His diagnosis of early-onset Alzheimer's disease

This is the Truth, Lies, and Alzheimer's Show, brought to you by Global Media Network LLC and Passionate World Talk Radio. Passionate World Talk Radio is a wholly owned subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC, and our motto is educate, enlighten, and entertain. I'm Ken Palya, but much more importantly, Here to bring you our host, Alzheimer's and dementia expert, bestselling author, and world-renowned public speaker, Lisa Skinner. In today's episode, Lisa will be discussing the struggles that caregivers face when caring for somebody with Alzheimer's disease. Our very special guest today is Betsy Wurzel. Betsy will be joining us today to discuss her husband's diagnosis at a fairly young age of early onset Alzheimer's disease. Betsy was her husband's primary caregiver, and today she'll be sharing her personal experience. Betsy is also the host or co-host of two shows on Passionate World Talk Radio. She's the host of Chatting with Betsy, and she's a co-host on the Lest We Forget show. So if you like what you hear, please check out both of those shows. And with that, I'm very pleased to bring you our host, Lisa Skinner.

Thanks for that wonderful introduction, Ken, as always. And Betsy, welcome to our show. Thank you so much for being here today. It's such a pleasure to have you. Well, thank you, Lisa Skinner. Thank you, Ken.

I appreciate being on your show. I'm excited.

Well, today, as you heard, we are going to discuss the struggles that caregivers face. We can't discuss them all, but we're going to discuss quite a few when caring for somebody who Lives day-to-day with Alzheimer's disease or related dementia. And before we get started, I just want to let everybody know that right today there are approximately 15 million unpaid family caregivers just in the U.S. who are caring for a loved one with Alzheimer's disease or dementia. While it's no secret that caregiving can take an emotional, financial, and physical toll, unfortunately not much progress has been made when it comes to alleviating the caregiving burden. Well, caregiving is becoming a very common role for family members and for professionals. Countless people throughout the world end up caring for their aging parents, spouses, other family members, friends, or strangers. It's a very important role, and the challenges that are faced by these caregivers are very often overlooked. There is still far too little recognition of all that caregivers do for their loved ones or the toll that their role can take. And I know from personal experience because I have facilitated support groups for family members who have loved ones who live with Alzheimer's disease, and one of the very first lessons I learned when I was leading that support group is how little acknowledgment, not only do the family members get, of their role struggling with this disease for so many years. I mean, it can last— the average person lives with the disease from between 8 and 15 years. And Betsy, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe early onset Alzheimer's disease is a much faster progressing disease than the traditional Alzheimer's disease. Isn't that correct?

Yes, yes, that's what I've heard. Mm-hmm.

Yes. Now, how long did your husband live with it after his diagnosis?

Matt lived 10 years.

10 years. So that's fast, relatively speaking. My grandmother, my very first experience with Alzheimer's disease, she lived 20 years, and that was after we realized that there was something wrong with her. But, uh, you know, family, family caregivers of people with dementia, I don't know if you've ever heard this term before, but they're often called the invisible second patients. And they are absolutely critical to the quality of life of the care recipients, but the effects of being a family caregiver, though sometimes positive, are a lot of times very stressful and negative with high rates of burden and psychological morbidity as well as social isolation, physical ill health, and financial hardship. Does any of that resonate with your experience? And I know that you not only took care of your husband, but you were also one of the caregivers to your mother-in-law prior to your husband's diagnosis who also lived with Alzheimer's disease. You want to share that share your experience with us?

Sure. When my mother-in-law was diagnosed, that's back in the year 2000, there wasn't much information at all. And even though I worked as a licensed practical nurse, I never heard the word Alzheimer's. Didn't know what it was. So, I tried to—

Oh, okay.

