EP29: From $77m Portfolio Loss To Building Compassionate Capital - John Laine's Story

Foreclosure, bailout is kind of the general broad term. We call it compassionate capital. It was this system that helps people. We call it the four pillars, right? Stay in the house, retain most of your equity, rebuild your financial security and lower your monthly payments. Those are the four holy grails of a person in foreclosure. That's what I wanted. That's what the people in the chemo ward wanted. Like everybody, those are the four things that everybody wants.

Are you frustrated watching your hard earned money ride the knee jerking Wall street rollercoaster? Are you looking to diversify into alternate investments and set them on autopilot to achieve financial freedom? It's time to learn the ways of the wealthy. It's time to Think Outside the Stocks with your host, Madhvi Jain, an immigrant from India and ex IT professional who will bring you industry experts to illustrate a passive and holistic financial approach to build not just passive income, but also your generational wealth. Madvi is on a mission to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time. And a thousand more to go. Are you going to be part of this vision? And now, without further ado, here is the host of Think Outside the Stocks, Madhvi Jain.

Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to another episode with Think Outside the Stocks. I'm your host Madhvi Jain and we have a super, super compassionate guest with us today. That's the one word come to my mind when I think about John Lynn. But before we go ahead, I do want to mention that this is information and education purpose only. Whatever we are providing as an education on this podcast, please be sure to do your own due diligence on it. Consult your tax professionals, your lawyers, so that you can implement this strategy in your financial structure. John, welcome to Think Outside the Stocks.

Hey there. How are you? I really appreciate that warm introduction. Thank you, Mondi.

Yeah, I mean I really truly, ever since I have known you, John, you know, your compassion about what you do and what who do you do it for, it really touches my heart and I think this is today is going to be a little bit different story. We are going to talk about difficulties and how through that difficulties one can rise, you know. And John's story here goes through so many turns and still there is so many learning and so much of compassion that's coming out, what he is doing today. So I, John, I always like to introduce my guests with three interesting facts about them. So three interesting facts about John is number one, that he has seen foreclosure not once but twice in his life that is, you know, so hard, my heart just kind of sings. To even think about to go through it once and to see experience it twice, that's incredible. The second thing is that what throughout his life, I mean, he has seen humongous success, but he has seen the downside as well. Imagine losing $77 million worth of portfolio. Wow, John, I mean, look at you. You just basically, you know, when I'm talking about all these things happening and you are not just coming out of these things yourself. But the reason I talk about compassion when it comes to John is not just that he is coming out of it, but he is helping others to come out of it. So his compassionate capital is actually a system that he has created through his experience, which is a foreclosure bailout system. So now it's not just that he doesn't want to go through it, but he doesn't want anybody else to go through it. So, John, that is just amazing. And with that three interesting facts about you, I would love to welcome you to share a little bit story about you. I know you got into the business world as a child and you have got into real estate actually during one of the biggest challenges in your life. Take us through that journey. How did you start it in real estate? And, you know, where were you and what situation made you really start there?

I always tell people I fell into real estate backwards. It was never a plan, it was never a goal. Like real estate investing was not a plan at all. It was a necessity. Like really, truly it was make money or die. So for me, I ended up. Let me, let me back up a little bit. My parents, When I was 16 years old, we lived in Port Orchard, Washington, and my parents lost our house in the foreclosure. Right.

And that's the first one.

That was the first one. Right. And so we're packing up 16 years old, like high school, when you should be the most stable of your entire life. Moving trucks are coming, bank noses stuck on our door. Interest rates were well above 15%. Sidebar Note Everybody's griping about 8% interest rate. Wait till you see 18. Yeah, I mean, that was my first foray into real estate watching my parents, my mom and dad had four rental properties plus our home. In the span of a year and a half, we lost them all.

Oh my gosh.

It was just, I mean, 16 year old, essentially homeless. So that was like my first foundation of wow, real estate sucks, suck, right? I'm just, I'm mad, I'm a pissed off 16 year old and then. So going through life, everything's going well. I bought my first house, I bought my second house. Everything's kind of like I'm doing married, doing the normal things you do. You get a job, you get married, you buy a house. And then at about 31, I started getting sick. Didn't know what was going on. Head started hurting, really super nauseous. Started gaining a lot of weight. And all of a sudden I get diagnosed somewhere. Early April of 2001, I got diagnosed with a golf ball sized brain tumor.

