S7E6: Sarah Flint is Disrupting Footwear by Building Modern Luxury for Today’s Woman

Heidi Klum. And she was wearing, of course, a 100mm bootie at the airport, as you do if you're Heidi Klum. And we've had a lot of really amazing brand evangelists, everyone from Amal Clooney and Meghan Markle to Lady Gaga, who I would never think would be a Sarah Flint customer, but she literally will wear a 100mm Perfect Pump. Running down the streets of New York.

Welcome back to the 7th season of The Room Podcast. If you've been here for a while, you might remember Claudia and me have been on a journey to navigate our early 20s careers in Silicon Valley. We started this podcast about 2 years ago now, which is pretty wild, in the middle of a pandemic, recording from our bedrooms. Since then, a lot has changed both in the macro economy as well as in our own jobs and careers.

So let's get you up to date on what's going on with us.

Since 2020, Claudia has left Uber and become a full-time co-CEO and founder of Pryve, a startup unlocking and disrupting recurring revenue for e-commerce brands.

And Madison is now a partner over seed investments at Defy VC, an early-stage venture firm in the Bay Area. Totally crushing it, and I'm so lucky to have her as an investor in Pryve. We're two women navigating our careers and asking the people who inspire us to shed light on their stories. Unlocking Access starts with a conversation and context. We open the door to moments in technology history that traditionally happen behind closed doors. Mads, can you tell us what to look forward to this season?

Absolutely. This season, you can expect a really exciting 8-person roster of founders that you've definitely heard of. First up is Spencer Raskov and his journey to building Zillow. Second, we have Kelsey Millard and her vision for the future of primary care, which is being empowered by the Sitka platform. We also have a look into the future of the modern data stack with Kashish Gupta, the founder of Highspot, where he's going to share his belief in the need for reverse ETL.

And amidst a backdrop of a lot of macroeconomic turmoil, our guests are going to bring you into the room where they're making important decisions on navigating a downturn.

In real time. Claudia, where can people find more about our key themes and guests each week?

Great question, Mads. Every week we launch a newsletter and related resources alongside the episode that helps our listeners get tactical. If you're local to SF, hit us up. We have an exciting schedule of in-person events, fireside chats, and pop-ups where we would love to meet you. Well, sounds like we're ready to open the door to this week's room.

Support for The Room comes from Silicon Valley Bank.

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Welcome back to another episode of The Room Podcast. We are so excited to share another inspiring conversation with the founder, CEO, and designer of luxury shoe brand Sarah Flint. Sarah Flint believes in style without sacrifice and built her brand founded in 2013 with the goal of creating original luxury shoes made with fine materials and craftsmanship but also fit and feel amazing. After addressing the issues with wearability and luxury fashion footwear, Ciara wanted to make her shoes accessible to more women. So she took her brand direct to consumer, avoiding the traditional 6x retail markup and offering luxury quality at half price of department stores. When Ciara noticed a gap in the women's shoe market, she began designing her own shoes, leveraging her network to produce them at mass.

She realized that it was time to consider the needs of the modern woman.

In this episode, we discussed themes such as breaking into an industry with non-traditional background, what it takes to disrupt the luxury brand market, and the future of retail— Retail 3.0.

Sarah, thank you so much for joining us in The Room today.

Thank you for having me.

Before we dive a little bit more into the founding of Sarah Flint, the brand, we'd love to start at the beginning. You went to Parsons School of Design, one of the most iconic design schools in the world, and interned with legendary brands like Diane von Furstenberg, and Pranza Schouler. Tell us what sparked your initial passion to go study design and also a little bit more about your early career years right after college and what you took away from them.

I grew up in Massachusetts, Lincoln, not the fashion capital of the world by any means, but I was always obsessed with fashion and shoes in particular. Always sketching and worked in retail all through high school, so much so that I did the Parsons fashion design summer program in high school. And that internship at Diane von Furstenberg was actually in high school as well because the store that I worked at, they were able to get me an internship at the DVF HQ since we sold it there, which was definitely a dream. Everybody around me was in college or older and thought it was crazy that I was there. But I always knew this is what I wanted to do. I always knew I wanted to go straight to design school, went to Parsons and then FIT after that, actually specifically for accessories design. And then actually studied in Italy manufacturing and sort of the engineering that goes into shoe design. I was obsessed with luxury shoes and loved the incredible design details, but thought it was kind of nuts that the shoes that we spent the most money on were also the ones that sat at the back of our closet because they were so uncomfortable. And I would save up for a pair of luxury shoes that I would then take to the cobbler and get the toe box stretched and arch support put in and rubber on the bottom and all of these things that I thought it was really crazy that weren't just there to start with in a luxury shoe.

