Why Willpower Never Actually Changes You | Peter Crone

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I don't know many humans who don't suffer. They're just trying to avoid a bad future that hasn't happened yet. It's one of the craziest paradoxes of being human is that whilst it's a great survival instrument, it's a horrific way of living a thriving creative life. It wasn't love, it was more attachment, possession, codependency. That's how most relationships Insecurity too, right? All of it.

Leading expert in human potential and performance who has spent decades coaching elite athletes, top executives, and high performers, please welcome Peter Crone.

How hard is it to create amazing love in a relationship with someone else?

True love is learning to embrace all parts of you, including the part of you that feels unlovable. If I'm fully okay with me, then I can extend that to others. If I'm not, then I'm only going to find fault with those that I need. You pick up a pen that's got red ink in it, it's gonna write in red. Like, it doesn't matter how hard you try, the conditioning of our subconscious will eventually manifest.

Do you feel like most people are suffering in the world today?

Oh, gosh.

Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Peter Crone in the house. Good to see you, sir.

I mean it. It's generally great to be here. This is such a pleasure. And Yeah, I just admire who you are. And even more so after our little tête-à-tête before.

We had a whole podcast before this. So now we're gonna start recording for real.

Yeah.

Everything that you teach people is around how to create less suffering and more freedom.

Yeah.

And I'm curious, what do you think is the number one thing then that blocks people from reaching their full potential with freedom in mind?

Oh gosh. I mean, I feel borderline concerned that I might speak for an hour to that just alone. I think it's part of the joy and the challenge of being human, which is we become misidentified with this sort of identity of ourselves. Like, there's this personality that typically gets forged in our childhood. We think that we're this, we're not that. Kids are often told, don't do this, you're bad, you're wrong, you're right. And so we start to forge this facade and that becomes the very constraint against which we tend to spend the rest of our life trying to overcome or disproving, fixing or improving. And so that to me is the greatest obstacle. Like I literally over the retreat I was telling you a little bit about, I said the greatest adversary any human being is ever gonna sort of face during the course of their life is their own identity. To me, it's the ultimate addiction, is the idea of ourselves. that becomes the obstacle to the very essence of who we are beneath that. So that's why one of my catchphrases is, I don't solve problems, I dissolve them.

Is the subconscious mind something that develops our identity?

I would say it's the foundation for it. So these underlying, very similar to like, we're obviously in a huge building here and the size of the building has to be commensurate with the size of the foundation or vice versa, right? Like, we couldn't build the foundations that were set for a 1,200-square-foot home and build this beautiful building that you've got your studio in. It wouldn't— they're incompatible, right? So I think the subconscious creates the foundation for then the personality which is born from that. So the genesis of who we think we are is really built upon these, you know, Carl Jung would call it more unconscious ideas of ourselves that inform the way that we think, feel, act, and then the commensurate results that come from that.

Right. I mean, you talk about this where you were 7 when you lost your mom and then 17 when you lost your dad.

Yeah.

So you were alone essentially without parents, without biological parents by 17.

Yeah.

How did that experience and environment and subconscious programming—

yeah—

develop your identity at 17?

I mean, unfortunately, I wasn't aware of it until many years later, which is always the case, right? But what I discovered in my first kind of what I thought was a loving relationship, as best as I could know at the ripe old age of 28, the first person I thought was, oh my God, she's the one, was like a profound sense of fear of loss. So what that looked like in the relationship was the compensation patterns, the strategies, was do everything I could to— it was this always the case. I use quotes, as you know, I say, past hurt informs future fear. So my past hurt of parents dying, no one would begrudge me, that was obviously a very challenging situation to go through. And so the way that I would try to compensate, which is how the brain works, it's designed to predict and protect. So it's one of the craziest paradoxes of being human is that whilst it's a great survival instrument, it's a horrific way of living a thriving creative life where we can be free. It's more we're looking out for these worst-case scenarios, or as I tell people, that, you know, they're just trying to avoid a bad future that hasn't happened yet, right? So I was trying to avoid a bad future of loss. What that looked like in the relationship was I became the perfect boyfriend. So it was not just Peter, who she adored and loved— she had no issue with me— it was my way of trying to mitigate the hurt that I was still carrying.

Hmm.

So the perfect boyfriend became Peter Plus. Right. And so, um, over and above everything, was it like— Yeah, I was already loving, kind, generous. I consider myself to be a good dude, you know, like I've never shouted, I've never hit anyone, I've never cheated. Like, you know, on paper, like I check all the boxes, but it was— that was insufficient for my identity, which was like, I love this person, which of course now I see wasn't love, it was more attachment, possession, codependency. That's how most relationships get formed.

Insecurity too, right?

All of it. Right. Fear. And so that then created the— what I consider to be the best strategy, which is all unconscious, right? It's all survival. The primordial imperative of every mammal is to survive. So I'm trying to survive, not realizing what I'm trying to survive is my own feelings of inadequacy that she might leave me.

Yeah. Wow.

Which then becomes self-fulfilling, right? So when people talk about sabotage, it's not inaccurate, but I want people to consider it's not sabotage so much as self-fulfillment, right? Like you're not sabotaging anything. You're actually fulfilling on your code and your wiring.

Projection of your program.

Yeah. So it's like you pick up a pen that's got red ink in it, it's going to write in red. It doesn't matter how hard you try. So likewise with our wiring, the conditioning of our subconscious will eventually manifest. People talk about manifestation all day, and I'm like, I just feel they have no full understanding. So yeah, so that led to her leaving, which was at the time the most painful thing that subsequently became the most powerful thing because about 2 months after my own demise of my suffering and my sadness and my desperation, I, for whatever bizarre reasons and the way that my karma apparently is scheduled to unfold, I had this sudden epiphany and I was asking these questions incessantly, like, where is she? Will I see her again? Is she dating someone else? Will I have love like that again? And it was keeping me up at night quite literally because I'm trying to find the answer to the question, which is the way that the ego tries to resolve its own fear with certainty, which itself is a complete misnomer because life is uncertain. So when I realized, um, there was no answer to the questions, I guess I got the epiphany of the answer to all the questions in the same time. Where is she? Is she dating someone else? Will I see her again? Will I find love? It was all the same answer: I don't know. I don't know where she is. I don't know if she's dating. It was just emphatically the truth. And for the first time in my life, I realized not only is the nature of life uncertainty, which is such a conflict for the ego that wants to know, But I was completely at peace with it. I felt a freedom through my body cascade in every cell that I'd never ever experienced. And that started my whole next chapter of my career.

Really?

Yeah, I met some people for dinner. The craziest part, without getting too deep down the rabbit hole quantum physics, within 15 minutes, back then, without showing my age, I think I had a cell phone, but everything was predominantly landline. I was sitting at my shitty IKEA desk in a rent control apartment with next to nothing. my name. And the phone rang within 15 minutes of the epiphany, right? And now she calls me. I haven't spoken to her for 6 weeks. Now she's crying.

This is like Swingers. Have you seen the movie Swingers?

No.

Oh, man.

Okay. I think I have a different interpretation of Swingers.

No, no, no. He finally— in the movie, he finally like lets go of the girl he's obsessed about that they're not together for a year.

Okay.

And then she calls him and he's like, this is the test.

Yeah.

It's like, okay, do I go back to to the old person or old place? Or do I— now that she's given me everything I want, am I ready to move on type of thing? But when she called you, what happened?

A myriad of things went through my mind so quickly just by virtue of the fact that I had stepped into a new dimension, right, without sounding too poetic.

Energetically.

Energetically, I was a new human being.

You shifted.

Completely. And it really spoke to, in quantum realms, entanglement theory, right? So what I realized simultaneously, like within split seconds, all of these different bubbles just popped where I was like, holy shit, life is uncertainty. I'm totally at peace with that. And even if I'm not, it doesn't matter how much I try to work it out, and I'm pretty high IQ, I'm still not going to know because life is uncertainty. That's the paradox. We're designed as humans to try and perpetuate our existence, survival-based operating system that I talk about. And yet we live in a paradigm that by virtue of its design, you don't know. Yeah, but I want to know. Yeah, but you don't know. Yeah, but I want to know. And this is why people are exhausted. That's fear, anxiety, and all the things that people struggle with. So freedom cascaded through every cell in my body. I felt like I could almost levitate. And I actually went to dinner that evening, and I didn't feel like I touched the sidewalk. It was a very unique feeling. But to come back to your question, within 15 minutes she calls me. Now she's crying, saying she misses me so much, which is all I was desperately craving 2 months previous, right?

Yes.

Because that little part of me, the younger part that wanted her recognition of me and her reassurance of me and the little boy. She did come back for a minute. I mean, because it was— I loved her. I still do. We were out of touch for probably a decade, and then she reached out. She's married, lives in Florida. It's beautiful to be back in touch and reminisce on the things that we both learned. But I, I was a different human being. I think she was with me maybe for a month after that, but I literally— I talk about it in my work— I jumped timelines. I was in a different frequency. And so what was a predictable future on the same timeline now had become redundant. Like, you know, in the Yoga Sutras, there's a beautiful quote. It says, you know, when there's this sort of moment of enlightenment, all future suffering dissolves. So I jumped timelines and a new future that I could never have predicted from the previous one became available. And it didn't include her, not at least in a romantic sense.

Interesting. So you tried it for like a month, but you realized, oh, we're not in alignment anymore.

Or not in a bad way like it was before where I was dead.

Because I guess I was never in alignment. You were in attachment, right? It's like insecure attachment or something.

And that's where it's hard for people to hear, but in the retreat that I just did, I was telling people, most of you are in a relationship, but you're not in relationship. Subtle, right? Like you're in the form of it, my girlfriend, my boyfriend, my husband, my wife, but you're not actually relating, and therefore you don't have a relationship.

Yeah.

Most people are solely in the relationship with their own conditioning, which is a way that they survive, and they use the other person as a means to a way they manipulate that to try and get love and acceptance, which is really the dialogue of a child who's fundamentally wanting to feel safe.

Yes.

You know, so I got over all of that. So I'd say ironically, we were more in a relationship when she came back because I was available, and that was the entanglement moment. I wasn't available before because I was living in fear, trying to avoid her leaving me, even though she loved me. So I was fundamentally in a relationship with my own conditioning, which is how most people live, which is why relationships are typically the bane of people's existence, because they don't have sufficient self-acceptance, love, and peace to truly be with another human, you know. So a lot happened very quickly.

And it's so funny because we were talking about relationships for like an hour beforehand.

Yeah.

And it opens up something for me where early on when I was dating Martha, I remember thinking, this is the best woman I've ever met, the most spiritually evolved, the healthiest, the most conscious, the most responsible, you know, emotionally regulated, like all the things. Not, not perfect, but willing to continue to work on herself and evolve and willing to take responsibility and, and also driven and creative and beautiful and all these things. And I was like, this is the greatest woman I've ever met. And if we're not meant to be, yeah, I'm at peace with that.

Yeah.

I don't need to prove, overprove, overextend to try to make something work because that never worked in the past.

Yeah.

And I said, if we're not meant to be, we're not in alignment. it's not going to— it's okay. Like, there's going to be something else available for me and for her because we just weren't meant to be together. And that's fine. And I think that level of like my, my therapist would say like high engagement, low attachment.

Yeah. Beautiful.

Gave me a sense of peace.

Like, I wasn't like, oh, whatever.

I don't really care about this relationship if it doesn't work out. I was like, no, I'm fully in and fully engaged.

Yeah.

But if you have different values than I do and we're going to be fighting and be in conflict, then that's not the best thing, you know? And, and I'm going to be okay and safe if it doesn't work out.

No matter what.

But I never felt okay or safe if someone didn't love me before. If I could pour into someone and I loved them, but they didn't love me or something. Yeah, I always lived in insecurity and fear and tried to, like, make it always work. Yeah, I think a lot of people do that in relationships.

I think the majority, and that's no slight on anyone, it's just the human predisposition, right? And that's why I just was acknowledging you for a man and the things that you shared and the choices you made as a lead-up and the therapy and all the things that you were committed to, to me speaks volumes about the man you became. So I would assert it wasn't that she was the greatest woman she ever met, you ever met. It was really an extension of you were in the greatest relationship you'd ever been in, which is yourself.

With myself. Yeah, but most of us— what did you say? We are in relationships, but we're not in relationship.

Yeah, we're in a relationship, the form, but not in relationship, the frequency.

Yeah. What does someone need to— if someone wants to create the most beautiful love life that they've ever had, what type of relationship do they need to have with themselves first before they can create that in a relationship with someone else?

