EP42: 33 Passive Deals and Counting: Lessons from Jeremy Dyer

It's incredibly important that people understand, you know, real estate is not a get rich quick play there. You know, birds fly, fish swim, real estate falls apart. You know, it's kind of my motto. There's always going to be challenges that operators are going to have. Whether it's a build to rent or it's a multifamily value add or it's a self storage or assisted living, it really doesn't matter, right? As long as there's people involved and there's an asset involved, there's likely going to be some headwinds. Or are you frustrated watching your hard earned money ride the knee jerking Wall street roller coaster? Are you looking to diversify into alternate investments and set them on autopilot to achieve financial freedom? It's time to learn the ways of the wealthy. It's time to Think Outside the Stocks with your host Madhavi Jain, an immigrant from India and ex IT professional who will bring you industry experts to illustrate a passive and holistic financial approach to build not just passive income but but also your generational wealth. Madvi is on a mission to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time. And a thousand more to go. Are you going to be part of this vision? And now without further ado, here is the host of Think Outside the Stocks, Madhvi Jain.

Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to another episode with Think Outside the Stocks. I am your host Maadvi Jain and we have a tremendous, tremendous guest today, Jeremy Dyer from from Starting Point Capital and is his journey. He has completed about 32 passive deals. My goodness, Jeremy, that's tremendous amount of deal and I cannot wait to hear from you about these deals and your lessons learned and just plenty of things that you're going to bring in to our audience today. So welcome to Think Outside the Stocks Madhavi.

Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. So we are going to jump into it. And guys, if you want to listen about those 32 passive deals and it's an amount of lessons learned, the good, bad, the ugly, please stick on and listen to this whole episode because this is going to be a fun ride. Jeremy is a very, very interesting speaker and communicator and he is just going to spill the beans before we go ahead just a little bit. 2 cents from my lawyer that this is information and education purpose only. If you want to engage with any of our guests, including Shauna, please do your own due diligence and I'm not particularly financial, legal or tax advisor or investment advisor. So please seek your own team and maybe Tashana would be one of that team members. Right. And also we, you know, we'll have some examples for education and information purpose only. So keep that in mind. These are point in time, these are not representative of any real information. So let's get started on that. And before you go ahead, you always know that we, I like to talk about three fun facts about my guests and here are they. I already stated one, so I'm not going to count about this. 32 deals. Deals, the passively invested that he's involved in, that's about 5,000 units. And you know, if you look at, you know, how many properties, how many assets under management is about 750 million. So that's tremendous. Congratulations, Jeremy. Incredible, incredible progress there. But let's turn on the other side. And Jeremy's, you know, there's a personality who is interested in many, many things. He's a community leader, he contributes back to community. And one of the example is that he has, you know, adopted two children from China. So I, I to know more about that journey here in a bit. And also it's a sports fan coach. He has taught over 30 plus hockey teams. That's incredible. You know, it's, I don't even know how do you manage all this? How many clones do you have, Jeremy, seriously, at the same time, you have ran 20 plus marathons. Wow, that's tremendous. So those are our three fun facts. And as a family oriented leader and passion for community, we want to know everything, Jeremy. So let's start there. Let's start where all the journey begin. You know, Jeremy Dyer, let's, let's have it from you in your story, your background and how did you come where you are over here.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that and thank you for the opportunity. And I should probably clarify as it relates to the marathon running, I'm a recovering marathoner. Okay. So it's been a number of years since I've ran my last marathon. Of course, as we get older, you know, our bodies tend to wear and tear down a little bit so that I, I've since hung up the shoes. I'm still an avid runner, but you're not going to get me to run 26.2 miles in one time probably ever again.

If somebody wants to call you and say, Jeremy, let's run the next marathon together, that's not gonna happen.

