Redrop: Melissa Esposito - Show Up Imperfectly Anyway

This is the No BS Travel Advisor Podcast. I'm Marcie Muensterman, and this show is for travel advisors who wanna run profitable businesses, charge what they're worth, and stop following outdated bullshit advice just because someone in the industry told them that that is the way it has always been done. Each episode brings real talk, practical strategies, and real stories from fellow travel advisors, because sometimes the best way to learn is hearing how someone else figured their shit out. So let's get Hey y'all. Today's guest has been in the industry for almost a decade and she's living proof that you can build a business your way without selling your soul. She also has ADHD. So for all of you ADHD agents out there, this is a good one for you to listen to. Just speed it up because I know how you are. A mom of 2 teenagers. So we have a lot in common. We're going through it together. Married and the breadwinner in her family. She almost walked away during COVID as did the rest of us. But instead she doubled down. So proud of her, took control, and now she's rocking destination weddings like a pro. I'm so pumped she's here. Please welcome Melissa Esposito from Vacations by Melissa. How are you today?

Good. Hello.

I'm so pumped you're here. I am too. This is awesome. Okay. Before we talk travel, I just have to say, like, how is raising 2 teenagers who probably also have ADHD? Mine do. So I'm like, we're all just hot mess.

So the one, my one teenager, so I have like a, a tween, very much almost a teenager, and then a full-on teenager. And my teenager was, uh, officially diagnosed this summer with ADHD.

Okay.

Which I felt like I probably knew since the child was 4.

Of course.

So like, you know, but But like, you can't do that for, I mean, I personally wasn't like diagnosed until I was 19, 20. So like, whatever.

I think I was 37.

Okay.

So I got him diagnosed like way earlier.

Yes.

Way earlier.

Once you realize like, oh, that's like, once I learned like, this is not, not everybody has to feel like this in their brain all of the time. Like, that's really helpful. So that has actually helped him a lot. And how is raising my teenagers? Ask me which day. Today? Okay. 3 days ago? I was like, I was like legit, like I am filled with rage and this is not who I want to be.

Do you feel like, do you feel like though, like this is how I feel, obviously very different. Everybody warned me about having teenagers, but actually I feel like I've stumbled into kind of my favorite season because we can have real conversations. Like I'm not arguing with a 6-year-old about getting in the car and going somewhere. It's like, Max, we have to be somewhere at this time. Set your alarm on your phone. Like it feels like easier in my opinion, most days. Obviously the attitude is there and there's lots of independent thoughts, but like, I know.

I am not going through that.

I know I got lucky, I guess. I had a hard time when they were little. Like I had a hard, hard time.

Yeah. I don't, I don't really like, like baby stages, but I actually really loved like 4 to 10. I'm like, those years were magical for me. Like, cause they're cute enough, but I was like, you know, I could talk to them, always have talked to them about everything. And they, but they were like still sweet. At the time, like they weren't, we weren't like angsty and stuff, which is where I think we're at now. Um, the other thing is like, and I know this about myself, the way my parents raised me, and it's going like this with our kids too. Like we, I am not, I might be likable, but I'm not like the most easygoing person. So like me and my husband are kind of like this, like I care about what I want. I, I'm opinionated. I'm like, my husband will say I'm a contrarian. I don't like to go with the flow and I have kids like that. And so it's like, I'm raising independent. minded children who are turning into independent—

I love that about you.

Exactly. It's a great thing. And I think it's going to work out well when they're adults. Like, I hope so. But like going through it, you're like, well, I am not, I did not raise my kids to just like obey just because of whatever it is.

Right.

Me either. So, but then it's like, then I constantly am questioned with the why. Well, why do I have to do it this way? Well, I can find this other better way. And it's like, sometimes I just want to be like, just do what I say.

Oh my gosh. Okay. I do feel that in my soul. I do feel that for sure. And mine, I don't know about yours, but mine are very like opposite. So like Jude is hyper-organized. She knows her next thing. She sets her alarm. She doesn't like to be late. Max is just sort of like la-di-da. And I'm always like, dude, we need to get going. And actually you will laugh at this. I have been sick for the last few days and they have had kind of ups and downs. 'Cause it started with Jude. Eric got it and Max didn't officially get it. I got it. And then he totally came in last night and was like, I don't feel good. I don't think I wanna go to school tomorrow. And Jude had a half day and I was like, neither one of 'em are going to school. This was like my life. I'm too sick. I don't wanna do the car line this morning and then go get her half day. Like it's such a waste of my day. So I just was like, I don't care. Well, then I tell Jude and she's like, I don't know if I wanna miss school. And then Max was like, I'm definitely gonna miss school. So.

Yeah.

They're just opposites, like in every aspect. I don't know if yours are like that too.

100% the opposite. And mine are the same. Like my older one, my Dominic, is yes, very like la-dee-da, what do I want to do right now? He's the ADHD one, you know, and very emotional and very like, then when he has something he doesn't want to do, he just wants to get it done really, really quick. Doesn't really care about that, you know?

Yes.

