Zooey Deschanel: How To LET GO Of Others’ Opinions & ALIGN With Your MOST AUTHENTIC TRUTH

Welcome back to the School of Greatness, one of the top podcasts in the world. Today we have the incredibly talented Zooey Deschanel. You know her as the star of the hit TV show New Girl and films like Almost Famous. But today, Zoe is here to share a more personal side of her story, from her recent engagement to the challenges and triumphs of her career in Hollywood. Thanks so much for joining us. I think you're going to love this. Now, let's dive in.

There were things that happened in the business that were, for a little bit, kind of felt like we're going to be the end, right? I was like, ooh, is, is this the end? Am I just gonna be a musician?

Really? Like, you thought your career was over?

Yeah, I did. Yeah. Really, I did. I really did.

In addition to being a musician, a writer, an entrepreneur, Zooey Deschanel has been.

In some of our favorite movies like.

Almost Famous or starring opposite Will Ferrell in the Christmas classic Elf and the off thebeat romantic comedy 500 Days of Summer.

I had this thing like when I was a kid, people would look at me and laugh and be mean and so like the same feeling when everyone looks at you and so it would remind me of that. That was really hard. Wasn't prepared for it. Like people running up and, you know, crowding you and that stuff. Nobody gives you any playbook for that. When I let go and I'm not just going, will they like me if I do that? When I kind of am myself, I am successful.

What would you say since starting your career was the biggest challenge you've had to overcome?

Oh, the thing is, a lot of people see things from far away and they're like, oh, you're so successful. But you have like, the holidays are back at Starbucks. So share the season with a peppermint mocha, Starbucks signature espresso, velvety mocha and cool peppermint notes topped with whipped cream and dark chocolate curls together is the best place to be at Starbucks.

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So good to see you too.

Very excited. We, in a past life, we used to be neighbors.

It's true.

We both grew up in the 90s.

Yeah.

And we both got engaged around the same time.

I know, it's incredible.

So congratulations on the engagements.

Thank you. You too.

Thank you. Thank you.

And where'd you guys get engaged, by the way?

Well, here's the interesting thing. I told her at the beginning of last year that at the end of the. By the end of the year, we'll be engaged.

Oh, good. Real.

Because she wanted to start a family eventually. And she was like, you know, what's the plan? So I was like, okay, by the end of the year, I will get engaged.

Yeah.

So I had a live annual event called the Summit of Greatness that I did in Columbus, Ohio, my hometown.

Your hometown.

Which I did every year. And I interviewed her on stage in front of thousands of people. And at the end, you'll like this. At the end of our interview, at the end of the event, I stood up and I said, everyone, you know, let's give it up for Martha. Everyone's clapping at the end of our conversation. And then I'm standing there in front of the audience and saying, oh, wait a minute, I forgot. You know, there's one question I've always wanted to ask someone on my. On my show that I've never asked in 10 years of the show. And so I turned to her and I, you know, asked her.

William Werman. That's so sweet.

And so it was a cool little moment. Her family was there, my family was there.

That's great.

It was a good moment.

Was everybody. Was she surprised?

I think she was, yeah. Cause I was planning to do it later in the year, so it was kind of months before, so it was a good moment.

That's great.

Did you know that you were gonna get engaged at that moment?

Yeah. I had no idea. No. I was really surprised.

Did you guys talk about engagement?

I mean, we had, like. We did and, like, knew at some point it would happen. But we'd been together a long time, like four years, and I just really wasn't expecting it. Especially we were on a tour of Edinburgh Castle, which is, like this amazing castle, and we had the kids with us, and it was kind of like one of those things, like going to a museum, you know, you do with the kids, and they're kind of like, you know.

Did they know?

No, not until the end. Like, the very. Right before it happened, he kind of. Jonathan went in the other room to, like, get mic'd up, and somehow my son, like, saw it, somehow got confused, was like, why is. Why does he have a mic on? You know? Like, he didn't know what a mic was, but he was like, something weird is going on. But they actually held up the sign.

That said, oh, wow, that's cute.

They had the sign. Yeah. It was all. It was all a big surprise. But we finished this tour of the castle, and, like, my son had put this big, giant sticker on me. And actually, earlier on the day, it was funny because Jonathan's like, you know, we're going to this castle. We might meet the royal family, so you have to dress nicely. This was, like, how he got me to, like, not wear jeans.

Wow.

I mean. And I was like, oh, okay. I was like, that's kind of weird. I just thought it was kind of weird. I was like, why would they just be, like, hanging out?

Right. Right.

It's not a. It's not like a castle where people live. It's like, you know.

Sure.

More of like a museum. And so I was like, okay, that's weird. And then it was like, no hats. And I was like, it's like, all these rules. Yeah, there were, like, a ton of rules in the calendar. And he goes, I don't know. He's like, you better iron your clothes. And he was like, actually, I'll iron it for you. Like, he ironed my skirt for me. And I was this. I was like, he's really, like, really.

Wants, like, make sure you do your nails. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, he didn't actually tell me. And my mom was actually like. She was like, you need to get someone to do her hair and makeup or something. And he was like, no, she's fine. Which, luckily, I, like, I luckily had a manicure, all that stuff.

Maybe he knew you already had that.

So he knew it. Otherwise he might have been.

I took her to go, like, the Week before, I was like, oh, we should go, you know, we're going to get a manic. Just get a manicure. I was like, I'll get a foot rub or something, you know, which I smart. I'm like, I'll go with you.

Yeah, yeah. All these things you have to think of because they take pictures of your items, Right?

Exactly.

Close ups.

You know, both of us growing up in the 90s, I'm curious. I didn't really learn about how to create healthy relationships growing up. I didn't learn. There wasn't as much tools and information and books about love and vulnerability and intimacy.

Yeah. Not as much info, like, not as much accessible info. Right.

You know, I didn't. If therapy wasn't an option growing up, really, it was more like being from Ohio is never like, talk about your feelings type of thing. When I got older and I started to do kind of like healing work and learn about relationships and vulnerability and intimacy, I was like, wow, there's so much more I needed to learn about love.

Right.

And intimacy. Since we're talking about intimacy and love, I'm curious, did you have a good. Did you give a good toolbox of how to be in great, like, how to express love and receive love growing up, or was it more challenging for you to experience love?

