Episode 75 - In conversation with Liz Syms, SMP Chair

Welcome to the PfP podcast from the Personal Finance Society, A place for thought provoking discussion from the world of financial planning and beyond. I'm Adam Harper, Executive Director, Strategy, Advocacy and Professional Standards at the CII Group. And in today's podcast I'm speaking to the Chair of the Society of Mortgage Professionals Board, Liz Sims. Hi Liz. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today.

Hi Adam.

So we're both new to this podcast, so it's probably worth introducing ourselves to our listeners. And if you are happy, I can start and then throw it over to you. Liz, is that okay?

Yeah, no, that's great, thanks.

Excellent. Thank you. So I've been at the CI Group now for just over three months and within the role that I have, I work closely with all of our professional community bodies, the smp, the claims broking and underwriting community boards. And where I think that's really helpful is the way in which it helps to support the work that I'm doing from a point of view of our thought leadership activity, helping to deliver to the CII Group's ambition to become the go to source of intelligent analysis and informed views on insurance and financial planning matters. And so what I'm keen to do through my role and working closely with the SNP and the other community boards is to develop our evidence base and strengthen the information that we can gather to kind of convert that analysis into something which then represents a really compelling public agenda for change. That's what I wanted to open out with and invite your thoughts, Liz, and get your perspective on your role.

Yes, of course. Well, as you said, Liz Sims, I am also the CEO of Connectfire Intermediaries. I actually started out in the business myself as a mortgage advisor. So I'm kind of fully aware of what mortgage advisors have to go through every single day. And I'm now a mortgage network that represents over three hundred and fifty advisors. So it's great to be on the board. I've been on the board for a few years already and I'm looking forward to my role as the chair to drive even further the professionalism in our mortgage industry. So, yeah, pleased to be here.

Fantastic. Just remind me, Liz, how long have you been chair? It's a relatively new role for you as well, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. Just literally since April.

Fantastic. Well, even though it has only been April and I've only been in post myself since March, we have had the opportunity to talk about the SNP on a, on a couple of occasions and I had the benefit of being able to attend One of the meetings for the snp, which will have been your first one as chair, I assume. Let's start there, really. I mean, from your perspective as chair and given that you've been on the SMP for a number of years beforehand, what do you see that the value of the SMP is? What are its aims and opportunities for you, in your eyes?

I think for me the biggest value is that opportunity to raise the awareness of the professionalism of the mortgage industry and to increase that professionalism in the mortgage industry in the consumer's eyes. You know, it's not just about exams, it's about what we do after those exams, what behaviours we have, what skills we develop, what experience we have and that continued professional development. So, you know, in my mind, I know from experience, mortgage advising is a very skilled and complex job and buying a home is the biggest thing that most people do in their lives and, you know, most people need to finance that. So, you know, it's my view that mortgage advisors should be recognized with the same level of professionalism as, you know, others in the financial industry like IFAs and so on. So I think we got a great opportunity at the Society of Mortgage Professionals to kind of raise that awareness in both the industry and the consumer's eyes.

Stephen, I'd completely agree with that. Having had the benefit of attending a meeting of the Society of Mortgage Professionals earlier in my tenure, it's clear to me that we've gotten some real expert practitioners on the S and P, who I'm keen to work more closely with to kind of provide some strategic guidance on things like emerging trends, regulatory changes and to your point, around that sort of best practice dynamic, because I can see that that insight will be hugely important in ensuring that we're focused and staying relevant to current industry challenges. I guess to some extent it's looking at ways in which we can then leverage that even further through the development of valuable content that would support some of the thought leadership pieces on those critical issues that affect the industry. And also closely involved in some sort of organization and hosting of roundtables with a cross selection of relevant participants from across the profession and indeed wider landscape that then would draw out some of those critical points that you made around professionalization and how the SNP helps to support that agenda.

Yeah, absolutely. I think there are lots of challenges facing our mortgage professionals at the moment. So, you know, what we can do as a board, as a team, is to help mortgage advisors, us to meet some of those challenges.