Ooh, what a beautiful question. I mean, in the simplest terms, it's the most profound capital-A acceptance of self, right? Love is an all-embracing experience. There's no agenda with love. Now, there's different forms. I talk about masculine and feminine. I think feminine is much more unconditional, like the child, which— congrats again on becoming a dad. Like, you know, as the babies grow and they start to stumble and fall or even fail at school or have their first heartbreak, typically the Mom's the first one that they will go to because that represents unconditional love, right? There's an all-pervasive acceptance of whoever you are, whatever you're expressing. I think that's why women are incredible friends, right? Because a girlfriend can just lose it and her friend gets it. I think this is where men tend to be horrific listeners, right? Because they want to fix it. And so after the fact, then you come to the dad maybe as a child, and then that's like, okay, well now you feel held, seen, and heard, with the 3 qualities I say every human being And then the dad can bring in the discipline and the understanding and the analysis of like, well, you know, your girl was riding her bike for the first time. She's five and she fell off, and you know, it's got a boo boo, and she's bleeding a little bit, a little scuff on her knee, and mom takes care of it and cleans it up, and then she comes to you, and you can go back out there and give her the courage and help her understand what this speed and da da da, you know, and all the analytics, right? So I think in order to get to that place, we we kind of have to embody both masculine and feminine, right? Which is to have the part of us. that allows all of us— and I always say, like, what better backdrop against what to learn, what to feel love and learn love, than the imperfection of our own humanity? Right? Like, which human doesn't like or love the parts of themselves that they get compliments on, or that they know they've got great skin, great hair, great, you know, boobs, great butt, great whatever it is, right? It's like, yes, but then they see the cellulite or the crooked nose or the whatever, rugby ears with guys I used to grow up with at school. And, you know, it's like that, that's the real— that's the treasure of where I developed love, you know. And I say true love is learning to embrace all parts of you, including the part of you that feels unlovable.

That's it right there.

And that's the precursor to a great relationship, because if I'm fully okay with me, then I can extend that to others. If I'm not, then I'm only going to find fault with those that I meet.

So if we live in a state of shame, guilt, Or not enoughness, how hard is it to create amazing love in a relationship with someone else?

I don't know if it's how hard, I would just say it's impossible.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah, I would say it's impossible. 'Cause it wouldn't be real love, it would be compensatory love. It would be out of fear.

Formative also in a sense, right?

It's strategic, right? Meaning, so if I—

Survival love.

Yes, which therefore isn't love.

Don't leave me, stay with me, what do I need to do so that you love me or whatever, right?

Yeah, which is dependency. Which is human. And I have all the compassion. Like, again, one of my quotes, you can't be held accountable for that which you're oblivious to, which breeds compassion.

Yes.

So everyone— we could walk outside right now and probably see someone who's smoking a cigarette. And we could easily, as a human being, with today's technology, the warning packs from the government that's been on cigarettes for 3, 4 decades, everyone knows that smoking is not great. It's not a wise choice. But if we went over to that person, you know smoking is bad. You think they don't know that? But the shame and guilt that that conversation and that comment would elicit is the precursor to the smoking that they're already doing. And that's why I think I've helped so many people with addictions of whatever kind where they're like, oh, I have a drinking problem, or I have a cocaine problem. I'm like, no, no, you don't. And they're like, well, what do you mean? I say, you're actually quite masterful at drinking. It's not a problem at all. It's a solution. You're really good at it, right?

It's a strategy, right?

Yeah.

For the deeper problem, which is the relationship you have with yourself, which is founded in self-hatred, or I'm a bad person, which creates suffering from which Every mammal is trying to escape.

We create relief, and this is your relief from the suffering.

Exactly.

Interesting. Do you feel like most people are suffering in the world today? Um, like internal suffering, not from their environment or war or like abuse, but like internal suffering?

I would assert it is the prerogative of every human being who's incarnated into this dimension to suffer. And that is the access point to why we're here, to liberate ourselves from the constraints with which I assert we arrive. That's a much headier conversation. But yeah, I don't know many humans who don't suffer. I don't know any actually.

On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most extreme, 1 being the least amount, how much suffering do you experience on a day-to-day?

Day-to-day, I'd say less than 1.

Yeah.

Less than 1.

So you have a little bit of suffering.

Periodically. And the funny thing is, I just shot a documentary the other day and someone was talking about my work and how it brings freedom, love, and possibility being the main pillars of my work, which is really, without sounding too highfalutin, it's sort of awakening enlightenment, where there's this experience of heaven on earth. And she said, your work has touched me, and I get stopped, as I'm sure you do, by so many people nowadays, and like, you changed my life, you saved my life, and really meaningful, and it's very humbling for me as a kid orphan from a small village in England.

Yeah.

And she said, your work really has the potential to create this utopian experience for humanity. And she said, what do you think that would be like for the world, you know, if we really lived in heaven on earth? And I've never had this answer before because I don't think I've had the question posed quite like that. But I laughed and I said, it almost sounds kind of boring.

There's no challenge. There's no conflict.

I'm like, damn it, I'm fucking up the whole system. I'm giving everyone complete freedom. So no, I, I, I kind of enjoy it to a certain degree now that of course it's not my sort of main event of my life, whereas before, loss, fear, inadequacies, not enough, they were all present. And now it's become— I often say, these bigger questions of life, what's the meaning of life, I think is a relatively easy question. It's like whatever your brain is wired to make it mean, right? We all live in our own universe to some degree. I'm not saying that we don't share the same objective world, but we're always gonna see through the lens of what we see. We don't look through our eyes, we look through our perspective. And so we see the cognitive bias of how we're wired. Then I say the purpose of life really is to break free from our constraints, right? It's the ultimate sort of cosmic Houdini. You know, we're trapped in our own straitjackets of our insecurities, inadequacies, and scarcities, and we get the opportunity to break through. That's such the accomplishment, like conquering our own hell to step into heaven. Or as I say, heaven is a place on earth, you just have to go through hell to get there.

Mm-hmm.

then the purpose of life— or no, that was the purpose— the opportunity of life is then to help bring the same to others. So I feel like I'm very much in the season of my opportunity.

So there's kind of 3 stages. What was the first one?

Is the meaning.

The meaning?

Is that we grapple with that, right? Like, this is wrong or right beliefs, dogma, you know, the religious wars that have plagued and killed millions over this, you know, asinine, oh, well, I believe in this God, you believe in the other God, so we'll kill you.

And then the purpose?

is to break free from the constraints with which we arrive.

To create freedom, essentially, right?

To discover our own true nature. Namaste. The divine in me recognizes the divine in you. Awakening, enlightenment, whatever you call it. To realize that I am the kingdom of the Lord. The Buddha is who I am at my core. As I talk about this 2.0 world is what I'm bringing, right? The 2.0 essence of who you are as a soul experiencing yourself through the lens of a human.

Yes.

So that's where I become misidentified with the human as suffering, re-identified With the essence of who I am is liberation, and then the opportunity is to extend that to others. And I feel that that's the season.

I think that's kind of where we're both at right now as well.

Totally.

And that's why there's so much simpatico.

Both went through a lot of hell, man. A lot of suffering.

Boy, are we enjoying fucking heaven right now?

It's so nice, man.

Dip my toe back in hell every now and again. Just something relates to people.

Okay, but don't want to go there.

Yeah, don't want to stay.

But but a lot of people try to change their life through willpower. It sounds like.

Yeah.

It's like okay, I'm gonna will myself to. changing habits or changing like a positive mindset. But if you are stuck with a wiring, or a subconscious mind, or nervous system that is still stuck in a past trauma or past belief, or past identity, yeah, why will willpower not work?

Beautiful question. I hope I can sum it up quite quickly and succinctly for people. So willpower is an aspect of the ego based in survival. So I make a distinction, I love to just sort of use language to help people unpack things. So willpower is based in the energy of force. Even if you look at it anatomically, force physiologically is eventually gonna create lactic acid. It's not an efficient energy system, right?

It's not sustainable.

Totally.

It's not renewable, it's not reusable.

No, you're gonna collapse, right? Which is what happens when we're coming from ego. You hit your head up against the wall, you go to work in a job you don't love, you're in a relationship and fuck it, right? And then the second one is power. Like I always say, like with my athletes, I always, which I know you've got a lot of background in, I'll ask them to say, I'm forceful. And I want them to feel that. How does that come across? If you are competing at whatever your chosen sport is, and you're coming from a forceful place, describe that. They're like, "I feel tense. I'm pushing hard. I'm not in flow." Da da da. And I'm trying to make things happen. And then I said, "You're powerful." And they're like, "Wow! I just feel so at peace." Right? So they're the distinctions. But to answer the question directly, why it doesn't work is I say you can use force to temporarily override habits. That's all that force is doing. Willpower, you're inspired by someone, you go to a coach, you talk to a therapist, you watch something on TV, listen hopefully to many of your shows that are inspiring, and they're like, you know what, fuck it, this is my month, I'm going to get in shape. Even the beginning of the year, right? The misnomer that January's the time that I should get in shape. I mean, it's all just made up. It's ridiculous. But most people cancel their membership in February. The stats speak for themselves. So you can use force to temporarily override habit. But you can never violate identity. When people get that, like, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy of your own programming.

So how do we shift from the old self, the old identity that has strategically helped us get to where we are? Yeah, helped us survive. These strategies have served us in certain ways to survive, to get to a certain level.

Yeah.

Then eventually, we all figure out that, okay, that level has limits. And so how do we shift an old identity into a new identity if it's not willpower?

One word: death.

Kill the ego?

Yeah, it's death. I mean, it's really the ultimate metamorphosis.

Without physically dying.

No. Yeah, well, no, in a way, right? Like, and this is a powerful distinction for people to understand. Death— I love talking about death. Like, I studied much of the Eastern philosophy There's a book called, or books called, the Upanishads, which is sort of this spoken distillation over generations, the orators, the gurus that would pass on through spoken word these different powerful distinctions, right? So there's a group of books called the Upanishads, and there's one called the Katha, K-A-T-H-A, if anyone wants to read it, and where this little boy goes to talk to the death god, or the god of death, to discover what is this thing. And he talks about the only way to be free of death is to die to the idea of death itself.

Mm-hmm.

And so again, we get poetic, and it's really the eternal nature, I would assert, is who we are. Form comes and goes. We've been talking for, well, an hour and a half before, which is beautiful, and 20 minutes maybe on air. But in that period, we're not the same physical person, 'cause millions, millions of cells have died, and to the degree that our cells are able to replicate without any kind of comp— compensations or compromise, we stay young. This is the whole world of longevity, right? Like in telomeres and, you know, real cell replication, if you really understand it, is without the context of we have an arc of existence. If, if that wasn't there with telomeres or whatever is really sort of the trigger switch for us to eventually leave this paradigm, then cell replication means you sort of live forever, right? Which is what longevity experts are trying to tap into. And funnily enough, that's really what happens to a cancerous cell, right? It sort of replicates perfectly and then it overtakes. And we can get into that. But I think cells that are in that state are living in a hostile environment. So that's physiologically for me the quintessential expression of survival is a cell that's like, I'm out of here, I've got to do my own thing, which is no different than a kid that runs away from home in a hostile environment.

Yes.

So if you look at it physiologically. But to come back to death, really what I'm talking about is the death of identity, which is based in linguistics. It's the death of the idea of yourself, or as I say, the only way to stay really alive is to constantly die to previous iterations of yourself. So to overcome identity is to—

How do we do that?

Step 1, awareness. Carl Jung, great quote, until you make the unconscious conscious, it will drive your life and you'll call it fate. So when it's like, oh, I knew that would happen, too good to be true, I knew it wouldn't last, right? As though it happened to us, not realizing our programming is the precursor to the unfolding of the manifest world. So without fault, and I said, you can't be held accountable for that which you're oblivious to, that breeds compassion. It's like, oh, by virtue of my conditioning, I think, feel, act, and then create the life that is now what I see on the screen that I'm trying to adjust without realizing the projection room is behind me and the 35mm screen, which is my— or the film is my subconscious, which is informing the way I see things.

So based on the programming that I've had for my whole life.

And even prior, you know, I believe we arrive with these constraints. So it's through awareness. 2 main buckets of my work: awareness— bring the unconscious conscious. Oh my God, 30 years I thought I wasn't enough because my brother was a better athlete, my, my sister was a greater academic, and I always noticed that they got the attention. I felt like I was less than, and my less than has informed my compensation patterns or my resignation. And it's fascinating in the ego. I realized— started my work as these 10 primal prisons where We're not something. I'm not enough. I'm not loved. I'm not safe. I'm not worthy, right? When we're not something positive, the compensation is do more of that. If I'm not loved, what am I going to do? Try and become lovable. But there's a shadow side that came into my work maybe a decade ago. I was like, how come I'm talking to thousands of people and some of their conditions seem so much more macabre and dark and destructive? And I realized that there is a statement where I am something negative. So the antithesis of I'm not good enough, which would lead to the compensation of the perfectionism, the people pleasing, the hard working, the guy who's got the corner office and he's a C-suite executive but still dabbles with porn or drugs or is on his second marriage and unhappy and has anxiety. The darker side is I am bad. And when we are something negative, it's self-fulfilling. So we have to bring, first of all, these codes unconscious conscious. Then the second step is to investigate the validity of that. Is it a truth? And this is the, I'd say, proprietary part of my work. If I cut Lewis open and I say, is it true that you're not good enough? Born in Ohio, am I going to find a manufacturing label that says, Lewis, born in Ohio, I'm not good enough? No, you kind of scoff. Of course you're not going to find that. OK, but it's a reality.

But it's a belief that we— I might have believed that for a long time, that I'm not lovable or I'm a bad kid or whatever.

Yeah, and that would have informed the choices. Now, you've obviously taken, I would assert, the strategic compensation route, or the success, the joy, the work, the beautiful wife, the kids, what you've created here, which is phenomenal, right? But nonetheless, I mean, I now know, having spoken to you for 90 minutes before, you've done so much work that you may equally, like me, be sort of on the 0 to 1 level of suffering, right? And get occasional blip of—

But for years, it was— coming from a place of proving that I'm enough. So let me go accomplish, achieve, succeed, build based on a lack of not feeling good enough. But when I did that for, I don't know, 7, 8, 10 years and it was still never enough, I was like— and then it came to an awareness moment of like, okay, it doesn't matter how much money or success or whatever I have, I still don't feel good enough. And I still have anger, resentment, rage inside of me. Yeah, beautiful.

