AI Billionaire Lucy Guo Reveals How She Built Multiple $100M+ Companies | Networth & Chill

I think AI is going to continue to enhance people's work. A lot of the, like, more tedious tasks that people are doing, they can no longer do, and they can focus on the harder problems. So one example I like to give is lawyers, right? Where, like, AI is going to help them reduce the amount of time that they're spending, like, reading documents. It'll help them figure out, like, where the loopholes are in an argument, and then they can work on figuring out a solution.

But am I going to be out of a job? Is AI taking my job?

I mean—

What's up, rich friends? Welcome back to another episode of Net Worth and Chill with me, your host Vivian Tu, aka your rich BFF and your favorite Wall Street girly. Hate it or love it, uh, it's hard to ignore that AI is going to be a part of our future. Whether it's delivery apps managing orders more quickly, cars having better safety features, or frankly driving themselves, or even financial institutions monitoring markets faster than ever, AI is here to stay. And I've only recently gotten into learning about how it can improve my work, but today's guest is an entrepreneur and mogul who has been in the AI game for far longer than most of the tech bros you see in the news. As the founder and CEO of my own business, I know just how hard it is to get any new venture off the ground, and I think I've accomplished a lot, But my special guest puts me to shame. She's the co-founder of Scale AI, the founder of Passes, and having recently just passed Taylor Swift, she is now the youngest self-made woman billionaire in the world. Everyone, please welcome Lucy Guo.

Hi, I'm Lucy, and don't worry, I'm sure your liquid net worth is still higher than mine.

We'll get into that today.

Yes.

But Lucy, before we get into all things Passes, money, entrepreneurship, I have to ask you an icebreaker question, and this is actually something that I've personally been very curious about because we're friends on social media.

Yes.

What's the obsession with Barry's Bootcamp? Sometimes I see you there like 4 or 5 times a day. What's going on?

Okay, well, I was going 4 or 5 times a day. I was actually did it 7 times in one day on a Sunday, um, because there's a worldwide competition and I wanted to get number 1 in the world because I'm very competitive as a human being. Um, other than that, like I usually go 2 to 3 times a day and I think it's really like, I just enjoy it. It sets a routine for me in the day, you know, I wake up early. By the time I'm done working out, I like— people are still waking up, right?

Yeah.

Which is really cool for me. I feel more productive in the day. Like, I think that like working out is like an extra cup of coffee. Like for me, really like an extra 3 cups of coffee in terms of energy. So it really helps me like start the day and I think it helps me last longer in the day. So I'm able to work until like midnight and not be tired.

Wow.

And I love music and it's like a rave every time I go to Barry's in the morning, like I go in, it's like a dark red room. There's like EDM music playing and they, it, it's just a lot of adrenaline.

This actually sounds like my nightmare, waking up early to go to a rave. Like my idea of a good workout is probably like 5, 6 PM. It like is almost like a treat after the day's over. Um, but I want to pivot and talk a little bit about your money. It's a money show. We gotta get there.

Okay. Um, let's do it.

You have officially been named. My mom's favorite child. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, you have officially been named the youngest self-made woman billionaire in the world at only 30 years old. When I found out you were younger than me, I felt severe, severe jealousy. Can you share a little bit about how your relationship with money has changed over the years as your success has grown?

Honestly, it hasn't really changed much. Like even to this day, like, for lunch today, I went on Uber Eats, I clicked offers, and I chose which I could get the best deal for that, like, you know, seemed like a good balance between Chinese food and money off. Um, I think that, like, there was a period of time when I, like, first hit a little bit of liquidity, um, where I was like, okay, cool, like, I need to, like, save up and invest this so I can, like, fat fire, essentially. Um, I did that, and then I think around, like, COVID, um, I realized, like, okay, cool, like, now I have a decent amount of money in my bank account. Um, And I wanted to run like a social experiment because I like made friends with like the first splashy person I've ever met. And I saw how much nicer people treated him because they just like thought he was wealthy, right?

Yeah.

And I was like wearing like Walmart basically and Shein all the time at this point. Like, I like— nobody knew like how much I had. I was like basically still ordering like UberXs, UberPools, etc. Like, let me experiment. I have this money. I experimented for a little bit and it was like mind-blowing to me. I was like, wow, people in this world really care about money because suddenly everyone was much nicer to me. Like places where like they wouldn't let me in, um, or they would like literally shoo me away, like were like, oh my God, yeah, come in, like no questions asked. Um, like clubs, for example, in LA. And I was like, wow, this is like shocking. Um, just because I'm dressed nicer. Um, so I definitely went through like a little splashy phase. Um, and then I got bored of the experiment. And at that point, like afterwards, like let's call it like a few months, it lasted like 6 months. I was like, oh wow, like everyone just like— Like everyone knows now, so I don't need to do this anymore. And I'm back to wearing like Shein. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you feel like you, like, where did those like habits of being super frugal come from? Like you're literally the world's youngest female billionaire. Why are you still trying to get buy one, get one offers on Uber Eats?