Probably not. But you know, I could still, I could still find myself doing, you know, four or five or six miles at a, at a clip, a few, you know, few different days a week. So I still love running. The truth is, is that, you know, it's really a grind, right? You know, but so, so, so is, so is real estate. Right? So, you know, I went from essentially, you know, being good at one grind to now being good at a different grind, if that makes sense. But a part of my journey, as you also kind of brought up as well, is that my wife and I, back in 2014, we desired to have more children. By that point, we had two kiddos, ages 4 and 6. We decided that we wanted to expand our family and so we looked into adoption. And so once that was kind of placed on our heart, that that's how we wanted to expand our family. It was really about, well, where from, right, so we could adopt, you know, domestically or internationally. My wife and I had really fallen in love with the Chinese culture. We were there in college a couple of different times, teaching English at a university there. And so we landed on adopting a daughter from China. And when the agency called us up, they said, well, your time is now. We have identified your daughter. However, she has a twin brother. So we went from thinking we were going to adopt a baby girl from China to now adopting twins, boy girl. And they just happen to have been born in Wuhan, China. And up until the COVID lockdowns and pandemic, most people hadn't even heard of the name Wuhan China until then. And my wife and I have been there and our children were born there. So that's really kind of our adoption story, you know, in a nutshell. But I do have a passion for, you know, helping kids. A big part of my kind of my why in life is to, to do that, to mentor, to be a mentor really to my own children and to other children. And one place that I found to do that outside of being involved in our local church community is by serving on hockey teams. And so I've had the pleasure of being a coach on 30 plus hockey teams over the course of the past decade and really coaching children on the game between the ages of 3 and 17.

Wow. You really have to answer my question that do you have how many clones do you have out there? Because I see in this real estate world, you are, you're killing it, you're crushing it, and you have. It's intense amount of work and dedication in everything that you do. So kudos. That's, that's incredible. So I think, you know, I would really like to jump into your real estate story. So let's, you know, start from the beginning. How did you come about Real estate. And you know, where are you with it now and how, what's that passion that you have, that leadership that you have, that you have bought into, even in real estate world. And, you know, congratulations on your bestselling book as well. Fundamental Investor. Love that name. Absolutely. So tell, tell us about that.

Yeah, thank you so much. You do a really good job asking multiple questions in one. So hold me, hold me accountable to my responses to your questions here. But you know, really your first question is kind of, how did my real estate, you know, journey get started? And I would say it really started, you know, back in my early 20s, you know, when I was dedicated to crushing the commissions and the bonuses. Right. I've been in the technology sales space now for two and a half decades and have been very blessed in that space to be the number one guy in all of North America for, for really 20 of the 25 years. And because of that, I was able to basically be debt free by the time I was 23 years of age. So think about that. By the time I was 23, I had my dream home paid off. I had two kiddos with future of adopting two more. Okay. So we had the 40 foot RV sit in the driveway. You know, life was going good. That obviously enabled us to have excess cash sitting on the sidelines. So we could either decide do we invest that in Wall street or in Main Street. Right. And so my wife and I just happened to be listening to an HGTV show on fixing and flipping and we decided to try our hand at that. Right. So the good news is as we were able to really acquire single family properties right outside of the global financial crisis or on the back end of that. And we were able to acquire properties with literally no contingencies because we were coming in and acquiring those properties with cash. We weren't using any financing. I wasn't leveraging other people's money. It was literally my own cash going into those deals. And we transacted on a few deals. The challenge was, again, is it was a trade off for me. It was do I focus on building up my single family portfolio of houses or do I focus instead on continuing to crush my commission checks and try to be a good husband and a good father all at the same time. So it was really back in 2015, Madvi, that we decided to pivot from active real estate ownership to doing it passively and instead decided to invest in a, our first multifamily real estate syndication. And honestly, I used the shotgun approach. I literally held my breath and I plugged my nose and I sent my wire transfer into a sponsor that I knew I liked and I trusted. I really didn't know anything about syndication at the time. Obviously I do today. But for me, I didn't really have a challenge with the analysis paralysis because I was willing to lose the cash. Okay. If the, if the investment didn't go well. But at the same time, Madhvi, I made a mistake. The big mistake that I made is I waited until that deal went full cycle before I invested into deal number two. Okay. Once I invested into deal number two, after deal number one went well and the sponsor achieved the targeted investor returns that I was expecting, I went crazy from that point. So really from 2019 all the way through today is really when I doubled, tripled and quadrupled down, you know, on the investment strategy. And today I just recently made my 33rd investment as a limited partner into a sponsors deal.

Amazing, Amazing. So one of my question was going to be that, you know, how did you choose your first deal? Kind of partially address that. But let's take a look back at that deal. You know, when you say that you just, you know, liked and trusted a sponsor and you just jumped head first. So let's talk about that deal. Of course it did go well. So no regrets there. Tell us that, you know, what did it feel like to, you know, what is the due diligence that you had in mind or no due diligence that you had in mind? What did it feel like to jump into that first deal?