Oh my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

It was kind of hell. Here I am, like back in the day. I'm a big hiker, I'm a big backpacker. I love bicycling. I was very active. Right. And all of a sudden I'm not allowed to walk 500ft. All of a sudden I'm spending 18 months in a hospital bed or a hospital chair or being carted to. Yeah. I mean, so somewhere, I don't know, a couple of months later, after diagnosis, we got our first missed mortgage payment. And then the second, and then the third. My doctor bills were 20, 30, $50,000. And I mean 200. And I remember this number vividly. $222 for one day's worth of medicine. Really?

Oh, my God. I mean, look at you here. You are a backbone of your household and now you are sick with enormous amount of medical bills and now the mortgage payments falling behind. So it just must have kind of felt like, you know, just the walls are closing on you.

Oh, yeah. It was hell. There is no other way to describe it. You have this mindset of you work hard, you get your 401k, you start creating a life, your early 30s, you're invincible, right? You're. I was strong physically, mentally, and all of a sudden none of that matters. Right. The pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality that I had been bred into my whole life just vanished. You couldn't, right? Yeah. Early September of 2001, I was still in my home. I remember that. But somewhere in early October, I was homeless.

Oh my God.

The bank stole my house. I went into foreclosure. The bank stole my house. And my house was worth at the time is about $250,000. And we owed about 175.

Right, right.

$75,000 worth of equity. Because remember, this is my second house.

Right.

I had enough money to put for a down payment. I had kind of gone into this a little bit and I'd had some down payment. And I was working hard, and it was my equity.

Right.

And the house went to auction 175, lost it all. And I'm literally dying. I'm on morphine, Vicodin and oxy on a regular and routine basis. I have headaches that will basically blind me. And the 93% fatality expectation.

I just can't even begin to think about this. I mean, here everything is going well, and that one thing, the one thing that happens and everything just comes tumbling down. It's like a house of cards. And here you are, you have such a bad experience in real estate, you're going through the second foreclosure. And then, then what makes you really think about real estate is that. That point that you actually got into real estate and start doing something about it, how, you know, just to build that income.

My choice was either make a lot of money or die.

Oh, my God.

There are. There's no more clear message.

I think that's really important to share because a lot of people who are, you know, everything is going on well, they think that nothing needs to be changed. This is what it needs to be. But we are big proponent of starting to create that passive income. And why is it needed? Right. If you have that alternate income created, at least some of it, something like this, there's a support system. So tell us that, you know, from that situation, how did real estate actually helped you to just rise from that situation?

Robert Allen, like one of the great grandfathers of the personal development real estate investment, saved my life. Like, I'm really clear about. I saw a late night infomercial and he's like, come to this seminar. And friend of mine helped me to go to the seminar, and I learned about real estate. And literally from a hospital bed, I did my first transaction. Like, I went to the real estate training in late October, and by early December, I had a $25,000 check in my hand. I mean, I'd sold shoes, right? I'm a professional shoe salesman. Not a glamorous job, not a great job. I made 36, 40 grand a year selling shoes, and I made 25 grand in less than six weeks, 20 total hours to do that deal. And yeah, I was hooked on real estate from then on.

So that's encouraging. Then that's where your journey of wholesaling and fix and flips really started, right?

Yeah, well, and a lot of foreclosure bailout stuff too, right? So foreclosure bailout is kind of a general broad term. We call it compassionate capital. It was this System that helps people. We call it the four pillars, right? Stay in the house, retain most of your equity, right? Rebuild your financial security and lower your monthly payments. Those are the four holy grails of a person in foreclosure. That's what I wanted, right? That's what the people in the chemo ward wanted, like everybody. Those are the four things that everybody wants.

So let's talk about that right now. You know about the compassionate capital. How many people have you helped through this foreclosure bailout program? And you know, if you can elaborate a little bit more, and you know, anybody who's listening or they know somebody who's going through this tough times, how can they get an assistance from what you are doing for the world?

