EP19: Financial Planner Turned Infinite Banking Believer, with Industry Expert Kim Butler

I think it's important when you're looking at how the life insurance is going to help all your other assets to be conscious not only of the cash value but also of the death benefit. So in the Live youe Life Insurance book in part two, we cover utilizing or spending or using your death benefit while you're living.

Are you frustrated watching your hard earned money ride the knee jerking Wall street roller coaster? Are you looking to diversify into alternate investments and set them on autopilot to achieve financial freedom? It's time to learn the ways of the wealthy. It's time to Think Outside the Stocks with your host, Madhvi Jain, an immigrant from India and ex IT professional who will bring you industry experts to illustrate a passive and holistic financial approach to build not just passive income, but also your generational wealth. Madvi is on a mission to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time. And a thousand more to go. Are you going to be part of this vision? And now, without further ado, here is the host of Think Outside the Stocks, Madhvi Jain.

Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to Think Outside the Stocks, another podcast episode filled with knowledge and expertise from our new guest, Kim Butler. Kim Butler, by the way, is my idol. She has been doing incredible work in this space. So Kim, first of all, welcome to Think Outside the Stocks.

Thank you. Marhavi, always a joy to talk with you.

Thank you so much Kim. I'm so excited to have you here and listeners, if you want to know why I'm excited to have Kim here. First of all, she is one no nonsense kind of a person. She's very driven by the facts and numbers and super analytical about it. She and her husband have created this tremendous systems around education which is focused baseline is on numbers. So, so that's the first thing I really get attracted to their strategy. So quick thing, quick introduction about Kim and you all know that I like to introduce my guest with three fun facts. So first fun fact about Kim that she is an author of six financial books, not one, not two, but six financial books, including Amazon bestseller Live your Life Insurance, which is going to be my favorite topic and that topic our discussion today. And she also actually was a Series 7 license holder and in 1990 she surrendered that and the whole financial planning world because she just got so restless about the strategies that were being applied in that world. And Kim, we will talk a little bit more about that further. But she actually started a movement called Prosperity Thinkers with her husband and which is a nonprofit with prosperity economics. And that's Actually where she believes in bringing that typical out of the box strategies outside of the financial planning and creating the wealth without Wall street, which is very much alignment what as think outside this talks we believe in. The next fun fact about Kim is that she's also been recommended by noteworthy people here like Robert Kiyosaki, Tom Willwright and Patrick Donahue, who's the founder of Paradigm Life that I'm associated with as well. Right. So with that, it's a great intro. Kim, I am so honored to have you here and just in awe of what you have done and what you are doing. And you are especially the theory behind what financial freed means to you and what no retirement means to you. So let's dive into. Are you ready for it?

Absolutely. You dig in with your questions. I love playing Q and A.

Absolutely. So first of all, let's go back to that 1999 era and tell us about what made you that restless, you know, about the whole industry, the financial planning industry.

Well, let's remember that this was before computers. And so we were, we, you know, I've always worked with a team, so it's always more than me. But we were presenting these hundred page financial plans to people and I knew that I had gone in the back room and tweaked them, changing the assumptions so that the document itself would look decent. Things like changing inflation rates and interest rates and investment rates and savings rates, you know, I mean, the million assumptions that go into them, tax rates, et cetera. And I just was not okay with that. It was a pit in my stomach every single time I was handing these beautiful documents to people, number one, because I knew they were going in the garbage can within a few months anyway. And number two, I knew they were wrong the moment they were coming off the printer because of the assumptions that could get changed. And I just really was not okay with it. It was a horrible pit in my stomach, if you will. And so I had had a background in banking and I started to just go back. Of my very successful clients, some had purchased life insurance from us, some had done other things with us and really talked to them. And none of them had ever done financial planning, number one. Number two, none of them were super successful monetarily by their stocks, bonds and mutual funds. It was all either real estate or businesses or intellectual property or what have you. And so it doesn't take a whole lot to put two and two together there that maybe there's a better way. And so we've since coined the term prosperity economics and the prosperity Economics movement. Nevertheless, it truly is curated from economic principles that have existed since literally time began. I mean, you can read books like the Richest man in Babylon and distill from it things about life insurance, things about real estate, things about saving money, not investing money, things that are just not talked about in the typical financial industry today.

