From Caregiver to Creator: The Story Behind KindredMind with Kirstin Thomas

Are you caring for a loved one with dementia? You don't have to figure this out all on your own. Welcome to Truth, Lies, and Alzheimer's, the show that helps you reimagine a new relationship with your loved one, a relationship a little more free of stress and anxiety. Join host Lisa Skinner and her 30-plus years of experience As she guides you on a new path to a better relationship with those you care for. Here's Lisa.

Hi everybody, welcome to another new episode of The Truth, Lies, and Alzheimer's Show. I'm Lisa Skinner, your host, and I'm feeling really excited today because I have a very special guest. Right here with me, and I can't wait to introduce her to everybody. Her name is Kirsten Thomas, and she is the co-founder and president of a company that she created called Kindred Mind. And what she did is she built from lived experiences, from lived caregiving experiences. An app that is so unique that I couldn't wait to share it with everybody because I think it's a really— could be a really, really helpful tool for some of the challenges that I know you all live with day in and day out. So please help me give a very warm welcome to Kirsten. Kirsten, welcome to the Truth, Lies, and Alzheimer's Show. I'm so excited to have you here.

Thank you.

So glad you were able to join us today.

Well, thanks so much for inviting me, Lisa. I really appreciate it.

You're very welcome. I'm excited to hear more details about your app called Kindred Mind. Let's start off with what inspired you. What, what drove you to even think about doing something like this, let alone actually developing it and putting it out there for people to have a great tool to work with.

Yeah, as you said in the outset of this call, this was born out of caregiving experience, certainly not from a boardroom, from a strategy meeting. Just a little context and background, rewind the time, so to speak. I was raised by my mom, an only mom, single child. Our connection was one that is very unique. Some would say codependent. There's the enmeshment. I was always kind of wired to worry about her. But I would say over the last decade or so, I started noticing things that would cause a little bit of a red flag. But I would chalk it up often to just aging.

Well, tell us a little bit more about that because a lot of my audience are always really curious what people have actually witnessed that they dismissed maybe at the time that actually turned out to be something more serious than just normal aging forgetfulness. So I think they would love to hear some of the signs that you noticed but maybe didn't see.

Yeah, it didn't look like the universal typical kind of like forgetfulness that we all know of, say, Alzheimer's, which is kind of like a catch-all. Instead, it showed up with increased fatigue, so much so that it didn't match her daily activities. She would sleep a lot. So that was one kind of clue. She stopped being able to hold on to a story. I'd be halfway through telling her something that was, you know, pretty pertinent to my well-being, but I could tell she sort of lost the thread of it. It could be a comprehension Or an attention concern. I found too, she started substituting words. She would sometimes make up words. So that I learned later was paraphasia. It happens when the brain can't retrieve the exact word underneath, although the thought is there, the thought is intact, but they can't retrieve that word.

And then there's a term, actually, there's a term for making up words. It's called confabulation. So it sounds like she was doing that as well. And that's a very, very common thing that we see with people who actually have one of the brain diseases that cause dementia.

Some other clues, and sadly I noticed socially things started to shift for her. She was ostracized from her Eucharist group because she wasn't following the rules so much so anymore. More executive, as I mentioned, more executive than memory loss at the beginning. So she knew what she wanted to do. For example, you know, set an appointment or log into her Facebook or collect her voice messages even. I could tell that she couldn't execute point A to point B. So suddenly there was no clear path for her. But it wasn't until April 2025 that her doctors carried out the MoCA test, so that cognitive impairment detection And she scored quite low that they reported her to the Ministry of Transportation and her license was suspended. And then later in October, she had a series of strokes ultimately leading to a significant stroke that attacked her basal ganglia, which helps govern voluntary movement among other neurological functions. But it ended up causing her to be in a wheelchair. So my mom, who once drove herself all over the place, is now in a wheelchair. Everywhere, who had a social butterfly calendar, who went to the gym 3 times a week, who took care of her cat, she would volunteer, she was very active, was now completely dependent in a wheelchair.

Now, how old is she now at this time in 2025?

She was 81.

And how many years had you been noticing some of the things you described to us?

So the rearview mirror is, is telling. You know, in the moment, as I said, you kind of dismiss it. Maybe it's denial. Uh, you're, you're excusing it for the natural course of aging. But honestly, when I really think back, I would say at least 10 years.

