5. Marla Bilonick - CEO and President of NALCAB

Foreign.

Welcome to the Wealth Gap warriors podcast where we dive deep into the pressing issue of wealth inequality in communities of color, cultural money beliefs and personal finance. Some of our families are struggling. Even people are actually homeless. Join us as we interview inspiring individuals and organizations across the United States who are dedicated to eradicating this disparity through their creative solutions and innovative approaches.

Together, let's explore how we can build a more equitable society for all. Here's your host, Luis Barajas. Let's get into it.

Welcome everybody. And today we have actually, I think that if you actually look up Wealth Gap Warrior in the dictionary. There is no Wealth Gap Warrior in the dictionary. But if you were to look it up, you would see a Marla Balonic's face there because she actually is everything that a wealth gap where you're doing across the country. Let me tell you a little bit about her and then we'll introduce her. So Marla is currently nalcat, which is the national association of Community Asset Builders President and CEO. She's also a seasoned veteran in the arena of economic and community development with over 20 years of expertise in small business development, community based financial services, and international aid with an emphasis in Latin America and the US Latino population. President Joe Biden appointed Marla to lead the U.S. department of Treasury CDFI Fund Community Development Advisory Board. She's the first Latina and only the second female to hold this position in its 27 year history. She's also a member of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Advisory Committee on Economic Inclusion. And in this capacity, she advises the agency on initiatives to expand access to banking services for underserved populations. And prior to joining nalcap, she served as the Executive Director of the Latino Economic Development center in Washington, D.C. leading regional efforts to drive the economic and social advancement of low to moderate to income Latinos by equipping them with the skills and tools to achieve financial independence. That's a mouthful. That's a lot. And Marla, thank you so much for being on our show today. I really appreciate you and I appreciate I saw you at the, at the CFP Diversity Summit a couple of months ago and you're just doing phenomenal work. And so what I would love to start with is we don't want to get to know what exactly some of the work that you're doing right now. What we want to know is what, what, I mean, if you can talk to us about growing up as a child through your parents, through your family, what led you to this type of work and what keeps you in this.

Type of work, Absolutely. So.

You know, I was born in Panama, so I was not born in the US I came here as a small child, which is why I have, I think, no accent or no discernible accent, but, you know, sort of came here new to the US and grew up in a family that was financially comfortable until my parents lit up. And so from there we lived a very financially precarious lifestyle, you know, being raised by a single mom who was incredible and moved mountains and figured out ways to cover everything and make everything work, you know, on a daily basis. But I think that experience really showed me firsthand kind of the differences between what financial stability can bring and what financial instability, you know, the challenges that that brings. And so I, I feel like.

My experience maybe gave me kind of a unique perspective of both sides, you know, of the fence, like, you know, and, and understanding kind of the agency and choices and ability to kind of drive your own life that financial, financial stability, you know, and even thriving financially can, can give you. And so that is one of my drivers. Then, you know, later on, as I went to school and started working in this field 25 years ago.

You know, I saw even more than my own personal experience sort of how the financial, traditional financial system has failed our communities and, and really how it has worked, you know, maybe on autopilot, but to keep our community down. And so I felt really inspired by the opportunity to do something about that, and that's really what's driven me to have a career.

That's amazing. Now I'd like to still go back.

Yeah.

Is there a share, can you share a story of growing up that maybe something that happened with your mom or your map gave you some epiphanies? You know, I, I, I'll share with you that just one quick story that I think I've ever told. I remember when we were kids, my, my parents are immigrant from Mexico, right. Didn't have a lot of money and my dad used to collect back then what are called mercury dimes, and we didn't have any money. I think one day the ice cream truck passed by the house and we never got ice cream because my dad parents didn't have money and my dad felt really bad and I remember him going to his coin collection and getting mercury dimes to buy us ice cream. And it never had ever bought us ice cream. But I know that it must have hurt my dad a lot because it wasn't a lot. Right. Yeah, we would, we would save money in 5 gallon sparkling water bottles and you Know, we would save panties in there. And yeah, all that stuff is what caused me to stay in. But were there any personal stories, any from family stories that kind of. You still go. Can go back to and, and think about those stories that still drive you today?

Yeah, I mean.

I think one thing. So I was the oldest, am the oldest in my family. And so, you know, living in a single parent household, I kind of by default was the second adult in the household. You know, I've worked since I was 14 years old. I've done every possible job from pharmacy to retail to, you know, all of that. But I think, you know, rather than like one specific instance, I think having been the oldest, I was privy to a lot of more information than maybe my siblings had. You know, I can give one example. I remember going with my mom to the ATM and, you know, the, the purpose was to go get a pizza for dinner and there wasn't enough there, you know, and so.