And then my other one, Vincent, is also— and Dominic is not like, he's not, he wasn't really big into sports, didn't play like instruments. It's like Not his thing. He doesn't have a lot of those, like, extracurricular things he's really into, and it's fine. And so sometimes that struggle. My younger one, Vincent, literally into everything. So he plays piano and viola and the— not the trumpet, what is he? Oh, the saxophone. And he's in choir and he's in baseball and he goes to fitness club. And he— so like everything all the time. But the problem is that he— and he's in the musical. He wants to be the very best at every single thing the very minute that he starts it.

I know.

And he gets very angry if he's not.

That is so interesting. She's like that too. She's super high achieving. She just started playing volleyball like a month ago and decided to go out for the 8th grade volleyball team, made the team. If she's not starting, if she's not like in there every— I'm like, dude, you just started. Like, but luckily she's talented enough. Like, yes, she's a prime player, but it's still just, I agree. Like what, like her teachers are wonderful, but the one thing they always say about her is like, she is harder on herself than she is on her teammates. herself than they could ever be, because if she gets something wrong, she like wants to hash it out and figure it out before she moves on. And Max is like, I got a C, bitches. I'm good. Okay. It's just interesting. I think sometimes when you're being raised by the same parents, and the other day I watched a video and it said there are no 2 children who have the exact same childhood, even in the same home.

Yeah.

Because we cannot raise our children the same way. And I just think that is so— I was like, that is so true. Like your experience with your family and how you take in the world.

So I think—

So funny.

And exactly. So our kids are very similar, like the older and the younger. And then I think the other thing that I have to keep on reminding myself as I struggle through is like everything they do is not my fault or responsibility. Like my kids are becoming adults. Like they are not— we're get— they're getting to be adults and like they're not yet, but like you don't go from being like 3 years old where like when your kid is like Like beating everybody else up and you're like, oh, well, is it, you know, when people say it's the parent's fault, like whatever. And I'm like, when my kids do things right or wrong, it's not always really my full fault and responsibility. 'Cause that's where I take it really personal with things. And I have to be like, sometimes again, 2 kids, totally different personalities. Like these are the qualities of their personalities too. Like some of these things are just who they are. And I have to be like, okay, I can't fix every single thing.

Yeah. I think too, we have to just realize that there are consequences and we have to teach them the consequences. It's not about teaching them how to be perfect all the time and not ever make a bad decision or make a mistake. It's about how do you deal with those mistakes on your own?

Mm-hmm.

You know, and how are you speaking to your teachers and how, you know, we keep getting these emails from his teachers at high school, like they're very disruptive during class. And my husband's like, is Max disruptive during class? If Max is disruptive during class, we will address it. Otherwise, you cannot send these blanket emails. to 400 parents and expect us to know. Because I'll eventually talk to Max about it. I'll be like, are you being disruptive in X's class? And he's like, no, Mom, I sit in the front row and I answer every question.

Right.

So it's like, then, but then am I the parent that's not doing my job because I'm not like, hey, well, make sure everybody else is following the rules. It's like, dude, we don't get to control how our kids act outside of us, especially at this age. I feel like at this age it's They are making decisions that are different. But I think what I've always, what I'm starting to take away from parenting teenagers again is like, I can have real conversation. We can talk to Max. We can discuss the thing. We can like understand disappointment. We can say no in a different way. Like there's just, it's not just like, here, have a lollipop and shut the fuck up.

No, no.

Let's have an actual conversation, which is why I think I enjoy it.

Mm-hmm.

And last night I was like, parenting hack, there's a new update to your iPhone and it is really cool, but overwhelming. So I was like, Max, Jude, like what's going on with the new iPhone update? They literally sat down and showed me everything on my phone for an hour. And I was like, this is the best way to spend time with your kids. Just ask them how to use your phone because otherwise you're going to end up being like, how was your day? Fine. Which, how was math class? Fine. Did you pass your test? I don't know. You know, it's like, I need more. And so I'm starting to find like little connective, which is kind of how we have to be with our clients. Like, what do you think of this? How do you feel about that? Pulling it out of them anyway. So.

That's funny.

Well, I love that. I love that we have so much in common. We talk all the time and I really enjoy our relationship. So I'm just pumped you're here. But, um, let's like talk more about you and how you got into travel and what else you're doing. Cause I know you volunteer. And you're married. So besides, you know, all the normal things, like what is going on with you and your business?

Um, okay. So should I start from the beginning of my story?

Yes. I mean, you've been doing this 9 years, so I mean, a long enough time to be like considered a veteran in our field. I think 5+ years.

Isn't that wild to think about?

Veteran. It goes by fast.

It does. Well, and especially I feel like there's a whole new, like, there's like, were you a, were you an agent? Did you do this before COVID or did you start after?

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, it's like, it's like the, it's like the, did you, it's like, did you grow up with the internet or not? Like it is, it's a completely different reality for people who started in the boom, you know, in 2022 when I'm like, okay, cool. Well, things, well, things are getting tough right now for you. Like, okay, sorry, dude. Like, yes, I know it was tough.

You have seen nothing. You have no idea. We don't respect like the new vibe of who's coming in, but there is like Those of us, it's BC, it's the new BC. If you went through COVID as a travel advisor and survived, it is a totally different energy than if you chose, hey, I really want to be a travel advisor in 2022. It's just a different energy. So we're all a little bit, it's not that we're better or anything, but it's just a different energy that we bring to the business, I think.

100% agree. So I started in, so I was a hairstylist for 22 years, so like I don't think I knew that.