Yeah, honestly, like I said before, I mean, I used a shotgun approach, right? You know, for me at that point, I didn't really care what the language said in the subscription documents. I really didn't care much about what the business plan was. You know, I went straight to the returns and I told myself, hey, this investment is projecting better returns than what I'm getting in my index funds and my 401k right now. So why not go ahead and give it a, give it a shot, right? So for me it was more about, you know, wanting to leverage someone else's time in the real estate space to actively manage the real estate property or properties so that I didn't have to personally do it anymore. The second motivation behind that was really a diversification play, right? I knew that I didn't want to have my entire net worth wrapped up in Wall Street. I either a wanted to invest in a business where I've. I was actively personally managing the execution of that business or deploying that capital with another Operator that was operating that business on a main street level, if that makes sense.

Love that. Love that. So from there to actually building your due diligence, what are the areas that, you know, how did you teach yourself and what are the areas you started focusing on? You still those, you know, early deals as passive investors?

Yeah, it's a, it's a wonderful question. And I, you know, I talk to friends and family and, you know, colleagues about this all the time. You know, really, at the end of the day, it's about, it's about your education and learning. Right. You know, for me, using the shotgun approach, I was able to learn my way through the process. Right. For others maybe that aren't able to, you know, just decide to throw six figures into a deal, you know, I would recommend that they spend some time learning the business.

Well.

What's the best way to learn the business? Well, if you're listening to this podcast episode today, that's one good way, right? You know, have those earbuds in your ears, you know, find time during the course of your busy schedule, and if you think you're too busy, you're not. Okay? You can find time in your day to consume podcast content, all right? I promise you, you can find the time in your busy schedule to do that. You know, second to that is I recommend people find good books on the topic. And thirdly, there's great mentors in the space. If you're not sure where to find them, just ask MODV and I and we'll point you in the right direction. There's plenty of people that have been in this space for decades, you know, that you can learn from. And I'm not telling you that you should spend money on a mastermind necessarily, or really find a mentor that's willing to have those one on one conversations with you. The truth is that most of the good mentors in the space today, you can learn from them for free if you're willing to listen and follow them on podcasts where they make guest appearances or whether or not they possibly host as well.

Yeah, love that hundred percent. So many golden nuggets there. Because you don't have to really reinvent the wheel when it comes to learning. Right? And a lot of people do get into that analysis paralysis mode. And I quite talk often talk about that. This is not a diy. This is not you trying to probably save some bugs. But, you know, it's about investing your time and your money at times into what the education is already out there. Or sometimes it's free, sometimes it's your investment is your time, but very careful about that. So I love that. Jeremy, moving on to, you know, looking at, looking back at your 32 deals, you know what typically, you know, risk analysis is a primary factor, right. When you and me, we look at deals and we do our due diligence, managing that risk, kind of measuring it that, you know, what is that risk reward ratio, what are the, you know, I would say if you want to highlight like five factors that are really, really important for you on that 33rd deal, on the 34th deal that you will pick up. What are those factors? At least five factors that we can talk about that are important to pick a deal in terms of managing that risk.