I have like, such great parents and like a great. My sister is great. So great. Like, I have a really great, like, family unit that I came from and I went to a school that was very, like, encouraging. Like, we had basically every year from seventh grade on at my school, we had like, kind of like a weekly group therapy kind of session. Really? Yeah, it's called the, it's called their, like, mysteries program. And, and everybody learns how to express their feelings and. And it's, it's great. But I, I still have learned so much just as an adult, like, you know, going to therapy. I, you know, all those things I have found to be incredibly enriching to my life. And I'm always learning and always discovering. I'm very much like a self improver. I'm always looking to get better. There's always something to work on, and that's always how I've been. I'm like, give me notes, I'll take them. Yeah.

Even in acting and everything, I want.

I want to always be improving. I want to get. I'm always looking to get better. That's just really in everything. Yeah. Because like, if you're just. What? I just want to stay in the middle. No, I want to keep going. I Want to get better at everything all the time.

Sometimes you hear the stereotype of, you know, actors or actresses that can't take feedback because they get so criticized and they feel like they're not good enough. But you are more of like, I want to dive in and give me feedback.

You have to. I think, partially, too, because I'm actually really. I'm actually like a very direct person myself. So I'll, like, say what's on my mind.

You're like, I don't like that.

And then if somebody pushes. Yeah. I'll be like, I don't know. Tell me why. I will only go, I want to know why. But, like, I'll push back, hoping that somebody will not like a rude way, but hoping that somebody will give me why and we can come to a better understanding. I think it's like, I really want to do the best job possible, you know, and that. That's always the goal, you know, like, if you are respectful and nice and you say, I don't know, I don't agree with that. But you still, as an actor, it's part of the job to. To take direction, you have to, wow, if you can't trust your director, then you're in. You're kind of screwed. You're screwed. Yeah. Sometimes you have to push back because you don't understand, or sometimes you think maybe they have the wrong idea and you'll do a better job doing something else. And I always think, like an actor, it's an actor's job to know the character better than anybody else, really.

Better than the director or the producer.

Because they have a lot of things to think about. Producers thinking about, like, very, very, very many things on the outside of the production. The director's thinking about, like, everything overall. They certainly will have, like, a lot of ideas about, you know, it's kind of more big picture director's, more big picture actors, more like, it's more, you know, micro.

Right.

And every job, pretty much, other than director and producer on film set is very micro. So it's like, you know, you have a lot of people doing very, very, very detailed work. And I think of an actor, you're just doing very, very detailed work on your character. So if you think something's off, you have to say something. But, like, again, you also have to be able to take direction. So it's kind of like you have to be quite flexible.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

So you're big into growth and want to become better.

Oh, always. Yeah.

What would you say? What would you say? Since starting your career was the biggest challenge you've had to overcome.

Oh, since starting.

Oh.

Like, oh. There have been so many. I mean, it's like, there's so many times where you're like. The thing is, is a lot of people see things from far away and they're like, oh, you're so successful, but you have, like. You have, like, moments of great success, and the. You have moments where that success dips, you know, Especially since I started out doing movies. Movies are like, you might have, like, a big movie, and it is marketed to everybody, and there's tons of publicity around it. And, like, everyone's hearing about you. And then you get, like, a ton of attention. Maybe like a lot of offers, you get, you know, a lot of accolades. People come up to you. You know, you get that. And then, you know, when that marketing goes away and people aren't seeing, then those things kind of ebb and flow a lot. And you. You feel that.

Feel like when you get all the attention for three to four months and then, yeah, maybe crickets for a year, six months.

I mean, it's nice to have a. It's nice for me, it's nice to have breaks from, like, if you're, like, being wrecked, like, the people maybe, like, say, like, Taylor Swift, right. Is like, Taylor Swift can't go anywhere every day, you know, and that's challenging that you can't go. And it's like, sometimes you just want to go and be a normal person. Go to the grocery store and, like, not have people, like, looking at you all the time. I think. I think it's nice to have some breaks, but I definitely think, like, you know, as you. That hopefully as an actor, you have, like, a long career and then you have. You go through phases of your life and you're going to fit different. You know, as an actor, you play different parts, so you're going to fit into different categories over the course of your career. And that you have these. It can be awkward transitions between.

Really?

Yeah, very.

What's the hardest transition you've had to make in your career?

I don't. I don't know if I would say, like, I mean, it's definitely like. Like, I mean, I. I really did think about. I mean, it wasn't even like, my. Like, it wasn't even. There were things that happened in the business that were maybe for us, for a little bit, kind of felt like we're gonna be the end, right? Of, like, I was like. Cause I do music, too. And I was like, there was A time, I remember it was like, I was doing indie movies like, my whole 20s and was successful at that and doing. And then, like, some bigger comedies and stuff like that. And all of a sudden, around the end of my twenties, the. A bunch of the studios cut their slates, like, majorly. So then they cut out those, like, comedy kind of movies that they would do, and they cut the, like, parts of the studio that would do the smaller.

The stuff you were working on.

Yeah, the stuff that I did all got cut. Right. And then they were making superhero movies only. And that's cool. I like superhero movies. But, like, that's not the only thing I like. And that's not the kind of stuff that I cut my teeth doing. And so I was like, ooh, is this the end? Am I just gonna be a musician?

Really? Like, you thought your career was over?

Yeah, I did. Yeah. Really, I did. I really did. And I toured. I remember I toured, like, for a year straight. I was just, like, not working on anything. Yeah, I just toured. And then New Girl popped up. I remember getting that script. And I hadn't thought about, like, back then. It's funny now. We just think TV and movies all the same. Everyone, like, all these movie stars do tv. Back then, like, people who did movies did not cross over to do tv. It was, like, considered this weird thing. Like, there was, like, some line of delineation, and it was like, what are you doing? Why would you do a TV show? Was like, maybe occasionally, don't ruin your career. Yeah, yeah. And maybe it would be an HBO show. Somebody would do Showtime or something like that. But. But. But doing a network TV show was, like, not done. Wow. And I remember being like, that's stupid. Why would that be? You know? And I kind of thing my own kind of, like, a little bit of rebelliousness inside me going, well, that's ridiculous. Why would I let that define me? Like, if the material is good and I trust the show creator, which I did, she's, like, unbelievably talented, and I know who's involved. Like, Jake Kazan, who directed the pilot, like, I've known forever, and he's extraordinarily talented. If I know all these people and I know they do quality work and they are, like, doing something that I want to work on, why do I care whether it's, like, a movie or a TV show? You know, obviously doing a TV show is, like, a little bit more like getting married. So you're kind of like, you're in it. In it. You could be in it. For a really long time. But, yeah, I remember being like, nah, I'm not listening to that stupid, like, old idea that, like, film actors aren't supposed to do tv. So I just did it and it paid off so. So well. And then. Then all these film actors that I knew were coming up and going, I want to do a TV show. I remember, like, famous, very famous people. Yeah. Coming and saying, oh, I want to do tv. And I was like. I was like. I felt good about the fact that I had done something that was a little bit scary, you know, but it paid off, you know.

