Part 1: Hosted Group Travel Contracts, E&O Insurance & Pricing Your Trips

Hey there. Welcome to The No BS Travel Advisor. This is the solo edition. Just me, Marcie Muensterman, my mouth, my mistakes, and the real stories from 19 years in this wild-ass industry. There will be no guests here. No censorship, no filters, just the truth behind how I burned out, rebuilt, and finally learned to run this business like the the CEO that I am. And if you're an independent advisor who suspects your host might suck, hates working for free, and appreciates a well-placed F-bomb, you're in the right damn place. So let's go. Hey everyone. Welcome back to the No BS Travel Advisor Podcast. I am Marcie Muensterman, your hostess, and I am so excited about today's episode. It was a very specific request from Galen, who is in my new spinoff group, Maximize Your Escorted Hosted Travel Advisor Group Biz. Whew, it's a mouthful. This is your sales and marketing group that is free and it's all about hosting travel with me groups. I am not an expert in how to fill other group trips that you might take space out on a cruise ship and things like that, but you can still use my advice, especially on marketing for those things. What I specifically like to teach is how to do a very unique FIT type of trip. And that means building something that is not on the internet. And if you've never heard of FIT, it is Fully Independent Travel. And it is built either with a variety of operators and tour guides and hotels, maybe villas, Croatian yachts, those type of things. Or it is built within a DMC where you work directly with someone local and build out something extremely unique for your group. The other thing I teach is how to make lot of money doing this with less guests on the group trip. This is important because a lot of people come to me and say, oh, I do cruise groups and I can have 40 or 50 cabins and make $20,000. I teach you how to make $20,000 off of 15 to 20 guests, period. Not 40 cabins on a cruise ship. I don't know anything about cruising. I'm not going to sit here and say, Yep. I can teach you how to do a specific cruise group. What I teach you is how to build a network that is interested in group travel, how to market to that network, and how to create something that is not found on Google. That is like the core piece of my personal model. But in addition to that, I want to go on these trips. I want to build community within my community, and I pick where we go. I don't do a lot of polls. I'm not saying I've never asked my group what they want, but ultimately, this is going to sound kind of weird. My groups are selfish. They are bucket list trips I want to take or places I want to see. And that's where we go. I don't worry so much about what my group needs or wants, because I know they're going to get what they need and want on the trip that I build for them that is ultimately built for me. So it's a win-win because I get to see the places in the world I want to see. And my guests get to experience travel the way I like to travel. And they are attracted to that because they want to come with me. And within that community, we are growing every year with repeats, even going back to places they have already been. And that is what is super special. It doesn't matter where you're going, your loyalists, Your cult following will go with you. And that's what I'm trying to do here. That's what I'm trying to teach. That is what I'm doing that's a little bit different than all the other groups' trainings out there. Lead the Manifest is the escorted framework that you need. It is available 1 to 2 times a year. I'm currently teaching fall semester 2026, and spring semester is launching later this fall. For next year. So be on the lookout, get into my private group, Maximize Your Escorted Hosted Travel Advisor Group Biz Facebook group. If you want to learn more about this, there are tons of trainings, you guys. There's even a copycat training coming out right now, but it is not going to teach you the things I teach you. I am robust. Escorted group travel needs a lot of handholding, especially when you're new and you're trying to break into it. And I have been a group specialist for 20 years. Even when I was not selling travel as a travel advisor, I still organized group trips for my family and my friends and have always been the go-to for creating very memorable experiences. I've also done 239 destination weddings. So organization is so important and I know it's important to you, but what I teach is a feelings-first mindset. It is how you want to leave a legacy, and that is what What I teach in Lead the Manifest, and that is why it is so unique and unlike any other training you could possibly invest in. That said, you have lots of options, and you have to find what's right for you because Lead the Manifest is also three thousand three hundred thirty-three dollars. So if you're considering it, please prepare for that investment in advance. Now, how is everyone? I hope you are doing well. Is back to school week around here? My kiddos start on Thursday, August. 13th. I think it's a weird day to start school. They're just trying to ease them back in. My daughter is a freshman. My son is a junior. Like they have the fullest schedules. I'm trying not to use the word busy quite as much, but it is truly a busy time in our lives. And I recommitted to motherhood last August where I knew that these years were going to be short. I'm reminded every time I remotely tell you guys that I think having kids was a scam, but I am in it with them and I'm fully committed to being at every event that I'm invited to. So my personal travel is much slower this year. I have no big plans unless they're coming with me. And we really didn't take like a big family vacation this year. I took Jude to Japan in March and Eric took Max to Montana, but we as a family have nothing planned this year. And actually we don't have anything planned next year. But as they age up, they just get busier and busier. I don't think people with young children are properly prepared because everybody thinks that they're so busy when they're little and that they're not going to get more expensive. That is the lie they tell you. That is why I tell you it's a scam. Kids get more and more expensive. My son is driving. He's already been in an accident and It got very expensive very quickly with our insurance. Within 3 months, it increased almost double because Florida life. And genuinely, I don't know how people do the money thing. Like financially, it is insane around here. Jude is in 2 sports and Max finally got a job, so I'm really excited about that so he can start paying for his own gas. All in all though, having high schoolers has been the most joyous of my parenting life. I think I've told you guys before, but I love teenagers. I didn't realize I would love them so much. So if you are struggling with toddlerhood, that middle agehood of like 7 to 10, I thought that was my favorite, but 13 and up has been my absolute