Beautiful.

You know, so yeah, the strategy works to accomplish something, but it didn't help me feel peace.

No.

And I think all we want at the end of the day is to feel like we're enough and feel we're lovable and we have peace inside of us.

Yeah.

It doesn't mean we're not going to have challenges and things to, like, overcome, but in our emotional and psychological and identity level, are we enough?

Yeah.

And I never felt that. For a long time, until I was about 30.

Yeah, which is a transitional period we all go through, Saturn return, without getting into astrology. So I love that you saw that. So that's bringing the unconscious conscious, investigating the validity of it, or through your own wherewithal, meditation, realizing, wait a minute, I'm trying this. It's sort of like the definition of addiction I use: you can never get enough of something that almost works. Yeah, it's the hungry ghost, right? If you're being informed by I'm not enough, and then you develop your patterns of proving harder, work, whatever it is, you're actually being informed by something that can't be satiated. That's an addiction. Ultimate addiction is the idea of ourself, as I tell people.

Yeah.

So that's why it's never— I can work with, I think, over 20 billionaires, you know, and you might think they're successful, but they're not. To me, true success, the new form of success, is what you just said: peace. To be okay with whatever, not to be at the effect of life. And it reminds me of one of my favorite quotes. Krishnamurti was one of my first teachers. dead, but like from his writings, he was often asked, how come you're just so at peace? You seem totally unaffected by life. You know, he would do satsangs and have his ashram and people would come and sit and he would say, or his expression was, this is my secret. I don't mind what happens.

Mm-hmm. Whatever happens is going to be.

And that's peace.

And I don't need to be attached to an expectation that I wanted to happen that did or didn't happen, or resentful that I didn't get something and someone else did.

Yeah.

Why are we so conditioned to react to everything?

Yeah.

From everything in life.

Everything.

Yeah.

Instead of be okay with whatever happens, even if it's through the lens of a horrendous thing.

Yeah.

Or your interpretation of this is a horrendous or bad thing.

Yeah.

Why do so many people react from that space versus have peace with what is.

Because that's the opportunity of the game is that, you know, it's one of my favorite quotes that gets shared the most is that life will present you with people and circumstances to reveal where you're not free. That's why we're here.

So true.

And that's why, man, isn't that powerful?

So true. I mean, is there— where in your life right now has life revealed where you're not It's been a minute.

I mean, even on the back of the retreat, it's kind of funny. We were talking about this before, and I'm always happy to share anything. I'm an open book. I have nothing to hide. And during the course of the retreat, day 2, a guy stands up and he shared, he said, I just want to point out who this guy is on stage. I don't think many of you realize. They're all here. They've flown across the world. They've spent money that they probably have you know, grappled to put together in ways that they're really committed to the work. And it means a lot to me. I think you probably experienced this. As much as my star has risen, I would say commensurate with that is my humility, right? Like, I've gone the other way. I was probably more cocky when I was insecure. Now I'm like, I'm just so flattered when anyone stops me and says thank you. So I stood on the stage, never spoken to this guy. He's been in my mastermind. And he said, I don't know if you understand. He said, I'm in finance. I've done the math. I want you all to realize how much this guy cares because he's pouring his heart and soul out helping you transform lives on stage, live, holding space for people who've been abused, hit, sexually assaulted, uh, with all the care in the world, and he's losing money on this event. I just started crying. And so I would say there's a component, and I'm sure you can relate to this as a leader, that, you know, I don't I'm not particularly religious. I think that's part of your background, and I love pulling tenets from powerful dogmas and stories and great leaders before us. And I love the expression Jesus said, forgive them, Lord, they know not what they do.

Mm-hmm.

And so sometimes I realize I have a gift that I can't even explain, but I'm grateful for. I feel like the luckiest man alive to be able to do what I do. But at times it means that people can't see what I see. You know, there's the expression of talent can hit a target no one else can hit. Genius can hit a target no one else can see.

And it's what's the target you're trying to hit?

For me, there's no—it's no more trying for me. Like I'm hitting a target no one can see. That's the gift, right? Like people like how can you change someone's life so quickly? Someone you've never met. They stand up in a live. They talk about an eating disorder that started with sexual abuse, and now they're da da da da.

That's your gift. Yeah. Yeah.

But what I realize is there's still the human part of me, which I love, is that sometimes for that reason, I don't get seen in a way that is—

Oh, because people can't see it.

Right.

I mean, they see it, but they don't understand it.

There's applause, like how many people love you? Millions, millions, millions. And now I'm starting to reach similar numbers.

So you don't feel seen even though you're impacting so many people?

Sometimes. But I do feel like—

When he stood up, he saw you.

He saw a part of me that no one else addresses. Yeah. Because there's an assumption, right? I'm sure you had this now. Maybe early on it was more meaningful where it's like, "Oh, Lewis Howes, he's fine. Like he's got tons of money," and there's this assumption. He has no problems or whatever. Yeah, exactly. And so that really hit me in a way that yeah, yeah.

It's like the little boy came out. Yeah, yeah.

Where for a minute, rather than me carrying the world, which is a is an it's an honor. It's you know to feel charged with the fact that I can authentically say, I know I can shift the course of humanity. You know, that's not sort of a small project. It's like, oh, that's cute. You know, it's like a real calling. But then to see, wow, a man stood up and held me and it obviously moved you. I can see that, right? That's really beautiful.

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Well, it does, because I, you know, when you went, we were talking for 90 minutes. I think about my wife because you went up and, you know, used the restroom right before we came on here. And I just checked my texts and she texted me and she does beautiful things like this. You know, the thing you said, we all want to be held, seen, and heard. Yeah. And she just texted me like, thank you so much for the life you've given us. And it's like—

That would, that would— immediate waterworks.

So when I was— when you said this about the guy, I just started thinking about that text for a moment and it made me feel emotional.

Dude, that's beautiful.

Because I'm like, man, this is essentially what I always wanted in a relationship and never had. Yeah. And I get this all the time now and I never take it for granted. Yeah. I never take, you know, like, yeah. And maybe people do it in the beginning of a relationship and then— but we're 5 years in now and it's been like, it's been a heavy year. 9 months, twins. She was in the hospital twice, emergency room after the kids were born. Ups and downs, like life messy stuff, you know?

Yeah.

And she still shows up in, in showing, showing me that I'm held, seen, and heard. Yeah. In a way that works for her and me. And it's It's such a gift. And again, like you said, that not many people do that in my life. Even my mom is kind of like, you know, what do you get the guy who can buy anything for himself? What do you— you know, exactly. Lewis doesn't need anything, right? No. And it's like you said, as leaders, like we're providing for so many people, whether it be intimate families, extended families, friends, communities. Like we're constantly giving.

Yeah.

And it's a blessing and a gift to be in a position to give to so many people. It's an incredible honor and joy. Like, there's so much good from giving, right?

Yeah.

But sometimes, you know, in that position, everyone can just think, oh, they've got it all figured out, or everything's good, or they don't need the acknowledgment. But it's just as empowering and important to receive it when you're giving so much.

Yeah.

As with the person who maybe is just getting started in their career and they need to be acknowledged as well.

I think even more so, and it's why, you know, it might seem strange, why I love you. You know, it's like it reminds me of Paul Rudd and Jason Segel, I think it is, in I Love You, Man. You know, like that movie.

Yeah.

Like, it's so beautiful. You look at the arc of their relationship, which they capture so— and there is that, you know, that camaraderie that I feel like I've found a brother, you know, in a way. And I just love that that touched you, you know, because it's like I get closer to you, you know, because It's easy for us all to walk around with our ambassador and, you know, it's like how people show up on a first date and you've got your greatest outfit on and you're wearing your favorite cologne or, you know, shit that you normally— you know, you take people home and your house is tidier than it's ever been for fucking months, you know, because you're trying to impress. And eventually you're going to revert to the old habits, which is really more beautiful because it's you, you know. And it's not to say that we don't all have room for improvement in those arenas, but like, it's authentic, right? And recently all these studies are talking about the the highest expression of a human experience is way beyond love, is authenticity.

Yeah.

And so when I broke down there on stage, I think, of course, people there adore me. I mean, I've got this book that is— I mean, it's like a tomb of like thousands of Polaroids that people have taken at my live events, at retreats. And they write the most— I mean, what a keepsake. I was flicking through those pages with tears of like where people have come from every corner of the globe and So there's endless— this is not like the, the sort of hungry ghosts of my own, like, need for approval. It's not that. I know I'm loved and revered. And I just did a podcast today, and this— the guy who was, um, hosting it, he said the sweetest thing. He said, you know, when I ask people about— I said, I've got Peter Crone on the show today. He said, I get one of two responses: either I fucking love that guy, or who's that? And I said, well, that's a good pool sample, right? It's not like, ah, he's an asshole.

Yeah.

I was like, I can deal with both of those. She said, my girlfriend said the sweetest thing, um, to know Peter Crone is to love him. And it really touched me. And I don't know who that person is. So I think where to come around to your question, where I'm still seeing maybe not quite free, is with the people that are the most meaningful. And why what you just shared touched me, because your wife, which I'm so happy that you found based on what you kindly shared with previous relationships where we have a lot of synergy, um, for her to see you get you, I think is the most price Lewis, a gift that she can— especially a man of your stature.

Incredible man. We don't need much. I mean, we need a lot, but we don't need a lot. You know, it's like, we— yeah, I don't need her to buy me anything, to do anything for me. Like, I'm good. You know, I can take care of myself. But if we're fully invested in a relationship, yeah, if we're fully in relationship with ourselves, and then we're fully vested in a relationship with another person, Yeah, we've committed our lives to them, which is something I've done. That's really the only thing I need. You know, it's like honesty, loyalty, shared values, and being seen, held, and heard.

Isn't that beautiful? I don't need you to like do anything extra special or like buy me new boxer shorts. You know, like, no, I don't need any of this stuff. Hundreds of them. So I think that's where I saw something actually this morning or yesterday, which was, wait, beautiful in that arena, which is I'm adored by millions. But at the same time, it's when it comes to those intimate relationships where you and I so easily step up, we so easily provide.

Yes.

Like somebody in the retreat is like, dude, it's like I'm watching you work with people, it's like you're 15 steps ahead. And it's like, it's crazy. It's like even I studied your work and I— you take a twist that I never saw coming and boom, that person, flood of tears.

Yeah, yeah.

In awakening and whatever epiphany and release the trauma. So I I realized with my team, I put them all up on stage. And this is no slight to them, because some of them might watch this. But I'm acknowledging them for 10, 15 minutes. I go through each of them, how much they mean to me.

Bawling, right? They're bawling.

And then I realized not one of them— they love me, but it doesn't get reciprocated. And there's that little part of me, which I love—

Really?

Yeah.

So you acknowledge each one of them up there, but then they don't do the same for you afterwards?

Not directly. It's more—

Interesting.

They do.

Thank you so much. You're amazing.

There is a lot of that. And listen, don't get me wrong. There's, you know, I have my core team and then I have all of these sort of extensions, people running different cohorts and yeah, all of that. And there's like women who are in tears and thank you, you've changed my life, who work for me now. And I could never have seen my— there's this one woman who came to my first retreat last year. She was the first person I spoke to and she's a mom and she was bawling saying, you know, I almost booked a flight home today. This is the first evening, you know, she hadn't even attended. She's like, because I feel like I'm a horrible, a horrible mom because I left my kids.

To be here.

To be in the States. She was from the UK. And now she's running my 2.0 Mum program.

Wow, that's fun. Wow, cool.

And she wrote in the diary that next day she came in and she stood up and she said, you know, after— because I coached her and helped her see the complete antithesis that she gets to be a better mum by virtue of being here. And the guilt she feels for her kids is, you know, there's multiple facets to that. They learn self-reliance, dependence, independence, you know, they get these new skill sets by the absence of you. But you also become a better mum.

Yeah, you don't want to be absent for 6 months, but it's like, okay, a week is okay. Yeah, 3 days, it's fine.

And she had actually written in her journal after this revelation, she the next morning stood up, took the mic and said, you know, I realized yesterday I changed my life.

Wow. I changed my life.

Yeah. Do you think that's worth, you know, you leaving your kids for a few days? And now she has— I mean, she'd written in that later that day when she'd found this new sense of herself. By next year, I'll be working with Peter Crone. And she showed me yesterday. It was incredible. That's cool. So I think it's more the intimate circle. I know my team loves and adores me. But what I hear from them is what could be improved, what went wrong, where some behaviors weren't right in whatever happened at the retreat. So, I'm the leader. Of course, it's their job, but no one turned around, how are you doing? My back was out. I've been standing for hours. My voice is gone.

Energetically poured into helping everyone heal and hold the space for days.

I mean, a guy's eyes fucking color changed just because of the profound release of trauma. He stood like 3 inches. like, like all the women are like, oh, you know, like this real man occurs, like just out of nowhere from this little boy energy. And I'm like, yeah, that just happened. And then I'm just like, oh yeah, you know, but the pens aren't working and people are worried. I'm like, really?

