities i'm doing a lot of virtue signaling right now but it's true but that gives me a sense of purpose and makes me feel strong and then finally i think we've got to celebrate young men's desire to be in relationships i think it's a feature not a bug.

Well i think society is better when men learn to improve themselves so they can attract a female partner or a partner where they can be a better human being they can provide to that partner they're less selfish hopefully they're more thoughtful about how they can serve their friends their family their community if you find a man like that who can improve their life to attract a healthy conscious woman that wants to be with them you're going to have less war less suffering less pain less aggression less anger and less men hurting other people and i think that's what we need as society and i saw you go on the view and there was a reaction video that someone said you know okay scott so you need women to come rescue men because you know unless men are with a great woman then they're going to be you know going around the world hurting people and just like causing a mess and now we have to go and save men yeah yeah you know when they've been oppressing us or hurting us for years and pushing us down like that doesn't work for me so what are your thoughts around that where it's like women feel like they're already working so hard why do they have to come rescue the man now to be a better man are you ready to finally hit your target nutrient levels every day meet groons the daily snack pack of gummies isn't just a multivitamin it's not just a green gummy and it's not just a prebiotic it's all of that rolled into one and then some at a fraction of the price and they taste great here's what makes them stand out while most multivitamins only cover seven to nine vitamins groons bring together over twenty vitamins and minerals plus more than sixty nutrient dense whole food ingredients and those ingredients are known to support things like gut health energy immunity recovery cognition and even beauty because it's in gummy form your body has an easier time absorbing it also we have packs in our studio and they've been a game changer for everyone in the studio we've run out so quickly no powders no handfuls of pills just a pack of tasty gummies and i'm fueling my body with the nutrients it needs use code greatness at groons co to save up to fifty two percent off your first order that's code greatness at gruns co for up to fifty two percent off this show is sponsored by betterhelp you know the holidays can feel a lot like balancing family expectations travel work and trying to make everything perfect it's easy to forget to take care of yourself in the middle of it all i've been there and what i've learned is that when you don't make space to slow down it's hard to actually enjoy the moments that matter most that's why betterhelp is encouraging you to rewrite your traditions this season by making time for you incorporating therapy into your routine can help you pause reflect stay grounded during what can be joyful but sometimes hectic or even lonely time of the year the holidays look different for everyone maybe it's baking your great aunt's sweet potato pie or maybe it's starting something new like a quiet night with friends therapy can be one of those new traditions too better help matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences and if it's not the right fit you can switch anytime this december start a new tradition by taking care of you our listeners get ten percent off at betterhelp dot com lewis that's betterhelp dot.

Com lewis yeah so it's not nobody has an obligation to service or save men especially women i don't you know men have to level up women don't have i don't think women need to lower their standards you know i tell women to agree to a second coffee because traditionally as we referenced before sometimes it takes time time to find that you're interested in this man but i've never ever in any way connoted or intimated and i feel like some of these comments from fair they say these men are just entitled and feel like and women are as you said supposed to come say them i think unless men level up and unless we put in place fiscal programs that restore more economic viability to all young people you can't tell women to lower their standards and save men i get it i one hundred percent get it so my i have three parties that i think need to weigh in here with help one is a society i think we need to stop the transfer of economic power from young to old we transfer one point two trillion dollars every year the biggest transfer in history of money from working age people to old people who are the wealthiest generation in history my generation people my age are seventy two percent wealthier than they were forty percent years ago people under the age of forty are twenty four percent less wealthy this has a disproportionately negative impact on men who are falling behind women because men are still disproportionately evaluated based on their economic viability beyonce could still marry jay z if she worked at mcdonald's the opposite is not true and the reality is men are evaluated as romantic partners disproportionately based on their economic viability so men need to we need fiscal policies that put more money i don't think in men's pockets but in.

Young pockets but is that women who are looking that they don't feel safe if a man doesn't have money or is that women who are attracted to men with money is that i don't.

Know if they don't feel safe but seventy five percent of women say economic viability is key to a partner only twenty five percent of men i mean you've seen the state men mate socioeconomically horizontally and down women horizontally and up and when the pool of horizontal and up because women keep getting taller economically which is wonderful don't do anything get in the way of that the pool of horizontal and up keeps shrinking and so what do you do i don't think we want economic affirmative action for men i think what we want is to stop the transfer of wealth from young to old the two biggest tax deductions in america are mortgage interest rate and capital gains who owns homes and stocks people my age who makes their money from working current income and rents young people and when a young group of people does not have money you end up with a group with women who are two in three women under the age of thirty in a relationship one in three men now why is that that's mathematically impossible it's not because women are dating older because they want more emotionally and economically viable men so i think that we need to weigh in with policies that level up young people again raise minimum wage more progressive tax policy corporations are paying the lowest tax rate since nineteen thirty nine the twenty five wealthiest families are paying about six percent tax rate we just transfer massive economics there's a sucking sound from young people to old people i think it's taken an especially damaging toll on young men and then the second group is i think men my age really need to lean in and get involved in a young man's life or a boy's life because we have a debt.