favorite. I feel like they're coming into their own. They have their own opinions. They definitely can be a struggle. Don't get me wrong. We, we're not running a perfect household. We— My son and I full-blown fight sometimes. Jude gets very anxious about her schedule, but overall I believe in direct communication. And now that they can actually communicate with me, it is a much more effective parenting model for me because when they were little and toddlers, it was like, you know how it is. They don't understand anything you're saying. And quick like a bunny was not my vibe. It was like, get your ass in the car. I mean, I'm a product of the '80s, so, but we are back to school and things are nutty. And I believe in having a business that contributes to your life and doesn't run your life. When I transitioned into groups, it was because I could not handle doing destination weddings anymore and the demand that destination weddings took over my fucking life with guests calling at all hours of the day and couples who needed you right now. And things like that. It just was not the vibe when I was young and also a fresh married face. It was different. I didn't have children, and I was able to work sixty seventy hours a week. That is not reality for most of us, and the group's business side also is a much bigger money maker than a destination wedding. Sometimes I make more money on a high-end luxury fit for four people going to Italy than I. Do on a 20 to 30 room destination wedding group. I've said this before, but now that we're really going to talk about groups, the way that you make good money is to transition into actual hosted groups. And you have to be taught the right way to do it. And there are so many factors that have to be laid out. Your business needs to be set up like a business if you're going to do group travel at all. But especially if you're going to take them with you, there's all kinds of variables that contribute to your business that you have to figure out. So that is first and foremost, because I got flooded with questions that are legal, accounting, and places where I really cannot tell you how to do it. In Lead the Manifest, I break it down and advise you and give you advice on who to talk to and how and what should be included, but I can't tell you what your legal or accounting ramifications are going to be. And the reason why Lead the Manifest is so cool is it is one-on-one. So we can help you research and support you through that transition into group travel. And yes, you do need specialized terms and conditions. You need to have your own terms and conditions. I encourage everyone to talk to their insurance agent for E&O because depending on how big you want your group's business to be, how much money it's bringing in comparatively to your FIT bookings, that will determine your tour operator status. And your lawyer can also help you with this. So make sure you're working with lawyers who understand group travel specifically. But y'all asked if I would do this podcast, so I'm going to try my best. There were so many questions. When I say I was flooded, I mean flooded. And that demand is so high right now because there is so much opportunity to have a lucrative travel business without working tons and tons of hours. Group travel actually is the reason that I am able to work less. Now, this year I do not have a group. I am not hosting a group far away with a bunch of people because I'm teaching Lead the Manifest twice. Next year I plan to only teach it once. So if you want in, you need to get in spring. If I change my mind, I'll let you know. Now, There were like 35+ questions on the thread where I said, hey, ask me questions. I'll respond on the podcast. So I am going to break this into 2 parts. This'll be part 1, and it's a dense episode. I'm sure you're not surprised. I wouldn't say it's boring, but there is some like boring topics, right? Because we're gonna be talking about some of the more serious parts of group travel. And if you don't slow down. Your group's business, like don't just go out and take up space and then expect it to fill because the cruise is cool. Okay. Some people can do that if they have a very large following and a very large network, but that takes time to build. I always tell people, one of the reasons my business is thriving is because I have spent 20 years in sales and in networking with a variety of people over the last 2 decades. And It is quote unquote easy for me to fill group trips now, but it took time to build up that network. And I'm not saying you have to take 20 years. That is not what I'm saying, but you cannot just rush into it your first couple of years without a strategy. That's the part that so many of you all miss is actually understanding your particular network. Is this your niche? What are you trying to sell to them that would attract them to you? Having an aligned client avatar for each group is so important. And especially if those groups are different and being a specialist, there's nothing wrong with that, you guys. But when you are a specialist and you try to do something outside your specialty, what is your current aligned avatar going to do? Are they going to be interested in that? You have to be able to litmus test your network and I prefer to have a larger network over a more niche network when it comes to group trips. So that's why I'm always telling you, regardless of what you sell, you train your network on what it is you do. So the bigger your network is, the more opportunities that you will have to find people who want to do this with you. But no matter what, you could potentially be one bad contract away from a nightmare if you Are not covered. You want to make sure your ass is covered. Before I say one more word though, I want to repeat that I am not a lawyer. I am not an accountant. I am not an E&O insurance agent. I am not an underwriter for insurance. I am a travel advisor with 20 years of sales and marketing experience. I am an expert in marketing, specifically. Facebook group marketing. I don't know that much about Instagram or TikTok. I'm learning those right now. I'm telling you what I do and what I'm an expert in. So you understand that you will have to go out and get the answers that you seek for many of the questions you have, because they are professional questions that I cannot answer. I can give you general ideas. But I won't be able to get into the nitty-gritty. You have to go do that work yourself. It all depends on your business, how big your business is, how much you're selling every year, what state you live in. There's so many variables for everybody because of SOT, seller of travel laws, as well as your particular business. If it's $500,000 versus $1 million versus $2 million, all of that depends on you. Additionally, with group travel and insurance, you have to find an E&O insurance company that will cover you potentially being a tour operator if your group's business gets too big, and only they can decide that. So you have