You know, and I'm, I'm sure we figured something else out, obviously, you know, but having kind of that level of intimacy with the, the real situation was terrifying, of course, but it also was the reality. And so, you know, I, I think that that is maybe like a fear that I carry with myself to, you know.

Raising my own family. You know, it's just something that stays with you. And at the same time, it makes me feel like I can really understand the community that we serve a lot better because I've personally been there, you know, so if there, there's always silver linings. But I really do feel like I was very, very aware of like, what, you know, what was possible, what was not possible, what I could ask for, what I couldn't ask for, what I'd have to figure out an alternative to for myself, you know, through my various jobs or what have you. You know, if there was like a dance coming up at school, you know, it wasn't an expectation that I would get a brand new dress, you know, for that. So that kind of stuff, you know, I mean, it just plays out in so many ways in our childhoods, I'm sure.

So did you have access to any, any mentors, like in, you know, junior high, high school, anybody that kind of pushed you to continue going into school? Because again, as Latinos, you know, our parents don't know about the educational school system here in the United States. Now they all want us to go to college, but at the end of the day, they don't have the background, they don't have the education of how to get us there. And usually, you know, I have found that at least with people in communities of color who have reached certain levels, they've always had some champion, whether it was in junior high, high school. Did you have anybody like that?

You know, it's funny because I just was talking about this and, and for me it isn't necessarily one person, but my group of friends from growing up, of my group of girlfriends that I've had literally since elementary school, some since nursery school, you know, that have we followed each other for our whole lives.

That has been my mentor because we have really had like, if there's such thing as positive peer pressure, we've exerted that on one another. You know, these are all now very driven, successful, you know, and successful in every way, you know, not even just a career, but.

Right.

Raising families, relationships, all of that. And, and so kind of having that set of examples around all the time, that's really what I feel like helped me get there, you know. And my mom, I will say, is like just incredible and absolutely has inspired me and helped me apply for school and everything. And you know, one of the, speaking of silver linings, one of the silver linings, you know, now that I have kids in college, one of the silver linings was that we were so broke that I applied for incredible and received incredible financial aid. So, you know, I, I was able to go to college, you know, on, on the government's dime and I, you know, my student loan debt was really low and you know, so I don't know that I would have planned it that way, but it ended up working out, you know, well, that I was able to, to go at all, first of all. And second of all, that, that I was able to get government grants to really put me through for the most part. And then of course worked and.

That'S fantastic. So tell us a little bit about your organization and the unique ways that you're attacking the wealth gap in America.

Of course. So now cap, as you mentioned, is the national association for Latino Community Asset Builders. We are a network of over 200 nonprofits in the economic development space that are all Latino led and or Latino serving. Our members are located throughout the United States. I often like to say they're where, you know, Latinos are and where, you might not know that Latinos are. So, you know, you've got your Miamis, your Los Angeles, but you've also got Yakima, Washington, Hawaii. We've got members in Alaska, you know, so it's really running the gamut there. And another thing of note is that we comprise the largest group of Latino led CDFIs.

Which are community development financial institutions certified by the Department of Treasury. And so that's another kind of distinction that we have also kind of, when thinking of the realm of Latino organizations, we are narrowly focused on economic development. So there are so many incredible, wonderful Latino organizations that have incredible areas of focus. But when it comes to nalcap, we're just only talking about, you know, pushing capital into communities and into Latino communities across the U.S. okay, so.

So I want to learn a little bit more about Now CAB then.

Yeah.

So under the umbrella of nalca, right, you have all these nonprofits that are very different organizations. The purpose of NALCAB is to connect all these organizations to provide more basically to, for the government to see it as a one big network. So there's more funding for them or.

What'S, what's the purpose of NOW cap?