Yeah.

That's why I think. I think you have to go where, like, as an actor, anyone creative, go where the material is. Don't think about the medium so much, really, because, like, yeah, who cares where it is? Whether it's a play, it's like, you know, a podcast, you know, TV show, you know, a web series, a movie, a little tiny indie. If the material is good, that should be the thing that's the most important.

So what makes you decide what you want to work on now? And would you do, you know, a small web series if the material was incredible now, or is it.

It would have to be, like, really incredible. No, I would do. Honestly, I go where material. It's material and who I'm working with, teaming and the team, you know. Yeah. Because obviously, I mean, I've also, like, read scripts and been like, I don't get this. And then it turns out to be great because the director knows how to make it great, make it great.

Interesting.

Ye.

Script that you. That you read and you said, nah, I don't really like this. But then it later went on to be like, this big success.

I'm so many.

Really.

Yes. Well, because sometimes it's like, I don't get it because I don't, like, because it's not for me. There are things like knowing our own. Like what we are great at, you know, is. Is also important. Like. Like, I always want to know I'm gonna add value to something. Like, if I don't get it, I'm not gonna add value. You know, I. I'll be like, floundering. But then I'll be like, there have been times where I've read something and I'm like, I don't really get it. And then I'll see some actress just, like, crush it. And I'm like, oh, she knew how to do that part. It's just, like, who they are and their angle on it. And. Yeah, I mean, it's happened so many times.

How have you learned how to, I guess, deal with rejection or with not getting the part? You know, when I look at your list of credits, like, it seems like everything that you've ever auditioned for, you've gotten is what it looks like. There's so much you've worked on. Right. And so many successes. But I know just being in la, that you've probably done many rounds of auditioning.

Yeah.

Especially earlier in your career where you just go on audition and you don't get it.

Oh, yeah.

How have you learned to navigate and I guess go through that process of rejection?

Yeah, it's really hard at first, and I'm really happy that I did it. I was like, in high school when I started, so it felt like, oh, this is bonus. You know, it was like, what I really wanted to do, but I didn't think, oh, I have to make it now when I'm 16 years old. I thought, like, oh, hopefully by the time I'm 25, I'm successful. But I wasn't like, oh, I need.

To be crushing it as a teenager.

Crushing it as a teenager. So I kind of knew that it was, like, recreational. But it did mean a lot to me and I would take the rejection pretty hard.

Really?

I mean, yeah, I'm an emotional person, so I would be like. I remember, like, crying and, like, was. It was. Sometimes you get really attached to something. Like, you work on it, you really.

Want it, you're practicing it, you're. Yeah.

Yeah. But then I. I think I realized, you know, after a lot of that, that I don't know, you, you, your. Your skin gets thicker and you start to just go, well, if they don't, you know, they don't get me. Or maybe I wasn't the right person for it. Like. Like, I was just talking, you know, that, that, that it. It's not. It's not an insult to you if you don't get a part. It's not like, oh, you suck because of that. I think actually. Actually, the best thing, now that we're talking, the best thing that happened to.

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I remember the first time I was involved in the Other side, on the other side of casting. Like I had already been casting something and they wanted me to. And read with all the guys coming in and.

A TV show or a movie.

It was a movie. Yeah. And they.

So you had the part where like we want to see you test with other people.

Exactly. They wanted to see me like read with a bunch of guys who were coming in to play like my boyfriend and see, you know, chemistry and see how they were. And I remember that the guy who was actually the absolute best actor, he was so incredible. Was just not right for the part.

Interesting.

And there was another guy who was more like limited in his skill, but he was right for the part and was the one who got it. But I, I kind of was like, oh, I, I wish I could just re. I mean, I didn't ever tell the like, actor that didn't get cast, like, because I, I never saw him again. But like, he was incredible. Right? And you're like, oh my God, what an actor. Like he just taking everything in in a way that like I admire so much. But it's not about you. It's about, it's not about your skills. It's about an overall Persona. It's like there's certain parts I'm just not going to play because I don't represent that to people. You know, it's like there's just certain things that, you know, you don't work in that part. And that was, that was it when.

But I feel like a lot of people take things so personally when their project doesn't work out or they launch a book, buy it or whatever. People aren't.

It's really hard.

Hard. So how, when did you learn to not take things personally and to realize it's not about me and my talent? It's just I, I don't play the character the way that needs to be played.

Yeah.

And it's just not the right fit. When, when was that? How old were you when you started?

I was in my twenties for sure.

Really?

I mean, it took me a while cuz I started when I was really young. But yeah, I was definitely in my 20s. And you know, it's still like, still things keep connecting. Like as I get older I'm like, I.

Things.

I, I'm less affected by those things. But every once in a while I'm like surprised by something that'll be like, whoa, that hurt, you know? Really? Of course, yeah.

What was the last time you had that experience though? Because I'm assuming at this moment people just say, we want you for this part. You probably don't have to audition that much. Or maybe they just want to do a quick read.

Audition. Very.

Yeah. Hey, we want you. If you want it, you got the part, right?

I mean, it's not so much that stuff, it's just, I mean, I can't even think. But I mean, I'm just saying like, I'm still surprised by, you know, I can't think specifically. It's not the same stuff because it's not like going on and reading and then, and putting my heart into an audition and then practicing for practicing. Yeah. You know, but I actually, you know, I, I don't think that stuff ever goes to waste because even if you're like, you work really hard on something and you put that energy into a character, like you end up using it later in like another character. I always think like, you work really hard on something and people remember when you work hard and you, you know, people remember. So it doesn't, it doesn't go away. So it's like when you do a good job, people remember and maybe in three years, yeah, they might go, you know what? She wasn't right for that part. But we really liked her and she did, you know, she put so much effort into that. It is really appreciated when, when you, and, and I know for myself, there are times when I don't have, you know, when I really like say I still have, you know, I still will like meet, you know, directors and producers and things. And when I take the time to really study their past work or study the script that, that they're, you know, making, I really pays off. Like if I haven't done the work, I don't come across as well, you know, so all those things, I mean, we, we still are freelancers. Actors still have to prepare and show up, you know.