So that's where you're still not free. Is it wanting to be able to receive that from people or knowing that you will never— because you're a leader? Yeah. The price of leadership is not getting you know, everyone understanding you and seeing you all the time. Like, there's incredible rewards for being a leader in your life.

Endless.

But there is a price for leadership as well, that you won't be understood by everyone. Very few will see and acknowledge it. Yeah. And give you that. Yeah. But what is it that knowing that, hey, I may never get this, the really seen-ness that I'm looking for? When it happens, it's going to be like, wow, it just took me 6 months to finally get someone to say this to me after pouring my life into this. Yeah. Like, what is that for you?

I think it's all the above. I think, you know, meeting you is another form of like inspiration, right? I think we have a myriad of ways that we evolve. I mean, there's traditional learning information, and then I think there's internal insight, like, you know, an understanding as opposed to an understanding of like intuition, insight. And then I think there's inspiration that is like someone like yourself who just love the speed with which we're getting to know each other and to hear and to see you be moved to tears about the text you just kind of shared.

Yeah.

There's a feeling that I know that's part of my future. So really, I always say the last stages of this sort of evolution of our own personality, the hardest qualities to really embody are trust and patience, to know that there's the unfolding, that that's coming. And so to see it with you, given the similarities of our timelines, is that I know there's a woman out there who's going to adore me and all of my imperfections as much as I hold space. It's just to be in the eyes of another and to be seen fully. And I know my team adores me. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, one guy who— he's one of the mentors— he, you know, he said, look, I've done all my acknowledging. I've got like, you know, 20 people I've thanked, you know, plus, and the volunteers. And And so he took the mic and he said, and we just want to say that we're all here just because of you. And you make us feel safe. And it's beautiful, but it's like— and listen, I know my team adores me, but there's no— I know exactly where you're at. Yeah. And so to answer your question—

A lot of people don't have the skill.

Exactly.

I was going to say ability, but everyone has the ability. A lot of people haven't developed the skill of seeing holding space for someone emotionally, energetically, spiritually, because it is probably the most vulnerable thing to do.

Yeah.

To put yourself out there and say, I see you, I acknowledge you.

Yeah.

You know, what you just did there was so powerful and profound. Like, thank you for the gift that you are. Most people don't have the awareness or the skill set.

Yeah.

To say it because it is Scary. It's hard to do.

And I think at an even more subtle, primal level, they're too busy trying to survive.

Of course.

But the power of acknowledgment, if you really understand it, it's a very generous act. I don't think, you know, for people like yourself— and, you know, I work with the best of the best in all walks of life, right? And so I've seen this with my athletes. I've seen this with my VIPs where there's this assumption that they're just good, right? Like, as you said earlier, And yet there's still that innocence of a child, whether it's unreconciled trauma or just the fact that we carry that with us. You don't forget what you went through, even if you've transcended it or integrated it.

Yes.

And so that's where I feel like the ability to acknowledge speaks volumes about somebody's own work to have transcended their own need for recognition or survival. And there's not many people who've gotten to that, right? And so it's not like I'm missing. It's kind of nice even for me. People come to me with all sorts of questions and woes, and I love that. I feel very privileged that I get to hold space and even people—

And serve.

Yeah, yeah. And to serve. And people like— I had a live event a few months ago, and every person who stood up, it's predominantly a female audience, I think, for a number of reasons. I think the female archetype is a little more evolved. They're more intuitive, and they get this work, and they want to be the nurturers. They want to understand. Men are too busy trying to conquer and survive, and they love challenges, and they're out and world and women are more the inner work, right? But these 3 women stood up at my live and every single conversation built upon itself in vulnerability. Like, the first woman stood up and it was so profound in terms of her talking about not having a cycle for 20 years and how that had obviously created so much doubt and judgment and it had stemmed from an eating disorder that she'd developed because she saw once on a TV show these women with eating disorders and they got attention. So she thought, finally, if I stop eating, I'll get attention from the mother who didn't see her. Wow. But that was even preceded by sexual abuse. And this is heavy stuff in front of an audience. And then another woman shares about relationships and love and, you know, the devastation of thinking she was in love with someone. And then the last woman stood up and she said, you know, um, I struggle with orgasms, you know, and this is really having them, and it's impacting my relationships because my boyfriends feel inadequate because I can't have a vaginal orgasm. And then she opened up and said, and I think a lot of it's tied to the fact that I have herpes.

Oh, the shame of that. Yeah, yeah.

The shame, the guilt. And really what I unpacked was one of these primal prisons is that there's something wrong with her, right? Like, fill in the blank. Anyone listening right now, they're going to have their version. They might not have herpes, but they're a little overweight, they've got cellulite, they've got acne, they've got—

They were abandoned, they were abused, there was something.

But the fundamental story that I'm inadequate, there's something wrong with me as a bigger context, right? And then we compensate, hide, prove, disprove. And so, but at the end, this therapist, like a traditional licensed therapist, came up to me and said, I've never seen anyone hold space for such a big group and for 3 women share some of the most vulnerable stories. And you did it with such exquisite elegance. She said, you know, it's inspiring as somebody who has a practice. And, you know, that was a form of acknowledgement that fills my bucket. You know, it's like a thank you.

And so someone who knows how hard that is to do, who's like a practitioner as well.

Yeah. So it does show up, and I am open to receiving that. And I think it's also incumbent upon us, you and I, to share vulnerability. Like, when am I with athletes? You and I go back to the statement of we can definitely hit targets that is based on talent, but we also hit targets others don't see. And I think it's that ability to acknowledge, to see, to be the 15 steps ahead. And for that, I'm grateful. And the forgive them, Lord, they know not what they do, you know, he's even having a chat our AI friends out there in the world. And, you know, like, like, what is this? I love to dissect, you know, what am I missing or what am I— and he said, it's like a concert pianist, you know, who's practiced for 30 years and then he doesn't have anyone who can play music as beautifully for him, you know. And it's like, it's, it's—

Yeah, it's like no one could do what he wants them to do.

And it's not their fault. It's just where they're at. And you're going to go through this in the arc of your beautiful journey now as a dad, is that You're going to see the potentiality. And I think we both have fallen in that trap of a girlfriend who we saw the potential of, wanted to usher—

Yeah, that was my wound for 20 years. Different. And I just kept repeating it in different women.

Yeah. And so to be able to have that humility and also, I think, to some degree, to share our needs, which you've done a great job, it sounds like, with Martha. And what do we both want? What are we— of course, what are we aligned on with our values? But where can I show vulnerability, what I need? You know, I think we've become so self-sufficient that it's almost become our downfall.

Right.

And early on in my relationship with Martha, I've said this many times here on the show, but I, you know, she asked me a question, the old what are your priorities question, you know, every woman asks a guy at some point like, hey, what are your priorities in life and in this relationship? And I told her, are you sure you want the truth? Because if I tell you the honest truth, You're not going to want to be with me, or you're going to be upset, or you're going to cry or something, because this is what's happened to me in the past. Yeah. No woman wanted to hear what I had to say, or they were, they were hurt by it.

Yeah. Or overwhelmed.

Overwhelmed by it, right? Yeah. She said, you know, then now she got worried. She's like, what do you mean? What's going to happen? You know, what are you— is this some dark thing or something?

I go, no. I've got 6 dead people in my basement.

But I was like, my, you know, my priorities When I say them to people, it sounds really selfish. And I just don't think you're going to be— you're not going to want to be with me after this. Yeah. So, you know, I was actually getting sad before I said it because I was like, man, this has been a great few months. But yeah, it's like it's over, probably.

Well, courage.

And she was like, no, I want to hear it. Let's, you know, I said, okay, my number one priority in our relationship will never be you. And I don't know any woman that doesn't want to hear— that wants to hear from the man that they're in a relationship with that they are not number one. Yeah. And I said, my number one priority is, is going to always be my health, or at least I want it to be my health physically, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically.

Amazing.

I want to have great health. Yeah. To serve my number 2 priority, which is still not you. And no woman doesn't want to be number one or number 2. And I said, my number 2 priority, at least at this season of my life, is my mission. What I believe is my purpose, my mission from God, or my calling. And that is to impact humanity in the way that I do it. Yeah. And I don't know how long I'm going to be driven to do this. Maybe it's a year, maybe it's 20 years. I don't know. But this is the current mission and calling that I'm on.

Yeah.

And if I feel pulled away from my mission, I'm going to be resentful and unhappy. And I'm not going to be able to give my best to my number 3 priority, which will be my intimate relationship with you if we're choosing to be together.

Right.

And I said, if you can accept that my priority is to make sure I'm healthy as a human being, physically, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, that I just give myself time to be healthy.

Yeah.

That if you accept that I'm a driven human being to serve humanity the way that I uniquely do it, Yeah. And you're not trying to pull me away from that, then you will feel like the number one priority in my life.

Yeah.

You'll feel like number one because I'm going to always try to be at my best, healthy emotionally. I'm going to be present with you. I'm going to give to you abundantly.

Yeah.

When I'm with you, you're going to feel so loved, seen, held, and heard.

Yeah.

But if I'm not healthy and I'm not on purpose, I'm not going to be good to you.

Yeah.

And so— and she was like, I love it. You know, right away she was like, I love it because I've never been with a man who had a purpose. Yeah, they always made me their purpose. Yeah. And I was like, no, what's the thing you're meant to do in this world? Yeah, yeah. And she always attracted men who lacked purpose. And so it lined up. I was like, okay, as long as you accept that. Yeah, yeah. And again, it doesn't mean like you're last on the totem pole. Like, no, no, no, no. I'm giving you my life. I'm committing to you. I'm all in. Yeah. But just don't pull me away from my mission and let me work out. It's like, that's it.

It's, it's so beautiful. And again, you know, I don't want to sound like we're starting some bromance, but like, well, I'm so glad that we're having this conversation and we've connected in the way that we have. Um, but it's rare for me to, to listen to another man, you know, and I don't mean that in some sort of superior way where I can be inspired and even go, you know, I'm going to borrow that. But it's also beautiful how it correlates to what I teach, which is health, wealth, and relationships. Yeah, right. In that order. Yeah. Which is what you've just basically said, right? Like health, mission, wealth, and wealth in all arenas, like your contribution to society and then relationships. And I would assert the absence of those, like if you're not healthy and you're not in your purpose and actually you don't have a partner, you have a mother, right? Exactly.

And so, or father or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And you're dependent on someone else. Right. It's like you're codependent, I guess, like on them providing for you to survive.

Yeah. No, it's beautiful. And I really appreciate you sharing that. And it gives me great context and hope, you know, not that I was ever lacking it, but it's sort of given my track record and I've had the most beautiful partners. I'm so grateful. But then—

I don't blame any of the people I was with, but I chose partners that needed to feel I would— they were number one at all times, 24/7. No matter what, any type of breakdown, yeah, even if it was just the littlest thing, I needed to be there. Otherwise, I didn't love them.

If you listen to what you just said, right, if you look at the energy of it, it's quite interesting because especially now as a dad, that really is the experience for the child, right? Like they stop everything. They are the number one now. Yes. Based on what you shared, maybe Martha steps in and that's more her role. But even you, if you're in the place and the kid, da da da, you're there. Boom. Yeah, I'm there.

And so that energy, if that's their child, they're not, you know, a child in a 30-year-old, you know, body. Yeah, they're a child in a 9-month-old body. And so the context, the role and responsibility is to serve that child for survival.

Yeah.

But the challenge is most, most of us, myself included, are running on a child wound programming in adult bodies.

Yeah.

And we stay stuck in that survival strategy with adult partnerships. Yeah, but we're both children in a sense.

Yeah. And this is why I'm so excited. I announced with my— again, the group that I was with, you know, this whole context of 2.0 World, this new entire paradigm for people like, you know, this new operating system that I'm sort of channeling. And like within that, there's all these specialties, like there's going to be 2.0 Mom, 2.0 Dad, 2.0 Athlete, 2.0 Leader. Like, what is it to be this this new type of human, you know. And it's just such a joy. Like, the guy I helped transform on stage, like, he literally went from a boy to a man in a split second as he realized the stories he'd been living in that were keeping him scared, dependent. And basically, he'd cut off his mom, and he thought he had, quote unquote, by removing— which a lot of people do— if I remove the person, I'll be okay. But the wound is within you, not there, right? Hatred is a curved blade, as Shakespeare said.

Hatred is a what? Curved Hatred is a curved blade. Yeah.

Like, so we hate someone, it's like saying, I drink the poison hoping it will affect them.

Yeah. Yeah. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode.

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A beautiful lesson. I'm not saying everyone do this, But a beautiful lesson I learned in a previous relationship was I really wanted to leave because it was just getting— it was just not good. And I really wanted to leave because I was like, I just want to have relief. I want to be pain-free. I don't want to suffer anymore. And my therapist at the time was like, you can like do whatever you want. Yeah, this is your life, your journey. I'm not telling you stay or go.

Yeah.

But I recommend creating boundaries and peace within the relationship, within yourself. Yeah. When there's a reaction from your partner, when there's a breakdown, when there's a silent treatment, whatever the strategies that she's doing, you learning to feel safe within yourself. Yeah. In that environment, instead of running away or removing yourself or however you want to call it. Yeah. And I was so resistant to that because I just wanted relief. Yeah. I just wanted to get out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I'm so glad I did because I learned how to be peace under chaotic environments.

Yeah.