Absolutely. So I'm glad that you asked. So NOW CAP provides four core services to our members. So the first is capital. So we are a grant making institution. So we, you know, provide grants to our members, whether it be around a technical area or a region. We have competitions throughout the year. We're also a CDFI ourselves. So we lend our members. We lend for two purposes. One is to capitalize small business loan funds that our members then on lend their communities. The other is to participate in affordable housing development projects. So if one of our members is taking on a big development that they're going to create, you know, X number of units of affordable housing, we will come in as part of that project finance. So part of the capital stack. So those are kind of the two things that we lend for. But as I mentioned before, we do grant making. The second way that we work with our members is by providing capacity building. So we've got all kinds of trainings, webinars, one on one, technical assistance that we provide to our members, from anything from overall nonprofit management to again like very technical to their area of economic development. We also provide collective voice, which is frankly just advocacy. So we have two offices, one in Washington D.C. which is where I sit, and then another in San Antonio, Texas. And our D.C. office contains our policy team. We're doing a ton of advocacy at the federal level, both to support policies and people that advance the work of our members, as well as to make sure that initiatives that are going to undermine the work of our members don't make it through. And then last, the fourth way that we work with our members is by providing comunidad so we bring our members together. We have a large annual conference. We have other convenings kind of at the city and regional level. And then we also have leadership trainings for cohorts of CEOs and cohorts of emerging leaders to kind of build a bench of Latino leadership with.

Yeah, that's phenomenal. Just a quick story or share my story is that we're doing a television show for PBS called Opportunity Knocks. And. And it's. We've already shot the first season. It's already came out on pbs. We're shooting the second season. But really, the show is about promoting. We're working with. It's three counselors, coaches, life coaches, me, Gene Chasky, Patrice Washington. And we work with six families. We each have two families I will work with this year in Seattle and El Paso, Texas. What we're doing Is we're promoting CDFIs.

Oh, that's fantastic.

Yeah, we're actually promoting CDFIs because a lot of people who really need a lot of help are. Aren't aware that CDFIs, which are basically local credit unions, some banks, that there's support there in case they need help with credit building, refinancing, where they can't get it, where it's a little more complicated with a lot of help. So the CDFIs are just a phenomenal thing that I actually just learned about in, like, the last couple of years.

Yeah. You know, well, first of all, thank you for doing that, because I think one of the biggest challenges to the industry is that Nobody knows about CDFIs, much less the people that need to know about CDFIs. So, you know, this is something that we come up against all the time because the individuals and groups doing the work don't necessarily have unlimited marketing budgets. And in fact, most of our funders don't really fund that. So it's really coming from reserves or extra, you know, unrestricted funding that you have. So, you know, we're out there doing the work. We're not necessarily able to talk about the work as much. And so I really applaud you and thank you for going out there and kind of pounding the pavement on our behalf, because you're absolutely right. The people who need CDFIs don't always know that there are CDFIs out there ready to.

Yeah, yeah. And as you, you know, as well that you and I go work, speak a lot of conferences.

Yeah.

And most of the time, we're preaching to the choir. We don't need to preach to them. Right. We don't need the information of the people that aren't listening or aren't watching the television show that really need that help.

Next question is, through all the years, not just through nail cap, through all the years that you've worked in organizations helping overcome poverty or lessen the wealth gap, are there any epiphanies or learning lessons that you learned from the experiences of working with people in poverty or in organizations, um, you know, fighting poverty? Let me give you an example of how I look at stuff. You know, when, when.

I was working at a big firm helping millionaires and multimillionaires, I go back to the balist l a to go help the community. Right. I get a lot of write up and I know that my entire community back in Boyle Heights is a lot of help. And then I realized that not all the people who really needed help wanted the help or were ready for help. That was one of my opinions.

Right.

But I wasn't at a big organizational level. It was just me and trying to do financial planning in the, in the Latino community. But there's a lot of lessons where you come in with, with such, you know, we have such idealism, such hope, and then you get into the reality of what it's like that sometimes you're fighting people in your own organization just to help other people. So, yeah, I'd love for you to share some, some epiphanies.

Yeah. So. So I think one epiphany, and I actually have to credit my colleague Holly Frindell here from NALCAP for this one, because we were in a meeting and we were talking about a program that we have actually to help members become CDFIs. And if you are aware of the process, you know, there's an extensive application. I personally don't know of any group, NALCAB included, that has ever obtained certification without the support of a consultant. And so what our project really focuses around is readying our members for that application, including providing them with consultants that we subsidize for them to write the application and submit all the materials correctly. And we were talking about this, and we were talking about how this is really operating within the existing system. So what we're doing is we're really helping our members to play the game as it stands right now. There's a larger, longer term end game, which is to change the game itself, you know, and what does that look like? And so I think really the epiphany is how do you feel? How do you get yourself, if you're someone working in this field, to feel satisfied with kind of these shorter term gains while still focusing on that North Star that is that bigger, you know, like cataclysmic transformational change of a system. So you know, we were even saying like could now have create a certification, you know, and what would that look like and how would it, you know.