I love that.

Yeah. I started, I started before 9/11. I was the, like, I was just talking about it the other day. My son had to ask like, where were you on 9/11 and whatever? And I was like, hmm, I was working at the salon that I worked at for half of my life. So I was, I went right out of high school. I went to beauty school and then I worked at the same salon for 22 years. I loved it. I had a, it was a great job. I think the, I don't, I didn't ever like super love doing hair. I liked it and I was good at it, but I loved I've always loved talking to people individually.

Yes.

Like this, like, you know, you have a hairstylist, you understand, like, there is like a deep relationship that you make.

Of course I have a hairstylist. I'm a blonde.

Yes!

I used to be really blonde naturally. Now, you know, over the years it's just gotten darker, so now I have to maintain, and it takes 3 and a half hours to do my hair. So.

Exactly.

Obviously I have a hairstylist and we are in a relationship.

You're in a relationship with your hairstylist.

We're in it.

That's how you're there.

Correct.

Exactly. And that, I think that was like, those are the skills that probably like are the very best. They're, that's probably the skills that I have best for my sales now at this point. Like why I love sales calls, like why I have like, just because I just love getting to know people individually and connecting with them and stuff. Yeah. That's, and that's probably the only part I miss of doing hair. But anyway, I did hair for all those years. So in '19, I had a couple of, a couple of People that I knew from the salon who one of them had like, she was actually doing travel, you know, wherever. And I was planning my— no, that's not 2019, 2016. So it started in 2014. She planned my first Disney trip and then in 2015 she planned my next one. And then in 2016 she started her own agency.

Okay.

So when she started her own agency, she brought along another girl also from my salon. And they asked me to be, um, to be in their, uh, in their agency. And I was like, I don't know how to sell travel. Like, they were like, you already know how to plan Disney trips. So we'll help you figure out how to make money from it.

The gateway drug of literally, I feel like 75% of travel advisors is I love Disney. I want to plan Disney trips.

That's it. That's it.

Nothing wrong with it. I'm not judging it. I just waited a long time to learn how to travel. how to plan Disney, and I was forced into it. Yeah, it was a different avenue to learning it, but I know that Disney's a great gateway drug. It really is for our community.

It is. It is. And now when other people— I'm like, great, go do Disney, enjoy it, stay there for a while.

Do not call me. I know someone who does that.

I am always like, trust me, I got some people for you now.

I have all the people. Yes, 100%. Yeah. I love that.

So, um, so that was 2016 and that was very much like a part-time thing. And then, um, I still did hair and I did, so I worked in a salon, but I also did, um, destination weddings. I did wedding hair, like onsite.

Okay.

It's just like a referral kind of a business. Some of my clients would get married and they wanted to be, you know, um, or their, their kids were getting married or whatever, and at the hotel nearby. So I started doing a lot of that on the side too. And continued that all for, you know, for several years. And—

I love watching those wedding hair videos.

Oh yeah.

On TikTok, I get sucked in and then you watch one and then it's just like constantly giving you them. And I'm like, why do I sit here to watch the reveal every time? And when they don't reveal, I'm like, wait, where did I need to see the reveal? They're my favorite. They are.

They actually, it's so funny. One of the girls that I That was like super new. And I took her with me on some jobs doing hair. She then started up on her own and she got into like getting really, really, really good at her craft and became like an influencer on it. And now she— and I'm so proud of her. Like, she's awesome.

You'll have to drop her little link and like shout her out.

I will. I will.

Give her like a little boost. What's her name?

Her name is Marissa. Well, it was Brennan, but she just, she, she got married last year. So it's Marissa. Oh my gosh. What does she call herself now? I'll definitely put her link in there. Yeah, send me the link and I'll And she's also—

we love hair videos.

Yes. And so she actually does. So she, she used to have so many. You can go back and look at all her ones. She'd be like, style my bride with me. And she's so—

I will totally binge that. You can binge that. Yeah.

And then of course, if there's anybody who is like— so she has like, she's positioned herself in that industry like you here, which I think is really cool. So she has, she's like bridal— she started her like Bridal Boss Academy, like teaching Ooh. Teaching people how to be good at that and like turn it into a really like thriving business, you know?

Love that.

Yeah, it's really cool. So I'm like so excited.

The education side of these industries have changed so much since you and I started. And I love that because it's not just that you're getting education from like a host company or a salon. You're literally able to learn from your colleagues who have been through the same experiences. And I think that really changes the game when you're having real conversations.

It's so like. relatable too. It's like, it's so much more— I mean, yeah, it's cool.

It's cool.

So I will, I will definitely drop her.

Definitely drop Marissa a link because I love a hair video. I'm obsessed. And sometimes I use those as inspiration photos for my hair colors because I love like how the colors blend when the hair is done and curled. And like, I'm just obsessed. I'm almost surprised I didn't go into styling, but I don't think I like people quite as much as stylists have to enjoy Yes, Jen. People, you know, I love them like this. I don't know if you hear about the other day, you were kind of talking about how you were like really anxious just working from home and wanting to get out in the world, but didn't, don't you guys have a coffee shop?

Yeah. Yeah. So we do.

Oh, is that a good way for you to like get some people-y? Yes.