That makes a lot of sense. Really funny. I also did the Parsons summer program in high school.

Oh, you did the high school fashion design one? Exactly.

And then I did one at FIT the next year.

Wait, I'm also laughing because I interned at Theory in high school as well, and I was 16 running around getting coffee for all the models and all the photo shoots and had no idea what I was doing.

But So many fun parallels.

Were you the fascination of the whole team and the interns? Like, I remember everyone asking me about, 'cause it was after my junior year and we were going to prom. Tell us about prom. Tell us about like all of these like high school things.

I'll never forget my last week. Of course I was 16, did not have any sort of documentation that would say I was over 21. And so there was like, we think we can take you to the Jane Hotel in New York. And before 9:00 PM, it's actually just a hotel lobby. So you can go and get a Coca-Cola while we all get drinks.

And so I just thought I was the coolest person in town joining my team for drinks after work.

And Sarah, you mentioned the problem with luxury shoes, and I think that peeks a little bit into the problem that you're fundamentally solving with Sarah Flint. At 25, you decided that you wanted to start your own brand. Makes sense given that you were already interning at some incredible designers in high school. Tell us a bit more about your aha moment that led you to marching into traditional Italian factories almost exclusively run by men, asking them to make shoes.

It was always, I'm gonna do this someday type of thing. And then when I had this opportunity and I was studying in Italy and I got introductions to a number of people who either worked at these factories or one of my teachers in particular had been a modellista, which is the pattern maker for shoes at one of the premier factories. I kind of felt like, okay, if I don't take this opportunity now and use this relationship I might lose it and what do I have to lose? And so I went with him to a number of factories that all said, what company are you from? And who is your family type of thing? Because most luxury brands are generational in Europe. And so I didn't come from a shoe manufacturing family or background, and I wasn't from a big brand. As you can imagine, they looked at me not that seriously, but that teacher was able to get me into the factory that he had worked at basically as a favor. To him. And when we came back to them with actual orders, I think that they were very surprised but happy. So it ended up well.

So who were you designing for? And tell us a little bit more around the types of activities that women are living in the shoes that you started designing.

The woman who buys Sarah Flint is very discerning on quality. She's not willing to sacrifice look for comfort or comfort for look. And she is delighted that she's found that in Sarah Flint. She definitely has a more feminine approach to style, a more timeless, elegant look, and really appreciates and delights in sort of the details. So many of the things that we do with the shoes are very artisanal and very small, whether it's like a handmade leather flower or intricate pattern work. And I think what always gets me the most excited and feels like the most rewarding thing is when the customers actually notice those details. And yeah, that's who she is.

Talking about who the Sarah Flint girl is, you yourself identifying at a young age as someone who is in the fashion ecosystem and knows that there's this creative energy behind what they wanna do with their life. Sometimes creative energy and becoming a founder or entrepreneur aren't mutually exclusive. And for you, we're curious, did you always think becoming a founder was in your path?

I think I did because I grew up in a family of founders. My Dad founded a couple of companies and worked with a lot of founders, and so I grew up talking about the young entrepreneurs that he was working with and their successes and failures, and that really excited me. And I am a very creative person, but I'm maybe not quite as out there, wild creative as what you might imagine from a luxury fashion designer. But I think that I've also just had to understand from an early point the things that I am really good at and the things that are areas where I need help. My spending time optimizing logistics is not gonna be good for me or for the business. My spending time in the stores, learning from the customers and working on a new campaign is somewhere that I can excel. One of the things that I did in the last few years is that I brought on a CEO for the first time actually, which was always my intention. But before that, it was hard to get. Before we'd grown to a certain scale, it wasn't where I could hire the person that I would want. And that has been just one of the most freeing things for me to be able to get back to a little bit more of my creative roots and paint again and just have more time to really focus on that creative side.

