The Illusion of Healthy Eating: What Most People Are Missing

Welcome back, Synergy listeners. We are so excited to have you on our podcast today. Today we are talking about regeneration, not just in the soil but in the body. Joining us today is James Berry, founder and CEO of Pluck, a regenerative food company bringing nose-to-tail nutrition back to the modern table. James has spent his career at the intersection of ancestral wisdom, culinary innovation, and sustainable farming, reminding us that true vitality begins at the root. The conversation goes well beyond food today. It's all about rebuilding strength from the inside out, restoring what modern life has depleted, and redefining what real nourishment and real resilience truly means. So thank you so much, James, for joining us today. We are just— we're excited about the conversation, and our listeners need what you have. So if you don't mind us starting out by asking you a very important question. What inspired you to start Pluck, and how did your personal health journey shape the way that you think about nourishment today?

Yeah, well, thank you both, Kelly, Lori. Thank you so much for having us. It's really— I'm really grateful to have this conversation. You know, so I've been a professional chef for 22 years, and so I have always been about flavor. I just think flavor is what moves the needle, uh, on what attracts us to a food or not. But it was really, it really shifted for me when I became a father because now it's not just about flavor, it's about health. And when my youngest daughter, actually both daughters, we were traveling to Canada, we'd come back, they were both pretty young. The youngest was about 1 and the oldest was 5. They got Shiga toxin, which if people don't know what that is, it's a form of E. coli and it's deadly. You can't take an antibiotic. You, you, it's deadly for particularly really, really young children and the elderly, cuz you basically can't hold anything in your body. And my oldest got through it pretty quick, 3 days, but my youngest, it just wouldn't leave. And it was about— she was about 8 days in, just skin and bones. It was really frightening as a parent. And I just, I got this hit of like, oh, I just wish there was something that had a no barrier to entry. And the first food she finally could hold in was toast. And, you know, here I am, a chef, and I'm like watching my kitty piece of gluten-free toast, which really isn't that healthy. Um, and I was just sitting there going like, I wish I could just sprinkle something on there that would make it healthy because she wouldn't budge. You know, when you get sick and you, you have your first food that doesn't make you sick, you kind of get addicted to it and it's your safe food. And so she would not try anything else. Uh, gratefully though She got through that, but it did spark that idea of how do I get nutrient-dense foods into my diet, into my kids' diets. And then that took me down the rabbit hole. Now, I had already learned about organ meats and ancestral eating when I was first becoming a chef. I learned about Weston A. Price, which we don't have to go into it here, but if, if you don't know about Weston A. Price, anyone listening, highly recommend you look it up. It's fascinating, the studies that this dentist pulled off that no one else had actually done beforehand.

Him.

Um, so I learned about that then, but I didn't really incorporate it because I didn't grow up eating these foods. I mostly as a chef just focused on real food, but when I became a father, I focused on the most nutrient-dense foods. And there is a difference, and I think, I think we'll definitely be going into that. But there is an illusion of health out there. Like, people think, oh, if I eat broccoli, I'm going to be healthy. If I eat you know, açaí berries, I'm going to be healthy. But for the most part, it's, it's real, it's just really marketing. And so I was really just trying to get down to the bottom of this, of like what really is, really truly is the most nutrient-dense foods. I identified organ meats like beef liver, kidney, heart, those kind of things, identified those as being the most nutrient-dense, most bioavailable, meaning that our bodies absorb them. And then it was all about like, how do I get this in people's diets? Because no one wants to eat them. They think they're icky. They don't know how to cook them or don't want to cook them. They don't know where to source them. And so I set out to solve that.

I love that. And I love that you, you know, you took an adverse event with your child and thought, okay, how can I— how can I make this better? And realizing that I'm sure as you're as a chef, you saw a lot of disparity with food too. What people would eat versus what they should be eating, right? And figuring out how to make it taste good, how to make them excited about what they're eating. I would love to hear more about that. Like, what was your journey as a chef?

It's a huge learning when you notice what people really— like, what really makes someone willing to make a change to their diet. And in my time working with people, I identified it really as there's only two reasons people make changes. And it's, it's something I've been working on for the, the last 15 years of trying to figure out how to make it so it's not just these two reasons. But basically, the thing that moves someone's health needle, meaning that this is the reason they would actually make a change, move away from comfort foods, was because they themselves got sick or someone they love died. It literally took that much for someone to change. And what that really— how I looked at that and how I continue to look at that is that, well, we are humans first. We seek comfort, we seek regularity, we seek safety. And we live in a modern society that is in many ways not safe. We're being given food that's tricking our bodies. That causes lots of inflammation and other chronic illnesses. And whether people are feeling those illnesses or not, they exist. They're in your, your body knows, feels it. And so your body's in a constant state of shock and awe, just of like, how do I do this? And it really, I think the way that most of us can identify this is just, how do you feel after a meal? Do you feel bloated? Do you have to undo your pants? That's the sign of shock and awe. Like that's your body saying, this doesn't feel good, right? So whether you're in, in your body and you can actually feel it or not, your body is experiencing it, guaranteed. We live in a toxic soup where, where our, our hormones and our immune systems are constantly being challenged by these toxins that are foreign to our biology. Ultimately, um, what it all leads to is that we're not going to find the answers to getting healthy in a grocery store, in a restaurant from these influencers that I, that I ultimately think that what we need to do is as much as possible remove, like be honest with our kind of human desires. And instead of looking outward, try to look more inward. And I will share as well that in my time, what I've identified will get someone to turn a healthy food into a lifestyle. Is that it has to embody two things. It has to be both easy and delicious. It can't be one, it has to be both. And it really does speak to our human nature that we look for things that are easy and we look for things that are tasty. And that was kind of both a really cool learning, but it's also, you know, it all leads back to like, you know, we gotta be honest with ourselves. Willpower doesn't exist. You know, that's not going to get you your whole life. That's not going to get you lifestyle. Just doing it because you want to do it, it's not going to do it. You got to dig deep because the world is challenging us in every way.