Instead of stressed and reactive and, okay, I need my space and this and this. But no, I'm going to create the space within me. Now, obviously, it's— if it gets dangerous, that's a different thing. But if it's just emotionally stressful, how can you stay in peace? Now, if someone's watching or listening and there's some domestic stuff like Get out of there. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It was more of an emotional, psychological response that I was living in fear.

Yeah, it's so powerful. It reminds me of like really when I started my journey. It's— it brings a smile to my face because of what transpired, which I'll share. But I was, you know, sitting in a yoga studio with 20 people that I was talking to versus thousands now in an auditorium. And I think some of them probably showed up thinking they had a yoga class and they weren't even coming to listen to me. But I was talking about relationships, and I made a very similar distinction to your obviously very wise therapist. I said, the only time to really break up a relationship powerfully is when you're both happy with each other.

Yeah. Or at peace in it, I guess. Either one. Yeah. Yeah. I still wasn't happy with her.

Bedfellows.

But I was happy with myself.

Is more accurate. I was still early in my career, so I chose different words. Yes. As I shared that, I was sort of halfway through, and my friend who was in town from New York— it was here in LA— she walked out about 5 minutes earlier after I'd said that. You know, and she'd come to support, and I was like, where's she going? Anyway, I carried on. And then she called me like an hour or so after I'd finished and said, you know, I felt so bad leaving. But she said, what you said touched me so much that I was in a relationship, and at that moment we were in a good place together, but I knew it wasn't the relationship. So I wanted to take the opportunity to be with them in a place of peace and say, I love you, I thank you, but I'm moving on.

Wow.

And it was so beautiful. So otherwise, yeah, we tend to drag those patterns into the next, you know, wherever you are, wherever you go, there you are, you know.

Yeah. And they may not respond with peace. You know, if you're ending a relationship, most people are not going to be aware or conscious enough to be like, okay, I love you.

Thank you so much. You have a great life too. Yeah. Yeah. You know, no, sadly doesn't typically work that way. But for your evolution.

Yes. You know, I think it's important.

And, and again, I always come to these quotes that come through me. I say true security is the absence of the need for external security.

Yeah, it's true.

And that's peace, right? Like, I don't need circumstances to be a certain way in order for me to be okay. But that takes a very advanced state of mind that I'm not at the effect of life anymore.

And it's accepting whatever will be afterwards. Like, it's learning to accept— like, you may not enjoy it, but accepting this is how they're going to react or respond or whatever, you know.

This is my secret. I don't mind what happens. And I created an addition to that, you know, just, you know, Krishnamurti, he's a legend, but You know, that was really for me, it gave me this sense of freedom from. I play with freedom obviously a lot, and I say freedom from is, you know, sort of this monastic kind of view of life where I'm not at the effect, I'm at peace no matter what. And that's powerful. I mean, relative to most people, reaction, as you said, it's all reaction, reaction, reaction. Someone cuts you up in traffic, you're like, fuck you, and all the, you know, it's just unconscious reaction is what I call it. But then I was like, okay, that's beautiful. I can get freedom from which is, I don't mind what happens, I'm at peace. Can I be with this, whatever's unfolding? That's an advanced state. But for me, I think in my journey now with some of the questions you were asking earlier of where am I discovering, excuse me, where I'm not free, it's like freedom with, which is freedom with life to have purpose. And as a masculine, like to have direction, right? To have acceptance removes suffering, but to have a sense of commitment gives direction. And so that's really what I'm playing now with, with the masculine, you know.

Do you feel like you're not clear then or something? Or what?

No, I mean, for sure, I was, I was Mr. Chill. Like, nothing really fazed me. Even with girlfriends who got really upset, I would listen compassionately, which itself was a problem for them because I didn't show any reaction. They'd much rather—

They wanted the reaction.

Yeah, they wanted me to get pissed off. And I'd like— I would just understand. I get it. I'd want to work on it. And this thing, you know. But then I was making the joke, that's kind of like talking to somebody who's customer service at British Airways. We're sorry you had a bad flight. That's not going to work with a partner. So that was an evolution for me. But now it's like direction, holding, having a real sense of commitment towards something is real leadership, even in the face of adversity. And I'd say adversity is part of that, right? The things that we've been through. If there aren't any challenges, I often joke, I take one of my great athletes into a gym and I give them 2 1-pound dumbbells. Pump out 10, it's like, what do you get from that? Like nothing, you know? Yeah. So it's really the adversity that creates the man, you know, even though a lot of men try to do everything they can to mitigate suffering or adversity. It's like, no, dive right in, you know?

Yes. You spoke about manifestation for a second earlier, about most people don't understand manifestation or they're doing it wrong. Yeah. What is manifestation and what's the right way to do it?

Um, great question. So I would say manifestation is a word that's attributed to something that the ego thinks it's incumbent upon itself to do, right? And that's really where the ego comes from, right? It's like, okay, I am going to manifest. But to your great question earlier about how do we overcome these deep ingrained programs and conditionings, we can't do it through willpower. I'd say for that reason, manifestation has become a bedfellow with willpower, right? I'm gonna manifest my dream partner, the dream home, yacht. So really, if we look at the mechanics of it, like not being a spiritual teacher but a physicist, your conditioning— if we look at the chain of creation of like the genesis of anything, I would assert that there's consciousness to begin with, and there's subconscious constraints that lead to our conscious thinking built in with our limiting beliefs that create our emotional body, our actions, and our outcome. That is the chain of manifestation. Where most people get stuck is we see experts, teachers, like, do this, don't do that. We're in the realm of action, which is so far downstream. It's like stage 5, right? Like, you know, you can with willpower— okay, the doctor told me this, don't do that, stop eating In-N-Out burgers, or whatever people are doing, I'll bring my cholesterol level down— but you're never actually going to be able to sustain that because you can't violate identity, which is way upstream with your subconscious.

Or you'll always fall back into your programming.

Have to, right? You can't—

So you might be able to get results, but then eventually you fall back into programming.

Yeah, fall in love, you've got all of this new enthusiasm for life, you're like, this is the time, or this is the new year, and I'm going to get it, whatever it is. We get these momentary glimpses of greatness, you know, and it's like, but it can't be sustained because the wiring is like, yeah, that's cute, but wait till we kick in. So manifestation is really understanding that chain. I look at the 3 arenas of time, space, and identity, right? So if manifestation is— it's usually something outside of us. I want to manifest, fill in the blank. It's always based in time because wanting as an energetic creates time, right? Wanting is a future-based proposition. We don't have. If we want, we don't have.

Is it coming now? Is it coming in a year, 10 years? Like, when will it come to me?

Yeah, either way, it's, it's in the future, right? It's not here.

It's something we lack in the moment.

And it's always— that to me is one of the predominant prisons that I talk about, which is our relationship to the present moment, which is the lens of this isn't it. Right? That's the default factory settings there.

What we have now isn't—

It isn't it. But I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I'm working really hard. I've got— I subscribed to this new magazine that's going to help me to whatever, you know, lose 5 pounds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Men's Health, 6-pack abs, how to get them. 3 decades of telling you, you still don't have them, you know. Um, so they're the 3 arenas where there's this misnomer. It's outside of me, uh, it's spaced in time, Right, it's going to take a while and it's incumbent upon me. So they're the big—

I have to do something.

But the doing, if we look at the cascade, subconscious beliefs, feelings, actions, do something, outcomes, right? That's way too late. So true manifestation is really the revelatory process of understanding your wiring, that you are doing nothing but manifesting all day. That's it. All you do as a human is manifest. So it's not like I'm manifesting because of my wiring, and then I, big sort of ego, am going to manifest on top of the manifestation that's happening already.

Something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that's where people are like, oh my God. So manifestation isn't outside of us. It's a frequency that we adopt, and we realize, like, frequency precedes form, as I tell people. Like, in the quantum, we're bringing that which is unmanifest through the chain of creation into the manifest. So manifestation is really that which is based in the way that we're currently wired. So if you want to manifest, you shift your wiring, which leads automatically to different conscious thoughts, different feelings, different actions, and different outcomes. It's not based in time. It's instantaneous. It's a shift. Like the guy— this was—

It happens instantaneously. It might take you time to realize—

To see it.

Yes. But that's because the external world is way more dense, right? Like, that's where I used to transform bodies, which was fun. It's easy. I studied human biology. Physiology. I understand all of the energy cycles. I know background in Pilates, yoga, all of it, whatever.

Calories in, calories out.

But it takes the time. It takes time. I did a live event previous last week prior to my retreat, and this woman is— it's always touching, but she was talking, um, about some of the things she was struggling with in her business and coaching and also relationships. And she thought the problem was that she has Lyme, right? And I said, well, when did that happen? What do you think happened? And she said, well, I remember that 13 years ago, um, I think it came on because of a choice I made that I haven't forgiven myself for. And she openly shared, which was courageous of her, and she had had an abortion. Um, she was very young. It was a scary time. We didn't need to get into the details. And she said for that reason she thinks she's a baby killer.

Wow.

And 13 years later, she's still living in that energy. And so she thinks that Lyme came on, and I kind of talked about the energetics of a compromised system that's lost its integrity, a hostile environment, which is easy for outside forces, whatever they might be, whether you're sick, a disease, a virus, to attack you. You've lost— it's like the building here. If there was a weak spot in the structure, that's where it's going to fall, right? And so we talked about it, there's tears, you know, asking her to see, was she bad because of her choice? Like, is, you know, cutting you open, is this really your identity, or is that just how you feel about yourself? She got relief. And I said, what would become available for you if you didn't carry guilt and shame, if you could be okay with profound acceptance? And what I typically want and what I'm looking for is freedom, peace.

Freedom.

that I could love myself? And she said, I would be someone that a partner could accept, which showed me another side of where she's stuck, that she, with her world, if she's bad, why would anyone love her?

Yeah.

But I said, oh, interesting. I said, well, okay, I'm not denying that. We'll get to that. But let's just stay with you right now. If you could get over the idea that you're a bad person because of what you did, and there's a much powerful distinction about embracing our history, like I explain to people all of your problems are because of memories, right? If you have no memory, you have no problem because you're not being informed by anything.

Your memory is the artifact of your programming.

Which only sustains your identity. We get to be right. The other quote I say, like, being right is a poor man's version of self-worth, right? One of my golfers— I'll come back to her— but like, you know, I tripled his— helped triple his winnings in 2 seasons, which is significant, right? Because he found freedom. But he hadn't had a win. He'd gotten top 5, seconds, thirds, making $3.6 million compared to $900,000. It was significant. And he said, why haven't I won yet? And he said, why don't you caddy for me? And you can see what's happening on the inside of the ropes.

You caddied for him?

He was on the PGA Tour.

You caddied for him?

Yeah.

For one whole weekend?

One whole tournament.

4 days?

Yeah.

Wow. When was this?

Oh, this was way back. This was probably 15 years ago or so.

OK, cool.

When I started a lot of athletes.

Wow.

So it was significant, right? And then I was getting a lot of athletes. I got on a contract with a Major League Baseball team.

And what did you realize then when you're the whole weekend caddying with him?

So that comes back to the point on the girl and the self-fulfilling prophecy is he'd hit the green. I don't know if you're a golfer, and I don't want to bore your audience if they don't play golf. But it was a par 4. He'd hit the green in 2, but he had a long putt, 50 foot, right?

To try to hit a birdie.

Yeah, which is ideal. You want to make the one. Stats of that over 50 foot, it's like 1%. Whatever. But unless he makes 2, we move on and make a par. But he, as I handed him the putter, he said, watch me 3-putt this.

Oh man, he's already, he's already projecting the result he's gonna get.

And the reason that was happening is not him, it's conditioning. It's automatic. He didn't choose that consciously. It's an unconscious reaction to a survival instinct of the fear of making a mistake, which is embarrassing to a professional.

But 3-putt, if he says watch me 3-putt, If he 3-putts it, he's right and he's safe.

Hence, the poor man's version of self-worth.

Yeah, yeah. Even though he's bogeying, which means—

Which you actually don't want from your heart, but you do want from your ego to be right, so you mitigate shame. That's how insidious it is. Isn't that crazy? So anyway, coming back to the woman, which was beautiful. So she said, you know, at least I would be someone that could have a partner, which showed how she felt she didn't deserve that. And so anyway, I picked up on that and said, okay, let's get to that. But really, like, if you realize truly there was nothing wrong with you, you've never done anything wrong— I'm not, again, I'm not mitigating consequence, right? Like, people do stuff. I, I borrowed my dad's car when I was 15 because he'd started to teach me. He was at work one day, and I thought, you know, I'm just going to back it out of the garage because it'll be fun. That's what a 15-year-old does. And I knocked down the fucking garden wall, right? Right. That's consequence.

That's consequence after that.

And I had to, you know, mow the lawn, wash the car, make the money to build it, right? And then I learned responsibility. Was it bad? No, it's exactly what a 15-year-old who's excited to learn to drive should do, right? Like, you know, your girls at some point are going to be screaming, scribbling on the walls, you know, and you seem like a very organized—

Don't project that. Don't project that. Don't program that.