I mean, I don't like the concept of wasting money. So yeah. When I get buy one, get ones, it makes me feel good about like I'm getting a deal. Right?

Yeah.

Like I'm the type of person where you could probably trick into like upmarking an item, but by I think I'm getting 50% off, I'm like, okay, this is incredible. But I like to think of like every dollar spent as like an investment. I think a lot of this comes just like from my family upbringing.

Yeah.

My parents always emphasized like saving money, investing money, and they were extremely frugal. Like, I definitely think they lived below their means, um, because they could definitely afford like air conditioning as 2 software engineers or 2 electrical engineers.

Yeah.

But like, did we have air conditioning? Like, no, they wouldn't turn on the air conditioning.

Right.

Um, they were just like, oh, just like bundle in more clothes or like strip off more clothes. And I'm like, there's only so much clothes I can strip mom and dad.

Yeah. You're like, I can't take off my skin.

Exactly. Yeah. But I think that like those values really like became ingrained in me and yeah, like I to this day like still kind of live by them. Like I always try to find like little travel hacks, etc. Like why spend the money if I don't need to? But like, you know, I'll like treat myself sometimes. Like I will buy caviar because caviar is delicious, but like, will I try to find the cheapest caviar that doesn't taste disgusting? Yes. Yeah.

Okay. So you're optimizing.

I love that. Yes. Yes.

You talk about your parents being 2 electrical engineers and being very frugal. Like, what was money like growing up? Like, what was that relationship with your parents and like asking them for money or an allowance or anything like that?

I mean, I definitely did not get an allowance. They did like give me like, you know, like $10, $20 here depending on like, they're like, oh, if you like, you know, do really, really well on your report card, we'll give you like $20, right? But like, I remember I was like bullied in school for not wearing certain brands, and I was like, oh, like can I like buy like this brand? I remember a girl literally told me word for word, she was like, oh, um, if you wore like Hollister you'd be cool, but you're not wearing Hollister, like you're wearing Walmart clothes. And I was like, ouch. Um, so I like, I would ask for these things, they were just like, oh, like it's not smart to spend money on that. Or like, I think they like fake pretended like they couldn't afford it.

Yeah.

Um, so like I would say I felt like we grew up very middle class, you know, like small home, like normal neighborhood, etc. Um, but I could, I think my parents also did like well in the sense that like they And they saved up and they invested and they were like able to get into like the upper middle class. And I saw this transition from like when I was born until like now, right?

Yeah. And you mentioned earlier that your billionaire status still doesn't mean that you have as much liquidity as I would. So for everybody listening who doesn't know what that word means, liquidity is essentially liquid cash, basically dollars in your bank account that you are able to spend today. Talk to me about that. What does it mean to be rich on paper? Why do you say that? And what is that versus, you know, actual billionaire status? Yeah.

So rich on paper is like your net worth is in illiquid assets.

Yeah.

So honestly, like, I think a lot of people are rich on paper in terms of artwork even where it's like it's not necessarily as easy to like move a Basquiat piece, for example, unless you were to take a significant discount, you would probably need to— it would take some time to sell it at full price.

Yes.

I would say that like for my shares, could I become liquid if I wanted to? If I wanted to, like, yeah, yes. But I don't think—

And so the large majority of your wealth, what is that coming from?

I would say in terms of my liquid wealth, it would be investments that I've made. Otherwise, it is definitely in just like private company stock in both like Scale and Passes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

And what does like that feel like for you on a day-to-day basis? Like not having that, does that stress you out? Do you want to liquidate? Is that a plan in the future?

Yeah. I mean, I think for me, like my lifestyle doesn't require that much. Like I'm happy flying like commercial. Um, I think food is yummier when you go into hole-in-the-walls than like nice fancy restaurants.

Yeah.

Uh, I would say like the one thing that like really makes me want to liquidate is flying private is really nice. I've done it a few times. I've like splurged a few times. And like, you know, when your flight's delayed like 5 hours, you're just like, man, it'd be really nice to own a PJ.

Yeah.

And those are moments where I'm like, uh, like I've like literally looked it up cuz like, I guess theoretically if I wanted to buy a PJ right now, I could. It's just maintenance costs, right? Like, am I How are they going to justify like the $2 million a year like maintaining that jet?

It costs $2 million a year to maintain a jet?

Yes, it costs like $2 million a year to maintain a jet. And it's like, okay, cool, like even if you charter out the jet, you're still most likely losing money. I've like quite literally been doing so much research on like, is there a jet I can get that I can charter out enough where I'm breaking even-ish?

Okay.

The answer is potentially if you get a Challenger 350 and you— it's based in LA. Because LA can demand higher charter fees and there's like more— yeah, and there's like more demand and supply or less supply, more demand.