You bring up a very interesting point, Kim. I think what happened with you, exactly what happened with me when I left my corporate job and just, I mean this is before think outside the stocks, the reason I formed it, right. That I found that, you know, in that alternate world, people are doing over and over the same strategies which are successful. So here is what I noticed that you know, there is a generation like us, especially the first generation immigrant who started from scratch, become wealthy in our own right, from scratch, from our own effort. So this new millionaire category, they don't know what the wealthy of this country has been doing over and over, generation after generation. And that's exactly what looks like that you found out. So instead of like reinventing that wheel, let's just plug into their tools and their structure and let's just bring that back into ordinary people. Right? So let's talk about that. What are the tools of those wealthy if you pick up say life insurance? Right. So what did you notice that? How are they creating this strategy generation after generation that you just don't see that common people are doing it?

Well, the real estate, without a doubt, and typically higher level, right. So it's not, oh, I have a couple Airbnbs, it's I have a apartment building or you know, an office building or what have you, but not always everybody starts somewhere. It's without a doubt income orientation in its effort. So cash flow in real estate, additionally, businesses, of course, again, the value of the businesses, the value of the cash flow, not necessarily that there's some big scale buyout in the future, but more just so that there's a lot of income being driven and then, gosh, the list is endless beyond that. But I think those are the two main categories of building wealth. And then you have this whole area of protecting that wealth.

Right?

And so this is what's nice about the life insurance is it works really, really well if you have millions and billions, but it also works really well for the layperson that maybe can't right away buy an apartment building or can't right away start a business, but just has, good heavens, if, if they're in their 20s, they just need to have like 2 to 500 bucks a month to be able to put away. You know, if they're in their 30s or 40s, it needs to be a little bit more than that. But the basic person can start with a monthly contribution and get good results using frankly, a very boring yet very effective product called Whole Life Insurance. Let's be clear for your listeners. We're not talking about Index, Universal Life or Variable Life or any of the hybrids. We're talking about a product that's been around like two to six hundred years. If you look at its various starting points back in Europe, it was easily six, seven hundred years ago.

Wow.

And it just does its job.

Yeah, I think I love that. That's the strategy. When I realized and I found out and I was mind blown, I was actually, you know, to be honest, I was very, very skeptical about it.

I was too.

And then when that happens, I go back to my numbers, I put my charts in there and I do the analysis and I was mind blown. I was like, oh my God, this works. And that's the reason why I became an advisor and educating and implementing it for people. So let's talk about that. One of the things that I have, I'm also in the real estate world, right. I'm this alternative investment world. So what I've seen people is just like having tunnel vision about investing. So investing, creating that passive income cash flow, which is essential, by the way, but you know, beyond that, the financial freedom, there is no kind of a holistic perspective. And that's what I like. With the banking structure, with the life insurance that you are creating that safe savings. Savings and investing is two different buckets. While you're making your savings efficient, you are focusing on growing, like you said, preserving and protecting and then passing that to the next generation. So that's kind of a paradigm shift when it comes to the life insurance. So let's talk about that. You know, why are people like you and me who are super analytical and people who are, you know, who have not explored into this world are skeptical about it. And to change that mindset, the paradigm shift, what are these things that you find out that instead of just buying term and investing in dress, why are you and me big proponent of this whole life insurance system?

Well, as you mentioned earlier, it does come down to numerical proof. I mean, we can all say we buy on emotions and, you know, we need to look at the strategy, which are things that we do. But the fact is the product still comes down to numerical proof. And so the paradigm shift occurred for me when I was able to get a hold of my husband's suite of calculators, which is called Truth Concepts.

I love those, by the way.

Yes, you were kind enough to include me in his ability, but it's really his ability. I'm super conceptual. He's the numerical one. And I, before we were married, long before we were married, I, like you, came to the truth training. I purchased the Truth Concept suite of calculators. Now this is mostly for advisors. A layperson wouldn't necessarily purchase it, but as you also know, we have had our clients purchase it. And more importantly, Mojave, as you also know, we have clients come to the truth training. What industry is comfortable having their clients come to the inside training that is offered? I mean, that's pretty rare. And so what Truth Concepts proved to me numerically without a shadow of a doubt is that whole life insurance and its cash value can help us while we're building our wealth and protecting it. And then whole life insurance and its guaranteed permanent death benefit can help us while we're distributing our wealth. And those two elements are so critical. It's really like two accounts and it does two jobs. And because death is a guaranteed event, unless somebody knows something that I don't, it's important that we link up a guaranteed payment to that guaranteed event. And because of that, we can bring the presence of that value into our lives while we're living. Which is kind of interesting if you look at the name of the product, you know, it is called whole life insurance. It's not called death insurance.