Interesting. Yeah.

And I don't think that she addressed it with her primary physician at the time because, well, there's a stigma. And also she was a very proud private woman. She was a boss lady, hustled, and so this would kind of make her feel less of and age out of. So I think that she kept it quiet, even to me. She wouldn't admit it. And what— back to your original question, what was it specifically that, that kind of was the impetus for building the app Kindred Mind? Is that she stopped texting. So that was another action or clue, and started calling me more, and those calls would come more and more frequently, and the questions would be the same over and over again. So we all know that one of the symptoms is repetition, but one of the other symptoms is this, or what they call reassurance calls, due to separation anxiety in people living with dementia. So I recognized that immediately because I lived this back when I was a teenager in high school with my grandmother, her mom's mom. So watching the same pattern repeat itself across 2 generations is really what I guess positioned me to problem solve that much faster because I didn't want to leave my mom hanging the way I felt my grandmother was. Because we would collect voice messages on the answering machine when we'd come home from our respective days. And there would be calls from morning till night that she would be leaving because there were no cell phones back then. This was her only you know, way to reach out to, to us, to the people that she trusted and felt familiar and, and comforted by. Um, and I, I knew that I couldn't let my mom sit in that fear, in that anxiety, and that disorientation. I didn't want her to think that I had abandoned her. So all that—

What were her living arrangements during this time?

So prior to the massive stroke, she was living independently.

Oh, okay.

Doing everything independently.

But what about when these phone calls, these—

So, that actually started leading up to her stroke. So, I started making more accommodations for her, certainly because of the loss of license. But also, I noticed there was— and at the time, I kind of— I hate to say this, but I saw it as neediness. But now, in hindsight, I realize it was this Separation anxiety. She wanted to feel— I guess she felt unstable in her mind and in her spirit, and she was just reaching out for the only voice, the only person that she ever really had that connection with, which is me as an only child.

Understandably. Yeah.

Okay.

So where— after she had the stroke, then did she change the living environment?

Yes. Well, and because of the wheelchair and the need for Full, full, um, care, you know, from the—

She went into what, assisted living or memory care?

So luckily she's not considered a flight risk because she is in a wheelchair. So she is able to stay in, um, a traditional retirement home that seems to have organically evolved into a space that can accommodate high, high needs. So—

And you're in Canada, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. So this, this was the type of facility that is offered Right.

It's not subsidized, but certainly it is— I mean, I think that if my mom were considered a flight risk, meaning she could wander and just leave the care home entirely, then that would be a different conversation. But I'm so comfortable where she's at because she still maintains a lot of her autonomy, as much as she could. And I know one of the ethical principles in dementia care is to preserve and maintain the independence as much as possible. Absolutely. Yeah.

So she has a room in this community setting that offered, you know, dining experience. They went to a dining room, there are activities, all those things. But these calls continued incessantly, right?

Yes. So it's— I'm close. I'm about 15-20 minute drive away, and I do see her almost every day. But it was the in-between— and she calls, as you know. And it was It was the in-between times. So we call that the bridge, the bridge between my physical presence and my voice presence to when I'm not able to get those calls. And it was those calls that I missed that weighed most heavily on me. There was, I guess, one kind of pivotal moment where I was in my daughter's dance recital and I had to make that choice between watching my daughter on stage Or picking up the call from my mom. And I had to step out of the theater because I, I, I just— the guilt that ensues if I miss the call, it weighs heavy. But also, I was really concerned that maybe this call was something really emergent.

Yeah, you just never know. It could be. Yeah. Kirsten is part of the sandwich generation that we were just talking about on another episode. So she's Dealing with her aging mom who has been diagnosed with— is it frontotemporal dementia?

And vascular dementia.

And vascular dementia. I was going to ask you if she— And mixed.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that is called mixed dementia, which is actually very common. And she also had a daughter, a dependent daughter at the same time. So it's a lot of balls for her to juggle in the air all at once. So she came up with something really, really clever. So let's pick up where we left off. Go ahead and continue with your story, Kirsten.

