Your Pain Pushes You Until Your Vision Pulls You | Michael Beckwith

You know how people sometimes invest in something that seems incredible at first, but then it doesn't live up to the hype? Like when everyone was convinced NFTs were the future and people were buying them for thousands of dollars, and now they barely have any value. Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for numbers that look great, like impressions, but then they don't see revenue. LinkedIn has a word for that: bull spend. Instead, you can get the highest ROAS of major ad networks with LinkedIn Ads. Cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 and get a $250 credit. Go to linkedin.com/Lewis.

Terms apply.

Support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. Ever think, what if you could go after what you actually want and make a real difference? You're not alone. For over 50 years, Walden University has helped working adults get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to build the future they want. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is it. Head to waldenu.edu. Walden University, set a course for change. Certified to operate by Shev. The School of Greatness is presented by ChatGPT. ChatGPT Work, a new way to work in ChatGPT, can help you organize multi-step projects. ChatGPT Work can use your apps, connected tools, and files to create things like landing pages, trackers, even web apps. You can also make ChatGPT Work more specialized by installing specific plugins. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode, available on Plus and Pro plans. Everywhere I go— airports, events, walking down the street— people stop me and say, Lewis, this show got me through one of the hardest seasons of my life. And it's one of the coolest things when people come up to me. So if you see me, please come up and say hi and let me know how This show, The School of Greatness, has impacted you. It lights me up because our mission at Greatness Media is to impact 100 million lives every single week. So if today's conversation hits home for you, do me a favor and push the follow button right now. It means that the next conversation will be delivered to you and will find you exactly when you need it. Again, thank you so much for being here and listening to The School of Greatness. Make sure to follow right now to stay up to date on the latest and greatest.

For those that don't know what Agape is, you started it when and what is it exactly?

Our first Sunday service was November 30th, 1986.

Wow.

Actually being a strong representation of diversity, inclusivity, spiritual community.

You grew up in a church, Methodist Church, right? And then you left when you were a teenager?

Yeah, actually, I was attending Holman's Methodist Church as a child. And also another church. And Holman's Methodist Church is where I actually met Martin Luther King Jr.

No way.

Yeah. And my mother introduced me to him. I shook his hand and I said, Mom, he has such soft hands. And my mother said, baby, he does a different kind of work.

He's not building buildings.

No, no, no.

So yeah, I grew up there. As a teenager, I left that. The paradigm was a little bit small for me. The teachings were a little dogmatic. Not at Holman's necessarily, but I went to a congregational church after that. So as a teenager, I left. It was too much politics, and I was kind of agnostic. I was pretty much agnostic, atheistic, and I remember when I was attending Morehouse College, me and a friend of mine who's now an attorney, we used to go out and convert Christians to atheism. Really?

Why?

Because we knew that religion, as it was being espoused, was not the real deal. And we would break it down and show people how Jesus had nothing to do with this, you know what I mean? That Christianity came a couple of hundred years after Jesus came and left, and that—

Made by other men or women or whatever, yeah.

And so it was shocking to me that a few years later when I was attending USC, I had a spiritual awakening in which I could see the presence Everywhere, in everything. And again, I didn't relegate it to religiosity. I moved more into much more of a spiritual outlook.

Mm-hmm.

And began to realize what Jesus was talking about, what Buddha was talking about, and what all the great teachers were talking about. It wasn't about religion. It was about freedom. It was about spirituality. It was about awakened consciousness. It was about the greatness and the beauty and the light that's within us all, of which many people who go down a religious path suffer from a paradigm blindness. They can't see outside of that particular box.

They have a fixed mindset.

Right, right.

It's a fixed set of rules and beliefs, and you can't expand beyond that.

Can't go beyond it.

Otherwise you're wrong or you're judging yourself.

Or you think you're the only one.

Right, right, right, right.

Wow.

And community is such a big part of religion, right?

Yeah, there's a lot of good to say about community. Of course, there's the whole social interaction, there's the service. There's the inspiration, community assists each other. People that are in some kind of community have a tendency to live longer than other people. There's a stronger support system. So spiritual community is extremely powerful.

Yeah.

So when you started Agape, was it— what was the foundation that was based on the principles?

Well, first of all, agape means unconditional love. Again, I heard that in a speech from Dr. King when I was a little boy.

Wow.

'Cause he's describing in the Greek languages the different kinds of love, and agape is the love of God operating in the human heart. It's an unconditional, all-conditional, non-agenda love. It's a total givingness of the spirit. And so, having studied in metaphysics, I combined the metaphysics teachings with the spirit of agape love. And then that became the foundation of the rise of our community.

And has it been kind of the same principles over the last 32 years, or has it evolved as you've evolved and learned new things, or—

Well, it evolves because I'm always on the verge of new insights and new revelations, but the principles you can't really change.

Yeah.

You know, the principles of oneness, the principles of inclusivity, the principles that we have infinite potential that's within us, within everyone. And that we're here to unlock that, to unleash that, to set that free, and to make a mighty difference on the planet while we're here. The principles that a thought is a unit of mental energy that transmutes itself into perception, speech, behavior, ultimately experience. I mean, these are spiritual principles that no one has a monopoly on.

Mm-hmm.

So I think with spiritual practice, you just have greater insight into those principles. And you teach them more and more in a much more beautiful and elegant way.

What's been the biggest challenge for you as a human being living a spiritual path over the last, you know, 30-plus years? What's been your greatest human challenge?

I think just dealing with human beings.

We're complicated people, aren't we?

I mean, it's the best and the worst in the same package.

Yeah, yeah.

See, human beings that are on the verge of great discovery You see miracles. You see people coming out of the depths of despair and depression and illness and sickness and addiction rising. And then you see human beings who will criticize and complain and gossip and attack. All in the same day, you may get the same deal. You may, you know, and so I've learned to not embrace either one of the imposters, which is praise or criticism. I don't run towards praise. I don't run from criticism. And I just don't deal in that area. You know, I just keep my attention on that which is real and keep moving forward. But as far as just being human, we suffer everything anybody suffers from.

There's loss.

People die. All of that is in the human condition.

What's been, you know, with all the lessons you've learned and the principles you've, you know, been studying for years, what's been the hardest thing for you to overcome in terms of like maybe a loss or a struggle or— a breakup when you were younger or a death of someone? Was there something specific where you're like, man, I know how to get through this, but it took me months or years to like fully heal or fully process this?

I would say 2 things. One, my mother passed about 6 years ago. And it's not that people don't pass, but it happened suddenly. I mean, it happened within—

She was good and then—

Within a couple of weeks. And she didn't tell us. We knew she was a cancer survivor, but she didn't tell us that it had come back. Intuitively, I went over to her house every night after I got off of work. I just started going by there all the time. And she would say, why you come by every night? I said, I don't know. I just want to hang out with you. I didn't know that it was close.

Wow.

And then when I was called to the hospital to see her, and it was like, what? You're leaving? And she was like in the bed, and she started talking to her ancestors that were invisible. And I remember her saying, no, no, not yet, not yet. I'm gonna go home first, and then I'm gonna leave. I'm like, you're gonna leave? So she went home. Within a couple of weeks, she had passed over.

Wow.

And it shook my entire family because as the matriarch, she held everything together. So it took a moment to, like, adjust. My father is still adjusting.

Really? 6 years later?

6 years later, man. He went into kind of a reclusive kind of vibe.

Wow.

I've been going over there a lot lately, helping him do a lot of things that he's been resistant to because he's such an independent guy. He was a judge, you know? And so we just— the family's just now, like, breathing. And then right this moment, I've been separated from my wife for the last couple of years, and we're just now moving through the legal stuff. And that's been kind of difficult.

Yeah. How long were you married for?

I got married in 2000, end of 2000.

Wow.

So, but, you know, there's a lot of friendship, a lot of love, a lot of really good stuff we did together.