Yeah.

When in actuality term life insurance should be called death insurance. And term life insurance is wonderful. Everybody should own lots and lots of it. The challenge is they should also own whole life.

Right. That's a great point of view that you bring in Kim, that it's not called a death insurance, it's called a life insurance. And the concept of the banking, when you are building it and you are utilizing it and you don't have to wait to utilize it. Right. You can start utilizing it as you are building it too. So that's the concept that was. I was personally very fascinated by to live that insurance. And by the way, I love your book. That book was one of my early reads by the way. It's a quick read. It's easy to understand the live your life insurance. And listeners if you are listening, that's even available on audible. So if you want to drive and listen to it, that's a great book. So going coming back to our track. Right. That the life insurance part of it, Right. You and me talk about it. A specific product, whole life insurance that's high dividend paying. It's not your ordinary life insurance. Definitely not Iul vul any of those things. Right. So why do typical life insurance agent don't tell you about this? They don't explain you about this? Is that the lack of understanding in education from their part or what is it in your experience that you have seen what's the percent of people who actually know, understand and implement this particular concept?

It's a great question. I wish I knew the answer, frankly, all I can do is guess at it because it befuddles me too. But I think a lot of it comes from the training that the life insurance companies put on. And frankly, a lot of the people that work at life insurance companies do not fully understand their product.

Right.

And they've been taught information from somebody that has maybe created the product or maybe is behind the legal aspect of the product that is accurate and correct to the degree that it can be around the particular product. But these people have never actually helped owners and users of the product purchase the product, make use of it, utilize it in their lives, both the cash value and the death benefit, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so it's just a space that unfortunately has so much misinformation and, you know, it's not really a very fun space. I mean, who wants to talk about life insurance, right? Yet, holy cow, have we seen an explosion of YouTubers who think they have some knowledge around the life insurance arena and you can tell if you know even a little bit when you start to listen to them, how in accurate they are in their information. And it always makes me so sad, like I'm grateful that they're getting the idea out there in the marketplace, but the fact that the information is wrong or possibly gray when it does not need to be, when it can be absolutely black and white. Here are the clear pros, here are the clear cons. Yeah, it is important to cover them both. And I think just a lot of times it's a lack of education, a lack of knowledge. And then of course, there are some people that do know better, but choose not to acknowledge it or share it or speak of it for whatever their reasons are.

Yeah. And definitely the commission kind of pays the big part of it. Right. If you structure the banking right, the commission is slashed into like, you know, 1 3rd or 1 4th. Right. So who would want as a life insurance agent to slash their commissions? So on that front, we are talking about that understanding the knowledge of the product so here is, when I talk to my clients, I insist on. I mean sometimes they will come with an IUL illustration and stuff like that is like showing this tremendous performance. And I talked to them that okay, let's try to understand the product. How much of the product do you understand? And I always say to them that don't walk into something that you don't completely understand. And then I kind of explained that IUL going down to that age 75 or everything, right. And there's that aha moment that I see that they have. So that's what I think. Sometimes I feel I don't even know if the agents understand the drawbacks of this product because there's just, you know, so many multi level marketing kind of companies that exist selling IUL too. So my purpose is truly that let me educate what not to do first and then what to do. Right. I'm here to do that. Why do you think you know people? I mean, of course they sell the banking concept as IUL vul different products. So on a high level, why do you think that that's not a product of choice if you want to this sustainable wealth that we are kind of emphasizing on again and again?

Well, even if you read back in Nelson Nash's early days, you know, I can't remember, it's in the Becoming youg Own Banker book specifically. But he only recommends dividend paying whole life insurance and these newer hybrid products. All you have to do is first of all take a look at the 75 page illustration that you got as opposed to like 12 pages for whole life and go through the guarantees. I am working with a client right now and he says, well, my iui. My IUL guy says his insurance is permanent. And I said, well, let's look at the definition of permanent and then go find on the illustration. If this product earn no Money, like the 0% rate of return, which is on an IUL or a UL or a VUL illustration, the variable universal life, what does it do when you're 75 or 80 and it very clearly turns to two big zeros. Zero cash value, zero death benefit. That is not the definition of permanent. And so I think if you'll just dig a little bit. And of course no consumer wants to do that because the illustrations have a whole bunch of language that nobody's familiar with. Consumers are resistant to learn about it. You know, it's funny to me, always people love learning all the definitions that they need to learn for stock market investing and you know, real estate investing and derivatives. You Know, they learn all these fancy terms and experience knowledge and strategies and different types of products. They learn all this stuff. But then when it comes to life insurance, they don't want to learn anything.