Cater to our members strengths and what they bring to the table and just kind of forget about Treasury. And again, I'm saying that as me not in my official, you know, like sort of, you know, there, there is a lot of creative opportunity for this like big kind of explosive work. At the same time there's a lot of validity in the day to day kind of pushing through drips and drops, you know, that, that all ultimately make a difference. Both are equally, I think impactful and important, but you know, kind of finding a way to straddle the kind of smaller wins while aiming for kind of a giant win as the North Star. So I don't know that that's necessarily an epiphany, but it was kind of like a different way of thinking about the work that helps to motivate me actually.

Yeah. So, you know, you have access to some really high profile people working in some of these nonprofits and working.

In the organizations that you've worked with. Besides what you just talked about, is there anything that you still struggle with or tolerate.

In the environment that you're in? That, that still kind of puts a, another wall between helping, I mean literally the people in need. Right. Because some of these organizations are set up and there's a lot of funding for it, but sometimes it just doesn't get to the people in need. It kind of gets stuck there. So are there things that you struggle with or she'll tolerate or wish that, you know, besides what you just talked about?

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I think the example that I gave about, you know, treasury, that, that is mirrored in almost every federal agency that touches economic development work. So I often find that there's a real disconnect with these opportunities and the very communities that they were designed to serve. So my feeling is, you know, the smaller organizations that may not be, you know, these superstar organizations that everyone knows often are the most proximate and arguably the best equipped to serve their specific community. Yeah, there's a huge valley between, you know, what they're doing and knowing about federal opportunities, knowing how to apply once they get the opportunity, knowing how to comply with the requirements. And then there's another piece that I don't think people talk about that much which is that if you take on one of these big projects, you don't get paid right away. So there's also like a financial, you have to sort of be financially prepared. And it's interesting because so much of this mirrors what's going on at the individual level, at the family level. It's happening with our, you know, organizations that are led by people of color, organizations that are, you know, under resourced, they're equally challenged. You know, it's like these, it's like all of these parallels are happening at once. So that's, that's one thing that, that frustrates me and that we're working to change. And I will say too, just the general philanthropic community, you know, and I'll say like we, we have benefited from this. The organization that I led prior also benefited from this is like once you are established and have a proven track record, you're really in the door. And I think there's a big gap again between, you know, who has those relationships, who, you know, are the darlings of the moment and that sort of thing. And so, you know, I feel very privileged to be in a position now where I can kind of bridge some of those disconnects. We just had our conference in October in Los Angeles and we have for the second year done a session called a funder matchmaking. And it's literally just like a speed dating for funders and organizations. And we have them sit across from the table from each other and just exchange, you know, a quick conversation. And it's really not like to do a full on pitch, but it's just to have that relationship. I mean, you and I know these relationships are the backbone of, of everything, you know, and, and, and oftentimes, whether it be because of geographic location or lack of funding or lack of opportunity, those relationships just aren't there. And so I'm hopeful that over time we'll be able to show that from those intros that actual funding came to be. And so that's, that's kind of exciting. But I just feel like there's a real opportunity for.

You know, making these bridges and these contacts that, that may not exist otherwise.

Great. I think my, my next question is now if I, if you had a magic wand, right, if, or if I magic wand and I gave you permission to do anything that you wanted to do and you could change.

Anything within the structure of these big nonprofits or dealing with government or dealing with politics, what would you change? What, what, what, what, what could make things better? And again, we're talking In a idealistic kind of way, in a, in a wishful way. It's not something that we know is going to happen. But if you had a magic wand and you could change anything for organizations or people in the organizations to work together.

What would you wish for?

You know, I think there's a real opportunity and it's not that it doesn't exist now. I see it here and there and I'm always really excited to see it, but I think there's a real opportunity to do more of community driven work. So, you know, there again, this kind of ties back to philanthropy, but a lot of the people who have the dollars who are funding these organizations sometimes not always have, you know, pretty.