You're so right. You know, one of the things we talk about a lot is changing your lifestyle, specifically in the way of whether that be food or movement or just moving the needle towards living healthier. It's never easy. It, it gets easier, you know, learn better, do better. But it does have to get easier over time or a person won't stay with it. And I agree with you also about the palate needs to be intrigued. You know, when people are first changing their diet, one of the things that we experience— I would say Kelly probably says this in her clinic too— is you'll have people that repetitively eat the same foods over and over and over again. And they'll say like, listen, if I eat one more piece of chicken, I feel like I'm gonna have feathers. You know, and we're like, well, how are you cooking that chicken? Have you thought about doing it this way or that way? Have you added this spice, this herb? Do you even know what those things do? Not just to your palate being intrigued, but the, the, the benefits of your health with, with using those things. So I can imagine that that was part of the inspiration too, is, you know, how can you create not only a product, but something that can also tempt and tease that palate and intrigue it too. So I just think it was brilliant.

Thank you. Well, I mean, the palate's fascinating. You know, the palate is a resource that we really don't use on many levels. So I'll address the most obvious level, which is it affects our taste buds, as you're mentioning. And the palate though, if you think about it, it can also support how do I take a, a picky eater and make them more adventurous. So most people look at it behaviorally or they'll look at it emotionally, but I like to look at it just physically through the palate. So in a sense, when you're dealing with a picky eater, you're really dealing with someone that is conditioned towards two flavors, salty and sweet, 'cause that's what the American, you know, standard American diet is, right? And so when you only, similar to if you remember when you were a kid and you were drinking all that soda pop back in the day, Did you ever have one of those summers where you drank so much juice and soda pop that the first time you went to have water it was gross? It was like, I, I used to have— I remember way, way back in the day I'd have summers like that where the summers were filled with just juices, fruits, and soda, so that when I then had that water it was like gross and plain. Well, that's just because my palate had been conditioned right? And so when you want to get someone to be more adventurous physically, you just have to introduce the other flavors. And so we have the four that we were taught growing up, you know, the bitter, sour, salty, sweet. But then since then they've discovered umami, which was in the '90s. That's kind of— I would classify that as more savory. Um, and then they're even identifying a sixth one now. They, they think it's rancid food. Rancid food has its own flavor, which makes sense to me, right? Because that's a survival thing. Um, so that's one way is you can use the palate to— you, you just have to get those flavors in. So if the kid is salty sweet, then you start to incorporate bitter, sour, and umami flavors in. Fortunately, Pluck is very umami. So when we get people using our seasoning, it's more than just flavor. It's actually helping to reshape their palate. So that's kind of cool on that level. On another level, the palate is ancestral. So it's our communication pathway that is telling us whether— going back to what I said earlier— is this food safe or is it going to kill me? Because that's really ultimately ancestrally— because this is something people forget— is this human body, we, we call this Homo sapiens. Right? And it's 250,000 years old. The biology is, is truly ancestral. These Frankenfoods we're eating are only, what, 100 years old? I mean, it— when you compare them, the body's biology, 250,000+ years, the foods we're currently eating, 100. It's like a pinprick in a lifetime, right? And, and so we, we really have to rethink what this palate— this— but the biology of our palate, what was it designed communicate? Well, ultimately it was, is this food going to kill me or is it going to nourish me? That's the basic knowledge. But it was extremely serious because if you ate the wrong thing, you died, right? You didn't have nutritional facts boxes and ingredient labels to tell you what's in it. So there, there was truly like, oh, what's this? It smells good. And so you used your, your communication pathway, which are senses, to inform you of what to do next. And I think we've forgotten that, that this 250,000-year-old biology needs these senses, needs our palate, needs the taste, needs the touch, needs the hearing, needs every aspect of this communication pathway to know, is this food going to nourish me? How much of it do I need? When do I stop? Right? All the, all the communication pathways that we are losing in modern society and modern eating, and thus why we have this obesity issue and why we have chronic illness is we're, we're not tapping into this 250,000-year-old biology. We're, we're trying to bypass it with capsules.

I love that. You said a lot, and I want to go back to the palate and the taste buds because we get this a lot. Lori Esarey MS, both of our practices are founded on food first, and so we have people coming in and they're only eating a small amount of food diversity, right? Like, they, they know what they like, that's their go-to, it's easy, it's quick, they're done, right? And so getting their palate open up to be able to take in new foods and enjoy the food, and that's ultimately what we want. So I have historically used powders like green powders and things like that to start getting some of that in, but they're flavored typically, you know, they've got some chocolate or something like that. I'm just curious about if that's working as well as we think it could. Or I've also used a product called Juice Plus, which is a fruit and vegetable extract. It is a capsule, but even with the capsules, we see changes. Like, we do see changes over time because we have taste buds in our esophagus and stomach as well. It's not just our tongue. But I've seen some profound changes over time titrating that in as we're making diet changes as well.