Yeah, never heard of those called different names at that time., and I didn't know all that went with— went with— I can't talk. I know that went with that, Lisa Skinner Skinner. Um, I was so shocked when my mother-in-law accused me of stealing and having her hallucinations and angry outbursts, and there wasn't much information available, uh, like there is today. And so I learned a lot with my mother-in-law, and I really have to emphasize to your audience that education makes such a huge difference in your experience in dealing with your loved one and creating a better environment for your loved one and knowing what to do, what not to do. So when Matt was diagnosed, I knew about Alzheimer's, but I didn't know about early onset. I didn't know you could get it young. Apparently, neither did the doctors where I live because they kept saying that was too young. And I'm really grateful for the support groups that I went to on Facebook and learned from other caregivers. And even then with Matt in 2010, there really wasn't a whole lot of information back then either. No, like there is now.

That's been my experience as well. And to be honest with you, I've been doing this professionally for 30 years now. My first experience with Alzheimer's disease was actually with my grandmother, and that was almost 50 years ago. And you're right, because they called it senile dementia. There was no diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease back then. And to be honest with you, and I'm sure that you've experienced this too after your personal experiences and the show you've been hosting for the last 3 years, I personally have only started to see things change like since COVID So in the last few years, before that people did not want to talk about Alzheimer's disease or any of the related diseases that cause dementia. It was like they wanted to keep it only family business, and it's almost like they were shamed— felt shame or embarrassment that they had somebody in their family who was living with it. But as we all know, It's like the elephant in the room staring you right in the face, and it never goes away. But fortunately, in the last few years since COVID I have seen an increase in this topic trending in the media, and more people are starting to feel more comfortable talking about it and seeking help, which I don't know, for decades really wasn't happening. Is that what your experience has been too, Nancy?

Oh, yes. Oh, absolutely, Lisa. I agree with you 1,000%. Not even 100, 1,000% because it, I think it took COVID for people to do free webinars and free seminars. And refocusing, you know, what they're doing because you didn't hear about Alzheimer's or other dementias. And then once COVID hit, there was webinars, seminars, you heard about it. And also mental health, you know, is now being accepted. I hear mental health commercials, public service announcements. I hear announcements on Alzheimer's, which I was shocked about. I even am now hearing public service announcements on autism. So, I'm glad that—

We're hearing a lot more. We're also hearing a lot more announcements in the news and in magazine articles and various media platforms when celebrities are— yes, are being and have been diagnosed, where before they didn't want to make that public information, but now it's finally starting to capture people's attention. There's been a lot of celebrities in the past few years who their families have come out and said that they had Alzheimer's disease or they have Alzheimer's disease, but I have had a lot of family members tell me over the past 30 years that they have— after their diagnosis, the doctors really have not given them any guidance as far as what resources are out there or what to expect. And I know that's true of you because you and I have had this conversation. So tell us what happened with you with— once your husband Matt was diagnosed his early onset Alzheimer's disease. Yes, that's true.

With my mother-in-law, there was no guidance. With Matt, there was no guidance at all. And I was thinking, oh, Matt has Alzheimer's, so when is he going to die? Is what I was thinking. You know, how long is he going to be living? As long as his mom? He's going to have to be placed. Uh, what do I do? Um, well, I went to a lawyer. I could tell you that. I went immediately to a lawyer. I got power of attorney, and folks, you need that for medical and financial. I had Matt do a medical directive, and I had the house put in my name. I took Matt's name off of everything.

So you really planned ahead. And I think that is so smart, so wise. You obviously got some very good advice, and I hope people are listening because that's really one of the first things that you want to do is get all the personal affairs in order before they lose their cognitive capacity and can't either participate in these critical decisions or they are deemed to be incompetent. And then you have more troubles than you need under the circumstances. Yes. Isn't that right? Yes, that's—

oh, very true. I told Matt— and a lot of people think this, Lisa Skinner— you know, when you go to get power of attorney, you're not taking away anyone's power. You have it there for when you need it. Next, Phil was able to, um, help with his decisions. You have it for when they are no longer able to communicate what they want, and you know what they want and you carry it out. Now, you may not agree with what they want, but that's their choice.