Specific ways that they want these dollars to be spent. And it's not necessarily being driven by, you know, the community themselves saying, this is what we need, this is what we want. And so, and even having worked in a community based organization, we didn't really have a lot of space for that feedback loop. You know, we kind of had our core products and services, but it wasn't like we had, you know, a convening every year where we said, hey, tell us what's working, tell us what's not working, tell us what you need more of, tell us what you want us to cut back on. I just feel like there's a void there in terms of connecting the dots of like, you know, I mean, because if you think about it, really, the core work in economic development, there haven't been big changes in kind of the services that are being provided. And I think we're missing a piece, you know, where we really would benefit from, not to mention the actual customers of our work would benefit from, you know, having a higher engagement in terms of designing what's actually being put out. And you know, from my point of view, I'm trying to do, you know, have like a real New year's resolution for 2024 to as much as possible have conversations with our member organizations, leadership and staff to just say, what can outcap do to help you? Like, is what we're doing enough? Is it right, is it wrong? Like, you know, they're all products and services like out in the market need to answer to their customers. But our kind of structure is different because we're, we have two sets of, of people that we answer to. We answer to our funders and our investors and we answer to our, you know, end beneficiaries. And, and it's not, you know, the, the two needs don't always overlap. And so I think there's something there where we could really, you know, and I have seen great examples, like I'll give an example right here in, in Washington D.C. the 11th Street Bridge park, which is Washington's answer to the High Line in New York, is, is being developed. It's a new sort of above ground green space and it's probably the best example right now of community engagement, community input, community design.

So if you want me to introduce to the person who's running that for your next podcast. But I just feel like there's, there's really space for us to engage with customers more in terms of delivering the services.

So then if you can, if we can right now, just kind of focus on the end user. Right. The client, the customer who is in poverty, who these organizations are helping.

What'S working and what's not working for them, what is being offered to them. That we've just been used doing the same thing over and over again, but really hasn't made a difference because as we know, the wealth gap keeps widening in America. Right. It keeps.

And, and again we're just, we're not talking about the organizations, we're not talking about funding. We're talking about the end user. If, when you, when, if, if you can put yourself in your mom's shoes.

Yeah.

Right. And if she were, if she were able to get help from one of these organizations when she really needed the help, what would have really helped her now? And, and what's, what's, what, what's working or what needs to change?

Yeah. Well, you know, to answer the question of what would have helped her and I, and I think, you know, this is an area that.

Really deserves further exploration which is just direct cash transfers. You know, people need money. They don't necessarily need debt, they don't necessarily need advice. I really think, you know, and I think there is space for debt and advice. And again, this is the field that I've committed 25 years of my life.

Yeah.

Believe in it. But I think where it comes to just, you know, you saw, with stimulus like that propelled people into a totally different stratosphere and additional unintended. Unintended but positive consequences that were in the highest, you know, banked that our country has ever been because you had to have a bank account to get your check. So you know, there, I just feel like there's a lot of space. We, it kind of goes back to what I was saying before. Like we assume that we know best but you know, if you had to ask anyone really what they would need, you know, it. First of all, there's a paternalistic assumption that is completely off base that people know how to spend their money correctly, that they're gonna go, I don't know, buy a pair of sneakers or something like that instead of buying groceries. I really think that's the exception and not the rule. And I think when people get, you know, whether it's debt or, or just cash, when people get an infusion of, of money, it completely changes their lives. And, and you know, the panel that, that you heard me speak on a couple of weeks ago, we had a debate, you know, on stage about debt and about, you know, is putting people further into debt really helpful or not? And I can see both sides of the equation, but I feel like there's just something more to explore there. And I don't know that it's the silver bullet, but I think we could do more in terms of just giving people money to plug holes, to do whatever they need to do to survive and then to thrive.

Yeah, you know, I agree with you 1,000%. I, I, I've been working with people in poverty for the longest time and every single book that you read or every single event that you go to, there's a whole workshop on budgeting. And it's all I ever see is, you know, create a budget and see how much more you can cut from what you already don't even have, literally. And, and, and so the thing is that, and not only that, and then the debt. Right. Those two. Right. And they think that's these, I mean, I've spent my whole, the last 30 years working with a lot of people in these communities, helping them develop their unique abilities, help them become more valuable, help them earn more money. Because I think getting more money is what's going to change them. It's going to, it's going to change their, their financial, what I call financial dignity. Right. Just want, the clients that I work with don't want a Rolls Royce, don't want a Mercedes Benz. They would just want a car that's not going to break down on them.

Yeah.

You know, they want to, they want a stable car. They, they all have new, what I call new used cars, but you know, they order a new used car, not a 2010, 15 year old car, but a two year old.

Yeah.

You know, in the communities that I grew up in, like Boyle Heights, when somebody passes away to this day, I saw it the other day, you know, they have go, now they have GoFundMe pages. Back then there were car washes they sold T shirts for the family to try to raise money to bury the, the, the debt, their own family members, and it still continues today. And I think that the paradigm on which we're thinking about, well, put them on a budget. The poor people need to be put on a budget because they're just overspending. What else can you cut? I think that needs to be changed. And I don't think that's anything that's any good anymore. But that's all I see at this point. I continue to see a lot of these workshops.