That's incredible. So there's this identity rooted in creativity around wanting to build something for yourself, build something for others, and bringing a team around you who can help optimize and scale what most people know that they need, which is oftentimes better shoes that are more practical but also still fashionable. And that vision is what had you step into starting Sarah Flint. Walk us through the first couple months from maybe those early conversations with the designer manufacturing teams and the process of getting to one of your first pieces?

The shoemaking process in general is a very long one, long and complicated because there are so many components and elements and you're not just designing the aesthetic look of the shoe, but the fit is very much dependent on what a form that's called the last that the shoe is built on top of. And that is what dictates like, is it gonna be better for a wide foot or a narrow foot or a high arch or a low arch or things like that? And a huge amount of time in the beginning was taken up developing our last. Sets and making sure that we had shoes for all different types of feet. When I launched the brand, we were in a couple of specialty stores, one called Eden Manor in SoHo and one in Massachusetts. And I was also doing trunk shows up and down the US, really, at private clubs, at women's homes, things like that. And then it took us a while. It took about a year and a half before we got into any major department stores, which eventually got into Barney's New York, which I thought was the be-all end-all, right? Every designer is like, oh, I'll get into Barney's and then I'll have arrived. And I quickly discovered that That was not the case when I got there, that, you know, super, super challenging to work with wholesalers. And we grew really fast, eventually got into Bloomingdale's and Moda Operandi and all of these other places. And at the same time, there were all of these direct-to-consumer brands that were popping up and growing really quickly. And I kind of got my competitive juices flowing with thinking about how can we have that direct conversation with our customer, own our own customer data and insights. And be able to offer a superior product at a better price. And so I totally pivoted the business in 2017 and moved to direct-to-consumer. So canceled orders from those department stores and moved all to online and pop-up stores. And we're opening our first permanent retail stores now, which is really exciting. So it's been a journey.

You said a lot there and definitely want to double-click into the excitement for anyone who's looked up to the big department stores and saying, oh my gosh, I'm going to get my shoe in the display window. You've made it happen, every young designer's dream, and then had to say, hold the phone, this actually isn't the best way to reach our consumers anymore. Will you tease this out a bit for our listeners around the difference for them and what it meant to you to no longer really pull back, cancel orders from Barney's and Bloomingdale's and say, I'm gonna do this completely online for ourselves?

It was definitely really scary, but I think that the frustrations that I had surpassed the fear. A lot of people ask me, was there a particular moment where you knew that you had to do this or made the decision? And actually there, there was a very vivid moment in my mind. I used to go visit the department store floors all the time, and I went to one of them and I went there also because the sell-through for the past 2 weeks, you get your sell-through reports every week, wasn't very good. And I went there to talk to the sales associate, see what was going on. And what I found when I got there was the shoes were not in their usual spot on the floor, which was sort of prime location in between two other premier designers, but they had been moved. And not only had they been moved, but they had been separated into two groups. So they weren't like all together. And it took myself and two sales associates 20 minutes to find where the shoes had been moved to. And I was just thinking, oh my goodness, I'm breaking my back to drive all of my customers into this store to buy things. And if a customer comes in, they're not gonna wait 20 minutes to find the shoes and they're not gonna know that they're only seeing such a small percentage of the assortment. And it was just like, that was the last straw. But there were so many other instances where I felt like I was saddling myself to a business that was struggling, which was really challenging. We would have great sell-throughs and then not even be able to get reorders because the open to buy was used up.

That makes sense that there's just this lack of ownership and ability to have consistency and your brand narrative and your brand experience when you're relying on either a marketplace or a retailer that isn't your own to really portray your brand in the way you would want it to be.

And of course, when we were the big— when you're Gucci or Louis Vuitton, you can dictate where the— how those things sit and happen and all of that. But As a young designer, it's definitely really challenging.

Yeah, you have to advocate for yourself. And so advocate you did. You said Sarah Flint needs to have its own home and evolve that into what we'll talk about in a few minutes. And now as an omnichannel strategy. But from the beginning, I'm curious about how you thought about financing what, you know, is somewhat of a capital-intensive business because you got to make some shoes before people buy some shoes. What was the process for you in thinking about how to fundraise in the fashion industry?