And it's so yesterday I did actually, you know, Jen Gemberling, right? Yes, I did actually. She said, Marcie just told me to tell, to apply. I was like, you should.

I love Jen. She came to Momentum. We got to know each other. She's just incredible.

I love her too. I love her too. She and I are going away together in January.

Um, love it. And you guys met at your coffee shop, like the TA thing?

We met on one of your groups somewhere and she was like, I'm also from, you know, your area. And I was like, come to my coffee shop. And she was like, I wanna learn dusty sweaties. And I was like, come be my friend. And I just like literally invited her into work.

She's the fucking best. And I love, I love that. I love that you guys have connect. That's my favorite part of the, of the Maximize community.

Yeah.

Like it is literally, I mean, I'm obsessed with that part of it, just that you guys meet up and hang out. And you're just like, oh, I live there too. And then you get together. That sounds great. I'm so obsessed with that. So sorry. OK, so Disney 2016. We'll come back to this because I still want to talk about it. But I just want to make sure I keep a little bit on track.

Yeah.

Oh, I know.

Seriously, these 2 brains will just—

Yes, we're in trouble for the rest of the hour.

Seriously. That's all right. I know. I'm like, this is where I would be like— I'll even tell my people when I'm leaving them a message. If I'm getting to— just put me on like 3 times speed.

You can get to the point.

Absolutely.

It's all good.

It's no problem. So, okay. So back to my story, 2016. So like for the next few years I did, uh, you know, I took the same path like everybody. Oh, I've learned some cruises, did some Sandals and Beaches, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, um, then got into a little bit more of those Mexico and Caribbean and I ended up with a couple of weddings. So one was like my cousin who got married.

Okay.

Um, and she ended up having like a wedding at Sandals. So I learned a whole lot I had to deal with there on very early, like a year into this business, having a, what turned out to be like a 75-person wedding in a country Wow. I'd never been to at a sample.

That's a hell of a commission though. Oh my gosh.

It would have been.

Some of the best, some of the best commission.

It would have been.

Oh, shit. What happened? Yeah.

I mean, it was, but it would have been really good now. Like, so.

Oh, there wasn't good commission split at that time?

Well, I wasn't.

Okay.

Yeah. So.

I understand.

For those next 3 years of like doing this, I, I started to find like Like, again, I don't, as my husband tells me, not very good at working for other people or following other people's plans in this world.

Wow.

So I'm a big time—

That's my own conundrum. That's, that's why we're here, girl.

Exactly.

Like the epitome, I think, of so many travelers.

Yeah.

I don't think they realize it when they become a travel advisor that they are craving that independence.

Yes.

Like it's not just, oh, I wanna book Disney or I wanna do this. It's, I need some autonomy in my life. I need some control.

Yeah. So, yeah. And so I kind of like, I told you, like, I'm a little, I'm, well, you know, I'm like a relationship builder. And when I meet people, I just want to like connect people. And so I did just naturally. I started like, I had somebody who wanted to go to a Hard Rock. And so I was like, I'm going to find this BDM. And so like I found who was still, he's still like a friend and he is still my, one of my favorite BDMs, different company now, but Ashley. And I found him and was like, please come meet my, this agency. And like, I would just start, I would just start making BDM connections and making friends. And you know what I mean? Like, yeah, as we should. Right, right. Yes. And so like, long story short, my husband for the next 3 years continually would be like, can you just do this all by yourself? Like, cause you, you complain about a lot of things and you're really right about it. And I was like, no, I can't. I know I can't. And then so magically I met this woman, Vicki, who is is one of the greatest humans who ever existed. I love her very much.

Yeah.

I did her— her son got married and I did the hair for her future daughter or her daughter-in-law today. Um, so I did her hair. I met her. It was so random. I didn't even know her daughter-in-law. It was like a weird situation. So I meet this mother-in-law and I'm doing her hair on the wedding day and she's so sweet and she says, you know, I, I plan travel and this And I was like, oh, I just started.

Here I am.

Like, I just started doing that too. Like, and do you know, she was like, you know, try this supplier and I suggest you get involved in this and whatever. And here's my number if you're ever interested, if you ever have any questions. And I was thinking, you didn't even look at me as competition. She just was like—

I love that.

Right. She was just like, yeah, I can just help. So like—

You meet one advisor like that.

Mm-hmm.

One who is just like, here's all the stuff you might need. I can help you. It changes your entire life. It changes your entire business. It opens up like, because there's so much protection around, oh, you know, the, like where I always say it's not a secret, but somehow it's been secretly being held close to the chest. Like information is out there, but it's like, if you can have a little gateway to getting it, it just changes your life. And then you can pass that on to another advisor.

Exactly.

But like, that is not how we're taught. Usually. So I love that she did that for you.

She did. And so over the course of those next, so 2016 till 2019, essentially when I needed help, I would often reach out to my friend Vicki, you know? Um, and like that was, she was the one who really was very helpful through that, that time. And so again, by the end, by the time of 2019 came around and, you know, just like a couple of things that had happened, I would sometimes find out later Like, there was something to apply for and nobody told me, like that kind of stuff, you know?

Yeah.