Sure.

So I'm not naive to think that people are supposed to stay together forever, particularly with the longevity rate going up, particularly with people learning their lessons faster. You know, there's a lot of people that are staying together that should be apart.

For too long.

For too long.

Decades, right?

So I'm not naive in that sense. But it's, it's a, it's a, it's an interesting lesson.

Do you ever feel a sense of shame or insecurity around teaching certain principles if you're going through certain challenges like this yourself? Like, if people are looking to you for counsel or advice on relationships and it might look like yours is failing or didn't work out, do you ever feel any—

No, because, you know, you never let anybody else define your narrative for your life. So I've been married twice. So I haven't had 2 failed marriages. I've had 2 successful marriages. The first marriage, I have 2 beautiful children from it, grandchildren from one of the kids, and it was my high school sweetheart. Friendship is deep. I mean, I was with her on Christmas with her husband, you know, so it's all family, it's all celebratory. Second marriage, very successful. We produced a lot of music, a lot of programs, a lot of people. So I don't look at those as failed relationships. I look at those as successful relationships. And when that particular form is over, it's over. Now some people try to hang on to the form, you know what I mean? And they cause themselves a lot of issues.

Yeah, a failed relationship is one that stays together too long without either shifting or reinventing it or bringing that sense of peace and love together when you stay miserable. I feel like that's more of a failure.

It's a deep failure.

Even though you stayed together, if there's not love and real respect—

You know, you're not growing together anymore.

Yeah.

You know, I had a friend of mine that him and his wife were together since high school. It was like, it was obvious after a while that they were just to be friends and move forward, you know what I mean? And they would never do it. And he ended up dying. I'm not saying he died from that, but I often thought that, you know, you didn't go for your life. You ended up wanting to live with an image that we were together for X amount of years and all of that.

Why do we hold on to that so much, that image of like, we're gonna make it work, or it has to look a certain way for us to be respected in our communities, or—

Because people have a tendency to care more about what other people are thinking about them than what their soul wants. And so they live from, oh, what is so-and-so gonna think of me? What's my mother gonna think of me? What's society gonna think of me? And inside, everyone has a destiny, bright, beautiful destiny. The soul is calling us to greatness, your name of your show, to be great beings, to be great lights, to live fully. And oftentimes people will dim their light in order to fit into someone else's paradigm and end up with crisis, end up with disease, end up with prolonged sadness.

Yeah.

When if you just step out of that, there's so much life to live, you see. So I think a lot of people are just run by what others are thinking about them rather than what their soul wants.

Yeah, powerful. I think when we shine our light, the challenge is sometimes there are people that try to take us down.

Oh yeah.

Right?

Listen.

So how do we handle that when, you know, it doesn't matter how much positivity you try to put in the world, how much good you try to do, If someone's always gonna try to take you down, how should we handle that?

Well, first of all, we have to be aware that mediocrity always attacks excellence.

Ooh.

It's kind of a rule. No one's attacking a couch potato.

Right. No one cares.

No one cares. If you're sitting on the couch eating potato chips and getting fat and doing nothing, no one says anything. But the moment you start to walk toward your dream and you start to break habits, you start to change relationships that no longer serve that dream, You start to be talked about. Now, many people are afraid of failure, which really means that they're afraid of being ridiculed. But once you become aware that you're going to be ridiculed if you fail and you're going to be talked about if you succeed, then you're able to put that aside because you know you're going to be talked about either way.

No matter what, yeah.

If you go for it and you fall, oh, he went for it and he didn't make it. Or if you go for it and succeed, they'll say, oh, it was luck. Whatever they say about you. So once you get out of your mind or become aware that people are going to talk about you either way, then you go for it, you see. And at the end of the day, you are different because you went for it. That you going for it actually brings out latent powers and gifts and talents within you that can't come to bloom unless you go for it. So then when you reach your next mountaintop, and mountaintops are endless, yeah, when you meet— when you reach your next peak, who's with you are the people that are supposed to be with you or could be with you based on what you have become. Now you go for another peak, and then the people that are supposed to be with you there are with you. And all the days—

You might shed some people who came with you from the first.

Shed the ballast.

Yeah. Some people might come with you to the next mountain, but some people might be Left behind, right?

Absolutely. You keep your heart open. You never just jettison people out of your life. Your heart is open, but you're constantly growing and unfolding. So I think that when you're going for a goal, it's not just achieving the goal. It's actually who are you becoming on the way to bringing that goal into manifestation. And then your new becoming, you have a different vibration. And now the people at that vibration are hanging with you. They support, they love, they appreciate you, they cheer you on rather than tear you down. If you're living in a paradigm of scarcity and lack, you tear people down. If you're living in a paradigm of abundance and opulence, there's enough for everybody, you cheer people on. So your success makes me happy, right? You know, oh, look what Lewis did! Oh, that's great, that's fantastic. Yeah, I'm not in the paradigm of thinking that because you succeed There's less for me. I'm in the paradigm of thinking if you succeed, that's a shining example. What he did is possible.

I can go do that or something else.

I can do what I can do in my life.

What's the thing that you're most proud of, of who you've become on all the mountaintops that you've reached?

I think I have just a deep sense of compassion for people. And I have a very deep well of forgiveness.

You do?

Yeah, where people are concerned. I just—

You forgive quickly or—

Quickly. Nothing sticks. Nothing sticks to me. I was just recently with a good friend of mine, Cicely Tyson. She comes to Agape when she comes in town, and we were having a conversation, and she was indicating there were some things that had been done to her recently, and she had no bitterness about it.

Really?

And she's 94.

Wow. Like someone attacked her or did something wrong by her?

Somebody stole some stuff from her. preyed on her because she's a senior citizen. And, and she says, I don't have time to let that burden me. I, I have too much life to live. She's 94 years old. Yeah, yeah. I want to be like that. I don't have time to hold the burden of rancor or resentment if somebody says something or whatever the case may be. And I think I've always had a deep well of that, but being with her recently made me know that could go a little deeper.

Wow. Is there ever a time to be angry?

Yeah, I think there's, there's a difference between just anger and righteous indignation. Righteous indignation— we should be indignant when we live in a country and there are people that can't eat.

Yeah.

You know, we live in a country of so-called wealth and we still have people that don't have universal healthcare or just the basic needs that can be provided by our society, or the way we treat women or things of that particular nature. I think that There's a righteous indignation that's different from just being angry or living at a high level of pithosity all the time that only sends toxic chemicals through our body temple. So sometimes anger can be a masking emotion for fear.

Yeah.

People can actually be afraid and they mask it with anger. So, no, I think there's righteous indignation, you know, with time that we need to act, time that we need to make a difference, need to let our voice Speak about things that need to be changed.

And what about the ego? You've been— we were talking off camera how you've been— you're a doctor, you've been knighted, sir'd, I don't know, chief. You've got like 500 titles of like the highest praise. How does someone manage their ego as they continue to climb in the world?

Yeah, well, we have to understand the evolutionary context of ego. Ego as what protects us as we are evolving as a human species. It's what protects you so that you're able to survive.

Mm.

So you're able to tell the difference between you and a saber-toothed tiger. You, back during tribalism, you know, you had to be able to have a level of differentiation for your safety. But now we're at the point where we have to transcend the ego's perception of separation. Because right now it's run amok. You know, we're separate from our environment, we're separate from the oceans, we're separate from the rainforest, we're separate from each other because of the color of the skin or nationality where we were born. So we have to be aware that the ego's first job is to protect. But when that protection starts going to making us feel separate from everybody, then we have to keep it in check. And we have to transcend it. And that's where meditation comes in. That's where prayer— that's where study— that's where fellowship. We're able to transcend the ego so I can see you and I are the same. We may come from different parts of the world.

Yeah.

Different skin colors, But at the bottom, we're both human.