Fundraising in the fashion industry is not easy. There's not that many players out there, I would say. There was a time period, I would say like towards the beginning, where there was a hot moment around DTC brands that came and went quite quickly as they started to see that a lot of DTC brands were taking a huge amount of capital to fuel customer acquisition that wasn't necessarily paying off in repeat revenue. And in the beginning it was friends and family, like a lot of people, and eventually we found the right VCs and investors to come in who really believed in the business, but ultimately there aren't as many female investors and VCs out there. And as much as a business can look amazing and the metrics can be there, the numbers can be there, you also have to have that level of sort of passion to make an investment. And if you won't understand if you're solving a problem for women, whether it be organic tampons or shoes that actually fit and feel good, It's hard to establish that passion with someone if they have to then go get an opinion from their wife or their secretary or their daughter.

We had that conversation with Alexandra Wilkins Wilson, the founder of Guilt, last season, and she similarly shared that a venture capitalist who happened to be a male said something along the lines of, I don't think women spend $500 on shoes. I don't think my wife does that.

And she was like, oh, I'm, I'm pretty sure your wife will, sir.

And I just have a bit of an indulgent question that isn't necessarily business related. It's hard to pick a favorite, but if you had to, what is your favorite Sarah Flint shoe that's available on the site today?

Oh gosh, it's so hard. For me, it's the Natalie flat, which is this little pointed toe flat with an asymmetrical bow. It is incredibly polished. It looks good dressed up, dressed down. We just launched it in a slingback version, which I'm totally obsessed with. I love anything slingback because I'm always traveling and my feet are constantly swelling and getting smaller and always fits when I get off the flight type of thing. But our number one seller that we can't keep in stock is our Perfect Pump, which was our first one that we introduced with the arch support and all of these, what we call our perfect features.

You're building shoes for the modern woman. It's a big feat. The same way that it makes sense to raise venture capital to often accelerate businesses, you can't do it alone. I would love for you to share a little bit more around what the early Sarah Flint team looked like and how it's grown over the past few years?

Started out with me and one other person in my apartment in Murray Hill, and by the time we moved to direct-to-consumer in 2017, we had about 6 people. It was at that point in business, everybody's a jack of all trades and can do a little bit of everything. And we're now at the point where we have senior leadership on the marketing side, on the operations side, on merchandising and planning side, all of these different areas, which is really exciting. I think one of the growing pains and challenges I see as a founder is there are different people that are good at different phases in the business, and that changes pretty quickly as you start to hit really high growth. That's really been one of our biggest challenges, but we have just an unbelievable team around us today, which is really exciting.

A great team is certainly required to continue to innovate and execute in a pretty fast-changing environment that is, ecommerce today. We chatted a little bit about your shift from brick and mortar to direct-to-consumer, and that environment is still certainly changing quite a bit. You mentioned that you are about to open your first flagship store. And so being both direct-to-consumer but also in-person, that's an omnichannel strategy. Tell us a little bit more about how you think about the future of retail and e-commerce, where to play, how to win. Why did Sarah open a store and how are you going to be defensible kind of online?

I always have believed in physical retail. It needs to be the right experience that we can control. We've had pop-up shops since 2017, usually 3 to 5 month leases. And at this point we've just seen that they really work and we are opening our first permanent store. We had a pop-up in Dallas since October and now we're opening a permanent store there in July. We're also about to open a permanent store in Nashville and then we're looking at a couple other places. But those are our two permanent ones right now. When it comes down to it, 80% of footwear is still in real life, not online. Online helps you really scale, but in-person has all kinds of other great value in that your average order value is usually higher. We find that customers come back with higher frequency more quickly. It's a much lower cost customer acquisition as well. I think part of our omnichannel strategy has also had to do with what we call our Brand Ambassador Program, which is essentially a micro-influencer program. And we actually break the business out into 3 3 parts: brand ambassador, retail, and e-commerce. And they all sort of work in symphony, but the brand ambassador program really has helped retail as well, particularly as we open, because we have these micro-influencers in any given location that help us spread awareness, host events, and drive traffic to the store. And it's a pretty unique program. We have about 1,400 brand ambassadors at this point, and these are women with a couple hundred to a couple thousand Instagram followers, but their followers are real, right? They're, they're actual friends that know them and rely them and when they say, I found the best shoe brand ever, that not only is it incredibly gorgeous and fashionable and sexy, but actually fits and feels good. They make those purchases. That program has incredibly low customer acquisition costs for us and has just become a really amazing network.