Yeah. One other thing actually that just peaked my, my memory when, when you were talking is that actually something that we talked about on that panel again was.

Another under exploited area is helping community members to invest the money that they do have or giving people money to invest so that there's a lower risk threshold because the whole investment space is really underutilized. And I think it's an avenue to wealth that our communities, you know, we're so focused on meeting basic needs that we're not thinking, you know, I'm going to take $500 and put it here where it may evaporate or it may double or it may triple. You know, so maybe there's some opportunity for programming whether, you know, if you don't want to do direct cash transfer, it could be something around.

You know, giving people funds that they could then invest without it being on them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My, my personal belief in everything I've ever written about has been about changing the mindset of how you take money and how do you invest it. Because the problem is that we lack the education and we lack the experience. Right. And so the problem has been that even investing in the stock market or investing in their 401ks or the retirement plans, if they're in equity accounts, the money's going up and down, up and down. And the very time it goes down, they get scared and pull the money out. They do what they're supposed to do because they don't have the, they don't have the experience of dealing with volatility. Right. Which is different level of risk than day trading that people were doing with Robinhood, people who were getting money. So I, I also. Our firm also prepares taxes. And so we saw these young kids who had borrowed five, $10,000 or been given money during the, the COVID crisis, Robin Hood, and lost all of it and also put it on margin and lost more than that, what they had. And it was just a lack of education, but more a lack of experience. Right there, anything. And nobody's there to really walk them through and educate them. So this whole concept of fear and greed really gets involved when you don't have that experience. And it just exacerbates that, that situation.

So.

You. The purpose of this podcast is also that I'm trying to inspire a lot of young Latino and black professionals to continue the fight beyond when we retire and continue, because this fight's going to go for a long time and try to lessen that wealth gap. And so for a lot of young, especially right now, young Latinas who are listening to us, who are watching this on YouTube or listening to this on the podcast.

You'Re a person that really is an inspiration, an inspiration to me, an inspiration to a lot of people. And I would love for you to maybe say, you know, if somebody starting in this profession, knowing now what, you know, after years experience, if you had to do things any, any a little differently, what, what would you have done differently? I mean, you've gotten, obviously every decision you've made has been a, whether it's been a wrong decision, a right decision to get to where you are right now. Right. We've all done the same, we've all done stupid things. And then it's like it ended up being, you know, a good decision, but we never knew at the time why. But if you can go back and share to young people who are, who are in college right now and really want to do all that social work and have the heart work that you're doing, what, what, what advice can you give them and what learning lessons that you've had that you said, you know, I wouldn't have done this, I wouldn't have done it this. So let's see if you can share something.

So, you know, it's interesting because.

You know, most of the organizations where I've worked and where I currently am, you know, are multigenerational organizations. And I think the current generation has really gotten this right. So I don't know that they need my advice maybe as much as I needed my advice back then.

But what is that? What, what, what, what?

So what I would say is, you know, this work is so personal and it's really like if it's something that excites you and lights you up, it's really easy to get completely and totally immersed in the work and like just kind of let everything to the wayside. You know, I think the current generation of workers, like, or the coming up generation of workers are much more aware of rest and self care. And I'M not talking about getting a manicure. I'm talking about like attending to your mental health or your relationships or, you know, and all of that. And, and I really feel like.

I didn't do that. I, you know, could be in better physical shape, I could probably be in better mental shape. I, you know, I, my relationships have been, you know, tested by, by my work, you know, and my, you know, really my jobs have been like a fourth, I have three kids, so they've been like a fourth child and maybe even more sometimes. And so I think really just making sure that you're paying attention to everything because this work is very consuming.

I don't think to do it well you have to give up everything else. But I think it's easy for other things to kind of fall apart and so to just be really aware of that. I don't know if that's motivational for people to get into this field, but.

That is truly, yeah, that note. But you know what, I admire the honesty because I will share with you. The same things happened to me. Right. It consumed me. I was working with really super wealthy people left to go back to a community. I mean, I immersed myself in the community and I ended up hardly making any money and caused a divorce in my life, which, which then causes issues with the kids, causes issue with the ex. And it becomes, because, because you're consumed by the idealism of really trying to solve a very big problem in America. Right. And no, I, I, I appreciate your honesty. I think that is that very inspiring.