To mentor young kids well we we.

We had unfair advantage and i understand the gag reflex because they see a guy of my skin color sexual orientation gender and age and think dude you had a three thousand year head start and you're you're you're complaining about men now and i'm like i get it but should a nineteen year old male pay the price for my advantage so we have an obligation especially men of my generation to get involved and try and lift them up and then i also think women play a role because i do think there's an unhealthy zeitgeist in our society where women and progressives say to young men you don't have problems you are the problem and the answer is you need to act more like a woman and i don't think that's the answer either i don't think it is but i feel like sometimes and i hate this term people take this stuff out of context and say you're expecting now women are after finally getting some progress are responsible for saving men no they're not our society is responsible for creating a healthy next generation which means continuing the progress of women and also lifting up our young men who by any standard are really struggling and empathy is not a zero sum game we can still acknowledge the huge obstacles women just face your wife just had twins when women have kids they go to seventy seven cents on the dollar we have not figured out a way to maintain a woman's professional trajectory when she has kids that's a problem black and latino families have an average household net worth of twenty two thousand white families one hundred sixty there's still an economic apartheid in the us but we can acknowledge those problems still exist and work on them but at the same time also realize the country and women are not going to continue to flourish if young men are flailing full stop yes so again empathy is not a zero sum game gay marriage didn't hurt heteronormative marriage civil rights didn't hurt white people helping some of our young men and specifically with programs for young people economically that's not going to hurt women it doesn't come at the cost of women and one of the things i hate about the manosphere what people traditionally think is the manosphere is they believe there is an inverse correlation between women's ascent and how men are doing and the reality is without women's ascent we wouldn't have won world war two hitler wouldn't let women get into the factories he thought they needed to stay home and we let women build p fifty one mustangs and we sent a lot of them overseas to be near the front lines that literally won the war was a big contributor to the war women entering the workforce in the seventies and eighties in the united states is probably the biggest driver of economic growth for the united states and in a capitalist society where our expectations keep going up having dual income households is really important so i think women's ascent has been accretive to men i think it's been great and we need our young men to recognize that when they really lose the script is when they start blaming women for their romantic problems and immigrants for their economic problems that women's success is great for them at the same time i do think that we need to stop this demonizing of there's this thing online this trend where women talk say they're not dating any longer because they could be unalived which i guess is a politically correct term killed murdered unalived unalived unalived yeah if.

They were dating someone they would be.

Killed well no one of the reasons they're no longer dating is they feel like they're taking physical risks being in a man's company because men are violent and two thousand five hundred women every year are murdered that's a huge problem seventy percent by the way by people they've known for a while but if you look at the actual data if you go on a date with a man he's sixteen times sixteen times more likely to go home that night and hurt himself than hurt you why is that i think men sometimes get very look men are engaging in a lot of self harm you go into a morgue and there's five people died by suicide four are men and you're four times more likely to get hurt on the drive over or choke during dinner so we've decided i think the algorithms have decided let's portray young men as quite frankly as a danger to society and the reality is men who are dangerous and the vast majority aren't but the small minority that are are dangerous towards themselves they're much more likely the majority of gun deaths are suicides yeah and so i think that i think that we also need my biggest fans are young men my biggest supporters are mothers because they see what's going on they see i have two daughters and one son one daughter at pen one daughter in pr and my son's in the basement playing video games and vaping so i think that recognizing what i call restoring the alliance and that is the greatest alliance in history is in nato or between democracies the greatest alliance in history is the alliance between men and women i think a combination of masculine and feminine energy in a household makes the happiest most productive households and by the way sometimes two women can bring that chemistry or two men can bring that alchemy right but that combination of masculine and feminine energy i think is a wonderful mix and what the genders have done a great job of is convincing themselves that it's the other gender's fault right men got to stop blaming women that just doesn't hunt right and at the same time i do think that some women and feminists it's actually not feminists i'll call it progressives liberal versus illiberal thought just need to look at the data and think okay lifting up our young men is going.

To be good for everybody yes it is do you think you know i'm here you share that it's great that women are earning more and are constantly progressing in their careers and getting more opportunities than ever and we want to continue that thriving we also want to see men continue to improve especially young men who maybe don't have the skills anymore the tools to become financially successful or they haven't figured it out yet do you think is there any data.

Around.

The majority of women being able to earn more than men and still be attracted to them in a long term romantic relationship is there any data that you've seen around that that women can make more and still be attracted to the man they're with long term.

So seventeen percent of households now the woman is the primary breadwinner and so i do think over time society is.

Becoming but are they attracted to their.

Partner still well okay so this is.

Just because they're together doesn't mean it's.

Happy and like the data is not i'm gonna there's the way the world should be and the way the world is the way the world is is the following is that when the woman in the relationship starts making more money than the man the likelihood of divorce doubles really the use of erectile dysfunction drugs triples because the man feels has less self esteem and has problems so the honest answer is i don't know how to get past we're going to have to figure out things and we're going to have to train our is.