Yeah.

So once with spiritual practice, you don't let the ego go crazy, and it becomes not about me, it becomes about we, you know, it becomes about us. Not just my family, but where does my family end? Does it end with just people who are Black? Does it end with people just in the United States? Does my family end just with people in North America, you know? After a while, you realize humanity is your family. And you don't want to do anything that's going to be detrimental to anyone on the family, even if it's the rainforest.

Right.

Even if it's the ocean water, you know. And so, again, it's difficult for people if they don't have some modicum of spiritual practice, because the ego will just come in— me, me, my, my, greed. Stinginess, you know, I'm gonna protect mine, that becomes the frequency. But when you start to grow, you realize it's really a we vibe here. It's not just a me vibe.

Right. 2 questions. One, why do you think we are here? And why do you think you are here?

I believe that everyone has the same purpose. We all have different missions. We all have the same purpose, and I'll say it in different ways. We can say we're all here to reflect the face of divinity, or we're here to reflect the cosmos in a way that only we can. Everyone is here for that same purpose. Then we all have different missions. Some people's mission is to teach, heal, inspire, uplift, to create some level of art that's going to inspire, choreography. We all have different missions. But every mission carries that larger purpose. How is my life reflecting the entire cosmos? Because I believe all of us have the entirety of the cosmos in us, and we're here to discover it, activate it, cultivate it, and set it free. So we're all here to reflect the face of God, for lack of a— just to bring it down. Not God, not a man in the sky.

Right.

We're not that naive.

Right, right, right, sure.

But the presence, That is never in absence. So everyone has the same purpose. Some people know their purpose, some people don't.

Some nights you get enough hours of sleep and still wake up feeling drained. And as you get older, hormonal changes can affect how rested you feel. That's where Magnesium Breakthrough by Bioptimizers comes in, supporting relaxation and overall sleep quality. They just launched Magnesium Breakthrough Advance 10— 10 bioavailable forms plus active vitamin B6 and ionic trace minerals to support uptake. And they actually test for bioaccessibility to help ensure the magnesium is available for absorption. Their most complete formula yet for sleep, recovery, stress, and metabolic support. Here's my challenge to you: try it, track your sleep, and see how you feel, because it's worth it to feel like yourself again Or maybe even better, head to bioptimizers.com/greatness and use code GREATNESS for 15% off your order. And every order is backed by the 365-day money-back guarantee, so you can try it with confidence. That's bioptimizers.com/greatness, code GREATNESS.

Financial growth begins long before the first investment. It comes from understanding what you're building toward. What's at stake, and what success looks like for you. At Oppenheimer, we bring bold thinking guided by the full strength of our expertise to put capital to work building and protecting wealth that lasts generations. Put the power of Oppenheimer thinking to work for you. Wealth management, capital markets, investment banking.

If you're a small business, you know one great hire can change everything. And maybe it's someone to keep the day running smoothly, find the right producer, or take work off your plate so you can focus on what you do best. Finding that person matters. Indeed sponsored jobs get you quality candidates when you need them most. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status It deserves at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

How do you suggest people discover it if they don't know what it is?

People grow into their purpose 2 ways: crisis or insight.

Right, right.

You know, because sometimes when your back is against the wall, you're in a crisis. Then you begin to ask different kind of questions. You know, why am I here?

What am I doing this for? What's the reason?

Why do I keep doing the same thing over and over? And then you start to open up that there's something bigger that has your name on it that's calling you. And sometimes people grow through it. They have an insight. They get inspired. Something happens, and they're able to see, wow, my life is more than what I thought it was. So I think we grow pain, insight. One of my statements is your pain pushes you until your vision pulls you.

Wow.

So we're actually pushed by pain until we're pulled by a larger vision. And so unless—

Interesting.

Yeah.

So what if we're in the middle? What if we're like, well, I'm not pulled by anything, I'm not pushed by anything, I just kind of feel blah? Is it like eventually you're gonna feel pain?

Yeah.

So bad you're gonna be like, okay, I need to step up and do something.

I need to change. Yeah. Because the universe, which is the outpicturing of the intelligence of the presence, is progressive. We're here on planet Earth. The Earth is circling the sun. The sun is moving through its solar system. Every heavenly body has a rotation. Now, every time there's a complete rotation, the frequency of those heavenly bodies are a little higher. The Earth is vibrating higher today than it was 10 years ago.

Interesting.

So everything is progressing. So if you're the same person that you were 365 days ago, you're not really the same person. You've actually gone backwards.

Wow.

'Cause everything has gone forward. So since everything is progressive, it's creating a level of tension to create a level of uncomfortability and pain for you to grow.

Right.

So that blah will become a mess.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it'll eventually turn into pain at some point where you're gonna say, enough is enough.

You know, I do.

I gotta end this relationship, get out of the marriage, I gotta lose the weight, I gotta do something.

The body temple will betray you. Your emotional body will betray you. Something will happen that'll make you say, ooh, what's going on? I better read a book. I better be still. I better go talk to somebody.

Yeah. What would you say is your mission then?

Basically, to help people wake up to the gift of divinity that's within them and to set it free.

How do we set ourselves free?

First of all, you have to break the practices, the habits of mediocrity. The practices of mediocrity—

What are some of those?

Mediocrity means I'm just living a life in which I'm protecting myself.

Scarcity, protection.

Scarcity, protectiveness, fear, worry drives my life. And we move into practices in which we ask ourselves, how can I give today? You know?

Serve.

How can I serve today? How can I share today? If you ask the question, the universe will answer it. This is a principle that the universe— again, the universe is just the outpicturing of the intelligence of the mind of the infinite. If you ask a question, you'll get an answer. So if you ask, how can I give, rather than how can I get, Then the universe is going to provide not only answers, but ways that you have something to give, you see. And many people are still within the reptilian brain of, I don't have enough. So they're trying to get. So they end up creating a very small package of themselves rather than a larger package of, how can I be of service? How can I give?

What happens when we give more and are living in service with every action we take? Obviously, we're going to do things for us and protect ourselves and Pay our rent and, you know, have nice things. But when we have the intention of, I'm here to serve in my career, my business, my team, my family, my mission is service, what unlocks for us?

Now you've opened yourself up that the presence through the universe, which is always giving, it doesn't compromise its nature, it doesn't contradict itself, now finds you worthy. I mean vibrationally worthy. We're all worthy. Intrinsically, vibrationally worthy to express more through you. Doors open you didn't even know were there. You meet people that you never even heard about. Things begin to open up for you. It seems as if it's magic, but it's not magic. You've come into a vibrational alignment with the way things work.

Right.

You know, so suddenly you're in a meeting with somebody, you're meeting somebody, it's a chance meeting, and And something opens up for you and you're able to give your gift. You're able to share something. You're able to bring more prosperity into your life, more joy, more happiness because you're in alignment. How can I serve? How can I be more giving? How can I unleash the power that's within me? You see, now most people, when they're living in this, in the mediocrity, they ask disempowering questions.

Like what?

Why me? What's wrong? Who's to blame? Those questions keep you very narrowly focused. Everybody's looking for a scapegoat. It's his fault. It's my parents' fault. They shouldn't have gotten a divorce. They should have got a divorce. This happened. My teacher did this to me when I was little. Whatever. They'll look for a very limiting— they have a very limiting scope of perception. But if you begin to ask, An empowering question. How can I share what's trying to emerge in my life? What gift do I have to give? How can I cultivate that gift? The universe would love to answer that question.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because the universe, the universal presence, wants you healthy, wants you prosperous, wants you happy.

Why?

Because it gets to express more through you if you are. It gets to come into its own as you. Now, when you've limited yourself, then it uses— then you're wasting energy. That means you're constantly going to the doctor because you're sick.

Mm-hmm.