Wow.

Yeah.

What is the, the part you played or the, the project you worked on that taught you the most about yourself? Maybe it was, maybe it was a well known thing that people know about and see or maybe it was something small that no one really ever saw. But what's the part you've got played in your career that taught you the most about you?

I mean, probably, like, getting to do New Girl because it was so long. Like, it was over, you know, seven seasons. And, I mean, it was like eight years of my life. And. And before that, you know, because I would do, like, go from film to film. You show, like, less of yourself with a film. And to some degree, it's like, I was probably playing less lead roles, more like, you know, like, large supporting roles. Like, you know, and you show just, like, more. You're kind of, like, picking and choosing, like, what you show. And that's, you know, an important thing in terms of, like, telling the story. Sure. But when you're telling, like, this very broad story and it's very long and you have, like, you know, a limited number of, like, lead characters, and you show a lot of yourself. And before that, I also was not necessarily known for doing that kind of a little bit more broad comedy. Like, I wasn't doing that, and I knew it was something I could do. That was like, when I read that script, I'm like, I know I haven't done this before, but I know I can nail this. It was like a really, like. It was a really, like. I felt extremely confident. Like, I know I can. I can. I know I can do this, and I know nobody thinks of me as this yet. Like, I. My first thing, when I was really young, first in my career, and I remember I would go to auditions and I would do movies, and I would get cast in a lot of these, like, kind of sardonic, deadpan, sarcastic kind of roles and then move in playing, like, girlfriends and things like that. And it was just different. It was different from a lot of the stuff I'd done. So it was. It was fun to get to be like, I can do. You know, it's, like, nice when, you know, like, you know, you're like, I haven't done this, but I know I can nail it. Wow. That was, like. It did teach me a lot to have confidence in the things where, like. Like, I know I can value ADD here.

Wow. So eight years of your life for one project.

Yeah. Long time.

What would you say were the three biggest lessons you learned about yourself during those eight years? Maybe personally in your life and your career? What opened up for you during that.

Time that you got to get enough sleep.

Sleep.

Sleep is so important.

Your health.

Yeah, I think, like, yeah, I really took. We were Just working so hard. Our first like three seasons, we were like not getting like. I mean, we're just like working so hard and just like spending so many hours on set. It's like. And I got into like horseback riding at that time. I like spending outside, like the time I spent like outside, like with animals. I would take like all these vitamins to help with my, like make sure that I didn't get sick. I did not get sick ever. Everyone was like, like, couldn't believe it. But it. That was because I really started, like really taking care of myself.

Really?

Yeah.

Did you feel yourself starting to get, you know, tired or exhausted from just all the shooting?

So exhausted. Yeah, we were all so tired. Oh my gosh.

Like 16 hour days, just non stop all the time.

Yeah.

Really? And the season was what, three to four months, roughly, or less?

Eight months.

Eight months for the season?

Yeah. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's intense.

It was intense. Yeah. I mean, we all. We spent more time around our cast mates, like at our, you know, like our crew than we did around our families.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay, so that's one lesson. What else opened up for you during that time?

I also, like, I mean, I ended up. I had both my kids while I was on the show.

Wow.

So I did like, how is that.

Being a mom and being a star of a show and having.

That's really hard.

It's like you have two high, demanding jobs.

Yeah.

You know, being a mom and being a star of a star show.

I will say too that my sister was on the same lot as me shooting her show.

Wow.

And also had. She had her younger baby around the same time I had my older one. So they're just a couple months apart.

So they got to be together. You got to be together.

Yeah. It was nice because she was such a great. She's such a great role model. She's a very hard worker. She's a very good mom. She just like, she gave me so much guidance, you know, like that use it. I think, like, definitely, like, I'm not one to ask for help very much, but like getting advice from people can really just be so helpful.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

She there the whole time filming as well?

Pretty much almost. I think the last season of my show she was done, but she was pretty much because her show went like 11 seasons.

So she's getting those royalties.

Yeah, I was gonna say those. The dramas tend to go longer when they're.

Wow. So what was it like growing up with an older sister who was also in the industry? New Parents in the industry. What did she teach you that really helped you in your career?

Well, I actually started before her, even though she's older than me. I mean, she wanted to do it like at the same time. But I. She went to theater school in Boston and I was here in LA in high school and I was like, I had the hustle in me and I was like, I have to do this. And so I started auditioning when I was like 16. But she was in college and not like, what was just focused on her studies. I mean, she was studying acting but. Or theater and acting. But she wasn't trying to book gigs. No, I was trying to book gigs like in high school. I don't know. It's crazy to me now to think my mom had this thing because from the time I was little I was like, I have to do this. And she's like, okay, that my parents made a deal with me because they were like, we know a lot of child actors and we're like, don't turn out well. Just because it's just, it's a lot and you have to have a special temperament, which they're like, you know, I have like child actors that are really good. It's like you have to like, be okay doing something over and over again. And like, you know, it was. Yeah, it's a different skill than being like a grown up actor. Right? So they're like, once you can drive yourself to auditions, you can, you can, you can get an agent. And so basically when I was like 6, 16, I was like, no, I wasn't out. I mean, still living with my parents. So my mom like, is an actor. My dad like, is a cinematographer and a director. So I had like a lot of. I mean, I can't, we can't like, I can't possibly emphasize enough how much like creative help I had from my family unit because everyone is. It's funny because people will be like, oh, like nepotism. I'm like, no, my dad's a dp. Like, no one's getting jobs because their dad's a dp. Like, it's, it's definitely not. But you know, my dad is a great creative mind and like, he such a talented person. So like incredible. Like, like knows everything about film. My mom is a great actor and is so nurturing and so like, they both like, my mom would coach me. Like when I didn't have an acting coach, she would like, coach me. She would help me read lines with me. She'd be so supportive. My dad, I'D have, like, so many great discussions about film and filmmaking with my dad. Like, they both would help me. So, I mean, my dad would also, like, read lines with me and give me great direction and they. I mean, and then having a sister who's an actor, it just. It makes you just like, automatically have a community. And how much our communities help us, whether it is our family or whether it's like our found communities, our found families. That's so important to, you know, keeping going. Because this is a business like the one I'm in it. It's easy to want to just go away because it can be like. Like, you just have to not go away. You have to just keep sticking it out because you can have long periods of time. I remember, like, I quit college to do the movie Almost Famous. And I mean, it was my first year of college, and I. I basically was supposed to just come home and do the movie and go back. And then I just made this weird decision to, like, ship all my stuff home from Chicago. I was going to Northwestern. I just was like, I'm just going to ship all my stuff home. So I shipped all my stuff home, I do that movie, and then I got no work for a year. And I was just like, yeah. And I was like, what do I do? You know, because you could have a year where you don't work, or even, like, last year, we're all, like, on strike. Like, you could have a terrible year where you don't work or the pandemic or all kinds of things, and you just have to be like, no, I like this enough. I'm just gonna just hope, yeah, next year. Yeah, keep doing it.

