Automatic High-Ticket Enrollment System Without A Phone Call: EU 100 with Lucas Garvin

You know, I think one of the main things is that when we first tried this, we assumed it wouldn't work, right? We were like, we're going to treat this like any marketing test, but our hypothesis is that this won't work.

This is Experts Unleashed, revealing how professionals and entrepreneurs transform experience into income while positively impacting the world. For years, Joel Erway has helped entrepreneurs develop and launch their expert-based businesses. Growing them beyond 6 and even 7 figures a year. Now, a professional expert serves their community through paid training, education, or service. This podcast will help you design and execute your plan to become a 6 or 7-figure expert without a massive team. To get more information or apply now, visit theperfectexpert.com. Let's get started.

Hey, what's going on everybody? Joel Erway here and welcome to a very, very special episode of Experts Unleashed. I've got an amazing guest for you here today. His name is Lucas Garvin and he is with the Thought Leaders Institute. I met Lucas down in Orlando back in February at Todd Brown's Top One Mastermind. This is where, you know, the top marketers, the top experts in the industry get together. We share what's working and we collaborate with each other. And today we are gonna be talking about Specifically how to enroll high-ticket clients without ever needing a sales call. And this is not like through some launch method. This is evergreen. Lucas came up and gave this presentation down in Orlando in February. And when he announced his topic, I cleared my calendar. Like I shut everything down. I'm like, I need to learn this because this is something that I've been working on in my own business. We can enroll high-ticket stuff with Audiences that know, like, and trust me, you know, without ever needing a sales call. But this guy dialed it in with evergreen enrollment. So before I get into the details, Lucas, I'm excited to have you here and I'm excited for us to, uh, to jam out.

Hey Joel. Yeah, super excited to be here.

To give people a little bit of context, after our meeting in February, the first time we connected and I watched your presentation, I bought all your stuff, you know, whatever offers you had out there on the internet. I said, okay, I need to learn it. I'm gonna go implement it because this has been something I've been wanting to learn for a long time. And I'm excited to say, as soon as we did implement it, we were able to automatically enroll $10,000 clients without ever needing a sales call. Now, we applied this to one of our clients' funnels and they were running a book funnel. We took what you were doing, we modeled it, and we started making $10,000 sales. So I'm really, really excited. Lucas, can you give us a little context, right? Where did this all come from? Because this is like, I've been in the high-tech industry for a long time. This is a nut that people have tried to crack for a very long time. And there's lots of different ways to enroll high-ticket clients, you know, 5-figure clients without ever needing a sales call. Give us some backstory. What's the genesis of how you guys came up with this, how you developed this?

Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I mean, we've been in the industry for a long time ourselves, and we've always been told if you ever want to make a sale over $3,000, it's either with a 3-day live event or with a sales call. And, you know, our background, we actually started in this industry as a marketing agency behind the scenes and some of the biggest brands and names in the industry, running all their funnels, running all their traffic. Doing their launches with them, helping them promote their events, things like that, create their offers, all of it. So, you know, the sort of experience that we had doing that, you know, really lent us to want to see like, what else can we do? And so eventually over time, we decided to shift our business model and we're now Thought Leaders Institute instead of an agency. But it came from a deep, deep personal annoyance and frustration with sales calls. Frankly, nothing against salespeople, nothing against phone sales. I've personally closed millions of dollars with phone sales myself, and so has my business partner, and we've done a lot of it over the years. So nothing against it, but personally, it's something that I never truly enjoyed. It was always a part of my business that felt like a necessary evil. It felt like something I had to do, not something that I got to do. And on top of that, you know, we got to a point, and this was really the crux of it for us, where we were able to scale our marketing to where we had more opportunity, more people who wanted to book calls than we actually had space or time for. And our calendars were so full of calls that not only were we exhausted and sort of underperforming and not really enjoying life and business, but we were losing money left and right because we couldn't close that opportunity. And so we were faced with this decision of, do we go out and we spend a bunch of money hiring, training, and then paying, you know, a sales team? Or do we see, can we fix this issue another way? So that's, that was really what kicked it off for us in looking for what is an evergreen high-ticket sales solution.