You're constantly bemoaning your fate because you can't have friendships in your life. You're constantly worried about— all of that's wasted energy that can be used for creativity, you see? So when you ask the right questions, as you indicated, you stabilize your structures first. You have a structure of prosperity, structure of good health, structure of ego management so you can have good friendships.

You mean structure, you mean habits, or—

We live in life structures. There's a life structure of health, body temple. There's a life structure of relationships, you see. There's a life structure of community, how you work with others. You know, these are all structures that we stabilize, which means they're no longer liabilities, they're assets. So if you know how to be with other people without tearing people down and gossiping about them and stealing from them, you have a good foundation of friendships. It's part of your community. Take care of your body temple. You're not going to the doctor all the time because you're sick. You're able to, as you said, pay your rent. You're able to have a level of prosperity.

Mm-hmm.

Now you're not here just to stabilize those structures. Those structures are strong enough. So that you can now give your gift. Mm-hmm.

Because if you're always focused on stabilizing structures or your structures are in breakdown, you're never able to create and give your gift, right? So you've got to be able to have the structures down first, take care of your business, I guess, let's say.

Yeah.

And then you can go beyond it.

Yes. Now you're strong enough. Yeah, you're strong enough to do things that people would say are impossible.

If someone's got one of those structures that are broken, Or they— maybe they've been struggling with it for decades. Maybe it's the relationships, maybe it's the prosperity, maybe it's their health. How can they overcome that to fix it or to stabilize it?

Yeah, well, 2 ways. One, you look at the area of your life that's working first, because most of the time our focus is on what's not working and the vibration of that. So you take one area of your life that works. And you feel into that vibration. And then you begin to what I call shapeshift. You begin to take that energy and begin to feel that way about the area that's not working.

Mm.

Okay? And then you combine that with an articulation of a vision. What would it look like if this area of my life worked? You begin to describe it. Now, the law says that you don't describe what you see, you see what you describe. So as you begin to describe what that area looks like along with the feeling of an area of your life that does work, now you have the feeling and the description both working. And you have— it's practice. You have to do that every day.

Yeah.

You have to feel it, describe it, feel it, describe it, feel it, describe it. And then that begins to be a new baseline for you, and now you begin to manifest.

Yeah.

At that area.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Obviously, you gotta take a lot of action probably in changing certain things, but you've gotta do those, the foundation first.

You do the foundational piece, and then what happens is you're kinda compelled to do a different kind of action. Instead of procrastinating, you realize, oh, I can do this. I can do this one little thing, and that shifts the whole fulcrum of being. Yeah.

What's something in your life you feel like you procrastinated too long on? Maybe something in your life at some point, was there anything where you're like, I waited too long to—

You know, when I started Agape, I procrastinated.

You should have done it 10 years ago or something like that.

Oh, man, I just— I did not want to be a public person.

Really?

I liked my lifestyle. I was a spiritual therapist, so I had private practice. I taught at the university, faculty member. And I ran a prayer ministry, so I had these things going on, and I would do seminars. I thought that was enough.

Yeah, yeah.

So I kept being pulled into starting a community, and it was like, oh, I don't want to start a community. And so many things began to happen in my life— breakdown—

that—

Really? Yeah, just that forced me to say, okay, I'm going against the energy here. And then I called some people together, Some of my students, some of my clients, some of my friends. I said, okay, I'm compelled to start a community. And I started a vision group to start that. So interestingly enough, when that happened, I'll always remember this. I used to have a crook in my neck in which I couldn't turn my neck all the way to the right. I had like partial rotation.

Really?

Yeah, I could go all the way to the left, but I couldn't go to the right. And I'd go to a chiropractor. They'd fix it. It'd be temporarily fixed.

For a day or two, and then yeah.

The moment I said yes to the vision, my neck went pop!

Really?

I had full rotation.

You were like an owl.

Yeah, I was like, what? And I realized that this was a physical manifestation of my resistance.

Wow.

And so I look at that at times in my life, and if I'm resisting something, you know, let me just jump into the fire of it. And eventually things are gonna work out. Don't be afraid to jump into the fire. Yeah.

What questions should we be asking ourselves every morning when we wake up?

First of all, when I wake up in the morning, when I, when I, when I turn and get out of the bed, I generally get out of the bed on my left side. I stand up, I put my hands up, and I just go into a sense of gratitude for being alive and awake. It just— I'm just thankful that I exist, and that gratitude is not attached to anything. I'm not grateful that I have money, I'm grateful that I have health, just grateful.

Just being.

Just being.

Wow.

And then I surrender to life. I just surrender my life to life. Now, some people can call that God. You can call it love. You can call it whatever you want to call it. I just call it life. And then I say, what's my assignment? I ask, what's my assignment? And then I ask for the strength to do whatever my assignment is. So then that's how I wake up. Then I go sit and I meditate. And then I'll go to the gym. Then I'll come back and have a longer meditation. And then I'll ask— the question is determined by whatever I'm working on that day.

Mm-hmm.

So I knew I was coming to see you today. Got out of the shower, and I would just say, how can I be a bright presence on Lewis's show today? How can I be an instrument of articulation and fluency and love and harmony? Let that happen. So I just live in that question. And then I let the question answer itself through me as we met at the door. Yeah. You know, hey, what's going on, man? Like we knew each other for a long time. So there'll be a larger question, and then there's a question that's more pertinent for whatever's on my calendar that day. The larger question is always somewhere in the vantage point of how can I serve, how can I be an instrument of peace or love, or how can I reveal more prosperity in my life?

Yeah. You know, when we are in flow and like, man, just everything is working, just like manifesting magic everywhere, right? What questions should we be asking at that time?

It's, it's, it's, it's, um, you want to stay in the awareness of how can— does it get better than this, right?

When it feels like this is too good to be true.

Yeah, everything is coming my way.

Yeah, but listen, life is infinite. So wherever you are is a new starting point.

Yeah, that becomes the ground floor now, right?

You don't want to relegate yourself and protect that particular spot. And you can ask that question whether things are going good or bad in your perception. If things are— things aren't working out, this plan isn't coming together, you can ask, how does it get better than this? You'll get an answer. If you're in flow, how does it get better than this? And then you stay on the edge of becoming. So you're walking in— you're walking in the, in the state of being and becoming. You're very happy about who you are. The state of being— I'm grateful, I'm in love with this state of being that I am right now. I appreciate it. And I'm becoming. There's more to me, you see. So if we ask the question, How does it get better than this? The universe will answer it.

Yeah.

My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode. And the School of Greatness drops new conversations every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday around money, mindset, healing, manifestation, and relationships. And if you're not yet following the show, then you're missing all of them. Please tap the follow button right now and you'll get notified the moment every new episode drops because The next one might be exactly what you need. Now let's get back to the conversation. There's always that one spot in the house you keep meaning to fix. Maybe it's a room that feels a little tired or a piece of furniture that's seen better days. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value, and trusted reviews. Wayfair Verified products are hand-vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection. Shop thousands of products across every style and budget, whether you're refreshing your space for fall or getting ready for Halloween. Use filters, customer photos, and reviews to find the right fit. More than 20 million verified 5-star reviews help shoppers buy with confidence, plus Wayfair Rewards members 5% back on every purchase. Transform your space With pieces that hold up to real life. Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's wayfair.com. The School of Greatness is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. You know what they say, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. So go with Amica and get coverage from a mutual insurer that's built for their customers, one that looks after what's important to you together. Auto, home, life, and more coverage that fits your unique needs. Amica helps you protect what matters most. Visit amica.com and get a quote today.

There's definitely some moments where I have breakdowns and challenges and struggles and things like that, but over the last 15, 17 years, I just feel like magic occurs. Yeah, magic.

You feel that way?

I feel—

I, I mean, your energy field is very— yeah, very big and it's very beautiful.