Right, right.

Which I can't ever understand, but I guess in a way that I can. You know, when I think back to my earlier days, it, it took quite a few times of seeing the numbers and seeing the numbers and seeing the numbers before I was able to make that paradigm shift and the learning that occurs and you know, let's be frank, it's not a sexy product. Whole life is incredibly boring, incredibly conservative and permanent and guaranteed. And us human beings aren't into that. We're into sexy and cool and fast and you know, all this other stuff which the universal life and the variable life and the index life, all promise. Yes, but they do not perform long term, or at least not that I have seen.

Yeah, no, you, that's an excellent point, Kim. When you talk the word guarantees, right? We know that in investing world, in any other world, we cannot put that word. We can say projected, we can say target, we can say multiple things, but we can never say the word guaranteed. But here in the only life contract that you will see actual the guarantees, the guaranteed table is based on that certain percent in your life and versus the IULs and Vul. Their guarantees, like you said, are going down to that big too big zero. And this is what I tell my clients, that you want to live your emergency stack or your money, the hard earned money that you have based on that guarantees, not on a hope. What the illustration on the other hand of any of these products are showing is a hope. And if they do, great, that's great, that's awesome. But that's not the reality of those products, right? So that's the saddest part for me that people do not understand that. And based on hope, they just, you know, take that decisions. I say that, you know, and you might agree that life insurance and the investments are two different things put together that has kind of created a malicious of, you know, a product which doesn't even perform great with investment and definitely does not perform well for the life insurance part. What do you think?

Well, it is so evident to me, you know, if you just looked at a human being and they have two legs and they're equal and they both support the body, that's really what people want in their savings and their investments. But as we know, everybody focuses on the investments first. And you have these kids coming out of school, 22 years old, no liquid money that are being told to max out their 401k, they lock up money until they're 59 and a half, when they don't even have an emergency fund yet.

Right.

And so as you and I were talking just before the podcast, we have now a structure that can really help people build their emergency funds. It's called Currents. And. And I'll introduce it to you a little bit more, more thoroughly. Yeah. Later. But it, like I said, it will help people automatically build their emergency fund. And then their life insurance cash value becomes their opportunity fund. And so whether it's an opportunity to buy investment, real estate, an opportunity to buy a business, opportunity to make down payment on a home, whatever it is, there are endless opportunities. And Nelson Nash has a quote that is so apropos for this conversation, which is, when you're in a position of cash, opportunities will seek you out.

Yeah.

And so I know so many people that have had their cash value built for years and years. Boring. But it's that strong certain leg while their investments are over here on the other leg and they're doing whatever they're doing. And it's those two together that perform a very strong foundation for the body, if you will, of their, that person's life and their own personal economy. And the bigger one's economy is the bigger the opportunity fund should be. So then it really comes down to the question of where are you going to store your cash? And the mutual life insurance companies. So we're talking Guardian, Mass Mutual, New York Life, Northwestern Mutual, Foresters Mutual Trust, Penn Mutual, Lafayette. You know, there's probably about 20 of them.

Right.

Those are the safest financial institutions in the United States. And actually similar ones are up in Canada. And they just do the job of storing cash better than any other place. And so the more real estate you have, the more businesses you have, the more alternative investments you have, the more you want to have the liquidity that enables you to overcome emergencies and take advantage of opportunities.

Great point, Kim. I think that opportunity cost that you are talking about, that's really essential to think about. And we have seen historically, you know, wealthy of America have seen that, including Walt Disney, Jesse Penny, they have used this fund which is like what they call dry powder. Right. 2008. And now it's around the corner too. We are going to start see actually a good investment opportunity in real estate pretty soon and it's already happening. So to have that dry powder at hand to implement and to push and immediately accessible. Right. It's just you turn around you ask them, there is no questions are, there's no credit check, there is no closing cost per se. You just have that access immediately and you can plunge that into market and get that opportunity cost and backed by this Mutual companies has been existing, have been existing hundreds of years like you said. It's interesting. I have had clients who I explained it and they were about to implement and they went to their financial planners and they said, oh, what is this? We have never heard about it. And I'm very interested to know that as a banking institution, where do they have their money? So that's very interesting to find out. Right, Kim, that, you know, actually when they say FDIC insured, where do they keep that? You know, the money that the banks are putting as a safe bucket?