How do you think about location strategies? You have Dallas, you have Nashville. Why those two cities and what does expansion look like for you guys?

We've seen a lot of success in the South. Particularly since the start of COVID I think areas where people are back in offices 5 days a week. You asked a little bit about our customer before. We definitely have this professional woman who is dressing up and areas where events are back in full swing. And some of these areas are maybe less serviced by luxury brands. Certainly not Dallas, but they're very excited when a New York brand comes to town. We've done sort of little trunk show events and things like that in Charlotte. We're looking at Charleston, so we're really excited about the South.

So you have your physical strategy in place. Let's talk a little bit more about the future of the digital storefront. A topic that we've chatted quite a bit on this podcast with other D2C founders is instead of what Web3 looks like, what does eCommerce 3.0 actually look like? Where do you see the biggest challenges in selling direct to consumer, but also the biggest opportunities over the next couple of years?

The big challenge that everyone's talking about now is obviously changes with digital marketing and rising costs there. We are a business that's not actually really been built on digital marketing despite being a direct-to-consumer brand for the past few years. We've had the benefit of a lot of earned media, celebrity placements, brand ambassador program, these types of things. So I think that what everyone needs to focus on in the coming years is really diversifying their customer acquisition strategies, thinking about new and cost-effective ways to get their brand brand and their product in front of new customers.

Totally. Making sure that your acquisition is not solely dependent on a change in a TikTok or Facebook algorithm.

Just a thought there too, Sarah, on like the authenticity of your user base and the micro-influencers. I still have a discount code that I use for Rent the Runway. I used to work there and I have very subscale followers on Instagram, as Claudia knows, but it is crazy how many people who are reliable and trust you and say, Hey, I love that you use Runthru Runway a lot. Can I check it out? And I can see how when in a world of a lot of inauthentic content or content that feels really forced, when you have this more guerrilla campaign authenticity model where people find and fall in love with the Sarah Flint shoe.

Absolutely. And you're not someone that's peddling a whole bunch of products to people, so they trust you when you post something, which is great to see. And We've had a lot of success with women in careers where they're meeting a lot of new women, like interior designers who have great luxury clientele, or event planners. We do really well with lawyers, people that are constantly being introduced to new women in their lives.

I was just with Jessie and Ashley from Allergen this week at a conference in LA, and both of them were wearing Sarah Flint shoes. I was derelict in not wearing mine, but I think I independently heard them say 3 times over, "These are Sarah Flint," like to someone who asked.

I need to get them like brand ambassador actual physical cards that they could just hand out. For sure.

I think it would go over well.

Speaking a little bit more about social media, micro-influencers, a Sarah Flint shoe has been seen on many a celebrity. Tell us, who was the first or maybe most notable celebrity to wear a Sarah Flint shoe?

The first ever was Heidi Klum, and she was wearing, of course, a 100mm bootie at the airport, as you do if you're Heidi Klum. And the most notable— we've had a lot of really amazing brand evangelists, everyone from like Amal Clooney and Meghan Markle to Lady Gaga, who I would never think would be a Sarah Flint customer, but she literally will wear a 100mm Perfect Pump running down the streets of New York, which is fun to see. But we've had amazing celebrity love from the beginning, which has always been really helpful.

Speaking a little bit about the in-crowd in terms of fashion, celebrities are often a cohort of that, but there's also a fashion community certainly there. And you are a member of the CFDA, one of the most storied institutions in the fashion world. For any up-and-coming designers or designer hopefuls or anyone breaking into retail right now, how did you get involved and how do you and the CFDA support emerging designers and entrepreneurs?

The CFDA was just always what you've heard about as a designer. And particularly when I was at wholesale, I remember everybody telling me, you have to get into the CFDA for any wholesalers to pay attention to you or for people to be interested. And you jump through a lot of hoops to do that. I probably spent 3 months of my life working on that application, which worth it because it's been really helpful since then and been a great network of designers. The CFDA. Has a whole bunch of different programs to help up-and-coming designers. But how I try and help up-and-coming designers is really just offering my time when I can. If someone comes to me with a meaningful question and wanting help with something.