I feel like there's When I reflect back and think on it, like, what are the things that I've been doing? It's the things you're talking about. Every day I'm expressing gratitude all the time. When I wake up, I do a gratitude practice.

Yes.

When someone calls my cell phone and they get my voice message, I ask them what they're most grateful for and to share first with me before they ask what they want on the voicemail.

That's beautiful.

I'm just trying to evoke it out of people constantly. And at night, I'm always sharing what I'm most grateful for. Whether I'm writing it down or I'm sharing it with someone. So gratitude has always been a part of my life just because I came from a small town in Ohio and like when things would happen I was like, oh man, I'm so grateful for this.

Yeah.

The next thing I would focus on is really like the vision of what I wanna be, what I wanna become. I'd focus on that vision, kind of what you were talking about before. Just like where am I heading, where am I going? At least where do I wanna go? If there's a different plan for me, okay. But where am I going? And focusing on the direction as opposed to where I'm stuck.

Right.

What I'm lacking. And then the third thing that I really focus on is just joy.

Yes.

Like being joy. Just when you came in, I was just like, opened my arms.

Right, right.

Like, hey, good to see you. And I think when you, when we reflect on those 3 things, gratitude, a vision of where we're going, right, and who we wanna become, and being joyful, we start to attract and—

That's the pocket.

And create magic, right?

That's it.

But sometimes we forget those things and we're stuck in our head or we're stuck in fear and anxiety.

That's why we call it a practice.

Yeah.

You practice, and when you get off, you come back to the fundamentals. Just like an Olympic athlete. They get off, they come back to the fundamentals.

The warm-ups, yeah. The basics.

The warm-ups, the steps, whatever it is, whatever your particular, you know, area is. You come back to the fundamentals and then you find yourself in flow. When you're not in flow, You come back to the fundamentals. Now, we've all heard the statement from certain parents, if you don't stop crying, I'm gonna give you something to cry about.

Right.

But the universe says, if you don't stop being grateful, I'm gonna give you something to be grateful for.

Wow.

It operates the same way. So you staying in that vibration of gratitude, the universe is looking for something to give you. Oh my God, if he doesn't stop being grateful, I'm gonna give him something really to be grateful for.

Wow.

And it comes out of the blue. It comes out of your present paradigm. Like, wow, you didn't even see that coming, you know?

Wow. So, so let me get this clear. When you were a teenager, you changed churches, you, you left church for a while, is that right?

Or were you always—

From the age of 16 to I was a senior at USC, so somewhere in my early 20s.

And so you— there was a stage where you didn't believe in God?

I wouldn't use the word God because the way people taught God was like a man in the sky checking the list twice.

You didn't believe in that version of God?

No, no. My thing was more affirmative values. You know, be a kind person. Don't mess with people. Don't steal. Be loving. You know, I didn't put that under any kind of religion. And it wasn't until I had that— I tell you, I was— When I moved back to LA from Atlanta attending Morehouse College, I was a part of an organization that wanted to change the world by any means necessary. You know, it was a very revolutionary organization. And I was the propaganda commissioner for this organization.

Really?

Yeah. So I'm sitting, and we were closely aligned with the Black Panther Party, you know. And so I was sitting in this meeting.

Is this in the '70s?

Yeah.

Wow.

'70s. So I'm sitting in this meeting and someone behind me said, If you were to take over the world tomorrow, would it be any different? So I turned around to see who said it, but there was nobody there.

Hmm.

I know I heard it. So I'm in the meeting, and it says it again. If you, if you were to take over the world tomorrow, would it be any different? But it was coming from inside of me. And I said, oh my God.

Wow.

So I looked around the room. This guy sitting next to me, I said, this guy's a big ego. He always thinks he's right. This person is very territorial. This person is always contentious. This per— you know, I started looking around the room, and I realized if we were to take over the world tomorrow, there'd be no change.

Mm.

So I left the meeting. Never—

In the middle of the meeting or afterwards?

No, after the meeting I left.

Yeah.

Never came back. The next week at that meeting, somebody in that meeting shot somebody.

No way.

In the meeting?

In the meeting.

No way.

They got into an argument. A guy pulled out a gun and shot somebody.

No way.

But I wasn't there to be a part of that legal situation.

Wow.

I enrolled into USC shortly after that, 'cause I had taken a break from— and I remember going to USC. I hadn't had the awakening. That was the beginning of the awakening.

Right.

And then things began to happen. I started having visions. I started seeing things. I thought I was losing my mind. This is— this was right at the beginning of transpersonal psychology. It wasn't popular the way it is now.

You're 21, 22?

Yeah, yeah, 23 years old, 22, 23. And then I had a lot of experience. I would leave my body all the time.

Wow.

And— but I didn't know what that was. And now we know it's astral traveling or lucid dreaming, you know. But back in those days, it was like— it was very new.

Right.

I started having this dream, and in this dream, these men were chasing me, 3 men. And every night, I would wake up right before they would get me. But every night, they were a little bit closer. So one of the things I did, I stopped smoking weed as a good college student. And, uh, I said, this must be Cannabis sativus.

Wow.

All these experiences and dreams and visions. But they intensified. Everything got more—

When you stopped?

Yeah. More, more, more brilliant dreams, more visions. And I didn't tell anybody because I, I'm in the psych— I was a psychobiology major, so I'm in the psychology department. There's no way I'm going to tell my professor, no, I'm, I'm leaving my body.

He's gonna put you in a mental hospital.

Yeah. I'll tell you a story about that. Matter of fact, I had an internship program. I'll get back to the dream. And we had to go into the mental hospitals as a part of our internship program to work with the people there, write up our diagnoses and give it to our professor, all of that. So I'm playing ping pong with this guy. He's in the mental institution. And we're talking, and I'm asking why he's there. And he's saying, well, I've had these visions and dreams. And he's describing some of the stuff I'm going through.

Wow.

We're playing ping pong, and then I realized for the last 5 minutes, We haven't been talking. It was all telepathy.

No way.

Yeah. I put the ping-pong paddle down and checked myself out of there. I said, I don't know what's going on with me. So fast forward, I'm in this dream. 3 men are chasing me, and I say to myself, this is a dream. I'm not gonna— I'm not gonna force myself to wake up. I turned around. There was a small tent with all these people lined up to go into this tent. I mean, thousands of people. And I knew every single person in line. And I said, these guys can't hurt me. My friends are with me. One by one, they turned their back on me.

Mm.

2 men held me down, and another one plunged a knife in my heart.

Holy cow.

The pain was excruciating, physically and emotionally. And I screamed out. I mean, like a blood-curdling scream. And I died. And when I woke up, I could see this— the presence was everywhere. The beauty that's here is beyond description. The love that penetrated every cell of my being was beyond any love— I get emotional— any love that you'll ever experience. The love of God just poured through my body. The light and the brilliance was everywhere. And everything was different. And from that moment on, I went on a path of discovery as to what had happened to me and, and the process of integrating that into my life.

Wow.

And then that's led me step by step by step into where I'm at today. If people could only see what's really here, but we have paradigm blindness, the perception is so small. Most people only see a fraction of reality, and it's their beliefs, it's their perceptions, it's what they've inherited from their parents, societal fantasies. When all of this is available, we only see this.

What is really here?

There's the presence of abundance, infinite joy, beauty, love.

Wow.

Sometimes a sound effect would have to do.

To experience it, yeah.

It's just, it's just all here, and we're using so much energy to block it.

Why do we block this abundance of love and joy?

And the ego does not know the difference between transformation and annihilation. It doesn't know that outside of the known, in the realm of the unknown, there's so much good and so much power, so much abundance. It tries to eke its joy out of what's known, whereas our good is actually outside of the known, you know. Matter of fact, it was Krishnamurti that had a book called Freedom from the Known. And he would— I used to go see him live at Ojai every year because he was one that I could listen to and I realized he was authentic.

Yeah.