So let's pick up on that. I Mean, you know, you've referenced the fact that you see there to be a number of challenges. What would you consider those challenges that facing mortgage professionals are at this point in time?

Well, I think there are the common ones that we all know. You know, the market pressures, the changing of interest rates, you know, those have been around for some time and continue to challenge mortgage advisors and you know, global uncertainty, inflation, those sorts of things totally out of our control. But they do lead into the confidence of the market and the ability for advisors to run their businesses. So that that continues to be a challenge. But I think, you know, some of the things that are facing advisors moving forward are things like regulatory change. We've seen the most recent PA paper from the FCA with regards to their proposals and there's a number of things on that paper that could present further challenges for mortgage advisors. So that in itself could change the landscape for mortgage advisors a little bit in terms of the amount of business maybe that is intermediated in the future. And I think the other the challenge on that is that changing digital landscape that we're facing at the moment. And I think the particular challenge around that is the additional skills that mortgage advisors will need to adopt to be able to continue running successful businesses in an increasing digital world.

Basically, I think that point about skills is a really valid one. Just reflecting on some of the content that was captured in the recent FSSC report on the future of skills. And I think that's something which is broadly seen across a number of different sectors. There's a challenge in terms of the talent and skills gap that exists. There's a challenge in terms of being able to attract new entrants into the profession. But also to your point, it's also recognizing the need to upskill and reskill existing members of the profession so that they can develop those skills that respond to the changes in technology and in some instances the changes in regulation that have a bearing on what's required of them within those roles. And how do you see what we might be able to do with the board to help surface some of those challenges and provide some useful thought leadership and prompting some further activities to challenge the advisors to engage with those issues?

I think it's that education, isn't it? It's that giving access to the information that is relevant to the advisors needs, understanding what those advisors needs are. Most people, you know, when it comes to kind of technology, the vast majority have heard of things like AI and ChatGPT and they might be using it for some basic things, but they don't necessarily know where they could use it to improve their businesses, you know, in, in a much bigger way. The customer journey at the moment in the mortgage market can be, you know, quite, quite lumpy for. Want to put a word? It seems bonkers to me in this day and age that a customer has to give their identification to a mortgage advisor and also to the lender and also to the solicitor and also to the estate agent. So, you know, there's, there's work on that digital transformation process that is happening at the moment. But how many advisers are aware of the work from the opda, for example, which is setting data standards to align all of those systems and enable the sharing of the data of things like ID and property information and so on and so forth. And that's quite a lot of information that advisors perhaps will really benefit from. You know, government is behind this kind of transformation as well. With recently and in. Angela Rainer, I think it was in, in February, announced that they are planning to digitalise the home buying process. So what does that mean for advisors? What do they need to do to prepare? Who are the opda? What systems will they need to be able to do that? These are all things that, you know, when we're, if we're in a position to be able to understand that, to be able to share that and help and guide advisors on what they need to do moving forward.

That's a fantastic summary of the role that the board can play in helping advisors to navigate all that's going on in the world around them. And then the ultimate beneficiaries of that, through that sort of simplification model, are the consumers of the services that the advisors provide, which is ultimately what we'd be looking for. Having touched on challenges, are there any particular trends or changes that you think might come into play over the course of the next 12 months, on top of the challenges that you've already mentioned?

Well, I think the CP25 paper has potential, as I said earlier, to change the landscape a little bit. If the regulations open the door to more execution only transactions, for example, there's a couple of things there. What does that mean for advisors? How do they adhere to those regulations? If they have customers that want to go down the execution only journey, how do they identify when that's not appropriate? Perhaps, for example, with vulnerable customers, but also what sort of effect may that have with their businesses? What sort of challenges might they face from lenders looking to encourage customers going more direct or digital brokers emerging in the marketplace? So there's a number of things there. It's how do they manage the advice process with this new piece of legislation that is likely to come into play, and how do they also manage their businesses with those additional outside challenges as well? So I think that will be quite a topical conversation piece over the next 12 months.