Yeah, there's obviously a lot of them out there, right. But certainly a big component of this is what's the sponsor's track record, what's their team, what's their level of transparency, sticking to the three T's Right. It's incredibly important that people understand real estate is not a get rich quick play there. You know, birds fly, fish swim, real estate falls apart. You know, it's kind of my motto. There's always going to be challenges that operators are going to have. Whether it's a build to rent or it's a multi family value add or it's a self storage or assisted living, it really doesn't matter, right. As long as there's people involved and there's an asset involved, there's likely going to be some headwinds. Some of those headwinds are going to be manageable and some of them are going to be really difficult to manage through and you might, and the sponsor might not even be able to, to manage through some of those challenges. Like for example we saw with the historic rise in interest rates. So really at the end of the day, it can't be about the pitch deck, it can't be about the targeted irr. In some respects it can't even be about the property itself or even the location. It's really about that operator, that sponsor, you know, their team, the people that they're surrounded with. Do you as an investor feel confident in that sponsor's ability to execute and manage the business plan when we know they will face headwinds? Okay. Whether or not that's increases in insurance costs or property taxes or interest rates or you know, heaven forbid, natural disasters, there's going to be challenges. So at the end of the day, the investor needs to ask themselves, do they feel confident and competent in this team's ability to execute? You Know, on whatever the expressed business plan is that's in their pitch deck. You know, outside of that, there's a few very basic things that investors can look at to really stress test, you know, the underwriting model or the pro forma or the financials. You know, one big one is, as an example, if we're talking about a value add play that could be multifamily, it could certainly be other, you know, asset classes as well. But if we're speaking specifically about multifamily, you know, if the plan is to increase the rents of that, of those units by 200 or $300 per month, can the residents that live in that market or submarket, can they actually afford the increased rent? Right. If they can't afford it, then the deal is going to fall apart. No matter what you say, okay? No matter what your value add business plan is, if the tenants or the residents that live in that community today, or at least live in that area or that demographic today, if they cannot afford the increased rent, then the deal itself is going to fall apart no matter what. Right. You know, the second side of that is we talk about track record a lot, right. You know, what's the sponsor's track record? And sometimes they're gonna be really excited about their track record, and sometimes they're not, so they're not gonna tell you about it. Or sometimes they're gonna be selective in the track record that they tell investors about while omitting the deals that maybe have struggled. So my big litmus test is really, let's talk about deals that you transacted in 21 in 2022. Okay? I don't care about deals that you purchased in 2017 that went full cycle. Okay. I don't care about deals that you sold at the peak of the market. Okay. I want to talk about deals that you acquired in 2021 and 2022 at the peak of the market. And how are those deals performing today? I understand that I'm not invested in those deals. And there's. So there's only so much information that you can share with me, but that's all telling to me. Okay, can we take a.

This is a really important aspect. And let me take a pause, quick pause here. Just connecting to what you said earlier and connecting back to this, you know, the challenge in the last couple of years that we have seen. So, number one, having a strong, really strong sponsors, because the challenges are going to change, right? This is a very important aspect. You know, there was Covid. There is interest rate hikes. There's every time the market is going to throw a different challenges at you and as a sponsor, if they are taking it and they are kind of have that experience that they can face these challenges, they're not going to buckle down and they're going to, you know, create some kind of strategy, some kind of, you know, risk management, issue management. If they want to create that strategy and they're going to implement it and tying it back to last couple of years. Right. And when the market was not doing good, how did they react to it? Right. That's kind of a telltale. And how in future, again, the challenge is going to be completely different, but how in future are they going to stay stable, think rationally, think strategically and bring in that different approach. So I, you know, few of the sponsors that, you know, you and me both like, they have that ability of putting it out there and logical strategical mind and keep on fighting with those challenges. So thanks for bringing that home. Let's go to the next few once again.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that, you know, and I might be getting a little bit off topic here, but I appreciate you kind of sharing that. And you know, another thing, and it's really difficult to tell unless you've actually invested with that sponsor before, but it's really their level or layer of transparency, right?

Absolutely.

You know, everybody's got deals that have skeletons in the closet, you know, so are you willing to be, you know, transparent with your investors about what some of those deal specific headwinds are? Right. And the other component to that is how certain are you that the team that you're investing into is not going to lack attention to detail on that investment in three years from now because they're more laser focused on transacting more deals that create an additional asset management fee or enhance their asset under management fee. Right. So it's really important that you're aligning yourself with a sponsor that's going to maintain the same level of attention and attention to detail on that specific investment over the entire course of that investment hold. Period. Okay. Does that make sense? Because most.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, just recapping the sponsor team that you can trust on, that's really important. The deals that they have, the good deals, but also the deals that they have challenges asking them questions about that. And thirdly, it's kind of a maintenance perspective. Right. That can they maintain what they have started and keep that flowing even three years, five years down the line and have that attention to detail. Love that perspective, Jeremy.

Yeah. And really the last one I would say is really diversification, right. I'm a big fan of investors diversifying. Even with multiple sponsors. Different asset classes, right. Different geographies, different debt structures. Right. Different business plans. There's all kinds of different ways. So I mean, really, you know, we learned that from our financial advisors that want us to invest into Wall Street. You know, savvy investors can do the same thing when investing into Main street as well. I mean, I told you that I'm a limited partner Investor, not in one deal or two deals, but 33 of them, right. For me, how that came about is I just invested my monthly commission checks into deals, right? That's how I got in the game. And other investors can also implement that same strategy. But the important thing for investors to understand is that not every deal is going to hit the exact targeted returns that, that sponsors projecting. They're either going to blow it out of the water or they're going to fall short, right? There's going to be some deals that you're in that are going to be base hits. There's going to be some deals that you're in that are going to be home runs. I've been in deals that have had capital calls. I've been in deals that I've had a loss of capital, right? So those types of things are going to happen, which is why it's highly recommended, you know, that the savvy investor looks at investing in private equity, real estate, you know, with the diversification on the mind.