That biology is that like psychology around that that causes these things to these challenges to arise when women earn more than the men they're with i think.

It'S very anthropological and that is women feel innately that their job or one of the things they need to be focused on is how to protect offspring and they need to partner with someone who's strong and can protect them and their offspring and in a capitalist society strength is conflated with economic power so there's just no doubt about it so.

If a woman is stronger financially emotionally physically then it's like why do you need the man then right well so.

Seventy percent of divorce filings are by women and actually the increase in divorce rates is probably a good thing because women no longer feel economically indentured or dependent upon ment anymore yet from that but there's just no getting around it.

So men need to continue to figure out how to earn more than the partners they're with in order to have a happier marriage it sounds like based.

On the data but also at a minimum if a woman ascends economically relationships at the end of the day are somewhat of a transaction if a woman is ascending economically what you see is men aren't stepping up logistically and emotionally and domestically they're not keeping pace without a cent and so at some point the woman in the relationship does the math and says okay i'm the provider i'm the procreator and you aren't stepping up at home then i'm definitely out of here so there's a difference between i think working on the relationship and trying to evolve the relationship which i think a lot of couples where the woman is the primary breadwinner i think they can work through it there's no reason they can't have happy marriages but there's just no getting around it the data shows that innate sexual attraction is at risk when the woman is the provider wow and i'm not saying that that can't work but there's just a lot of data that women lose sexual interest in a man when he fails as a provider or diminishes as a provider the cocktail or the afterburner the fuel on top of that division or dissent is that when men don't step up in the other parts of the.

Life they don't own their role they're not generous if they're not kind if they're not contributing her relationship whatever it.

Might be yeah sometimes i think being part of a provider is quite frankly sometimes getting out of the way and being more supportive of your partner who might be better at that whole money thing and i think we're going to have to figure this out and train our boys to step up emotionally and logistically and domestically because the reality is more women are in medical school more women are in law school we're probably gonna have two to one female to male college grads in the next five years and so women more and more that seventeen percent number is gonna grow so we have to figure out a way to train our boys to say okay wow part of being a provider is contributing on a lot of you know a lot of different dimensions but also there are a ton of main street jobs in vocational programming thirteen percent eleven percent of linkedin profiles in the uk and germany say apprentice it's three percent in the us we don't have an apprentice culture and we have shame vocational jobs i don't know if you've seen all these articles but there's now a bunch of juniors and seventeen year old men in high school who are learning like how to install h vac energy efficient heaters and making eighty or ninety thousand dollars a year by their senior year that's great for them there's actually a lot of vocational jobs ready and we hate to admit this but men seem to enjoy and quite frankly on average not always be better at this type of vocational work that requires sometimes strength or working out mentally outside yeah and so we need to help men level up because i don't think it's what i don't think it is i don't think the descent or the anxiety or the lack of sexual chemistry the sexual diffusion if you will necessarily happens once the woman is making a dollar more it's quite frankly when the guy okay economically maybe you're not there with me but you're not contributing you're.

Not adding that surplus of value in.

Many ways yeah you gotta bring something to the table right and traditionally the roles were very defined the female offered kind of more empathetic understood how to create a healthy loving household better than the men kind of what we call the emotional labor that they that's been undervalued men aren't stepping up around that so it's a very honest conversation it's like okay your wife's doing great you want to be supportive of her because you need money you need economic household but quite frankly boss what are you bringing to the table do you feel.

Like in some ways i'm going to give an example and this is just one example but do you feel in some ways that women have been lied to around the need to be career driven and earn as much as possible and delay having kids and delay getting married as long as you can until you're financially stable and i'll give you context around this and maybe it's just case by case there's someone i know i'm not going to call them out but there's someone i know who is very career focused and driven on their career for probably the last twelve or thirteen years and since college and just always seemed a little frustrated always seemed a little unhappy just always seemed like a little i don't know something was always off around the energy of this person and they just had a child you know maybe six months ago and i've never seen them happier every time around it's like something transformed yeah and there's and it's like she loves being a mother she she's like it is just changed her world in a positive way energetically it's like it's like she's on purpose and she hasn't stopped working she's gone back kind of part time but it's like i can just see her come alive and do you think there's in any way women have been lied to about delay having kids as long as possible make as much as money as you can be financially stable first develop yourself in your career don't rely on the man to do this otherwise you're gonna get screwed over where i just saw someone have the most joy in the last six months of like stepping into this role as a mother maybe that's just one case but what are your thoughts on that i.