Thanks, Lisa. I also have 2 boys. I don't want to leave them out of the equation. So 3 kids and 2 dogs and a business to build. So it's busy. It's certainly busy. And I did feel like that caregiver pull, the caregiver burnout that does ensue. But back to kind of describing what Kindred Mind is, knowing that it was kind of the impetus was the repetitive reassurance phone calls was the reason for building this or developing this. The product itself is an AI voice companion that answers phone calls from someone living with dementia using familiar voice technology. Those are my dogs in the background. I don't know if you can hear them. So it's a clone of the the caregiver's voice, and in this case, my own. Plus, actually, what we've just built in is a proactive check-in call. So we can call or send SMS for reminders, which is great, or even a companion. But back to the pillars that Kindred Mind is built on, it's built on the simulated presence therapies, that being my voice, and the validation therapy, and established dementia care concepts that favor emotional comfort over literal correction. And I've heard you, Lisa, talking a lot about, you know, confabulation or compassionate deception, all of those things, and it's widely, widely discussed. But we can jump into the validation therapy if you want. It's a great discussion to have.

Yeah.

Developed by Naomi Fale back in the '60s through to the '80s. She worked in a nursing home, and I've done a little research, and I found this enlightening. And she noticed that the caregivers used to use the, like, correct them, orient them approach.

Yeah, the reality orientation therapy. Yeah.

So like if someone— and they always use this example— if someone's asking after their spouse who's no longer here, back in the day they would correct and say, oh, he, he passed away in, you know, 2019 or what have you. But what she found—

Don't you remember?

Yeah, you must have dementia. But she found that wasn't helping anyone. It wasn't kind either. Even though you were— even though you were giving the facts, it wasn't kind. So it wasn't helping. So, um, yeah, people were just getting upset. The agitation throughout the care community would start spreading like wildfire.

Very true.

It was almost like contagious. Um, so instead what she thought to do was stop trying to fix the facts and start paying attention to the feeling underneath them. So my mom has asked after her mom. And so when she's, you know, and my grandmother's been gone like 30-some-odd years, she's— I'm looking at the underlying root emotion and not the factual question. Instead, I'm seeing her asking like, she wants to feel safe. She wants to feel cozy. All the things that you feel when you're wanting to be with your mom. So I don't correct her. Kindred Mind doesn't correct her because Kindred Mind is built on those pillars of validation. So, you know, again, to your point, you're not saying, you're confused, I just told you this 5 minutes ago. So that's kind of the whole validation example in play there. But there's— yeah, there's research behind it, you know, studies.

Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

That validation approaches, like I said, can reduce anxiety and actually even increase communication, like positive communication. And that combats the whole loneliness epidemic and all of these things. And certainly too, it has a flip side where it's reported to show less caregiver burnout. And caregiver burnout is not a joke.

Oh, it's a real thing. There's no question about that. Before we run out of time, can you give us maybe a walkthrough of how exactly this works?

Yeah.

How it performs so we have, you know, maybe a little bit better understanding of what it can do to accomplish all these things you just, you know, Hit the nail on the head about it. It's all, you know, just very, very true and very accurate.

Yeah, well, thank you. We tried to weave in all of the kind of guidelines to dementia-friendly conversations and lean on, because we're in Canada, the Alzheimer's Society of Canada's guidelines. So all of that is kind of built in. The app itself is on a short leash. It doesn't invent things. But how you onboard is that you start with an 8-minute conversation with a virtual assistant. We call her Sarah. And it's just through this 2-way conversation, like a Q&A. There's no script. And that's enough to build the initial voice. So, when my mom calls, even with the initial voice, it's almost undistinguishable. She hears the nuances, the intonation, some of the words that I might say. But during that Q&A, it builds in the background a knowledge base. So that when those calls do come in from someone living with dementia, the conversation is relevant. It's based on real life, you know, the rhythms of her day, the rhythms of the caregiver's day, the people that are important to both of them. And it is entirely based on that whole conversation. So it's not recorded. It's always two-way. And When I was looking at— I paused there because I wanted to mention, and I know we're running out of time. I was looking at the alternatives, and the alternatives being call blocking, call silencing, sending your calls to voicemail. I've heard some people remove the lifeline altogether. They remove the phone. Some people go so far as medicating the symptoms, which is the anxiety underneath those repetitive reassurance calls. All of those alternatives Didn't sit well with me. So, I needed a way to answer those calls that I simply couldn't get to in my voice so that that familiar voice and trusted voice is one that my mom can sit with. So now, she has that. And all of— and I can update on the fly. So, if I visit her almost daily, if I'm running late, I can update on my mobile app to say— if she does in the event call while I'm driving, I can say, I'm running 30 minutes behind schedule. So, it's almost like my own assistant but in my voice. One other thing I wanted to say is for those people who may not be comfortable having their voice cloned, we do offer a warm assistant voice in female and male. And again, all based on that whole set of knowledge that you share. And we don't allow for medical records. We don't allow for financial information or last names. So, it's actually very surface-level information, whatever it is you decide to share with KindredMIND.