Yeah, I, I do think particularly when— first of all, the fact that they're working with you is, is really important, right? I think too many people out there are making self-diagnose, you know, they're self-diagnosing and they're, they're going down these rabbit holes unnecessarily, and they're spending way more time and energy and money than they technically need to if they just worked with, you know, someone that understood these things. So I think that's, first of all, good that they're seeing you. I think that I'll address first the palate regarding the capsules. Um, we are the only species in the world that looks to someone else to tell us what to eat. Like, take that in for a second, right? There's 9 million+ species, so why are we so special? Well, ultimately we're not. We are a species just like any others. We're just— we just happen to have a very large brain that complicates things. Right. So we're already in this scenario where we're overthinking everything and we're mucking up the food systems so much that we don't even really deal with the root cause. We ultimately just keep messing, you know, keep addressing the symptom. And I think about— so I'm reading this book right now called The Third Plate by Dan Barber. And he talks about how the prairie was full of perennial grasses that held soil in place and the roots were deep. If anything, the roots were like a— the way a tree looks to us on the outside of the ground, that's the way the roots looked in the soil. They were so dense that they not only held the soil together, but it meant that on the top of the soil, that perennial grass could— anything could happen to it and it would still be alive. It'd still be nourished and still be cared for, and, and, and, and it would also still be healthy. Key, right? Well, what happens is that we came in and we thought, well, we're going to plow this up and we're going to put in annual wheat, meaning that the perennial grasses can just grow ongoing, get chopped down, they'll continue to grow perennial wheat. Has a cycle. It grows, and then you got to replant a seed to make it a new plant the next, the next season, right? So, so one is like a, a root system that is healthy and alive and ever expanding, really, right? And the other is cyclical and controlled and is basically soaking in, taking in nutrients but not giving back much., right? And that's why you have to keep fertilizing the soils. So in many ways, we created this mess of where we have no topsoil, where we have food that is not as nutrient-dense. Then it's, it's this, and I'm using this as just one little case study, but the reality is, is we apply this thinking, this very ignorant, uh, human thinking to everything. Look at like the poultry industry. We put the chickens in these little cages and then they would start pecking at each other. And they would actually start causing more harm to them. And then that doesn't help us because we're trying to, you know, have them grow up big enough where we can then profit off their meat, right? So what do we do? We don't go, oh, maybe we shouldn't have put those in those cages. We go, let's just burn off their beaks so they can no longer peck at each other. And that's what we do continually. And that is even in our medical system. It's simple. You're looking at the symptom and constantly solving the symptom instead of looking at the root cause. And it's literally pervasive in every aspect of our lives. So no wonder that we're suffering. No wonder that we continue this very way of thinking. It's because our entire society and our food systems and our health systems are all built in the same way. So I, I guess what I offer is that the minute that you as a person, as you're going down this path of trying to get healthier, trying to eat, I think first of all we have to have humility. Like we have to, we have to take ownership of that. The way that we think we're supposed to do it is probably not 100%. It's probably beholden to this same kind of chronic thinking that I just identified, but it's also probably beholden to the, to the current science. So I'm not saying to not work with someone. Obviously, I think it's important to work with someone, but I also think that you have to— just like a woman who's pregnant goes into the hospital, have that baby, the doctors may say, you got to do this. But the woman has an— she has a motherly instinct, and you cannot take that away from her. And the minute you do is when she has trauma around her birth. But if you just let her dictate the pace, let her dictate what feels right, let her follow that motherly instinct, it usually ends up okay. And I think the same is true for us as humans when we're looking at diet. Whether you're working with a practitioner or not, you still have to go inward and take a breath and like really let your biology, let this ancestral sacred biology speak to you because it will. We get signs all the time. I mean, the simplest sign we get that I think most people can identify with, and I can, I can name more, but the simplest one is when you try to lift something that's too heavy, what happens to your grip? Gives out. That is your body's communicating saying that this is too much. You're going to hurt yourself. You're going to hurt me. And I'm here to survive. Don't do this. Right. It shows up all the time when you're in the grocery store. You go to try to grab something off the shelf and it falls out of your hand. You go to try to pick it up again and won't— you can't seem to get a good grip on it. Or maybe you have flatulence when you go, or burping or some kind of like react physical reaction when you go to grab something. These are all signs we're just not listening.

And the pace of our world is go, go, go, do, do, do, not stopping, not engaging our senses. I mean, it's so much more multifactorial than that, right? So many things. But, you know, the pace to which we're expected to live and the rush just further worsens all of this. And, you know, I go back to also traditional medicine in and of itself and having been traditionally trained and then transitioning into integrative, holistic, regenerative medicine. You know, we're trained, honestly, it's you have however many minutes, listen to a quick symptom and just give, you know, give a reply to fix that problem. And, you know, in functional and integrative medicine, it truly is stop, listen, pause, engage them into their plan of care, teach. Like you said, there's a lot of— there's intuitiveness, intuitive natures, there's things in us. And our goal truly isn't to tell them what to do. It's to bring knowledge to them and opening the world of knowledge that they have access to and encouraging them to listen, look, read, apply, and be the CEO of their health.