The answer is the life insurance industry.

Yeah, absolutely.

Banks have something that's called tier one capital and that is money stored to protect the bank and be the foundation for the bank. And it is usually in the life insurance companies. You know what else is interesting is most large real estate transactions are financed by life insurance companies.

Yeah.

If you interview like somebody from Marx's Melachap or some large company that's doing big investment real estate like hotels and apartment buildings and that kind of thing.

Right.

Most of the mortgages on those are done by the life insurance companies, not by banks.

Yeah, absolutely. And this is what we call the institutional capital. Right. There's a retail investors like people like us who are just investing as individuals and there's that institutional capital and that's where the life insurance big bucket is. So yeah, I think that's really important to know when it comes to the structure. And you specifically talked about this, you know, building the structure and using it. Can you talk a little bit more about just some basics that the listeners should keep in mind that there's a lot of myth around it, right. That oh, I need too much money or I can't use it immediately or maybe I have better use for my money right now. Can you talk about. And again, going back to your book, right. Live your life Insurance, where you literally break it down. Can you give us a little bit snapshot of that discussion here?

Sure. I think it's important when you're looking at how the life insurance is going to help all your other assets to be conscious not only of the cash value but also of the death benefit. So in the Live youe Life Insurance book in part two, we cover utilizing or spending or using your death benefit while you're living. And that's tying together those Two guarantees that I mentioned earlier, which is the guaranteed fact of death and then the guaranteed permanent chance. So it's no longer a chance. Right. When you put the word permanent in front of it, that that life insurance policy will pay out. Now, of course, this assumes that you handle it properly. You can't borrow against it. Borrow against it, never pay it back, and expect there to be a death benefit when you die. But if it's handled properly, which means you're barring against it, paying it back. Barring against it, paying it back, Burning is a pain back. That death benefit is going to play a role. So I want to introduce a term that may be new to your community. I don't know, maybe you've talked about it in the past.

Sure.

But it's human life value and that term is an economic term. It's indicative of the maximum amount of death benefit that any single person can have from any type of insurance. So it could be term insurance, group insurance, personally owned, corporately owned, you name it, it doesn't matter. Whether it's whole life, universal term, it doesn't matter. It's a total, total, total and the equivalent human life value of the dollar figure. In other words, to term the concept into a dollar figure, the equivalent is 15 to 30 times your income or 1 times your gross worth. So if you're in your 70s and 80s, it's going to be more of the 1 times growth gross worth number. So not net worth, gross work worth.

Right.

If you're in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, it's going to be more in the 15 to 30 times income number.

Yeah.

And I find that for a lot of people, that's a very surprising number. You know, somebody earns 100 grand a year and their human life value is 15 to. So 15 to 30 times a million, 5 to $3 million or somebody's worth say $15 million. That's their gross worth, meaning let's pretend they have nothing, mortgage, no debt, like everything's been paid off. Their net worth and their gross worth are the same. 15 million. Well, they can get 15 million of coverage. Well, why is that? It's because that economic concept of insurance, which is to replace something of value, that human being is building that value, maintaining that value, contributing to that value, supporting that value. And so that's why it can be insured. And bringing the two together, the cash value, which is what most people are talking about all the time, which is like the living asset with the death benefit and the permission that the presence of the death benefit Provides to do a pay down on other assets, to do a charitable remainder trust on assets, which is a way to sell property without paying capital gains tax, to do reverse mortgage on other assets. And there's two or three others that are strategy oriented that are all covered briefly in the Live youe Life Insurance book. The second part, right. Is an incredibly valuable addition that just a lot of people are not talking about.