Think this sort of you've been lied to you worked hard you became a baller professionally now you're miserable because you didn't take the time to find a man or have a family i think that's a little bit of this trope or this myth from the far right that wants to take women back to the fifties and sixties because okay what if that woman also wasn't able to find a romantic partnership and was also economically insecure true so i don't i find sometimes that's an excuse to try and take to regress and repeal women's rights now i think now the reality is if a man focuses on his career and is out of shape not especially nice but a baller professionally he's still going to find a mate and that's not as true for women a partner at a law firm who's a male who's maybe just modestly attractive and not that nice and not that nurturing he's going to find a wife i'm not sure i mean it's just a little bit unfair quite frankly because we put the same economic responsibilities on women and the same expectations but we don't reward them romantically and sexually with the same currency as we reward a man for that focus so quite frank but i don't think i think women wanting to be economically independent and enjoy having strangers applaud for them on a stage financially and professionally i think we need more of it i do think that both men and women need to make a real effort to approach people be approachable say yes put yourself in situations where you might meet somebody maybe if there's not sparks on the first date give a second coffee a chance but this notion i don't like the rights trope or this narrative around women been lied to and they should be home barefoot and pregnant i just think that's kind of inadvertently saying this is not.

Me politically saying these things i'm just.

Curious about like quite frankly this is what charlie kirk said that women are miserable and here's the data flies in the face of that because you know who's really miserable is the dude that wakes up in his thirties and isn't in a relationship the data is pretty clear men need relationships more than women one of the things i say in the book that's gotten some pushback is you know i try to be very honest i tell my boys that if they're ever in the company of women they pay people say well that's sexist.

I think it's sexist i think it's generous it's adding value it's being courteous it's being thoughtful that's right it's like why is that sexist let's face it.

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Well the way.

The land offer to pay if they say no then okay you don't have.

To i guess no you offer i think you just pay yeah and i'll give my land acknowledgement now so the rationale that i try and propose is that men benefit more from relationships than women there's just you know widow's happier after their husband dies widower is less happy a woman's fertility window is much shorter than a man's the downside of sex for a woman is much greater than a man's bigger risk yeah so when you look at the fact that on average a man's going to benefit more from the relationship that the woman is taking more risks in terms of downside of risk when her fertility window is shorter and when you also acknowledge that almost every mammal has some sort of courtship ritual it makes sense for one way that you recognize that asymmetry one way you step up and say i value your time i value the situation if you will one easy way to recognize and acknowledge that asymmetry is to pay and also innately regardless of what someone might say what i've told my eighteen year old son is anytime you split the check with anyone it means they are never going to kiss you and you are never going to kiss them that's the bottom line and i think those genes are wired into us for thousands of years and regardless of what we say well it's who asked who out i'm just saying to my boys in my view that if you're in the company of women you pay yeah to guys like you're in great shape it's not necessarily because of the aesthetics of being a great shit.

The discipline it says you show up.

It says you can commit to something yes it says that you're on your game it says you're not up every night it says that you know how to show up every day and do something and commit to something so but anyways my point is that going back to the i don't think i think women's professional ascent is great for them i think over the long term it's great for society and great for men but we also have to recognize there's just some externalities and some knock on effects when we're in a society where men are falling behind women economically don't get in the way of this right fix this get men back on track and i don't even like any program that specifically targets men economically other than investing more in vocational programming expanding freshman seats what i'm suggesting is a series of public policy programs that would lift all young people up because it's not about the guy making if the woman's in the relationship is making eighty thousand it's not about the guy needing to make eighty one but the guy needs to be sort of in a weight contributing he needs to be in that weight class where he's contributing and i think a lot of unfortunately a lot of men right now young men are seduced by having a reasonable facsimile of life online and then show up with no skills no ability to contribute to a relationship and i think that's and again when a woman doesn't have a romantic relationship she pours that energy into her friends in her professional life when a man doesn't have a relationship not always but often he pours that energy destructive things right into yeah you know into conspiracy theory online goes extremely online you know all these mass shooters i did some research on political violence and the far left wants to bring the far right far right wants to blame the far left and it's a totally hollow argument ninety eight point six percent of mass shooters are men almost all political violence is committed not only by men but young men and these guys are less politically engaged than probably you or me what do they have in common they're young men not attaching to work not attaching no relationships no relationships economically strained they go extremely online find these conspiracy theories they get radicalized online and then they have access then they have access to guns and again i feel i have to do another land acknowledgement i'm not suggesting that it's women's responsibility to solve this problem i'm suggesting as a society if one group is struggling we can focus on lifting them.