It didn't start out as planned. It was just me talking to other people. And then it kind of just grew. I. I was able to help a person from church, right? And then I was able to help a person from the chemo ward. And then I would. The math started clicking and we developed a system, a truly automatable, process oriented system of marketing. And I'm not a guru, I'm not selling a course. I want to be really, really clear on that. We developed a system that like, we would cut the equity in half, right? So in my situation, 250,000 value, 175 payoff, and let's say there's $75,000 of equity, right? Split the equity 5050. The foreclosed client, they're not tenants, they're not rentals. That's a client, right? That person gets a guaranteed repurchase price. We as investors would buy the house and then we would give them a guaranteed repurchase price in two years. Three years down the road, they would get to enjoy all the upside equity and we would take that small portion of, let's say in this case, 37,500 of equity. The foreclosed client would keep their 37,000 plus let's say another 50,000 in appreciation, right? And then we'd lower their monthly payments by generally 20, 25%. So families are staying intact. In both of my foreclosures, my parents and mine both ended in divorce.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

So our system keeps those families intact, keeps the kids in the same school. All it is is a paperwork shuffle and really life goes back to normal.

So it's really a ripple impact of you saving one foreclosure is a ripple impact on the family, the children. It's incredible. I love how creative that is in a kind of a way for the investors. There is a safety net too. Right. There's a safety net for the owner. There's a safety net for the investors too because there is a certain equity that's already assigned for this project. Right. So tell us about Compassionate Capital that you know, how many people have you helped so far and where are you going from here?

So between 2001 when I got sick and 2005, we, and I don't know exact numbers now, but we probably helped 300 families.

Incredible.

300 homes. I can, it's funny, I can tell you the dollar amount it was million of total net assets.

Wow.

And I have to kind of brain tumor. Right. I don't have a great memory. So some things just filter through. But we helped about 300 families rebuild their lives at this point. I want to be really clear. A lot of people, even though we helped them initially solve their foreclosure, a lot of those people still ended up not repurchasing.

Right?

Right. Because that's just the sad reality of if a person's in significant financial distress once, they're probably going to get there again.

Right. Let's talk about, you know, fast forward. You know, you're helping these families, they're staying in their homes now. You are kind of amassing a portfolio. Right. So let's talk about this. The huge 77 million impact that you had, what happened there and you know, what cycle was it, how did you manage through that?

All right, so this whole thing, foreclosure, bailout lasted between 2001, 2005. The market shifted. There were not as many foreclosures and everything was kind of settling down normal. So I shifted my business model to doing a lot of fix and flips. A lot of subject to just your normal, no frills real estate investing. There wasn't any magic to it. But then I saw this 13 story apartment building and I'm like, oh, I.

Want to buy that scalability, right? The scalability.

I wanted to scale. I wanted like this big trophy property. I was 39. Right. I would like to point out that I was stupidly egotistical and I just didn't, I didn't know any better, like really, truly, that's the truth of it. I didn't know what I was getting into to buy a 13 story apartment building. I'd gone single family res for years and then all of a sudden I see this. It was bonkers. So we bought this thing in March of 08 and it was financed by Lehman Brothers now in March of 08, things are okay, right? There isn't this massive wall of problems in the financial sector. March of 08, Lehman Brothers was, I think, second biggest bank. They're super solid. They were super ethical. Like everything about Lehman was great. So we buy this building, Lehman's our lender, we get a construction loan. We're doing a condo conversion. This is my very first condo conversion.

Interesting.

So this 13 story apartment, we bought it for 3.3 million bucks. Lehman Brothers is supposed to give us a million dollars every month for six months. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, Boom. We're now $10 million into this. Theoretically, we're $10 million into this project.

Right?

March, we close. June, July, August, September. No windows, no doors. The roof is done. The Spalding is about to be done. We have $350,000 worth of windows on the ground waiting for the crane. Okay, September, October, Lehman closes.

Oh my God.

I got an $80,000 a month mortgage. Almost half a million dollars worth of materials on the ground in the parking lot.

Right.

No ability to get the. I was done in a matter of days. Lehman closed and I was screwed. It was this catastrophic failure of events that I will go to my grave telling you that I had a very solid, good, practical, well thought out business plan. And sometimes bad things happen.

It's incredible. You know, every time you're going through this massive, massive scale. I mean, I'm not talking about small, like massive, massive scale of those waves, those downward waves. And you know, every time you go through it, you just rise from it like, you know, like a phoenix. You're just rising every time, you know, multiple times. I'm just seeing that. It really amazes me, John. And you know, as I keep on saying that your compassion is more, more of a thought that comes to mind when I think about you. But just amount of things that you have gone through, it's incredible. You know, from health to foreclosures to this losing this massive portfolio. So how did you come out from that? I mean, is that. Was it the end of real estate or that's what you thought?