to be very clear when you're talking to them about your goals and how much that you think you might sell, because that is going to all come into play when they insure you. Regardless, so many people just want to skip so many steps, and that's the reason I started teaching Lead the Manifest. I was talking to travel advisors about this and I'm like, well, that's That's not the first step. And that's going to be the part where you're going to hear things from me that maybe other group travel coaches or course writers or even Travel Institute course, I've taken their group travel training and it's all about logistics and not about where you actually start, which is with your network. And that is how I got successful is I'm focused on my network all the time and really educating them on what I do. And I get excited with them when I start to plan something big. One of the questions I got this week was, what is a hosted trip versus who do I find as a Pied Piper? I personally hate the term Pied Piper, but a Pied Piper is someone who has a network of their own and wants to host the trip. Themselves, which means they choose the trip, they get their network on board, and they ask you to book the travel. That's what a Pied Piper is. That's the baseline. In this case, what I teach is for you to be your own Pied Piper. You make all the decisions about your group, and then you take them with you and you get the free room and all the perks of being in charge of that group. Many Pied Pipers out there really like those perks, which is why they do this. So some of you specialize in finding Pied Pipers who will take their friends' places and you reap the commissionable reward on that. That is not what I teach. I'm not saying you can't learn from me, especially when it comes to networking, but I don't teach that. And I want to be clear that that's not my specialty. I don't go out and find people to host groups. But there is so much opportunity there as well, especially, especially if you are good at networking. Many, many travel advisors have connections where their, you know, networking group, like a Chamber of Commerce networking group, takes the chamber somewhere. So they get to be the travel advisor for that. That is not the same thing as a hosted or escorted group, even if you're going, because somebody else is partnered with you to grow That group. Everything I train is about you being the person who dreamed it up, built it, marketed it, filled it, and standing in the front of that room the entire time from marketing day 1 to 2 weeks after travel. And really a year after travel, if you take Lead the Manifest, because I have a whole yearly plan for you after you get home from the trip. So do you find the trip or do you find your group first? This sequence is the question of the day. And in my opinion, you build your network and your waitlist for group travel first and foremost. How do you grow a waitlist without a trip? You tease the trip out. You spend 2 to 3 weeks marketing and building a waitlist for a trip that you're planning simultaneously in the background. You're using the information that you're getting from your market to decide what you're going to do next. But essentially you create a landing page, whether it's on your website, through your CRM, or through your email marketing platform, very plain, collecting email addresses for people who may be interested in your group travel business. And that means you're putting out there that you are starting to gather information about a group trip and who might be interested in traveling as a group. And you market to your aligned clients. So if you are a person who wants to specialize in wellness and you know you want only to travel with women, then the teaser marketing is for them. So every post needs to be about what your wellness group dream looks like. Okay. How do you build that? You could create a vision board in Pinterest. You could gather some ideas from travel groups around wellness, yoga, clean eating. Spa, whatever wellness means for you. And then you start marketing without the details of the trip, but with the idea that this is the vision you have. And as you put that information out there, you say, if you're interested, comment group below and I'll send you the link to my waitlist. And then you comment the waitlist link and you DM them the waitlist link to get as many people as possible on the waitlist. They don't actually have to get a lot of information right away, but you do want to confirm that they made it onto the waitlist. And then as you're planning, you use your waitlist as a guide to asking more questions, asking them to respond to certain emails, asking them if they'd rather go to Sedona or Napa, those kinds of things. You also do this in social media and say, my waitlist is growing. We're now deciding if we want to go to Sedona or Napa. And then you have comments and then you get them on the waitlist. That's how this is done. It is not planned. You still are making these decisions, but you're building this up so that they can be first in the know. And the bigger this waitlist is, the more opportunity you have to fill it because your dates, your pricing, your intended location. Your activities, the inclusions will all determine if somebody is right for this trip. And the bigger that waitlist is, the more opportunity you have to tap into those people because they're telling you, hey, I'm interested. I don't know where you're going. I don't know what you're doing, but this sounds like something I would like. That's what you're doing. You're building it from something and a place of, I think I see myself on this trip based on the information, very little information. That I have, and I want to learn more as it comes out. People ultimately, when it comes to what I call the Lead the Manifest group, is not just about the destination. They're booking it because you're taking them. You're sharing your knowledge, your love, your care, your service. They're wanting that experience, especially If you cater to a very specific market, like women over 40 or solo travelers, it can be couples. If you are in a couple, either way, you want to make sure they know who should be on this trip. So you're constantly describing that in your teaser marketing. It's more about the who. If you like this, if you want to do this, if you think this is where you would want to travel, then you need to be on my waitlist. So that is why. It can take time to build because some of you go out and pull the space before you know if anyone's even interested. But if you're niched and you're specialized and you have been for a while, they're not going to be surprised if you decide to do a wellness group, if that is what you do. If that is what you do, then they're not going to be shocked when you pull space for a Sedona spa retreat. But if you're trying to build something from scratch, from new, you still want to make sure that there's enough interest to fill that space before you pull it and put a deposit