I feel like this is kind of like a marriage of like your two sides. Like one, this like very eccentric, fun, outgoing, wants to be everywhere, wants to party, wants to do that half of like wanting the private jet, but also you're very like logical, analytical, Frugal side that's like, I'm gonna do all of the research, build an Excel sheet, see if I can make the math work on this. But like, I feel like that's like a perfect representation of who you are.

Yeah, I think so. I mean, like, I like, you know, it's organized fun.

Yeah. Oh, organized fun.

Okay.

That's a good one. Um, speaking of organized fun, dropping outta school, that's pretty organized fun. Probably not what your parents wanted you to do.

Oh, definitely not.

Um, but when you dropped outta school, uh, you actually founded, co-founded Scale AI, which is now valued at an eye-watering $25 billion. One, how did that come about and what made you wanna be an entrepreneur?

Yeah, so, um, it actually happened because of several pivots and eventually, like technically our roommates gave us the idea. They were also doing Y Combinator, but we started off with ClassPass for clubbing and, um, it became very clear it was a very bad idea because only VCs were signing up. So there was clearly no demand and we're like, okay, cool, let's pivot. And then we came up with an idea where I was like, okay, cool, we're gonna help you find the best doctors for certain procedures. So like, let's say you needed like a root canal, like we'd find you the best dentist for that. Or like you needed a jaw surgery, we'd find you the best doctor for that. And then it also became very clear that it was not a great idea. But like during this app, um, I was like, man, it'd be really nice to be able to like click a button and have someone call a doctor for us instead of like us having to manually call doctors.

Yeah.

And our roommates—

That's very millennial of you.

Yeah. I mean, like, it was just like you do things that don't scale and like us calling doctors all the time was not gonna scale, right? Right. And then our roommates are like, oh, it's like an API for humans. And at this point I had built a lot of viral apps and I knew that that was a controversial statement because it's like dehumanizing humans essentially. So I was like, oh wow, that like, do you wanna work on that? And he was like, no, you guys can have it. I was like, oh great. So we like ran with it. We created an API over a weekend, threw it up Product Hunt, which is like a site where you like launch apps on. And then that's when VCs reached out and they're like, take our money.

Okay, I have a very stupid question.

Yeah.

What is an API? What does Scale AI do, like, overall? And like, why is it worth so much money?

Yeah, so I mean, I guess the simplest way to describe an API is like someone sends— like they use our code and they like send a request to us and then we send a callback back. So, um, for example, like if you were to use Scale API back then, you could like send something going like, okay, I want you to call like this phone number and, um, Tell Lucy how much I love her. And then, um, we would basically— honestly, it was like me doing it. So then like I would get that and then I would like do all the tasks that like it asked us to do. Um, and then I would like be like, okay, cool. Like your request was successful. Like I did this.

Wait, but that's a human doing it.

Yeah.

So how did it eventually become an AI company?

So Scale is mainly actually based off of humans, which is very interesting, right? So we built our company initially with self-driving car labeling.

Yeah.

So self-driving car companies would send us data, so like images, videos, LiDAR data, et cetera. And we would like send back, oh, that's a stop sign, that's a pedestrian, that's a car on the road. And since then it's expanded. But like the main like concept of Scale is that we're the picks and shovels of the AI industry and we help label your data to make your AI better.

So you literally built a label maker?

Basically.

Okay. Like why is that important?

So it's important because machine learning models are only as good as the data that you feed it. You can— so machine learning models are only as good as the data you feed it. So basically, if you taught an ML model a car is a person, it's just going to get it wrong, right? So all these companies need all this data labeled to make sure that their model is accurate.

Got it. Okay. Where did you learn all of this technical stuff? I mean, tech as a space hasn't been particularly female-friendly ever. Like, you're just like this young girl. Where'd you learn?

I would say I started really young.

How young?

It goes back to like, I guess, second grade.

Second grade? I can barely walk and talk in second grade.

What? Yeah, it like goes back to like wanting money. So I was like earning cold hard cash, like, you know, doing things on the playground, like mowing lawns, et cetera. And then my parents as punishment realized that like taking away my money was the best way to punish me. And I was like, oh no, you're not gonna do that. So I discovered a thing called PayPal and I was like, oh, you could just have money on the internet. So I basically like, you know, bought one of those Visa debit cards from Home Depot. I opened up a PayPal account and then I was already on the web like, you know, playing Neopets, etc. I entered these gaming forums.

I was very rich in Neopets. I was very rich.

So I would like, you know, sell 1 million Neopoints for $10. I would sell like a rare pet for like $500, etc. And I started learning how to like make bots essentially to like auto-adopt the like rarest pets on the market or like auto-buy the rarest items on like in the stores, etc. And then I would just like take these and like sell it on these online gaming sites.

For real money?

For real money, yeah.

