Season 2 Episode 8: Liz Meyerdirk of The Pill Club

Come on into The Room. The Room is a series that lets you get a view into the room where it happened. If you're a founder facing questions about your first customer, first fundraise, or first hire, this is the show for you. I'm Claudia Laurie.

And I'm Madison McIlwain, your co-hosts. On today's episode of The Room, Claudia and I sat down with Liz Meyer-Dirk, CEO of The Pill Club. The Pill Club offers birth control the way birth control should be: digital-first consultations, seamless delivery, and no in-person pharmacy stress. They now serve hundreds of thousands of women nationwide, of which 20% are on Medicaid. But The Pill Club has a vision to be more than just birth control. They're going after the entire category of women's health. At the end of 2020, the team brought on Liz as a new CEO to help spearhead this next phase of growth for the company. Liz got her undergraduate degree in biology and economics at Stanford. After a few stints in finance, she found her way to Uber as the first business hire for Uber Everything, the division which helps to launch new businesses within Uber. Most notably, she helped to create Uber Eats. Liz's authentic passion for improving the lives of women everywhere is undeniable, as she opened up on today's episode about her own journey with navigating a challenging pregnancy. The room is excited to announce that The Pill Club is launching its first pilot beyond products related to contraception today. The company is launching dermatology in a California pilot to existing members with a plan of going nationwide with more products later this year as a crucial step towards advancing The Pill Club's holistic approach to women's health. In today's episode, we explore themes and insights such as knowing when to launch a new product line, CEO transitions in a growth stage startup, and and the future for women's healthcare. Let's open the door.

Thank you so much, Liz, for joining us today on The Room.

Thanks for having me.

We are gonna start actually at the beginning. There's so many parts to your story that we're excited to get to share about, including some exciting news about what's going on with The Pill Club today. But we'd love to start actually more at the beginning of your personal journey. You studied biology and economics at Stanford and then went into investment banking and venture capital right after you graduated. What made you decide to go kind of straight down the finance path after college, having had some really more diverse kind of undergraduate studies?

Yeah, sure. So I did what I think most people do when they don't have an idea, they ask their friends. And so I went into investment banking. And the funny story there is I went to my first interview to be a summer analyst and had no idea, like, how to prep for it. Google wasn't even around at the time. And so the first question that I was asked in this interview was, how would you value a company? And I had no idea. And so I answered super truthfully and I said, very poorly. And the guy on the other side just looked at me with this blank face and then started laughing and realized I was telling the dead truth and decided to help me out a little bit and say, well, okay, there are a couple of ways of doing this and let me just help you out through interviews. So in any case, it was something where it was somewhat serendipitous where I didn't know what I wanted to do. Talked to some smart friends of mine, went into investment banking, thought it would be a great training ground, which it's turned out to be. And then I ended up in VC because I just followed really good people. There was a person, I was a summer analyst and worked with him quite a bit. He convinced me to go to Morgan Stanley full-time. And then when he made the jump to VC a couple years later, I was a couple years behind him, he called me and said, hey, what are you thinking about doing next? And, uh, And that's what happened.

I think we're going to continue seeing that path of you following great people and great ideas kind of throughout your career. And I think that's a super powerful way to think about finding opportunities. You didn't stay in finance, traditional finance forever. You kind of went and pivoted from there, actually back to your biology roots, taking some business development roles, companies like MediAnalytics and Practice Fusion. Was this a nod to that bio degree and what were some big takeaways that you had from this transition early on in your career?