And I, I love that. And, and I would add that I think that if we, if we really want to kind of merge this holistic medicine with the ancestral, is that we also have to— the minute you, you have that first client, is, is one of the first questions should be, do you believe you heal. Because if you don't believe it, as in— and this is for everyone listening— like, if we don't believe it as individuals, it won't happen. Because no matter what a practitioner tells you, no matter what an influencer tells you, no matter what supplements you take, your body, your, your, your mindset will dictate whether you properly digest that, whether you assimilate it, whether you actually get healthy. And so if you don't believe it's possible, It won't happen. And this is scientific. I mean, there's that— there was that study recently done with the cancer patients. I'm sure you, you know it, but I'll read— I'll share it. But it's basically where they— there were some that were having chemo, real chemotherapy. There were some that were given pills that were told it was, you know, chemotherapy. And the ones that were getting the water, the sugar pills that weren't actually chemotherapy, they had chemotherapy reactions. So they actually had hair loss. They had— it was as though they were getting chemotherapy. So usually in, in, um, in placebo effect, you're seeing something not happen, but here you were seeing something happening. So it shows you that the brain really does— like, your state of mind when you're going down any of these paths really matters. And, and I, hands down, I believe it's the game changer for everything. If you actually believe you can heal and And two, I think you have to practice gratitude/humility that you're not alone, that whether you're working with a practitioner or not, that you have answers within you, but they're not just your brain figuring it out. It's like an ancestral knowledge, almost like it's built into your DNAs and part of this sacred biology that we have. Because this human body, man, I mean, I hope everyone listening can acknowledge how sacred and how precious it is. I mean, I think about, you know, growing up there were these two families I knew where the fathers, they basically killed themselves with alcohol poisoning. So they drank for 55, 60 years of their life, but they died at like in their 70s. And on a certain level, you can hear that and go like, oh, that's so sad. But I look at that and I go, well, that's amazing. Like they were poisoning their bodies. With alcohol, their liver, their whole body, for over 50 years, and yet their body still kept ticking, kept going. Like, that shows you how amazingly precious and miraculous this body is.

And if we give it what it needs to flourish, create this environment, this milieu, this, this environment that it has the capability to heal— it, it is constantly in a healing process.

Yes, totally.

So James, can you tell us a little bit more about ancestral eating? Like, what does that mean to you? And then tie that into Pluck.

Yeah, I mean, you know, it is funny because we're talking— I'm throwing around this word ancestral, but— and even when I talk about Pluck, a lot of times we say, oh, you can turn any food into an ancestral food by, you know, sprinkling it on. But if I'm really honest with everybody, there's nothing in our food systems right now that's ancestral. Nothing. Like even organ meats, because— yeah, so, so really what we're talking about when we say ancestral is we're talking about a concept, not a literal, like, this food is ancestral. Because the reality is, is our ancestors didn't eat cows. They didn't eat these kind of agriculture, you know, these, these bred animals that we have now that are very farmed, these farmed animals. That's, you know, yes, your great-grandparents. But I think when we say ancestral, we're imagining our Paleolithic you know, ancestors. And these, these foods did not exist then. And we've manipulated the system so much that none of the vegetables we now are what they used to be, really. None of the grains— there weren't grains back in the day, but you know what I mean? The wild roots, the wild— most people aren't eating that kind of stuff, nor could you find it in the way it was then. So I think when we talk about ancestral, we just have to be— we have to focus more on the concept or the perspective of, of the philosophy of it. So the idea that I— how I look at it is, instead ancestral really needs to embody 3 things is you want food that has flavor found in nature, not natural flavors which are added flavors, but food that has flavors that are found in nature. And then you need the food to be nutrient-dense, so that's a whole food, that's, that's a food that is an ingredient versus has ingredients. And then you want to mindfully eat it because that's how our ancestors did it. They didn't have all the distractions, they didn't have all the things that were causing— like, the stress they had was more in the moment, right? It was like, oh, something's chasing me. It wasn't like you're sitting while you eat and you're, you're just sitting in stress, because usually when you were eating, you were in a safe space and you didn't have the kind of modern issues that we have where you're constantly feeling stressed, whether it's from the toxins or from just your career path or from the, the kind of controlled lifestyle we live. Um, so I just have to assume that while they were very stressed out, back in the day too, it was more of a, like, a controlled kind of momentary moment of stress and then lots of time of just downtime and no stress. I mean, that's what I'm just assuming. Um, but I also think though, then we have to look at practices around this. So this idea, this modern idea of like, oh, I'm gonna eat ribeye and liver because that's what said influencer is telling me to do. You know, whether it's Paul Saladino, whatever, all these people, they're like, just eat these 5 foods. It's like, whenever in the history of the world would someone slaughter an animal and only eat one part of the muscle and one of the organs? It just, it just wouldn't have happened. It's, it's a very— as, as Taylor Swift would say, it's champagne problems, right? It's like, it's just not, it's not in reality. Like, if first of all, you're completely disrespecting and not honoring that animal when you don't eat the whole animal. Taking any life is serious, and, and whether that's human or animal or any insect, any kind of life force, that thinking that we have the power just to take it and disregard it, it's just, it's just obscene to me. So first of all, like eating whole animal is environmental. Eating whole animal is planetary. It's honoring that animal. You're using the entire resource, and it is how our ancestors would have eaten philosophically. When you do that, what you find is that you get nutrients that you don't just get from the meat. So I'll give an example of B12. Like, B12 is associated with beef muscle particularly.. And yet I've talked to people who said, yeah, I've, I've had my B12 measured and it's low and I eat beef. And I'm like, that's interesting. They said, but guess what? When it went up is when I ate liver. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting, because they both have B12. But I have to assume it's because if you just practically put a beef muscle, you know, like a ribeye, on the counter and you put liver on the counter and let them get room temperature, just leave them out for 5 hours each, The beef muscle kind of, it keeps its constitution. It doesn't change much. The liver almost melts. So you even just structurally, you look at that and you go, oh yeah, this is way— looking at the beef liver, this is going to way easier absorb because look at how it's melting in room temperature. That's what's going to happen. Your body is warmer than, you know, than that internally. So it's like, so right away I, I got, I got it on a practical level. I was like, oh yeah, that makes more sense that the B12 in the liver is more absorbable than the muscle meat because you don't— it's just, it's structurally different. But you apply that to just like supports like, you know, or you apply that to the other organs. What are their jobs? What do they have to do in the body? We just talked about how miraculous this body is and how the survival instincts, how it will, it will take abuse for 50, 60, 70 years and it will still tick, right? So these these organs have jobs to do. The muscle's job is to move, right, to support movement. The heart's job is to pump that blood. Well, what's so fascinating when you break down— well, what are the different nutrients in all these different parts? For example, the heart, it has Coenzyme Q10, which if you— anyone that's taking a cardiovascular supplement, it's going to have Coenzyme Q10 in it because it supports your heart. But isn't that funny that it's also in heart? The organ. So this idea is that the like supports like. So that means if you are having detoxification issues, it might support you to do some kidney or liver, right? Because those are detoxification organs. If you're having testosterone issues, it might make sense to have the testicles. And what's interesting is this is not just me saying this. Like, in the 1940s, Standard Process, one of the, the OGs of this glandular Space. They did the testing back then and they showed the glandular— the glandular you eat supports the glandular in you. And then you just watch all these other case studies. I mean, I know someone right now, uh, I think he's in his, um, early 40s, a 40-year-old male who has low testosterone, is getting tested, and instead of taking shots, he's just eating testicles. And then he's retesting and it's going up. His testosterone is increasing. So it's not that abnormal to imagine, like, maybe these ancestral foods— or another way of saying it, like, God food, if you're someone that's, that's religious or, or, um, faith-based, or Mother Nature's multivitamin, another way of saying it, right? But either what we're saying when we use these labels, we're ultimately saying is nature did provide, didn't it? It did provide. We just have to utilize her.