Oh my gosh, that's incredible. Um, wow. So you really got your coding start on Neopets?

Yep.

Like you just wanted to make money?

Yeah, I just wanted to make money. And I also, I was like very addicted to Neopets, so I would like spend a lot of money I made, you know, trading up. So I'd be like, okay, cool, like I got a bunch of like potions, I'm gonna sell these potions, and then I'm gonna trade it for like an unconverted Royal Croc.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's so incredible. You, like, you said you like really wanted money. Why? As a kid?

I think my parents just emphasized money and I think that like, because of like what I was wearing, et cetera, people just assume like, they're like, okay, cool. Like you're poor. Yeah. And then when I asked my parents if I could like buy nicer things, they were just like, no.

No.

So allowing me to have money allowed me to like buy things. Um, even as an example, like my parents are very strict, so I wasn't allowed to like skateboard and I would like really wanted a skateboard. And like being able to earn my own money allowed me to like buy these skateboards for myself.

So you wanted power, you wanted agency.

I guess I just wanted things. I wanted to be able to do things, right?

You wanted to be able to do things. That's really interesting. Um, and despite leaving Scale AI in 2018, you held on to most of your stake, like, which is now worth nearly $1.2 billion with a B dollar. This is so incredible.

Yeah.

Like, what informed that decision when so many founders end up selling part of their stake or all of their stake?

I mean, I did sell a very large portion of my stake back around like the Series B, which is— it was probably like the worst financial mistake I've ever made in my life.

Do you regret it?

I don't regret it. And the only reason I don't regret it is because I invested it well. And because of that, I'm able to like afford a certain lifestyle that I have right now. But like my lifestyle just like hasn't really Like, yes, my expenses have gone up because like now I travel more, like I went on sabbatical for a little bit, or like I will order massive amounts of food that I don't necessarily finish sometimes. But I like, yeah, like my lifestyle is like still relatively, I think, frugal relative to my net worth.

Yeah.

And I haven't felt the need to like increase the spending. Like I'm very happy where I'm at. Like I'm comfortable where it's like if I want like a night out to buy a table, like I wouldn't have to like really think about it, right?

Yeah.

But like I don't need to be spending massive amounts at like Louis Vuitton Right. Um, so I think, yeah, like, I just, I don't know what I would do with the money. Um, and I think that like taking liquidity does have like some downsides. So for example, if I wanted to like get rid of all my shares today, I could probably do it tomorrow if I took like a 40% discount on my shares. But like, if I don't need liquidity right now, why would I take a 40% discount on all my shares?

Right.

Um, I could take a loan from a bank Which I am kind of considering, um, but it really depends on interest rates, right? Like if the interest rate is like 2%, a no-brainer.

Yeah.

If it's like 10%, eh, like it's not great. Less appealing. Yeah.

Wait, this, okay, so this is something that very wealthy people do all the time and I want you to explain it for our audience. Um, you mentioned like if you wanted to sell all of your shares tomorrow, you would have to take a 40% discount, meaning she would have to sell them essentially 40% off. Mm-hmm. And she would get less money overall. But instead, rich people don't do that.

Yep, they don't do that.

They take loans against their assets.

Yes.

So you would potentially take a loan against some of the investments you currently have. If you were to do that, like, where would those dollars end up going? The, you know, the money that you would get from that loan?

I would honestly probably just give it to different investment firms. So I'd probably give some to Morgan Stanley, some to JPMorgan, and then there's like some more boutique investment firms that will invest in like non-traditional traditional assets as well. Um, I just want to diversify. So for example, like right now I'm not making any income or cash flow from real estate, but like if I invested in, um, a firm, like a real estate firm, right? Like, yeah, that could be very interesting. Um, it's all a calculation, right? Like I actually haven't gotten interest rates back yet. Uh, they're presenting, like they're doing their thing right now.

Yeah.

But if it comes out, can you just see where I'm like, I think they'll Like money that I'm putting into things will like cover the interest rate, then that's interesting.

Yeah, you want to make sure that the investments from those, you know, that cash you borrowed actually pays for the interest rate that you owe having borrowed the money.

And it would be safer investments because if I did borrow money, um, I wouldn't want to— like, let's just say I'm 30% down year to date in the market. I wouldn't want to invest in stocks.

So fun. So funny. You mentioned that like, you know, selling some of those Scale AI shares was the worst financial decision you ever made. What would you say is the best?

I think the best financial decision I've made was, I mean, like, I guess the first thing I did was when I was like younger in high school, I bought a bunch of Bitcoin.

Really?

At like $100 a coin. Most of it is gone though because the exchange got shut down by the FBI and I never moved it to a wallet. So, oh well. Second would probably be investing in founders. So Ramp was a really, really great financial decision. It's a company that's actually New York-based. They build credit cards for companies. Yeah. And that was like one of those things where I just love the founders. I love what they've done in the past. And I was like, I need to invest with— like, I need to get into the company.