It was just like, okay, it was just whatever. So I could feel it. Like I was ready to be something on my own. And so Vicki was actually like, she was, used to be what I am now. So she was her own LLC. She was completely independent, but she did have a host, like a true host. So she was like under a, um, a small host agency, but she had decided that host was like super involved in cruises and she just wanted to do some different other kinds of things. She wanted to be in different weddings and honeymoons and stuff. And so she decided to go all in and get her own Ayada just herself. She was like, didn't want any agents or anything. She just was like, exactly.

That's where I am right now. Yeah.

She was like, it's just time. And so she, and like a miracle, she called me up at exactly a moment that I was really struggling mentally. And she said, just want to, uh, I'm, I'm going out on my own and I don't want to build an agency and I don't want to train people and I don't want to do all that. But I would like to bring you, if you're interested, um, I would take you on at, I think I can say the number, right? I can say whatever I want.

All right.

She offered me 95% off the bat. No fees.

Yeah. Wow.

That's so nice.

It was just like helping her build her numbers, right? Exactly.

She said, just, it will just give us a little more power in, um, negotiation. Exactly.

Because we were booking a lot of the same things at the time anyway. So, and then you can talk to your BDM and they can advocate for you to have those higher commissions with that specific supplier, which is a game changer for smaller companies because, you know, it doesn't always make sense to be on your own. Yeah. So it was almost like you were business partners versus—

And that's what she has always said. So she said to me though, she said, here's the deal. You have to go get your own LLC. I don't want you, you have to get your own terms and conditions. You have to be your own business. But like, basically that's exactly what she said.

Which is what you need, which is what you should be doing. Yes. It needs to be independent. You need to be Vacations by Melissa.

Exactly.

I love a simple name, by the way. I love how direct it is. We are not confused. No one. We are not. You know, Melissa, it's like Sand and Sunshine Travel. Like, I can't. I know.

I'm always like, was it?

Then you can do whatever you want.

It was. It's true. It was the dumbest, quickest name ever. I was like—

No, it's not dumb. It's specific.

It works.

It's direct.

It is clear.

It tells you what you do. I am obsessed. I'm, yeah, I'm the travel advisor Marcie. That's literally my LLC. That's true.

That's true. That works. I know mine's Vacation by Melissa Incorporated.

I love it though. And if you wanna DBA it with some like cutesy names, you can, but nobody is looking for that. Like it's so, I don't know, like whenever I think about names and I don't think we've ever talked about this on the podcast because I don't wanna offend anybody, but well, I don't know that that's not true. I'll offend people.

It's fun.

But I meant like, I don't wanna hurt people's feelings deliberately, but sometimes I'm like, who is searching for that? No one is searching for that. But if your name is in the name and your name is in your SEO searchability, LinkedIn, um, Instagram now will pull it up. You've got your Google searches, your website, like you're going to be more findable.

Yeah.

With a name that is more direct. And it just doesn't make sense to me sometimes when it's like apothecary travel. It's like, hey, no one can spell apothecary. I don't even know if I'm pronouncing that right. And secondly, what does that even mean? Like, it's like, I don't want to hurt people's feelings, but I'm like, remember, if they can't spell it, they can't find it. That's right. That's right. If they can't say it, they can't find it. If they can't, you know, it's—

They can't remember it.

It's like simple. Yeah. They can't remember it. And then, and then Just simple is better, guys. That's, we'll just leave it at that. But I love Vacations by Melissa. I love that you were just like, I had to go get one. That's what I chose.

Yeah. It was like today. It was like, we're doing this right now. Yeah. I went to like my accountant and I was like, okay, can you help me? Like, and he was like, yep. All right. What do you want to call it?

And I was like, knock it out. Yes, girl.

I'm so proud of you.

And I know that that jump, even though it was like easy to make, it was scary, right? Like you're making a huge change. It's a lot of paperwork. It's a lot of Stuff that you'd never had to do before.

Yeah. Oh, it totally was. And then it was like, you know, and then it was all of the steps as far as like, for quite a while I didn't have my own like website. I had to learn a whole new CRM. I mean, I could have done whatever I wanted, but she did offer, she said, you can use whatever you want, but I already pay for VCRM and I'm going to pay for you to have, you know, a login. All you have to do is put in for getting your commissions, but it's a really good program and you're welcome to use it. And of course it was like super overwhelming because everybody who knows who's ever had to learn a new CRM who never used it before, it can be like super overwhelming.

Well, I'm learning one right now.

Oh, you're learning Tractify, right?

Yes. And my brain hurts. Like I'm doing all the trainings and actually Sam is also doing all the trainings so he can become my tech wizard for the agents. But yeah, like I love it. I think it's a great system, but like just learning something new at my age also, I just realized my brain does not absorb the information the same. Painful sometimes. Like, I'm like, oh, I can't take another training on this. Sam! So I'm like, can you take this and explain it to me like I'm 5?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

And I— and that's exactly why I don't switch at this point, because like, we actually just had this whole discussion yesterday about Travel Joy, Tern, and all the other things. And I'm like, there's so many great options, but I'm like, for right now, it's not— for me, it's not broken. So I, I'm not gonna fix it because I have tested all of the other ones for like a month or so and I just get so overwhelmed. Um, and I think back to 2019 when I went through all this the first time and I was like, okay, this is still fine. We're, we're not—

You're not just moving your brain. You're like literally moving your entire client base into a new system, into, and, and trusting that that information is secure. I don't know, just the whole systematic processes of moving the administrative, literally, Melissa, the reason I've never had my own agency, I in any of that. It's because I did not want to do the paperwork.