And some people listening to this who are completely new to this whole conversation about, you know, like supporting like and eating, you know, testicles or testes, you know, just that, that's like, oh, like, why would I even think about— oh my gosh, that's so disgusting, right? Because I know some of the people listening to that are thinking that. Um, how do you or how do we open up the conversation? Like, what's the very first one that we could probably introduce? Or is there a way to introduce it that they wouldn't be like, huh?

Yeah, well, and this is going to sound like, you know, shameless plugging for me, but it is why I created Pluck. I mean, because I recognize that this is tough. You know, as I mentioned earlier, there's 4 main hurdles. We think this stuff is gross. We don't know how to cook it. We don't know how to source it. The 4th one is we know that we should be eating, so we're taking the capsules. But why, why I have issues with the, with the capsules kind of goes back to what I said earlier, which is the only way to know what your body needs is to get the communication up front. And as you mentioned, we do have, uh, taste bud receptors down below, but that's delayed response. So when I was first creating Pluck, I was getting told that, oh yeah, I already take the capsules, but I usually feel nauseous. And I was like, well, that's interesting because you're probably— that means you're probably getting too much, but you would never know that if you just swallow. They're like, but the bottle says to do 6 to 8 capsules. I'm like, well, how does a business know what your body needs? Here's a woman who's 5'2" and her boyfriend, or the person sitting next to her, is like 6'2" and they're both doing 6 to 8 capsules. And I'm I'm like, what, what? Like, this is craziness. Like, you have completely different needs. So the only way to know what your needs are is you gotta eat the food, and you gotta eat it mindfully, and it's got to be nutrient-dense, real, real flavors found in nature, not flavored with something, right? So that's why I was like, I gotta solve this, but it's got to be a food again. It can't be just this supplement that you take in a capsule.. And so what I did was I created Pluck, and it's got— right now it's got 5 organs. So it's got beef liver, heart, kidney, spleen, and pancreas. I hope to add more organs down the way, down the road, but right now it's got those 5, and they're coming from 100% grass-fed cows. Um, we use salt, we use organic spices and herbs, and I make them taste good. So now literally, this is the, the easiest way to get these organ— this organ meat nutrition into your diet. You just salt your food with it. And now every time you salt your food, you're getting the microdosing of those Orgamides frequently because you— we season our food all the time, and that's cumulative effect. And a lot of people will go like, but how much do I really need? I'm like— and I'm like, but guess what? You're eating it, so your body will tell you how much. Some, some women, you know, during the certain month, time of the month, they might want more, they might want less. You know, you just listen to your body. So what we're trying to support you in is getting these nutrients, getting them in a very like gentle way, because when we get things in too high amounts, our body just wants to eject them, right? When I— you ever notice, like, I, I do protein powder sometimes, and immediately after doing that protein powder, it's like I have to go pee, you know? Or if I do creatine or something like that, it's just like I just gotta go pee so bad. And that's just my body going like, get this out of here, right? When we microdose, when we do small amounts, the body it's gentle on the body. The body can just absorb everything it got. There's nothing really to get rid of because you're just doing a little bit at a time. I love my— I love the concept of microdosing across the board for everything. I just think it's gentler on the human body. I think that our systems are so taxed and overwhelmed that doing things gentler is going to be better well received for an overtaxed body. So that's kind of like pluck for me is easy gateway, first step, but it's not the last step because I, I am truly about like, I want to help people get these organ meats in their diet. So the next thing I would do if you want to actually start incorporating these organs is I would focus on species. So a lot of people default to thinking they have to use the beef, but chicken hearts, for example, are very mild. They don't have a strong taste. They're a really good entry point because they will still be umami, which is that flavor which will support that change in your palate and get you to be more open to eating organ meats down the road. So any organ from the chicken is going to be milder than the cow. And secondly, we want to focus on organs that are more closer to muscle meat. So heart, tongue— those two are going to be a lot more muscle than they are kind of that different texture that some organs have. So that's where I would start, start there. Once again, you don't have to stop. Like, if I were then moving from the chicken hearts to—