Did you ever have a time where you thought, oh, maybe I won't get booked again?

Yeah, like, after I had kids, you know, you change a lot. Yeah. I mean, but you're on a Star.

Show and you're crushing it and you're.

You know, ratings, and you still have those feelings.

Really?

Yeah. I mean, I. I thought. Not that I wouldn't get booked again, but it does feel. It is. I will say, actually, it's not just about kids, but when you're on a show that everyone knows, like, you know, for a long time, and that's what people know you as, and it goes away.

It's hard to get booked again.

Sometimes it is, because people think of you as that. And I think, especially, like, me in particular, like, my face and, like, who I am was very much associated with that brand. And, yeah, you get. You get a little nervous, like, what who am I now? Like, who. There was a. There's a. There's a short film by Jonathan Demme, like, with Susan Sarandon and Christopher Walken called who Am I this Time. It's about, like, actors. And I always, like. Like, the title, it, like, will ring in my head. It's like, who am I this time? But it is scary to go, well, that character's behind me. I can't just, like, be that character again. I have to find new characters. And it's like, well, who am I now?

So after New Girl ended, was it a challenging time for you?

Yeah, yeah, it's hard. I mean, also, though, that was my family, you know?

Like, so you're seeing each other every day?

For eight years. For eight years, and then you all separate. Yeah. And we like these inside jokes, and we, like, make each other laugh every day, and we have, like, our rapport. And I miss that, you know, You. It's weird to go from that to, like, seeing them, you know, it's not like we can. There's. We'll never again see all those people every day. You know, it's kind of like graduating from high school and moving on. Yeah. Like, you're with your family every day, and all of a sudden you're not, like.

And everyone moves on to different relationships and jobs and opportunities.

Yeah. And even if you go back and you're, like, with your family a lot, your friends from high school, they all scatter around the country. It is a huge transition. It's a long time to spend with people.

Years.

A long time. It's a long time. It's longer than high school. I mean, it's like, that's a lot.

It was a decade. You know, it's interesting because I used to work out with one of your co stars, with Max.

Oh, nice. Yeah, he loves to work out.

CrossFit. We still.

I was just in CrossFit. Yeah.

I was just in CrossFit classes with him when I moved here to LA. And this was kind of like, I guess, you know, maybe the height of the show or the first few seasons. So I knew who it was. And we were always, like, kind of competing against each other. And one time we were, like, just chatting after a workout class, and we were like, hey, you want to grab a smoothie and just catch up? And I was just like. I didn't even know his story, but I was like, how long you been out here? He's like, I've been in LA for a long time. And I've been essentially for 10 years busting my butt every year, feeling like I'm not going to make it. Getting a little job here and there that would keep me in the industry right until New Girls showed up.

Yeah. He worked so hard, Max, like, a decade before he got it out. Yeah. Who would. Like, everyone knew was. Was so talented, but just hadn't had the right break for him. You know, we were talking about earlier, like, oh, yeah, sometimes you're great, but you're not right for that part. He just hadn't had that part. You know, it's like Schmidt was like.

He was it perfect. He was perfect for that.

Yeah. I mean, he was probably, like, the easiest casting we did.

Really?

Yeah. I mean, him, he and Jake Johnson were the first two people other than me that were cast. I read with everybody, pretty much like, everybody that was coming in a second time. I. I went and I said right away, as soon as I was cast, I said, I want to read with everybody because I want to see how they are with me. Not just like, how they are, just generally. It's like, how. How do we play off of each other? Like. And I also wanted to be there to make people feel comfortable because I know how hard it is when, like, you walk in a room. It can be so intimidating. And I'm like, I can be the person to go, like, it's okay. You know, like, let's have fun. Yeah, let's have fun. So I just kind of wanted to be there to, like, make everybody feel comfortable.

And what was that like reading with both of those guys? Did you know right away, like, oh, these. These gotta be the guys?

Yeah. I mean, Max was pretty obvious. And Jake. They both were. Were pretty obvious. I mean, Max was. Was just like. Had that. He. It was like. And. And again, I think all that stuff had, like. And. And Jake was similar, like, where he had been kind of toiling away for a while and hadn't quite hit the right part. But he. You know what, the thing about Jake, what he did was Max just like, was Schmidt and, like, figured out how to play that part, like, guns blazing. Jake played. A lot of people played at the Nick character. Like, like little bits like. Like kind of more like. There were lots of. Pretty much everybody that I read with was. Was good, you know, it wasn't like. There were no bad actors I read with. They were all great because they were being called back. But what Jake had was like. He was. He was like. He made it all feel natural, real. It wasn't like he was playing at it. Like, he was Playing at jokes. He was playing it like he, he, he was, it was being it. Yeah. Which is the difference to me between something really succeeding and then just something being kind of like not bad, you know?

Right, right. That was a good job. But it wasn't like it.

He, he got the character in a way that, that was like he, he was, he was real.

You know, we were talking right before we started about being original and.

Yeah.

Kind of leaning into your uniqueness.

Yeah. Yeah.

You also mentioned, and you've talked about this before, kind of growing up ADHD and feeling, I guess, maybe not accepted in certain moments or feeling shut down or feeling like people needed to put you in a box or whatever it might be. I grew up, you know, very dyslexic and still.

Yeah.

Still struggle reading and writing today.

Yeah.

And you were saying beforehand about how if you can learn to be original with the, I guess, difficulty you have or the challenge you're facing with, that can be a beautiful asset to yours later in life.

Yeah.

How did you learn to be original with your unique gifts or challenges and not let them hold you back, but allow you to blossom?

Yeah.

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That was like the journey of my school years was learning to be myself like And I've always been a pretty. I always thought like, I'm. I always felt like I was normal, but then everybody else would be like, everyone's weird.

Yes.