Those are very important and critical conversations to have as a family, and people usually react to a diagnosis like this instead of be proactive and plan for these things. But, you know, it's hitting more and more families every day. The World Health Organization and the Alzheimer's Association are projecting that the number of people who will develop Alzheimer's disease and other dementia in the next 25 years by the year 2050 are going to triple if a cure or a treatment is not found. So these are all things to really pay attention to because it's impacting so many families and we're not prepared as a society to handle or manage the the number of people that are projected to develop this disease. And that's why Betsy and I really felt strongly that we needed to have this discussion and inform people of some of the things that are important things to know if and when it does hit your family. Maybe it already has. But, you know, many of the family members that I've worked with over the past 3 decades have shared with me that watching a family member suffer from dementia is like losing them twice, first through the decline of disease and then upon their physical death. Do you agree with, um—

Oh yes. Oh yeah, yeah.

That resonates with you. I mean, what was it like for you to watch your husband, 10— for 10 years after his diagnosis, decline as he progressed through the stages of the disease?

Lisa Skinner, it is beyond heartbreaking, uh, when you watch someone literally deteriorate before your eyes. And I swear, sometimes it was like Matt lost skills overnight. Um, with each skill lost, you grieve. It just breaks your heart. I remember one day I said to Matt, Matt, here's your clothes, because I had to pick out his clothes. And he— I said, now it's time, you know, to get changed. And he didn't do anything. I said, Matt, what are you waiting for? You know, get undressed and put your clothes on. And he looked at me, Lisa, and he said, I don't know how. I said, what do you mean you don't know how? He just did it yesterday.

He had no clue.

No clue at all.

One woman wrote to me whose mother is currently progressing through dementia kind of expressed it like this. She said, I just don't know how to come to terms with the loss of a mother who is still alive. The person I would always run to who would love me and hug me and tell me everything's going to be okay. Is not there anymore. And one of the other questions I wanted to ask you, because a lot of us know that part of the natural grieving process that we go through when somebody passes is the 5 stages of grief— denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and then finally acceptance. Do you feel like you had to go through those those 5 stages of the grief process, not only when Matt was still alive as he declined through the disease, but then you had to repeat that cycle all over again after he finally did pass away?

I think it's much different after Matt passed away, but during his journey, definitely the 5 stages. I was at a point that I had to go see a psychologist, and I highly recommend mental health counseling because it's, it's tough, you know. And I thought I had to be the superwoman, and I almost had a nervous breakdown because I thought I had to be a superwoman, and I was snapping at people, snapping at the kids in the preschool. And I'm glad I went for help. It helped me, you know, a lot. And after Matt— and then after someone dies, you, you really miss their physical presence, um, and, you know, their laughter and their touch. And it's a whole different process. And I also recommend again grief counseling. I had for free grief counseling from my senior center, and I am now seeing a psychologist, which I'm not afraid to say, for post-traumatic stress related to caregiving. And it does take a toll on you mentally and physically. Caregiving. And I did learn a very deep love connection with Matt that I didn't have before. I mean, I love Matt, don't get me wrong, but it was such a— at a different level that when, you know, when someone can't talk but they know the love. And I've said this on my show, and I'll say it on your show, Lisa, Dementia robs the brain, but it cannot rob the heart of love. Keep talking to your loved one, keep touching them. They know it. They know your voice. I really believe that they recognize our voice. They may not be able to say so, but they know the love, and I believe that firmly.