it—

well, I should say this too, just to everyone a little bit more value here. With the chicken hearts, you don't— don't leave them whole. Like, chop them up, throw them in a sauce. No one will know they're there. They'll think they're mushrooms. So just help your psychology, like, break it up so it doesn't look like an organ, because psychologically, that's what we're kind of grossed out about. I think it makes us feel our, our own kind of mortality when we see organs, right? We think of our own internal body. So just Try to remove that stimulus. That's the power pluck because it doesn't look like an organ, right? Same thing with the tongue. Once you, once you cook it and it comes out of that skin, that, that, that kind of sandpapery skin, underneath is a really delicate stringy muscle and it's so delicious. So once you cook it, you won't think of a tongue. So just get it to that point, get over the hump. And what's kind of cool when you start to explore these off parts of the animal, or the offal as we would call it, they're cheaper than the muscle meat, which is kind of cool because if, you know, if everyone's been feeling that the kind of, you know, how expensive everything's getting, right? What's cool is that you could get the same 100% grass-fed cow that has the $24.99 ribeye, the tongue will be like $7.99. So you could really save money. And I'll just say one other tip towards easing organ meats in that a lot of people don't think about is what's really overwhelming about organ meat is when it's defrosted. When it's frozen, it's not that overwhelming. It just feels like a hunk of meat, right? So what we want to do is, is we want to keep it frozen. And one of the practices I suggest to people is that when you, when you have any ground meat, doesn't matter what species, it could be turkey, could be lamb, does not matter. And If you have a beef liver that's in your freezer, pull it out and just grate it into the ground meat and then put it right back in the freezer. 1 pound of ground meat, you could put in about— I would start with 1 tablespoon of grated liver and graduate up to 2 tablespoons immediately, um, eventually, but no rush. Just start with 1 tablespoon. The key is not to put too much liver in there or it will start to change the flavor and the texture But if you just do up, you know, 1 pound to 2 tablespoons total, you won't taste it, you won't notice it, and you'll start to get the benefits. And then your palate will start to open up eventually, and you'll just want other— to try other organs. You'll no longer be grossed out by them, and you'll just be open to it.

Yeah, I love the practical application of that, you know, just walking someone through like, how do you navigate this in day-to-day life in our kitchen? I think that's great. I've never ventured out into the organ meats myself, like I haven't done that. In, in the kitchen, right?

The joke is that whenever I talk to practitioners that know, you know, because you guys, you know, you both know about eating organ meats, and it's just the joke is like, so how long have those organs been in your freezer? You know, they're like, oh, a year, you know, because, you know, even the best of us, we're still intimidated. I mean, that's why I, that's why I know it seems like a shameless plug, but that's why I started Pluck, because I'm like, even me, I'm a chef, I know better, I do not cook organs separately. I just use Pluck because it's easier and it's delicious.

It goes back to the human nature Because for my money, I don't—

I think that we're constantly being sold bills of goods, you know, like, this is healthy. No, that's healthy. I mean, and all I do is my— in my brain, I just think about Suzanne Somers and the ThighMaster.

You remember that thing?

Oh yeah, everyone and their mother bought that. It was so popular. And where are they all now? No one is doing the ThighMaster. Not a single person on this planet is doing the ThighMaster. They're somehow in, in some landfill somewhere. And I just, I always think about that when I see a health trend because I'm like, if it's not something I can translate into a lifestyle, it's just money thrown down the drain, right?

So true.

That goes for the infrared saunas, that goes for the cold plunges. It's like, you have to be, you truly have to be like, am I going to use this enough that it will become lifestyle and not just something I do for a year or a month or whatever, right? So that's my gauge. That's truly my gauge. And Pluck is that. It is so easy, it's delicious. There's no reason not to use it.

I just want to say this real quickly because I want to go back to quality just real quick. And it's quality. You vet it, right? Yes.

There's no agents.

And grass finished, right? And it's New Zealand, right? Did I hear that?