Yeah. We are going to touch on your love for founders and your love for creators very shortly. But before we get there, I just need to ask you, because you are somebody who is OG in the industry, what is your POV on AI? Where is it going next?

I think AI is going to continue to enhance people's work. I think that like a lot of the like more tedious tasks that people are doing, they can no longer do and they can focus on the harder problems. So one example I like to give is like lawyers, right? Where like AI is going to help them reduce the amount of time that they're spending like reading documents. help them figure out like where the loopholes are in the argument and then they can work on figuring out a solution. Doctors were like, oh, like AI will help them quicker diagnose patients, but then they can work on better solutions because they might know of like a clinical trial that'll work.

Yeah.

Once they actually like narrow down on like what disease the person has is.

Mm-hmm.

Mm. Yeah.

But am I gonna be out of a job? Is AI taking my job?

Especially not you because you're podcasting right now and like the AI's not gonna be a podcast host. You don't think? No, I think that like in general, like the jobs that like really are going to stay are ones that are more human-based.

Okay.

So for example, like I think that no one, like a nurse, right?

Yeah.

Like an AI is not gonna give you an IV. An AI isn't going to like—

Okay, okay, okay, yeah.

It's not a personality you can connect with.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, I definitely do not want an AI to give me an IV. That sounds horrific. So you mentioned earlier your love for founders, your love for creators. Um, talk to me about the next thing, Passes.

Yeah, so, um, I'm working in the creator economy right now. I think I have a love for founders, and I actually view creators as founders. I see them as small businesses that can grow into larger businesses. When you look at the largest creators, or like in terms of net worth, for example, all of them really took their brand and created a product out of it, right? But at the end of the day, they're still monetizing their brand. So, um, Kylie Jenner with her lipstick, Jake Paul with W, Logan Paul with Prime, etc. Like, you see countless examples, and I wanted to essentially like a creator commerce and monetization site that allows creators to build their businesses by providing the best tools out there to monetize their brand.

Yeah, amazing. Um, what like gave you this idea? I mean, like, you're an expert in the AI space. Why creators? Why now?

Uh, I would say like over COVID I became friends with a lot of creators and I was like, wow, like you guys are really just like brands. Like you guys are businesses, right? And like you should monetize better. I think at the same time, What was happening over COVID was that creators were getting like really inconsistent brand deals and that they were getting paid like not on time per se.

Yeah.

So they couldn't rely on brand deals for income. And I was like, well, this is like, like what options do you have? And I was looking at like different competitors and really Patreon was the main competitor. They existed for a decade, but they mainly relied on like subscriptions.

Yeah.

And there's so many other ways creators monetize and a lot of creators can't monetize off a subscription. Like they can monetize off of live streaming, they can monetize off of selling merchandise, but like maybe no one was subscribed to them. And I was like, okay, Like they don't necessarily have the tool sets. Like not all creators have the tool sets that they need to like build their businesses. Let me figure out a way to do that. I was actually balancing 2 different ideas. Another idea I had was working on like basically a SAFE stock, but for creators to get equity into companies to build long-term wealth. And I figured that like I could always just take that idea and like put it in Passes later.

Yeah.

So decided to like start off with Passes because creators, it's all about trust. And if you own the majority of their income, They will trust you versus like if I were like, oh, take a less like high dollar amount but get equity in it. Like they're not gonna trust me if I tell them that.

Right.

Yep.

Right. If I were to join Passes today, what are all the different ways that I could monetize?

Yeah, so you can create merchandise, for example, and you don't have to own your merchandise. So think print on demand and then sell it to your fans. You can do one-on-one calls. So a lot of our like more expert creators, like they'll do pay-per-minute calls where it's like, okay, they charge like $50 a minute to, Give advice, for example. You could livestream. You can earn money through subscription. You can earn money through DMs. There's just like variety of different ways, and we're constantly building new ways for creators to monetize in different income streams too.

I love that. Yeah, that's so smart. Can we pivot a little into your personal life? Yeah. So as a fellow former fellow Miami gal. Wow. You used to live in one of the most expensive apartments in the city, um, which I'm very jealous of. You have incredible views there. Uh, was that property just for funsies or was that more of an investment decision? And how did you go about making that choice?

Yeah. Um, honestly, when I chose that building, um, I actually, I actually bought in Edgewater beforehand.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but then the like car elevator, they had like a car elevator parking thing was broken, so I couldn't move in. And I was like, well, I mean, I'm homeless right now. I've been living I've been living out of a hotel for like months at this point. I need to get a place. And then I was told that I could close at 1,000 in like a week. And I was like, okay, that's amazing.

1,000 is the number of her—

Yes, it's called 1,000 Museum. So I was like, I can close in a week. Like, this sounds amazing. Uh, and then there was like a private driver for the building. So I was like, great, like I don't need a car. I can just like Uber to Barry's— or not Uber, I could take the private driver to Barry's and back every day.