That's a home run, Jamie. That's a home run. Because I think what happens is that when people hear about investing in the Wall street and investing on Main street as you call it, it's starry eyed techno kind of a tendency, thinking that, hey, real estate is going to be all, you know, stars and dreams and it's going to be all hunky dory. But it's a, it's a risk that you're taking. It's an investment. Every, when we say the word investments inherently has a risk. We like real estate because that's something that you can touch and feel there is a tangible asset. And there are of course, many more, you know, preferred notes there. But inherently what you're pointing out, it's really, really important that investors need to understand that this is a risky affair, right? Maybe more calculated risk, but there are going to be good deals. There are going to be, you know, okay, deals that are not going to perform based on the IRRs that they're projecting and they're Going to be underperforming deals as well. So as long as you have that diversification that you just pointed out, rightfully so, you will have better chances, chances of having this diverse portfolio which can give you a diverse outcome. What you have been doing it so far. If you keep on doing the same thing again, you cannot expect another or different result. But if you change something, you diversify into right asset classes, right real estate, I mean, even in real estate, right mobile home parks, self storage, different operators, as you're, you know, rightfully saying. So I think there is a way, a kind of a diverse way of distributing your risk. So you have to keep that in mind. So love that. On that note, let's ask you the next question and kind of a set of questions is that, you know, it's very challenging. It's been very challenging for passive investors who put their money. I mean, first of all, there was, you know, so much of a fluctuation about the interest rates and the inflation and where it was going and the rate hikes. And we are still in the high rate environment. Then there was a political pressure. Now we know that who's going to be in the administration next January. But this is challenging investors a lot. I mean, we are seeing that the investors for the lack of confidence would just sit on the sideline and kind of, you know, having that money just getting eaten away by inflation. So let's talk about what are these headwinds and that we are facing that you think that we should watch out for and what are the stallions which are actually helping the investment world as well in real estate that investors should be aware of? Yeah, I have two questions in there.

You do a nice job asking multiple questions in one. So if you'll just give me a minute, I'm going to go grab my crystal ball for a minute. I'm kidding. Obviously I don't have one of those. And even if I did, it seems like it gets fuzzy every day. But you know, it's interesting that you asked this question because I remember, you know, back in 2016, 17, 18 and 19, everybody was screaming, a recession's coming, a recession's coming. Right? And if you sat on the sidelines during that four year period, you, you missed out on a bull run in commercial real estate. Right. Well, again, we kind of got back to that same adage coming out of COVID right, where nobody was transacting deals and the sky was falling. But that was still a great time to get into the game as well. 2021 and 2022, we're just not. I mean that time period was very similar to back when I was in college during the dot com days, right, where you could invest in a penny stock and purely on sophisticated, on speculation, you know, you could ride that thing up a thousand percent, you know, sell it and get out of it. I mean, I was in that game and I remember it right, I made a lot of money, but I lost a lot more too, right? So I personally believe, at least as it relates to investing in real estate, there's really going to be opportunities at all stages of the economic cycle. The truth is, is that none of us can really time the market, but there are times that are better than others, right? So for example, recognizing times where it seems like everybody's kind of running into the investment as probably a time to maybe hit the pause button and to reconsider, I'm not telling people not to invest during those times because again, we don't have a crystal ball. We don't know where the next three to five years is going to be. We don't know what black swan, you know, events might exist out there. So for the savvy investor, it really comes down to aligning yourself with operators that are truly de risking that opportunity for investors. You know. So for example, investors that invested in 21 and 22, if you invested with an operator that secured fixed interest rate or they raised additional liquidity or capital on the front end to potentially hedge against, you know, the rise or increase in interest rates, they're probably okay. But there are other investors that that's just simply not the case. Right. Does that mean we should stay on the sidelines? No, because I believe 2023 and 2024, those investments that I've personally made, are going to have a better outcome than those that I invested into in 21 and 22. But the good news about is even though the investment itself might not produce a 2x equity multiple over a 3 to 5 year period, I'm still getting the benefits of tax depreciation in those investments. I'm still not paying any taxes on the distributions I am receiving because I always have enough depreciation, so to speak, suspended that I can use every year, so I don't have to pay taxes on it. That's certainly better than a savings account, right?