Yeah. What I loved about it when, you know, you gave your presentation was that It was ethical. Like it was, it's kind of, isn't that weird? Like whenever we talk marketing, like you have to use the word ethical because our industry is so tainted. But like it was, it was a legitimate, it was an ethical way and a natural approach to inviting people who are ready to take that next step, that deeper step, and doing so in a way that provides a level of urgency that gets them to take action now and still remove the sales call from the process, right? Everyone who knows me, like my audience who's listening to this right now, like, you know, we're in the high ticket space. You and I are both in the high ticket space. And I talk about this all the time. Like there's no one size fits all. There are people who thrive with the sales call model or they don't mind working with salespeople. And then there are, let's say, the solopreneurs, people who wanna manage a, a very small team and they're not designed to manage salespeople where I could just see this model working really, really well for them. So walk us through kind of like the overview of how this all works. Like, why is somebody like, how are, how were you able to solve that problem of turning a cold prospect, someone who's never heard of you before, and converting them into a premium 5-figure client over the past— You know, how long ago did you start doing this? Well over a year, right? I mean, you've been doing this for a while, almost, almost $1 million in high-ticket sales automatically, right?

Yeah, absolutely. So we've been doing this for probably about 18 months or so, uh, is when we ran our first test with this. And it actually, the very first time that we tried it without dialing anything in, and we were like, you know, this is like hat over the wall. Like, you know, everything that we've learned says that this is going to fail, but let's try it anyway. And if it does, then fine, we tried it and we'll go back to phone sales. But it, you know, $60,000 a day, like right off the bat, right? $6,000, $10,000 sales in a single day doing this model when we first tested it. And so, you know, the high level of this is that, you know, as you can imagine, you know, it's hard enough, quote unquote, right, to sell a $5,000, $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 offer when you've got all the right marketing and the pre-framing, and then you've got a phone call with a human where rapport is built and a conversation is had and objections are individually handled. Right? So, you know, that's challenging in and of itself. And there are plenty of people that have been able to, of course, do that very successfully, but not without effort and work. And so it's no less true on this side that, you know, when you go to replace that human element to a certain extent, because there is still a small human element in the system, there are things that you have to get right, right? So you have to be on point with your messaging. You have to be on point with your positioning and your framing of, yes, you and your business, but also your framework and how you help people as well as ultimately your offer. So those are things that you really have to get right. And, you know, thankfully when we first tested this, we had already sold quite a bit of our program. And so it wasn't the first time that we'd marketed or sold it. And so we had that sort of established, but the high level of this system is, you know, not unlike many other types of high-ticket funnels out there. There's an application process. Now what's different? So in phone sales, right, typically you've got, you know, someone submitting a form to apply, then they have to book a call, then they have to show up to that call, and then they hopefully buy, right? And so there's like a, there's a lot of friction in here and that's To some extent by design, but also it can filter out a lot of opportunity too. And so the process that we use with evergreen enrollment is a little bit different. So there's still an application, but in this application process, instead of then having them book a call, we don't have a call at all, right? And we then review their application and then either approve or decline it, right? And so if it's declined, You know, we might do a downsell or something. If it's approved, however, they then enter into a special window now that they have a time-limited window to then enroll. And so of course they're getting emails, they might be getting texts, they might be getting messages. We introduce them to our client concierge to, if they have any questions, reach out. But this is sort of the high level of the system. There's of course a sales page and order forms they can enroll themselves. But yeah, that's it.

And so this is primarily— is this on the— this is on the backend of like a frontend product, right? Or do you do this without even a frontend product?

Yeah, we do it both, right? So we have a frontend product that we run cold traffic to on Facebook and other channels. And right after purchase, they're invited to apply. We get, you know, 10%-ish, 10, 12, percent of those people to then apply, and then they go through this system, right? And then they enroll. And sometimes that enrollment happens within 24 hours of ever hearing of us, right? To a $15,000 offer. So, you know, that's sort of the front end side of things. And then we also have, we do this off the back of webinars as well. So people come into a webinar, live webinar or evergreen webinar, and then they are invited to apply. They apply and then go through this process as well.

Interesting. So me, here I am running the webinar agency. I didn't realize you did that. Like I thought this was totally only on front-end products where, you know, gotta have low-ticket sale and ascend them into the, in the back end. I mean, that's what we did with our client. It was, you know, we had a book funnel going with them and we were trying to dial in the back-end offer and I'm just like, screw it. They had issues with, you know, we were driving applications, then they You know, would hop on this, on the call with a phone salesperson, but they were having issues with their phone sales team. So I'm like, put them on pause. Let's run a small test with Evergreen Ascension. And that worked. So I didn't realize you also do this with webinars.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Interesting. Okay. So my mind is just racing already. Way to go, Lucas. You have given me another shiny object to go chase. So what works better in your, in your opinion, going off the back of webinars or, or, you know, front-end low-ticket offers?