Yes.

I did not want to sign up with all the vendors. I did not wanna get 25 fucking 1099s at the end of the year. Like I avoided it for so long until it became just impossible to avoid anymore if I wanted to stay on TA because of all the drama I caused last year. But like truly, I was forced into it because I just didn't want to switch. And I like the host company I was with had a bomb-ass CRM. And so getting all that information out and just moving it has been traumatizing.

Yes.

Feel this in my soul that you're like, good.

Yes. I'm like, I'm good until it goes out of business. Like I'm done.

And God forbid if it goes out of business, like before I retire.

I know.

I know.

Well, I'm like, at least I'm like, well, one-third of the industry is on the same one as I am. So like, we're probably, probably going to be okay.

You know? Yeah. Same over here with Travel Joy. I'm like, it's good. It's been around forever. It's a really solid option. I know that there's other choices. I could have made. And, but I just, I didn't make those. So.

I actually, it's, um, I was just telling another friend of ours in our little circle that when she was just, she just left her and started her own. And I said from the beginning, I was like, I would go with Travel Joy if I wanted to, if I was starting tomorrow brand new, this is what I would go with, but I'm not going to. I tested it for a little while and I was like, this is really nice. But I, again, not worth it.

It's definitely got, it's, uh, like there's no perfect CRM. I don't care what they Anyone says about the culty one. It is a hard— it's culty.

It's real culty.

And I love here, I love all my agent friends, but sometimes I'm like, y'all are in a cult and you don't even know. And it's only because they got in so early that they're like obsessive. And it's like, that's great for you, but you can't always change somebody's mind. And like, I did test, like, it doesn't matter. I don't dislike It's not me hating on something. It's just literally like sometimes you guys got in so early on it that now, and they are doing great things.

They are.

They're literally killing it.

I agree.

But I'm like, I need something a little bit more simplistic. And I really found that in Travel Joy. And then they really do have a wonderful groups option. Like if you do group, if you do destination weddings, I really feel strongly and passionately that if you are starting that now, especially Travel Joy is the best choice out there.

I agree.

So it's like, they don't, I, I am not be— I do not even have an affiliate link, y'all. I just, I believe in sharing the experiences and the research and the, for me, and I'm older, I'm, I'm now 45. Like, I feel like my brain can handle it even though I just complained. It's, it's just because it's new.

Right.

For me. But I think anyone who has been using it for 3 or 4 years is probably like, Marcie, it gets easier, just like everything. We do. But yeah, so anyway, another tangent, but I love that we were talking about this. I haven't really, we have not really discussed CRMs on the pod, so it's always good to touch base on that. And, but I really understand what you're saying. Like, it was like, okay, we made this big move. It was a big deal to move everybody over to your new CRM, your new agency. And then obviously COVID happened.

Right. So it was like, so here was the worst for me. So in 2019, I spent that whole year, me and Vicki, I'm, I'm servicing the rest of my bookings in the old one. So then, you know, anybody who's ever changed a host agency knows you've got a while that you have 2 everything. You have this—

Wow. For almost like, it can be like a year and a half.

Exactly. Right. And so, but, um, so, so this was January of 2019. So I start this entire year of 2019 where I'm like, now I'm on my own and I'm like, I'm, I'm excited. I—

Let's go. Yeah.

Hmm. I was going to have, Vicki and I were like, oh, 2020 is going to be the best year that we've ever done in travel. Amazing.

Like all the things we were, we were all thinking that like travel was on the rise. I had come back in 2018 after 3 years off.

Mm-hmm. Right.

And was killing it. My 2020 sales were insane. So I, I feel this in my soul right now.

And we all, we all know how the story goes. And it was, it was just devastating over and over and over again. I really remember it's not like you You might, people who didn't live through it, like think back and, or like think back and look at the time and they're like, oh, that was a rough period of time. And I'm like, no, it was like a rough continually, like month after month. And I actually—

Almost 2 years.

Almost 2 years. And I actually felt like in 2021, I was almost more traumatized because I started to get, because remember, remember we would get to like early 2021 and you were like, well, people are going to actually start to travel again. Right. And then you'd be like, something would happen. be like, I, I can't do this again. I can't re-cancel this shit again. Like, I, I, I can feel myself, like, I can feel the intensity.

I know. I was getting goosebumps when you started talking about it. I'm like, okay. We haven't really talked about 2021 and what 2021 did was gave us hope and then took it away, gave us hope and took it away.

Exactly.

That's a good point. I forgot. I kind of blacked that out.

Same. It wasn't until this moment that I was like, uh, 2020, there was almost something to— 2021 was like, this is you.

Like, we knew, I think we all came to terms with 2020 around June, July. Yeah. We knew it was over.

Yeah.

We knew our year was over. We knew it was fucked. We knew we were gonna have to either get another job or live off of our savings. Um, I think with 2021, when things started to open back up very slowly, I think it gave us that like tether of hope. Mm-hmm. And then it would be taken away or we would send somebody away and they would get COVID. COVID and they couldn't get home. And it was just like, I don't think I sold a traveling vacationer until October of '21 after I had canceled all of 2020. And I had 5 weddings in 2020 that I had to move and I moved them to '21. And then most of them got married in '22. It was so sad, girl. I, I think that probably was the nail in the coffin for me when it came to weddings. But I don't think I acknowledged it until just now.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I know 2021, I really did block outta my mind, but it was bad. Really bad.