Yeah. And this is that paradigm shift that I'm talking about, Kim. Right. Most of the times people consider life insurance and the reason that they go for the the term life insurance is they look at insurance as liability perspective that okay, if my, if I am gone, how can say for example, education gets taken care of, the homes get paid off and then maybe create a little bit cash flow for my heirs or my spouse. Right. That's the only perspective that they're talking about. And you bring in that human life value, which is an incredible concept. And that paradigm shift, it's not about what, what as you as liability needs to be covered, but you as your replacement of you, the life value replacement that needs to bring in. Because when you, your family loses you, that's not just the current, you know, income or potential, it's the future potential that they're going to lose about you. So thank you for bringing that, you know, the human life value concept in here. And that's what people, you know listeners, you need to understand that this is how when you're thinking about just growing, preserving, protecting and passing your generational wealth, at most of the times I see people saying that I have enough to pass to my heir. I do not want to pass more. Don't pass it to your heirs, put it to charitable cause, put it into a lifetime of cash flow and do a lifetime of charitable, you know, supplement under your name or you know, your charity's name. That's what I want. Want people to start thinking, encourage them about it and you bring in that point really perfectly. So with that I think as great this conversation is going on, I would have loved to talk to you more about this part. But listeners, we were talking about using the life insurance as a banking concept where you can create that guaranteed growth year after year compounded and it's a long game plan so that you can create not only a cash value that you can utilize for emergency your investing purposes in your lifetime, but you can pass also a good sized death benefit as a next generation and start building that generational wealth. That's what we were talking to Kim about. And Kim, now I would love to talk to you about what you have been working on and especially your prosperity economics. And I think you have a fun game to share with us. So let's talk about that. You are always up to something. Think brilliant.

Well, thank you so much. So for anybody that happens to be watching on video, I am showing our family legacy game. It's super simple game. It's a card game, but it teaches the idea of perpetual wealth, which is one of our books that's on Amazon and as you nicely picked up, it is available on Audibles and also on Kindle. And the family legacy game is, as I said, just super simple card game. But it is designed to help the younger generation understand these concepts. And then we do have another book that we're working on. It's called Busting the Budgeting Lies. And it's because we know that budgeting doesn't work and we finally feel like we've cracked the code on something that does. So that's called Currents, as I mentioned earlier. And it's an app plus an account. It's by invitation only. And advisors like yourself can have a a dashboard where they invite their clients in. And what Currents does is it drives savings behaviors. It's very momentum oriented, very motivational. And because it's an app plus an account, it follows the pay yourself first structure that is in books like Rich Dad, Poor dad, in books like Richest man in Babylon and other areas that talk about how critical it is even though it seems boring. If you can get the save first game down or the pay yourself first, then you don't need to budget at all and it's so much more effective.

Love that I'm going to get the hands on definitely the game and looking into app as well. Thank you so much for bringing that in. In the next segment before we go ahead, I would love to tell our audience how can they get in touch with you? How can they have access to you?

Well, I really think because you do what I do, the best place is for them to go either to Amazon if they enjoy books, either Audibles or Kindle or physical or to prosperityeconomics.org that's the place that they can buy the game. And I'll make sure that you have a link to that to put in your show notes. And the game, like I said, is instrumental. It also does go best with the book, the Perpetual wealth book.

Yeah.

And then there's a blog there and a couple other podcasts that they can listen to as well.

And you have incredible educational material. I think you are driven by that purpose and passion of the education. Right. On that note, let's talk a little bit about prosperity economics. I think we haven't had a chance to touch base on that.

Sure. So that's really curated economic thinking brought down to our own personal level. You know, the reason none of us liked economics courses in college is it was all corporate stuff. And when it's brought down to your own level of personal finance, and we understand that each individual operates in their own family economy and then of course in the larger economy of the world and you know, specifically of the US and then of course Canadians and Canada, because they're the other batch of advisors that we support, it is imperative that we understand principles. And so the prosperity economics movement has 12 specific principles that it promotes. And those are all available on prosperityeconomics.org and within that are a list of wealth shifts. So these are ideas of movements of money that somebody can implement. And then of course, products that people can buy, like whole life insurance, but also like a whole litany of others, other things that help support the economic validity of the movement of money so that you're not having to just rely on. Hopefully the stock market does well, but that you have a solid foundation and then opportunities for alternatives that are outside the stocks. Which is why your play on words is so delightful for the name of your company and your podcast. And it's a good area to just start learning on and then keep learning. And we have a YouTube channel of course as well, so however you learn best, whether people like to read or listen or watch or do, the game is the do part and then all the other places. So prosperity economics is a non profit and it's designed to continue to promote the education and ongoing learning. And human beings are either learning or dying.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that. And now with that, our next segment is think outside the stocks. So, you know, I always like to ask my expert guests that how do you, Kim, think outside the stocks and in the sense of not just that investing, but that holistic perspective about saving, investing, growing, preserving, protecting, kind of creating that family vault for yourself.

Well, I really think it begins with going on a news diet, maybe even a news fast.