He knew I could just listen, I could look at him. And I, you know, I can go to any spiritual community and I can tell you in 5 minutes If they know, or if they know about it. It's a difference between knowing it and knowing about it. Knowing about it can motivate. Knowing it—it's different. Different feeling.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Krishna Murthy—I said, "Ooh, he knows." Yeah, but so you know, I don't know what question you asked me, but why do we block the abundance of love? Yeah, it's just—it's fear. We want to live. We want to basically because it's uncertain, right? It's uncertain. Yeah, we want to control our life. within the realm of the known. The good is in the unknown. If I hadn't said yes to Agape, I wouldn't have known all the beautiful people I've met and the things I've got to experience. I got to— I had a chance to facilitate the Synthesis Dialogues with the Dalai Lama 4 times, you know.

Crazy.

I got a chance to meet and give Nelson Mandela the Season for Nonviolence Award. I got a chance to to hang out with Bishop Tutu as we were inducted into the Martin Luther King Order of Preachers. I got a chance to run with and hang with Dick Gregory, you know what I mean? And so many beautiful people that have been a part of my life. I wouldn't have known any of that. I got a chance to go to the United Nations and speak at special assemblies many times. But all of that would have been locked into potential, you know? And I don't share those things as bragging. I just like, they're just part of my, Woo! It's just to meet. It wasn't about me, it was about the people I got a chance to meet and hang out with. I wouldn't have met you, right? You know, we wouldn't have been here. I'd have been on my couch. Sure.

You know, I grew up in a small town in Ohio, predominantly white neighborhood, but my parents had— they had 7 exchange students when I was a kid. So I had people from Japan and Brazil and France and and Philippines living with us, teenagers, you know, for 6 months at a time. That would kind of like bring the culture and country to me.

Right.

And then as I started to expand outside of my neighborhood and play sports, I was more of the minority as one of the only white people, right?

Yeah, right.

In that context. So for me, I never really understood racism.

Right.

I'm sure there's moments where I'm judgmental or racist in some ways. I don't even know if I'm aware of it, but everyone to me is a brother or a sister.

Right.

Right, it doesn't matter what color.

Right.

Or where you're from, just 'cause I grew up with these older brothers and sisters from all over the world.

Right.

Where does the root of racism come from for us, and why is it so hard for us to get past seeing Yeah, well, a lot of it's obviously it's learned.

I mean, you don't see a racist or homophobic baby, you know. So it's actually learned.

Wow, okay.

And there are people inadvertently or on purpose that teach that because they're living in the perception of they are the other. They're darker, they're lighter, Whatever the other is. They're from that country.

Different language, different culture.

Different language, different culture, different religion, whatever the case may be. So people live in the context of other, and they haven't yet matured into realizing there really isn't any other. There's only variations on a theme. It's all music, you know what I mean? Right. Some's jazz, some's classical, you know, some's R&B, whatever the case may be. Just variations on the theme. So it's not other, it's just we're the same inside, but we get to express. Now why is that? Because the infinite is infinite. It doesn't repeat itself, it doesn't do do-overs, and it doesn't make mistakes. So all of us are unique expressions of the infinite. It would be boring—

If we all looked the same.

If we all looked the same, you know what I mean? And we were all the same. I mean, can you— First of all, can you imagine going through eternity being exactly as you are right now without any growth? No. It's called hell. You know what I mean? So if you can imagine that if everyone was exactly like you or exactly like me and we just stayed the same forever, that's called hell. So the presence, which is infinite, recreated itself after its own image and likeness according to its infinite nature. We have such a variety. Of beauty and love and joy, and that's what we want to celebrate. And people that are in fear are bigoted, racist. They're mainly living in fear. And then they promote that fear. You know, oh, the Mexicans, oh, the Arabs, oh, the Black people, whatever. You know what I mean? They promote that fear, and they end up living in a very small world.

Yeah. How much of a role does religion play in creating fear in each religious community of people that aren't in those communities?

It depends on the maturity of the spiritual teacher. Religion itself means— the word means to return to the source. So religion itself is supposed to be a vehicle that brings people back to the source.

Back to love.

Back to love, back to connectedness. However, it is sometimes used as a sense of separation, depending on the maturity of the spiritual teacher. So it's supposed to bring you— it's a boat, or, or, or, yeah, a boat or some kind of vehicle to bring you to an encounter with the transcendent. Once you have an encounter with the transcendent, you can celebrate the boat that brought you there, but you're not trying to hang on to it. So it's like, Sometimes we'll say things like, inadvertently, well, he was a Jewish mystic, or he was a Christian mystic. Now, actually, when a person becomes a mystic, they kind of transcend the boat that got them there. There's no such thing as a Christian mystic. There's no such thing as a Buddhist mystic. There's no such thing as an Islamic mystic. Because once you become a mystic, that means you've transcended the boats and you realize we're all one.

Right. You've transcended the religion.

Religiosity.

Yeah, yeah.

And you can still honor.

Of course.

You honor it.

The principles and the foundation.

Yeah, you honor where you came from, but you're not trying to convert everybody to that anymore. So religion in its highest practice brings people together. In its lowest practice, it separates people. And you have people that become fundamental, and they'll say things like, this is the path. If you don't walk this path, you're going to hell. That's a very limited perception. Now, how does a person get there? And there's fundamentalism in every religion.

Yeah.

A fundamentalist simply believes that what they believe may or may not be true, so they have to convert you because they're afraid they might be wrong.

Right.

You see? But once you know something, you don't convert. It's like, you know 2+ 2 is 4. Yeah. So if you go into a room and your teacher is teaching and everybody's talking, no, 2+ 2 is 5. No, 2+ 2 is 8. You're gonna back out of that room. You're not gonna get into an argument because you know two plus two is four.

You know the truth. You know the truth.

So you just say peace and blessings. You do your math, and I'll do mine. But if you're fundamental, if you just believe two plus two is four, if you don't really know two plus two is four, but you just believe it, and you become a very high believer, two plus two is four. I'm gonna virtue. But then you can— you run into trouble there.

Yeah.

So our religions take us beyond belief, if we practice, into a deep knowing. And then you have tolerance and appreciation and compassion for people who are stumbling along their path.

What if it's a family member that has a strong belief?

Yeah.

And you're like, gosh, that just doesn't make sense, or that's not the truth, or that's not the knowing. How do you have compassion for someone that's so aggressively— I don't have this in my life, but I'm just curious for anybody listening.

No, but it's pretty common.

Right? Where they're— it's like family members or friends or partners where they're so against a different belief and they try to pull you apart. How do you have that type of compassion, or what do you say to those people?

Well, first of all, if they're so against something, that means there's fear there. So we have to understand what compassion is. Compassion— I define compassion as the understanding of the lack of understanding.

Interesting. Yeah, the understanding of ignorance.

Yeah.

Or the understanding of a lack.

You understand it. You don't have— you don't agree. You're not in alignment with it. Right, right. But your heart stays open and you bless. And you realize that you cannot assist an unreceptive mind. You can't convince. You can't convert, you can't do anything, so you just leave them alone. You just love them. One day— and you live your life so good that you're shining, you're glowing— and then one day they may ask you, why are you so happy all the time? I just heard that this bad thing happened in your life and you're still grateful.

Yeah.

What, what do you have that makes you strong enough to do that? Now that's a receptive mind. Now you can go back and say, well, you know what? I wake up every day with gratitude. I'm in appreciation for life. But if you try to teach somebody before they're receptive, they will take what you teach and use it against you. And so compassion means I understand the lack of understanding. I'm not going to argue with you.

Right.

I'm just going to let you be.

When have you felt the most loved in your life?

Well, besides that moment of the encounter, that continues to— Undulate through me a lot. I'm very fortunate that I came from an unconditional loving family. My brothers and I, we could have made the biggest mistake, but there was never any withhold of love. You know, I remember being arrested. From your parents? From my parents, yeah. I remember being arrested and my father came to see me. He kind of smiled.