And one of the things that we know about people who live with Alzheimer's disease, once their short-term memory really starts to short-circuit and disappear, they know they know you from— that you belong in their life in some way. They may not be able to identify you as their son or their wife, but they know that you fit into the fabric of their life somehow. And the joy, the the feeling of joy that you can bring them by spending quality time with them will last much longer than the experience of you being there. That feeling of love lasts a very long time. This is something that we know to be true. So, don't fool yourself into thinking that, oh, why should I go visit my dad? He's not going to remember the conversation we have. He doesn't even know who I am. He'll know the feeling of joy and love that you bring to him when you are having that special visit, and it'll last for a while. Um, another thing that I want to bring up are everything that Betsy is saying is so commonly felt by caregivers and family members, a lot of what she's saying. So she's offering some really strong and solid advice to everybody. One of the things that another family caregiver said in one of my support groups that I led was she confess to the group that she felt like she had no one, that her friends were all scattered when things started getting strange with her loved one, who happened to be her husband. He has no family except me and my only sister, who lives thousands of miles away. It is so very lonely and hard to cope. I feel like I'm losing my sanity right along with him. I feel sad, hopeless, and that I have no future. What do you think about that sentiment that she expressed in the support group? How does that resonate with you, Betsy?

That's very valid. I was fortunate— well, I'm fortunate that I had Josh, my son, and we were a tag team. I'm fortunate that I had my show, which gave me a purpose, and my support group that I lead on Facebook, #KickAlzheimer'sAssMovement. So that really helped me have a purpose. But as far as friends abandoning you, yes. Friends, family—

Yeah, that happens a lot.

—abandon. And Josh is really funny. Josh is a kind to disability, but he understood Alzheimer's better than so-called intelligent people. And one friend said to Josh, I'd call your dad, but he doesn't know who I am. And Josh said, it's not rocket science, Bill. You just call up and say, hi, Matt, this is Bill. How you doing?

Oh, that's great.

I love it. Excuse me. So, out of the mouth of babes.

Another woman expressed her feelings to me this way. Tell me how you feel about this expression of frustration. She said, "Watching my beloved mother die piece by piece is so much more painful than a sudden loss. In the 3 years, we have seen her decline from just repeating herself and having some mobility issues to being bedridden and totally concerned about everything 90% of the time. She and my father live in an independent living apartment in a senior living center. We now have hospice in to help, but it's not nearly enough. I think you also brought hospice in to care for your husband in the last several months of his life.

So, um, yeah, Matt went on hospice like 6 weeks before he died, and unfortunately I had the hospice from hell experience, so I didn't— their aid was terrible, so I I fired her. I said I, I don't need her, I'll do it myself.

Um, that's really— and same, because yeah, so many people have wonderful experiences with hospice and that's their whole purpose. But yeah, unfortunately you did not have a positive experience because you sure needed that. It would have just— yes, you know, made things so much better for everybody if that had been a positive experience for you.

Yes, that's what added to my trauma, actually. Um, you know, you're supposed to have— I tell people you're supposed to have a positive experience with hospice. They're there to support you, not to cause you aggravation, such as was in my case. But, um, you know, it's hard to say, Lisa, like a sudden death My uncle died suddenly, and I think they're both hard. With a sudden death, you have to deal with all of a sudden trauma. That person died— depends how they died. You didn't get a chance to say goodbye. I at least got a chance to say goodbye to Matt.

And but I think with a sudden death and a long terminal illness, a lot of people, even though with Alzheimer's disease we all agree that it's like watching your loved one die twice, you think you're prepared for the fact that it is a terminal illness and you're preparing yourself during the progression of disease for the passing part of it. But I think it's also fair to say that even though we think we're prepared for it, we're really not prepared for it. True. 100%. Part of us— very true. But when somebody passes, like, really suddenly and unexpectedly, then, you know, we're definitely not prepared. So I don't know, I've asked myself so many times which of the two I think is better. I've experienced both in my lifetime, and they're both hard. There's no denying it. They're both hard in, in similar ways and in very different ways. Yes, yes, that's true.