That is true. New Zealand. Because because they, they have green grass year-round. These animals are regenerative. They're not always certified, but they— it's just because it's different, um, they have different certifications over there. But for the most part, these animals are as close to regenerative as you can get, which is just kind of healthier farm. Um, yeah, we definitely focus on quality because we know, we know that if we're going to provide this product, that we have to solve all, all of the points, right? It's got to delicious. It's got to be— require no cooking skills. It's got to be sourced properly, and that's the piece we're talking about now. And then it's just got— it's got to meet your biological and lifestyle needs. I mean, that's the power of what we're talking about, is like we're talking about these ancestral philosophies, these, these foods that are closest to what our ancestors ate. And but notice I'm not saying, well, go take off your t-shirt and go live in a cave and cook it over a fire. Like, I get it that we can't— it's not— we don't want to go backwards. We just want to— we just want to make sure we're getting this nutrition in this very stressful modern life, but in— that fits with our modern life, you know. And I just recognize that if I— that's why even like those ancestral blends where they have the organ meats already ground into the— to the ground meat, those are ideal too. The only issue I have with that is that we don't always eat ground meat. Eat, right? So I'm looking for something I can— like, here's a piece too, to why my— the dad in me came out with Plucked, and I talked about it earlier, is safe food. And you both are gonna— you know this better than anyone, because when someone comes to you and you give them an assessment, you tell them, this is how I need you to start eating. Well, first of all, they got to get it over it, the change, right? They got to be willing to change. But the other thing is, is that the foods that they've been eating they feel safe on them. Like, they feel comfort from them. And so when you remove that comfort too fast, it's like pulling the Band-Aid off too fast.

It will—

how fast you pull that off will determine whether they actually stick to the protocol or not. So if you try to just yank it, it won't last usually because they're— they're— the trauma that they have around why they need those comfort foods hasn't been addressed. The beautiful thing about Pluck and why I love it, particularly for parents with kids, is that you're not forcing anyone to change their safety foods. You're just adding it. Like, my kids are eating mac and cheese, I sprinkle it over the mac. I'm not telling them you can't eat mac and cheese because it's not healthy. I'm saying, here's your mac and cheese, we're just gonna sprinkle Pluck over it. Oh, it's pizza night because we didn't meal plan and we didn't, you know, we didn't cook from home. No problem, we're just gonna sprinkle the Pluck over the pizza, and I'm gonna feel a little bit better as a parent that I got organ meats in good.

You know what I mean?

Like, we're not, we're not trying to reinvent the wheel. We're just trying to increase the nutrient load of what you're already eating and hoping that through that palate change and through your body just— you just starting to feel better in your body— that you will eventually start to welcome more change. But you'll do it at the pace that you can do it and that your biology allows.

Yeah.

So you mentioned the formula earlier, and you mentioned salt being in the formula. You do have a plain version, does it?

Yeah, does it?

It does not have salt, correct? For people that are salt sensitive or really trying to modulate some of the salt intake.

Yeah, it's just the Orgamates, and we did that exactly for that reason because we recognize we can't make a seasoning for everybody. Like, there's always something that someone wants or something someone doesn't want. So I was like, look, I'll just give you the blend that I made. It's like I said, it's the 5 organs. And what's, what's so special about this blend— so when you get capsules, they're not, they're not mixing that for taste. They're just equal parts of the organs and they put it in the capsule. With me, I actually curated the taste of the blend, so I made sure that it was neutral as possible. So that's what people are always shocked about, is the Pure is like Oh, it's not as strong as I thought. I'm like, yeah, because I, I, as a chef, I, I, I nurtured it. And, um, what that means though is that that pure— what's cool about it is it can go sweet or savory. So you could add it to brownies, you could add it to your smoothie, you could put it in your savory soups or dishes. You could, you know, there's so much you can do with it. And even better is that 1 teaspoon equals 2 ounces of organ.

Wow.

So it's really no different than the capsules, but it's just not in a capsule. So I always tell people, like, start with half a teaspoon a day, you're done. I guarantee it's going to move your blood markers really quickly. I've seen it move it as fast as— well, I've seen people feel different within a few days of using it, but most people don't test their blood. Usually it's like a month is the soonest I hear people doing it. And so within that month though, absolutely their markers have changed. But my guess is that it changes within the first week or two.

So the other question I have is, we have patients that have had either severe leaky gut or environmental exposures where they have tremendous sensitivities and, and just exaggerated histamine reactions. Because it's a dried product, Do we— are we worried about histamine burden using something like PLOX? Should we be careful with that?

I know some people— I mean, what is— okay, so histamine typically is higher in cooked food, first of all, and, and of course aged meats.

That's right.

Right. So this is not aged, first of all. So it's raw, frozen, and then freeze-dried.

Okay.

And I— my assumption, because this is true in general with when you remove moisture from food, it it starts to slow down the aging process.

Okay.

Right. That's why freeze-dried or these kind of foods that have moisture that's removed, they're preserved longer. So I have to assume that that's affected as well. I do know some people that are very sensitive to histamines that are using the Pure Pluck, and they have not had any issues.

Okay, good to know.

So that's the most I can really say about it, though, because I think it's one of those things, just like anything, is you You just try a little bit, see if it works for you. And then what's nice is you're just microdosing, so it's never too overwhelming.

And the way it's— what you have available for people is to try in sample packs too, right?

You do.