Yeah, sure. So I, I think when I was in VC, I had the opportunity at a really young age to be a board observer at a number of companies. And one of the things that struck me was that the board members who were most credible, were most impactful, were the ones who had actually run companies or run functions at companies before. and maybe like my experience starting out when I coached high school lacrosse, I also played lacrosse in high school myself, and I actually refereed lacrosse. So being able to see the game from so many different perspectives was incredibly valuable to me and just appreciating the sport in a different way. And so for me, 26 years old, said, hey, look, am I gonna be an investor for the rest of my life and just commit to that? Or do I really wanna see business from different angles. So I made the jump to the quote operating side at the time. And my jump to MediiAnalytics was a little bit fortuitous. Again, it was following great people, but at the VC firm I worked at, we had looked at investing in a company. So I had the opportunity to get to know the CEO really well, the CFO, et cetera, really saw the opportunity that they were serving. It was analytics for hospitals and for payers. And we made SaaS software. At the time, SaaS was a buzzy word. And made that jump because it was people I knew, a management team that I really believed in, and a product that was really useful. And I'd say the biggest takeaway from that time in my career is really becoming a good listener and becoming an active listener. What I mean by that is I was this 26-year-old, I mean, I thought I was on top of the world. I went to Stanford and I did banking and I did VC and thought I knew a lot of stuff at 26 years old. And I remember wondering how software sales worked and, you know, thinking to myself, oh, this is easy, I could do this. And then taking on this perspective of like, oh gosh, why isn't it done better? And actually going on to sales calls, actually participating in that process, really listening really humbled me. Just like, my gosh, this is a lot harder than you would think. Thank you for sharing that.

That's such a helpful perspective because I think Claudia and I are at a similar, I don't know, I call it an inflection point in our career where she's just raised an incredible venture capital round for her startup.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

With a lot of praise. And myself, I've just been promoted to partner at my firm and I'm feeling really confident in that. But we're young, we're still in our mid-20s just like you were then. And it's such a good reminder that we have so much more learn and a long journey ahead of us until we really kind of live into those titles and what that looks like. And you have kind of realized what I would say is your full potential and being an active listener and learning and being a CEO today. But did you think at the time those are the skills you were learning? Did, did you kind of plan on becoming a CEO?

Well, I'd be lying if I said yes. And truth be told, growing up, all I wanted to do if there was one thing I knew, it was to be a mom. And I actually had this joke with my then-boyfriend, now-husband, that after our second child, I'd stay at home for a little bit, and after our third child was off to kindergarten, I'd go back to work, and I'd actually become a teacher. So that was actually my career aspiration growing up. I have a mom who, at 40, she went back to school after being a stay-at-home mom for 20 years. And I think that kind of imprinting or that model is incredibly powerful, whether you know it or not. And I didn't know of anyone who was a CEO and only knew of doctors, lawyers, teachers, and engineers. So no, I actually didn't think I was gonna become CEO. Although, look, if I'm being like super, super honest, I think all along my career, I've been trying to get closer and closer to the decision-making and how you actually work with a team, create that amazing culture where people are happy, challenged, and motivated, and can apply themselves towards the shared goal, the shared mission. And getting closer and closer to that, I think it was inevitable if I continue to work hard, make impact, be successful, that this was a role that I'd want and, and I didn't want to achieve at. So I think it's interesting because life has different ways and different paths and Being really open to where the opportunity may take you is, is really important.

I think something that really sort of resonates is that advice to get close to the decision-making. I think my dad sort of gave me advice when I was just graduating college. You always want to be at a company where you're close to the phone, and you really were that at Uber, which is where you were Senior Director and Global Head of Business Development for Uber Everything. And for our listeners who don't know, Uber Everything is where Uber's new businesses like Uber Eats are built. And so essentially you were there since 2015. What sort of compelled you to join Uber apart from being close to the decision makers?