Um, you know, you don't have to go through watching someone decline when someone dies suddenly. A woman who worked in another building, her husband died young man in his, uh, 50s just died suddenly, and she said, I never got a chance to say goodbye. I didn't want to wake him up to say goodbye, and now I wished I did. Um, so it is very difficult. They're both difficult. I used to wish— and this may sound terrible— but I used to wish that Matt would go into sleep and not have to go through, um, what he went through, but it didn't work out that way.

Yeah, yeah. I remember my stepfather was on hospice the last couple months of his life, but he didn't have Alzheimer's disease, he had bladder cancer. And hospice, we set him up in, in, um, his living room with my mom being there, and hospice came in very regularly. And I'll never forget the day that I was over there just kind of standing by because they said that he— well, he had slipped into a coma and it was— he was probably going to be passing very soon. So I was over there and I had been sitting in the kitchen And I went out into the living room where his bed was set up and I wanted to check on him because yes, he had been in a coma for a couple days. And I was standing there kind of watching for signs of life and all of a sudden he opened his eyes and he sat up and he looked right at me, but he really wasn't looking at me. He was looking through me. And he said, "Oh, Lisa." So he knew who I was. He said, "There's a beautiful angel standing right behind you." And then he slipped back into his coma and he passed away the next day. And I will never ever forget, as long as I live,— that experience with my stepfather. And after that, there was absolutely no question in my mind that our guardian angels are there to help us and protect us and help us make the transition after we leave this life that we know here. And I mean, I still get the chills thinking about that, but— this is actually a more common occurrence than a lot of us realize, that this happens to a lot of people right before they pass away, that they seem very alert and lucid, but it's almost like they go through this very, very final stage. So I was happy to be able to share that with everybody. Um, yes, another common— it is common, yeah, especially slipping into a coma and then just waking up out of nowhere, having a conversation with a loved one or a caregiver or a nurse or a doctor, and then slipping back into the coma, and then shortly after that passing away. It happens a lot. Especially in hospitals. You hear a lot of true life stories about this from nurses and medical professionals. So it sounds like you were very aware of that. Did that happen to you with Matt?

Matt didn't do that, right? I have heard of that where I worked. I worked in a state institution, this, um, and this patient was young. She sat up pulled out her, her G-tube, her stomach tube, took her clothes off and died.

It was the weirdest thing. She didn't want it. She didn't want to pass away hooked up to me. Yes. Yeah.

Oh, that's— it was bizarre. Um, but Matt started to see, uh, dead people a few months prior. To dying, he would tell me that he saw his mom, his dad, his brother, who had, who had all died. And, uh, 2 weeks before— yeah, yeah, a few months before. And 2 weeks before he died, Matt saw his dog. He said, 'Oh, I see a dog.' I said, 'Is that Girl?' That was the name of his dog. I said, 'That's Girl.' And, uh, he told me he heard music. There was no music playing, but he heard music.

Oh, that's heart-wrenching. It makes— it makes my hair stand up on the back of my neck. But I believe, totally believe, that people really do see these things and have these conversations and hear music and beautiful scenery right before they cross over. So, a couple other things I wanted to mention about some of the struggles that caregivers feel when having a loved one or caring for somebody with Alzheimer's disease and dementia. Somebody said, what no one tells you about dementia is that it can slowly kill the entire family. My father is physically and emotionally exhausted. My sisters and I help when we can, but it's not enough. So we feel constantly stressed, guilty, and terribly sad, and sometimes we take it out on each other. I wouldn't wish this disease on anyone. Another lady said, "Sometimes I feel so guilty for not handling this well. The self-doubt comes in and I feel so selfish for wanting my life back. I feel selfish because my husband deals with it far better than me, but I feel guilty because I have a roof over my head, food to eat, the love of my life, and my dog." "But it's so hard worrying and wondering when the next outburst from my loved one will be because the worst of it comes out in me. I don't want to live like this and I don't know how to express that or deal with it on some days. And today happens to be one of those days." I hear these kind of expressions and feelings from many, many, many caregivers, and that's why I chose the ones that I chose to share with you, Betsy, and the listeners. Because if you do feel these ways, it's very common, you're not alone, and it's— it's— there's no shame in feeling this way. What would you say to that? To our listeners, Betsy.