And it's just like complimentary for the building?

It's complimentary. I mean, it's part of the HOA fees, which is absolutely insane. Yes, of course. Like, for me, I was like, I like, I was initially optimizing for skateboard distance to Barry's, but like, I was like, you know what? Like, a driver is kind of better than skateboarding. Yeah, of course. Because, you know, I've been hit a lot skateboarding. So yeah. And then I was also like, from the investment side, it was Zaha Hadid's last building before she died. So in my head I was like, okay, cool. Like, this is a piece of art. People are going to want to live here because she's like, you know, an amazing architect. I don't think it was a good investment decision now that—

Really?

Yeah, no, no. Why do I not think it's a good investment decision? Well, let's see, they like doubled the HOA fee, so like I didn't really like think about that. Like I didn't think it would like double in one year, right? And then on top of that, because the HOA is so strict, not a lot of people want to rent the building either. Um, and now Miami has so many other options to choose from. And when I think about it, like now market is like what, Like $30K to $40K to rent. Let's say you get the higher side, like $40K. Okay, so like $40K, you pay like $10K a month for HOA, $30K, then you pay taxes. Let's call it like $15K. And at like $15K a month plus like, you know, property taxes, etc.

Yeah.

Do you really want to like have someone live in your unit and like potentially destroy it?

Right.

Um, especially when it's like, you know, like a $7 million unit.

Right.

So I mean, like, I'm like, eh, about it, but it's fine.

Yeah.

We'll survive.

Yeah. Not the best investment.

Yeah.

But you had fun while you were there.

Yeah. I mean, like, I think now in the future, which for my LA place I did this, I'm only buying single-family homes from now on because you actually own the land and there's no HOA fees that can, you know, just double.

Yeah. And speaking of your LA place, you had a really scary encounter, like a couple, I want to say a couple months moving into your LA place, you actually got burglarized, burgled.

I don't know the word.

Yeah, I got burglarized.

And then since then I've had 2 shots at like, so someone shot a BB gun at my window, it smashed, and then I got it fixed and the same day I got it fixed, It got smashed again with a BB gun. And I'm like, I don't know who's out there to get me.

But like, you made a comment, you were like, whoever tried to like break into my apartment and steal my stuff, you're an idiot. There isn't even anything here worth stealing.

There's literally nothing there worth stealing.

Like, what, like, what did you mean by that? Like, oh, I have to imagine if I broke into your home, you have like a closet full of stuff I can steal.

Oh yeah. So all my jewelry is actually in a bank vault. So, um, all my really expensive stuff. So like, you know, the art, the jewelry, uh, the watches, They're not there. So my LA place is literally just like workout clothes, Shein. And I mean like literally, like I don't even have my designer clothes there.

Yeah.

Um, maybe I have like a few pieces, but like they're not worth enough to like risk breaking in.

Breaking in. Yeah.

So yeah, there's like really nothing there. Yeah.

That's actually really interesting that like someone with such a high net worth like also is like quite smart. I would say like quite responsible with all of your nice stuff.

And then it's only in a bank vault because I I used to wear my jewelry and then I just kept on losing it. Like it would just like fly out of my hand.

Lucy!

So then, you know, like then I was like, you know what? Like I need to just stop wearing all my nice stuff. Let me just like put my nice stuff inside a bank vault and then—

But then what's the point of having it?

I mean, like I kind of view some of them as an investment. Like I have a very rare AP watch.

Yeah.

That I think is just going to like, I already know that it's worth more than what I paid for because there was a worse one that auctioned off at Sotheby's. For more than what I paid for. Yeah. And it's like 1 in 4 or something in the world. So I was like, you know what? Like, this will increase in value. And then the jewelry, I don't know. They were like very spontaneous decisions. I'm like, I'll pull it out for like a nice event, you know?

Okay.

Yeah. All right.

All right. What is your favorite thing these days to splurge on?

I think the thing I splurge on is Like the last thing I splurged on, and it's probably my favorite thing, is like when I'm traveling, right? And like making sure that like I'm able to, um, see the music that I wanna see. Yeah. So, um, that could be like Coachella where I splurged on like where we were staying. And then like—

For everybody, Lucy is an absolute like rave animal. She's always at music festivals. It's, it bewilders me.

I love music festivals. But anyways, um, yes, so for Coachella, like I, Just like, because weekend 1, I was so upset because I didn't get to see the music I wanted to see because just like walking back and forth was so tough. I was like, okay, let me stay in like basically on grounds at Coachella in the Polo Villas. And then there's like golf carts that'll take you like from the villa to like whatever stage you want. They like pick you up. And then I golf cart hopped as well, like at the fest— it was just so convenient.

So much easier.