Well, okay, so let's start with the fact that I've got this high anxiety stress ball in my hand while we're having this conference.

It's so red.

So 2008, I had 77 million in assets. And in 2009 I wanted ended up $5 million in debt. And I was hyper suicidal for years. Years and years and years and years.

I'm so sorry about that.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I Wish people talked more about mental health and entrepreneurship because we, you and I, we're the tip of the spear.

Yes.

We take the hits. We're the ones who take the risks. We're the ones who shape the world to our will.

Right.

And all shit, everything breaks. Entrepreneurs really need to focus on mental health issues.

Yeah.

I've been in therapy. So you ask like, what happened from there to here. I have been hyper depressive for 12 of those years. You see me hiking, right? I'm, I'm a backpacker and I, Yeah. So about three years ago it was either I'm going to kill myself or I'm going to walk 2,000 miles on the Pacific Trust Trail. And like, yeah, I had to do something. I had to just shake it up. And so I started hiking, I started walking and I started backpacking and, and I've been in therapy for more than two years now. Like, I have a weekly counseling session just to deal with anxiety. The lives I destroyed here. This is what we never talked about as entrepreneurs. All the rainbow and sunshine. But if things go bad, think about my portfolio. I had roughly 320 single family res homes.

Right.

And 13 story apartment building. That's 2,000, possibly 2,500 people, right?

People, yes.

Right.

Yeah.

I don't care about the money. Money is easy, money you can make and money will come and go.

Right.

But the wreckage of lives, right. 2,000 people, I directly destroyed their lives. Everybody had to move, right? Everybody. And I had people who had been in their homes for 15 and 20 and 30 years. Multi generational people living and the lives that, that and I, I mean, partially, I'm the CEO, so I take responsibility. This is Lehman's problem.

Yes, Yes. I was just thinking about that, that, you know, this is not on you. If the market didn't change and what happened to Lehman in 2008, if that didn't happen, this is the passion and compassion that you had to continue supporting these families and adding, you know, that value to them. Right. It's not really onto you. And at the same time, I really, really appreciate you sharing this one liberty about being an entrepreneur and what kind of stress that you go through and being so open about and talking about your mental health to the point that, you know, yes, you were suicidal and you know, what did you do to come out of it? Because more often than usual this does not get talked about. People do not talk about that. It's just say, still under the COVID so silent. So I really appreciate you sharing that. People just see the glorious Side of, okay, real estate is all glorious, but this is also a cycle, right? And because it goes through a cycle and you have to understand that, you know, the change is, is really important. It's really crucial. The pivot is really crucial, right? So with that, let's talk about that pivot, right? And let's talk about the adaptive reuse that you, you know, you are thinking about now, because it's not about that, you know, whether you can make money in real estate, you can make money, you can lose money, but it's about how you can pivot, how you can change, you know, where to look for in every market cycle. And looking at the experiences that you have had, I think that is what has, that story has created for you is your ability to look at these things, identify these problems, create this momentum of change and pivoting your strategy.

All right, so I spent all this time on the foreclosure side on single family residential. I'm looking at the last couple years with COVID and the enormous amount of square footage of office buildings and retail places that are just simply not used anymore. And so I'm always super passionate about path to homeownership. It's all from my whole business model. My whole life is in path to homeownership. And so adaptive reuse is we're buying old apartment buildings, making them class A beautiful places to live that people want to go to, that they enjoy being in, right? And then because there's, there's this over consumption of there's so many apartment buildings, we're getting relatively decent values for them and we're converting those into condominiums. So this whole idea of adaptive reuse is helping people who would normally not not have access to a home that's affordable, Right. Open that door.

Love that.

And you know how pissed off I am at banks, right? So our business model is we become the bank. So let's say, let's take our Oklahoma City property, right? Hundred thousand dollar purchase price per the door to buy it as an apartment. You might sell it for 250. We ask the, our homeowners to get a first mortgage of that 100,000, so that returns capital to the investors. And then that, that $150,000 delta, that's pure profit. We're the second mortgage holder on, so we have no landlord responsibilities. We've helped somebody become a homeowner so they're going to enjoy their equity. And we're basically the bank financing part of the transaction.

And you had that check coming over to you over and over again, consistent.

Cash flow from 50 different units for the next 20 years.