So I think being like, being my authentic self, but still, you know, thriving within a system, that was the journey of my, you know, like, schooling years. And I think when I was really young, my, My big challenge was that. That again, I think I mentioned, I'm a very direct person. And so as a kid, I didn't know, like, kids are supposed to be like, quiet and, And I would just be like, I don't like that. You know, like, I mean, like a little kid, you know, I didn't know. I'm like, that's just how I felt. And I didn't know you weren't supposed to say that. And I'm not sure exactly how that came about in my personality, but it's just kind of like how I saying something like that to a teacher, not the best idea, but like learning how to, you know, be in a system, navigate the system, be a good student. By the time I graduated high school, actually by the time our records counted, I was like the best student. Really. It was so funny because I went from being like this, like, little misfit wild, like, in the principal's office every day of elementary school. Got diagnosed with ADHD when like, no, like, very few girls were. Because I wasn't like, crazy hyperactive. I was just like, distracted. I was very distracted. I was very distracting. I would talk to my neighbors.

I was chit chat at the desk.

I make jokes out loud. I have a very loud voice. Yeah, I do all kinds of stuff you're not supposed to do.

Sure.

And then. But by the time I was like, in eighth grade, I was like, I want to be a good student. I want to thrive in this system. How can I do that? Like, and then I started, like, seeking out answers. And I remember my mom being like, well, like, you know, like, maybe just listen sometimes and just talk, like, right away. Like, you know, like, okay, that's good advice. And then maybe like, if you want to make more friends, like, ask people about themselves. Don't just talk about yourself. And like, those things that I didn't know naturally, those were things I had to learn. It wasn't like, I know, like, I'm kind of outgoing naturally, but like, I didn't have like, every social skill, just like, sure, automatically. So there were a lot of things that I, I learned and really, you know, helped me thrive. And then like, I wanted to be A good student. So I actually spent, like, pretty much all my time in high school studying. Wow. Yeah. I was like. I was like, I want to be a good student. I know some people do it naturally and just, like, don't have to study and they can just waltz in. But I know I, like, learned. That's not me. I have to study. I have to work hard. Like, what's important to me, theater and academics. And I'm just going to focus on those things. And knowing that I. I don't. I can't just, like, do all that and, like, party and, like, you know, have a crazy social life. I realized that focusing on those things because that's what was important to me, that I was able to achieve those things, because I, I. I really put my laser focus on it. And then by the end of high school, I graduated with honors. Like, I was, like, crushed it. Yeah, exactly. I got, you know, it was like, I got a really good SAT score. Like, all this stuff. But it was only because I studied and I. I worked really hard. Not because I just, like. I think a lot of people want you to think they're just, like, naturally gifted. And maybe some, you know, there are people who are. But that was you, not me. I had to work hard. Wow. Yeah. But I realized how much applying myself, how. How rewarding that was, you know, and.

It probably set you up for success with your acting career as well. It's because you're really preparing for all the roles that you did.

Yes. And that's, like, what I try to impart on my children. I think I was telling you that, like, my daughter, like, was in a play, and I just, like, I told her, like, we gotta go over your lines every day. And then there was, like, one day, she was like, well, I don't want to. I was like, well, then maybe you don't want those lines. And then she's like, no, no, I do. So we, like, really, you know, I. I think if I impart anything to them, it's that just, like, working hard, it's not a. It's not a burden. It's like a privilege. Like, if you have that, like, if you have the, you know, the inspiration to work hard, that means you really like something.

Yeah. It seems to me I was talking with a Dr. Becky who's a big parenting expert. You know Dr. Becky. Yeah. I just had her on last week.

Yeah.

And she was saying that one of the biggest challenges with parenting and kids today is the lack of hard work in kids.

Yeah.

Kind of parents trying to rescue the kids a lot and make it easier so they're less complaining or less having fits and just happy all the time.

Right.

And she was saying how that's one of the biggest challenges for kids to develop strong character in themselves, strong self confidence by going through adversity and putting them in more adversity.

Yes.

It sounds like that's something you like to do as well, is make sure that they're instilled in hard work and discipline. Why do you think so many parents today struggle with that?

Well, I think it's like, not about, it's funny you say discipline and I'm.

Like, not discipline, but just the right word.

I think people associate it with the wrong things. Discipline means teaching. Right. But people go, oh, discipline. They think it's like, hard. And it's like, no, it's really like, it's really about, it's about feeling inspired to do something and that we know we have a practice where we do something every day, even if it's not, you know, even if it's not like the most fun thing, but we leave 20 minutes for it or whatever, even five minutes, like, leaving that time to devote to something. And I think it's, it's more about like those, those practices and. Yeah. And don't try not shying away from having a hard time. Like, not everything is going to be easy all the time. And I can, I can tell you, like, you know, we all have our challenges and that those challenges, like, to make us who we are. And I do think, like, that the hardest things I went through definitely helped me so much.

Really?

Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

What was the, in your mind, one of the most challenging things you had to overcome that supported you the most later in life?

Yeah. Like, oh, like I would say, like, I mean, look, it's, it's funny because they were like, I, I said it like, a long time ago. And then sometimes people, like, make fun of you and you say like, oh, like, I, I, I had a lot of people be very mean to me. Like, in seventh grade, it was very hard. Right. Look, I, I know that happens to everybody. And I'm not saying like, oh, I'm a victim. I'm not. I only say it because it was, it was painful to me at the time. I was upset a lot. And, but, but, but what was the reason why I tell the story? It's not to say I'm a victim. It's only to say that even things that are painful, like, I learned a lot. Like, I learned to like, laugh about things like that. Having a sense of humor about things, having perspective on it, going, well, this is bad now, but think about how it's gonna be next week. Maybe it's gonna be better next week.

Or like you had that perspective back then.

Well, I started to learn it. It was like you're getting little bits of it, you know, like, now I have that life philosophy. But it was like over years that you kind of, you know, developed that knowledge that you go, okay, well, like seventh grade was horrible, but eighth grade was better. But it was partially because I invested that time into it and I didn't want it to be so bad. And I realized, like, I think the important thing, and probably what you're talking about, Dr. Becky saying that when it's not the parent going in and swooping in and saving somebody, when it's the parent giving advice to a child or an adolescent and saying, well, if I were you, I'd do this. And then the kid figuring it out on their own and then going, you know, that really helped. And then them having. Being empowered to, like, get through something themselves that gives you confidence, that helps your self esteem. All those things are positive things.

Yeah. How have you learned? I mean, there's a lot of people that watch and listen who are successful entrepreneurs, who are launching businesses. They're very driven individuals who also want to better themselves. There's a lot of women that watch and listen who also want to be driven and successful in their careers and want to be moms.