So how has it— I guess your mom was cut for the app, was kind of your beta tester. How— so how has she responded to using Kindred Mind?

Yeah, no, that's a great question. And I answer it this way. Before Kindred Mind, I was— if I missed a call, several calls, those calls would come with more urgency and frequency. And by the time I answered the call, She— and I say this all the time— she literally sounded like she ran a marathon. Like she was exasperated. And now, when KindredMind answers those calls, although she forgets because that's part of dementia, she'll forget she just called. She'll call again. But they come with less frequency. And the urgency beneath the messaging has decreased as well. And what's great is I get a summary of all those calls that I wasn't able to answer myself.

Oh!

So I know her affect. I know if she was disoriented or calm or all of those. It's like a Coles Notes version of her feeling, the sentiment, and the messaging. So if there's any action item, like if she said, I need a new toothbrush, for example, then I can act on that.

So you built in all these metrics into this app?

We absolutely— well, yeah, it's very data-driven. And then I like to also say the distress Universal distress keywords are in there. So instead of validating someone when they say they've fallen, you want to actually break through and let the caregiver know in real time. So we've built that in as well.

Wow, this is just fascinating and brilliant. It's actually brilliant.

I'm so excited to—

now, can, can people go onto your website and Do you have like a demo available for them to listen to?

So yeah, we have a 14-day free trial. And what that allows you to do is you can actually go through the onboarding process and get your instant voice clone and done in 8 minutes. And then you can even test calling that number to see how it fields conversation based on the knowledge base and any curveballs you may throw at it.

That's amazing. So what— how do they, um, how do they find you?

How does the kindredmind.care— kindredmind.care?

Okay, well, this is, um, just really— I'm even more excited than I was before we had our conversation because of all the things you explained to us that it's capable of doing. I just see this being a tremendously helpful and valuable tool because I have seen this behavior from so many people living with dementia. And yeah, it was just really a brilliant idea. So I'm glad that you came up with this. And it's such a A wonderful tool. So thank you again for being here and for sharing this, this exciting information with us.

Thank you.

And I hope a lot of people will look into it because I can see this really being helpful to family members and caregivers that do experience these repetitive calls and the insecurity and And the fear that they often and very commonly experience living with dementia. This is such a needed, needed resource. So thanks again. Anything else that you'd like to say before we sign off?

I don't think so. I think we covered it. I think that the, you know, if you were to distill it down, it works for both the caregiver offering a bit of reprieve in their day. But more importantly, and the reason why I built this, was to make sure that my loved one, the one living with dementia, doesn't sit in fear.

That's a good place to leave. So as far as how it works on the actual phone, is it just like Seinfeld and it's number 1 on the speed dial?

Yeah, you can program the special unique Kindred number into your phone and you receive that number once you onboard. And then the— in this case, my mother has a pre-programmed button with my name on it. She presses it and she always gets me, even when I can't answer the phone. She'll still get me. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Well, we are out of time for today's episode. Um, this has really been exciting. I just cannot express how impressed I am with all the information I've learned about Kindred. So I hope, you know, if this applies to your world, look into it because it might help save your sanity. All right. Thanks again, Kirsten, for being here and good luck with your app.

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me, Lisa. I really appreciate it.

So come back next week. As always, I will have another new episode prepared for you. In the meantime, have a great rest of your week. And as I always urge you to do, is to stay as healthy as you possibly can and happy. And I will see you all next week. Bye-bye for now.

Thank you for listening to Truth, Lies, and Alzheimer's. We hope you found something in today's episode that helps. We understand that caring for a loved one with dementia can be the challenge of a lifetime, but you don't have to do it alone. If you're ready for exclusive access to even more great content and resources, head on over to Facebook and join Lisa's Minding Dementia support group. We're a community of like-minded caregivers, and we're here to help.