down. There's a lot of commitment financially, time-wise, in creating this type of group. And I do think that's why niche matters, because then they're not shocked. They've been following you. They know what it is that you do, and they're excited to go with you for that potential. And there are some people who will never come with you because they cannot imagine being in a group. So those people need to hear how different your group is going to be. That's the point. These cruise groups are not the same as filling something intimate, immersive, experiential, because cruise groups are pulling space for better pricing, maybe an OBC, and you might never even see the people on that group. Like, it's just like going on any cruise. You just get a perk for being in said group. That is not what a Lead the Manifest group is. That is not the type of hosted or escorted group I personally do. So people need to know that you're going to be with this group the entire time and be supporting them as well as the people going. It's a small intimate group. Some of you have asked me what happens if somebody isn't the right fit and I don't want them on my trip. This is tough, but the reality is the better your marketing, the more they will see or unsee themselves on this particular trip. And it is so important to be specific. Especially somebody asked, I am in my 60s, but I am extremely active and my trip to Scotland is very active. And I know a lot of women my age cannot do the things I'm going to ask them to do on my Scotland trip. How do I make sure those women don't book? Bottom line is you have to make sure it is crystal clear in your marketing and then on the booking form. So when they go in to do the booking form, this would come into play. It's not like a terms and conditions, but it kind of is a terms and conditions. You can have your lawyer write in the terms and conditions for a very active trip, but you're still going to want to have an exclusive line in the booking form that shares how intense the trip is on a scale of 1 to 10. You could do a description of one of the tours and make sure they truly understand, like, this is an 11. kilometer hike, or, and it is all uphill. You need to be in significant shape and be able to walk 10,000 steps a day. Those are the things that need to be in the marketing and on your booking form. And then that is where you would have them initial that they read it. That way, if something happens, you have covered your ass. Additionally, if someone signs up, even puts their initials down, and you know that this person doesn't hike or had a knee replacement surgery 6 months ago. You have to call them. I know that's not what you wanna hear, but you have to call them. You have to be willing to have hard conversations with people that you know are not a good fit. I will tell you though, if the marketing is on point, if the descriptions of the tours are detailed, if you have to make them sign off on a waiver that they are active and have the stamina to be on this trip. Then they read that and they're self-aware enough, they will not sign up or they'll reach out to you and say, can we talk about this? Am I a good fit for this trip? Another idea is prior to full launch, inviting your whole waitlist to a Zoom conversation where you go into intimate detail about what is included and what is expected. If they have the expectations, y'all, and they hear that, Repeatedly, they will make the best decision for them, and then they're on the hook for that decision. If you don't call and tell them, "Hey, you might not be a good fit for this," I know it's not easy, and frankly, I've never had to do it. I've had hard conversations, but I've never had to tell somebody they couldn't come on one of my trips because of stamina. However, I did have a situation in Tuscany last year where she wasn't completely honest about. an illness that she has that's like an autoimmune disease. And she did really struggle on our day in Florence. Now we were able to pivot and it was fine, but that's the thing that happens when someone isn't totally honest. And so me and my team have learned that we have to get more in detail and more specific with what questions we're asking on the booking form as well. It's so important to just live and learn through those errors. Nothing is going to be 1,000% perfect. The first time usually, and even the fifth time, there's going to be things that pop up and you cannot control every single thing. You can only control what expectations you share about your trip. And that is done in the emails that is done in the posts that you create that is done in the conversations that you have one-on-one. And if your trip is intense and super active, they need to know. There are some trips out there that I see from my Lead the Manifestors that look so freaking cool, but then they plug in a whitewater rafting moment and I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing that. I have a Lead the Manifest client who is dead set on Antarctica and there is just no way. Am I going to follow that journey? Sure. But I weed myself out because I look at the details and I'm like, hell no to the Drake Passage. And that's what you have to do if you're taking people to Antarctica. You have to be like, Like, this is hours and hours and hours in some of the most tumultuous waves the world sees, and they are 20 feet high, and you will throw up even if you don't get motion sick. Can you handle that for X amount of hours? Like, you have to paint the picture of worst-case scenario, because if you don't and they are taken by surprise, that is a you problem, and that is not fair to them. You didn't give them enough information for them to be able to truly decide. And that's how people ultimately weed themselves out. They might say, oh my gosh, I want to go on a trip with you. And then you start to describe it and they're like, maybe not that trip. Okay. And the more specific you are through that journey with them, the more they'll trust you. You're building trust by doing this, by this honest description of your trip. For example, my trips are so Chill. Like, I do one short excursion every other day. And in the off days, we are at the villa doing villa things in Tuscany. Like, we are drinking wine by the pool. We are hanging out, maybe reading a book, watching a show on Netflix on our iPad. We are eating too much cheese, maybe sitting down in the cellar. If it's nice, we can get in the pool. But there might also be a hot tub. So hot tub time for me. We've brought in massage therapists on those days, but they are so relaxed. We stay in one place for the entire time. I don't move my people around, and I don't take them to see every single big site that there is. That is a very specific type of trip. I call them the La Dolce Vita trips, where there is a nice, nice relaxation piece that if you are overstimulated, if you need true calm and peace, if you don't don't like to do 50 tours in one week, I'm the right girl for you. But I had people say no