You've been through this yourself. Yes, that's true. A caregiver guilt is, um, I think that's just part of the package. And, you know, I said I wouldn't feel guilty after Matt died, and I did. I felt very guilty. And I will, um, say that when you have unjustified guilt like, like most caregivers do. You did your best and the person unfortunately is going to die, but you feel guilty. Well, I should have done this. If I would have done that, if I would have called up a different hospice, that this would have happened. You could drive yourself crazy, and guilt is an energy drainer. Um, I suggest, you know, let it go. Um, it's hard to let it go. That's going to weigh you down and drive you crazy. And I had to learn to let it go. It wasn't easy, but I learned to let it go. And that's where I, I— again, I highly recommend counseling because it's hard to deal with this by yourself. It really is. And you have a lot of mixed emotions during caregiving. There were times I did resent taking care of Matt, and I resented taking care of his mom. And, and this is a situation— yes, um, having a diagnosis of Alzheimer's or another dementia has been known to tear families apart when they really should be together, um, working together. But supporting each other. Yeah. Um, I've— what's next?

Over and over and over again. And it's happened in my own family. I've had 8 family members and a dog who have lived with these debilitating diseases that cause dementia. So, how many of you out there in the audience today can relate to everything that we're saying? And I hope you don't feel like you're the only one who feels this way because it's part of the journey that we all experience, whether we're the caregiver, whether we're the family member, or whether we're the person who has the disease. They go through a lot of emotional ups and downs themselves and a lot of frustrated feelings. Betsy, can I ask you one more question that I think— Sure. —would really be valuable to to our audience. If there— I mean, you've given us so many wonderful and valuable pieces of advice based on your personal experience and also all the people you've interviewed over the years on this topic. But what would you say would be probably the— biggest piece of advice that you can share based on everything you've been through that you think could help somebody who's on this journey today, make their life a little easier to deal with or not feel quite as burdened as they may be feeling while being in this situation? Wow, that's a—

yeah, there's a lot. I, I I talk about like what I wish I knew, and I wish I knew resources. I wish I knew resources to help Matt. So, I highly recommend that a person find resources. If you need a geriatric consultant to help you with placement, help you find hospice, I wish I had someone to help me navigate the hospice system, and I highly recommend that. Get into support groups. The Alzheimer's Association has many across the country, probably international. Look in your local area. A lot of times, Lisa, we don't know our local resources. So, I would— Contact your senior center. They, um, mine is great. They should know resources. Listen to Lisa Skinner's show. Uh, you have a wonderful show with resources. Um, my show, Chatting with Betsy, you know, we, we who have gone through this, Lisa, are very passionate to help others. And that's, you know, that's the, um That's what we are here for. I just, literally, I just interviewed someone 2 weeks ago who lives in the next town who could have helped me with Matt if I had known about her. Did not know. So this is so important to know about resources. And you know what, folks, you're not alone. You don't have to do this alone. We're not super robots. Um, get help. It's okay. It's okay to say, "I need help." It's okay to know your limitations of when to place someone. Um, and I know that placing someone, people feel guilty about it. They think that they failed their loved one. You did not fail your loved one. Sometimes they need more care than what we could give. Sometimes it is a matter of safety. The health of the caregiver is at stake. You need really, it's okay to need help. Put away the Superwoman or Superman cape. And you know, it's okay to need help. Take care of yourself also. Self-care is a matter of life and death, literally. Many caregivers, as you know, Lisa Skinner Skinner Skinner, die during or after caregiving. And if you want quality of life, you need to care for yourself.