You're bringing it back. It's like therapy sessions.

Exactly.

How did you survive? And are you okay now? It's like, I'm okay, I think.

I know, I know. And then before, and then, but you know what? The other thing is I just remember people who weren't in the industry all being like, but you just wait, it's gonna come back with a vengeance. It's gonna bounce back so strongly. I'm like, perfect. Do you wanna tell that to my mortgage in the meantime? Like, that sounds awesome. Like, ugh.

You cannot get back the— that always pissed me off too. And it made me, my skin crawl because I agree with you, Melissa. Like, yes, it was bouncing back. Yes, they were coming back to travel, but we had lost not 2 years of our life, but whatever you were planning for a year to 18 months prior to 2020, we booked so far out. Like, I'm already half booked for 2026.

Yeah.

Like, I've started booking 2026 a couple months ago. I know agents who book up to 2028. Yesterday somebody asked, what do you do with these 2027ers who won't pull the trigger? And I'm like, I'm good. Like, I don't need anybody booking 2027 right now because I don't wanna book too far ahead.

I booked my first 2027 wedding.

You did? Okay. So just, you're already booking that time. So that's 2 years from now. Imagine if all of that is taken away and then it takes another 2 years to recover. You don't get your time back, which is our most valuable resource. And don't talk to me about the fucking money because the money is The money gonna come. is fucking gone. There was no money to begin with. We weren't charging fees then.

Yeah.

You know, and the cancellation policies were in line with consumers as they should be.

Right.

But that meant we got nothing, like $0.

Yep.

For almost 2 years. It was bad. You can't make that up. Like, it, it doesn't come back. So you have to be resilient.

Yes.

And obviously we are.

Yeah.

Even though we're like cranky, but we're resilient. Exactly.

Somehow we stick through it.

But it's true.

It's true.

And I think that's why a lot of agents did retire or leave the industry or close their doors and maybe took some time off. I talked to Chassidy last week and she took some time off, you know, during that time. And that was probably a really good move.

Yeah. I didn't necessarily take off, but I was still doing hair. And so I was like, stayed more focused on that. Like, so that was lucky for me that I still had both. Like it wasn't until, so moving along in my timeline, um, by By 2022, you know, things are starting to pick up or whatever, end of '21, beginning of '22, I guess I had some people were like, hey, could you book my destination wedding? And I was like, no, mm-mm, we just got through this. It just, the cancels and the reschedules and then the broke it down to, oh, 14 people came to the wedding and, um, all these different, like, I was like, no, I'm done. Like, this was, this was terrible. I'm never doing this again.

that again.

And then they were like, you know, sweet clients of mine whose trips I had planned in the past and I really liked them. And I was like, okay, maybe. So, and then, you know, like long story, super short, I would— that's what led me to Destination Wedding University, to Will. I heard about Will from Vicki.

I talked to Will. And I know that you love Destination Wedding University.

I do. I do. And that, that enlightened me and changed a lot of my perspective. And again, I was able to see, oh, this is a bunch of people like Vicki. Vicki was in it at the time and she had kind of stopped doing destination weddings and she was just like, let's, I'm just gonna give them to you. I just wanna do these honeymoons instead. But she's like, yeah, join this thing. I did it with this Will Medina and he's so sweet and you would love him cuz he's all about the community and that, you know, instead of competition. And mm-hmm. I got right in and I was like, oh, again, having started in a, there's plenty of people in this industry still that that are much more competition over community. There are, they do still exist. There's plenty. They do.

Well, I mean, I would say the majority, I would say the majority is like that.

I mean, I don't know because like maybe because the people that I surround myself with.

Well, you're going to attract what you are, Melissa, and you are community.

Yes.

You know, and I do think when you surround yourself with people that have that same energy, that's what you're going to attract. But I absolutely think that there is a significant portion of our community that is still very competitive for no No reason, but they just can't—

no reason. No, it's like they just, that's all they know, I guess. Anyway, no need to, no need to give them any more airtime.

No.

They, but that, so then starting then 2023, um, I decided that was my like, okay, I'm really back in on travel. And so I decided, actually, really my husband told me like, okay, I will support you in all this that you want to do. Like you want to do this, like the university, you want to take on the weddings, you want to travel to Mexico all the time. But you can do that, but you can't also go work at the salon 2 days a week. Like it's too much.

Yeah.

You're like—

I actually do kind of remember this stage of your career because I think it's right around the time we connected. And I do recall that you were leaving the salon and nervous about that steadier income.

Of course. Yeah.

And doing travel full-time.

Yep. And that, at that time, my husband was like fully employed, working from home, making a good income. He did not like his job at all whatsoever, but it made plenty of money and he was here. So it did give me that time to be able to build my business. So it worked out well for all of that, but it was, it was that early 2023. Um, so I did end up taking the leap, quit hair altogether, which again was like, fine. I had gotten down to only 2 days a week. Again, my body's getting older. I was starting to find like after doing like 8 hours a day at the salon and then the next day I was like a zombie, um, for my family. And then I'm like working on all this travel stuff and like, it was just, it was just too much.