Yeah. And it's like those things are like if EDC, right? Like I want to get to the festival on time. I don't want to wait like 3 hours in traffic. So I'll just like book a helicopter. Yeah. It's like a function of time and money.

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of splurging, something else that you like to splurge on, which, by the way, I want everybody to know I did get an invite to this year. Lucy Palooza, your birthday party every single year, you trick it out. There's always a crazy DJ. I don't know if it's at like your house or some random mansion. There's, you know, free Botox, like tattoo parlor, like you have everything. Everything. Are you bankrolling that? Who's paying for that?

Yeah. So, um, before I was bankrolling it. Okay. Um, when I first started the concept. Yeah. Um, and then it got so popular that like sponsors wanted to come in and are just like, oh, that is like sponsor event. We'll give you like $20K to have a sign here. We'll give you like $50K to like, um, have like an entire booth here, an activation. Um, so now it actually comes out profitable every year, which is like very cool. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

You literally turn a profit even on your birthday?

I turn a profit on my birthday. Yeah.

That is genius. Yeah.

And it's kinda like festivals. You lose money in the beginning and then it becomes popular and then you make money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow. That, that literally is the festival model.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, and, uh, so one thing that I am curious about, you, you're splurging on some of this jewelry, you're splurging on LucyPalooza, but I see you very often on Instagram Being like, hey guys, I'm traveling to this random city. Does anyone have a, you know, couch I can sleep on? Lucy, explain to me why you won't just book a hotel room. Why are you sleeping on people's couches?

Okay. So I actually really enjoy spending time with my friends. So when I like stay with someone, it actually like, like for example, in Miami, I stayed on like one of my best friend's couches. Yeah. I just haven't seen in a while. And last time I was in town or he was in town, I didn't get to see him at all. Mm-hmm. So I was like, okay, if I'm on someone's couch that I like really wanna spend time with, they can't get rid of me, which is incredible.

You can't get rid of me. That was your attitude.

I'm dead. Well, I mean, like, they're like forced to spend time with me. That being said, again, like it's a function of everything. So like my friend was like, oh my God, come stay in like my $50 million like townhome in Upper East Side. Yeah. Oh wow. Like, you know, she has a maid, et cetera. But it was like a 10-minute walk to Barry's and I specifically don't like that Barry's. So then I was like, okay, I'm like, have a bunch of meetings all week long. I wanna be a 30-second walk from Barry's.

Okay.

So for this trip, I actually booked a hotel so I could be a 30-second walk from Barry's and manage—

Your schedule.

Yeah, manage my schedule. But I think I prefer couches just because I like spending time with people. It's nice. It's so depressing after a day of meetings going back to my hotel room and just being alone and being like, well, now what? That was literally yesterday. I finished meetings early. I think I got back home at 6:30, 7:00, and I just sat there and I I was like, well, I mean, like, I guess I'll just work on my laptop alone and like not have a conversation with anyone.

That's crazy. You and I are so different in that way because you are very clearly an extrovert.

I'm not though. I'm like, really? I would—

I have—

I get social anxiety. I think like what they call me is like an ambivert or something. Like, I love like deep one-on-one conversations with people, but if you throw me into a room full of people, I, I can't speak.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. I'm actually probably that way too, but like at the end of the The idea of going home to a hotel room where no one else is there is perfect.

But you're talking to people all day.

Yeah, that's true. I am, I am.

I'm on my computer all day.

I have a very social job, fortunately or unfortunately. Um, so before, uh, I let you go, we have a couple questions about your entrepreneurship journey, um, as well as just kind of like the earlier days of being a founder. I wanna know, first question, What is the craziest thing you have ever done to save money?

I would say the most extreme thing I've done was lower my expenses such that I was pretty much only paying utility bills. Um, after I had my like first liquidity event, I decided to buy a $70,000 apartment.

Um, where are you getting an apartment for $70,000?

Las Vegas.

Okay. Yep.

I was located 5 minutes away from the airport. So, um, okay. I basically was So I would just skateboard to the airport, book a fake flight, and then like, you know, go into the Amex lounge, eat for free, cancel the flight, and then go back home. So really I was only paying just like utilities. It was great.

So you were eating for free every single day in the Amex lounge? Yes.

And I traveled by electric skateboard, so like electricity bills, but that was it. Wow.

I can't believe after making money from your first company, I mean, nearly a billion dollars. You were still living like that.

Well, I mean, technically I had only made a few million at this point in time.

Okay.

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

At this point in time, you'd only made a few million.

Okay. Got it.

I still don't know if I could electric skateboard my way to my meals at the airport every single day, but I commend you. That is an incredible story.

It's very fun.

It is a fun one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, I meant like electric skateboarding is fun. Oh, you should try it.

I would break a leg.

I mean, I did break several things, so fair enough.

Okay.

Don't do it, guys. It is very dangerous. Probably more dangerous than riding a motorcycle.