Yeah.

But sometimes they feel that. Sometimes I feel like, how can I be really successful and competitive in my career, but also raise good kids and show up and be a great mom and not have mom guilt if I have to go and pursue my dream at the same time.

Yeah.

So it's like, like teaching through example to live your dreams.

Right.

But maybe you won't be there all the time for your kids.

Yeah.

Or certain times you won't be able to be there. How did you learn to navigate that? You know, when your career was just booming with this, you know, these eight years, and not have the Mom Guild, but also be willing to pursue your dream like it's a dance. How did you navigate that?

Well, like, when I was on New Girl, I was taking my kids, like, with me pretty much every day to work and, like, had, like, they had their own little play area and stuff and they. So that was really helpful. I was, I felt like, supported. My sister had done it similarly. So she. So I saw it, you know, I was like, okay, this is. And I. And I remember asking my agents to if they could connect me with some other actresses who had done that, you know, and so that was really helpful to me to be able to, like, have that kind of role modeling and advice again. I just. I don't think our world is necessarily set up for working moms, like, unfortunately, although. And. And so you kind of have to fight a little bit for it, I think. Yeah. I mean, you have to, like. You have to say, like, well, I need to. I. You have to set your boundaries, like, understand, like, what. What's important to your kids, right? Like, if it's important to them to show up at their sporting events or their school plays or whatever, you try to do that as much as you can. And then if you can't one time, it's okay. I mean, look, the way that I work, I, like, all have to, like, go away for a certain period of time sometimes or, you know, be working really hard. And I don't always have control over my schedule. But that. That's why, like, when I'm home, I pick. I drop my kids off at school. I pick them up from school, I take them to their dance classes and their theater classes and all the things that they do, and I go to their performances and I go to the meetings at school, and I'm, like, there all the time. I mean, I try to. Because my work is concentrated, right? So I have, like, these periods of time where I can't be there as much. So I try to. When I can be there as absolutely much as possible. I can't tell you how many times, if you ask my, like, managers or agents or publicists, when they call me, I make. In the car, my kids are going like, mommy, you know, like, in the backseat. Because that's, like, I'm just there all the time. I'm like, you know, watching, you know, classes and they. They, you know, I like, my. The thing I wanted to, for my birthday was, like, sit and watch musicals with my kids. Like, I, you know, and Jonathan, like, I. I love spending time with them. So I try to just, as much as possible, be there when I. When I can. And. And, you know, they know that I work and they know. They're proud of me and they. They. But I try to be, you know, and I'm. I'm very involved in their school, and I like to, you know, be there whenever I can. And so I think that's how I do it. I just try to, as much as possible, be immersed in that. But, you know, we can't always.

Of course. Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

But you're such an inspiration for so many moms who also want to live their dreams and not feel like they can do both at the same time.

It is hard. I mean, it is hard. You just have to, like. It does become like Tetris in your mind. Navigate the schedule, like, be here and there at the same time. Right? Sure.

This is a question I ask a lot of people that I'm curious. Your response.

Okay.

Before you. I guess it might be hard for me to ask this question because your career has kind of always been growing and taking off since you were a teenager. You've had a lot of opportunities early on, but can you remember that? Like the TV show or the movie that really kind of took your career to the next level? Can you remember what time that was? Or maybe the.

It's always like, little. I was always little steps. Like, I'm always just like stepping, stepping. I definitely think, like, when I did New Girl, that was like a big thing because all this. I had never been like, marketed on that level. Okay. So it was like another level 30 or something when we started. So it wasn't like I was. I wasn't like, you know, a baby. I was a full grown adult.

And you've done a ton of projects over there.

I'd done a ton of stuff, but, like, when I did that show, my face was on the side of this building that was like down the street from my house at the time. And I remember driving. It was like on Highland in. In Hollywood. And I was driving to work to New Girl. And I see the face, like it's my body and it goes. It says, like, simply adorkable. And I was like, oh, my God, this is like crazy. And this guy comes up, sees me in my car. I didn't have tinted windows or anything. I just like, had a. I think I had like a Prius or something. And this guy sees me in the car and he comes running across Highland. And then you just starts up pounding on my window, going, hey, hey. And pointing at the thing. And I was like, ah. I remember I was like stuck in traffic, like, Highland. Anybody who goes la. Like, Highland is always like, blocked. And I was like, ah. And I like, I. I was like, I gotta get away. This guy's like, pounding on my window. But I remember being like, that's a different level of marketing than I have experienced before because I was like, you know, I. I did like 500 Days of Summer. Like, I was on a bunch of posters. And it was. It was a different thing, though. It was funny because it was like I wasn't the lead character that I was like, more like the object in that. But I was on some big billboards for that. But when you're. When you're on a billboard and it feels, it's. It's like a weird, surreal thing because it seems like it's so physical, you know, But. But there's, like, build billboards, and then this was a building. This was like a building. And it was at the bottom of my hill, basically. Yeah. So it was crazy.

How did you learn to, I guess, navigate fame on that level?

That was really hard, actually.

Really?

I really wasn't prepared for it. And I. I felt very, like, shy. And, like, I wanted to go, like, I would, like, because I love being, like, on stage, and people look, you know, and they clap. Yeah, I love that feeling. And that's obviously, like, every actor, you know, performer, singer, like, loves that. But, like, the. The, like, people running up and, you know, crowding you and that stuff, that was something I had to like. Nobody gives you any playbook for that. I didn't have a playbook. I would just, like, run away. Like, I didn't know what to do. And so, like, I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes, but, like, I think at a certain point, I realized it's like, okay, I made this decision to be an actor on television. And of course, these people, you know, that means they like the show. And, like. Like, be as gracious as you can. You don't want to get stuck in a dangerous situation. But I think, like, having a little bit, like, some of those, like, meditative practices, taking a deep breath and just being like. Because it's scary when people. I think the same thing. I had this thing, like, when I was a kid. People would look at me and laugh and be mean. And so, like, I would. The same feeling when everyone looks at you. And so it would remind me of that. So I'd be like, they are looking at me because they're being mean even.

Though they're cheering you on.

Yes. But it felt the same. So I think getting over that, like, was a. That was like a. That was like an aha moment. Like, oh, my gosh. This reminds me of when I was a kid. People would be, like, kind of bullyish to me.

So it kind of triggered you emotionally.

It would trigger me emotionally. And I was scared. Like, I feel like I want to get out, you know.

Wow.