So here's the thing, right? I would say, you know, one's not necessarily better than the other. I would say both, right? And we actively do both. And so one of the things that I love about low-ticket offers is when you do it right, you can acquire a customer For basically no money. Why? Because you're breaking even on the traffic. Or you can, if you're doing really well and you do like us, you're able to then actually invest above and beyond what people are spending with you to go a little bit negative on the front end to aggressively acquire more customers. And then because they're then applying and enrolling in your program automatically, you know that, well, after 19 days, the average customer value goes from $80 to $2,000, right? So I can afford to acquire a customer for $100, for example. And so that's sort of the type of mindset that we take to the front-end side of things when we look at this. But then with the webinars, you know, what's really awesome about that is the webinars can be used by themselves, you know, without someone who's already bought a low-ticket product from you, but they can also work on the backend, right, to an existing customer. And in fact, that's a really powerful combination. So for example, you know, we do webinars to our existing customer base that come in through our low-ticket funnel, and those people convert really, really well. So definitely, you know, both, either, you know, work really well. I'd actually recommend probably starting with a webinar because frankly, it's a little bit easier in my personal perspective and view to start with a webinar than to just have the low ticket on the front end. But yeah.

What do you see as, for me to analyze like the market right now, I am seeing a shift in like buying behavior, like how people like to buy. And I think this is gonna have to shift the perspective of business owners too, because, I mean, we've seen more and more people just want to chat. Like you've got chat boxes, you've got email, right? Fewer and fewer people actually want to hop on the phone. Now there's always, I don't know if I'm gonna say there are exceptions, like obviously phone sales is still very much alive and well, but we're seeing, like you've got chatbots and like, When people are ready to buy, talk to 'em now. It's like when, when, you know, the, the number one way to convert a customer is talk to 'em as soon as they reach out, or it's like as fast as possible. The longer you wait, they're gonna cool off and the, you know, your lower your conversion rate. What are you seeing? Do you think that has anything to play with your evergreen enrollment system? Like, do you think the change in buying behavior is partly due to the fact of why your stuff works so well now?

1,000%. And I think that this is a change in buyer behavior that's frankly never going back. And there's something that's really important is that this is, this is a macro-level shift. This is not just a shift in this industry. This is a shift in the world. This is a shift in human behavior and buyer behavior across the planet. And this is evidenced by companies like Tesla and Ford moving their sales entirely online, right? Tesla's been doing it from the beginning, but Ford CEO recently announced that they're moving all of their EV car sales online. We're talking selling $20,000, $50,000, $70,000, $100,000 cars online without a salesperson, right? Which, you know, of course Tesla's been doing for a while, but Ford is now seeing that opportunity and now seeing the efficiency and the profitability of that. And they're doing the same thing. And these are just two recent examples. Of course, there are other companies, other large companies that are doing this already or planning to make the move very soon. And so that's just one example. But of course, in this space right now, in this industry, yeah, $15,000, $20,000, $10,000 offers are being sold online right now. And I think that's because, yes, of the shift in buyer behavior. And I think that there's really two pieces to this shift. I think the first is that Ultimately, people are looking for less friction and less steps in the buying process. They don't want to put any more effort into making a decision than they personally feel is necessary for them to make the best decision for them, not to pass through your process, not to do all the checks and boxes that you think are right for them to make a decision, but for them to make the decision that they think is best for them. And so that's one of the things that's so powerful about this is it's really enabling them to do that with more freedom and less friction. And so that's one piece. And then I think the other piece is that they want more independence in their buying journey. They want to have more control over, you know, how do I consume information? How do I learn more about the offer? How do I, you know, go through this buying experience and make my own decision and my own process. So I definitely think that that's a big part of it. And part of this low friction thing as well is if I don't have to deal with a person, but I can access one when I need one for the purpose that I feel is important to my decision-making process, all the better. Right. And that's, that's what this is. I think that's why this is working so well.