So they don't have to buy— We have a sample pack. And here's something— I get so excited talking about this one because our mission is to help people, help you feel better in your body, everybody.. And I know that the way to do that is to get these nutrient-dense foods in you. So I'm not just about those 5 organs I mentioned. I want to get the whole animal. So, right, we just launched a couple of new products, and one of them is the brain. So we're actually helping people to get brain. Brain is something that used to be eaten all the time around the world. It, it was also, and still is to a degree, is eaten. Going with that like supports like concept. The brain has a lot of nutrients that support our own brain. And I have to wonder if, you know, I'm not saying it's going to solve dementia or Alzheimer's, but I have to wonder if it will help to offset because the level, the amount of people getting Alzheimer's and dementia is just, it's so high now. It's highest it's ever been. And, um, so I'm really excited to get brain because even our grand, you know, great-grandparents were eating brain, you know, with their eggs if they, they're from farmlands. That's how what they were And like I said, they didn't waste any part of the animal. So particularly if you were a farmer and you killed your own animals, you kept the brain because you could, you know, you weren't shooting the animal necessarily and fracturing the skull throughout the brain. So you could slaughter them and still use parts of the brain. We are sourcing it once again from New Zealand. They've never had mad cow disease. I know that's the one thing people get really nervous about., but it's a non-issue in New Zealand because when you treat animals the way they're supposed to be treated and you raise them properly, they don't have stuff like mad cow. It just doesn't happen. So, so that's one thing. And then we've put the brain— we, we sell it as pure, so just 100%. We also have it in our cinnamon. So some— now people are adding it to their coffee and they feel more grounded, more focused from it. That's the stuff I keep hearing from people. And then we also added some new flavors. So we have original, zesty garlic, Southwest, and then our new flavors for people that really like spicy, it's called habanero lime.

And I'm sure we'll be in touch too, is just kind of getting as clinicians that really work in the industry of testing and helping people identify things that are triggers for them. You brought up cinnamon and I have an actual reaction to cinnamon. I love cinnamon. I mean, that to me was like, wow, I would love to do that and I can't. But the other thing—

You get the pure then.

Yeah, right. As clinicians, we have access directly to you and to your company, and it allows us to ask questions specifically. And we really appreciate that as clinicians, is because there's not a whole lot of truth in labeling out there either. And that could be a whole nother segment for a whole nother time. So we really appreciate that you're very forthright about what's in there, where it's from, that you care about how it's sourced. And so thank you so much for your contributions to the industry of making food fun, making it easy, and making it nutritious. We do actually have an affiliate code for those of you listening to this podcast. You can also at checkout get 15% off of your Pluck. So by using the word synergy, S-Y-N-E-R-G-E-E, at checkout, as you, as you do check out. So James, we love— we've been so appreciative of the Um, I just wanted to— there's, there's one last question, and I think, um, Kelly and Synergy style, right, um, we always have to close with an okay, so, so if you had to pick one thing in your health routine that you believe has had the greatest impact for you personally, what would it be?

I think most people are always, you know, they're usually going to answer from one of the pillars, right? So the stress, the food you eat, movement, or sleep. So, so sleep would normally be the, the main pillar for me that dictates everything else. Because if I don't get good sleep, then I make poor food choices, I don't work out, yada yada, right? So that would be the easy answer. The more challenging answer that I think will give them more, more value is the biggest mover as of late is what I touched on during the call, which is I'm now looking inward for the answers. I'm really like, I'm more and more what I'm trying to do as I go through my day or even I'm making food choices is I'm A, trying to not multitask. I'm trying to not do, I'm trying to just be mindful, be present, right? And then if I notice like my body hesitating or feeling like, oh God, I gotta eat this. So whether it's craving something or it's hesitating to eat something, before I even do it, I just take a moment I take a breath and I just kind of notice where am I holding tension in my body, what's going on? And I just ask questions, but I'm literally looking more inward and I'm asking questions and I'm coming at my health with more curiosity. And that has been absolutely game-changing.

And it sounds like with humility and grace too.

Really?

Yeah.

That I don't have all the answers. I don't, you know, yes, I've been doing this for 22 years and I have observations, but I'm very open to the fact that that what might work for me may not work for you and that you have to ask your own questions. I do know though that there are a handful of non-negotiables that I just, I hands down believe now and no one can sway me. And that is because I started out with this belief and it has never changed. And that is that real food is always first choice. I'm not telling you what diet to follow. I'm just saying eat real food.

Food. Yes.

And once again, that is a food that is an ingredient versus has ingredients. Real food wins every time. So that's, that's all I would say that, because I'm not in the business of necessarily telling people they gotta follow a specific diet, because I really do think actually it's that we need the dignity of our process, whatever that may be. And that, you know, just to give an example, like, I could be in a room with practitioners that are all sharing, you know, specific ways of eating, uh, and most of them would be animal-based, right? And I could ask them, so any of you in this room ever been vegan? And no joke, like, the majority of the room will raise their hand. So it tells you that everyone came from something, and they had to— it's their process and their journey that led them to now what, what they prof— you know, process, uh, what they share with their clients. They, they've gone through their own health journey, and they had to have the dignity of that, and that's what took them to being the type of practitioner they are now. So I just, I believe we all need that process to come to our own conclusions.

So good. Thank you so much for being here, James. I know our listeners are just eating this up, literally, and I look forward to talking to you soon. Absolutely.

Thanks so much. The Synergy Podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. Including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions.