EP 43: Why No One Talks About Land Flipping – And How Jack Bosch Turned It Into a Forever Cash Model!

But the problem is she didn't have the $60,000 to buy it. So what she. What happens is she reached out to our coaches, she reached out to us, and we have a huge network because we have been doing this for, for 22 years. We've been coaching this for 16 years. We have a company, the coaching company, with the biggest and best network out there in the country. So she needed $60,000. So her coach helped her within a matter of a day or two, find an investor. They looked at the deal, says like, yeah, I'm happy to give you $60,000 and in return for a split in the deal, I don't know what split. That's up to negotiation. Up to them to negotiate it. But with that, she was able to buy the property. Now then over a couple of months, she went through the process of splitting it into four. Already had the first one sold for $65,000. So in other words, the investor could potentially get all his money back already. His or her money back already. And now they still have three properties left which are still worth another.

Are you frustrated watching your hard earned money ride the knee jerking Wall street roller coaster? Are you looking to diversify into alternate investments and set them on autopilot to achieve financial freedom? It's time to learn the ways of the wealthy. It's time to Think Outside the Stocks with your host, Madhvi Jain, an immigrant from India and ex IT professional who will bring you industry experts to illustrate a passive and holistic financial approach to to build not just passive income, but also your generational wealth. Madvi is on a mission to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time. And a thousand more to go. Are you going to be part of this vision? And now, without further ado, here is the host of Think Outside the Stocks, Madhvi Jain.

Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to Think Outside the Stocks. Another episode with your host, Madhvi Jain. And today we have an interesting guest in our studio. What if you could build wealth without ever dealing with single tenant repair or property management? Nightmare. Well, today's guest has mastered this art of land flipping. Yes, land flipping. Creating a path to financial freedom that most investors overlook. Let's dive into how Jack Bosch thinks outside the stocks. Jack, welcome to Think Outside the Stocks. I'm so excited to have you here.

Thank you, Madhuri. I'm super excited to be here.

Thank you, Jack. Before we go ahead, I do want to mention that this is information and education purpose only. Whatever we are providing as an education on this podcast, please be sure. To do your own due diligence on it, consult your tax professionals, your lawyers, so that you can implement this strategy in your financial structure. I actually introduced my guests with three fun facts about them, so I'm going to just tell about your fun facts. First of all, I love what we have common in our story. I quite often say that we all have uncommonly common story. Bits and pieces of our story can be resonating with other story. And that's your story as well. You came from, you know, Germany with two suitcases and just, you know, nothing to your bank account. So immigrant story. That's what we have in common. So from immigrant to investor, Jack came to us with only few hundred converted dollars in his pocket. And within few years he cracked the code of financial freedom. And now as a land expert, that's the second fun fact. As a land expert, he's focused on flipping the lands, not houses. But he built his fortune flipping land with no tenants, no toilets, and no termites. And the third fun fact I like about you is you talk about something called forever Cash flow. That's a different concept and I would love to talk about that. He's just not about quick flips. He, his philosophies about building forever cash through the strategic investments that create generational wealth. So this is a fascinating, fascinating background. Jack, let's, let's talk about, you know, jumping into your background and what led you here. So tell us about before we get into the land flipping and integrity details of it, that what really led you from being that immigrant to realizing that this is the land investing is where I want to be and this is where it lies, the golden opportunity.

So the path was a accidental path. Even coming to this country in my case was an accidental path. I was finishing my college degree in Germany. I had a job lined up already and I figured, let me say, I wanted to do career in Germany and consulting and so on. So I was like, but my English needs to improve. So I found the opportunity to come to the United States for one year, do an MBA and then go back. Everything had everything lined up already, 100%. And, and that was 28 years ago. So I'm still here. So. But I fell in love with the US And I'm now American citizen. And. But I've also fell in love with this young lady, Michelle is her name, and she's an immigrant from Honduras, Central America. So we're both immigrants here from different countries. We certainly didn't. We. People always like to joke you guys when they know our Story they're like, you guys didn't marry each other for the money.

So.

No, we did not because none of us had any. So we basically we married each other for love. And then we figured out how to stay here. And through that process we realized that like I'm a family guy. I love family. Like the favorite, like why we have a 17 year old daughter. Last year we traveled two and a half months through Europe as a family of three. Visited my parents a lot with my brother too. So I'm, I'm a family guy. And what happened is once I got the job here, I had two weeks vacation. I was 100% travel job. So you were in the big five? I was at consultant in Siebel Systems was the company. So software consulting for CRM Systems. I was 100% working at companies all over the United States gone from Monday to Friday. And I was exhausted, I was tired, I was barely making ends meet. And I was only two or three, two years into my career and I was like, I'm not going to do this for the next 40 years. I have nothing against hard work. I'm one of the hardest workers you'll find. But I want to see some fruit of that hard work. I want to see me progressing. I want to see having some liberty, some freedoms. And Michelle, who I stayed for in this country. And of course we fell in love with this country. The United States is amazing. But we barely saw each other. We saw each other Friday night, Saturday, Sunday, and then I flew away again. It's like, this is not sustainable, this is not what I want to do. And in aftermath, I'm glad that this is how it started because some people slip and slide into a role like that once they're already making like good, they have golden handcuffs and things and then they can't quit anymore. I was like beginner. I was like, excuse my language, but forgot that or screw that, I was like, no, I need to do this, I need to do a different path here. So we started looking around and what we wanted is a business that we decided we need to start a business and so we could be our own bosses. I have no business experience. Nobody in my family has any of that. And so we just, we looked around and we stumbled into real estate because it fulfills two, four criteria. Number one, it's designed to be profitable. Number two, it's designed to, you can do it, you can automate a lot of things and you can outsource a lot of things. Number three, it makes passive income. And number four, you can do it from anywhere and even part time. And so it's like, okay, real estate, is it? Because we looked at franchises, like buying a franchise. First of all, I had no money for a franchise, but even if I did, these are jobs. In most cases, these are jobs that you're buying yourself. Like a subway franchise costs $300,000 and you have to open the door, close the door, hire morning shift, evening shift, order food, make sure accounting is done, make sure, I mean, you work 20 hours a day and you make $65,000 a year. He's like, that's not what I wanted to do. So we knew real estate was it, but within real estate, we had no idea. And then it was trial and error. Just like, try, try, try, fail. Try fail, try fail. It took us three years. And over three years, we stumbled into a strategy where we could find people. The beginning, we found people that didn't pay their property taxes. And we figured, well, if they don't pay their property taxes, they either need money urgently or they don't want their property anymore. So instead of attending the auctions, we actually send them a letter. And when they. And when they. And they. The only people who responded were landowners. And we're like, what do we do now? We know nothing about land, but the first deal was somebody, classic case went through a divorce. That piece of land, where was his and why? He and his wife wanted to build a house, more like in a rural community, but the nice small town. He wanted to build a weekend home or so, but the divorce must have been ugly. Now even thinking of that lot made him remember his ex wife. He didn't want to have to do with with it anymore. He just wanted to sell everything he had in the state of Arizona, where I live. And he wanted to move to Colorado. And he basically said, like, offer me whatever you want, I'll probably take it.

Wow.

And I was like. So we did a little analysis. We saw some similar properties in the area had sold for eight to $10,000. We offered him $400 for the blood, and he accepted it. So we drove up there and we put a sign on the property. And the neighbor comes across from across the street. He's like, what are you doing there? He's like, I'm selling the property. He's like, oh, I wanted to buy that forever. And then he offered me $4,000 right there in the stop. And he offered me four grand right there on the spot, and I accepted it. Two weeks later, we closed it and we made $3,600 without knowing anything about real estate, without having having to fix and flip anything, without having to know about repairs, without having ever a tenant on the property with the. No. Now we like to joke, we say there's no three T's on land, no tennis toilets and termites. So this property was essentially a wholesale deal. We got it for 400, sold it for 4,000, but it was worth eight. And since then we have done over 5,000 of those kind of deals. We've just built more and more and more. Next deal came two weeks later. We got a 40 acre parcel for under 1,000 for $500. Two sold it for $10,000, selling it online and then again and then more and more and more and more. Now within a matter of two, three months we had made $12,000, which is more than I made per quarter in my job. And now it was just a matter of like let's scale this, let's do this more and more until the green card arrives. The green card finally arrived and we were able to quit our jobs and eight months later we were millionaires and the rest is history.

Love that, love that. Everything all part of your stories and you know, what touches heart is first of all, you know, I agree with you that you know, love this country, love this land of opportunities. I always say that even if you get a drop in ocean, right. That opportunity itself is worth it to, to take you where you want to be. So I'm grateful for this country to have this opportunity. And secondly, the struggle that you had, you know, it's real. Finding out what you want to do with real estate, choosing is easy, right? Choosing that real estate is easy, but what exactly to do and something that you explore in franchise or other businesses, right? Working on that business is very much active part of it, right? So by no means I don't think land flipping is, could be completely passive, but it is relatively passive when it comes to active jobs like that. And I love that how you accidentally landed on your first opportunity that 10x of your money. I mean 400 to 4,000, that's 10x, that's just not 3,600 profit. I, you know, I love to look at it that way. So kudos for finding out out so accidentally and then just getting addicted to it and doing one after other. Right? Thank you for sharing that journey. So inspirational. I want to go in little bit deeper and delve into what this land flipping business is. I mean I understand flipping and a lot of our listeners understand flipping too. And mostly it's you know, thanks to hgtv, that you get a home which is dated, which is outdated, you flip it, you renovate it, you put, you know, nice appliances, nice painting, and the color, the floors, and you sell. Sell it for a higher price. So that's what you can do with the house, because there's a real estate. There is walls that you can build in there. Explain us, you know, explain to us the business of land flipping. What exactly are we flipping and how are we making money, other than the wholesale examples that you just mentioned?

Yeah, so technically, the term land flipping, which Michelle and I coined, but again, we coined it not knowing anything about all the other real estate strategies. We basically said, while we're getting a piece of land for this, we're selling it higher, we're flipping it. So therefore, let's call this land flipping. But technically it's not land flipping because the word flipping, as you correctly said, is associated with fix and flip. If somebody takes the ugly, how it makes house, makes it all beautiful, and then flips it again. So technically, the term land flipping is incorrect. And that's. We coined an incorrect term, but now everyone calls it that. That's like the official name. What we're doing is land flipping, but it's actually more like land wholesaling. So the traditional strategy is exactly what I just shared. You take a $50,000 property, put under contract for 10, sell it for 30, make $20,000, and it's a bargain. You get it super low, mark it up a little bit, and sell it. You still make money in the middle. That's the standard cookie cutter. Do it again and again and again. And when we teach, as we now have a coaching company teaching this, our students usually start with that strategy. And that's the first 10 deals that they do. Because if they make $15,000 a pop, after 10 deals, they made $150,000. They're well in the money. They now have breathing space. They're like, okay. The second step, though, is the second way to sell it. And there's many, many different ways. The second way to do deals is actually by doing deals with seller financing. So we like to become the bank, and we like our students to become the bank. So in other words, if you take that same deal, a $50,000 property, you have another contract for 10. You have two choices. You can either mark it up for 30 and sell it. And by the way, when you do that, we even do that without using our own money. So in other words, if you have a contract for. If you have a Property, it's worth 50. You have it under contract for 10. You have a contract. You have it under contract with the seller, an agreement that says, I will buy your property for $10,000. Then you market it, and you put another contract with a seller, with a buyer. I'm sorry, with a buyer. The buyer is willing to pay 30. You have a contract that I will pay you 30. So what you can do is you can take both of these contracts, put them into the title company. The title company now opens two sets of escrow, does two sets of title search, draws up all these sets of paperwork, sends everyone their paperwork that they need to sign, sends out deeds that they need to sign, send everything back. And then the title company is going to record a deed from the seller to you. You become the owner, and then right away, five minutes later, a deed from you to the buyer. So you bought and sold the property, but the money only comes from the buyer. So the buyer sends in $30,000, perhaps, plus closing costs. Title company takes the closing cost of the $30,000. The title company now sends $10,000 to the seller. Seller is happy and sends $20,000 to you. Buyer's happy because they own the property. Now the seller's happy. You got their $10,000, and you just made $20,000 without using a dollar of your own money.

Love that. Love that. Very beautifully explained. I mean, you know, I, I do understand this strategy and for our listeners, very, very, you know, detail and simplified explanation of what we call is a double closing. Right?

Yes.

You don't spend your money out of your pocket to the table. There is one side, you know, sitting on a chair, there is a buyer and there is a seller. So you take the money from the seller. Because the closing is happening so close to each other, you don't even have to put that 10,000 or whatever money, you know, if you have a bigger parcel, bigger amount of classic, classic example of wholesaling and double closing. Thanks for spelling that out. Yeah, so.

So the other thing, though, just. Yeah, exactly. The seller financing part is. Now the next strategy, the seller financing is you take that same deal, $50,000 property, you have it on the contract for 10. If you want to do seller financing, you do it different. You, you, you price it different. You go to the market and say, like, I actually want full market value. You price it for $50,000, which normally means the property would sit on the market for a little bit. But now you're saying, but wait a second, you don't, you, Mr. Buyer, you don't have to pay me $50,000 today. I'm simply going to allow you to give me a $12,000 down payment today and then repay the remaining $38,000 over the next 14 years at 15% interest with $500 a month today. And people are going to be like, oh my God, yes, I want to do this because no bank will lend them money on a piece of land, particularly if it's a little bit outside of town. And I'll talk about what kind of properties we focus on in a second. But, but so banks typically on lend on it. So if somebody doesn't have $50,000, they can't buy it. But with this strategy, they now can. And again, in this scenario, you can do the exact same thing because $12,000 is enough to pay the seller, pay the title company and do the deal, do a double closing. So again, you can actually buy the property, sell the property and create a note where they promise to pay you the remaining $38,000 at $500 a month for the next 14 years, all in the same transaction without using any of your own money. So you're becoming the bank you credit now. They owe you $38,000. They pay monthly payments, and if they don't pay, you foreclose on it, you get the property back, you sell it, and you get another $12,000. So there's no risk in it, you have no money in the deal, and just money cash flow keeps coming in. And you do that once, twice, three times. We built that cash flow up to over $71,000 in our business per month and just like $71,000 coming in, coming in, coming in, in cash flow. And that's what allowed us to then, for example, when America was for sale in 2009, because we started this in 2002 or three, allow us to simply go on the market and just simply buy houses at that point of time and start using the cash flow and the profits from our active land business. Because you're correct, it's not a passive business, it's an active business. It's a business where you can outsource and automate a lot of pieces. So you can do it part time, but it's an active business. But it allowed us to use that and put that over into passive assets. And as a result, now we have almost 1,000 apartment units, commercial properties, and a portfolio that's around nine figures.

Love that. Absolutely, Jack. And again, very simplified kind of explanation about the seller financing. Let me talk about that first. What I like about Seller financing. And the way you have explained it too is that the tax complications, right? If you are going to buy something for 10,000 and sell something for 50,000, you're going to trigger a tax event, right? You're going to end up paying taxes at the end of the year. But by doing the seller financing, you're not getting all that money upfront. Probably you're getting your expenses, that 12,000 to give $10,000 to the, to the seller and 2,000 probably additional expenses. But rest of the money is going to come to you over the period of years and you can build, you know, different tax strategies to kind of nullify that cash flow. So that's number one thing that I like about it and the second thing that you alluded to, that you are kind of staggering that 500, 700,000 at a time on a monthly basis. And now you're creating that cash flow and that is what your passive cash flow. So even though, you know, not actively involved into it, you are still getting that passive income. So suppose tomorrow you stop, you know, doing the flipping. Suppose you want to take a two months vacation and you don't want to create a land flipping opportunities or you don't want to work on your business, you still have that passive income that can fund your vacation, fund your expenses. So I love that portion and I'm, you know, really excited to go to the next step and understand how can this business be passive? I know you have your coaching program and you teach many people about it. So what exactly and how can they, you know, make this passive, completely passive? What are the different things and aspects that they have to work hard to get to the point that they can build this asset.

So to be honest, I mean to, to build the land business 100% passive is probably not possible or unless you build it so big that you hire somebody to do it for you. And we have seen that. I know one person has a company, he's like, I'm busy. I'm going to have one of my employees learn this and do this for me and, and I'm going to fund it. And they did something like they made like hundreds of thousands of dollars and he wasn't involved more than one meeting a week. Which is, which is, that's a passive way. But for example, one of our coaches in our coaching company, Aaron, he does about 40 to 50 deals a year on five hours a week. Wow, that's still not passive, but it's only five hours a week. And the simple thing he does, he has, he has Automated the marketing. So he has basically he knows the areas. Over time, he learned the areas that he want to do business in. So he has automated that every week. There's so many kind of direct mail pieces, so many cold calls, so many things to others outside companies that do that for you like that go out there that make the phone ring. Then he has developed a report with so many, with multiple top, top, top realtors, real estate agents, that when those phone calls come in, a call center takes the phone calls. The call center processes these phone calls coming in. And then those leads go actually to one of the realtors that he has a relationship with. So the realtors now help him on both the acquisition and the disposition side. So the realtors get a certain fee for every deal that they put on a contract. And then also that realtor gets to sell that property and he gets a nice commission when he sells the property. So Aaron doesn't have to do all anything really other than do like exception handling when something falls apart or really say like, well, the next three months we're going to go and go after properties in this, this, this and this area and everything else is really done by his team and around it so you can build this business. The nice part is like there's five steps to our business. First is select an area in the country that you want to do this. We've liked three kinds of properties. We like to be in the city. Infill lots, meaning a street, 35 houses, a couple of empty lots. Those you can sell to the builder very, very quickly by giving to a realtor that sells it to a builder. It's sold in no time. Second kind of property for a land in the outskirts of town, bigger city, in the path of growth of larger, larger areas. And the third kind of property is more like recreational land, like 20 acres, 40 acres, more rural areas. There's a lot of demand for all three of those kind of properties. So when you work with the right realtors, the selling is not a problem. So when you go in and get those deals under contract now that the thing is now to the process of to select the area, the next thing is you need to get leads in it to get a list of people that you think are interested in buying those properties. So we like people that live out of state. We like people that own the property a certain kind of time. We like for certain property values of $30,000 and more. And we put this together and that's an easy filter. We have a CRM software that people can log in they can do all these selections. And then it says like there's 37,587 records. And it's like, okay, great, I want to grab 5,000 and market to those. And then there's simply from there, you can outsource it to a mailing house, the mailing house sends out the records. Or you can outsource it to a, to a company that does cold calling for you. And then again, when those records arrive and these people respond, they feed it back into your CRM and at that point you either do the value. Now the third step is then value analysis and making offers. And again, at the beginning, most people do that themselves. That's why I call it more of an active business. But as you learn that, you can start using AI for that. We're working on some AI solutions that do valuation for people for the property. You can also get a realtor to come in and do that for you. Right? And the moment you have these, then you make these offers and to have a. And you built an automated email and text follow up system that we have all built already. You built that and then you put that in place. And then once you get accepted offers, you pass it on to the realtor or you put it on certain platforms like MLS and so on, and you sell the properties. So in none of these steps there's anything to do with tenants toilets and termites. No HDTV fix and flip it. Only cost is only called land flipping. It's actually land wholesaling. But these are the steps that, yes, you should learn them yourself so that you know if somebody else does it properly or not. But the moment you learn them and the moment you have done them a couple of times, we're all in favor. We teach our coaching students to actually now go automate, outsource them, as many as impossible. And one of our coaching students recently said, Tyson Horn is his name, says, like, this is the only business I've ever found where the more money I make, the less I work.

Love it. Yeah. I think there are so many takeaways from it. Right. First of all, you have learned this system. You started from scratch. And I always talk about leverage. Right. If somebody's interested in doing this, they don't have to reinvent the wheel. They can leverage what you have done, what your experience has been on, what your coaching is. Right. So they can leverage that, literally plug themselves into that system. And second thing to leverage is what systems and process that that you have built. Right. It's almost, I mean, it's still active, but it's almost sounds like that you have automated some of this process using the CRMs, the AIs, and you know, using the external entities like, you know, those marketing houses. So you can make your life little bit easier if you want to do this actively. Right. So I love that, that part of it. Talking about leverage, do you also end up using leverage or load? You know, that can multiply your rate of returns really quickly too. Is it. Is this a land business where you can act? Do you have time to create a leverage? Do you use leverage or is it pretty much a cash buy so you can.

The first thing again, often we use these double closes, so you don't need any cash for it. But sometimes. And now we go beyond those cookie cutter deals. So the cookie cutter deals, again, is the wholesale. It's the seller financing. That's where people start with. And then. And then with the seller financing, not every deal is a $500 deal. Sometimes you get $300 a month. Sometimes you get $2,000 a month on one deal, depending on the price point of those properties. But the next level is. And that's where. That's where leverage, or at least invest our money, let's call it, comes in. One of our coaching students, she actually lives in Germany and she does deals in the United States because land flipping is 100% virtual. Like, I haven't seen any of my land deals since the year 2007. There's no reason for me to go see land, but what is there to see? Everything I can see, I can see from satellite dish, satellite images, County GIS information systems, Google Street View. There's no reason for me to go to any of these pieces of land and visit them. I do this 100% right from here, from my desk. So therefore, this lady is in Germany and she found a deal in the United States that she could have bought, that she did buy, but she was. She, the property, as is was worth a hundred thousand dollars, and she got it under contract for $60,000. So she bought it, but usually she would have just taken it and resold it for $75,000, would have made a $15,000 profit. But in this case, she saw the opportunity to actually buy it and split it into four individual pieces. And now each of those individual pieces is worth $65,000. So if you look at it, but the problem is she didn't have the $60,000 to buy it. So what she. What happens is she reached out to our coaches, she reached out to us, and we Have a huge network because we have been doing this for. For 22 years. We've been coaching this for 16 years. We have. We're the company, the coaching company with the biggest and best network out there in the country. So she needed $60,000. So her coach helped her, within a matter of a day or two, find an investor that looked at the deal, says, like, yeah, I'm happy to give you $60,000 in return for a split in the deal. I don't know what split. That's up to negotiate. Up to them to negotiate it. But with that, she was able to buy the property. Now then over a couple of months, she went through the process of splitting it into four. Already had the first one sold for $65,000. So in other words, the investor could potentially get all his money back already. His or her money back already. And now they still have three properties left which are still worth another. What is that? $195,000? That's $195,000. It's a $200,000 profit they generated from that instead of just a $15,000 profit. And that, in this case, could have come with leverage. She could have said, can somebody lend me $60,000 for that deal? And somebody in our universe would have done that, too. In this case, she chose, for whatever reason, an actual investor. So it wasn't a loan. It was an equity investment from somebody. And then they split the deal in some certain way because she's doing all the work. I don't know exactly what the split was, but either way, she's better off. Even if the split was 50, 50, she's going to make $100,000 instead of $15,000 with just a little bit more. And the investor invested 60 and walks away with 160. That's pretty good, too.

Yeah, love that. So she actually used the other kind of leverage. That's what we call it opm. Other people, money in the process made profit for them as well as for her using her expertise. Tell me about, you know, one common mistake that you see that, you know, the beginners in land flipping business or the students or the investors that they make in this business.

A common mistake is at the beginning, people offer too much for properties because they're too eager to get a deal, or they offer too little because they're, like, too afraid of making higher offers. And so really, getting those offers right at the beginning is important. And then later on, people make the mistake that they're getting, and that included myself. At one point in time, we started Believing our own press releases, as I like to say. In other words, we started to believe that we're better than we are and we started not doing the proper due diligence steps anymore. That's the only time over 5,000 deals, there was like five lots of where we saw where we lost like $1,000 per deal. That's the only time I lost money on these deals. Other than that, if you freely follow this properly, it's almost impossible. It's very, very hard to lose money because even when you have a deal under contract, our contract, the actual document, allows you to cancel the agreement unilaterally from your side anytime, for any reason. So it allows you to back out anytime for any reason. People always ask, why would they sell or sign that?

Right?

Because they're not the typical sophisticated multifamily seller. It's John Smith that has owned the property 40 years and wanted to go perhaps it's a rural lakefront property in a nice community, half an hour away from the city and a lake. And he wanted to build a house there to retire there. But now the grandkids are moved to a thousand miles the other direction. And he doesn't want to be on the lay on the lake alone. He wants to be close to the grandkids or he and his wife, so they're moving there, so they're checking this out or the other reason is that they're going, or somebody inherited the property and they have no need for the property and, and etc. Etc. So when they're there, they don't care. They're just like, hey, yeah, I don't want to pay property taxes anymore. I don't want to. I just want to get rid of this property. So they sign any agreement that you, that you want them to sign.

I love that. And you know, in the process, you actually find these deals and one of the, you know, subject and topic that you talked about, and it's very dear to me, is due diligence, right? So when even for me, when I bring investments in my real estate fund on, you know, different syndication, different asset classes, due diligence is the key for me. You know, I most of the time end up rejecting over 95% of the deals that are even coming in. So let's talk about due diligence. Can you. I mean, you know, due diligence is a topic in itself. We can probably do the entire podcast about it. But let's talk about at least the top three due diligence item that, you know, the investors should Watch out for.

Yeah, so we actually do diligence a little bit backwards because we can cancel the sale agreement anytime for any reason. We actually backload our due diligence a little bit more than I would in a multifamily property again. And since then we are multifamily operators too. We own five, six, I think apartment complexes are in different states and I'm well aware of all the complexities and the things that you need to do there. But in the land side, we actually turned it on its head because again, all we do at the beginning is if we identify some properties and people say like yeah, I'm interested in selling, make me an offer. All we do is we find out the value of the property and just roughly kind of like does it have road access and utilities and some basic things? Then we go make an offer. Once that offer is accepted, that's when we dive deeply into the, into the due diligence. Because if we find something we don't like, we can always cancel without any issues. Also, our contract, we don't even put an earnest money deposit down. So we're not even losing money on earnest deposit. There's no hundred grand earnest money deposit. Like in multifamily, zero is our standard earnest money deposit. So we lose no money. So therefore I can afford to do very little research instead go bigger, make more offers, get more things that get more deals under contract. Once I have 25 deals under contract, let me go do all that research and then I might, out of 25 on 5, I might find out that something is wrong with them. So what could be, what is the research are we doing? To answer your question, number one, we are checking every single time on Environmental Protection Agency. We don't do a phase one environmental test. That's not necessary because we usually, usually it's in zones where environmental issues are usually not an issue. Like if it's, if it's a residential infiltration, wherever the master developer of that area was already did a phase one, there's no issues there. If it's in the path of growth, it's raw land that's 20 minutes outside of town. There's nothing that happened there usually. So there's no reason to assume that something could have happened there. And if it's a 40 acre parcel, two hours of town, it's the same thing. We still though go to the epa.gov website and we go find a house in the area. Land typically doesn't have an actual address, so you need to find like a house close by. Put in the house address and the EPA will show you if any kind of environmental issues happen within a few miles off that.

Right.

So if you take a house half a mile away from the piece of land, that's good enough because it's going to show you five mile radius what's. Well, if there's any environmental things. In 5,000 deals, I've only one time I come across a property with an environmental issue and that was an infill lot in the city, was a commercial property that had a chemical factory that burned down.

Oh, wow.

I mean, that itself can tell you a lot. Right. So even when, when, when that's. That's one of the last properties I looked at. I looked at that thing because it was here in Phoenix and I was like, I'm not touching that thing because it had like, there's like still big old kind of like big canisters and things and everything that looked like chemical there. I was like, I'm not going anywhere close to that. We still flipped it, we still wholesale it, but we actually did it as an assignment. Because when you do an assignment, you don't go on title. When you do double closing, you become the owner and then you sell it again. So for five minutes you are on record as the owner with an assignment. You're not, you're just passing the deal on to the next person, which in the Environmental Protection Agency's world, if they find something the way they go and that the risk is that they decide to clean it, and for cleaning it, they're going to charge the current owner. And if the current owner has no more money, they're going to go to the prior owner. And if that person has no money, they go to the prior owner until they have the money they need to clean it. Well, if you do an assignment, you were never the owner, so they can never come after you.

Jack, right there, that tip that you just mentioned, it could, you know, for the newbies and the new investors, that tip could save them ton of money and like a big mistake. So you know that nitty gritty details comes only from the experience and what you have done so far.

Absolutely.

Number one is environment. Let's talk about two more due diligence items.

Sure. The second one is we call, we need to see road access, utilities. We go really closely. What exactly is there? If it's not there, how far it is, is it? For example, if you're doing in the western, like in Arizona, if the property is half an hour away from the city and it's Five acres. It might not have any utilities, it might have electricity, but definitely it's not going to have city sewer, city water. So how do you do that? You need to put a septic tank in there and you need to drill a well. Well, how deep are the water levels? Well, there's areas in Arizona where the water levels are 200ft and there's areas where the water level is 3,000ft. Should you know that? Yes, you should know that. But it's as simple as one phone call. It's one phone call. You simply go call the Arizona Department of Water Resources. In every state, one has a water department and ask them, hey, property is located over here. They ask you for free details where the property is and then they tell you, oh, there's a well half a mile over there, well a mile over there, well over there. And on average they're 500ft deep. Good, you know how deep the water is, right? And then you use that in your marketing too, by the way. That's one thing. And then the ultimate thing, the one of the most important things is, is what can I do on this property? Like what is it zoned for? But more than anything, what are the setbacks? What is it? Am I allowed to put mobile homes on there? Lots? Would that allow mobile homes fly off the shelves? Because there's a lot of people there 10 years from retirement, they don't have any money, they don't have, they don't have any savings, they will have to retire on a mobile home. So that's with mobile homes that allow mobile homes fly off the shelves. But also like it's not an issue if you have five acres, you have five acres, there's going to be enough space to build something. But what if you have a five thousand dollar lot just on the fringe of city, right? What are the setbacks? Because just because it's 5, 5, 5,000 square feet is 50 by 100ft. Well, you can't build your house typically all the way to the edge of the property because if your neighbor does the same thing, you have like your wall to wall. That's not what you want, right? So there's so called setbacks. So you have to be from the property lines, you have to be 15ft this way, 15ft that way, 30ft that way, 30 footprint, which gives you a building envelope. Well, what is that? Building envelope. Is that big enough to even build something? What's the minimum size, what's the maximum size of the properties, et cetera, et cetera? What are the requirements for building and those kind of things. You simply. Again, it sounds complicated but it's actually not because it's just a list of like seven, eight questions. You call the, you call one of two departments, the county in the county level, the building at the planning and zoning department or another. Many times it's also called the development services department. It's filled with a bunch of usually older guys in their 50s and 60s that are doing, they know every corner of every street in this, in this county. You give them the parcel number or the location of the property and they tell you everything you can do, everything you can't do. They give you all the specifications in a 10 minute phone call and you got all the information you have.

And these are the relationship. If you have this relationship and you maintain that, I think that's going to be beneficial for you. Love that. Thank you for unfolding those complexities in a very simple way. Again, one last question I'm going to ask before I go to my next question about your Forever Cash model is, you know, what is the biggest risk that you have seen for investors in this business?

Really the biggest risk is that if investors don't get the right training in terms of how to sell these properties, the selling can sometimes take longer than they want to. I've seen people try to go out there on their own and then have property sit there for half a year because they don't know how to list it and how to, how to find the right realtor and how to, how to properly present that property. Because land, selling land is a completely different concept than selling a house. You can't just call your neighbor's cousin that happens to have a real estate license and have him list your land because he knows he or she knows nothing about selling a piece of land. Everyone knows how to sell a house. Everyone knows you get the sunset to get the photographer in. You have it staged, you have it decluttered, you have everyone move away. You have the furniture positioned a certain way. You have, you talk about the school district and things. You get the brokers open and then et cetera, et cetera, you put it on MLS and it just. If it's a two bedroom, three bedroom, two bath, split floor plan in XYZ zip code, then everyone is looking for that. It sells quickly. Well in land you can't just say this is. People don't. These same realtors, they don't know in land, you have to describe it by what's around it. Because the future say somebody that wants to retire wants a Lot, two acre lot, half an hour from town that you can put a mobile home on there and have a dignified retirement. That person doesn't care if that property has three trees, seven trees or 12 trees. The person doesn't care if the property is gently rolling and thing but the person cares about is there space for me to put a mobile home? Am I, can I connect it to utilities? And where the heck do I eat, go grocery shopping and go to church, right? And how far am I away from the city so I can get back into town? So when you describe this property, you describe it as not as a 2 acre property with 17 trees. You'd say like this is a perfect property with a building path, a connection to utilities there, most importantly, within seven minutes you're in, in this little town where there's a grocery shop, there's a, there's a Starbucks, there is, there's a three diners and there's a McDonald's and there's a church. So if you need so and then the other direction, within 10 minutes you're at this lake. So you can do some recreational. And the entrance to the interstate is three minutes away. So in 17 and so in 20, 24 minutes you're actually back in town to see a golf, to see a game, meet your friends, etc. Etc. Now this person looks at that and says like, wow, I got my church close by, I got a grocery store close by, I got a gas station close by, I got some recreation close by. I'm back in the city in 20, 25 minutes. It feels utilities are there, it checks all my boxes. This is, I can't afford in the city because it's too expensive. Let me go buy that piece of land, put a mobile home on there and I have a dignified retirement properties. Sold.

Love it, Love it. Jack, you, you are a storyteller. You literally painted a picture of this person, this person's life in front of me and what is easy and what is difficult for him. So having an end goal in mind of your prospective buyer, that's really, really important. Thank you for again spelling so that.

And that's what people do wrong. They don't understand that so they're putting something out there and that a property just sits there and doesn't sell. Sometimes we even go on the open market, buy properties that have been listed for 12 months and make them low offers, get those properties, redo the listing, put it right back on the market and sell it for twice as much in a couple of weeks, change nothing on the property change, only the marketing. And that's what people sometimes do wrong if they don't get the proper training.

Love it. Love it. Let's talk about outside of the land flipping, the Forever Cash. Is it tied to the land business as well or how do you define or promote your Forever Cash model?

It's indirectly tied to it because it's really the Forever Cash. And I love what you said at the beginning that we don't necessarily know when we come here to this country. We don't know the wealth principles of this world. We don't know how, how this worked. Like, my dad is a middle school teacher, retired. My mom's a stay at home mom. Right. My, my wife's mom is elementary school teacher. His dad passed away when she was nine months old. Right? So they never, never remarried. So we don't know how to wealth. We didn't know how wealth was built, but we figured it out and I wrote a book, 2013, which is out of print, but you can buy used copies on Amazon. We'll have to reprint it at some point of time, but currently it's out of print. It's called Forever Cash. And really it's our wealth philosophy. So what I say is there's three types of cash. Like if you have a dollar bill, right? The way that the dollar bill is obviously the same, but there's quality in how that cash is being generated. So let's look at that. A job is what I call one time cash. Because you work eight hours, you get paid for eight hours. People might say, but Jack, I get paid every week. Well, yes, try to not show up for a week and see if you still get paid. No, you get fired, right? So therefore it's one time cash. You work a week, get paid for a week. You work a month, you get paid for a month. It's one time.

Yeah, it's time, time.

It's directly tied to the time, right? Or even it's a project. You say like, I'm gonna do this project. This project gonna, I'm gonna charge you $10,000. Once the project is done, it's done. So it's tied to time, it's time to effort. It's. But it only comes once and then it's done. So that's why the, that's why I call it one time cash. Because you do the work and you only get paid once. So land a land. There's different qualities of one time cash. A job is one quality. Working at McDonald's is the lowest quality. Working as an attorney and charging 500 an hour, it's a higher quality. Land flipping is also one time cash, but you're much higher quality because if you work six hours on a deal that makes you $50,000, then you just had an average income of $8,000 per hour. Yep, that's way better than every attorney out there. And if you can scale it, you can do 40, 50, 100 of them can make a million dollars a year. That's an equivalent of 500 of. That's an equivalent of a million dollars is $500 an hour. If you make $2 million, that's $1,000 an hour, the equivalent. But you don't work 2,000 hours. You can do a million dollars in perhaps 20 hours a week. So now your income is $2,000 an hour. You get my point. But it's still one time cash. Just a higher, higher, higher level one time cash. Well, once you transition to, and that's why I'm saying indirect, once you transition to seller financing now or I give you a loan and you pay me five for five years and you pay it off or I get a contract for one year that I'm going to do certain services for one year or so. Well, that's still one time cash, but, but usually a loan is kind of thing is a, is temporary cash as I call it. That's the second quality of temporary cash. So you do the work once and you get paid again and again and again and again. But it ends. So I sell the property once and I get it as a $12,000 down payment of $500 a month for the next 14 years. So I get paid for 14 years. This is fantastic. But in 14 years I got to rebuild this, right? That's secondary cash. And the ultimate is ultimately that's why the book is called the way it is and that's why the concept is called the Way. This is forever cash. In forever cash you do the work once and you get paid forever. So the goal really is most people only live in the one time cash world. All they do is just bring in one time cash. They go to work, they get paid, they go to work, get paid, they go to work, you get paid. Some people get into something that, where they get where they get again money lending or things like that. They get into the temporary cash but very few and, and then almost nobody gets into the forever cash world because it's just like only, only even the people that do like dividend stock is a forever cash asset. So like buy Coca Cola, I Don't like Coca Cola. I haven't had a Coca Cola in 20 years. But, but if you buy the stock, Coca Cola. Warren Buffett owns so much Coca Cola stock that he makes $700 million a year in dividends from Coca Cola. He doesn't have to sell the stock, he doesn't have to do work. He just, he just bought the stock and now he gets, he gets cash flow. Same thing with, with, with multifamily, with single family, with rental properties. And that's the reason why we bought multifamily. That's my reason. When 2009 came along, we started the land flipping. 2003 in 2009 came along, we started realizing, oh my God, we built one time cash land flips. We built seller financing up to $71,000 a month. And then 2009 hits and we're like, oh my God, America is for sale. And we started buying these rental houses and then we started transitioning into multifamily and we're doing syndication because if you have a multifamily deal that you can hold on forever. And we have several properties that we own without our investors, that we just own and that the holding horizon is forever. It's Forever Cash. We bought it once we went to the qualification effort, once we went to the, we raised the money from one time Cash. So we're using, in essence, we're using our cash machine. It's another concept for one time cash, our cash machine, our land flipping to create the money. And then instead of spending the money, we roll that money into Forever Cash assets and we keeping it there forever. And so we have multiple properties built up when we continuously put money to the side, move it over, put money on the side, move it over to eventually when we retire. And that's the problem for most people. When they retire, they want their job stop. Income stops and they're retired. They're relying on the only Forever Cash asset that they have, which is Social Security in Social, Social Security there it's under, it's under, they have no control. So we built, we've built this such that we, we make our money here, move it over there. And then the philosophy is very simply, well, to accelerate that, what do you got to do? You got to increase your income capabilities. Do not increase your expenses, just increase the income, protect it from taxes and move as much as possible over into the, into the third category, the Forever Cash category. And then build that up, optimize that, improve that and build it up more and more and more and more and soon enough you have one income source, two income source, five income source, 10 income sources, 100 income sources. And soon enough you don't even need the one time cash anymore because all your income can come from the forever cash.

That is $1 million knowledge right there. I love that Jack. Absolutely. It's phenomenal how you have kind of created a flywheel of this cash. The same dollar moving from that one time cash to that temporary cash and now going into the forever cash. So kudos for building that and you know, kind of enlightening our listeners today to start thinking about on those lines because the moment they stop working, everything is just going to stop. So you know, it's not just about that one bucket which most of the listeners would have it, but building that temporary bucket to start with and then moving to that forever cash. I talk about infinite banking a lot and that you know, to from related to what conversation that you are having. It feels like that's another aspect of building that kind of an infinite cash and creating that generational wealth as well. So thank you for adding, you know, the limelight on that. Truly appreciate it with that. I mean we have been talking for a long time. I can continue. Looks like you're an educator, true educator at heart. Have so much golden nuggets to add but unfortunately our time is coming to close. How can they get in touch with you when you know they want to reach out and you know, try out their, their dibs at this land flipp business.

So the easiest way is to simply go to the website www.land profit fun like fun like having fun. F u n landprofitfun.com and simply when you go there you can download a 30 day blueprint which is a document that, that easy to read short but it's, it's detailed, very very detailed. It's like almost 30 pages and it, it shows you exactly what you need. How to lay out your own land business over a 30 day process to get to start it from scratch and, and, and build that one time cash for and temporary cash and build that cash machine. Really bring that income up if that's what, what you identify as the number one step you need to do to build forever cash anyway and we'll put.

The link in the show notes as well so that you don't, you know, miss out even if you're driving or something, you're not taking a note of this.

And in addition I also have my own podcast. I have a podcast under Jack Bosch and YouTube but also podcast for it's called the Jack Bosch show. And Bosch is with B O S C H. So there's like, like the washers and dryers and spark plugs and stuff like that, but nothing to do with the company unfortunately. But yeah, so that's, that's, those are a couple things.

With that we have like a final couple of rounds of our show after your information. It's a Think Outside the Stocks podcast. So we know it goes without saying that I have to ask you this question to you that we understand your land strategy. You know, probably you are investing and saving and doing different asset management strategies or estate planning strategies. So, you know, I want to take a pause here and I want to ask you for our listeners that how do you, Jack Bosh thinks outside the stocks?

So I've never been a stock guy because for some reason every time I invest in stock, the next thing that happens is they go down. It's just like, I'm just like, I like to keep it with Warren Buffett's advice that instead of like spreading all your eggs in different baskets, if you're good at one thing, put all your eggs. I like to put all my eggs into real estate and watch real estate really, really closely. And that's what Warren Buffett does. He's like, no, he just has a very focused portfolio. He just watches this very, very closely. That's what I do. And every time I deviate from that, I lose money. So do I have some stocks? Yes, for my 17 year old daughter. I set up an account right now. I put a certain amount of money, a little bit in every month and I basically put it in an index fund and then I bought a couple of stocks for her and sure enough, they right away went down the drain. So it's like, and I love Warren Buffett, love following him. So stock, I have some crypto, we have done good, well with crypto. Bought it early enough to make a little bit of an impact. But I'm careful, I don't know anything about it. I'm not in control. So I think as an entrepreneur I like to be in control and in the stock market I'm not. So I like to buy assets that I can be more in control of and that's how I invest outside of the stock market.

I love it. So any, any other asset management, estate planning, kind of a family generational wealth strategies that you employ?

Sure, yeah. So we have a family trust, of course, and we also have a combination with additional trusts, some irrevocable, some revocable, created a nice strategy. But the biggest thing is the biggest other benefit of investing in things like as you well know, because you do that of course yourself doing things like multifamily investment is. Is like the. This the tax benefits it has because like again if you're making a, if you're having, if you're cranking up your income over here on the forever on the one time on the cash machine side and the one time cash side thing, what comes with the downside is that your taxes also go up. So the way another reason why we move money into particularly multifamily is that through cost segregation studies and overall depreciation we get so much depreciation that it offsets a lot of the income over there. So as a result we actually pay fairly low amount legally a fairly low amount of taxes while still at the same time building up our net worth and building up our assets. And that is like to me taxes are not boring. Neither are they frustrating. They're fascinating because there's so much things you can do to protect yourself from paying Uncle Sam. But the number one thing you need to do for that is you need to add at least an LLC or you need to be your own boss of some kind of form. Because if you're W2 employee, you can't do anything the moment you step outside of the W employee. And it doesn't mean you have to quit your job. You can have a llc, a business in addition to it part time. You can take so much, you can write off so much stuff that it will blow you away.

Yeah, yeah. The W2, they pay taxes first and then have expenses. And the biggest part of the business is you pay expenses first and then you pay taxes. Thank you so much for highlighting that because you know taxes, the more money that you keep is more money can you can grow in future. So it's not just the leakage that you have right now that's very important aspect. So with that we have come to our final round and you know it's going to be very quick. Jack, I appreciate your patience so far. It's a rapid fire question, just you know, quick questions and like you know, 60 second answer probably this is some something fun. So are you ready for the rapid fire?

I'm ready for it. I'm a little scared but I'm ready. Just kidding.

Absolutely. The best book that has changed your life and has been a turn turning point for you.

Good question. I'm an avid reader and there's so many books that have had a huge impact on me and I Want to use the same one that everyone else uses, particularly in the real estate space. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with. I think it was called the One Minute Millionaire or something like that. Forgot the mark. Victor Hansen or Robert G. Allen or something like that is the author.

I look it up, I'll look it up.

And it's a book from the 90s or so. But when we were starting to get into this business, what I call like it's a little bit like the itty bitty Shitty committee, excuse my language. Like what's between your ears?

There is a voice in your head.

There's a voice that constantly doubts you and constantly say, like, what are you doing? You're doing well. You have gotten three promotions in your job over the last three years. Why are you, when you're looking to break out. Come on, just go back to what you're saying. Like, what do you think you're like all of a sudden this real estate guy, this real estate expert. Just, just go back to what you know best. And this kind of voice. If you're not, if you don't have the ability to tap into a motivational source and an ongoing basis. They say motivation is like deodorant. You best applied daily. You, you, you, you just kind of lose, lose track. You're going to give up on your dreams. And, and that book and a couple of other books from Mark Rich Johansson slash Robert G. Allen and so on really helped me through those times because I kept reading them and they kept like bringing me up and kept, kept pulling me up again. It's like, no, let's keep going, let's keep going, let's keep going. And those were in the times before social media and all those kind of things. Today there's Facebook groups that are supportive and things like that. And we made it a big point that we created a Facebook group in our coaching company that's open to the public. Nonprofit nation, it's called. That is so supportive of everyone. We answering questions because I don't want anyone else to have that same kind of experience that, that you're just. Once you want to break out, you're alone. You don't know what to think. Your co workers don't understand. Your family often doesn't understand. They're like, what are you doing? And you gotta be able to plug into something. And that's one of the books that was helpful for me.

Mindset. Mindset is everything. Unless you don't stop, unless you become a best version of yourself. I think That's a book turned into the best advice at the end of this show. The next question I'm going to ask is if they made a movie about your life, you know, who do you think will play you?

Movie about my life? I don't know.

That'll be an interesting movie.

Jai, who would be the movie about my life? Who could think like I would hope George Clooney. At least I have the same beard. But, but he has obviously looks much better than I do I suspect. George Clooney. Why not?

Yeah, I love, you know, watching John. I would love to see George Clooney talking about land and coaching and education as passionately as you. The last question.

Certainly. He's certainly married to somebody similar smart as I am. Michelle is like the smarter one of us. She's the co founder of our company. She's done everything. She's a powerhouse. And so when George Clooney found his second, his other other half, you finally settled with somebody super smart, super accomplished. Well, that's Michelle living the life.

You're living the life. At least half of it. That's, that's fantastic. Final question. More time or more money?

More time. That's the one thing I realized that the, the people who are not wealthy, they're willing, they value their time way less than their money. So they're willing to spend their time time to save money. Not even to make money. They're willing to spend their time to save money. So they're driving five miles and waiting five cars down the road at Costco to save 10 cents on their, on their gas. Nothing wrong with that. If you're on a fixed income, that's okay because you have 10, they have more time than you have money. But, but if you want to be the wealthy, they spend their invest their money to save time. Like the reason why people have a private jet not as because more comfortable, it's because they, they got to go to three different meetings in three different states at the same day to help their companies make another million dollars. And they're jumping from place to place and if they would be going with public travel with American Airlines, they would take three days for what they can do in one day and as a result they can spend two days with their family. So it's, it's. People like the wealthy understand that you invest money to collapse time, to shrink time, to accelerate time to get to the result much, much faster because time is the most important asset you have. And health of course.

Wow. Wow. On that note, I mean this is the end of the show. And you know that is the biggest, biggest advice I think listeners, you know the time and learn the cost of your time, the value of your time. On that note, Jack, I really, truly appreciate you being here and you know you have given so much to think about, not just about the land, but so much to think about in our own lives. Listeners, you got to go back and listen to this episode because we talk about mindset, we talk about opportunities, we talk about challenging year status quo and creating that, you know, kind of a cyclic income. Not just exchanging time with money, but there's so many things if you're comfortable doing what you're doing, challenge that. Because that's the challenge that has moved needle for me. That's the challenge that has moved needle significantly for Jack and truly, truly appreciate Jack you being here. Thank you so much again being on my show.

Thank you for having me.

Thanks for tuning in to the Think Outside the Stocks podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like and subscribe. MADVI is on a mission to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time. With a thousand thousand more to go, we hope you'll be a part of this vision. Please join our growing community and to get your journey started, visit thinkoutsidethestocks.com to download your free guide on active income with passive real estate investments. If you learn something new, please share it with one person today. And if you have 60 seconds, please leave us an Apple review to help us reach more people like you. Tune in for the next episode.