And it's just, you know, that's what we do at different stages. So she got to the place of self-love and acceptance. And I think one of my more popular quotes is, what happened happened. Couldn't have happened any other way because it didn't. And it's a way to really find profound acceptance for all of our behaviors, notwithstanding that consequences can hurt people and we want to be responsible. So she got to that, and then I said about the partnership, "Can you now see that yes, I understand that if you have self-love, which we talked about earlier, is the precursor to really having a profound relationship?" She's like amazing. Da da da. She feels great. Tears, laughter, relief. Everyone claps. Great. We move on, right? And I start talking to someone else, and there's probably another hour of conversation. At some point, she's obviously gotten up. She'd gone to the bathroom, whatever. And so we're done. We wrap. Thank you. Come in. Da da da. Everyone's happy. We move on. And there's ton of people that wait selfies. They want to say thank you. It's beautiful. And she was in line. And she came up to me. And I shit you not. She said, "You know, about ten minutes after we spoke, I had to go to the bathroom." And she said, "When I came out of the bath, herpes went away." Huh?

The herpes went away. That was a different girl. This is the abortion woman. Yes.

I've seen some fucking miracles.

That stuff can happen though.

That can. I literally— I am mad enough. I said to her, because she's living in the world, there's something wrong with me. You understood the energy, right? Like, this girl thinks she's bad, therefore she's open to outside entities, right? And I said to the girl, if you really get that there's nothing wrong with you, even having the energy of, in this case, herpes, herpes has got nowhere to live anymore, and so it will leave your body. The frequency changes, the timelines that I talk about, a future that wasn't previously available to you becomes available because you've shifted frequencies, right? No, that's okay. Okay, sorry, go ahead. So her herpes is gone because she's never had it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But her Lyme was still there.

But no, she was the one with Lyme.

Yeah, this is the one with the Lyme. You're doing great tracking, it's unbelievable. And so she comes out, she comes to me and said, I came out of the bathroom and a guy asked for my number.

Wow.

So the instantaneous— now I don't know that they're going to get married forever, but That she had shifted frequencies.

She felt attractive to someone else too.

She was available. If you're in the world of I'm bad, you're just not available, right?

Your energy is pushing away.

Yeah, you're in a relationship with your own conditioning, which means you can't actually be going back to in a relationship but not in relationship. So that stuff happens quickly. That's manifestation. That's shifting timelines where you adopt— it's like a radio. I love that analogy. It's very simple for people to follow. You know, if it's 105.7 FM is classic rock or whatever, and you want R&B, you have to change frequency. You know that the information, the intel is everywhere. We're surrounded by data. But depending on what you're tuned into will be the precursor to what you manifest. And so, yeah, when you get that, it's—

But you need to shift the identity, the belief around your identity first.

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Yeah. So if you're— if anyone watching or listening right now has some type of negative belief that is connected to their identity, current state.

Yeah.

They have a memory from the past that made them believe that they are bad and wrong. Yeah. Whatever it might be— abuse, abandonment, they cheated, they did something wrong, someone did something wrong to them. Yeah. And they believed They are not lovable. They are bad. They are wrong. They're not enough. And they've held on to that for 10, 20, 30 years. Yeah. How would you coach someone watching or listening right now, no matter what the belief is around I'm not enough? Yeah, I'm not lovable. I'm not worthy. How would you speak to them no matter what the story is on how to uncover that that's not true when they've been their whole life, they've said this is true. Yeah, this is my identity. This is who I am.

Yeah.

How do they pull back the curtain and realize that they can shift into a new identity that is lovable and enough?

Yeah, beautiful question. And it really, I think, speaks volumes about you, the host, the man, you know, who's so committed to helping people. And even at the beginning, when you asked me, you know, what would, what would be the byproduct of what would make this a powerful conversation? And maybe this is that moment where we can— in my response to you is that we We really help nudge the needle from suffering to freedom for millions of people. So it's slippery. It's not impossible, but not many people are walking around thinking they're not enough. It's different thoughts of, I won't get the promotion, I'm not lovable, I'm not going to find someone, I'm not going to get the success that my parents wish I had. Or, you know, it's sort of a— it's typically a subtle step away. But if people can—

Guys always leave me, or I always choose the bad guy, or why, you know, whatever it might be.

Yeah. So we need to do a little subtle reverse engineering. So whatever the circumstances that people are dealing with, as I said, health, wealth, and relationships are the big 3 buckets. Whatever it is that you're dealing with, as best as you can, sit quietly, look at what must be the underlying fear, and it's usually a negation. Like, so someone broke up with you, what does that mean? Like, they broke up, inherently no suffering. The story that's associated with it is, you know, I'm not attractive enough, I'm not good enough, I'm not lovable, I'm not funny enough, I'm not successful enough, something I'm not. Right? The darker side is, I'm a horrible person, I am trash, or whatever. So try and find that. If you could write it down, that would help, right? To get it out of our head.

That belief that you have the interpretation around it.

Yeah. And the way I phrase it, it's not so much a belief. Beliefs belong to the you that you are for yourself, is the way I phrase it. It's, it's not something you believe, it's the you that you are that has that belief. That's the subconscious foundation of the building. We see the building, you see your conscious thoughts of Well, nothing good's ever happening to me. I knew it was too good to be true. Those statements belong to the deeper you, which is, "I'm a loser. No one loves me," right? And that will go. That will be associated with something from their childhood. If you can locate that, even more powerful. Well, like I said earlier, my brother was always the better athlete. My sister was the better academic. So I've always felt like I was less than. I'm the black sheep. Da da da. Whatever the story. So we're looking for that piece of code, the programming. So if you can find that. This next step is now we want to investigate the validity of that statement. The way I do it, my sort of proprietary method, if I cut you open, Tom, Danielle, Sally, Bill, whoever's listening, am I going to find a physical manufacturing label that says, in your case, Lewis, born in Ohio, I'm not good enough? Now sit with it, right? Like, really, it's important to see the physical. No, we're going to find bone and tissue and blood. We're not going to find a label that says you're a loser, you're not loved.

No.

Okay, great. So it's not part of your hardware. That's a distinction. Where does it live? Well, it's in my head. It's what I've thought. It's what I believe. It's what my parents said. Like, how many kids— it so breaks my heart— oh, you were a mistake, or your father wanted a boy and it was a girl. You know, that's a lot of the trans stuff where somebody's trying to become somebody different, and, you know, like stuff like that. Or not even that, where people are cutting themselves, they abuse themselves because they think that who they are wrong, a mistake, like very heavy stuff, right? Fundamentally trying to get out of their own skin.

So it's in their mind, or is it more in their nervous system?

Both. So not mind, nervous system, one and the same thing, right? Brain being the biggest extension of that. Now, this is a powerful distinction. I don't want to overwhelm people. This is the brain. When I say, where's your mind? Most people go here. No, that's the brain. The mind is something around us. It's a world we live in. So just like we're in this building, it's obviously a beautiful building. But if it had mold in the drywall, We're at the effect of that mold because we live inside of it, right? And depending on your constitution, if you're built like an ox, you'll get away with it. If you're very sensitive and you have a respiratory, like, compromise in your genes, it's going to impact you more.

Yeah.

But if you walk around 24/7, which everyone does, in the state of mind— and your state of mind at the deepest level is, which it is because you're human, I'm not something— then you are, to whatever degree, acquiescing to that Destructing yourself, manifesting from that state. Hence, you see, that's the manifestation chain. So we want to discover that it's not part of your hardware, it's not a label, but it is the mind and the world that you live in, which is this fundamental, what I call 1.0 operating system.

And it's not a belief.

No, it's before the belief.

It's an identity. It's an identity. So identity is first.

Identity has beliefs. You believe that you are tied to the identity. Yeah, correct. They're synonymous. They're extensions downstream. Then the beliefs become the thoughts that create the emotions that create the actions that create the outcomes. That's the cascade.

So, but it's— first thing is identity. Is there anything before that?

Consciousness.

Consciousness, then your individual identity.

Yeah.

Then your beliefs.

Yeah.

Then your thoughts, feelings, emotions, actions, or behaviors.

And then people just get that, change their life. So when we see an expert, specialist, you know, and again, there's amazing people out there who want to help. Typically, they find— they, they, they traffic in the domain of action and behavior. Do this, don't do that. Oh, okay, you know, you've got high cholesterol, so you have to do this. Like, a high cholesterol will have all sorts of energetic connotations to the way that people are holding on to something because they've got trauma that they haven't accepted or released. And so there's an emotional component, right?

Yes.

Like, you know, the, the whole sickness psychosomatics, it's a big thing. The autoimmune that people throw in the allopathic world as a label on top of really it's you attacking yourself. Like I said, the hostile environment that most people live in, which is the world of self-betrayal and self-abandonment and I'm a bad person, right? Inadequacy, insecurity, and scarcity. That's informing physiology more than anything, right? We live in a toxic world. We're all going to get bombarded with all the shit in the sky and the soil and the water and blah, blah, blah.

But you can shift that by how you interpret it and how you defend yourself, I guess.

Yeah. And just being In a state of harmony with life. Like I always say, I have an intimate relationship with reality. I'm not fighting reality, which puts me in sympathetic mode. I can't digest food.

Stress.

You don't sleep, all of that inflammation, right? Resistance. So anyway, so now if they could— if they can isolate that, if you can find the not, or even heavier, the I am something negative— I'm bad, I'm a loser, I'm worthless— but typically it's I'm not this. I'm not, you know, attractive enough. I'm not young enough. I'm not successful enough. I'm not smart. I'm not loved. I'm not wanted. The big one is really, I'm not going to be okay. That's the fear of a future that hasn't transpired yet, right? So then we look at that, and then we want to ask the question, is it a truth, an absolute truth, undeniable, that you're not good enough regardless of evidence? Yeah, well, this and this, and my dad said this, and my dad— I don't care about the reasons or justification. Is it an actual truth? Appeal to your own intuition and your intelligence. Is it that who you are as a being is not good enough, or Or is that something you've adopted with all the justifications from childhood?

Or just something you believe.

Yeah. And the belief is really thoughts over time. It's the accumulation that has become now an identity.

The evidence that you've compiled and said, see, look at those evidences of why.

And why it's so insidious is because once we start to accumulate— when I work with teams, especially when I was working with the Major League guys, and still work with a couple of players here and there. Managers, owners, CEOs would always like, what's going on when we have winning streaks and losing streaks? And I say winning streaks, the absence in winning streaks is accumulation. In Ayurveda, which is a healing science of yoga, like Chinese medicine, there's 6 stages of disease. And stage 1 is accumulation, where we start to build up an imbalance. So as someone committed to your health, you might find that fascinating, where you're more a fire type, fire and earth. So if you have too much heat, alcohol, stress, spicy foods, that you start to feel the symptoms, which is aggravation, is the second stage. A little acid reflux, belching, you know, can't sleep at night, and a little bit of loose stools, or maybe your skin starts to break out. And as it starts to spread through the system, right? But then emotionally, if you recognize the accumulation over time of evidence is what eventually creates the personality, right? So I— yes, but it's self-fulfilling because the lack The insecurity, the inadequacy creates the thoughts, feelings, emotions, da da da, which then you get the outcome that's like, see, I told you I was a loser. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. So now it builds upon itself.

And as Dr. Joe Dispenza says, your personality is your personal reality.

Exactly. And then your personal reality reinforces your personality. So to break that cycle takes a, you know, discernment. It takes like a serious amount of commitment to like wanting to break free, which is why I said again There's no greater adversity or challenge you'll ever face than your own identity. It's the ultimate addiction. So now that hopefully somebody has written down, I have believed that I'm not enough for years, or that I felt that I wasn't wanted because I was adopted, or my parents said I was a mistake, or that I feel like I'm not worthy because, you know, I was mocked, or I was in a school of different ethnicity and I was bullied, or, you know, so I don't fit in, I don't belong— like, it can be the do not, like, I do not belong. Right? If we can find that, now we want to investigate the validity, which is a fancy way of saying, is it like really true that you don't belong? And here's the answer, the catchphrase: it's never true, right? It's always no.

Yeah.

It's the way that you've identified, right? So now the next question is, okay, double negation: I'm not not good enough. Who could I be in the absence of the constraint is the next step. So if that's gone, you're not a loser, you're not not loved, you're not not wanted, the dissolution process. Who could you be? That's when the breathing patterns change, tension comes down. If we were measuring metrics, which hopefully one day I will in a show or something, you'll see the heart rate drop, the blood pressure drop instantaneously. Not because you're on a beta blocker, because you shifted from an energy of hostility to one of love and acceptance. Then it's like, wow, oh my God, I could— what becomes available? I could be ever— I don't have anything to prove. I could be anyone. And that then takes practice. So awareness, unconscious, conscious. We negate the constraint that we've been living in somewhat obliviously for decades. We see it's not true. We now tap into the, what I call the 2.0 operating system, which is the inherent qualities of the soul that you are. You start to live from love, not trying to get it. You start to live from worth as opposed to trying to justify it. You start to live from power versus trying to force your way in life. And so that's That's the shit. It's— that's a different world.

Yeah, it is a different world. And it can come in an instant once you unlock the realization. Mm-hmm. But it could also go fall back in an instant to an old identity that you've held on to for 30, 40, 50 years.

For sure.

So how does someone stay in a new identity? Is there an integration phase? How long does it usually take? to stay in a true new identity versus going to the old self?

Yeah, for sure. And this is why, you know, I, I don't know how many people have seen The Matrix. I'm sure you have. But there's a great line in there where he says, we don't free a mind after a certain age. Because the degree to which somebody has lived in this evidence with the self-feedback loops of like, I told you so—

So hard. So hard.