It's incredible to see the layers of the ecosystem from the startup designer track all the way through to what are huge luxury fashion houses through to startup brands that are on their way to being modern heritage brands like Sarah.

Flint.

We actually have talked to a few designers that I think would fit in your family of designers who identify as modern luxury, modern heritage, insofar as they're building items that are built for the modern technology-minded woman who's on the go in mind, but has an eye for craftsmanship and a staying power that in 50 years people will hopefully be talking about. To you, what does it mean to be a modern heritage brand, and what do you think the future of luxury luxury looks like with that framework?

To me, luxury is twofold. It means the top quality that you can get out there, and it means unique and original. Those are the non-arguable two points that everyone would agree on. A modern luxury or heritage brand is different in that it also considers the needs of the modern woman and what she's looking for, whether it is integrating technology or comfort or anything like that. I think that the days of beauty is pain are definitely over. That's what really sets it apart. And then I think the last thing is price, right? For a lot of customers, and that might not change, price is another thing that signals luxury. And you do have some up-and-coming sort of modern luxury brands that are coming in at slightly more attainable prices.

Absolutely. And I think access too, because previously getting some of these 100-year-old brands and having access to them was just really not possible because you could only probably buy them in Paris or London or, or maybe New York.

Stateside.

So to get to on your phone and your comfort of your own home now, either through resale or other channels, have access is really an interesting evolution in the ecosystem too.

Definitely. The other interesting thing about luxury is this idea of prestige and scarcity. There is a fine balance between that access and making sure that you're maintaining that scarcity as well.

I I hear or maybe am reading in my free time about how the Chanel flat bag is a better investment than the stock market at the moment. So I think we can all be considering how it's maybe financially wise to be investing in some of these hero pieces too. Thank you so much, Sarah, for chatting with us about the origin story of Sarah Flint, a little bit about some of the early days, and then a bit of your look forward on the broader industry in which you're a part of. We're curious as we emerge out of the pandemic, we've talked about a few things on the Sarah Flint roadmap, but what is next for the brand?

Stores. A lot of retail expansion is probably what I am the most excited about right now. We're really growing that and a lot of really exciting new designs. We have two categories of product within the Sarah Flint brand. We have our core product that is more streamlined and goes with everything. And then we have our limited edition product that's really special and made in very small batches. And small units, and there is a lot more of that limited edition product coming, which not more in units, but more styles. I'm really excited about personally because I, I've missed getting to design those.

I am drooling over the blue wisteria pump. Just stunning. Stunning. So I'm also excited for more limited edition shoes. Well, the brand is you and you are the brand. But if we step outside of the brand for a second, we're curious, what is next for Sarah?

Oh gosh, you probably hear this from everybody, but the brand, it's most of my life. I got married almost 2 years ago now, and we're having our like wedding party with our friends this summer. So that's next. That'll be exciting.

Which shoe are you wearing for those inquiring?

Um, I, I can't tell you, but I won't be wearing a white dress. I'm gonna be wearing a ball gown, but it's not white.

We love the special moment there. Can't wait to see.

Yes, absolutely.

We're wrapping up our questions, but we have one hero question that we ask every guest on our podcast. That is who's a woman in your life that has had a profound impact on you and your career?

That would be Desiree Gruber. I don't know if either of you have crossed paths with Desiree before, but she is a, a, an everything. She is the CEO of Full Picture, which is a PR firm/talent agency. She's been the executive producer of Project Runway and a couple other TV shows. And she was the one who got those shoes on Heidi Klum when we first launched before we were even in stores. She is just a powerhouse, and I met her when I was at FIT, and I remember going into her office to meet with her the first time and just being like so wowed and impressed by everything that she was doing, by the pace at which she spoke, by the amount of people she knew and the way that she leveraged her connections. And she has just been incredibly influential throughout the course of Sarah Flint's history in so many different ways and helping to open doors and also helping to coach me and guide me into being as successful as I can be.

It's always awesome to find that person early in your career that has stayed with you over many years, but also has really helped contribute to those pivotal moments. That's awesome. Thank you so much, Sarah, for spending time with us today chatting about all things Sarah Flint, D2C, shoes, all the exciting stuff that we love. We really appreciate the time.

Thank you.