Just to give you a little bit of the backstory, when I joined Uber in 2015, I had a newly minted 1-year-old, my first child. And prior to coming to Uber, I had been traveling to London probably a week out of the month. And after having my child, coming back from leave, it was just something that was emotionally really hard for me. I love being a mom, and from a family and logistics perspective, it was super hard. My husband works full-time and he's got a career as well. So I think it was a little bit of that personal and family decision to leave a team that I really enjoyed working with, a business that I really believed in. I love marketplace businesses. Really out of a family consideration of how do I get to be the best kind of mom that I wanna be. So in any case, after making the decision to leave my job, I talked to a bunch of friends, and there were two who said, "Hey, look, you love startup businesses, you love a little bit of that chaos, which suits you well for becoming a mom, but you love that chaos and you love that building piece, and so why not join Uber?" And my friends were like, "Look, it's a great business. If you fail, it's not the end of the world. There's a ridesharing business. And this might be a really good time in your life to do something like this." So truth be told, there was a little bit of an appeal of a larger company as a new mom that I never really thought was appealing before. And it was that perfect mix of being able to do something entrepreneurial you know, with a little bit of a bigger infrastructure and a platform to build off of. So that was how I ended up at Uber. And it actually, fun fact, took us, you know, about a year of spinning our wheels. I think at one point we tried delivering pantyhose and shaving cream and drugstore essentials out of the back of a car. We had a version called Uber Eats Instant where we put, I'm using air quotes here, but like forward-deployed food, meaning pre-made sandwiches in the back of a car in a temperature-controlled cooler or, a hot bag, and we were doing that where it was 10 minutes or less to get a sandwich or, you know, whatever it is to you. So had a bunch of fun days in that year just spinning and trying out different things before we landed on the Uber Eats model.

It sounds like you really kind of had this opportunity to be in a startup within a startup on that team.

Absolutely, and it was awesome because we got, like, great talent, some of the best and brightest minds. The team was awesome. The Early Eats founding team. In fact, last night we just had our monthly happy hour and hang. And it was a really special period of time. All of us had kids roughly around the same time. And so we were able to go through life together while building this giant, awesome business. And those are just really special relationships when you've been able to live life together.

What was one of the most memorable days at Uber Eats?

There are so many, but one of the most memorable days for Uber Eats in particular, I would say we early on pursued this quote unquote fancy favorites brand model. So think like farm-to-table restaurants, the like nice like date night places that you would go to. And we were trying to convince those restaurants to do delivery. And we did that for a little period of time. And then fast forward 6 months, we ended up also including the big chain restaurants. And so Claudia, you might remember this, but we had this big unveil of our McDonald's partnership to the entire company. And up until that point, I think people thought Eats, oh, it's just this like, you know, silly little experiment that, you know, that team is running. We hid them on the 5th floor. There are no windows there. And just ignore the Eats team. It's totally fine. It's not a big deal. And so we had this big unveil where my boss at the time, Jason, and I, the two of us, were on stage in our all-hands space broadcasted to, I don't know how many people were working at the company at the time, I know a couple thousand people. And it was the style of a fireside chat. It was the first time that I effectively presented to all of Uber and we decided to make it fun. We had just had a big PR event with McDonald's Katy Perry's costume designer had created all this merchandise we were giving away with people's orders. And so there was a one-piece sweatsuit with Big Macs all over it. And so I wore that on stage during this fireside chat. And then right after that all hands, we must have ordered like $5,000 worth of McDonald's as like a treat for people. And it was like people pouring out of the all-hands space, just like grabbing Egg McMuffins and breakfast burritos and hash browns. And it was like this stampede in the lobby area. It's one I'll never forget.

I remember even during IPO when everyone came to the office at 5 in the morning to start watching the broadcast, there were McMuffins and various McDonald's foods being passed around. And that was pretty iconic of how important Uber Eats was to the business.

Well, fun fact, on the New York Stock Exchange, on the trading floor, we also had McDonald's being passed out because it was such a big part of our Uber Eats story. We had just an amazing team who could execute at speed. I mean, today we're at a $40 billion GMV, or gross bookings business. So the team continues to do really great stuff even after I've left. So that's great to see.

And you left Uber earlier this year. Tell us about your decision to leave and join The Pill Club.