And I'm sure you know this as well as I do and everybody listening to this show, that caregivers go through more than they will ever tell you. They give up a lot and rarely have a social life. They get sick and emotionally worn out. It's a lot for one person, and you will never know until you have walked the road of a caregiver. Especially a caregiver for somebody with these brain diseases because they lose the ability to— not only do they lose themselves, but they lose the ability to communicate with us, and we really have to put those Sherlock Holmes hats on and figure everything out. And, you know, I can't think of of a lot of things that take as much of a toll on a person as this job does. And your advice, I agree with everything that you have shared with us. And one of the key things that I've learned in the 30 years that I've been doing this, and you mentioned it earlier on in the conversation, when we first started talking about this. I find this is absolutely key, and you mentioned it. Learn all you can about this disease and be prepared, because you never know what's going to show up on a day-to-day basis. So the more that you are prepared to handle the behaviors that show up and the outbursts and all the symptoms the easier and less stressful of a time you'll have. And then what will that enable you to do? Get back to what really matters, and that's spending quality time with your loved one, and you can take those memories with you throughout your life, even after they're gone. Anything else you want to share with us, Betsy, before we— close this episode off? Well, thank you for having me on, Lisa and Ken.

I just want to tell the caregivers, sometimes, you know, we are in our own way, and I agree with Lisa, education will help you so much. I wish I knew how to handle my mother-in-law's hallucinations. I didn't know. I did not handle it properly because I didn't know any better. And I'm so glad I was educated because I had a much better and different experience with Matt when he hallucinated. And I'll tell you what, you become a great actor. You get to learn improv, and you really— it's a mindset, Lisa Skinner Skinner. I had a mindset I was not going to let this disease defeat me. When Matt was alive, and, and even in grieving. And I will not give it the power.

But it's so hard to keep telling yourself that while you're in the eye of the storm. It's true. And to it, I know. Yeah. Well, that's very true. Much for sharing your, your experiences with everybody today. I'm sure that they have helped people in this situation tremendously. I'd also like to thank our listeners for being here with us today, and I hope you have— will be able to take away some really valuable advice and information from our discussion. You know, there's so much information to cover when it comes to this topic, and we will be discussing them in our upcoming webinar. Upcoming episodes. It's really important to me to provide you with information that you will find helpful and valuable throughout your journey with this disease. And remember, dementia awareness is every day, and kindness is the ability to speak with love, listen with compassion, and act with patience. These are all— and I know Betsy will agree with me— all very necessary attributes to have in order to outlast this heartbreaking disease. I'm going to turn the mic over to Ken before we close. He has a few last announcements for us. So Ken, back to you. Thanks, Lisa.

Thank you for listening to the Truth, Lies, and Alzheimer's Show with your host Lisa Skinner. And a huge thank you to today's guest, Betsy Wurzel. Betsy, thank you for sharing your experience, strength, and hope. It was truly inspirational. Betsy also has a show on Passionate World Talk Radio called Chatting with Betsy, so please check that out. You can find both shows on our website at passionateworldtalkradio.com under the shows tab. And on YouTube under Passionate World Talk Radio. You can find Lisa Skinner on Facebook under Lisa Skinner Author, and you can find her books and more information about her at truthliesalzheimers.com. And with that, Lisa, take us out.

Okay, just one last note. This show is about you and how my experiences, Betsy's experiences, experiences, expertise, and knowledge will be able to help you and your loved one have an easier time while struggling through this disease. We both know how difficult this is. I'm sure Betsy would love to hear your comments, as I would too, and suggestions about what we discussed today. Anything you share with me, I will be happy to pass on to Betsy since we do work together on another show. You can send them to dementiawhisperer1@gmail.com. Also, if you're listening to this on YouTube or if you got here through our social media page, please leave your comments or questions and I promise you I'll do my best to get back to you and address them. Them. I will genuinely look forward to receiving your thoughts and ideas. And in the meantime, take care of you. Talk to you next week. Bye, everybody.