Absolutely.

Also, what that you mentioned it before, but inflationary pressure, right? Most people have lost about 20% of their purchasing power in just four years. Okay, think about that for a minute.

Incredible.

The dollar has lost about, depending upon who you ask, has lost about 20% of its purchasing power in four years. That means if that money was parked in a savings account, for example, collecting a 2 to 4% interest rate, you're still losing money at that rate. Right. And by the way, the interest that you're receiving with that money sitting on the sidelines is taxable, right?

Yeah, I talk about these things very frequently too. And people are, you know, in this environment, they're happier saying that hey, my money market is getting 5 plus percent. Well, first of all, if you're, you know, even 35% tax bracket, that's not the real percentage that's coming back to you. Add on to the inflation rate and you're actually net negative on sitting on that, that sideline. Right. So very important tidbits. Thank you for that. And you know, before we go to our next segment, by the way, this conversation I could have with you, conversation, you know, forever. This is so many small nuggets that you are putting out there in investors mind that's really, really important. Each one of them are really important. Right. So before we jump into the next segment, which is I think outside the stock segment, I would love to, you know, talk about what is that one piece of advice? I mean, you started with that, you know, LP journey kind of that shotgun approach and now you're sitting at the 30, 33rd deal. Right. What is that one piece of advice that you would give to yourself doing that first deal. And in, in this, you know, podcast listeners that they're trying to just select based on what I call the shiny number syndrome. So what is that one piece of advice that you'll give?

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. And if you remember I mentioned that I used the shotgun approach. Right. Held my breath, plugged my nose. You know, I think if I was to do it all over again, I would spend some more time learning the business. You know, when I talk to, you know, potential investors or those that are part of my personal professional network, I regularly encourage them to educate themselves. It's one of the primary reasons why, why I decided to write a book. Okay. Previous to that I was recommending other operators books and now I'm in a position to be able to recommend my own. So to give myself a little bit of a shout out here.

Yeah, I was just going to say let's talk about your book. You know, I've been waiting, I think I had asked that question, but I've been waiting for you to bring up your book. So let's talk about the fundamental investor. Love the name by the Way.

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. And the fundamental investor really is kind of my journey, you know, not just my actual journey in life, but my mindset journey in life. Right. You know, from the ways that my parents or kind of your traditional, you know, investment type strategies, you know, that we were taught when we were children, and how my personal investor mindset has really changed a lot in the last couple of decades. So it's really that experience that I had, you know, kind of growing up, the way that we would think about money, the way that we would spend money, the way that we would invest money in things and how that's dramatically changed and the benefits for my family in terms of our wealth building strategy and that really, that wealth building trajectory started to change not with investment number one. Okay. But by the time we got a dozen deals into passive real estate investing, and once we were invested in that kind of that three to five year period and started to compound, you know, those investments on top of one another, we started to see the benefits of the tax depreciation and the 1031 exchange. It wasn't really until we got to that three to five year, you know, time horizon where I really woke up and said, wow, this strategy does work. If executed over a long enough period of time. Right. It can dramatically change, you know, your wealth building trajectory. And it's really the second part of that of my book, the Fundamental investor is really to educate people on all the different X's and O's. There's a lot of acronyms in this business. There's a lot of different things that, you know, investors need to be aware of as it relates to doing due diligence on sponsors, you know, reviewing the subscription documents, you know, understanding the terms, you know, where their investment sits in the capital stack. There's all kinds of different nuances out there that have. If I, as a rookie investor, having invested in my first indication, wish I would have known before I used that shotgun approach that I described.

Right, right. I love that. I mean, the fundamental investor, how can they get hold of that book? And at the same time, let's talk about your passion, about the education as well, and how do you educate other passive investors? And you know, you have a podcast as well. Tremendous respect for that podcast. You want to talk about that as well?

Yeah, thanks for all the commercials here. I appreciate it. So, yeah, you can head over to Amazon and purchase my book there, but you can also go to fundamentalinvestor.com and get a copy there as well. You know, outside of educating people through my book, I do host a podcast as well called the Freedom Point. So you're welcome to give us a follow there as well. On all the major podcasting platforms. I also regularly write blog posts which you can go to my website, startingpointcapital.com you're also welcome to reach out to me directly at jeremy rise48equity.com. Again, that's jeremyise48equity.com and I'll put all.