Yeah. I think also when you're in the community, I'm, I'm one step removed now that I'm in alcab. You know, I used to be in the actual community and it's different when you're, I mean, people's lives are at stake. Literally, you know, their, their financial livelihood is at stakeholders from the work that you're doing. And so it's a lot of pressure. It's also unbelievably rewarding. But it's, you know, it's, it, it's just easy to sort of be 1000% in.

Because it's such high stakes work.

So you talked about the work being unbelievably rewarding. Can you just share a story of, you know, a success story, something that brings you currently a lot of joy, you know, something that's happened recently or, you know, or anybody.

Yeah, I'll just say, well, you know, on the personal side, my oldest son started going to college last year and that's just like unbelievably cool and amazing to see. And he's actually done some work with CDFIs already and, like, as part of a club at his school. He goes to University of Michigan. So, like, he's part of a club around.

They actually do impact investing to small businesses in Detroit. So I'm like, even though he doesn't want to do what I do, I. I see him continually falling into it. So that's very inspirational and exciting. But I think for now, Cab, I wouldn't necessarily point to one story, but what I will say is I worked with small businesses and entrepreneurs my whole career until now, Cap. And now I'm, as I said, one step removed. I'm working with organizations. And I feel like my firsthand experience working in and running a nonprofit organization, to me, I think is like, my most valuable thing that I bring to this job, because it's really, you know, I have leaders. I had one. One leader, you know, call me up just last week, you know, dealing with a challenge, you know, something. Something having to do with their budget and, you know, sort of how to work around, you know, some. Some challenging, unexpected expenses. And, you know, it just feels great to be able to help. I know now, Cap was a huge support to me when I was in their shoes, you know, the shoes of someone running a organization. And so it's really rewarding for me, whether it's a conversation, whether it's closing a loan with a, you know, one of our member organizations. You know, all of those things are so meaningful to me because I know exactly what it means to the person on the receiving end. So.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, we're. We're almost, you know, done with the hour of the podcast, but I want you to. With us, if you can, to the people that are listening to us, is that if you can share with us a book or documentary or source that helped you along the journey to helping you eradicate poverty in your organization.

Yeah, so I was thinking about this in advance, and so the resource that I would say, and this is actually one that anyone can tap into, when I was kind of just starting out as the CEO of my previous organization, I was part of a fellowship cohort at the Aspen Institute. And it's a fellowship that no longer exists. It was called Emerging Leaders in Micro Business. And.

The group of people that was in that cohort, it's kind of similar to what I was saying about my group of friends growing up. Like, this group of people has become kind of an. A personal board of directors. You know, we're, we're all over the country, we're now, now even like in totally different positions, but still all working in the same field. You know, some people are now on the philanthropic side, some people are, you know, started brand new organizations, some people joined, you know, something different, some people stayed where they were, you know, but, but these are people that I would not hesitate to pick up the phone whenever I'm having a challenge, whenever, you know, and it's, it's an unbiased group because it's not really competitors. You know, these are just people who have a lot of similar experiences but aren't necessarily someone to whom I couldn't divulge like my deepest fear about work. You know, I think as a CEO there are a lot of things that you worry about that you can't necessarily tell your team, even your most immediate team, because you don't want them to worry.

And so it's really helpful whether it's one person or a group of people that you can kind of just repeatedly go to. To me that's been the most valuable resource is just kind of trusted advisors, colleagues slash friends who are there to kind of bounce ideas off of in a totally safe space. Non judgmental space.

Yeah, actually people don't understand if they haven't been at the very top of their, a CEO of an organization. They realize that there's a lot of stuff that goes on in organization. They, whether you're feeling tired, exhausted, upset, whatever, that you really can't even mention down to the next person below because it kind of upsets the culture or what's going on. But you kind of have to, you have to have people that you can talk to that are, that are confidants as well. Right.

And it goes to the prior point around self care. It's like that has to go, that emotion has to go somewhere and hopefully it's not going inward. So it's helpful to have people that you can, you know, this out there with, you know, just kind of get it out and then move on.

Great. Um, you know, I was going to ask you what person in your life has influenced you, inspired you the most? But I think you've mentioned your mom several times already.

Yeah, I would say my mom, but I would also say my dad. My dad passed away in 2020 and he.

We'Re very similar and he, he is kind of professionally someone that I really look up to how he kind of operated in the world. He.

Is the type of person that would talk to anyone and Everyone, you know, whether it's the receptionist, all the way to the CEO, all the way to the janitor, all the way to whoever, you know, just a really kind of engaging person. And so I. I saw that as a very positive trait that I like to emulate. So I. I sort of have him on my shoulder a lot, too.

That's fantastic.

Yeah.

So, you know, if after this, I know somebody's going to run online and look you up on LinkedIn and. And if they actually see everything, we're done. Right. I'm thinking here, one of the questions I want to ask you is that what else do you have that you haven't achieved that you want to achieve? It seems like you've pretty much, outside of becoming President of the United States.

Being the White House or having, you know, at all.

The work that you do.

Is so admirable because I know the politics of it. I know.

How hard it is to work with CEOs or other organizational leaders because there's a lot of ego, especially, even. Even in the. Even in the nonprofit world. Right. And it's. And being a Latina.

Is especially hard because there's a. There's a lot, you know, there's. There's a lot of sexism as well. Even within our own community. Right. Even within our community. Men. Because, you know, my wife is part owner of our business management firm, and she constantly, you know, she comes to me and just lets me have it about some Latino who just treated her a certain way, whatever. But. So I really admire you, by the way, and. But what else do you have to achieve? What. What do you want to achieve? What's next for you?

Yeah. So I don't know if this is immediately next, but I. I do. I would love to be on a corporate board. I have provided, you know, free advisory services to, you know, corporations, you know, through my roles. But.

Through those experiences, I've been privy to, you know, presentations about representation, you know, both of ethnic and racial minorities within the staff of these corporations, within the leadership of these organizations, and then within the boards of these corporations. And it is so dismal also, as far as women are concerned, not just, you know, and, and so I would love to bring my point of view to some of those conversations. You know, I've. I've brought them when I've been invited, but I would love to sort of more consistently be able to share that point of view. I think.

We'Re in a strange time period because there was a big push for DEI after George Floyd and now reverse Affirmative action. It's actually kind of feels like maybe it's either going away, which could be a best case scenario, or going in the opposite direction, which would be the worst case scenario. And so I want to keep people's feet to the fire. I want people to, you know, really hold to the commitments that they made, you know, and I've been part of uncomfortable conversations, you know, where, you know, I had a corporation actually, and they will remain unnamed. I had a corporation say, you know, our board is, I don't know, I'll throw out a number, 13%.

You know, representative of an ethnic or racial minority. And it used to be 20%, but, you know, the one guy took a different job or, you know, so it's like these percentages are really like one person, you know, it's like, oh, wow, you know, you had such a high percentage of representation. No, that's actually just one token person that you're, you know, so I really.

I want people to sort of feel that this is more about just putting someone on a board or putting someone in a position, you know, in, in your organization. It's, it's really about having kind of a broader and committed view to diversity and to really having like all voices represented. And I actually think it's, if they want to take it from this point of view, it's better for their bottom line to have many perspectives on their board of directors. So if anyone's out there listening, I'm available.

That. Well, I mean, I can see it happening, right? It's just, it's not a matter of if, it's just a matter of when it's going to happen. You're certainly in a position of privilege. You have.

Are doing such great work. You're being recognized everywhere. I, you know, like I said, I think we're gonna let the world know about this podcast and everybody out there. So some big corporate board app, if you're listening. Exactly right. That's where she wants to be.

Yeah.

And then we'll leave today just by sharing, you know, how do we find out more about how if we're listening, we want to help or we want to go work for an lcab or we want to be part of this, you know, work that you're doing or how to get a hold of you. Let, let. How do we get ahold of you.

So you can look me up on LinkedIn? I, I actually am frequently on LinkedIn, so if you sent me a message, I would see it and I would respond. I don't respond to people trying to sell me random services that I don't need. But I do respond to people, and so that's one way to find me personally. But for now, Cap, we're@www.nowcap.org so n a l c a b.org and that's really where you can find out everything that's going on with NalCab. I also have the dates of our 2024 conference, which is going to be September 4th through the 6th, 2024 in Washington, D.C. nice.

Beautiful. I'm going to see if I can try to go to. I'd love to see. National Board. All right, Very good. Marla. I want to appreciate your. Thank you for being with us, welcoming me.

I really appreciate.

I know you're such a busy person, but your insights are incredible and we look forward to following you and all the good work you're doing. And then you posting on LinkedIn on that big board Corporate.

Not you. Yeah.

Thank you, Marla. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Bye Bye.

Thank you for listening to the Wealth Gap warriors podcast. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. I love the show, guys. You're awesome.

Join Lewis next time as we continue our Wealth Gap Warrior journey, creating a brighter future for all.