Why Most Relationships FAIL & How to Build Successful Communication Skills w/Dr. Siri Sat Nam Singh EP 1143

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How did they go wrong? They're so professional. I think it wasn't anger, it was hurt.

Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Therapist David Richo once said, our wounds are often the openings into the best and most beautiful parts of us. And Gabor Mate said, the attempt to escape from pain is what creates more pain. My guest today is Dr. Siri Satnam Singh. He is a licensed marriage therapist with a BA in psychology, an MA in clinical psychology, and a PhD in depth psychology. And Dr. Siri was featured in the Viceland network production, the Therapist, where he conducted therapy with celebrity musicians such as Katy Perry, Walka Flaka, and many more. In his latest book, the Pocket Guru was recently awarded the 2020 Walden Award for Excellence in Mind Body Healing. And throughout this interview, I read passages from it to gain more clarity on the steps and techniques we can all use to deal with feelings, pain and forgiveness. And at the very beginning of this episode, what yout're About to Experience is an interaction with myself and Dr. Siri, where we both had a breakdown. There was a misunderstanding on my part and our part on greatness media. For the first time ever, we booked two guests at the same time. And Dr. Siri waited in our building for a couple of hours before we were able to get his interview started. And as we began the interview, he wanted to share his feelings about the situation and what your good experience is both of us navigating through an uncomfortable conversation for the first part of this interview. Before we get into the topic of relationships, I think this first part will be extremely helpful for you to witness, listen to, and experience for yourself to see how to navigate when you're feeling like you made a mistake or there was a misunderstanding or a breakdown on how you can handle it, and also how to share and express your feelings in an authentic way when you feel like someone else has created a breakdown with you. So I hope you enjoy this first part of this uncomfortable conversation. And in this episode, we discuss the biggest problems that cause most relationships to fail, the actions you can take to promote healthier relationships in your life, advice that Dr. Siri shares for people who think about getting married, why we should change the narrative around relationships that don't work, the steps to dealing with conflict and arriving at Forgiveness, which was what I was trying to create the entire episode. That and so much more. And if you're enjoying this, make sure to share this with someone that you think would need to hear it. Just copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this, or you can use the link lewishouse.com/1143. And if this is your first time here, then welcome to the School of Greatness. Click the subscribe button right now. Let me know what your thoughts are about this episode over on the review section on Apple Podcast.

And in just a few moments, the.

One and only Dr. Siri Sat Nam Singh. I can completely understand feeling disrespected at your level.

Yes.

Because I have experienced that in different settings on stages or in events or going to a place and showing up and them being an hour late. Yeah. And me being like, why am I here? So I completely understand. Yeah. And again, not my intention.

I know.

And I apologize for you. for creating that for you to think.

How did they go wrong? So professional.

I don't think we've ever double booked, but I think it's all perfect. I think it's to have this conversation.

I think so.

I think it's been, I think this conversation brings up something for both of us that makes our connection unique by meeting each other. Not a perfect introduction to one another. We both probably needed to meet each other this way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, again, I'm coming from a place of gratitude of you expressing yourself as opposed to holding some res, maybe you're still feeling resentment, but holding on to.

Some type of resentment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. While doing this. I've already lived older, more, longer than anyone on my mother's side. Right. So I don't, I mean one thing in working with, I think that the session on anger may be very good that you can look at. Look at that section on anger, the statements. And that's where I stand with that. It's like, you know. I know you have a good part.

About forgiveness in here, too. Where's the forgiveness wand? We're gonna work on forgiveness today.

No, we're gonna go anger, then I will forgive you.

Okay. Okay, anger. Anger is an unsettling feeling.

Okay.

It sounds like you were having an unsettling feeling for hours.

Yes.

Waiting.

Okay.

Feeling disrespect. Anger stems from an unexpressed hurt.

Okay.

And so you're expressing this hurt.

I'm saying my hurt.

Anger is telling me to respect my hurt.

Uh-huh. And what, okay. Respect your hurt. I respect your hurt.

You're communicating your hurt. Okay. Yes. Anger held in can hurt and negatively impact your own personal life.

Okay. That means I go out of here feeling like a piece of cow dung.

Anger must be acknowledged and anger acknowledged and effectively expressed says I am emotionally intelligent.

Okay.

And I love it that it's all effectively expressed, because ineffectively expressed causes what?

Not even there. Not even there. This is called the pocket guru. It's to elevate.

But what does ineffective expression of anger do in relationships in general?

Well, we know what that does.

That.

Doesn'T ring harmony. No one grows. No one grows. It's usually a moment of not resolution. I mean now we're going forward. Disconnection, you know, fire is the anger. It's nothing but the fire element. It transforms. We have a transformative moment here. I haven't even used the word ineffective in years. It never came by consciousness until you said it. Right.

Well, because you have effectively expressed here.

So I see it's no ineffective. Ineffective It's not even in my consciousness.

But it sounds like you work with a lot of people that use ineffective expression in their emotions, in their relationships, in their life, and it causes a lot of pain and upset for them.

It's so interesting. I'm humanistic in my modality, and so what's it like? Like darkness, I always, I don't pathologize darkness, like ineffective darkness. I sit with it and turn the cow dung into chocolate. So I don't even see cow dung. I do, but it's transformed into chocolate. So I don't see that as something that stinks up night. Like yes it does, but it's like fertilizer.

Yeah.

Okay.

Manure is actually, I don't like.

Go to the negative stuff. I don't. Live there as soon as I transform it. That's beautiful. Yeah.

And then we go in from anger to forgiveness.

Are we there yet? Let's say we're there.

Anger to forgiveness.

We may need one more thing.

Maybe tomorrow when you can think about that.

What's the feelings? Let's go to feelings.

I like this.

Feelings. Feelings. Feelings.

My feelings are real.

Okay.

What does it mean to be real? What is a feeling? who you are or a moment that is real. So if I feel anger, does that mean I am an angry person or is it just a feeling that comes and goes? But it's not me.

No, it is you. Feelings are real. What does that mean? There's a spiritual arena, there's the emotional arena, there's the physical arena, there's the mental arena. Feelings are emotional arena. We have to sit into that arena so your feelings are real. If you're angry, you're angry.

But does that mean that's who you are?

And this telling me how I am.

In this moment.

In this moment.

Does it mean this is who I am?

Who I am is a vast, you know, that's a big picture. Who I am is a configuration of my ethnicity, my education, my relationship, all of that. who I am, I'm spiritual, but feelings and the majority of the people that come to me have the greatest work to do in that arena because they want to, in our society, we devalue feelings.

What do we say in general about feelings?

Most people don't even acknowledge them. Most people don't even know what they're feeling.

They just suppress them or they ignore.

Them or they numb.

And so my feelings are real.

Acknowledging them is key. is key.

Is it acknowledging it to yourself or saying to everyone around you, this is how I feel?

Well, it's acknowledging to yourself, then what do I do with it? Let's see, you know, anger, I could have done a lot of things. I could have left.

Why did you stay?

Because I have to, I wanted to sit into what is it to be mentally healthy? I knew it was not an intentional mistake. And I like moments like this because I don't run away from them. Because it affirms, it's an opportunity for me to affirm that I am who I say I am or they say that I am. I'm a man of higher consciousness.

So we're gonna be constantly tested if we say these are the things we do. So the universe is bringing you tests to make sure.

It's like, okay, so here you are. And if I don't handle this correctly, then I'm not a man of elevated consciousness. Yeah, because I did not, I have seemingly, you know, elevating myself as well as you.

Yeah, see. My feelings are not always comfortable.

Okay.

But all of them are good.

Okay. You get the dose of new ideas.

Absolutely, I like it. My feelings are uncomfortable when my head and heart are in conflict.

I see. Ma, ma, that. would have been, that's what I couldn't live with. Say for instance, I'm hurt by what you did. That's the real feeling hurt. And if I don't express the hurt, it turns into anger. Yes. And then it turns into what?

Resentment or it turns into- Probably.

Yeah, resentment.

Pain in your soul.

And then I'm going to- you-'re causing pain in your soul. Then I'm putting myself at risk of cancer.

Right.

Hurt, anger, resentment. I'm going to live with it. I went to that that podcast and I didn't do it and I wondered what would have happened if I would have done it and he stood me up. All of that would have been there. All of that that I wouldn't have resolved. I had to go to therapy and resolve it with somebody else. I'm resolving it with you. So that would have been, you know, my heart is feeling this with my head, can't own it, I can't sit with that. So I'm gonna leave.

So wait, your, which, say it again, your heart?

See, my heart was hurt. But your head, my head is like saying, I'm not gonna deal with it.

I'll just let it go or move on.

I'm gonna leave. I wouldn't have dealt, see, if I would have left, I wouldn't have dealt with this. I would have carried all of this with me.

That's not fun.

And never want to see your picture again.

Screw this guy. This guy's a piece of crap.

Louis who, oh please.

This guy's a piece of crap. Never, I was talking about him, I'll be behind my back forever.

You know, I resent it because I wouldn't have dealt with my- Right. See, but they're together. My head, my heart, I was hurt and the head says, acknowledge that and effectively express that.

Absolutely, I love that. My feelings are never wrong. My head must intelligently guide me as to what to do, creating no harm to myself or to others.

Okay, I'm walking my talk.

Yeah. Which goes back to the word you don't like to use, ineffective expression. Because if you express something to other someone else in a harmful way based on feelings that wouldn't be a good use of transforming your emotions and feelings into the betterment of the moment, right? So it's how do you transform something where it feels not good or disrespectful or whatever yucky in some way? How do I transform it into a better moment?

It's practice. Yeah.

And you want But what if someone isn't receptive to listening to when you're feeling hurt or angry? What if a friend, me, a partner, married couple, parent, and they're just dismissing your feelings and emotions? Are you still able to transform your anger or hurt or sadness into something good if the witness is not witnessing it?

Well, that's where, you know, how elevated and sensitive and intuitive and deep am I? I'm talking to you. If I was talking to a child, I'd talk differently. If I'm talking to an 80-year-old woman who maybe lives in their lair and has never seen a black person, maybe I talk to her differently. So that's my sensitivity to know how to say it and who I'm sitting in front of.

Not everyone is as conscious as you to understand how to say it to people.

They can be as unconscious, I think you unconscious, as unconscious as they want to be. But if I'm conscious, then I bring your unconsciousness to consciousness, which I think I have. You can be as crazy as you want to be. I work in mental health. That's my field. So I have to be able to be mentally healthy to bring you to a state of mental health. -Absolutely. -That's why I've had five therapists. I'm in therapy right now. -Me too. -Yeah.

I'm always working on myself.

-Absolutely.

-Absolutely. -My feelings must be supported by my.

Head so that I am at one.

-Yes. -My feelings are the fuel that propel my growth. -My growth. -My feelings give me a deep understanding of myself in the moment. -That's right. what was the understanding of the incredible anger you felt in the moment with me?

It wasn't anger was hurt. I hadn't gotten to anger yet.

Oh gosh.

I was like- you- got an anger.

When you came into here.

Yeah, I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what I was gonna do with it 'cause my manager, she's very nice, the whole thing. And you know, she, and we weren't, you know, there was no plot, there was no plan. Right. I didn't know. I'm just present. I make a living on being present. I can usually spot things. Like I worked at an agency once, a social service agency in the black community, a doctor. And as soon as I walked into the agency, I saw this woman, a supervisor, I said, oh my God. There's Judas over in the corner. First time I looked at her. And I got all the difficult clients. All the difficult clients. I'm the only licensed black therapist among these therapists. And four years later, they lost that contract. And so they could only keep one contract therapist. And so that same lady I saw four years ago came up with a trumped up charge on me so that her crony could keep the job and they could get rid of me. And then one of the other therapists says, Siri, we all do that. I said, so now you see it. But that's my sensitivity. First time I saw her, I went, oh, God, she's not fooling me. She's a fake, a phony, a fraud, and a dick walking lie. And I saw it. It's that third eye, you know, I got, everybody got three eyes. I use mine. Yeah, yeah, I use mine.

My feelings when acknowledged and expressed show I am respecting myself.

That's right.

You're not abandoning yourself.

No.

Because you would be abandoning yourself and probably be out of integrity with yourself if you didn't effectively express them.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Or process them in a way that's effective for you.

Yes, what's intended for me will not come. I won't feel good about myself. I won't be able to feel others.

My feelings, when consistently acknowledged, allow me to feel others' feelings.

That's right. Because I'm developing that arena. I'm developing that emotional arena. So I don't run from I'm feeling hurt, I'm angry, I'm disgusted, I'm disappointed, I'm scared. So once it's just like practicing on the track. You know, you practice, you practice, you practice, you practice, you get good at it. When you stay in that arena and don't run from your feelings and your emotions, you get good at it. And then you can feel the room.

Absolutely.

You can feel the other.

My feelings should always be effectively expressed. I'm seeing the pattern here and my feelings When effectively expressed, bring fulfillment.

Okay.

Do you feel fulfillment yet?

We almost say we made one more before we get to forgiveness.

Yep.

Let's see what else we got. Anger, we got feelings.

Pain hurts. Okay. Whether it is physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual.

Okay, isn't that interesting? All those four arenas.

Pain felt is pain recognized. Okay. So when you feel your own pain or when someone else feels the pain.

No, you got to feel your pain.

When you feel your own pain, then it's recognized.

It's recognized.

And when it's recognized, then what?

Then you have to, what is it trying to tell me?

It's teaching me something.

You got to sit in it and go and communicate with it. It's like if it's physical pain, you know, that's no fun. I've had physical pain. And, you know, is there a way to get out of it? We want to get out of it. Is there a way to get out of this thing? like I had a little skin rash on my elbow. And I was doing my meditation, and I was like, oh, this doesn't feel good. It's stinging. And so I went to the doctor, right? And he said, oh, you had dermatitis or something. Gave me a little pill. I took it. One day, it's gone. So that's physical. Sometimes we can't get out of the physical pain, though. But in terms of Spirit, I see that in the arena in which I work, none of us get on a spiritual path until we've wrought into pain.

Interesting, so until we feel some type of pain, hurt, breakdown, something.

Usually people don't go to therapy. They don't go like, oh God, you know what I mean? When nothing else can help.

Why does it seem to take some type of extreme pain or loss in order for us to start going down that path.

Isn't that sad?

Why can't we just start going down the path when things are good?

Yes, yes, yes. Because there's seemingly a forgetfulness that we come from the unknown and that we're going to go back to the unknown. We seem to have a forgetfulness that we're still in always relationship to the unknown while we're on the planet. we forget that we come from that vast and go back to that vastness. But here we get into the limitation and we forget this is a spiritual journey.

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This is a journey of the soul. It's not a journey of the dollar, of the fame, of the fortune, of the body, of the lover, of the honey. It's the journey of the soul. Right. And that's the, that's really where I sit. That's really where I live. That, you know, every experience I have, What does this have to do with my soul's journey? So there's pain. Often people have soul pain. Right. You know, they can't come into relationship with who am I on the planet? What is my path? What's my purpose? That's soul pain. That's really hurtful. There's emotional pain, you know, hurt, sadness, disappointment. And there's mental pain of where often we have these horrible thoughts that we can't get out of, and they torture us, haunting thoughts, worrying. So pain is pain, okay?

And it's not what I want to feel. Pain is not what we want to.

Feel in any of those arenas. So how do I get out of it? Is the word.

Yeah. pain reminds me to remember to be conscious so I can avoid pain in the future.

Yeah, that's the.

That.

What are you talking about? Why do we.

Yes.

You know, we often cause reset. Yeah.

Pain directs me to ask the question, what can I do?

Okay.

What can I do differently or how can I evolve?

Yes. Yes.

What decisions do I make differently?

Yes. Yes.

Pain inspires me to engage in a conversation to discover its cause. Pain forces me to change my way of being in the world so that I can be pain free. I think that's a powerful one for me. Forces me to change my way of being in the world so I can be pain free.

Yes.

Do you feel like a lot of pain or attachment to pain or suffering is based on our way of being and staying that way of being and not shifting?

It's not looking at the pain. You know, some people just get used to the pain.

-It'S not looking at the pain.

-You know, like, for example, I've had periods where I had no money. That's no fun.

No.

Not having any money.

Sucks.

But you know, how do I get here? How do I get out of it? How did I put myself here?

Or.

Relationships, you know, what to do when you're having a pain with a loving, intimate relationship? Do I just sit with it and not acknowledge it and not express it, then I stay there. My relationship won't work. What do I do with my racing thoughts? How can I stop these haunting thoughts? Physical pain. Now, and we all one day will die, but physical pain, when symptom comes into the body, like if it's your arm, it's your You know, diagnoses, like I, you know, deal with diagnosis, the medical doctor gives a diagnosis, and sometimes they don't even have a physical diagnosis for what's happening in the in the body. But the symptom is in the thyroid or this or the that. And I've had a lot of clients come to me to where they say the doctor said there's nothing wrong with me. It's emotional. And then we have to look at Where is the mental, spiritual, emotional imbalance that has created the physical imbalance that now is causing me pain? And usually when it gets to a plane of pain, we've been holding that a while.

Yeah, and we gotta learn how to transform it.

Yes, we do.

Into healing. Pain is a catalyst for transformation, so hopefully we can transform it sooner than like, decades of holding on to it.

Yeah.

When it's too late or it's caused cancer or something.

Yeah.

Pain moves me to change and expand and pain is asking for my attention. Yes, absolutely. I'm curious in the work you've done with married couples and relationships. I'm assuming they're working with you because there's some type of breakdown or pain that someone is feeling or both.

I always say nobody comes to me for a party. I'm not a party list.

You know what's interesting? In my last relationship, before I started, in between the previous relationship and the last relationship, I said to myself, you know what? I wonder what it'd be like to start therapy within like the first three months of dating. When things are really good.

Okay.

To just continue to gain clarity on alignment and values and vision. And I was like, this would be amazing.

And then I didn't do it.

Okay.

And it didn't work.

It didn't work out. Okay. And now I'm like, I am committed in the next relationship to being in.

Some type of therapeutic process in the beginning.

If they're willing. Absolutely.

Yeah.

But I think the level of consciousness that I bring into the relationship will attract someone who wants that same level of consciousness. And so I think it'd be looking for someone at that level. Who's like, yeah, I'm down for that.

What about, I always think of a date, you know, it has a pit inside of it. What about if you keep dating until you find the pit? If you find the pit, then maybe that's the time to go to therapy.

So don't do it before you find the pit.

Until you find the pit.

Okay. So no need.

I don't think so.

Okay.

You know, unless you find the pit and you want to go forward.

Okay, and dress that. Gotcha.

And see we can get the sweetness out of this. Mm.

I like that. Okay. It's good. But pain is asking for our attention.

Yes.

And when we feel pain, we should notice it and not mask it.

Exactly.

I wrote a book called the Mask of Masculinity, which is about the mask that men wear.

Yeah.

To fit in, to project a certain image to the world, to hide and numb the pain.

Yes.

To project that they're stronger, more intelligent, funnier, sexier, not sure, everything as I went through my own journey and will continue to go through my own journey of unmasking whatever that's holding me back from true authentic power, true authentic connection, intimacy, love, mission, and shedding of the ego constantly to be more authentic. But I think I experienced Internal pain and suffering for many, many years because I was unwilling to address it. It kept seeking my attention and I was masking it as opposed to speaking into the shame, sharing the shame, the process of healing the shame. And therefore it caused more and more stress, more and more anger and resentment in the external world, more and more need for competition as opposed to collaboration. Yeah. And things really started to shift when I was like, wow, when I talk about these things and open up and share the shame, the hurt, the pain, and I can process them and integrate it in my life into a healing process, man, I can sleep at night finally. I'm less triggered when someone's whatever with me. And it's been an incredible journey in the last eight and a half years since starting this process.

Yes.

That's why I'm a big fan of therapy. Or any type of therapeutic experience where emotional intelligence exercises to support healing of the past.

From the 2019 census, they came to understand that psychotherapies that just try to make people feel good or to blame others are not effective in a long-term basis. that they were really, the first time I've seen this in a while, and it was also in the Journal of British Psychology, that psychologies that work on the unconscious, to go at where people bring stuff to therapy they don't want to face, they don't want to acknowledge, and to give that to the therapist and work that out goes more is more effective on the long-term basis. You know, I know cognitive behavioral therapy works in that arena, but it was really sort of acknowledging the power and the effectiveness of psychodynamic therapy. Interesting. The unconscious. That's what I find is what we don't know about ourselves or what we want to keep hidden. That causes the problems.

What do you feel like is it you still don't know about yourself after this many years of practice, work, integration, research?

What I don't know about myself. Well, you know, the thing is, I can't see myself. So that's why I continue to go to someone in therapy that can see me. So what I don't know, I don't know.

What was a recent thing that you discovered from someone a therapy uncovering it for you that you didn't know, whether it was recently or in the last few years was the most recent thing that you didn't know that now you know.

I work with a coach and he's very good. I work with a coach and a therapist and one thing he continues to highlight in our sessions is that I don't have to work so hard to go get things that whenever I say, I wanna It never comes. And I'm very much an Eastern, I work on the Eastern way, where things come to me. I work on myself, I try to cleanse my subconscious, I enhance my magnetic field, and so my thoughts are here, they go in my magnetic field, and then what I want or desire comes, rather than being the Western way, going and getting it.

I'm chasing.

So whenever I go for something, it usually- Doesn't work out. Doesn't work out. So that is what I've come to really learn from this coach. And it's very- For most of your.

Life, were you kind of in the other aspect where you're kind of going after stuff or chasing or- well, I.

Think I was more active. You know, more active and yeah. But I mean it was just an insight. that, you know, we think that, you know, and that doesn't mean I don't set goals. I have goals, but the approach is different. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

That's interesting. That's a good insight.

It is.

When did you, when did he discover that within you?

Well, that's sort of a running thread throughout our, our therapy.

Gotcha.

Okay. And one thing that I love that I utilize also in my psychotherapy are metaphors. I love deepening an individual into their experience and to hopefully accurately reflect them by amplifying a metaphor, you know. And if you get a good, the correct metaphor, it's so insightful.

Very.

You know, yeah, yeah.

It activates something, connects.

And he gives me metaphors a lot. He says, well, you know, where you think you are in your life, right now, you know?

That's cool. Very cool. Well, we're at forgiving.

Are we?

We're at forgiving.

I think we need one more on this. You can't rush forgiveness.

Is that one of the mantras in here?

You can't rush, you forget.

Maybe we come to forgiveness at the end of the episode.

That is it, where we get to forgiveness.

Let's get to the end of the episode. That's the end of the episode. And see if we can so let's see. You have done a lot of incredible work with couples, married couples specifically. And I'm curious from all of your years of experience working with people in intimate, committed relationships, what is the main or the biggest problem that's causing them to fail that you've seen? Is there a common theme of like the main reason that causes them to fail?

Yeah, I've just come to this realization. I really haven't. Actually, I came across something the other day that sort of, wow, I'm not the only one that sees that. That there's masculine and feminine principle. There's male gender, female gender, we have non-binary now, and there's sexual orientation. So those are three different arenas. I've come to understand that the feminine principle must be most operative in a relationship because feminine principle is relationship. Masculine principle is not relationship. Masculine principle is independence. Yeah. Yes. So feminine principle must be operative. What does that mean? Sensitivity. That means nurturing. That means feelings. That means, you know, emotional balance. Masculine principle doesn't make a relationship or sustain it. It helps by directing. Masculine principle is directing. Yes, you know, we, honey, we're going.

To- We're doing this, here's where we're going.

We're going here. Stability, you know, here's the money. We make money these days, too, though. You know, here's the money, you know, here's the, you know.

It's the plan.

It's stability. It's the plan. Here's what we're doing.

But feminine principle sustains it. Interesting. So when you have a, a, a, someone who's a dominant masculine energy, whether male or female, but as someone who's a dominant masculine energy and they're driven and led by that, How do you sustain it if they are in their masculine most of the time and don't tap into the feminine? How do you sustain it?

Then the feminine principle has to be very strong. But the deal is if man or woman, whoever is embodying the masculine principle, that's all they are. And the other one is embodying just feminine principle, that's called divorce. Really?

So if they're The polarizing opposites are not able to shift.

They attract, but what happens if the masculine and feminine they attract, whether it's non-binary, gay, lesbian, whatever, those principles are still there operating, you know, whether they integrate, and that's the goal. And so what I'm getting at is that both genders, both individuals, have to embody both principles.

How does each, if they're so focused on the one masculine or feminine energy as their primary, say 80-90% of the time, how do they tap into the emotional range of the other?

It's a matter of focus. It's a matter of understanding if this principle is actually correct to understand if you are man and and this is all woman that's divorced. Why? Because all masculine principle cannot sense the feminine principle inside, so they can't understand the feminine principle outside.

I feel like you have to be such an evolved human being to be able to know when it's happened to the masculine energy and know when it's happened to feminine energy.

Right?

It's like you have to be so evolved and working on yourself.

What about conscious?

Conscious.

Conscious.

Conscious to your actions, your thoughts, your beliefs, your decisions, how this all affects you, how it affects others, how it affects the universe.

Yes, yes, yes.

That's hard to do for people, isn't it? Or am I making assumptions?

You said life is easy. Right. Okay. I mean, that's why we have divorce. Maybe because this is not understood. Maybe because men are We're raised to be, you know, hard and all man. I call this all man, but half human.

All man, half human. What makes whole human?

Masculine and feminine integrated. Masculine and feminine integrated. Sometimes the woman, if it's heterosexual relations like that, the woman is in masculine principles. Then the man has the or the lady, whoever, in feminine principle.

I'm going to ask a question that might rub people the wrong way, but do you see relationships and marriages that are healthy, happy, and whole, where the woman is in the masculine a majority of the time?

Okay, I never forget in training to become a licensed therapist, we were taught that that is not a dysfunctional relationship. There are some women that sit more in the masculine principle, and some men sit more in feminine principle. That's a match.

It's a match.

It's a match. There's some women who want to go out and work and the man stays home and takes care of the children. That's a match. Really? Yes.

Do you think women fully respect a man that they're partnered with if they are not more in their masculine?

Now you've brought up a point. Sometimes they do care about why they're not making money.

They just want to sit at home. They're not, they don't have a purpose in their life.

Yes, I have had relationships like that where the woman is the money maker. She's out in the world. At the same time, she doesn't want to stay home.

Right, but does she want the man to stay home too?

But at the same time, she's feminine gender, female gender. And then when she gets into that, she wants to have that telescope and go, oh, there's my man. Now, when that happens, they come to me in therapy because then I have to, you know, just bring that up for them to digest and cogitate and look at because, you know, she has to shift her cognitive schema because that's not the configuration that's working for them. That's not the cultural narrative.

Right.

That's not the cultural narrative.

Interesting. So have you seen where women fully respect their male partner if they aren't as driven or mission driven and embodying more of those masculine qualities?

They have come in disrespecting their man, but we have had effective therapy and they're still together. They make all the woman makes all the money and the man takes care of the children.

Are they happy? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Are they sexually connected too? Yeah.

Really?

Okay, so it is possible. Okay. It just might be a little harder as we hear.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, a little harder, but it's possible.

They gotta get the right mate for that.

Right, right.

It's so interesting. We're in the Aquarian age, the stage. And the Aquarian Age is being typified by new age relationships. You know, like my godchildren, they both have very committed relationships with their girlfriends. They're not thinking about getting married. Right.

But they're committed.

Yes. The mother said, you know, and they got a house together now. They just bought a house. They're getting their both names on the deed. They have no concept of getting married.

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Fidelity Brokerage Services member NYSCSI PC. You know, there are couples that have children together, not married, living together, committed, They're gay marriages, they're polyamorous relationships where it's like your partner can be with whomever they want to and they can be with whomever they want to and they come together. They're all these new age relationships, my generation of parents. There was the heterosexual model, marrying and--.

And everything else is wrong.

Everything else is wrong. Happy or unhappy, They did not divorce. Happy or unhappy, they did not divorce.

Do you think people should stay married if they're suffering inside after, even if they've done the work on therapy and they realize they don't want to be together, do you think they should try to just make it work still if they're not happy?

Well, you know, often couples come to me with that. They've been together for years and the children are grown and out of the house and now they're just looking at each other Miserable.

Do we like each other?

We don't like each other.

We don't want to be around each other.

And you know, so it's putting, it's helping them to understand where they are and how they got here and what do we do with this. Maybe there's an option they never considered that we can still be friends. and sever this, a conscious, unconscious, this legal relationship. Maybe we can still be friends. Maybe we can be thankful for each other the time we've had together. Maybe I can still come over and cook for you, but I don't want to be just tied to you anymore. 'Cause I'm not getting any fun from you anymore. Navy. And then of course, you know, Say for instance, your mate gets sick, God, that's really a rough one. You know, that you've been together for years and your mate comes with some incurable disease, like MS, you know, some degenerative disease. That's really a hard one.

That's tough.

Yeah.

So.

In my arena, there are no absolutes. Like I say, you know, we are gonna die with Freud still lives.

Freud still lives. What's your advice for people who are looking to find a great relationship? It seems like the culture right now is kind of a, at least in the younger generation, is a hookup culture, a non-committal culture, yet they're seeking and wanting connection more than ever, but they're afraid or they're constantly in comparison mode of other options. What would you say are Three questions that you would ask someone to see if you think that it's even possible that they'd be a good fit, a great match for your love. What would be three things you could ask someone to even then observe and see like, okay, if they're authentically telling the truth, this could be a good potential match.

Ah, wow. That's a hard question. I don't know. I pick up things that often people don't say. And they, you know, I don't even know what those three questions would be. I would really be completely sensitive and observant about what I feel. Like some people say, you know, I'm really here for life. And something happens and they out of here and they told me they were not going to divorce me. Right. But something happened- and they're out. -and they're out. so I'm not saying they lied to me. I'm just saying, you know, I would just experience and see how committed they are and how.

How makes you feel around?

I mean, they stand, they how they're word and, you know, interesting. Yeah. Because I know couples who have come to me where the lady was very spiritual and the man was atheist. You know, you go like, you go like, Do you love God? And the verse is, no. And they're out of there, right? If they answer that question, the other person wants someone who loves God. I have a couple like that.

They love each other.

They're together in some kind of way. He got into her spirituality.

Right, right. Well, there you go.

Yeah, so, you know, we all grow and evolve and shift and change. I just pay attention.

When someone is in a good dating experience, they start dating or they're in a good relationship and it seems like it's going really well. How would you support them in making sure they don't self-sabotage the relationship? Because I hear this a lot that people find something good and then they get scared. It's too good or they self-sabotage and kind of like, destruct the relationship.

Yeah.

Or they make some stupid mistake or they hurt the person. It's like, why do you think people do that and how can we move beyond that? So these negative thoughts don't ruin something that could be good for us?

Well, my understanding and experience is that one has to love the concept and the idea of relationship more than you do your ego.

What does that mean?

That means if I really want a relationship, So, okay, okay, here comes my stuff. Okay, I gotta run. See, that's my ego. Here's my fear, or it's too good. You know, so you have to love the idea of relationship that you go through the rough times, you have the conversations, you have the communication, you have your authentic moments, and work through it so we can sustain. sustaining this relationship rather than, I don't like that, or I don't like, and you're saying your ego. The I. You have to get into the we. You have to love the we more than you do the I. You got to love the I too. It's the I and the I and the we. But you got to really love the we.

There's a three parts to the relationship.

It's three parts to the relationship.

Maybe four if you had the spiritual connection to the relationship or something. Yeah. you, the other person, and then the relationship. That's right.

I'm sure that individual has been there before, you know, in terms of, you know, they get to this uncomfortable place.

Where it feels good. You mean uncomfortable where like things are good.

Okay.

Makes them feel scared.

Okay, then they got work to do on appreciation and deserving.

Deserving.

Deserving. Do I deserve this? Or maybe trust, you know, some kind of way, some kind of work on yourself trust of whatever, some kind of fear there.

How do we learn how to feel like we deserve something good for us? Because I remember growing up feeling like I didn't deserve anything good. I was always kind of in beat up mode.

Yeah.

You know, I'm not good enough. I'm too stupid. I'm not, you know, good looking. Like, I'm not talented, not smart. There was a constant, like, negative.

You didn't think all that. All of it.

Yes. For many years. And so it drove me to try to make myself something to be accepted by others. But I still didn't believe in myself. For years, I was in that state of mind until I was able to process the healing of the traumas of the past.

Yeah.

For me.

Yeah, sure.

Now I was still a functional human being, but I had this like, is that man and anger and feelings inside. But how do people to a place of, you know, I deserve to feel loved. I deserve a healthy, conscious relationship. I deserve a person who is trustworthy and who's honest and integrity. And, you know, how do we get to that place of feeling like we deserve it and knowing it?

Well, that's deep seated work. I mean, what I experience a lot from individuals, they intellectually know that they may not be feel, you know, that they're not, they have that idea in their psyche that they're not deserving.

Yes.

That's intellectual, but I find that a lot of people are frozen on the feeling level. So it's like the sadness around whatever happened in the childhood experience that caused you to shut down and to, you know, identify with undeserving stuff. The feelings around it are frozen. And so often when clients come with that, it's deep. and I have to take them through this trance work that I do into experiences of the childhood they completely forgot about. And the next thing you know, the tears come, which means they're detoxing. The ice is breaking.

Oh, interesting. What do tears do for us? What is that process?

It releases that stress, that hurt, that pain, and then in a relaxation. I mean, invariably clients say they feel lighter after they've cried.

The weight has come off.

Yeah, but then holding all of that, carrying that heist around, all that frozen energy, all of that defensive stuff from not allowing you to feel that. And then once you feel it, it's a release.

Are we able to get to a place of release without crying or does one have to cry in order to feel free?

Well, that's the emotional arena. Okay. You know, that's why I said they're all four arenas and the mental, the.

Intellectual, the emotional, what do you say?

The spiritual, physical.

Physical. Gotcha. Is emotional also connected to the physical?

Oh, that was another level. Right.

Brought that in. That's a whole nother level. Is the emotional also connected to the physical?

Because it's an emotional and physical release.

That'S happening.

Yes. We can save ourselves a lot of physical ailments.

I gotcha.

You know, it's not, you never blame an individual for anything that, you know, happens because, you know, it's out there. That disease and stuff is out there. But, you know, if for chance we want to look deeper and there's a possibility of going to remission or spontaneous, right? curing, then we can deepen into, why me? What is this trying to tell me? And we don't just heal into life. Sometimes we heal into death.

Interesting. If we don't heal into life, we're going to heal into death, hopefully.

Well, healing is the goal.

Yes.

Like I had a client years ago. and she had melanoma cancer. And her husband told me after she died, said, Siri really helped me. He taught me about God before I died. That was so moving to hear that. I couldn't save her physical life, But maybe she got some soul life, you know, for the next. Yeah, that was beautiful. And that was very, she taught me something. And I learned from people I work with. It's not just me sitting here. I learned it's a collaborative thing. It's, you know, a total, you know, divine being sitting in front of me. I can learn, I learned from them.

Right, right. What's the biggest lesson you've learned through working with someone?

Well, I'm always thankful for clients, I should say humbled at the fact when clients come to me, they could choose anybody. They could go anywhere. This is America. You got all kinds of options. So it's very humbling when individuals choose me and assess that I can help them on their soul's journey. So it deepens me into the experience that really is not me. I couldn't possibly understand sometimes some of the things that flow through me when I sit with an individual. And so it sort of deepens me into a spiritual oneness, you know, because I don't let it go to my head, whoever's coming to me. And it's like, wow, now you're sitting in this seat as a helper, therapist, healer, father, spiritual father, brother, guide, psychopomp, and I just surrendered to that. And so, I mean, after sessions, like sometimes clients being very dark stuff, but I just surrender into that and we both just go into that darkness and we feel so much lighter at the end. So it's a very spiritual experience is what I'm getting at. It's very humbling. It's very humbling.

Gotcha. That's the lesson. Yeah.

It's not me.

Interesting.

It's not me.

Yeah.

I've done the work. Yes, I've done the work. I've had teachers. I bow my head every morning, meditation. but yet it's an experience for me to deepen into the unknown when I sit with a client. Because, I mean, the word clients ring. I wrote it in a book.

What's that?

It's not in a book. It's not in a book what they're bringing. You know, it's like, you know, so I have to really sit in a deep sensitivity. and an intuition and a knowingness that is beyond me. So it's, I'm just like thankful, you know, that is the word thankful and humble when a client comes because it gives me the opportunity to get deeper into that oneness and let the unknown flow through me.

Yeah.

So more becomes known.

What is the thing that if people evolved more of in a relationship that would support them and feeling happier, healthier, and more whole, as opposed to disconnected. What's the thing if they did more of something, they learned something, they deepened to practice in something, what would that be?

I think the goal is self-awareness. You know, just to be aware of your limitations, your fears, your likes, your dislikes. your triggers, your deal breakers. Oh, God. You know, just to be self-aware. What I like, what I don't like. Where's the passions? Yeah. And then to get into the, you have to have the self-love.

What happens if we don't have self-love in a relationship where we love someone else?

Well, it's, you know, it can get an imbalance. Either you love them and Just giving, you get them, you know, for a person who's really not sitting in self-love and you know, that pop term co-dependence is not a psychological co-dependence, then I'm just loving on you, but I don't really know how to receive.

What happens when someone does that?

When what? They just co-depend.

They love on someone else, but they don't know how to receive or they don't know how to love themselves. What happens?

Oh, they just maybe missed out completely on the possibilities of having a, of becoming whole. They're not completely whole, you know. So, I mean, people have relationships of where often we're not whole and they last.

Really?

Yeah. Just like that. I've heard of one where the you know, the man is just giving, giving, giving to the woman and doesn't know what he's feeling or, you know, able to express it. So, yeah, I mean, we're naked in life not being perfect.

Of course. Yeah, of course.

And get into relationships not being perfect. Absolutely. We all just do the best we can.

Yeah.

And then I think the third is self-expression, you know, to be able to express yourself.

Why do people feel like they can't express themselves in an intimate relationship? Is it because they've been made wrong for how they feel? They're not listened to or heard properly. They're judged or not accepted. What's the main cause of why we in general don't express or feel like we don't have the ability to express?

Well, obviously the self-love is not there. See, we missed the seven.

We don't love ourselves, we don't express it.

It's difficult.

Why would we do that?

Because you don't have permission to be.

Okay.

You know, love is, you know.

As.

We'Re taught, God is love. So all of me is God. I'm not the total God, but if I'm at one with myself, I'm in love. and then I can just be the total me.

What if someone doesn't accept who you are?

That happens often. Not my loss.

Right.

Experience, not my loss.

Right, right. Is it, what if someone you're in a relationship with for long term stops accepting you as their way to still make it work or does the other partner need to fully accept who they are? in order for it to be kind of a healthy relationship.

You know, relationships just take work. That's why I say you have to love the idea of the relationship more than you do your ego.

Interesting.

Because relationships are not easy. People, you know, come in relationships and they're at 20s and you're there for 20 years. Well, that's a different.

You're different people. Yeah, different people.

Who am I now? You know, is the sex just as good, you know? Okay, as, you know, I thought I like your cooking. I'm they tired of it now, you know? I don't want to eat meat anymore. I'm a vegetarian. So, I mean, it's constantly changing and evolving. So if you really don't have the love relationship, it's difficult because things are always Coming up. You're changing, they're changing, the universe is changing. You know? Wow.

Should relationships be hard or is there a way that they can be more flowing where it doesn't have to feel like this hard, exhausting, challenging thing? Like is it supposed to be that way or can it be like, wow, you know what? We are aligning and sure there's challenges. but because we're aligned, we're able to work through them with more ease and effortlessness and flow because we're consciously doing that. Is that a possibility or is it all hard work?

Well, I've come to understand you just attract yourself. And so the more work you've done.

On yourself... You attract someone else who's done that. Yeah.

And usually what you don't like in the other person is usually what you haven't owned within yourself.

The mirror of life.

And it's usually, we call it the split off part of self. It's the unconscious part of you. Like for example, you don't like to get angry. So then you attract an angry mate, one who can collude with you and can take your anger and they have no trouble all the time. And you sit here, Always calm and connected. So the more you work on yourself, like, of course, the healing that would be for the first to take their ability to effectively express anger, and then the other person won't have to get angry all the time, and then you have to get upset with them because they're always angry.

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So it's really accepting yourself, and I think you can accept another, you know.

You can, you can accept someone else when you fully accept yourself. Everything about you, the good, the ugly.

Especially the the bad and the ugly. It's like, you know, baby, I'm working on this.

Right.

Okay. I'm not quite where I want to be yet. But, you know, I have trouble. You know, that's self-expression that's also a self-awareness that's also a love that I'm not saying, you know, I got this to work on. Can you just, you know, be aware that this is unevolved.

How do we get to a place where fully accept all of us. How do we get to a place? You know what? I don't like this, this, and this about me, but I accept myself. How do we learn to do that?

Well, that's why I say again, we can't see ourselves. It's like, and if you don't work on yourself, you don't grow. You don't change. Like if you don't go to the gym and lift up some weights and stuff, your muscles don't change. Matter of fact, they get flabby. They weaken.

Yes.

And so if you do not have some way of working on yourself, whether it's with a coach or a therapist.

Or astrologer or mentor or something like that.

Mentor or the I Ching or whatever, you know, throwing the shells or going to the Orishas or going, you don't change. You don't. You will change. You'll get older and all that kind of stuff, but that deep seated stuff that you have to resolve and look at, it'll just be there until you die.

Knowing that we're all imperfect human beings on our own journey, what would be the prescription you would give to couples getting into a relationship before marriage? They're deciding they want to get married and now, okay, it's gonna happen soon. Six months, a year, two months, it's happening. What would you prescribe them to try to set them up for the best possible success of happiness and joy and growth and contribution in the relationship.

I think that what I hear is that you just have to relax and see what comes to you and be able to consciously deal with whatever comes to you. I think the word is consciously, you know, that and you know, often that relationships that are challenging at first are really opportunities for growth.

Yes.

And so not to run immediately.

Not to leave immediately.

Yeah, leave immediately.

Maybe you do leave, but sometimes you do. After maybe you do.

You know, you got to pay attention and see if this is something that we can like I I think there's resentment. You don't want to hold resentment. Right. And there's sacrifice. And so sacrifice is when you can really like, oh, I want to, let's have sushi tonight. Oh, baby, I don't want to have sushi. I want to have Italian tonight. Okay, I can have Italian, which you really sacrifice and you enjoy the Italian food. Now, resentment would be, Okay, I'll go have Italian with you and you sit there and you're miserable the whole time.

Can't do that.

And then of course, there's compromise. So you got those three. That's, I think, compromise. And I think also in front of compromise, somewhere in here is giving in.

You don't want to do that?

Giving in.

That doesn't sound healthy.

I think giving in is sacrifice. Giving up is maybe resenting it.

Giving in is sacrifice.

Giving up is resenting it.

Gotcha.

And compromise is the possible solution. You know, what can you compromise on? What can you sacrifice on? What, you know, is just Compromise is.

Like the win-win solution, right? It's like, okay, where do we both feel?

Both the sacrifice a little bit.

Yeah, we feel, we feel okay, brother. Okay, I like that. So that'd be your prescription going in to be aware of these things, to practice.

But you have to work on yourself. I think that's the thing.

Yeah.

That you got to work on yourself, you know, become aware of your misgivings, your your fears, your doubts, your insecurities, your assets, your goals, your dreams, you know, just become as self-aware as you can. So you can even say, I'm not relationship material. Some people are not relationship material. That's self-aware.

That's true.

Maybe you are, you know, a gentleman that can date and you know, and you just don't know how to commit and you're afraid of commitment and just realize that, that you cannot be just with one woman.

That's hard for some people, right? To accept it, I guess.

You know, I always tell my women, you know, look at your dog, you know? Is it a wild one? Some women marry coyotes. You can't tame those darn things.

Right, right. Might take generations to tame them.

Make sure you got a house dog. That wants to be in the house.

Right.

Yeah. That is able to- Not always on the hunt. Shift.

Yeah.

You know, so you gotta be- In.

The middle of the night, creeping around the dark corners.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's awareness. yeah. It seems like sometimes people try to put someone in the box of they're in a committed relationship type of person when they're not. They try to force it, they try to see, well, maybe potentially they could be even when they're telling me not.

Yeah.

And they kind of lean into it and then they hurt themselves or they get disappointed.

You gotta see who the other person is.

What's the one question you wish more people would ask you about relationships that they don't ask?

So interesting. I mean, you're focusing on relationships today. You know, as an lmft, that is the scope of our practice, is relationships.

Yeah.

The one question they would ask about relationships.

What's the one question you wish more people asked you about relationships that they don't ask?

Well, where is your grit? Do you have the grit to really do the work to go through the rough spots in this relationship?

Ask yourself, do I have the grit?

Do I have the grit?

If this happens, can I handle it? If that happens, when this happens, where's.

Your level of commitment? What are your deal breakers? What's really going to trigger you if your partner does this that may trigger your grit and commitment to where you want to flee. As an LMFT, I've never heard anybody else say this, but I just think about, you know, relationships end. You know, I can think of my high school friends, my college friends.

Yes, they end.

They end.

They don't have to be forever.

They don't have to be forever. And so I see that often with, you know, couples that have been together, and I'm just so respectful of people that can stay together until of death to be in part.

Right.

That is the statement. The vow.

But it's very rare.

Yeah, but it doesn't always work.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I think we should change the narrative around a relationship failing or not working out.

Yes.

I feel like, I remember I was talking to Michael Beckwith about this.

Yes.

Because he was married and divorced.

Yes.

I said, How do you feel about it? He said, I feel fine because not all relationships are supposed to last forever. I think he was together for seven years or seven or nine years. And he was like, We had our season that served its purpose. We consciously moved beyond that season. And now this is where we're at. And I thought he had a great approach to it. And I was like, you, know, we should celebrate what the relationship did for each person.

Exactly.

To help them grow together individually, to help inspire people or help others.

That's right.

And whatever the way the relationship did. And not, yes, there's a mourning and a grieving process that's natural of any loss or any transition.

Yes. But I think there should also be.

A celebration of, okay, I can still look back at this as something that gave me an incredible gift. Exactly. And hopefully I was able to contribute in this relationship in a beautiful way also, right?

Yes, yes.

Not of like, oh, my life is over, this didn't work out.

Out.

I don't know, what are your thoughts on that?

I think that's absolutely correct, what you just said. And I guess the word is truth. We haven't thrown that into our interview here to live truthfully. It's like you may even keep the marriage, but maybe we live on different floors because we got kids and we're gonna have a new age relationship. relationship, but at least be able to effectively again that word speak your truth or where are we baby? What are we doing right now? How does this feel to you? How do we keep this going? Do we want to keep this going? If we do, what does it look like? Right. You know? Right. Yeah. So just I think communication is very integral, but truth, people often don't speak that truth. truth. Why?

Is it because we're afraid of what not being received?

I think it's scary when I feel.

Like I can be a hundred percent authentic to my truth.

Yes.

And it's not judged. Yeah. That's when you feel safe. That's when I feel safe. That's why I feel more connected, more sense of love. And sometimes in the previous relationships when I've shared my truth, my insecurities and my fears, it hasn't been received.

Yes.

I'm like, ah, this doesn't feel too good.

Yes.

You've got to be willing to receive someone else's.

That's right. As much as you want them to receive. That's right.

That's right. Maybe you don't like what you're hearing.

That's right. But you've got to learn to receive.

It and accept at some point. And if they can't, then that's information for you.

Yeah.

This has been really inspiring in many ways. One from the first half of the interview of us addressing certain things that you want to do to address and and me being hopefully receptive, I' going.

To show that I mean you deal.

With every very back as a therapist, how was was I able to did I handle it appropriately? Did I uhh, you know, was I defensive? W I?.

Defensentful and real What resentful you? We wouldn't have gotten here if I was we like peace You we wouldn't be here if you you hadn't handled that so effectively.

Okay. Yeah.

And so I'm very respectful of you.

Oh, thank you.

Okay. That you were, you know, able to, you know, and, you know, I was able to effectively express it. So, you know, we brought us closer together, and I think, you know, I had to walk my talk, you know, I couldn't be, you know, and then doing something that's not. Okay.

And my therapist has been telling me. I went through a breakup a couple months ago. I ended the relationship after five months of couples intensive couples therapy where we both love each other and care about each other deeply. But I realized that the values and the vision and some other things weren't aligned. And we weren't able to come to agreements on so many things. It was just causing a lot of friction. And my therapist was like, you know, the universe is gonna bring you many tests.

Yes.

To see if you're integrating the lessons you've learned in the previous five months of our coaching and therapy sessions. And she's been right. Every day there's something that's testing me to be like, okay, how am I gonna process and handle this situation? Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, 10 years ago, I probably been very defensive.

Okay.

What do you mean? You don't understand me? I didn't try to do this.

What are you talking about? You know, it's like, yeah.

As opposed to, okay, I was really.

Just like, tell me more.

Yeah, you were. Is there anything else you wanna share? 'Cause I don't want to be anything unsaid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Harborin' in there, and then you not being your authentic self.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, read the paragraph on forgiveness. Okay. Forgiving is not easy. Okay. We are human, and at times, for whatever reason, we feel we have been slighted. Okay. Allow us to acknowledge our feelings and process what transpired. Whatever the case may be, it is best to completely let go of resentment, for that will harm us in the future.

Yes.

Resentment allowed to fester can later transform into physical unwellness, some type of sickness. Rather than judge the individual who has violated our boundaries or our sense of good, give them to the divine, capital D. And giving them to the divine, we become completely resolved. as the spiritual law of karma becomes operative in the other's life. Resentment must go for the other as we perhaps must also forgive ourselves.

Okay.

That's a nice statement.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Powerful statements. Number one, forgiving another challenges my ego, but uplifts my spirit.

Say that again.

It challenges my ego, but it uplifts my spirit.

Okay. I was really experiencing that.

Your ego's being challenged.

It was being challenged.

Forgiving I can do, but I forget only when my safety is not at risk. Forgiving another activates the process of transforming my hurt.

Okay.

What happens if we don't forgive? Does the hurt stay inside? Because you said forgiving activates the process of transforming.

So what it is, is like, I mean, something happened that you feel transgressed again.

Yes.

So all of that is in here. It's a morass of feelings, hurt, anger, resentment, disgust at yourself, fear of not saying your truth, boundaries crossed. All of that is in here. And so if I didn't forgive, that is all there.

Forgiving myself or another is essential otherwise I mentally and emotionally stagnate. Gosh, so forgiveness is really like the ultimate.

Yes.

To freedom, to peace, to health.

Yeah, you can't take it away from me. Yeah, yeah.

For some you may be able to momentarily forgive.

Yeah, you step on my foot. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, oh okay, no problem. Yeah, yeah.

But I guess it depends on the emotional emotional trigger that you have from the past.

The emotional trigger and how severe the transgression was.

Right, right, exactly. So it's all personal. It's all personal stuff. And someone might go through something and not be hurt by it, but another person who's got that, I guess, transgression would feel more hurt by that situation, depending. Forgiving myself or others reminds me that Someone acted unconsciously.

I did say that to you too. Yeah, absolutely.

Forgiving involves looking at things from a broader perspective. Forgiving another triggers my awareness that all do not think or act like me. Forgiving myself or another can take time.

Okay.

Forgiving another catapults me into a realm of high spirituality.

I believe that for sure.

Yes. If we're not forgiving, then we're in our ego, right?

Yeah, yeah.

We're like staying in that.

We're thankful. We're not growing, yeah.

Forgiving Another says, Release and let go into love.

Oh, well.

That's beautiful.

Okay.

Forgiving Another frees me to love once again.

Okay. Damn.

You're like, Did I write this?

I honestly do have that experience, like, you know, like my dissertation is 365 pages. and I reread it like, I mean, it just feels like, I mean, did I really write it? You know what I mean? And I know I did, but, and that's why I'm writing them. I started on my second book, but it's really, you know, a surrender.

Yes. Yes.

It's really surrendering to something because channel. Yes. That you want to just foot truth and reality and information that's out there that's going to help and elevate.

Absolutely. Well, you're doing that with this book, the Pocket Guru, which is really inspiring. It's guidance for, and I read a lot of the stuff in here that you heard me read out, who's watching. Guidance and mantras for spiritual awakening and emotional wisdom. And I think that's what we all need more of, is emotional wisdom. with all the different challenges that come up in relationships, in politics, in business or career, in health. It's the emotional wisdom that we bring to pain, stress, anxiety, triggers, events in the world. How can we bring the emotional wisdom so we don't stay stuck in the pain? So it doesn't stay in us.

And they honored me. It won the Walden Award. and mind-body healing this year.

Congratulations. That's very exciting. I want people to get the book, the Pocket Guru. You can check it out. I have a couple final questions for you. This is called the Three Truths class that I ask everyone towards the end of the interview. So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical situation that it's your very last day on earth.

Oh my God.

Many years away. You live as long as long as you want to live. And you accomplish all the dreams and goals and peace that you want to create. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your written and audio and video work with you. So the book goes to the next place or it's no longer available. But you get to leave behind three lessons that you would share with the world from all the things that you've learned. I call it the three truths. What would you say are those three truths that you would share? with the world.

Live your life because if you don't, who will? Seek your truth.

Yeah.

Otherwise you will die a lie. Ooh.

Okay. I love that one.

Love yourself, and then you will give us the ability, give yourself the ability to deepen into love for the other.

Those Three powerful truths. Very powerful. Live your life.

Live your life otherwise.

Otherwise?

Who will?

Who will? Speak your truth or die a lie. I've never heard it said that way.

I've never said it.

See, once you forgive, you just tap into this spiritual awakening and things flow through you. Read it again. Live your life otherwise who will. Speak your truth or die a lie. and then love yourself.

So you can deepen into the love of the other.

I love this. Those are powerful three truths. I want to acknowledge you, Dr. Siri, for showing up here today the way that you did by expressing your full range of emotions in an effective manner, in a conscious manner, by shifting and allowing me to receive it and shifting so that we can have an effective conversation and help people with these lessons that you've learned and help people with the tools that you have. And I acknowledge you for giving me the opportunity to continue to learn and grow and realize that I'm an imperfect human and accepting my own mistakes and all the stuff that I have.

I don't want to put imperfect on you or mistakes on you.

Okay.

I think you were. I mean, we're all doing the best we can. And I think you just had. You were just being you.

Yeah.

You know, and. And then I just made some. Brought your attention to some things. Sure. Sure. And so you expanded and you grow. I think we both did. Absolutely. I think it was a beautiful model we had today.

Absolutely.

A beautiful model.

Yes.

Real, real time.

Yeah, there was a breakdown and we communicated effectively, I think. Hopefully I was an active listener and I think so. Compassionate and understanding. And I felt like you weren't attacking me aggressively.

Not at all.

And throwing everything at me in a certain way that I wouldn't be able to receive it.

Oh, it wouldn't have been horrible.

Because then what are we doing? We're just upset at each other. Probably wouldn't have been a big anniversary.

I was thinking tour coming up.

What's that?

I have a speaking tour that's going to begin in September. We already have booked in Saratoga, New York and Buffalo, New York and we have other cities that are in negotiations.

So where can people go to learn more about you, the tour, the book, social media, where can they go?

Well, info@serisatnam.com. S-I-R-I. S-A-T-N-A-M.com SiriSatnam.com no, info@SiriSatnam.com and social media is Dr. Siri Now Instagram Dr. Siri.

Now Instagram, is that your most active platform? Okay, so make sure everyone go follow Dr. Siri over on Instagram, send him a direct message and let him know what you enjoyed most from this conversation.

Yeah, the website is SiriSatnam.com Yes, your email is info@seriousfunnycity.com.

Gotcha. So you can learn more about the tour, the books, get a couple for your friends.

Mentorship program. I have a mentorship program.

Mentorship program and everything else over there. This has been beautiful. My final question for you.

Yeah, oh God, another one.

Is what is your definition of greatness?

Greatness. Well, I think that's to live in harmony with yourself. I think we all are great because we are created by that unseen greatness. Just think of what is it that got the sun, you know, sitting in the sky, the seasons coming to go and and woman opens up to give birth to life, and she turns her blood into milk to nurture us, and what is, that is nothing but the great divinity, and we come from that, and we are that, but we forget that. And so to live in that is to be great.

Absolutely. Dr. Siri, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you very much.

Yes, yes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, make sure to spread the message of greatness to a few friends or post it over on social media, as well as click the subscribe button if this is your first time here and leave a review with what part of this episode you enjoyed the most. Feel free to share your thoughts, your feedback and your inspiration from this episode on Apple Podcast Review section. I'd love to hear what your thoughts are there. And again, I hope you enjoyed the first part of this episode where we really navigated How to handle a breakdown and how both of us handled it in our own way. Hope that taught you some things, just witnessing that as well. And I love your thoughts on that process that we had together. And I'd love to leave you with this quote from Oprah who said, True forgiveness is when you can say thank you for that experience. Again, I'm grateful for you for showing up today in your greatest version of yourself, for constantly being a learner, for constantly trying to improve yourself, and by implementing the things you learn every day into your life and making the impact that you can do on the people around you as well. You have a beautiful gift, my friend. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter, I'm so grateful for you. And you know what time it is? It's time to go out there and do something great.

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