You're not worried about the property taxes going up, you're not worried about changing of the tenants. It's just that consistent payment. I love that. It's kind of that risk manage. Right. I love that strategy. And by the way, you know, listeners, if you want to reach out to John, please do, but this is a podcast. I do want to insist that this is information and education purpose only. We are not promoting any investments here. We are not supporting any investments here. Please do your due diligence from your tax lawyer, all the perspective that you have to. But John, if they want to get in touch with you, how do they get in touch?

I'm pretty easy. I'm a big fan of LinkedIn. That's kind of my community that I'm building. Uh, John Lane on LinkedIn and then John CompassionateCapital Fund. Right? That's the easiest way. JohnompassionateCapital Fund. That's like the easiest way to do it.

So with that, this conversation is incredible and I wish we could keep on talking about it and help our listeners to understand these waves that comes and go and how you can react to it. You know, life throws you a curveball and you are a classic, classic example of when you take that curveball, not only use it to your advantage, but actually help others so compassionately to change their lives and change the families have this triple impact on the community. So thank you for sharing your journey. And with that, the next section is, you know, one of my favorites. I talk about, you know, when it comes to think outside the stocks, it's not just about investments and what returns you can make, but I always think about how can you grow, preserve, protect and pass your generational value. So that's the think outside the stocks premise. And with that, can you help our listeners to understand how do you, John, think outside the stock so that when it comes to diversification or guarding those investments or estate planning or anything, anything that you want to share, please go ahead and share.

All right, so when I think of like, think outside the stocks, I have, I have four nieces and nephews, no kids myself, but four nieces and nephews. The quick answer is teach them entrepreneurial skills. Love that. I mean, seriously, if there's a way, look, the stock market is the stock market, but controlling your own income as an entrepreneur, yeah, there's ups and there's downs, but generally speaking, we can control our income. My wife's a teacher. She cannot control her income. Right. As entrepreneurs. So that's kind of my thought process. I like teaching young people about financial literacy is kind of the big euphemistic term.

Yeah. And then I've seen you teaching about something like house hack, for example. Right.

Yeah.

These are the things which is, you know, getting them to that. The curve line of the life path. I love that. So number one is the education. And how about you? How do you diversify outside of real estate? Where do you invest? Where, where do you put that protective kind of arms around your wealth?

Oh, this is a terrible answer.

No answer is a terrible answer.

No, I, I've tried crypto sucked. I've tried forex, I sucked, I've tried stocks. I've sucked. For whatever reason. I literally, I think I bought in late 2001, like December of 2001, I bought $2,000 worth of crypto. Oh, I'm going to get on the crypto bandwagon. And it's $200 now. Right. I am not the guy to ask on how to think out unless it's real estate. Real estate, I got nailed. But no other asset class.

You know what, this, like I said that there is no wrong answers here because sometimes we learn what to do, but it's most important to learn, you know, what not to. Right. So I think. So that's why I like that answer. So that's an incredible lesson.

Thank you for sharing that I utterly failed at forex. I don't have the temperament for fast moving things. Right. Crypto, Forex and stocks. I watched myself make $10,000 in an hour on forex and I lost $10,000 in forex in two hours. And, and it came back and I'm like, I'm done. I got back to zero and I'm done.

That's the thing about that wave of the stock market. Right. The roller coaster, I call it that if it is going up, you think that, oh, it's going up, maybe there's more upside. So I don't want to take it out. And when it starts suddenly going down, then you think, oh, it's pennies on the dollar. Now I cannot take it out. Let's wait till it recovers. So there's kind of an. You're stuck in an endless cycle. So that's, you know, kind of restating that fact that that's the cycle that we get stuck. And that's why I think outside the stock. So don't get me wrong, I'm not against stocks. You need to invest something in the stock market. And mostly Your retirement portfolio is in real estate. Sorry, in stock market. But the diversification is important. Don't put your all eggs in the same basket. Right. So that diversification is what I'm a big proponent of. So with that, I finally come to the last section of this podcast interview, which is kind of a fun and short section. You know, I've really enjoyed talk you. Are you ready for that last section that's called Rapid Fire Round?

This is the hard one, right? 30 to 60 seconds. All right, you go. Let's go.

So, John, tell us about the one thing that you remember the most when you had this massive amount of people that you helped with their foreclosures. You know, somebody came back to you and said that just stayed in your heart and just got stuck in, you know, in your memory. That was most so genuine. And that just told you that this is the difference that you're making to these people's lives.