Yeah, shers. I had just the best experience at Uber. I've had two other kids, so I have three kids total, and two of them I had while at Uber. And I'll just say that I am a huge supporter, big proponent of parental leave, both for moms, dads, adoptive parents, et cetera. There's just so much that I can do in terms of just making you feel like your personal life is in a place where you can focus on other things. And Uber was so incredibly kind. To not just me, but to all parents in that area. So I will always, always have this emotional spot in my heart for really giving me this amazing experience while being a young mom and being supportive of that. So Uber was so fantastic, and I actually hadn't planned on leaving, but as you do in your career, once in a while you pick up your head or, you know, pick up, answer the phone calls that come in. The one and only call that I took was actually from the Pill Club. And when the recruiters had called, it wasn't the CEO title, it was the mission. This concept of access and being able to apply digital and technology to healthcare really triggered a lot of the old experiences I had had in healthcare tech prior to my time at Uber. And specifically that focus on contraception was one that's really meaningful to me. I planned, or my husband and I planned, all of my pregnancies. I had my first child at 32, and a lot of that was out of consideration of where I was in my career. And that's been a huge part, I think, of my success thus far, having that peace of mind, knowing that you can plan for these things. And when the recruiters for the Pill Cup called, I fell in love with the vision and the mission. And also saw, gosh, this could be so much more. I mean, imagine if we could make convenient all aspects of primary care for women. Like, how much of a weight lifted would that be? How empowering would that be? Where no longer does it take days or weeks to like wait to get that appointment after calling over and over trying to schedule and being able to deal with whatever it might be. And so, That whole concept was something that I personally, I think having had 3 kids recently experienced, and it's one of that simplification that can create that joy and empowerment. That was something that I experienced at Uber Eats, like simplifying getting food to you, and that extra joy and empowerment of like, ah, I have an extra 30 minutes to hang out with my young kids when I've been traveling all week for work. That was just something that felt so good in terms of what we did at Uber and Uber Eats. And I saw that same potential at The Pill Club. So that's why I made the jump. It's been awesome. And I've just absolutely loved every part of what we're doing.

Thank you for sharing that. I can just hear your passion for the problem through as you're talking. And as all women in the room here today, I just think we can say really authentically that this access is something we can take for granted and the privilege of Silicon Valley to excellent healthcare. Especially as women. And it's not something that everyone is given the opportunity to have. And so it's really powerful to see what the Pill Club is doing today. And I hope later in our conversation, we can touch on what the future looks like for the Pill Club. But for our listeners, love to touch on where the Pill Club is today. I believe I read that you guys attained $100 million run rate in revenue, which is incredible growth. So congratulations on that. And that was really the inflection point at which I believe you were brought on to be CEO. The original founder, and I'm sure he's still involved, is Nick Cheng. I think a conversation we've had on The Room before has been around why might at a certain inflection point in a business we bring in an outside CEO to help really accelerate the growth of a company. For our listeners who might be founders themselves and be uncertain of why they would ever make that kind of transition, Could you unpack a little bit as someone who stepped into this role, why this might occur?

Yeah, sure. So I think that anytime a, a founder has a transition moment, it's a little bit interesting and, and bittersweet. And there's a range of reasons why and how and so on and so forth. So I'll speak to what I know, which is our, our situation, which I think is, you know, not uncommon to others, but I think a lot of founders, have this awesome passion, this conviction in their vision, and this like suspension of disbelief, which I like to call, right? Like normal logic is like, it's gonna fail, or here's why it doesn't make sense, or here's the safer route. So I think that's like a really rare combination of those three traits that allows a founder to be able to start a company and go out there and pitch and raise money. I mean, Claudia, you're no, No stranger to that. So, and I think that there's some founders, not all, who are so good at those three things that the concept of like being able to continue to challenge the way things are, have that conviction, the contrarian view, and that like suspension of disbelief. And it's, it's almost like a muscle, right? That's, that's constantly exercised. And so for our particular situation, you know, when you get to be a certain stage, there's just, a different skill set at a different time in the company's development. And for us at the Pill Club, there's so much we can do. The opportunities truly are endless. Our customers are asking us for so many things. At this point in the game, the ability to put in a little bit of structure, to be able to prioritize ruthlessly, and then to think carefully about capital allocation, that's what's needed at this point in time to help the Pill Club get to the next level. And so I think in our situation, it was a very, very friendly conversation. Nick himself acknowledged that at some point it probably makes sense for him to step back. And so in our early conversations from June, July, August last year, he was super open about just where his passions are and what his vision is, and also really making room and space for a new CEO to come in to edit that vision And hats off to him, huge respect in terms of being self-aware and also having that ability to pass on something to someone else. And so I think in those situations, and I like to think that will happen here, you have the best probability for success because it's something where it was a really kind of nice and seamless handoff, and folks can work on what they do best, and the company also gets what the company needs. At the different stages of time.