to that trip because they could not imagine themselves in one place for 7 nights with a group of people that they ate every meal with, literally, and had to chill out with on days off. And that was fine. I still filled my trip and I still made $20,000 on 18 people. So that's what you have to do. And this is the most important piece as you sell your trip, describing it, making sure they understand it. The more they understand, the more they will be able to decide if it's right for them. One of you asked, what is like the cutoff if you sell too much group travel? I have read and I have researched. The tour operator license, and you do have to be careful here. And that's why I say you have to reach out to your E&O insurance company and describe your business and get real detailed. Personally, I hired a broker. I decided I did not want to call 15 places and talk to all these different people. So I talked to her. I fill out this very detailed form, and then she goes and shops it for me and finds me the best insurance for the business I have. I currently do not do. 50% of my business as a groups business. However, I have to update that every year. For example, this year I have zero group trips. Next year I have 2. So I have to let her know next year I'm hosting 2 group trips. How does that gonna— how's that gonna work with my business? And we discuss it and she goes out and shops it for the next year for me. My renewal is coming up here in September and we will have that conversation Again, so the bigger your group's business gets, the more you need to talk to your insurance company. I have read that it is 50%; that's the threshold. But it could be completely different. I know Tom Carpenter has educated on this and has done some podcasts on this. So I would definitely go find those podcasts and or whatever he's posting on YouTube because he says collecting funds directly. You know, if you don't break out charges, it could be tour operator territory. I would discuss it with him. If he's your lawyer or you need a lawyer, definitely talk to Tom Carpenter and his team. They're going to be able to determine for you what that looks like and how to protect yourself. And if you want to cross over into tour operator area, how do you then have terms and conditions that match what that looks like? Is there anything else you need to know? That is research you genuinely have to do for yourself. I cannot do that for you. There's so many variables. Because again, I am not a lawyer. It's so important for you to have a team behind you that you can trust because this is not legal advice. And whether you need a tour operator license and tour operator insurance, whether you have to itemize the charges, if you can collect money— I do collect money, by the way. I collect money and I escrow that money. I have group fund accounts and I am not a tour operator. Determined by my lawyer, who's not Tom, and by my insurance agent for whatever variables that are for my business. I'm in Florida though, so I do have a seller of travel that is fully my seller of travel. It was $300 plus the surety bond plus the registered agent. If you are not in Florida, your rules might be different. I know Maryland just started Enforcing seller of travel. So if you're in Maryland, you now have to deal with that. There's so many different rules based on where you live, how big your business is. Go talk to an actual attorney. It is worth every minute and every penny you invest to make sure your business is protected before you dive into groups. What kind of insurance coverage protects the advisor? And not just the traveler. There is lots of different things that go into play with the insurance. Your traveler does need insurance. While I want to mandate it, legally I cannot, but I make you sign a hell of a waiver. And I've only had one person in 5 years of group trips refuse to buy insurance. And she signed the waiver. It was really important to me and I kind of threw a fit about it. But she ultimately decided she did not need it. Traveler insurance is something each individual guest needs to have, as well as you need to have it when you put money down on a big group trip. And so you have to talk to your specific Arch, Faye, whatever it is, Alliance for specific group travel insurance. That is on you. You have to decide that. I independently insure my investments. And then they also independently invest in traveler insurance. I don't care if they buy traveler insurance from me. Obviously it would be nice because there is a commission with all of the insurance companies, but ultimately I want you to be covered. If they wanna use their credit card insurance, I ask them to send me a copy so I can outline anything that's not covered, because sometimes you can then buy a separate medical policy for them if their credit card insurance isn't going to cover medical. And that's the important part here. You are a service provider. You are absolutely providing an experience that cannot be found anywhere else if you're doing a lead the manifest type of hosted group. And that means you would look at that insurance policy for them. Now, you're not an insurance agent, but you've been taking insurance trainings and know if something includes medical, you should be able to read it and say, does this include medical? And if you can't figure it out, then you would advise them to call the insurance company and double check. The biggest part for me is that my clients who attend my group trips have medical coverage. I could give a shit if it— there's a luggage coverage. Like, honestly, that can be fixed with some money. But if you are injured or have a heart attack or something awful happens, you need to be able to get home into a hospital and out of that country as quickly as possible. That is multi-thousands of dollars. And if you're not covered for that, that would be devastating. It would, it's going to disrupt the trip regardless, but not having coverage could be devastating, could be absolutely devastating. So do your research on really good coverage for your clients, but also make sure that if they are refusing to purchase insurance through you, that the coverage they have covers medical. That is one of my biggest, biggest tips. Also, when it comes to contracts, when it comes to terms and conditions, every single adult guest going on my trip has to fill out their own booking form. Yes, even if they're married, I want them to fill out their own and they need to sign off on my terms and conditions individually. This is huge. This is a cover your ass situation. And I know a lot of advisors are not doing it this way. Each individual guest should be absolutely filling out their own terms and conditions piece. If their wife wants to fill out their birthdate and all of that and sign off on it, okay, if that's what you wanna do. But I do have all of my adults read through and sign off on the terms and conditions. No exceptions. And if the DMC or the tour operator I'm working with has very specific T&Cs that