You know, you said something really important during that. Control, right? It's shift in control. Nobody wants to lose control. Nobody wants to feel like they're being controlled. They want to feel like they are in control. And how do we do that from a sales process standpoint? Well, the last thing that you probably want to do is force them to get on a sales call where they know they're going to be asked a series of questions. And whether this is true or not, they're anticipating manipulative selling tactics or, you know, they don't want to be manipulated, right? So that's why they want to avoid the sales call. So I think there's absolutely a huge shift going on. I just read that article with the Ford CEO recently too, and I'm like, oh yeah, you know, in there. So he talked about changing his entire sales process, right? It's not really the sales model. The model follows the process. He goes, honestly, the dealership sales process just doesn't make any freaking sense anymore. It's like nobody likes showing up on a dealership because everybody knows, like, why would anybody want to show up on a, on, you know, for the vast majority of people, some people just like negotiating. They feel like they win. They feel like they've got that control. But the vast majority of people, you walk onto a dealership's lot, like, you know, you have no idea if you're getting the best deal or not. You know, okay, here's what I want to offer you. Hang on, let me bring it back to my sales manager. Let me go see if he'll approve it and we'll see what's going to happen. It's like, give me a break. You know, and yeah, there's definitely a shift going on.

There's a reason why there's the running joke of the used car salesman. Right. And not to continue to use dealerships and cars as the example here, but in sales in general, there's a reason why. And it's not to say that all salespeople are the used car salesmen out there. Right. There are many amazing salespeople out there. And I've personally bought from some that I loved and I loved the buying experience with them because I felt taken care of. But, you know, the reality is, is that people have their guard up when they go to speak with a salesperson, when they go and they speak with someone who they know has an agenda, who they know will benefit from them making a decision that may or may not be in their best interest, right? Then there's an inherent sort of amount of defensiveness in the conversation and in the buying process. And so What you're saying is absolutely true. When we're able to take that out of the equation, that defensiveness, that guard sort of automatically decreases, especially when they can feel empowered in the enrollment process to be able to access the information and access the, you know, visibility to the things that they need to make a decision much easier and with less friction. Yep.

You nailed it. It's all about control. If your prospect feels like they're in the driver's seat, the relationship's going to get started off on a very, very good foot. And that's what I love about this. You know, I've seen, I think most of us have seen that there has been a shift in the industry and so for a while now. And, you know, it's, that happens. Markets change, people change, and you have to adapt. And I'm really excited to see this evolution. happening because it opens up a whole new opportunity for experts and business owners who, you know, wanna stay small but mighty, right? They don't have big aspirations to manage a large team or salespeople, 'cause I gotta tell you, it takes a special personality to manage a sales team and manage salespeople. Like, that's its own thing. Like, it is, if you've never done it in the past, It is absolutely like a very special type of person that you need to, that you need to be to manage salespeople and a sales team.

So, um, personally, and budget, right? I mean, between commissions, base salaries, or other types of agreements and things, having a sales manager, if you don't want to manage them, that's a salary, you know, and other commissions. And so, uh, absolutely, you know, there's, there's definitely the The personality piece, and is that something that you even want to do? You know, for us, the answer was a clear no. And then there's the money piece too, which was also another factor that we considered. And that's, that's just if you're doing phone sales, that, that's the additional expense and sort of the decision-making process. But, you know, what we never expected was for this to actually work better than phone sales.

Hmm.

Almost a factor of 2.

Whoa. So explain the evolution of this, right? Take me from, you know, some of the changes that happened from version 1 to version now. Like, what were some of the, you know, the improvements or the tests that worked that did or didn't work as you started to evolve this evergreen high-ticket enrollment process?

Yeah, what worked and didn't work? It's interesting, right? We've done so many tests in the last, you know, 18, 19 months or so. I think one of the things that we found did not work as well as, say, leading people, you know, from a webinar to the application or from a low-ticket offer to the application was just straight-up cold. to the application. We did not find that that worked as well. So, you know, running people who've never heard of you, you know, directing them straight to the application, it just didn't work as well. Now, we sort of expected it not to work as well, but we tested it because we're marketers and that's what we do. We test things. But that was something that did not work as well. Another thing that didn't work as well was with the deadline, giving people too much time to make a decision. Right. So we tested giving people like 10 days to make a decision, and that just— it didn't work as well. There, there wasn't any pressure. And so—

So just for clarity, when you say the deadline, this is after somebody applies and gets accepted and you send the invitation to them, you give them— you're, you're testing that deadline of like, okay, I'm extending the invitation, but this invitation is only available for X number of days. That's deadline that you're, that you're Yeah, 1,000%.