Absolutely, thank you so much for unpacking that. Our guest who previously had been the CEO to step back was Ajay Kauri of UrbanStems, and he called that skillset that you described as the, like, zero to one founder, the person who is comfortable in the ambiguity and wants to live into that moment of helping find product market fit and maybe even go to market. But then there's that growth inflection point of operational excellence that you need to scale. And I just sense that's what you're bringing to the table, and it's really gonna help continue to put Pill Club in the hands of millions of women across the country. At a high level now into this new role as a CEO and having had other executive positions, I mentioned earlier Claudia and I are transitioning into having, you know, higher stakes roles and titles ourselves. What are some challenges that you've encountered on your path into executive leadership roles?

[Speaker] Yeah, I would say the biggest challenge I've had, voices in my own head. It's so funny when I say the voices in my own head, I was gonna say the demons inside your own head. And with the frog in my throat, that's definitely what it feels like. Very much is the self-doubt, or I think about it like the fascia, you know, that layer around your muscle that kind of like binds everything in there. And how you think about yourself, your own perception becomes that fascia, and you don't want it to be so thick or so not flexible that you're not able to see what's actually happening out there. And so I think it really is the voices in your head and The way to combat that when you're not feeling up to snuff, like this is my first podcast I'm doing, I have no idea if I sound okay, if I sound, you know, like a jerk, or if I don't know what I'm talking about. But like, you gotta be kind to yourself. You have to keep working on things. So I'm sure I'm gonna listen to this afterwards with my family, with my kids, and someone's gonna critique me and I will be my worst critic.

No, you sound incredible.

Just as an aside, you know, I was just thinking to myself a few minutes ago, Liz must have done done so many podcasts. This must have been her like 10th. Like, I hope we're doing it okay.

I know, I'm shocked.

No, well, you guys are so kind. And I guess the benefit of admitting your own vulnerabilities or insecurities is you get like unexpected praise. So thank you all. But it's those voices, right? And it's, you know, when I was asked like, hey, would you be willing to do a podcast? I'm like, my gosh, I just figured out podcasts like 6 months ago. Like, are you kidding me? Like, am I qualified to do this? What if I say the wrong thing? What if I say um too much? Da da da da da. What if I talk too fast? I mean, I think the point is, is it's all those voices in your head, and at some point you just have to take a deep breath out and let them go. And so I think that that's like the biggest challenge in my path. It's the self-doubt. And so how do you be kind to yourself, and how do you turn a deaf ear to even yourself sometimes? Be like, it's fine, it'll just get better.

That's really powerful. Thank you for sharing that. And I think Claudia and I both needed to hear that this week, so thank you. And I think that advice really truly applies to anyone who's going on these executive journeys. And, but I would love if you don't mind to ask a question, which sometimes I hesitate to ask because I never like to single women out. It makes it feel like it's too, I don't know what the right word is, but there's no need. Like we're all striving for the high level. But if you had to double-click into the challenges that you maybe would see along the way, or like a mistake or pitfall for young female founders and/or CEOs, Would that answer be the same, or do you think there's a unique difference there for, for women who are, are learning and scaling into these roles?

Yeah, I would say for young women in particular, I think there often is a need for us to feel accepted or validated. I'll say that for myself, right? Where I'm now a CEO, I am sometimes uncomfortable with those three letters. I've got really kind people around the table who are so supportive. But because I'm kind of looking for that validation that I deserve to be here, I think you can fall into a trap of, let me ask everyone for their opinion, right? And I think that, like, taking the time for yourself to really set up, what am I trying to accomplish here? What are my principles? What are my goals? And really rooting in a place of, I'll say first principles thinking will give you that backbone around which you can then solicit feedback, right? And I think some of the most common mistakes or pitfalls are when women solicit for too much feedback and it becomes noise and you don't know what to do, or you get conflicting opinions, cuz you're gonna get a lot of different opinions. So I think being able to know when to kind of retrench and go back to your gut, your principles, your goals, because it's your call and your call alone as CEO to make. And you have to live with your own decisions. And I think being able to have that system to go back to and take in some feedback, some advice, I think is good, but taking too much, I think you can lose your way.