we all have to follow, I ensure that there is a copy of that and they're signed off on as well. When I had my terms and conditions drawn up by my lawyer for the group piece, I have my basic terms and conditions for just regular travel, but I also have a group addendum with extremely detailed terms and conditions for groups, including bad behavior, drinking too much, violence. Essentially, if you create disruption, I have the right as the hostess To remove you from that trip at any point without a refund. If you are being racist, homophobic, if you are completely out of your mind because you took drugs or drank too much, I can remove you from that trip. It is so important to have the safety of all in mind when you are doing group travel. And you have to acknowledge worst case scenario. With every single person there. And those expectations need to be outlined in the booking form, in the terms and conditions. And after they have actually booked, you must have a pre-travel call going over the rules of your trip. One of the activities I do in Lead the Manifest very early before the trip is planned is write down all the rules you want to have on this trip. If you personally don't drink and there will be no alcohol, they need to know. If there will be alcohol, They need to know because maybe they don't drink. But if you don't have those rules and you don't know what your boundaries are, it's really hard to share those expectations. In my terms and conditions, I cover what happens if you show up late to something and miss the bus. It's very important that you also are respectful during tours in small Tuscan villages. I educate my group on that, and that is then shared with them in multiple places. You have to decide the tone. You are the vibe, and that's also how you attract your group to you because you educate on this from day one. What is the vibe of this trip? What do I expect out of my group members? That will weed people out because they'll be like, I don't know. Like, I, you know, if I say things like, if you're impatient, if you're running late all the time, this may not be the trip for you. Because I wanna make sure people understand, hey, you are not the only one here. This is a group experience. You will be traveling with other people. I always say this, we are only as strong as our weakest group member, especially when it comes to stamina, especially when it comes to allergies. You might have to wait longer for your food if there is a gluten allergy. That is part of the planning. That is part of setting that expectation. And I do that in a pre-travel call. But you can also do that with your waitlist, with your marketing before they ever book. And you definitely wanna have different things like this in your group addendum that makes sure people understand that this is not an individual trip. Will there be free time? 100%. If you're with me, there's all kinds of free time. You can do whatever you want. But if you are with the group, there will be certain expectations. Additionally, you are going to be signing contracts. With DMCs, tour operators, there could potentially be a very large deposit investment. Having money in a business bank account before you ever start booking groups is going to be so important. Yes, I know some river cruise companies, some DMCs don't require a big deposit, but all of the ones I have done, they have 5 to 10% deposits. Some of the DMCs that The LTMers in spring worked with were high. They were 30, 40. I personally do not recommend that. Do not sign a contract with a DMC or a tour operator that has a 30 to 40 deposit investment that you have to make. That is a substantial amount of money, and I have walked away from conversations I was having with hotels directly, with DMCs that have insane deposit amounts. And I keep $20,000 in my business bank account for said deposit, especially in my group's business. But I will not put down more than 10% at any given time. And I also kind of have a cap out of $10,000. It's about what I could lose, right? So you have to understand the attrition and the cancellation penalties with your DMCs, with your tour operators, or with the villa. When my dad passed away in 2024, I was under contract for a villa for my Tuscany group, and we were originally supposed to go in May. He passed away in October, and I took 6 months off. 6 months. I did not do anything other than service the clients I had traveling. I was taking care of my mom. We were dealing with the estate, and I was grieving, actively grieving for almost 6 straight months. In the middle of that 6 months, I realized I cannot sell. The rest of these spots, I had just launched the Tuscany group for May. The same fall he passed away, and I just could not get myself to plan my own exciting trip for my group. I just did not have it in me. There was a clause in the terms and conditions I signed for the villa that said we could move dates one time. I reached out to them and they negotiated with me, but my second payment of $7,300 was still due. Based on the original contract, which was coming up in December, which was right after my dad died. So right around that date, I had to decide if I wanted to stay in that contract or cancel the whole thing. And I decided to go ahead and pay that, and then we moved the dates, and then we had until August to pay it off. You have to decide financially what you are able to lose. I was willing to lose that $7,300 if I didn't fill up those spots for the following fall. I could have walked away from that contract 60 days out and just lost my deposit. That was a risk I was personally willing to take. So I went ahead and put the rest of that deposit down. It is so important to read the contracts line by line, and if you have a lawyer, have them look at it, especially for your first one. That will really help determine if this is the right contract. Additionally, you can negotiate any part of the contract. That's right. You can negotiate contracts. A contract is not be-all end-all until it's signed. So if you don't sign it, then you're not locked in. And if you don't like the contract, if you don't like the attrition, if you don't like the deposit amount, you can go back to that vendor and say, I don't like these things. Would you be willing to work with me on them? And you get very specific about what it is you want. So instead of 20% deposit, I'd like a 10% deposit. upfront and in 4 months give you the other 10%, things like that. You can negotiate those things, especially directly with DMCs and with vendors. When I was looking at Sorrento Hotels, I was trying to lock in the whole hotel. Nightmare, by the way. Whew. Did not pull the trigger on that. They wanted 40 or 50% of the entire gross cost of those hotel rooms. It was like, Like $50K or $60K. I was not willing to risk that. And as soon as I would tell them, I'm sorry, that is not, that's impossible, they would start negotiating. Well, what about 35%? What about 30%? And I was like, you gotta get down to 10%. I remember one