That is— and thanks for clarifying that. Yeah. So when they apply and then they've now been approved, on approval, they then get a set number of days to enroll.

Yeah. Got it. Okay. So I didn't mean to cut you off. So you said with that specifically, you tried 10 days and that didn't work as well as— what do you default to now?

Yeah, it's interesting, right? So we're still sort of testing this. We've tested up to 10 days. We've tested tested as short as 4 days. What we have found has worked best is somewhere in the range of like 5 or 6. And one of the reasons that we think that this is, is that 4 days, it's not quite enough time for some people, not all, but for some people to feel like they've fully explored everything and they're making a fully informed decision that they've had an opportunity to ask and have questions answered. You know, for example, by sending a message in or replying to an email in the email sales sequence, for example. And then, you know, with 10 days, there's no urgency to do any of that. Right. And so what happens is it becomes a I'll do it later, I'll do it later, I'll do it later. I don't do it. And then my deadline's over. Right. And so with that 5 to 6 day window, one of the things that we think is working really well about that, especially the 6 days, is that It's not a full week, so they don't in their mind go, oh, I've got a whole week, right? But it's as close to a week as you can get, right, without being a week. And so, um, I really think that that's sort of the sweet spot based on the tests that we've run so far and everything, you know, data-wise is pointing to that. So that's what we're running with right now, and it's been working really well.

Interesting, interesting. So let's talk about the deadline a little bit because I know we've had conversations in the past of You know, ethical urgency and ethical deadlines. And so, this is not an open and close enrollment process. With your deadlines, you use different forms of urgency to inspire them to take action. Right? So, explain that. You know, explain what you found to work the best in terms of, you know, what will happen when the deadline expires. So, what have you tested and what? have you found works really well?

Yeah, so we've tested 2 sort of 2 different ways of creating urgency in with this deadline, right? The first is we've tested, you know, after your deadline expires, this component or these parts of the offer, i.e., typically bonuses of some kind, will go away. And then you can still choose to enroll at a later date, really sort of any time, just without that, right? And we've also tested when your deadline, you know, ends, then we're pulling the whole offer off the table. And so, you know, one of the things that we found is that that works a little bit better, pulling the whole offer off the table. Now, here's the thing. This is evergreen, right? And so what that means is that this deadline is not the same deadline for everyone, right? Somebody who applied last month had a deadline relative to when they applied, right? Which is different from the person who applies today. And so that being a relative deadline, what I like about that, you know, when you use the word ethical, right, it's a deadline that is a real deadline. And it really is enforced and it's specific to them. So that's what makes it evergreen versus, you know, well, on August 12th is the deadline for everyone to enroll. And so what we are testing right now is continuing to have when the deadline ends after they, you know, they've applied, they've been approved, they've had, you know, 6 days or so to make their decision, their deadline has ended, the offer is now off the table. Then reopening enrollment on a certain frequency for anyone who has previously been approved, right? And running a simple promotion, nothing crazy, to reactivate those people who had previously applied, been approved, and to now invite them to enroll again with yet again another sort of limited time window.

How well does that work? That's brilliant, by the way. I've— I think a lot of people are leaving money on the table. By not re-engaging with people who applied and didn't enroll?

Yeah, it's working phenomenally well. We have people who buy in 24 hours or less from hearing of us, and we also have people that have bought our program after applying and being approved well over a year ago. So we have everything in between. And what we found is that the average, for example, for our front-end sort of low-ticket offer buyers Is, uh, was it 7 days to application and 19 to enrollment for those that enroll, right? Uh, and so that's a, a pretty cool thing to do on a completely automated basis.

And then for those who don't enroll, send them a follow-up promotion a handful of months later, like, hey, we're reopening it for you. Second chance, second helping. That's wild. Awesome. So this is your evergreen high-ticket system, evergreen high-ticket enrollment system as part of your evergreen, your whole evergreen operating system, right? So give us a, give me, because this is something that I'm not familiar with, with your methodology. Like we laser-focused, you gave the presentation on the automated high-ticket system, but Like, how does this look in your entire, your entire ecosystem for any of my listeners who are interested in kind of taking the next steps?