Well, I'm just so excited for how you're going to continue to grow as a CEO and how the Pillow Club will continue to grow by construction of your leadership. And speaking of growth, I think there is an exciting announcement today. You're launching a pilot for dermatology today. Tell us more about this product line, this launch, why you're excited for this new space.

Oh yes, I am so, so, so excited to tell you all more about this. I always like to start with our customers or our patients, and got this awesome customer base, over 200,000 women who love to use the Pill Club every month to be able to manage their contraception and their birth control needs. And in having conversations with these women, our team, our medical team, our patient care team has been, been able to surface that actually 40% are on hormonal birth control to actually manage skin, to— for acne management. And in fact, we've had a lot of folks write in and call in and say, hey, look, I really love what you guys do. It's so easy, so convenient. Can you do more? And I'd love to get some topical creams to continue to help my skin. So I am so, so, so excited when we are able to find that kind of magic sweet spot of something that is of value for our customers. In fact, they've been asking for this. It's something of value and desire from our medical team, where they are just dying to help our customers more and more, and they hear this in their conversations. And we think it could be something of value for the company as well, where in our quest to be that digital primary care provider, being able to vertically integrate the medical to the pharmacy to the insurance pieces, to be able to add a new area of focus for us to better serve our customers, our patients, it's just so exciting. And so we're starting small with a pilot because we really care about that experience, making sure that we can really talk to the folks who are in our pilot and understand what they want more of or less of or whatever it might be. So it's, it's a super, super exciting time for the company. And I'm just so pleased that we've been able to meet another need of our customers.

I think one of the most valuable things any startup can get is quality feedback, consistent feedback, and a large amount of feedback. And certainly it seems like that has been a strong influence factor in expanding into dermatology. How do you think through or What frameworks do you think through when you make a decision to expand into a new product area?

Sure. Yeah. So that's a great question because focus and prioritization is our biggest friend and when not done well is our biggest foe. And so having that prioritization framework is, is incredibly necessary. So I think first and foremost, it's, it has to be something that our customers want. Not what we want for them, right? And there's a huge difference there. And it goes back to being a good listener, knowing how to ask the questions, not just listening or hearing what you want to hear, but really listening. So I think first and foremost, it has to be something that our customers want. And many of them have said that they want this. The second I think a lot about is why are we uniquely positioned to handle this ask, right? And when you think about derm and you think about skincare, there are so many different options out there. And I'm sure we all as women have tried different creams and lotions and potions and toners. I still, I still actually don't know how to use toner. Probably explains why my face is the way it is, but I still don't know how to use toner. But like, you know, there's so much stuff out there and there's so much choice. How are we, The Pill Club, uniquely positioned to solve or satisfy this need from our customer? And I think for us, it's being able to provide that medical consult, being able to prescribe, and having that integrated well with the pharmacy to be able to fill, bill, and ship, so fulfill that item and send directly to that customer's house. So what unique assets do we have to kind of solve that that need or, or how are we uniquely positioned? That's second. And then third, it's important, so I have to mention it. It's gotta make good financial sense. And so that's a little bit where you can say, well, what's the right time horizon? How do we think about when? But it's one of those things where if I'll never make money, you've gotta be really careful launching products in those areas and being thoughtful about how we manage our portfolio of products and services in a way that's is capitally responsible, that's a big part of the job as well. And so being able to take that short, mid, long-term view on what do the unit economics look like is very important as well. So I think if it fits those 3 criteria, one, customers really want this and we've heard it, it's not we want it for them, but they really want it. Two, we're uniquely positioned to address that need. And then three, it makes good financial sense. I think then the key is just execution. How do you actually make it happen?