Right, right, right, absolutely.

Get the typical news environment out of your brains because it's not helping you.

Right.

And then secondly, look for age old strategies. So as we know, whole life been around forever, you know, a couple hundred years, real estate forever. Look for liquidity and control. Those are some of the principles that we talk about, certainty. But also look for Uncertainty. Right. Our, you know, our lives need to have both. And so those principles are valuable. And I would encourage people to develop their own set of principles so that they can live, live their lives in what is the best aspect for them. And you know, maybe even as a family. And we talk about that in the perpetual wealth book, a family mission statement and a crest and things like that that are fun to support, that kind of thinking.

Yeah, I love that. And in the personal portfolio, if you don't mind sharing, you know, if you look at just the diversification in your portfolio, what would we see in the different asset classes? What will we see?

Yeah, well, real estate, a lot of the life insurance, of course, on the certain side. I'm a fan of bitcoin and I'm again just stating that personally. Not a recommendation at all.

Absolutely.

I personally am not interested in any other cryptos and I do like a lot of the alternative asset classes. Things like life settlements, senior life settlements, not viaticals. There's a difference there. And also the space of immediate annuities, which is a guaranteed income for life, not a deferred annuity, but an immediate annuity. Now this is not appropriate until somebody's in their 60s, 70s, even better in their 80s, but that's something that we're setting ourselves up for. And I also just want to state that I don't believe in the concept of retirement. I don't think it's good for people, socially, emotionally, physically, financially. Most people can't really handle it anyway. It is amazing what inflation does to our expenses. And besides that, we're put on earth to serve. So find work you love, keep doing it. That's part of our assets. Right. It's a human element that we bring to the table, our own God given talents. And part of my lifelong mission and purpose, if you will, is to activate lifelong service because it prevents wasted lives.

When I first met you and in person in one of this truth concept training and you were talking about this concept, I was mind blown to see how purpose driven, how service driven you are. As a reflection, I see, you know, myself doing that. So the retirement and the lifelong service, you have completely given new definition to it. Finding something that you are driven by. And you were talking about that, how you are actually building more and more expertise in this. So why would you want to leave your expertise and do a disservice by not offering them to somebody else? Right. I really truly believe in that concept. Or just staying service oriented as long as you can, you can just keep on doing that. So thank you so much for that completely different perspective, bringing that in. Going back to that think outside the stocks, right. You shared about your portfolio. What would it look like? Like, how do you create the guards for them? Right. I mean, let's talk a little bit about maybe the estate planning or things that creating that vault where it's. That protection is really, really solid and in terms of tax protection, generation protection so that it doesn't get wiled away by next generation or something. Can you talk a little bit about that?

I think so. If I understand your question, we have a layer of estate planning, so everybody should have wells. Then you have your revocable living trust. Then there's usually some level of family limited partnership. And then we also have some specialized 678 trusts that are for intellectual property and that kind of thing. And that's the sequence of legal documents that we have.

Thank you so much, Kim. And you know, listeners, you have heard a lot of new words. You know, life settlements, the trust, even the annuities. We will have experts talking about those soon, so be patient and you will hear from us on those particular topics too. With that, Kim, we are wrapping it up. And you know, our final round, it actually is a fun round, it's called a rapid fire round where I just asked three fun questions and I would love to have your response on that. How about that?

That sounds great.

Absolutely. Thank you, Kim. My first question, that what is the most fun thing that you have ever done in your life? Life?

Ocean camping. So we go on a sailboat in the British Virgin Islands, we live on it for a week and we get to snorkel every day and swim in the glorious water that's down there. And I adore it.

Oh my God, that. That sounds so beautiful. My second question, what is the maximum number of policies a client has done that you have seen that? You know, is it just one, two? How many have they done?

Over 30.

Wow, that's incredible. And you know, what's the number? If you would put the years of service that you have done and you plan to do. How many years have you been doing this?

I've been helping people about 31 or 32 years. And I just rebranded a couple years ago for another 30.

Oh my goodness, that's incredible. Well, it's a such a wonderful conversation we had with you today, Kim. I'm so grateful to have you and share your knowledge and your nuggets with our audience. Thank you so much for your time and for the incredible service that you have done and continue to do and you are also a strategic coach so it's like multi level of impact that you are doing on people's lives life. It's just incredible to see that and very very inspirational. Again thank you so much for being here.

You're welcome. It was a joy.

Thank you so much.

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