These links in the Show Notes as well. So listeners, if you, you know, miss out on that, just go to the show notes and you'll find these links easily accessible there. So now, you know, as it's coming to the close I this is my favorite kind of a segment which I, I call it as a think outside the stock segment. And this segment, I asked the guests, the experts been in this Jo, for a long enough time that you know, how do you, you know, just think about different aspects of diversifying? So how do you think outside the stock? So let me ask that question Sharmi, that you know, what are the different ways whether it comes to tax buying, estate planning, you know, probably infinite banking. How do you, Jeremy thinks outside the stock?

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think our strategy, you know, definitely changes, you know, based on the amount of capital that people have available to deploy, you know, and quite frankly, really the, the Runway that they have left in their lives. Right. So it's really kind of those two things. So I'm constantly kind of recalibrating, you know, what makes sense from a risk reward perspective. But you know, I've really found that maybe about 50% of my portfolio is wrapped up in Wall street, you know, in some way shape or form. The remaining 40% is going to be wrapped up into cash flowing real estate investments and the final 10% is going to be in other alternative assets, whether that be cryptocurrency funds or. I do make angel investments on quite a frequent basis. I'm actually involved in an angel investing group called Go for Angels where we predominantly invest in early stage startups in the med tech space. Right. You know, but outside of that, you know, funding other people's endeavors, I will fund other fix and flippers that are looking for some cash on the sidelines in order to be able to, you know, execute, you know, and fix and flip of a single family home is really, you know, them leveraging, you know, my money to be able to, to execute that business plan as well.

Love the diversification. I like how you start going from and we talk about like a Financial pyramid where, you know, at the bottom it's a zero risk. And then you start taking a little bit of risk, start losing a control. So I really like how you have built that and the percentage wise distrib about having some risk managed at the bottom, taking some risk and speculative like crypto and something at the top. So it's in the, the percent is, is really phenomenal to see that. So thanks for sharing. Any tax planning, any estate planning or kind of a generational wealth strategies that you use in your personal, you know, if you want to share.

Yeah, I mean, you know, from a tax planning perspective, obviously my goal is always to pay as least amount as possible. Right. And so I feel like, I, I feel like we do that fairly well just given the fact that I qualify as a real estate professional, number one. But number two, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm constantly reinvesting, you know, into real estate, you know, through the 1031 exchange strategy or what I call the lazy, you know, or passive 1031, where I'm constantly, you know, investing into new, you know, opportunities on an annual basis where I'm able to use the depreciation on those new investments to offset the passive income, you know, on the, on the past investments. Really, you know, outside of that, I always encourage, you know, especially those that have maybe younger families with kids, you know, to consider establishing a trust. My wife and I established a family trust a number of years ago. We have four children. Right. And heaven forbid if something were to happen to, you know, my wife, you know, and, or I, you know, we'd want to have a trust that really kind of outlines, you know, where the dollars go. Right. And so one of the ways that we structured our family trust is we have a third party independent board of directors that makes decisions on behalf of the trust. And our children don't effectively take full control, you know, of their inheritance until they turn 35.

I love how you're, you know, everything that you're saying, it's aligning with my philosophy because that's what, what I feel that, you know, we, when we have started from scratch and building this massive, you know, wealth every generation, if we, it gets distributed and divided, it probably might lose after 6, 7 generation. So it's really in our control to bring that tools and techniques, what we have in our head and pass it on. And the trust is a great example for that. It's not just about passing the dollar amount. That's not the legacy that we are passing, but how we get got here and what worked. And I think creating that trust, it's an incredible way of doing it. So thanks for sharing your experience on that. And with that, it's kind of almost at the end of the episode, and we have one last round set apart, which I call it a rapid fire round. It's going to be just, you know, fun questions, probably about you and your experiences and quick one or two minute answers to them. So are you. If you're. Whenever you're ready for it, we can head into that rapid fire round.

Let's go, Madhvi.