That's really helpful. I think there's been a history of startups that have gone after a user need but have never paid attention to one of those core legs of the stool of financial sense and didn't reach profitability. It's really awesome to kind of hear that. As you continue to grow, and as I'm sure you think about expanding into other product lines and continue to develop your strategy, how is the Pill Club changing the face of female care?

Well, I am hopeful that it will be in so many areas. So I first start with the feeling, which, not to get all new agey on you guys and like Enya's gonna start playing in the background, but when I think about the face of care for women, there is just so much around that feeling. Right? And I'm not just saying the feeling of convenience of, oh, is it simple to get an appointment? But there's that feeling of care. Do I feel cared for in the interaction that I just had with my OB? And there's this feeling of also follow-up and follow-through, because sometimes I think that is lacking in the healthcare system today. And so I'll just give a quick story if that's okay. With my third child, it was actually a little bit of a difficult pregnancy. I had two super normal, relatively speaking, easy births. And so the third one, we quite— we weren't quite prepared for. And what it was is early on, 10, 11 weeks, one of the tests came back and it was abnormal. So without going through all the details, we had to go see a genetic counselor. We had to get a CVS test, which is a giant needle into your pregnant stomach to check, pull out the DNA, and and check if potentially the child has all sorts of, you know, potential problems. And we went through this 12-week period— actually, it was an 18-week period, sorry— of not knowing what was going to happen. And at one point it was a, hey, your baby might have a hole in his intestines because we see basically baby poop in the stomach in the wrong place. So he might have to have surgery to fix his intestines. At one point, we had a fetal echocardiogram done. He might have a hole in his heart. He might have to have emergency heart surgery afterwards. And it was just like 18 weeks of excruciating thinking about it. It's like an emotional time, not knowing what was gonna happen. And we had the best care. We were at UCSF, same OB practice I went to. And I remember halfway through that period of time, the genetic counselor asked me and said, "Hey, are you and your husband going to see a marriage and family therapist?" And so we started going to see one. We booked the appointments on Fridays, usually after doctor's appointments, and it was an opportunity through a licensed and really caring individual to help us put all those things out there. And that was one piece of the healthcare system that I didn't know about, that I didn't think about, and that was that missing piece in helping us feel cared for. I'll give you the kind of the happy ending here. We have a perfectly healthy third child. His name is Chuck. He is a beast of a child. He's almost like, he's like 30+ pounds, almost 2 years old. He's just this like awesome dude, super happy. He's this giant child. He has a kidney in a little bit of an abnormal place. So we get that checked out often and he's awesome. And so I think through that experience, understanding and seeing that we can get access to amazing healthcare, maybe some of the best in the country, maybe some of the best in the world, But there's that human element, that connection, that celebration of the human soul. You know, having that space to talk about things in a way that could be really, really hard. You know, that was an incredibly meaningful experience for not just me, but my husband and me, for our relationship, for our family, to get us through a really tough period of time. And so when you say, how do we think the Pill Club can change the face of healthcare? I always start and end with that feeling that you are cared for, that you are loved, and that we are here for you. And so bringing together that entire experience that we had, we are hoping to be able to help facilitate that using technology and being able to really connect with people even in a digital fashion.

First of all, Liz, thank you so much for vulnerably sharing what I'm sure is an incredibly triggering and challenging time that you and your family went through. But I'm so glad to hear that Chuck is, is healthy and you and your husband and your whole family are healthy mentally and physically and hopefully spiritually as well. So I'm just thrilled to hear that you had the healthcare that you needed. And taking a step back, I can just see how authentically the Pill Club story resonates with you and what that passion is hopefully going to get to empower for —millions of women across the country. And let's just be big about it— across the world.

Totally.

I'm so excited about what's ahead for The Pill Club with you at the helm, as well as your incredible team across the board for the years to come. So thank you. As we close here with a couple more final questions, you just shared so authentically about the challenges that you've been facing over the past 2 years on a personal front and making a massive career pivot in the middle of all that. I'm sure didn't make it any easier. What are you looking forward to as we hopefully break out of quarantine soon, get our vaccines? What's ahead for you personally?