But. But, like, now I. I don't see it that way at all. I feel like, oh my gosh, it's so nice. Come up and say hello. It's like as long as my kids feel safe.

Right, right. You know, people are respectful.

Yeah, yeah. It's like different thing.

Where were you on that scale of self love before that show took off? And then after the show took off.

I would actually, it was, it was funny because I would always joke about like ego fluctuation. Not like I had, I mean I was like, I always like had like a very strong sense of self that I know is me. You know, it's like this is me. I know it's me.

But when you're that famous now there's.

A different level of but, but, but I would definitely. But then there's this like, there's this like shift like when you get a perspective shift, right? Where all of a sudden you're like woo. Like you were like micro and then macro perspective shift. Throw off your feelings. I wouldn't say I always loved like sounds fun to me. Like I always loved myself. I always felt like a good amount of self, like, like believing in myself and that kind of, I guess self love.

So on that scale, where were you before the show?

I mean, I knew myself and then you know, and I'm still always like learning about myself but you know, also then afterwards, I mean again like you're thrown off by the shifts but I still like knew who I was.

That's great.

You know, I mean it's hard I think sometimes when like if somebody misunderstands me, that's the hardest thing and that will throw me into a little bit of like spiral y stuff. Like if somebody like really misunderstands something I do, that feels really bad to me. Yeah, I would say that's the hardest thing.

The reason I asked this question is because so many people, I ask this too before they kind of have a rise in success or money or fame, I ask them this question and a lot of people are always higher on the self love scale before they take off in their career or business or following or whatever. And then it drops a little bit afterwards. But it sounds like you had a really good sense of self identity.

I have a good sense of self identity if nothing else.

You are who I am.

I know who I am. Who I am. Wow. I'm very much like who I am.

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But how did you learn to accept yourself when others were making fun of you?

It was hard. Yeah, that's hard.

How did you learn not to adapt and change so others could like you?

That's a really.

And just stay the unique, original person that you are?

Well, I think that was like my. The struggle of my adolescence, like, was like, being like, you know, and I did kind of like retreat a little bit into myself really, like, was trying to, like, follow what other people wanted for a long time. And then I do think through acting, actually through being a performer. And it was like, I ended up with the most successful success when I was, like, embracing who I am.

Wow.

And so I think that kind of came early on. So I knew that, like, I'm like, oh, when I let go. And I'm not just going, will they like me if I do that? You know, when I, when I kind of am myself, I get, I. I am successful. More successful than being. Especially as an actor. You kind of have to be a little bit uninhibited.

Sure, sure. So when you are, when you are yourself, you are successful.

Yeah.

And you're constantly.

I associate it with success, I guess.

That's beautiful. Even though if you're playing another character, you're still being yourself, you're still yourself in that character.

I mean, like, I know there are actors that, like, totally lose themselves. But I'm sorry, like, even, even the best actors, you're still like, I'm not going. I don't recognize Meryl Streep. She's the greatest actor in the world, probably. But I still know it's her? Yeah, of course she's still like, you know, and she can do incredible, you know, transformations, but still, I know it's her. There's still that person in there and there's a reason why we, like, there's some essence that stays.

Yes.

So we have to at least. And then every actor is different. There's some actors that don't go too far from who they are, but we still love watching them, you know, we still love. They're still great actors. They're just, they're not as transformative as, you know, some others.

What's. Where are you at in this season of your life? What's the vision you have now after, you know, 20 plus years of a lot of success and a lot of different genres? What are you excited about creating and developing, moving forward personally, professionally?

Yeah, I, I still love acting and I still love doing music and I still love doing all the same stuff I like, liked when I was a kid. Like, I still get excited about it, you know, I still love doing that. I still, you know, I always think of being an actor as like, you're a filmmaker. Like, we're just focused on a more micro thing, but like, like we're there to help get this made. And again, I think I talked about value add before, but, like, am I a value add? Like, like, how could I be the most value add? So, so you're. It's my job to be like, on the film set, helping the film get made, however that is. So it's kind of like, that's fun for me. You know, I enjoy that work. You know, I still really love it and enjoy it, even though I'm a parent now. And, you know, I have, you know, and I have a wonderful relationship now and like, all, all kinds of things going on that are different, you know, than different phases of my life. But I still love doing it, you know, it's amazing. It's so fun.

This is a question I ask everyone at the end called, called the Three Truths. Okay, so imagine a hypothetical scenario.

Okay?

You get to live as long as you want to live in this world.

Okay?

But it's your last day.

Oh, okay.

Many years away from marriage, it's your last day. And you get to create everything you want to create from this moment, moving forward to that last day. But for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, you have to take all of your work with you, everything you've ever created, projects you've been a part of this conversation, anything, your music, for whatever reason, we no longer have access to it in this world.

Okay.

But on this last day of life, you get to leave behind three lessons, three things you know to be true about your life. Experiences that you would want to leave behind.

Yeah.

What would be those three lessons or three truths that you would share with people if we didn't have anything else to be remembered by you?

Okay. Yes. I think being able to shift your perspective is one of the greatest strengths you can put. Can possibly have. And it's something you can practice. That if you're not having fun in your work, you're doing the wrong thing, and that you should always try to be a hundred percent yourself.

Those are good.

Thank you.

I like those. I like those. Be yourself. Be original.

Yeah, I love that.

I want to acknowledge you, Zoe, for how you've been so consistent in your life and in your career and how you've been original. You've had a lot of fun. Like everything that I feel like I've seen you in and other people have seen you in. You have a lot of fun.

Yes. Thank you.

And you bring out joy, laughter, love, and a range of emotions for people when they experience your art. So I want to acknowledge you for being a great artist, constantly evolving as an artist, showing up and adding value, not just trying to take from every situation, showing up, loving yourself fully, and also contributing to others around you and just really showing up with a beautiful heart. So I want to acknowledge you for.

That's so sweet.

Of course. Yeah, I want to acknowledge you for all that. Obviously, I don't know you that well, but from what I've witnessed of you and the work that you've created, you bring a lot of love and joy.

That's really nice. Thank you so much. I took that in.

Good, good. I'm glad you did. Final question, Zoe. What is your definition of greatness?

Definition of greatness. I actually think it's. I mean, I think when you can be humble and recognize the things that you don't know and where you can learn and how you can be better, for me, that's like a state of greatness, because you aren't. You're not saying, I'm done here. You're saying, I'm still. I'm just getting started. I'm still working on it. I have many places I want to go, and of course, I don't know everything. Who could.

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