It becomes actually, uh, sort of like this, you know, um, what do they call it, like during the whole COVID, like this cognitive dissonance. Right? Like, it just doesn't even make sense. I can't believe that there's nothing wrong with me because that's all I've known. It's like in Shawshank Redemption, the old guy Brooks, you know, when he's left out, he's been in prison for 60 years or something, and he goes to work in the grocery store and he's like, please, sir, can I use the bathroom?

Yeah, yeah.

So conditioned that he doesn't even have any sovereignty or independence. So, but it depends on a couple of things. The severity of the suffering that's precursor to it, right? Like, if someone had— like, when I held this man on stage who was, I think, 36. And so he'd been estranged from his mom through his own choice, according to him. It was really a reaction to the fear that he's trying to avoid, for 7 years not talking to her. When he really got that he's been living in the world of it's all my fault for 2+ decades, the tears— like, I got up to hold him because he was sobbing, and literally everyone could see his body convulse like a baby who's just weeping. And so, in that moment, the shift was sufficient that his whole physiology changed. As I said, I know it sounds a little bit—

He released it all. Yeah, he released it.

I would say there's probably still some, you know, like it can be really profound. Like, you know, it's like, it's a crass example, but like if you're driving on the road on a road trip and you haven't used the restroom for a while and the next rest stop isn't for 15 miles, you know, it's like the relief from the degree of suffering previous has commensurate relief. So, that's one part.

Yeah, yeah.

If the, if the awakening or the unconscious-conscious process is so profound because of the previous form of suffering, then the ability to integrate is way more powerful.

You may never go back because now you see.

It's like you can't unsee. Now you can never unsee, you'll have that moment, but if it's a little bit more benign or it doesn't have the same degree of trauma, and there always has to be some sort of somatic release, like because it is part of the body, it's not enough to just intellectualize these things. Whenever I'm working with someone, I see respiratory patterns change. I see— again, I can feel their body soften, their facial features even, like, especially when guys have furrows and like anger.

You look younger.

Totally. I mean, this guy was taller. Like, you know, the absence of the weight that he was carrying of guilt and shame manifested in a physiology that was a bit stooped. And suddenly this man shows up, you know. And even some of the women are like, whoa, I didn't even find him attractive. And this is unconscious, you know? Yeah, of course. So that's part of it. But then, yeah, it's the older someone gets, the more established those neural networks have become, the more evidence they have. It's like a child, you know, when I work with younger people, like when they see it, it's like boom, that they're on a different timeline immediately because they don't have sufficient evidence to justify the old identity. So yeah, it's profound stuff.

How do our mental stories and emotional fears manifest in the physical body?

Oh, that's a whole podcast. I mean, dis-ease— like, okay, so I'll break down the current operating system, what I call the 1.0 mindset, which its predominant imperative is survival.

Uh-huh.

So it's based in limitation, which we've covered ad nauseam today, which is limiting code. I'm not something— like, a limitation in the language that we use to identify ourselves creates the predominant emotion of fear, right? That's, that's the cascade. limiting language. It's a survival instinct, and therefore we are, to some degree— it's a cascade, you know, terror and panic at one extreme and mild concern and worry at another. But overall, it's a fear-based relationship to life, looking out for— don't want to get in trouble with the missus, don't want to upset the boss, don't want to lose my job.

Language.

Language is the limitation. How that shows up in our emotional body is predominantly fear. Now, people are walking around saying, I'm not scared, but I probably booed them, or, you know, they got some news about they're about to be fired, they would go into fear, right? It's there beneath the surface. As I say, other people's words don't upset you, they just relieve what you already— they reveal what you already believed about yourself, right? Fear then gives the overarching experience, which we've discussed again, certainly now and then prior, suffering. Suffering, First Noble Truth of Buddhism, I think, you know, to be human is to suffer, inextricably connected. It's like saying, I'm going to jump in the ocean, but I don't want to get wet. You can't, right? To be human is to suffer. So limiting code, subconscious 1.0 construct, fear is the predominant emotion, suffering is the overarching experience, which then leads to dis-ease, the absence of ease. That's how it cascades into the physiology. So it's unavoidable. And sickness— and again, I talked about cancer, which I know is a sort of sensitive subject for people, but that's the way I look at it. But whatever anybody creates, not consciously, so there's no guilt or shame, because a lot of people go into this woe is me and they start berating themselves.

Yeah.

Oh, it's my own fault because of the way— it's not.

That doesn't help you create more ease.

It doesn't. You can't, again, can't be held accountable for that which you're oblivious to. There's a distinction between fault and responsibility. Fault is all about shame and guilt. It's up to you. It's incumbent upon you. Responsibility is, in ways that I don't even comprehend, I'm nonetheless curating the events of my life and everything that's happened. That's power. I might not know why this thing, but if I can take responsibility, I was once T-boned by a car that went through a red light and I was on a Vespa. Don't have to be a rocket scientist to know who won that fight, right? I spread across PCH. Fortunately, I was okay. I was wearing a leather jacket, which was an anomaly. I was going to the premiere of the documentary Heel that I was in many, many moons ago. So thankfully, I was wearing a leather jacket. I still had tons of road rash. Clearly, on the human level, the guy, sweet guy, he's like, we exchanged details, insurance, his insurance, paid for a new bike. It's so funny. I love this about myself. Like, the insurance company kept sending me emails and letters, we need to get your medical bills. And I'd already submitted them. It was like $2,500 from my Chinese medicine acupuncture day. And then, you know, because people play the game and like they were expecting $200 grand and MRIs. And I'm like, no, I'm good. I, you know, I take care of myself. And they're like, no, there's got to be something wrong. But I took responsibility for the fact that my soul, for whatever reasons, was in that moment. And therefore, there's something from that experience that I'm looking to learn from, that I'm not a victim of what happened. Yes, on the human level, he takes responsibility and liability. He went through the red light. Fortunately, he wasn't going so fast. I might not even be here to have the conversation. But I still, at the deepest level, own the fact that I'm in that moment of life. That's power. That's true responsibility. Otherwise, as I tell people, it's an on-off switch. You're either a victim or you're responsible. Choosing 100% responsibility is not easy, but it's powerful. So then to come back to this sort of understanding of like, we're doing the best we can with the limits of our current awareness, right? But then we want to see who could I be in the absence of those concerns? And that's where we bring these unconscious— so the beliefs that we have are an extension of the identity that we are. And so the events that we curate are nonetheless for our own emancipation fundamentally. They're here to help us break free from these constraints. Yeah. So that's the manifestation, the self-fulfilling prophecy. And, um, yeah, it's not for the light of heart, but it's, it's powerful.

Do you think a lot of suffering, uh, physical suffering, comes from mental disease?

Um, I would say the majority.

Like, the question about—

besides being like hit by a car or something like that, but I mean Yeah, and the way I distinguish it, to keep it simple, I think words are helpful if you really look at them from their ontology and where they maybe come from. Like, I associate pain with physical, suffering from emotional and psychological. So I can't get rid of pain. I'm gonna have my own pain. I was standing up for like, you know, 8+ hours a day doing this retreat.

Yeah.

My back was sore, right? There's pain. But then if I had had a conversation on top of the pain, which is like, this is bullshit, this is unfair, I don't want to be up here, da da da.

You'd suffer.

On top of the pain. Now it's amplified. So that's why I can't in any stretch of the imagination proclaim to be able to get rid of pain. No one's ever going to do that. But I do feel confident that I can end suffering, because suffering is the relationship to life, pain being one of those. So disease, dis-ease, the absence of ease, and how it shows in the manifest world of our bodies and health, um, is really to understand that cascade so people can at least be empowered. Like, of course, there's a myriad of different other contributing factors. Like, we have compromised DNA. People have MTHFRs, their metabolism, their methylation pathways, things I know for myself that, like, you know, that I don't have strong immunity in my gut or my lungs. My serotonin is slightly dysfunctional. My mitochondria don't clear very— like, I've done my deep dive on my DNA, but I haven't taken medication ever, you know? Like, I mean, apart from, like, something acute, right? Yeah. You know, but I'm— I don't take drugs. I mean, it's not medication. That's another distinction. If anyone's doing a refill, it's not a medication anymore, it's a drug, right? Medication is curative or preventative. So that's no slight on people, but maybe if you want to be well, let's look at what are the underlying causative factors, the dis-ease. Where are you in a state of the absence of ease, which is a byproduct of suffering, fear, and limitation? Which is why I've seen the most ridiculous— I mean, one of my favorite stories, a woman in my mastermind, she had stage 4 endometriosis, 29. The world, the mind that she lived in that was creating limitation was that her needs don't matter. Like, that's how she felt in her family. She was dismissed and da da da. Horrible for a little girl. But what better way to manifest physically down the chain of creation than her needs not mattering as a woman than the inability to procreate, perhaps the greatest gift for a woman. 2 months after the mastermind, went back for tests, zero endometriosis.

Wow.

Yeah. And I mean, you've heard these stories, I'm sure. You know, Joe's a friend of mine as well. You know, he does a lot of that in his retreats. But that to me is not a miracle. That's— it's a miracle to the cognitive dissonance of somebody who believes things aren't possible. But as I tell people, what we believe is possible is not what's possible, right? And so I have learned over the years to become more friendly, familiar, and accepting of the word miracle, because to me it's less a miracle, it's more just physics. If you shift frequencies, your body's going to shift.

It's alignment. When you get back into alignment, your body aligns to a state of healing, a state of wholeness rather than a state of disease. Yeah. Or some type of cancerous result, whether it be skin rashes or cancers or anything else that's hurting you. Yeah. Outside of a, you know, a car crash or something like that.

You know, it's like that quote, I think from Einstein. It says you can't solve a problem from within the same level of consciousness that created it. And so I would assert with healing, With all the best intentions in the world, and I have so much compassion for people who've been on journeys with what they call chronic conditions, which is another misnomer. There's nothing chronic. Chronic is just the illusion that helps the ego to hold on to the evidence over time.

Yeah.

And if you really get that, then that adds the strength of attachment of the ego that I have a chronic injury. No, you have pain. Like somebody in my group has often said they had chronic pain until they realize they didn't have pain when they have it, and they don't have it when they don't have it. Chronic just creates the significance to it, right?

Yes.

But when we realize that likewise, that we can't create— we can't solve a problem from the same level of consciousness that created it, you can't heal from the same— within the same level of limiting code and emotions that created it. So this is both beautiful and maybe confronting for people, is that people right now out there listening to this who are trying to heal— don't take this the wrong way— But the you that is struggling can't heal. Healing is on the other side of the you that is the precursor to the current sickness and disease that you're experiencing. That's both the bad and the good news, because I'm trying to heal, but the I that is the identity founded in limitation, fear, and suffering and disease is the obstacle to the healing that is wanting to happen in the absence of the constraints that you've become identified with.

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So how does someone heal themselves then?

They don't. The body knows how to do that. They have to get out of the frequency, which is the precursor to the sickness in the first place. That goes back to the exercise I took everyone through. So, you know, the idea of consciousness to identity to beliefs through that process. Yeah, to get to the eventually the I'm not something. So even in that case, people who've been struggling with something for a long time, one of the biggest obstacles to their healing is the belief that they're never going to be okay. Now, if you live in a world where I'm never going to be okay, that is complete and utter devastation, right? How disempowering, disheartening. Like, if I'm never going to be okay, I'm just going to do the best I can. One of my Most powerful distinction I say to people is, in that case, you can only become the best version of your limited self. And that's what humans are doing.

And you're always a victim.

Always. But you're a victim, again, not of circumstance, not of the condition, but of your own perspective, which is enforcing, reinforcing the very thing that you proclaim with all the best intentions in the world that you want to get away from.

Yeah, you don't want.

You don't want. But again, this is a hard thing for people to hear. Most people don't have problems, they protect problems.

Wow. Why is that?

Because the number one, like, way of being right, right, the self-value— being right is the poor man's version of self-worth.

Oh man, they protect their problems.

Yeah, that should be like an ouch and a wow for many people.

Most people don't have problems, they protect their problems.

Because the identity, which is illusory, the very idea of ourself is built on the foundation of lies. And therefore, in order to sustain it, you have to keep finding evidence, otherwise it falls apart. I took people through an exercise in my mastermind where they have to tell their story over and over. Typically, it only takes 2 or 3 times until they become sick of their own story.

They're like, oh, yeah.

In the presence of someone loving. One person at the retreat, she even forgot her story on the second go-around. She's like, oh my God, I just realized I can't even remember what it was. Because—

We're holding on to these stories for so long, right?

It's exhausting. Exhaustion is the number one word I hear from people when they look back and realize that they've been living in a lie. How do you feel? You're just so exhausted. Because you're fighting the invisible ghost. I say it's like getting into a ring, a UFC ring or whatever, a boxing ring, and you're being told that the world's greatest fighter is opposite you, but they're invisible. You're in a perpetual state of anticipation of threat.

Wow. And you never actually fight them.

Because there's no one there other than your own illusion.

Wow.

Can't help but laugh. I tell people, until you realize the only thing you're fighting is your own imagination.

Isn't it crazy? Or your own perception of what may or may never happen, right?

Yeah, yeah. Women— I feel for women, you know, because we as men— and I know you stand for this as much as I am— to get my, my brothers and fellow men to like get out, at least get out of the world of abuse, even if you can't step into the love of provider, protector, and lover, you know, to at least stop beating up on women. But for that reason, women— the number one constraint I see in women is that they're not safe, and they have all the evidence for it, right?