Up yeah and that's why i love that you wrote this book notes on being a man and it's one of the reasons why you know eight years ago i wrote the mask of masculinity because i went down my own path of realizing and coming to the awareness that all of these you know shootings the domestic most of the domestic violence in the usa and the world and just any destruction happening in the world is typically from men who haven't healed their traumas or haven't created a healthy conscious respect about themselves and having more tools on how to navigate society in the world better and the mass shooters that you're talking about they have a lot of traumas that they haven't healed yet they haven't processed the wounds of whatever they've gone through they don't have good relationships they're isolated they're alone or at least that's how probably they're feeling and they don't have the tools on how to navigate their mind or their emotions on how to get beyond those things that are destructive and i think that's what you've been talking about in notes on being a man is how to overcome the loneliness feeling the sadness the lack of resourcefulness and having the courage to be in the world dealing with failure over and over and over again and not going back into a cave in your parents basement saying this girl rejected me or this guy made fun of me i'm worthless now i'm traumatized and i'm going to go destroy the world around me and i think when men especially younger boys because i was very internally destructive most of my life i said a lot of mean things to myself i'd physically hurt myself i was never like cutting myself or like going into alcohol but it was more like how can i get into as many fights as possible to be destructive to inflict pain on myself and other people thankfully sports gave me a safe outlet to do that where i could do it in a constructive way but i was still destructive in the process of wanting to inflict as much pain on myself and others because i just felt like i was bad and wrong i felt shameful growing up dealing with sexual abuse from a man that i didn't know i felt like i was worthless yep my brother was in prison for four years when i was eight so just the stress of that on the family dynamics my parents going through divorce listen i was a white man born in ohio and america so i was born on third base in some ways but that doesn't hold back the psychological stress and mess that i had to deal with and a lot of people have to deal with so i could have been completely destructive but there was different moments in my life and different mentors like you mentioned there's a lack of now that came to me and gave me a high five that put their arm around me emotionally spiritually physically and said why are you so destructive why are you trying to hurt yourself so much why are you why are you reacting this way like why are you getting so angry of the littlest things yeah like come over here yeah and i had mentors and i allowed myself to be coached by mentors i didn't push them away i seeked it out as well and there were different seasons in life and stages that i had to fail over and over again and realize oh this behavior is not supportive to me or other people it's hurting people around me friends family girlfriends whatever it might be and i never physically hurt anyone but just like my behavior my reactions when i was younger it wasn't conscious it wasn't healthy and it was based on a wound or multiple wounds that i didn't know how to navigate i didn't know how to heal and it wasn't until i was thirty when i opened up about sexual abuse for the first time to anyone yeah and i finally was able to release some of the shame and then i went down the rabbit hole of studying why i was behaving this way most of my life how i could start the healing process and how i could be a better person in the world it's the same time when i launched the school of greatness because i was like i need to humble myself i need to learn from great men like yourself who have mastered this or understand the science of this and how can i start to apply this to myself how can i be a student of life and i feel like that's where a lot of young men are struggling they don't know how to manage the emotional psychological spiritual physical traumas that they've been through and listen it may not be as traumatic as what a lot of people are going through in the world but still you've got to learn how to overcome it and when we have the tools like your book on how to navigate the wounds that we've all been through men and women i feel like we can become more peaceful internally and when we're peaceful internally were usually better externally but most men don't know how to have peace in their heart yeah a lot there so what are you hearing me say what opened up for you there.

Oh no there's a lot of i like a lot of that.

So i.

Would reverse engineer a lot of the world's problems to old men who won't leave really and they're clinging to power and they move to autocracy and then they weaponize young men who have a lack of economic or romantic possibilities the middle class in america which i think is the greatest innovation in history is an accident the natural state of being in our species is that a small number of men through luck inheritance brute strength accrete a disproportionate amount of power and then get a disproportionate amount of the economics and the mating opportunities eighty percent of women have reproduced through modern history only forty percent of men and what happens to the sixty percent of men who can reproduce is that the older men who won't leave weaponize their anger for war or for nationalism right the most unstable violent societies in the world have a disproportionate amount of one thing and that is young men with a lack of romantic or economic opportunities they're very easily weaponized interesting and we're producing way too many of them in the united states so you have and then going back to your experience you've been i think very brave and really helpful to a lot of people men because you've been very open about your own abuse but so two fifteen year olds both abused right both sexually abused a girl and a boy neither crime is any lesser more heinous but the studies i've read is that the boy when he gets older is seven to ten times more likely to engage in self harm than the girl.

Those men don't usually have a forum of sharing you know it's one in six men have been sexually abused one in four women i believe unless i'm reversing the.

Stat but just going back to so what it ends up is that while boys are physically stronger they're emotionally and neurologically much weaker than girls the moment a boy loses a male role model at that moment through death divorce abandonment he becomes more likely to be incarcerated than graduate from college wow what's interesting is that in single parent homes girls have the same outcomes as dual parent homes they're a little bit more promiscuous because they're looking for male attention in the wrong areas same rates of college attendance same income a boy wham so we just have to acknowledge that boys are weaker and we need to create a societal norm where the moment a boy clearly doesn't have a lot of male mentorship in his life even saying the boys needed men was triggering five.

Years ago this they do need the.

Men those this dialogue has gotten so much more productive and it's mostly been led by women who recognize.

Single mothers without a man in the in the home it's they can probably see their young boy struggling they struggle but also.

Men aren't stepping up because in new york and i think the same approximately the same numbers in la there are three times as many women applying to be big sisters as men applying to.

Be big brothers why is that just men more selfish and just don't want to be as generous with mentorship i.