Yeah, so I am personally very excited for folks to be vaccinated. There's a lot of family we haven't seen over the last 12 or 14 months. I am really excited to see the human connection, the people connections. The teams interacting with each other. I think there's— digital has been great, and I am sure we'll continue to leverage that, but there's something just so different about being in person. And I'm going to go back to my new agey Enya moment with the music coming on in the background, but I feel like there's an energy in the air that's there when you're in person. And so I'm really, really looking forward to being able to get out and see people, meet with people, be with people, give hugs without being concerned I'm going to kill them by accident. So I think there's just a lot of life to be lived and really excited for those meaningful interactions that we can have. We are as well. Yeah, I mean, if I could reach out and give you guys a hug right now, I mean, that would be so amazing.

I know, we would too. Hopefully we can run this back in person sometime.

Exactly. I would love to ask our hero question for the Room podcast, and it's the one question we ask every guest. We ask this in the professional context. I think most folks' answer is their mom, but we encourage folks not to sort of use that. Who is a woman in your life that has had a profound impact on you?

Well, I have to say my mom, eh, because if I don't, she will like totally throw her shoe at my head. But I, I mentioned earlier in our chat just like how amazing of a role model she's been going back to school at 40. She got a master's in like computer information systems. I'm not even sure I'm not sure what that means. And she's been someone who professionally has been so understanding of being a woman, an Asian woman who speaks with an accent, and what that reality is for her, and being thoughtful on how to negotiate and navigate that environment. It's just been incredibly powerful to see that, and it toughens me up and emboldens me. I mean, I can speak English, I think, without an accent. And you know, there are just so many blessings that we have, and sometimes we just have to be reminded of them, and my mom has a good way of doing that. So, I have to say her, but since you guys asked professionally, well, there's a woman, and I should just send her this podcast afterwards and tell her, because I'm not sure if I've told her just how much she's meant to me. But my first boss out of school, Kathy Friedman, she was the managing director and co-head of healthcare investment banking at Morgan Stanley, and she had gone to Harvard, went to Morgan Stanley, went to business school, went back to Morgan Stanley. So that was basically the only job she ever had. And she was this awesome inspiration where she had 5 or 6 kids. I don't know, we lost count after a period of time. And her husband worked full-time, and she was just able to manage things. She had this awesome personality. She was so comfortable in her own skin. I mean, I remember going to pitch meetings with her I don't know, we were pitching like IPO or second, a follow-on offering. And she could go in there and rub a bald CEO's head and walk out having won the mandate. It was just this like awesome role model and just this experience of working with someone who, you know, she'd take off to go see her kids play and then come back to acting in a play and then like come back to work. And I don't know, just a great 2 years of seeing how She was able to manage her family life with, like, a bunch of kids and really be a big supporter just by being comfortable in her own skin. And taught me how to laugh things off and just have a good sense of humor and a lighthearted air about her. So Kathy Friedman is just someone I think about all the time in terms of how can I be good-natured, not take it so seriously, and maybe rub a bald guy's head for good luck.

So. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Liz, for taking the time to sit down and chat with us on The Room today. You are a true inspiration, and I am so excited to see what's next for you and The Pillow Club.

So thank you.

Well, thank you. Thank you both. Thank you for having me. It is a real treat to be able to share a little bit of my story and spend some time with you all. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I really hope we can meet in person sometime and we can hang out and get some McDonald's.

I think that's what we're going to be eating, probably.

Thank you so much for bearing with us.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Room. Want more of The Room? Join us later today, March 30th, on Clubhouse at 8 PM Eastern, 5 PM Pacific, for an episode talkback with 3 special guests. We have Liz herself joining us again, and 2 of The Pill Club's investors, Carl Stenmark, a partner at VMG Partners, and Frederic Daume, a partner at GV. For more content like today's, please like, follow, subscribe, and share The Room with friends. And get excited for next week's closing episode of season 2 with my partner, Trey Vassallo, co-founder of DefyVC, airing next Tuesday at 10 AM Eastern, 7 AM Pacific. See you in The Room.

All opinions expressed by Claudia and Madison and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of the 5AC. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.