You know, just loved you anyway. Just loved me anyway.

My mom was there. It was like, I'm I'm waiting for it, you know, whatever. Not that they didn't discipline or all of that that they're supposed to do, but there was never any withhold of love. So I come from a baseline of love, which I think is very fortunate. Many people don't come from that. There was abuse.

Yeah.

There was neglect or whatever. I didn't have that. So I have a strong baseline of love, and I have a strong baseline of inclusivity because my mother was very involved in the civil rights movement. So a lot of the meetings were at my house.

Wow.

So we had Mexicans, Blacks, straight, gay, Jewish people. Everybody was in my house all the time talking about the next thing we were gonna do. We were gonna picket this store, we were gonna do this or that. So I didn't really have a— I didn't come to a lot of places where I am now through some kind of revelation. It was just part of my upbringing.

Yeah.

So when I remember being in junior high school and people were attacking this guy, he was gay, and I was like, what are you guys doing? So what? What's it got to do with you? Are you afraid of him? What? You know? But that was just in my household, so it wasn't— you know, so I think I just— the baseline of love of my parents, my grandparents, you know, was just part of the deal. So I was always— I probably was more shocked when I went out into the world and can see brothers and sisters who don't talk to each other. You know what I mean? It's like, you haven't talked to your brother in 8 years? What happened? You know what I mean? Right. That was like—

Didn't make sense, yeah.

No, like my daughter and my son are like, I don't know how many years apart they are, like 9 years apart. They're like best friends, you know what I mean? It's like they just love each other. It's just, and I'm always shocked, not anymore, but it's like, you don't talk to your brother? You don't have to agree with him.

Right.

Just love me. Don't talk about that subject.

Talk about something else.

Yeah. So I think, I think the parental vibration, I'm very, and the, and the more I'm on the planet, the more I've appreciated. Yeah.

How many days does it take to go from total beginner to reasonably proficient at a new skill? Well, if you practice for a focused hour a day, then about 250, which also happens to be the number of reasons to choose T-Mobile. Here's an excellent reason They have the fastest 5G home internet according to Ookla speed test, which you can test for yourself worry-free with their 15-day money-back guarantee. Another great reason, it's fast and easy to set up too. Plug it in and you're online in practically no time with no appointment or technician needed. Those are just a few reasons. Find yours at t-mobile.com/homeinternet where you can check availability and try it for yourself. They're so sure you'll love it, you get your money back if you don't. Fastest according to Ookla Speed Test Intelligence data, second half of 2025. All rights reserved. Redeem money-back guarantee within 30 days of cancellation. You know those pieces in your closet you keep coming back to because they just make getting dressed easier? That's what I look for, especially when I find something that works in a lot of different situations. And one of those pieces for me right now is Quince's 100% organic cotton mesh stitch sweater polo. It's an easy staple to work into my wardrobe, and that's exactly what Quince does well. They focus on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials in timeless, versatile styles, so you're getting pieces you can keep reaching for. And it's not just clothing. Quince brings the same approach to hotel-quality bedding and bath, kitchen essentials, and thoughtful designed furniture. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers and go to quince.com/louis. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/louis.

I want to ask a few more questions. This has been really inspiring. I appreciate you opening up.

Thank you.

When someone is in a relationship that isn't working, an intimate relationship that isn't working, or there's some tension for a few months and there just seems to be a lot of conflict, and when someone is looking to start dating something— someone, start to get together, Both instances—

You're talking 2 different people here? Are you talking the same?

Let's just say 2 scenarios.

2 scenarios.

You're in a relationship, you've been together for a while, but now there's a few months of conflict, or there's a period of time that's conflicting, and you're not sure whether or not you should stay in the relationship.

Okay, that's one scenario.

One scenario. And the second scenario is 2 people meet and they're about to start dating. be the questions that you should ask each other when you just meet to see if it's a good fit to, to come together and be partners? And what should the questions be, you've already been together for a while, but there's some conflict and you're not sure about the future?

Right. So in the one scenario when people are just meeting, there has to be an understanding of what the intention is. Is the intention to be in relationship, or is the intention Is it just a booty call? Is it just, we just want to have fun, we don't want— you know, so depending on what paradigm a person is living in, we have different kind of questions. So if you're interested in a relationship—

Let's say you're interested in a relationship.

Then the question is, first of all, what is— we have to define relationship. You know, a relationship is what we call a joint participation in the good of life. It's a participation in something larger.

I like that.

Okay, that's good. So it's not just— so when we understand that, then I'm not trying to get my good from you, I'm not trying to get my love from you, and you're not trying to get it from me. We're bringing it to the table. You know, it's like this: if 2 fish are swimming in the ocean and one fish says to the other fish, baby, if you give me— if you give me what I want, I'll give you all the water you can handle. So they're swimming in water.

Right.

So we're swimming in love.

Wow.

So I can't give it to you, but I can participate in it, and I can bring that to the table. My loving can bring that to the table. So that means, that means when people come together, they're actually coming together to grow in perfecting their loving.

Wow.

It's a much more mature state of being. When we're younger, we actually think that person can make me happy. That person can't make you happy. You have to bring happy. That means you have to work on yourself, then you bring happy to the relationship. You bring peace, you bring love, you bring forgiveness, you bring compassion. You know, so when people are first coming together, we have to see, are we at the same level in terms of wanting to grow together?

Yeah.

Okay? And then we— and then we're happy, we support each other. I'm gonna support, I'm gonna love to the best of my ability. So it's the same question. If a person's— if a relationship is in breakdown, then are we still growing?

Mm-hmm.

Or has the growth stopped? Is there a chance to keep the growth going? Do we— are we interested in each other? Are we interested in each other's growth? Has the path diverged? This person is really more interested in this. This person is more interested in that. Has the growth stopped? You know, if the growth has stopped and we've gleaned the lessons, Then we have to look at that. Now, the Western culture, America— America is like a very young country, it's a couple hundred years old. When you look at indigenous cultures, some of the Native American cultures, some of the other cultures thousands of years old, they have renewal. For instance, in certain Native American cultures, every 7 years you renew and you relationship— yeah, you see, do we have more juice here or do we not? Now, if you don't have juice, there's no fault. There's no like, you culprit here, you don't love me anymore, you didn't do this, whatever. It's like, you know what, we've learned this, this, this, and this. We're both better people. Let's go another 7. Or, mm, it's time to go our separate ways in this form.

Wow.

In African culture, there's a space where the people will say, maybe this is over. And they'll come to the community and then they gather with the elders and the elders would do divination and say, you guys are finished.

Wow.

You guys have done your job. You can stay together if you want, but you don't have to. Or they'll say, no, no, no, no, no, you still got a little work to do in this area. You know what I mean? So in the Western culture—

So there's no like blame or guilt or shaming or wrongdoing?

That's in Western culture. We're young, we're babies. People think 200 years.

Yeah.

There's been cultures on the planet thousands of years, you know what I mean, that have a deeper insight into the unfolding of the soul. Not just getting your house, 2 kids, and, you know, retiring and dying, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

It's an unfoldment of the soul.

This is powerful.

Yeah.

We'll have to have you come back on and do a whole thing on relationships sometime in the future. I'm curious, at the end of this year, let's say it's New Year's Eve this year.

Yeah.

What would the thing that would make you the most proud of who you've been, become, or created in this life?

Well, I'm always inviting a greater insight into reality, a greater understanding of the awakening process and who I am. So I always want to keep that going. In terms of my personal movement, it's always Forefront, you know, just more— I want to be more myself at the end of the year. And when I look back at this guy sitting talking to you today, I don't want this guy to be sitting here. I want another version to be sitting here. Wow. When I look at my community, I want Agape Community to be more stable. We're in a permanent, permanent temporary place, means we can be there as long as we want. But I want to be closer to actually building our legacy building and our legacy community. where people come from all over the world and celebrate the divine together. I wanna be closer financially where that is concerned. Sure, sure. You know, in terms of a goal. Yeah.

