From Burnout to Recognized Leader During Crisis | Lynne Levy Coaching Review

Hey Cheryl, how are you?

I'm doing great. How are you, Lynne? It's great to see you.

You too. Things are great. Thank you for doing a recommendation and a case study for me. I appreciate it.

Oh, it's, it's my pleasure, Lynne. Working with you these last few months has, has completely changed my, my whole perspective personally and professionally. So it's my pleasure too.

Awesome.

To give you, to give back what you have given me.

Thank you. So, let's start with the beginning when you started your journey. What made you decide to join the Program?

So, I had been flipping through the LinkedIn feed. This was at the height of COVID in New York, right? So, we were just getting into the thick of it and I had actually been sick and did not know it at the time. But was feeling very, um, just lost and confused. A lot was going on, and through the LinkedIn feed, through a connection of mine from General Assembly— I had taken a data analytics course the year before— so through one of those connections who must have been connected to you, she liked one of your posts, and I just found it to be so inspirational. As this unknown entity was happening on the periphery, that it led me to your page, it led me to what it is you represent, and it just sounded like a perfect fit for what I needed at that time. So it was through LinkedIn, the LinkedIn newsfeed.

Amazing.

Awesome. Yeah, and like that, just like that, the power of sort of social connection. And I think it was just like a simple thumbs up to one of your posts. And that is what I need right now. I am in need of inspiration. I'm in need of a positive uplift from a product perspective. Like, a product perspective, yes, but also just I needed some sort of connection.

So where was your career at that point, at work?

Well, work-wise, you know, I I had been in my role for a little over a year at that point, and things had been going well. I think COVID sort of put this stall before we knew it was the COVID stall, that I was feeling like a little derailed. I was getting a little negative, maybe a little burnt out. So career-wise, I knew I had a good thing going, but I lost perspective. Of it. So I felt that I was in need of some sort of transition, which is again, I think that was one of my initial goals by getting into your program. Where might that lead me? Because I was feeling stuck and trapped and uninspired. Yeah.

And I also remember you're like, "I just don't know what to do next." I don't know what to do next.

I didn't know, I don't, I didn't even know how to ask what to do next. I felt I was already maxing out of my product career before the product career really even started.

Right.

Yeah. Or I had these expectations of what I thought I should be doing that I wasn't doing, that I was like making up these stories in my head and just was lacking the direction. But it also turned out that my manager at the time who had come down with COVID was also like working through— so it's like, I think in retrospect, we were all as like a product group and as a team collectively working through our own things as COVID was happening, as our company was going to be going through a bankruptcy announcement, right? As colleagues were going to be losing their jobs. So it's a lot. It was, it was a lot. It was a lot. And That's where I was at, just in this sort of like this torrent, it felt like, and I just needed some sort of grounding. I needed some sort of direction that I didn't know how to really connect with because we were all split.

Right.

I report to a virtual office. Well, so I'm the virtual entity really, like the office is out of Austin, and I would make my visits every quarter there. And then like that was cut off.

Oh yeah, life changed.

Yes, life, life changed very rapidly, and I felt very— I thought I needed to maybe take it in a different direction.

So what that was, right, it was just a big unknown beyond what I have is not working.

Yes, and I was in that flight mode.

Absolutely, yeah, in terms of the fight-or-flight.

Yes, I was also taking on a very sort of big project on the more operational, less product side that I was just feeling like, oh, so done with. Yeah, right, I'm like, done. This isn't like product for me. But, so I think I was looking for a little out.

So what were your biggest takeaways? What did you learn?

Well, I learned that I actually didn't want out. So what the course taught me was, just first and foremost, the discovery of myself. Like tapping into my passions, my personality, my leadership skills. What can I bring back to the table just to turn around sort of this automatic negative stories we tell ourselves or the projections or, you know, almost like a family. You start getting a little fed up with your coworkers, right? Forgetting that they're people too and they actually work hard and bring awesomeness to the table. I forgot all of that and I was in that fight-or-flight mode and the biggest sort of accolade I can give to the program is just like that the shifting the personality viewpoint.

Yep, that's awesome.

Like, just reclaim your awesomeness. And when I reclaim my awesomeness, I'm like, oh, this is what I can bring to the table.

Yes, exactly.

Oh, this is, this is how I can work my, my, my area of product, which is actually what it brought me back to. Was the original goal, because my manager and I created this position for me. I had been a customer. I was on the customer side for the software I now am a product manager of. So we created this together, and I somehow, like, lost face that that was actually, like, one of my original goals. Like, me rediscovering myself was what the original intent was for me being brought in as a product. Manager. Wow. It was amazing. And through that, that's when I was hearing— I must have been bringing lots of positivity then to the table through like the working sessions and the modules. Cheryl, you are such a leader, right? That's like, oh, well, that positive reinforcement is now being— I'm being reminded of, right? Probably because I was bringing a different energy to the table.

And did people see the difference?

Yes. Yes.

Amazing. Absolutely.

And I saw the difference. Like, I saw the difference in work of, wow, if you just shift a little bit of perspective, or if you are able to identify sort of like the personality models that such-and-such team, or such-and-such manager, or such-and-such colleague is exuding, you can just like work with that.

Exactly, yeah.

And that was like awe-inspiring. I'd never used those tactics before, but it was really bringing like sort of like the human element back into the fold and just cutting out all of that, that day-to-day nonsense, all that, you know, I was like getting hung up on, oh, I'm just doing such like tactical boring stuff. Well, let me make that tactical stuff sort of let me put a different approach to it. Let me put a different spin to it. And then let me focus like my harder-earned energy on the stuff I'm really passionate about. So these subtle shifts just change the energy dynamic. And that's again when the feedback I started getting from colleagues was, oh, thank God you're here to like bring some light to the table. That was— it shifted in such a short period of time during a crisis. And we had COVID, we had bankruptcy, we lost— my colleagues lost their jobs. And I did feel a sense of responsibility to bring just like up that level of managerial sort of integrity and tact and just like that humor and positivity to the table, so just change it around.

And leadership. Pure, awesome leadership.

Correct. And again, after I just sort of subtly shifting some, some of my tactics, my manager just kept commenting on my leadership skills. And I'm telling you, Lynne, I had not heard her consistently refer to me as a a true leader before then.

Wow.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Yes, it is still amazing because it's still happening. Once you learn it, you can't go back.

Right, these are life skills.

These are life skills, and I don't want to go back. And that's like the— just how defined, you know, the skills are, can be. Working it, it's like, oh, well, now that I know these definitions, I'm not going back to what was. Heck no.

And your career is doing this, it's accelerating. Tell the audience what's going on.

So right now, my manager and I— and nothing yet is set in stone, but I like to approach it as if it's already a done deal. So given that we are— so our level of company bankruptcy is that we are sort of— there's a reorg happening. So with the reorg, what my manager is talking to me about is then upping that, that, that level. It's like product manager plus, right? And so we're working on a new job description for me to build a team and build other responsibilities as she's sort of reorganizing aspects of the company. And while nothing is yet sort of signed, sealed, and delivered, I think just having the conversation, again, in this very short period of time, is really important. And just owning it as if it had already existed makes me feel like I've already won.

Yeah, just think about it. You've gone from, oh my gosh, I'm just so done. Yeah, I'm building a job description for me as a leader.

Yes, exactly, which it could lend itself to a variety of possibilities, product and beyond.

Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Oh, amazing. And I know that these things do indeed take time, but I know that I'm committed now to want to work towards building what this could be because, again, I've reminded myself how much I do really like the people I work with. I really like the work I'm doing. So it's this rediscovery.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

I get so many questions on, well, so many questions about Lynne, so I don't know about the whole group coaching piece of it. Tell us, tell the audience what some of your experiences, because we do certainly do a lot of group things.

I loved hearing the perspective of other people who are outside my industry. I feel like because I'm in the traditional book publishing sector, it's sort of, I find less people in my world. Especially on the, on the product side, right? But being able to hear perspectives from other, other product managers out there just helped me sort of expand my worldview since I've been in the publishing industry for so long, and this is really my first go-round as a product manager in this industry. So while there is a startup mentality, I Again, I feel like I hadn't really connected to a product managing community.

Right.

And yes, yes. And even just like how the, you know, the, the sort of openness within Slack, hearing like people's questions. And sometimes if I wasn't able to participate in the group sessions directly, the recordings of the group sessions, just like me even like listening to how other people think and how other people just, I don't know, perceive. Very helpful. Very, very helpful. And I've brought some of those tactics to the table too. Like, my team doesn't need to know that I'm taking a little class.

Literally group learning. We learn from each other.

Learning from each other. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Now, somebody, once, once we get through COVID, actually, let's say you're in the middle of New York with your mask on and you bump into somebody who has his or her mask on and they say, tell me about this program. What advice would you give to somebody who's a little unsure about whether to join or not?

Like, I had sort of walked that line a little bit too. I think as you're approaching something new, you have like, should I, shouldn't I? I just say go for it. You know, if there's something that is clearly leading you down this path, there was something that clearly led me to you or led me to the program, right?

Right.

Just, just listen to your intuition. That was sort of like my— if I'm going to posit anything, it's just listen to your intuition. It's bringing you to down that avenue. So try it, and then you allow for this trial period, right? And it was really then, like, doing the trial that I'm like, yeah, this is a good fit for me. This is a good fit. So try it. Like, listen to your intuition. Listen to your gut instinct. Do the trial, and take it from there.

Awesome. Cheryl, you're a rock star.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, and thank you for your rock star-ness, for, like, reminding me that, yeah, I'm a rock star too.

Yes, you are, absolutely. And I'm so excited to watch your journey.

So excited. I'm super stoked, and I can't thank you enough, as well as the group, because it's all, it's personal as well as collaborative, and it's helped me immensely, especially during this crazy time that's called COVID.

You were in the middle of this program in the middle of it, New York.

Yes, after I had just gotten over COVID too. So it couldn't have sort of, it's like sort of downloading new software, right?

Right.

Right. It's like, okay, I went from like 2.5 to 3.0. Woohoo! Yeah. Amazing. Yes.

Thank you again, Cheryl. I look forward to watching your journey. Talk to you soon.

You as well. Bye, Lynne. Bye.