Um, next question. You've been under a lot of pressure and scrutiny as a woman founder. Do you think that has a lot to do with just the fact that you've been in the AI and creator industry, or is that more to do with just like your identity as like an Asian woman?

I think as an Asian woman, I'm like not what people expect, right? Like, I'm very loud. I do a lot of things.

Not demure.

I'm not demure at all. And I don't think people necessarily like it because I don't fit the mold of what they think that I should be. Yeah. And I do think a lot of people are very jealous. What I will say though is that like most women actually really like me and people are always like, oh, but like women are ones that get jealous. And that's just not true with me. Mm-hmm. I would say like almost all my haters are men and I almost, I almost feel like it's because I make them feel like emasculated in some way. Like even—

'Cause you're rich.

Yeah, I'm rich. I think I think I'm like in a male-dominated field and doing better. And when they're like, oh, but I'm smarter than her. Why am I not there? And then like even at Barry's, like people get mad because they're like, why is she lifting heavier weights than me? She must be cheating somehow. Yeah. Or like she's gonna die of a heart attack by doing that. Um, but yeah, I would say like and almost like I actually don't think I have any hate DMs in my entire Instagram inbox or Twitter inbox for men. Like women, it's all men.

Oh yeah, I kind of love that actually because it makes me feel like you know you're a girl's girl and the girls that like you are girls' girls. Yeah, but then all of your haters are just kind of like lame.

Yeah, I know. I'm like I don't really I I love the fact that like at least I don't think I have female haters or I haven't like they haven't been loud enough for me to notice them. Right? Yeah.

Huh. Honestly, if I was a man, I would be jealous of you too. For listeners who are starting their entrepreneurial journey, what is one piece of advice? that you would give them?

I would say take the leap, but make sure that like before you take the leap to really build a good network because who you hire is going to like really build whether your company is successful or not. You can have a shitty idea, but if you like work with smart people, you'll always be able to pivot into a better idea. But like once you are in entrepreneurship journey and it's going to be a lot harder meeting like talented people that you can hire. Like nowadays all I know is founders, right? But like back when I was like, you know, working at places And like building my network via hackathons, or even in college, like I had a bunch of smart people, and those networks are still where I'm mainly like sourcing people from.

Because now you can't just hire other CEOs because everybody's already working.

Exactly. And like a lot of the people that I've worked with before, they're like, they started their own companies. So, uh, I think that like building that network early on is so, so important.

Yeah. Um, you've experienced astronomical success very, very young, very early Why are you still going? Like, what fuels you? What drives you to keep building? You know, what even made you wanna build Passes when you had such a successful exit already? Like, I would be like, bye guys, I'm riding off into the sunset.

Yeah. Um, I think that I've always optimized for learning and in between Passes and Scale, I actually started a venture fund. And, um, part of this venture fund, we started this program called HF Zero, which is, um, where we like invest in second-time founder, founder engineers. Years. We were like living with them, and, uh, just their ambitious, uh, like, I, like, I could feel their ambition and their drive. And, uh, I got the itch to just start something else. And I was thinking like, what can I start where I'm like still learning something new? And I thought about, I was like, okay, like consumer is like one of the hardest like companies to build in. Um, I think like B2B and enterprise is actually very brute forcible to be successful in. Um, but consumer, it's like a good mix of luck but also strategy. And, um, it's, I think, the hardest challenge a founder can take on. So I was like, you know what, like, YOLO, let's do it. I have like nothing to lose because like I did okay with Scale, right? And like my venture fund's doing really well. So, um, it was like low risk but like high reward.

Yeah, but like what's the reward? Like you don't need any more money.

Being able to like say I did it.

You just like want to win. You just like winning.

Yeah, I just like winning. Like how I killed my body with 7 various classes to win.

Yeah, you just like winning. Yeah. Winners win.

I love that.

Exactly.

It's the Asian competitiveness. You know, when your Asian parents are like, what, you weren't first in your class? What's wrong with you?

Um, wow. I feel like that's something that we have to break down in therapy. Um, wanting to win because our parents never told us that they were proud of us. Uh, yeah, no, I agree with that. I I feel like at a certain point it's not necessarily about each incremental dollar. It's about doing something that you believe in.

Yeah. And then like if there's something that I wanna, you know, donate to in the future, I'll have more dollars to donate to it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's really smart. Um, thank you so much for being here today. Can you let everybody know where we can find you and find Passes?

Yeah. Um, just follow us on Instagram. My Instagram is @guoforit, just G-U-O for it. You know, go for it, guo for it. And then, uh, we're just @passes.

@passes. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me.

Awesome. Thank you.

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. If you liked the episode, make sure to leave a rating and review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcast@yourrichbff.com. Follow @networthandchillpod on Instagram to stay up to date on all podcast-related news. And you can follow me @yourrichbff for even more financial know-how. See you next week.

Bye!