particular hotel had every single hotel room facing the Mediterranean. And I was like, this would be badass because you could lay in bed and watch the sunset. But the deposit was still gonna be like $25,000 because it was a bougie-ass hotel. And I just could not bring myself to do it. I did not believe that I could get that money back quickly because I usually put it on my business credit card, even though I have the money in the bank so I can then get the points and, you know, all the things. But this is too risky. I cap out around $10,000 because I don't want to lose $20,000 or $30,000. So please make sure you read those contracts, understand the deposit amounts, when they're due, cancellation penalties, and then final payment. And then you are going to move that final payment up at least a month ahead of when it's due for the vendor. So if those penalties start to kick in, you're not on the hook for them. That way you're not chasing down stragglers on the due date so that you can then pay the vendor the next day. Also, many tour operators and many river cruise companies allow you to release unsold rooms by a specific date. Definitely make sure you know those, understand those, how much that costs, if there's a penalty, all of those things way before you sign the contract. Ask questions 2 or 3 times until you understand it, especially if you've never done it. There's a couple of ways to collect deposit. Sometimes you can start to collect deposit before the deposit is due. Some vendors will give you lead time. The Croatia yacht I booked this past summer for next year gave me A month of lead time to go sell spots. They were still holding the yacht. It was my yacht. I signed the contract. I knew I was going to put this money down. The deposit was $10,000, but I do a $1,000 per person non-refundable deposit, and I collect that money over that next month because I already knew I had interest because I had a waitlist, and their money paid the deposit. I was out $0 for that particular deposit. That was far less risky because if I didn't have it by then. There was an out, but I knew I wasn't gonna take it. I knew I was gonna go ahead and book the yacht. Make sure you understand what those policies are. Pricing for profit. This is huge conversation. A few of you ask if I charge a fee to be in my groups and no. So there is no fee to book into my group. There's no fee directly paid to me that is not part of the deposit. Everything you pay directly to me goes towards the balance of that trip. However, I do a markup. Most of the vendors I work with give me net pricing. Net pricing is their cost, and then I do a markup. I want to make at least $1,000 per person on my group trips. That means you have to understand how to collect that money. And for me, the way I do it is I am currently going to use Travel Joy Group Funds. But in the past, I've set up a separate bank account where I escrow and hold that money and pay my vendors directly. This is what your lawyer has to determine if this is something you can do. You also have to be careful because some of you are with hosts that don't allow this. If they don't allow it and you're under contract, you have to be so careful. So you may need to find a DMC that allows a significant markup. So that after the trip, they pay you in commission and you're splitting that with your host, just like normal. You have to determine what profit you want to make prior to getting pricing. I determine my profit margins way before I even go out and get pricing. I want to make sure that with a combination, if they're going to give me gross rates, which includes commission, that I'm at $1,000 profit per person. So then my markup might only be $600. But sometimes I mark the whole damn thing up $1,000. I also build in what I call the fuck-up fund. And again, I teach all this in Lead the Manifest and how to do it and how much that fund should be. But it also depends on you and how much flexibility you want to have as you build out this unique experience. And then I package it all up into one price. And what some attorneys say is that you have to itemize. If I itemized it, which I don't do, I would just say there's a service fee and that service fee is included and itemize the service fee if that was something that I chose to do, which I don't. I do itemize insurance quotes. I itemize credit card fees that I pass on to my client. I usually split them. So if a credit card fee is like 3.5%, I pay half, they pay half. You need to know what your break-even math is. To start, which means understanding what things cost almost before you're even talking to a DMC. Doing a lot of research on what group tours cost so that you can negotiate those rates with your DMC, as well as potentially finding your own accommodations outside of a DMC, which is what I do. It is a lot of work when I'm talking about it like this and trying to chunk it down. It's really challenging because the steps I take to get there are very intimate. There's a ton of research. I spend hours looking. at accommodations because I'm looking for something very specific. And I really enjoy that process because so much of this should be fun. It should be your dream trip. So if you enjoy planning trips, this should be enjoyable. I understand talking about terms and conditions and contracts and attrition is not sexy. I am really good friends with Mary Beth Lynn, and she's always talking about things that she does. They're just not the sexy part of travel. She is hosting different free trainings on the not so sexy side of our business. So if you're not in her group, you'll want to check it out. I'll try to get the link and put it in the show notes, but it's true. There's so much behind the scenes that's not sexy in our business that takes so much effort to protect yourself and ultimately your client. You are a business. This is not plug and play for the most part. It's not simple. It's not even really easy. There is nothing easy about getting your business set up right. However, doing it right the first time means protecting your business for the long term. It's not like you're going to have to go out and redo your terms and conditions every single year. There might be certain updates you want to make based on what you've learned the prior year, but you're not going to have to go out and redo them all the time. So this investment into creating the business that you want Up front is huge, and that's the other reason I tell you guys to have five or ten thousand dollars in a bank account before you even start this business. But especially if you want to extend your business and actually build something sustainable, it has to start on the right foundation. And it's not sexy; it's not as much fun. But when you start actually planning the trip, researching accommodations, tours, how long it takes to get between. The airport and your accommodations. All of this stuff is the fun part because that's like the vision coming to life. It really is. And as far as like how much money you