Yeah. So, you know, I mentioned before that we'd had a lot of experience working with people in this industry at the highest levels, building evergreen funnels of all different kinds, from webinars to low ticket to, you know, selling courses, self-study, all kinds of different things. And, you know, when we went to go build Thought Leaders Institute, one of the things that we asked ourselves is how can we from the start or as soon as possible thereafter really design and engineer this business to be as scalable as possible in such a way that we can scale sales while maximizing client results and freedom all at the same time. Right. And so for us, what that looked like was How can we design how we serve our clients, how we sell to our clients, and how we market and bring new leads and customers into the business in such a way that it is self-scaling, right? So we designed 3 self-scaling systems that make up what we call the Evergreen OS or operating system, as you said. And so it has 3 parts, right? The first part is what we call a high-impact hybrid. And so essentially what this is, is a way to serve your clients, to coach them, to support them, to train them, educate them, and help them ultimately transform their life or business in whatever area that, you know, you might be doing it in. And to do that where it's 90% automated and 10% personalized, right? So it's highly leveraged, it's evergreen, it's something that people can join at any time so that you can run this type of evergreen enrollment process. Right? And so that really saves you a lot of time and go from instead of, you know, serving clients one-to-one or maybe in cohorts where you're sort of capped in the number of people that you can serve or the amount of time that you invest serving clients really balloons and you've got a full calendar to serving 50, 100, 200 clients in a few hours per week total, right? So that's the first thing that we, that we help our clients with if they don't already have that in place. And then the second thing is what we've been talking about here. And so we call it the Effortless Enrollment Machine. And it's this high-ticket sales without sales calls sort of model, right? And so we help them add that. And we do this because, you know, if we just tack on all kinds of marketing to help you scale and the way that you serve your clients can't support, you know, getting a dozen or 20 or 50 new clients in relative short order, then your clients have a crappy experience and nobody wants that, right? They don't want it. You don't want it. And so we help you fix that problem first. And then the same thing with sales, right? If all we're going to do is go and put a bunch of marketing in place that just fills your calendar with sales calls, and then you miss out on opportunity like we did when we first did this, then you're losing sales. And so We fix the way you serve clients so it's more scalable. Then we fix the way that you sell to clients so that it's more scalable. And then we tack on what we call the audience acquisition engine, which is more of that sort of front-end customer and lead acquisition funnel to help you, whether you have an audience or not, acquire it and automatically move people into that enrollment system so that you can close high ticket without sales calls.

That's awesome, dude. I mean, I was blown away from the presentation that you gave down in Orlando. I executed, I implemented, we saw immediate results, right? I mean, I think this is great for anyone who is in that situation where, you know, managing a sales team or managing salespeople is not really on the top of your priority list. You know what you want? That small and mighty team, whether it's you and a couple of assistants or team members or whatever. Or maybe just wanna run this solo. I think this is an awesome opportunity for people to go check you out. And so obviously we'll drop some links down in the, down below and people can go check out your stuff, Lucas, and go follow you over at Thought Leaders Institute. Is there anything that you wanted to mention before we wrapped up or was there anything that we glossed over that you wanted to make sure that we highlighted before we hop off together?

You know, I think one of the main things is that when we first tried this, we assumed it wouldn't work, right? We were like, we're gonna treat this like any marketing test, but our hypothesis is that this won't work, right? That we're going to go and we're gonna do this and it's going to bomb and we're gonna go right back to doing phone sales with a full calendar and we're gonna have to hire a sales team and pay these commissions and deal with people that aren't showing up and wasting our time and We're spending all this money to acquire, you know, these calls and whatever, and for what, right? And we just assumed that it wouldn't work. And so I'm so glad that we decided to take a chance and try to solve this problem, because had we not, we'd still be stuck with that full calendar. So I'd say if this is something that sounded appealing to you, you know, at this point, right, then sort of suspend disbelief for a moment that you have to have phone calls to close high-ticket sales, uh, and consider if it might work for you.

Love it, dude. It's always great reconnecting with you. It's always great chatting with you. Brilliant mind, uh, someone who's been a big disruptor in the space. And so it wouldn't surprise me if I see lots and lots of more people talking about this, but you heard it here first. I mean, nobody's talking about it right now. Nobody's talking about automatic high-ticket enrollment without a phone call. If you're interested, go follow Lucas, Go follow his stuff. Lucas, it's been a pleasure, man, and, uh, can't wait to chat again soon.

Thanks, Joel. Let's do it.

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