Think naturally they're not as nurturing and two i think there's a taboo that say you're a guy in your thirties and you like the idea of hanging out and helping young boy you could provide paternal and fraternal care you're worried that people are going to suspect you of being a pedophile that's true and it's interesting so when i was on bill maher i said you know we have an obligation to get involved in teens life and bill said oh if i get involved in a fifteen year old boy's life you know no no no and the whole audience laug i'm like that's exactly the problem because there are a lot of men out there that think well one i don't want anyone to be suspicious of me and two i'm not an adolescent psychiatrist i'm not a baller that i i can tell you as someone who mentors young men it is so easy to add.

Value just showing up and playing basketball at the rec club like for an.

Hour you have value yeah no no no you can't survive on pineapple juice and cr creatine you know no you got to spend less time gaming no your mom is not your enemy come on man she's on your side she may not get it right all the time but she's on your side like oh you feel like what did you eat today right are you exercising yeah.

Are you up till four am on.

The day right oh you're really upset you're not going to your prom did you ask anybody did you ask anybody all right well then you're choosing not to go this is your choice right so it's so i have found the easiest job i've ever had was mentoring young men they make so many stupid decisions louis i made a lot of stupid decisions you just start asking them questions why you got a good job you just got a job your mom is sick but you're going to move to alaska why i saw this amazing documentary on alaska i'm like have you ever been why don't we do this why don't you save a little bit of money take a trip there and then decide if you really want to move to alaska from maryland right now is that a good just a couple questions and not only that they will listen to you they don't listen to their mom and what's weird is sometimes or a lot of times a boy who's a teenager will listen more to his dad's friends than to him so i just think we as men need to get involved in a boy's life that's the single point of failure is when a boy loses a male role model and there's a lot of really wonderful men out there who maybe don't have their own families yet have a little bit of spare time and think you know what i'd be pretty good at this and i would enjoy it and it's really easy big brothers there's a ton of mentorship programs but for some reason men aren't stepping up i've.

Got a few final questions for you before we get you out on bill's show here today but what was your relationship like with your father and what was the biggest lesson he taught you that you still apply today.

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Generous question look my dad my dad wasn't very sophisticated he got pulled out of school at the age of thirteen i think he got a lot of validation from attention and affirmation from women and i jokingly say but there's some truth in it that being a handsome man with a scottish accent in seventies california meant that he could not only think with his dick he could listen to it my dad was married and divorced four times wow he started his that we know of he started his third marriage while he was still with my mom so my dad quite frankly was just really had a really tough time with monogamy and that wasn't the worst of it the thing that really strained my relationship with my father is that he was not kind to my mom and when my parents got divorced my.

Dad how old were you then i.

Was nine okay my dad could have made mine and my mother's life much easier with a little bit of money and he didn't and not having your dad around was bad but a mom who was financially insecure and felt emotionally very damaged was just created a household of constant sort of it was like you always had high blood pressure you.

Were wondering fight or flight always yeah.

And she was just very easily upset she was a strong woman but she was dealing with a lot so i resented my father for a long time i used to go for long periods without speaking to him and then the big unlock for me and what i would recommend for anybody the biggest unlock of my life was the following i was constantly keeping score my dad wasn't a very wasn't he was an okay dad not a very good dad but i'm not so i'm not going to be a good son and then what i realized is i would get a lot of joy and reward from having a good relationship with my father so the unlock is the following look at your relationships and rather than having a scorecard put it away and say what kind of partner do i want to be what kind of boss do i want to be what kind of son do i want to be what kind of brother do i want to be and maybe your sister didn't show up when your dad was sick but do i want to be a loving generous brother yeah i do so put away the scorecard and just hold yourself to that standard and i decided about twenty or thirty years ago to put away the resentment of my dad and say i really want to be a loving generous son and i have been for the last twenty or thirty years my father passed about four months ago and my dad mellowed as he got older he got more generous couldn't get off the phone without saying a couple times that he loved me and the first time i heard that when i was forty i'm like wow i'm like dad i don't need that now i could have used it when i was eight but then i leaned into it and so what i would say is the big learning is people are flawed put away the scorecard decide what kind of person you want to be in that relationship and the other big learning was my dad evolved my dad was a better dad to my half sister his daughter by his third marriage than he was to me and that's evolution that's cool he got much more loving and kinder as he got older so and you know i also just little things i've gone entirely the other way my dad was so traumatized by money he was so cheap i've gone the other way i don't go out unless i can pay for everybody not that i do yeah because you know i'm at a point now where all my male friends are trying to show how big their dick is and we're all fighting over the check but but i also am very affectionate with my boys my father wasn't very affectionate with me i decided i'm taking affection back you know i kissed my boys on the lips which they stopped doing when i was fifteen but my best friend lee his father was this guy lee lotus sr who was this the guy looked like burt reynolds and when he'd come pick up lee at college ucla he'd walk in to the fraternity or to lee's apartment and he'd roll up this big handsome guy and lee was a big handsome guy and they'd kiss and it just seemed so natural italians yeah just real quick i guess and i'm like wow i like to feel like whoa and i remember thinking if burt reynolds can kiss his kid his son so can i so i'm really one thing i got going the other way was i got a lot of affection i decided to be very affectionate with my boys and two that's cool i make my living like you telling stories and a lot of that is not my.

Fault i got a lot of that.

Dna from my father my father can hold a room like nobody and so there's no reason not to be grateful like you're big and huge and good looking like there's no reason not to be grateful to your parents even though they didn't go out of their way to give it to you they did and so there's no reason not to be grateful like god i got this skill from my father you're alive because of him there you go you're here you want to be here life helps but the big unlock for me was put away the scorecard just be the man in the relationship you want to be and hold yourself to that standard.

Is there anything you wish you would have said or he would have said or any interactions you wish you would.

Have had with your father no the nice thing about my relationship with my father my father lived to be ninety five nothing went unsaid that's beautiful we were very emotional with each other very emotive he was constantly couldn't stop telling me how proud he was of me that's nice yeah it was really nice.

It may have been a rough childhood see you know go with different women and abandon your mom in that way.

Were your parents together or were they.

Divorced they were together they got divorced when i was a teenager so but they were they never showed each other love so they were there they showed us kids love i was the youngest of four but they were constantly fighting and it was very emotionally it didn't feel safe at home i left home at thirteen i begged them to send me away to a boarding school they didn't want me to leave right you want my brother just got out of prison from four years it was very traumatic going to a visiting room of a prison every weekend i didn't have any friends for four years because you're in a small town in ohio everyone knew in the neighborhood that my brother had been to prison so the parents wouldn't let their kids hang out with me yeah my parents were financially struggling stressed they weren't showing you know affection or love it was just anger it was sadness that's rough so we had a home it's not like i was homeless i was going to school but it was like it was just not emotionally safe feeling i didn't feel physically like i was an under harm but emotionally it just didn't feel safe yeah look they were doing their best you know it's like they only had the.

Tools they had so yeah and it's good at some point you just forgive them right if they tried i think the box every parent needs to check is to be a better dad or mom to you than your father your mother was to you and my dad checked that box and you know there's a lot you know that i took from that relationship and also when your parents get divorced as mine did you have a tendency to sanctify once and demonize the other you have a tendency to go one was wrong one was right and what you realize is neither is perfect but the reality is louis is in my dad and was a different age my dad kind of left it when i was nine he moved to ohio i didn't see him a lot and that was not ideal fortunately i had a lot of men i'm doing this live thing tonight downtown in la and i've invited two of my mentor two men who got involved in my life randomly when i was a kid and i reached out to them they're in their seventies and eighties and said will you come to this thing tonight that's cool you know one was a stockbroker i i my mom's boyfriend gave me two hundred bucks and said go to one of those fancy i started asking about stocks and he said here's two hundred dollars going to those fancy brokerages in westwood and i walked him with two hundred dollars at the age of thirteen like what do i do into dean witter and i said hi i have dollar two hundred and they said wait here and this guy with this jufro came out named cyro and he goes i'm cyro and he took me back to his cubicle and he gave me my first lesson in the stock market and he said when there's more buyers and sellers the sellers raise the price until there's fewer buyers he gave me a first lesson and then i came back the next day and he said all right let's look at some stocks he's like what are you interested in i'm like well i love the movies and close encounters of the third kind had just come out and he said okay columbia pictures is the company that made it it's a stock we bought sixteen shares of columbia pictures for like twelve bucks a pop and every day for two years i used to go into the pay phone booth at emerson put in my two dimes and call to check in on my stocks and once or twice a week i'd go into the dean witter reynolds office in westwood and he'd give me another lesson on stocks and he used to call my mom and he wasn't trying to sell her we had no money and he would just say nice things about me to my mom i used to hang out with this guy at his office for a couple years until i went to high school and this is a flex but i'll make it i've made a lot of money starting and selling companies i've made tens of millions of dollars investing in stocks i've been investing in stocks since i was thirteen because of sizera wow so in addition to giving me like some confidence that this nice impressive man liked me you know it taught me this incredible life skill around investing so.

Is he coming tonight is he coming.

Tonight yeah he's coming tonight that's cool yeah first time i've seen him in forty five years no way yeah we stay in contact over text we haven't seen him i don't see him in.

Forty five years that's incredible you're gonna.

See him tonight yeah that is cool.

Send me a photo of it but.

I was really lucky i had i had this this guy and his girlfriend noticed that my mom and i you know it was just my mom and i one day knocked on our door and he said does your son want to come horseback riding with us and he and his girlfriend used to take me to horseback ride and just having men in your life that can give you a little bit of advice and not only that just give you the sense you have value i think is huge but anyways back to it sounds like when did your dad pass three years ago yeah yeah so look i think as you get older you try and focus on the good things you try and forgive your dad and whatever you think he got wrong you try and course correct around for your own boy so i think that's the basis of trying to be more human evolve but the one thing the one thing i would i mean i've had five one things but the thing i really took away from my father his real flaw that quite frankly was not great for me and took some time to repair i think the best thing you can do for boys is just treat their mother really well they just see it i really go out of my way i take some real arrows from my wife sometimes in front of the boys i really try to demonstrate emotion and affection around her i defer to her judgment in front of the boys i just try to make sure the boys know that their mother is really valuable and they see it by the way i treat her and i think that's gonna create much more healthy relationships for them i think that's the best thing you can do for your boys is just treat your even if you're divorced just be really good to the mother because my dad wasn't and i think it really quite frankly damaged my relationship probably with women or maybe maybe i'm just like a lot of people looking for trauma from my parents and i'm just a selfish person but i think i could have been kinder to women when i was a young man i don't think my dad was a.

Great role model for that you mentioned earlier and we got to wrap it up here in a few minutes for you but you mentioned earlier that your dad used to watch bill bill maher.

All the time favorite show favorite show.

And you're gonna go on there here in a couple hours you know right down the street and you said every time you go on there you get a little nervous but also excited because you feel like he's watching i almost.

Get a panic attack every i do a lot of tv i do a lot of speaking in front of you know inflexing thousands of people i freaked the out on that show louis because i think my dad's watching wow and my dad watched premier league football and.

Bill maher that's it what is the message you know you're about to go in there so i'm going to ground you for a moment what's the message that you really want to make sure you land no matter where bill takes you all over the place what would you really like to land that if your dad's watching you feel like will be really special that you get to.

Share a specific message well the message i would want if i could wrap my arms around all young men and just give them a mission and just trust me on this trust me search your feelings you know this to be true it would be really try to resist the temptation to live your life on a screen with an algorithm and that at the end of your life or even in your twenties and thirties the anxiety and loneliness you're going to feel without establishing relationships and taking those risks is going to be so much greater than any fear you might have around what lays beyond that room and that is there is an enormous correlation between the amount of the ratio of time you spend in the presence of other people versus the time you spend on a screen i don't think we've really come to grips with the fact that young men are up against an indomitable foe a big tech that literally makes billions for every additional minute they can get you on your phone and away from friends mentors and mates get out of the house take risks express friendship express romantic relationship apply for jobs you're not qualified for you know take as many shots as you can but get for god's sakes get out of.

The house yeah get out notes on being a man number one new york times bestseller make sure you guys grab a copy right now follow you on all of your podcasts you're all over the place but you've got podcasts on money on everything life politics all these different places what's the best place to.

Follow you specifically i'm like aol in the nineties i'm you put your hand into a cereal box you're gonna grab me so to resist is futile i am overexposed at this point i have as you mentioned i have podcasts i have a newsletter called no mercy no malice prof galloway dot com you'll see if you're interested a ton of ways to get my content awesome this is.

An awesome book and you've got a great show and great content i want to acknowledge you scott for taking on this subject because i know it's not easy and there's a lot of pushback on talking about vulnerability and masculinity and all these things i felt it for years when i started to open up about this stuff so i acknowledge you for doing it because i think we're even more at risk now than we were seven eight years ago with younger boys not having the tools to be out in the world to develop relationships to look other people in the eye and just have a conversation let alone build a relationship and so i acknowledge you for speaking up for taking on the criticism you take for sharing these things as well because we need more great male leaders sharing this information so younger men can be inspired and hopefully take action and i hope everyone gets a copy of this book and gives it to a young man in their life as well or an old man who needs some lessons and learning as well i asked you these two questions before i'm just going to ask one of them i asked you before the definition of greatness so i'll have people go back and watch that from our previous episode but this is a question i asked you as well called the three truths after writing this book now and being at this stage of life where your father has recently passed what would you say are three things you would leave behind if this was the last day on earth for you many years away and we would not have access to any of your content but you got to leave behind three lessons to the world what would those three lessons be that you would leave behind.

Well it's sort of an indirect way of answering but i think of the tombstone test what three words would you want in your tombstone i'd want to be known as a generous person who created more value than i absorbed that's the whole point like if you leave the world having provided more love more economic opportunity noticing people more than maybe you absorb through your life that's the whole point you once i'd want to be known as generous i'd want to be known as patriotic you know smartest thing i ever did louis was to be born in america i want to reinvest in america and help make sure that many of the amazing things that help me state sponsored education pell grants i got assisted lunch much you know america loved unremarkable people when i was growing up and i worry it's falling out of love with the unremarkable so i would like to be hopefully seen as someone who's patriotic and then the final thing i just want to be seen as you know a dad i was that i was really into my sons and that it was clear that later in life i saw my purpose as raising patriotic loving men that that was you know so generous patriotic dad that's what i aspire to i still.

Got some work to do thanks brother.

Congratulations on everything thank you brother appreciate.

It man i have a brand new book called make money easy and if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life but you want to make it easier you want to make it flow you want to feel abundant then make sure to go to make money easy book right now and get yourself a copy i really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward i hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with with me personally as well as ad free listening then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on apple podcasts share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on apple podcasts as well let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review i really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can.

Support and serve you moving forward and.

I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you you are loved you are worthy and you matter and now it's time to go out there and do something great.

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