Yeah.

And so how that manifests, particularly with women who struggle, you know, in the arenas of like cancers, you know, that show up, and particularly in these sensitive areas of the female body, is that they're in a constant state of fight or flight, right? But if you're in this world of I'm not safe, then you have no choice but to constantly be on guard. And typically, you know, that's going to lead to where women— I tell people they shift from resilience, which is the inherent capacity of a woman. Like, women are insane. Like, you've just seen this with your wife, like the delivery and God forbid now for the next 18 years, who she has to be, how she has to show up, right? And beyond. But then resilience, when it's coupled with one of these subconscious constraints of inadequacy or lack of self-worth or not good enough, becomes tolerance.

Ah.

And for women, when they see that, it's like, oof, I become way too tolerant, you know? And so for me, for the men to be able to step up and to hold space and realize, wow, in my own partnerships, my own wives, my girlfriends, my mothers, my sisters, where am I a threat? to their safety. And that's not an easy thing for a man to look at, but it is the access to the evolution of who they get to be as a real man.

I've got a couple of final questions for you.

Sure. It's been very powerful. I feel we could go on for hours, but—

Yeah, I know. I want to keep going on for hours. I want to have you back on in the future. But you've, you've worked with a lot of elite athletes, you know, billionaires, CEOs, and people who have accomplished incredible external success. What is the number one thing that has allowed all of them to reach it? And of all these top billionaires, CEOs, and famous individuals, what is the thing that most of them are suffering with the most?

Wow, 2 sides of the same coin, right? Meaning, so I would say it seems antithetical, but one of the things that has created their success is fear. You know, there's a great line in Batman, uh, something Rising or Batman Rises, whatever it is, and I forget, but they're in this like big hellhole, right? Like they're all thrown into like a deep, deep well, and this is men, right? And, and Batman, uh, I've forgotten the characters. Christopher Lee, is that the actor? Or whoever it was, whatever.

Not Christopher Nolan, that's the director.

Yeah, yeah. Christopher, is it Christopher something? Anyway. Good-looking dude.

He's a British guy, but I'm like, yeah, Christopher, makes sense.

So he's trying to get out, right? But he's got the rope around. And so then he speaks to the guy, the sage, who represents, you know, that wise old man who's like, you know, do it like the kid did it. And he's like, that— how's that without the rope? Yeah. And so fear, whilst it can be our greatest sort of, um, self-destruction and, uh, compromise and our unbecoming, is nonetheless, for athletes with talent, can be the motivating force for, often, as sad as it is to say, to disprove those who we felt didn't have our loyalty or didn't have our backs. You know, the dad or the high school teacher that mocked the child, I'm gonna prove them wrong, right? So, so often I've worked with, again, like in the world of material success, billionaires who nonetheless have sicknesses, disease, third marriages, kids with addiction, and a lot of anxiety or medications that they're on, drugs that they're taking. But have amassed external success, but in the absence of internal security. And so that was the way that the hungry ghost, the addiction where you can never get enough of something that almost works, in this case, material success, has nonetheless never fulfilled on the hole that can never be filled. And so that also, as I said, two sides of the same coin. So that is the motivating factor for a lot of accomplishment, but then can lead to the lack of fulfillment because it's never actually something that can be overcome. So I've seen that. And what's so beautiful is that when I get to work with people who have an immense amount of skill or immense amount of success or immense amount of talent or whatever it is, that then when they tap into this living from love, living from expansion—

The impact, the freedom, right?

The absolute freedom that then ironically becomes the precursor to even greater success. I'll never forget the story when I first started with an MLB team and I grew Opening with a soccer ball at my feet. I didn't know, you know, baseball from a hole in the road. Like, and my friend was joking a lot. He's like, "What exactly are you going to tell people?" He's like, he was hysterical. He's like, "Are you going to just tell them to keep their eye on the ball?" Like, no, these are guys who get command $200 million between them in a team. But there was one guy who called me soon after I'd done my spring training talks, and he was struggling. And he's actually a couple of months into the season because for three months in the previous season. he hadn't had a home run, and for 2 months into the next. So it was almost a whole season of 6 months across 2.

Yes.

And he was a middle-of-the-pack kind of home run guy. He wasn't a first baseman who does the 30 hits of homers. And he wasn't small, like shortstop, and the guy gets 6 or 7. He was a good solid 15 to 18 per season. He hadn't had any. And so the nature of a locker room with men who are jeering and competing and messing around with each other, and he was getting a lot of stick from the guy. Don't worry, you're not a power player. And they're messing with him, and it was starting to— Grind, and so he called me one day. He was sitting in the parking lot of the stadium, and I tend to bring a lot of tough love, especially to my guys. So he's telling me the situation. I said, "So what if I told you for the rest of your career?" And he probably had another five, six seasons in him that you never ever hit another home run. Will you be okay, or do I need to call your mum? Right, right, right, right. And of course, you know the immediate resistance which is there, the reactions that we've talked about. He's like, dude, no, that's terrible. Like, I'm getting paid millions of dollars to perform. How could I? Just even in the course of this almost season, it's horrific. I'm embarrassed. I'm ashamed. I feel terrible. I'm not sleeping. All the ramifications. And I said, no, no, no, you've got to listen to the question. If for the rest of your career, 6, 7 seasons, 5, 6, 7, you never hit a run, are you going to be okay? And eventually he got to the right answer. Yeah, I know it's not what you want. I know it's not what I want. I know it's definitely not what the team wants who are paying you millions of dollars. To perform, but are you gonna be okay? And so the exercise was to take him to the peace and the relief and the profound acceptance that even in the absence of what we desire, that we realize that we're gonna be okay.

Even if I fail, I'm gonna be okay. Yeah.

And that profound capital-A acceptance of, I don't mind what happens. Let— I mean, I could hear him exhale on the phone, right? We were— it was with the Diamondbacks at the time, and we were playing the Cardinals. His second at-bat, boom, biggest home run he's ever hit.

The next game?

No, that game, that night. That game.

Wow. That's crazy. Because he had freedom.

He had complete freedom, which is why my whole work is about freedom. He had found peace with a future that he was otherwise trying to avoid. There's 3 stages of the way that we relate to time, as I tell people. Past, we're holding on to the things we haven't reconciled. Present, we're resisting what is. And then future, we're trying to avoid the pain that we haven't yet reconciled. This is the way that people live through life. So he was in a state of holding past trauma, resisting the way things are, and concerned and fearful of a future that hasn't happened yet. In that one conversation, we reconciled all of it, mitigated any of the resistance. He's an athlete who has hit millions of home runs over the course of his life, you know, from being a kid.

Yeah.

in his dreams and his visions and his practice, his body knows what to do when a ball's coming at him at 79 curveball, 89 fastball, whatever. Like, he knows how to respond, not react. And so he said it was the easiest home run he's ever hit in his entire career.

Wow. He just— yeah, let it go.

Because he was not attached to any outcome. Wow.

Yeah. But it's so hard to not be attached to an outcome when you want it so badly, right?

And that's that balance. The eternal dance. To your question of like, what do I see as the quality in those who attain success and what do I see as their downfall? It's one and the same thing is how do you find that balance between commitment, which gives direction and a sense of unstoppability, but then also profound humility for when things don't go your way?

It's high engagement, low attachment. Yeah.

And so the quote, which I don't readily give out, but like, you know, for my athletes, they say, Fully committed, totally unattached. Yeah, yeah. And that's a tough balance. That's tough, man. Yeah. That is freedom. Yeah, it's like the quote, just to finish that, because he's the greatest golfer of all time, which is Jack Nicklaus, right? Better than Tiger. Tiger obviously changed the sport, but Jack has got the biggest accolades. One of his quotes was one of my favorites to this point. He said, one of the greatest parts of winning is being okay losing. Oh, he said— he didn't say, I want to lose. He didn't say, I'm focused on losing. It's like, you know, that old adage of like, winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners. And I— when I saw that, it's so profound. He didn't say, I'm okay with it. He didn't say, I'm focused on it. He said, I'm okay if it happens. When you're okay with any outcome, you have nothing that's holding you back.

Yeah, yeah. And that's free. You play more free.

Yeah. Yeah.

What do you wish everyone knew about Fame, success, and money?

They're not what you think they are, and they're never the ultimate destination. You're not looking for some external exogenous form of accomplishment. You're looking for the experience you think that's going to bring you, and that experience is available to you right now because it's the essence of who you are.

We've got a lot more questions. We'll have to have you back on another time to Yeah, let's go over them. But this has been really powerful, Peter, and I want to acknowledge you for bringing so much wisdom from all the years you've been doing this work to this, this conversation, this interview, and for breaking down things that seem extremely challenging for people to understand with great stories, lessons, and ideas that I hope that people can connect to and simplify things that seem so challenging for them to understand. So I want to acknowledge you for bringing that today.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

And for all that you're doing for so many people in the world through your programs, your coaching, your events. And you've got a 3-month mastermind coming up pretty soon. Yeah. And you'll have these ongoing. Yeah. Yeah. And a new membership platform called 2.0 World. Yes. Where can people go to be a part of this or learn more about your, your content?

Firstly, thank you for the words. Means a lot. Coming from you, and especially in the vein of what we were sharing earlier, of like, you know, that little sort of Achilles heel where it's nice to be seen. So thank you.

Of course. Yeah, yeah.

No, I really care deeply. And I remember when I was younger, not that long ago, maybe a decade or so, I really thought my caring was a shortcoming, you know, and I realized, no, actually it's a superpower. So people can find, you know, through all the usual channels, Instagram, Facebook, my website, it's all my name, Peter Crone, @petercrone, petercrone.com. And the Mastermind, you know, for those who want to go deep and do the 3-month journey, I do theory coaching, profound, you know, the deep philosophy about how we are as humans and what holds us back and how to break free. And then the 2.0 World is my new membership platform that will probably be out in October or so. And then next year I'll be taking through people through the entire upgrade of the new operating system of freedom, love, and possibility. Yeah.

Do you have a book also?

I'm writing it. I've been writing it, for those who follow me for a while, for way too long in their mind. But it's the greatest marketing campaign.

This is your— this might be one of your blocks. Yeah. Because I was thinking before, I was like, I don't think you have a book. No. And I know you've probably thought of it for a decade plus.

Yeah. I've got a series of books. And I think the issue is that I keep doing all the templates simultaneously versus just locking in on the one.

Just do one. Yeah. Just do one and give yourself a deadline. Yeah. And just— it's got to come out next year. Yes.

No matter what, we're way closer because now at the point of the proposal, the deal, and versus me just being in my own little silo writing. So now I'm engaged with publishers. And so it's actually on the track. Yeah. All right, cool.

Yeah. Thank you. I'm going to hold you to that. Yeah, it's got to come out. Absolutely. Peter Crone everywhere. Make sure you guys follow him. Check it out. I love your content. You got a lot of great stuff and people can see you coaching people live on your content as well, which is really cool.

Yeah, that's the same. That seems to be the stuff that goes really viral because people can relate. That's the beauty of even the Mastermind is I, you know, thousands of people from around the world, but I only coach a few, but everyone can relate to the story, the resonance of what it is to be human and the fundamental fears everyone can relate to.

Beautiful. 2 final questions. This one's called the 3 Truths. Hypothetical scenario, you get to live as long as you wanna live in this earth. You get to create and be, do, have everything you wanna create. But it's the last day, many years away. Yeah. And for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your content with you. Okay. So we don't have access to this conversation. All the books that you end up writing, all the content you have on your social media, it's gone.

Yeah.

Hypothetical. But on the final day, you get to leave behind 3 main lessons that you would want to leave behind. Well, I call it 3 truths. Wow. And that's all we would have to remember you by with your content. Yeah. What would those 3 truths be for you?

Oof. That's a great question I never, I never even heard. Number one, I love you. I really want people to know that, like, and not in any way to dismiss who somebody is, but my nature, and I would assert our nature as beings, is to love.

Yeah.

And I would, in the most poetic way that I say, it's like we all love— well, again, I'm paraphrasing myself and I forgot. Everybody loves everybody. It's just most people don't know that yet. So I love you, number one. Number two, there's absolutely nothing wrong with you, despite how much you try to defend that and prove it.

What if you've done a lot of bad things though?

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. It just means that there's consequences of your behavior to take responsibility for.

For your actions, yeah. Okay.

And even the things that you've done that are bad, I would assert, are an extension of the conditioning that wasn't necessarily yours, but things you've inherited based on the lessons that you're here to learn. So either way, you're a beneficiary of your own behaviors if you choose to look back on them and grow.

And the third thing?

It all works out.

Yeah, in your favor.

The old expression, it all works out in the end.

That's true. And if it hasn't— It's not the end.

It hasn't worked out, it's not the end.

Exactly. Final question, Peter. What is your definition of greatness?

Oh my gosh. Okay, I love words so much that I really want to articulate this in a way that honors the platform that I'm— and the man that I'm with. My definition of greatness, I would say it is when a soul has discovered its own existence. It has transcended the constraints with which we arrive to realize that the very essence of who we are is always what we've been looking for, to live from that space of true freedom, love, and possibility, and to impart that onto others so that they might discover the same within themselves.

Peter Crone, my man. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. Thank you. Powerful, man.

Yeah. Much love to you and to everyone.

Thank you, my friend.

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