Man, that's a very hard question to answer quickly. My favorite client was a family of four. Husband, wife, two kids. She ended up with a very bad miscarriage, like eight and a half months in. Oh, and lost the child that caused them to go into foreclosure because they were just bereft. And 10 years later, I still get calls from them how we helped them, that we got them through the process. Ten years later, I still get calls from them, and I get chills talking about it because they were such good people, just genuinely nice people. Bad stuff happened to them, and they were able to. Now they have three kids, right? They had another baby girl. Their life is great. Seriously, I'm all chilly.

Like, I. I'm getting goosebumps just as you're mentioning it. And to be able to change that family's life and have them connected with you even 10 years later, that's incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that. So my next question. What is the worst memory, that moment that you remember?

So I didn't freak out when Lehman closed, I knew somebody would pick them up, right? It's a good company, good assets. I knew somebody would pick them up. I kind of lost my mind when Barclays sent us a receipt of your ship letter. Like, that was it. It was all of a sudden, Lehman gone. Barclays Kemp comes in, and now they're just, we want all of it didn't matter that we had this construction loan. Didn't matter that windows were on the ground. Didn't matter. They called the loan, and they wanted all assets back under their control.

There was no choice, nothing.

Because we didn't know who to send mortgage payments to. And all of a sudden, we were in receivership just like 10,000 other people and no way to navigate.

Wow.

Getting the receivership letters, that is the thing. Because I knew at that moment my life was irrevocably changed.

But you know what? I look at you now. You. Not only you are helping others, but you are an inspiration for people like me. Going through it with so many hard events, and you're just rising continuously, one event after other. I think it's so inspiring, John. I look at you and your compassion and your. It's. That's an inspiration. So thank you for, you know, being just you and doing. Continuing to. Doing what you're doing. Thank you so much for doing that. And with that, I'm going to end to my, you know, third question. Let's end on a very sweet note. What is the most beautiful memory that you connect to every time that there's something going wrong or something that sways the pendulum of the life on the other side? What is that anchor moment that you remember?

There's a reason that this is my background. This is a very purposeful background. Right?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

My twin brother, my wife, my niece and nephews. Our goal is to go to every.

National park, share a moment, a memory from, you know, one of your trips or one of the things that you did which made them really happy.

This is my dorky wife. That is where I proposed to my wife. That is. You did that right? This is my life. This is who I am. It's super cheesy. Oh, my God. My wife is amazing. And, like, we've been married for 18 years. She's been with me through all of it. We met in 2005. Early, early 2005. I'd already gotten served papers for my divorce. Moving on from that, Cindy walks into my life, and my life has been 10 times better this last 18 years. Even though it's been crazy. I couldn't have done it without her.

Oh, my God. God, you're giving me butterflies in my stomach.

Right? This is like, I'm all about my little, like, things.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. It's giving me butterflies in my stomach just to think about this beautiful relationship that you have with that. I thank you so much again for sharing your journey, your intense journey, and your intense love for things that you really, really love. I am so honored, and it's incredibly honoring to have you interview on my podcast. I hope that listeners, you know, you lear about, you know, this ups and downs that John has gone through. And there's, you know, so much of learning, so much of the moments that just challenges that, you know, challenge your life, that status quo that you are gotten comfortable with because that can come tumbling down multiple times like it happened with John. So, you know, start thinking about what is that one thing that you want to start changing if that's one thing that you want to take away from John. Anything that you want to mention to our listeners that one thing if they want to, you know, remember in life and to continue on that path.

So when you've got a fairly decent size of chips on the table, take some money off the table. My biggest, biggest, biggest, biggest, biggest mistake in my entire career is not taking money off the table. I was, I was investing and investing and rolling all the profits into more and more and I never once took money off the table.

I love that this is going to be like John said, quote, I think I love that. So with that, we have come to our end of our show. Thank you so much, John, again for being here and sharing your incredible story with our guests.

Thank you. I deeply appreciate you and this community.

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Again, thanks for tuning in to the Think Outside the Stocks podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like, like and subscribe. MADVI is on a mission to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time. With a thousand more to go, we hope you'll be a part of this vision. Please join our growing community and to get your journey started, visit thinkoutsidethestocks.com to download your free guide on active income with passive real estate investments. If you learn something new, please share it with one person today. And if you have 60 seconds, please leave us an Apple review to help us reach more people like you. Tune in for the next episode.