That's really interesting. We had a meeting of the Profession Standards Committee earlier today, and that issue around that consultation was one of those that was being discussed around the table. And it, to me, represents exactly the sort of benefit that having a closer relationship with the Board will deliver, because to capture that insight around what the proposed regulatory changes are likely to mean in practice will be an important thing to feed into any response that we submit to the FCA on that consultation. So, yeah, that's fascinating. Thank you. I mean, given all of that, given all of the changes, the challenges that we've talked about, and the sort of trends and changes that you've just been expanding upon, it perhaps might be really useful if we just talk a little bit about what members can expect from the Society for the rest of 2025 and beyond from both of our perspectives, because we've got a busy program already planned. We've gotten a series of webinars that we'll be looking to run covering a variety of different topics. And on top of the webinar sessions, we've also gotten the Skills and Development Professional Growth series on topics such as behavioral finance and advice and empowering growth, and then a number of podcasts that we're continuing to. Given that already busy program that we've got lined up, is there anything in particular that you're looking forward to amongst those activities?

Yeah, I think certainly the things like the webinars and podcasts and things like that, they actually do feed into probably another area that we're seeing more and more of in the industry, which is that need for specialist advice. With customers having more diverse incomes, more challenges themselves in terms of things like affordability, giving members access to the more specialist areas, second charge knowledge, bridging knowledge, those types of things that will help advisers, obviously, to expand what they can offer their customers and help their customers through. Sometimes go to the high street lender and the lender says, well, no, I can't help you. They do that two or three times and customers think that actually they can't get any help, but there's loads and loads of other mortgage options out there in the specialist market that will be able to help the customer. So the more the advisors become aware of those types of products, the more they can help their customers. So I think that's one particular area. I think that skills side and the behavioral area I think is really, really good as well. I think one of the things that the SNP do really, really well is the professional map. And I don't know how many advisors, even within the Society of Mortgage Professionals are fully aware of that and the benefits it can bring them to really help look at what skills they have currently and what skills they would need to develop to progress within their careers. So, you know, I'm really interested in seeing how increasing the awareness of that can help advisers as well to move forward in their careers and increase their professionalism to the benefit of everybody.

That's a really good point. I mean, I'm already a huge advocate for the professional MAP and the impact that it can and will have, doubtless across the different membership communities. And so I am thrilled to hear that you're keen to see us raise awareness around that and to kind of get greater levels of engagement amongst the sort of mortgage advisors community. Because fundamentally it is something which provides that sort of competency framework that helps develops an understanding and an awareness around how throughout the career journey you're able to develop those skills and behaviors that complement the technical specialist knowledge that you've got in a way that really adds value. You can often have people who are brilliant technical specialists, but to then be able to complement that with the sort of behavioral and enabling skills that that encompasses engaging with technology, but also the interpersonal dynamics that are hugely important part of the business. So that's definitely the ambition that I share with you, mindful of the need to perhaps look to draw this to a close. Liz, is there anything else that you wanted to particularly draw out as part of this opportunity that we have to look ahead to the coming year?

I think what can we do as an industry to raise consumer awareness of mortgage advisors as a professional, I think is really, really important. And, you know, somebody like the Society of Mortgage Professionals is in a great place to be able to work with other bodies within our industry and really help to shine a spotlight on what we do, what we can offer and what is, you know, the value of advice and working with a professional is the most effective thing that the majority of people can do with the biggest transaction they'll probably do in their lives.

Yeah, very true. And I think the power of that kind of collaborative approach cannot be underestimated. So, yeah, that's really helpful. Well, thank you, Liz, for joining me on the podcast today and indeed, thank you to the rest of you. For listening to this podcast. You can find useful links in the show notes and related articles on the Personal Finance Professional website, along with further podcasts. Please like review and subscribe. So until next time, goodbye.