Absolutely. So going back to your experience and the memory that you shared about your adoption that, you know, this you got, you know, you thought you're adopting a daughter and now you have twins. So tell us about, you know, that one moment that you bought them home and you had, you know, something going on, and that made you really emotional about just realizing that what does it mean to you, your existing family, and just the lives that you have brought into the house.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And in full disclosure, it was not love at first sight. So if you think about adopting twins from the middle of China that were 2 years old, you know, we had different skin color, we looked, you know, differently, we smelled differently, we ate differently, we talked differently. Right. So a lot of very challenging times, you know, especially during that first six months, you know, of adoption. But, you know, they're really my why. You know, my family is really my why. Right. They're ultimately the reason why I choose to get up every day and grind it. You know, outside of the fact that I want to make a huge impact in the lives of my investors and other people in life in general. That's my legacy. Right. My family is really my why. So they're really the reason why, you know, I continue to really try to outperform and become a better version of myself for every single day.

Love that. Thank you so much for sharing it. My next question is going to be, you know, and I see you doing so many things, you know, your marathons, your hockey teams, and, you know, just living an incredible life. I would love to know one very interesting item from your bucket list that you haven't done yet and you're looking forward to.

Boy, that's a great question. It used to be I wanted to run a marathon on with my children someday, but, okay, since then, I think I've let that bucket list go. There's one item that has been on my wife and I's bucket list for a long time. Even while we Were dating. And just for the record, my wife and I have been married for almost 25 years now, and we dated for six years. Okay. We. We were children when we started dating. Right. So one item that's been on our buck bucket list, even back to the time in which we were dating was we always wanted to go to Bora Bora. I don't know why, but we wanted to go to Bora Bora. So we've been. Since then, we've been all over the world. Okay. All over Europe and, you know, South America and. And all over the United States. Right. But we've never. And all over Asia. We've never gone to Bora Bora. So that still remains on my wife and I's bucket list of things to do as soon as we can.

I hear a next trip coming up to Bora Bora then. I love that. Thank you so much. I think there's something interesting about the. Just the name. I think, you know, that's attractive. So look forward to seeing more pictures from you when you actually visit Bura Pura. And the last question is going to be here that. What is that one? You know, just going through your journey. What is that one? One unusual or surprising fact that you have learned about yourself that you didn't even realize it, but now, you know, it's like looking back, oh, my God. This is. This is a fact about me that I've realized I just learned about myself.

Yeah, it's a really interesting question because I think that most people probably have the same limiting belief that I had, and that was, you don't have to get up every day to fulfill someone else's dreams. You can get up every day to fulfill your own dreams. I think a lot of people are born with an entrepreneurial itch or they have this void in their lives that can be fulfilled occupationally wise with just having enough confidence in yourself and your own ability to execute. And, you know, thankfully we live in America where if you have an entrepreneurial itch and you want to scratch it, you can do that. Right. And I think a lot of people, they lack the confidence and really the trust in their own abilities. And they don't realize that the skills that they've developed in corporate America can absolutely be transferred into Main street, whether that's active or passive investing in Main Street. And so I. So I'd really encourage that listener today that feels stuck in corporate America. There are ways to get unshackled, okay? That can be one part the way that you choose to invest your dollars okay. And a second part the way, a different way in which you choose to invest your time. And so I would tell you, find something you're passionate about and make baby steps on a daily basis to put yourself into a position where you can escape from the dependence of the W2.

Love that. Mind blowing. What a way to end this show. My goodness. Amazing. You know, don't wake up to fulfill somebody else's dream. I love that. With that thought, we are going to, you know, end this episode. I'm getting goosebumps. Lovely conversation that we had. And listeners just look back, fact, think about, question yourself. What you have been doing, what you have been doing has gotten you where you are. So you got to change fundamentally something. And that's challenging that limiting belief, as Jeremy just rightfully points out. And you know, before you invest into your next passive deal, look at the. The tidbits that, you know, the red flags that Jeremy has shared. And this has incredible amount of value in listening into this episode. So, Jeremy, I'm truly grateful that you're here sharing your journey with our audience and thank you so much, all of you for listening in as well. I will see you around in the next episode. Thank you so much, Jeremy, and thanks, everyone.

Thanks for tuning in to the Think Outside the Stocks podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like and subscribe. MADVI is on a mission to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time. With a thousand more to go. Go. We hope you'll be a part of this vision. Please join our growing community. And to get your journey started, visit thinkoutsidethestocks.com to download your free guide on active income with passive real estate investments. If you learn something new, please share it with one person today. And if you have 60 seconds, please leave us an Apple review to help us reach more people like you. Tune in for the next episode.