That's cool, that's cool. This is the question—

I wanna be finished with— I want my book to be out too.

Okay, cool, yeah. Well, you have 3 books right now that you brought here.

I think I've written 7, but those are 3.

These are the 3 that are— yeah, 3 are here. You got 7 books? Machine. One's called Life Visioning: A Transformative Process for Activating Your Unique Gifts and Highest Potential, make sure you guys check this one out. I'm gonna read this one today, The Answer Is You. This is gonna be a good one, I'm excited 'cause it's shorter. That's why I read that one. And then Spiritual Liberation. So if you guys wanna feel free, make sure to get this book as well. We'll have it all linked up on the show notes. This is a question, one of the final questions that I ask everyone at the end. It's called the 3 Truths. So you've written 7 books, you're gonna have an 8th one this year, I'm sure you'll have 50 books. But imagine it's your last day on earth. many years from now, you can go as long as you want.

Yes.

But at some point you gotta go.

Right.

Hypothetically, right? And your physical body anyways. And you've written everything you wanna write, you've said everything you wanna say, you've met everyone, you've been knighted 50 times, you've got a copy, you've got a huge theater that's a forever legacy, you've done it all. You've seen your grandkids grow, everything has happened. Complete life, right? But for whatever reason, you gotta take everything with you when you leave.

I gotta take it with me?

You gotta take your information, your work, your books, your words, your videos, all the content you put out in the world, it's gotta go with you. Okay. So no one has access to it anymore. But you get to leave people with 3 final truths. These would be the 3 truths or the lessons that you've lived through your whole life, and this was all people had to To remember in a written form, what would you say are those 3 truths for you?

One, fall in love with who you are, with what has been created. You didn't create yourself. There's a presence, there's a presence that created you out of itself, so you have to fall in love with that, with that presence. 2, you have to Cultivate that potential that's within you. You don't want wasted potential. If you have potential, you have to cultivate it. You don't want to— you don't want to leave and realize, you know what, I should have cultivated that.

I left it on the table.

I left it on the table. I didn't go for it. I didn't even try, you see. And 3, you want to live with not how much you got, but how much did you give away. Before you left? How much did you give away? I think that's the game that we're being asked to play on the planet right now. Not how much we can get, but before we leave, how much can we give away? Now, if we fall in love with ourselves, activate potential, and give away as much as possible, we'll be in bliss, because bliss is the function of the activation of potential.

Wow, those are great truths. I love those. Imagine everyone in the world is putting on headphones right now.

Mm-hmm.

And everyone can understand English for a minute.

Or they hear it in their own language.

Exactly, they hear it in their own language. And you get to share one message with the world where people put their phones away, they're not watching TV, they put on the headphones, they flip on a switch, mic comes on, What is the message you would share in under 60 seconds for the world and what we're living through right now and what we're going through in this time and age? What would be a message you would say?

I would let people know that there's a paradigm that's dying right now. Whenever a paradigm is dying, it makes a lot of noise. So right now, we have the paradigm of greed and hate, separation, supremacy of all kinds of levels, really loud, which means it's at its deathbed. And there's a paradigm that's emerging. The emerging paradigm is a paradigm of unity and oneness, of which now our quantum scientists are now echoing what the mystics have been teaching for thousands of years, that we're all one, that the separation is only in our mind, doesn't really So I would say stay strong. Don't give in to fear. Don't give in to worry. Worry is mentally and emotionally rehearsing what you don't want to happen, you see. So stay out of worry and fear and realize that we're passing through a phase of a dying of the old and a birthing of the new. Stay true to the vision of unity.

Mm.

Have conversations about it. Well, let that be your conversation and watch as you look back at this time in history and the things that we were so afraid of will be in museums. People, you'll have kids in museums saying, Mommy, did people really hate each other because they were in different religions? Mom, Grandma, you mean people didn't like each other because their skin colors were different? Mom, did that really happen? And Grandmama would say, yeah, many years ago. That was the ignorance we were living in, but not anymore, babe.

Wow. Yeah, that's powerful. I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Michael, because this is just like, for me, this is so awakening for me. You know, everything you've been sharing has been resonating deeply with me. And the fact that you've been living your life in such a level of high service for the last 30-plus years is a great example of what's possible for all of us. We don't have to go start spiritual centers the way you have, but we can do things to live in service every single day with our families, our friends, and the people, the strangers around us.

Absolutely.

And so I acknowledge you for showing up the way you did today, for your constant level of service. Everyone I talk to who knows you just says how giving of a human being you are, and for showing me what's possible when all the good that comes your way, you don't have to wear a mask and think you're that much better.

No, yes.

And so I appreciate and acknowledge you for constantly showing up in service and humility and gratitude. It's a great blessing to be with you right now.

Man, thank you. Appreciate it.

Check out these books, Spiritual Liberation as well, The Answer Is You, Life Visioning.

Life Visioning, this is the book that Oprah, she picked out of her 30 years of being on TV, she picked 15 books that she said were the best 15 books to help an individual solve a problem, and life visioning made that 15 cut.

Well, maybe I'll read this one today then. This is great, I appreciate it. Life visioning, very cool. Final question, and you're on social media?

Oh yeah, Facebook, Instagram, @MichaelBBeckwith.

Michael B. Beckwith.

Twitter, the whole deal. And they can go to agapelive.com to actually livestream my services. They can actually see me live.

Anywhere in the world?

Anywhere in the world. Most of the congregation's around the world.

Agape Live.

I mean, I have a few thousand every Sunday, but most of the people are in Canada, Australia, New York, and they're all around the world.

Right. So go to agapelive.com. You can watch it live on Sundays.

Right.

If you are in LA or if you're visiting LA, people can show up to Agape if they go to agape.com. Is that where it's at?

Yeah, they can, they can find it. It's at the Saban Theater.

Okay, perfect.

Right there on Wilshire and, uh, La Cienega.

And when you go and you Meet Michael, make sure you heard him on the show.

Yeah, tell him to come up and say hi.

Let him know. Let him know. Final question for you, Michael, is what's your definition of greatness?

The definition of greatness is constantly being superior to your former self. So you're never in competition with someone else, you're only competing with your former self, so that tomorrow, next year, 2 years from now, you're actually releasing more life energy. than you were 2 years ago or a year ago. So, it's a— so, it's you really becoming more you on a regular basis.

My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode right now because we are on a mission to impact 100 million lives every single week. And, every follow here on this podcast helps us reach more people. Make sure to hit the follow at the top of this show's page right now. It's the single biggest thing that you can do to support the show and the impact of us reaching you every single time we have new episodes. I appreciate you, and I can't wait to see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me, personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, You are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Introducing Toyota's family full of all-electric rides as cool as you are: the adventurous BZ Woodland, the trendsetting C-HR. And the versatile bZ. Zip around town in the bZ with a smooth and sporty driving dynamic. Explore the outdoors in the bZ Woodland with dual motors and available all-terrain tires. Be bold on the road with the C-HR's sharp handling. Imagine what you can do with an all-electric vehicle that gets you. Learn more about the new all-electricfamily@toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. In business, there's no room for guesswork. Every shipment matters. Every deadline counts. When you're trying to keep operations running smoothly, the last thing you need is uncertainty. That's why reliability is at the core of USPS Ground Advantage. Each package moves through a secure nationwide network, tracked from door to door with affordable, upfront pricing, and delivery you can depend on, because knowing your logistics are handled lets you focus on everything else. Visit usps.com/groundadvantage to start shipping with confidence. USPS Ground Advantage. We mean business.