can make, the sky is the limit. And some of you are really underplaying how much time you would spend planning something like this, and therefore you feel guilty doing markups or you're worried about tax implications. Well, that can be solved by having a really good bookkeeper and an accountant. Which I have, and she tells me how to do this the way I want to do it and structure it and how to itemize it in QuickBooks. And she helps me. I pay for that. That's part of the cost of running a business. And this is what works for me, and I am very successful at it. And I have so much cover your ass involved because I don't want anything bad to happen. And you guys need to be adding a markup that covers your time, including the time you are going to be with them on the. Some of you are like, how do I negotiate filling a group of 10 or 30? And what happens if I don't? That is something you have to talk to your DMC about. But one of the pieces of advice I give is to make sure your per person price covers the minimum amount of guests, which would be the higher cost, right? If you are going to charge $5,000 a person for 12 people and $4,000 a person for 15, you actually should charge $5,000 for up to 15 because then that's just the flat cost. And you do have to commit in many cases to filling bare minimum for it to be considered a group with some of the DMCs. In addition to that, many DMCs aren't even willing to quote you without a deposit. Now I work directly with a DMC that charges $1,500 USD for a group like this. They are no longer quoting for free. I know I'm definitely gonna work with that company and it does go towards the balance, goes towards my deposit. Now I do charge if somebody wants a custom pre or post tour. I do charge for booking airfare. If you want me to do all of it, I charge for that. I don't charge you if you just wanna shoot me a copy of the flights that you're thinking about and you just need my opinion. So as a guest, if you're like, Marcie, I don't wanna handle any of this, I want you to do all of it, then I charge $100 per airline ticket and I charge $250 to plan pre and post extensions. But that's up to you. That's different than the main 7 nights. And those 7 nights, you have got to learn how to price appropriately for your time and energy. And that markup matters. Your time is valuable. So many of you worry so much about money. And you don't think about marketing this to your aligned client. You're worried that your aligned client won't pay. Well, my aligned clients do pay and I make $1,000 a person. It is possible to plan an inclusive, fully custom trip for a group very affordably and still do a $1,000 markup. It's also fine to charge what we would consider a crazy price. I have 2 clients from LTM that are over $10,000 per person for their trips. One's going to Japan and one's going to Africa, and they are both 75% sold out. You have to educate your people and you have to stop, quote unquote, as ChatGPT would say, playing small when it comes to pricing your experiences, especially if you're going with them. The amount of work that you will do prior, even just during the planning and research, could be 100 hours of That does not count once they're booked and all the planning you will be doing for them to make sure everything is amazing and seamless and smooth as possible, right? As much as we can control that. Your time deserves to be paid and you deserve to go for free. So you have to build in the cost of your trip if your DMC does not do a credit towards the leader. And my DMCs don't. So I build that cost in. However, I have LTM students. Mm-hmm. Who negotiated a completely free stay. So it's not built into the trip. They're getting it for free. I genuinely want you to take seriously the commitment to the marketing. I've said it 1,000 times on this episode, but if you do not market this trip 7 to 10 times more than you think you should, it is going to be hard for you to sell out a trip. I have learned. From the many mistakes I have made, that ultimately anything that happens that turns out to be something that I don't like is because I've bent my own rules, or I did not set appropriate expectations for my guests, which means I did not market it well, or I did not know that I needed to tell people this. That is how you have to do. Trial and error. And in trial and error, you have to have money because sometimes the mistakes I have made are financial. And in one case, I had to make a horrific phone call that I did not want to make to have a really uncomfortable conversation with one of my guests prior to going on the trip. It matters how you communicate and you cannot control everything, but you can control how you prepare. Setting your own expectations for yourself and your team and the people that you hire to help you. You have to have money to run a business. You have to invest in the right people to make sure you're protected. And then you have to spend a shitload of time having a strategy to attract the right people to your group. If your head is like spinning off its neck right now, I understand. This was one of the toughest episodes I actually have ever done. But I want you to take this seriously, and I wanted to make sure that I delivered the information as clearly as possible. I am going to do a part two, and we're going to dive more into the fun conversations next time. I really hope that you were able to take away something of quality today, especially considering I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an accountant, and I'm not an insurance agent. Everything that I teach comes from personal experience. It comes from years of fucking up, of making mistakes, of not having the right amount of money in my bank account. And the more I do things, the more I'm willing to share. But so much of this is you have to pause the excitement piece, the I want this piece, slow down and build this out the right way so that you can have a profitable, repeatable hosted groups business. And I go deep, deep into this in Lead the Manifest. In every single step I teach you. It is the most robust training because unfortunately, even in 2 podcast episodes, I am not going to be able to teach you everything, nor would that be fair to those who invest in my course. But also get on my email list because I send an abundance of informative business-based emails. And when Lead the Manifest for spring 2027 launches, you will be first in the know because guess what? You'd be on my waitlist. I hope you have a great day, guys. Love you. Bye. Hey y'all, this is the end of another No BS Travel Advisor podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I am Marcie Muensterman and I am not your lawyer. I am not your accountant. That is my disclaimer. I am a coach and mentor with 20 years of sales experience. And if you love this episode, please leave me a 5-star review because it means so much to me. If you have any questions, you also know you can hit me up in the DMs at any time. All right, guys, love you. Bye! Bye!