And just Burning it at both ends because they're both sales jobs. They're both very intensive. They're both people-y.

Yes.

So like being very empathetic, having to be a good listener, it's a lot of mental energy, especially for women with ADHD. But we also thrive in those types of environments. So I know you were killing it. Like, I know that you had started to book a lot more weddings. We had, we had met at that point.

Yeah.

I don't know if you know this, but you were my very first person who ever invested in the First Class Community. You like stalked it till it went on sale.

It was the day you went to Italy, right? You launched it.

Yes. I was like, Miranda, we have to get this out before I leave for my Italy trip because Melissa is stalking me. Like every day you'd be like, when's it coming? What time on the 18th? I was like, girl, I don't even know. Cause I've never done this. I was like, I don't know. And then you just purchased it. I was like, how does she know it's going to be any good? I remember just being like, What if it sucks? And you will die. But you wrote me, like, I think I got back from Italy, I don't know, like on a random Thursday. And you were like, hey, I love the course. I need a workbook. And I wrote a workbook in 24 hours for you, sent it to you privately. And then I was like, shit, now I have to upload this workbook.

All right.

And now we have a workbook. Now, and it has— For every single course that is phenomenal, but it's not like something I would use, which is why I didn't include it.

That's so funny. And I printed it and I think I still have it actually over there. That was the most ghetto workbook I have ever done, girl.

Like, it was horrid. Like, I look back on that time and I'm like, I'm so glad she thought that was pretty because it looks terri— like, Miranda and I revamped that entire course years later and like Miranda was like, what the fuck were we thinking? And I was like, girl, we were just getting it done over here. Like, the content was good, but hey, I love it.

I see. I love watching your evolution of that because you're right, it was scrappy. The information was accurate and I was like, and now I think about it, I'm like, yeah, duh. That's what happens when you take the information in from your brain. You just need to like throw it on a thing with questions, like right away, you know what I mean? Like to keep yourself in order. But yes, I mean, your stuff has become like, woof. Now you're gorgeous. Now you're like, you know, everything.

I'm not gorgeous.

Miranda.

Miranda. Miranda-ized me. I call it the Miranda-ized moment. Like, she just sees us differently. Like, you tell her what you like, you tell her who you are. And every year she's like, uh, we need to get a little grittier with your website. Like it's so it Went through another, I don't, I call it like the Botox moment. We're just like tightening it up a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah. But she's like, we need to tell more of your story. You're, you're, you know, you need to get grittier. And I'm always like, okay. And it's very uncomfortable to have somebody evaluating you constantly like that, but it's also so helpful to have an outside eye on your business.

Absolutely.

So, you know, when you were, you were my favorite because you just seemed so supportive at that time, and I didn't have anybody. I didn't have supporters. Nobody knew who I was. I think there was probably a couple hundred people in the group at the time that you were like, I'm ready to buy your stuff. And I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with her? Like, she doesn't even know me.

But you know why? You know why? So I remember I was thinking about this. How did I end up in your group in the first place? I know exactly why. You were going into the other groups and you were just like answering questions and you You're, you know, a slightly more polished version of yourself. Like, now I know, like, you were, you were still, you were still honest, but not like, not like as raw as you are now.

I get that. Wow.

But when you did, you would answer people's questions. So, you know, I, I could see your name started popping. You weren't my friend yet, but I could see your name start popping up in the things, 'cause that's how those things work in the groups.

Ooh, wow.

And so I would be like, oh, her name's there. Oh, she's answering. Oh, she's answering. And then once you said in a few different groups. I am starting, I'm going to start a course based on building a business with a Facebook group. If you want to join my free group, here it is. So you said that and I was like, yeah, sure.

When it was still allowed. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Yeah.

You're not allowed to post that shit anymore. No, of course not.

But like, there was no, yeah, there was like 100 people in there and I was like, okay. And I jumped in and because, and you've, you've said this in all your classes, You're like, if you don't think this works, look and see how you ended up here.

Like, like, so often now I'm like, guys, like you're here because of how I do this.

Exactly.

It doesn't matter what business you're building. You can really implement that strategy across, across business lines.

100%. And I was like, yeah, so that's why I got it. That's why when I was like, if you're going to teach this, if you're going to explain exactly what you do and how you do, I already know it works because I'm here and I'm watching other people land here. Like I saw exactly your funnel and how it worked. So of course I can, I'm gonna, I'm gonna trust you, you know, like it wasn't, it didn't really, I didn't even have to hesitate, honestly.

I was like, I think I just had so much imposter syndrome those early months, just like anybody starting somebody, something new. Um, a lot of people, a lot of people had brought Will into my circle, but I didn't know him. And then we lost him obviously as a community, which was horrible. And I, it happened right around the same time I was launching.

Yes.

So it was just a devastating time for the community, but it was like, in some ways what has been created was like, I know that that was his main goal was like, from what you guys have told me and from what I've learned about him over the last couple of years. And it's just like, community is so important and it doesn't matter if you buy something, it doesn't matter. You know, we want to help, we want to stop the gatekeeping and open up those conversations. So that it's easier for people to do this well, to do it well.

That's the key.

Right.

Because he wanted to, and I know you do too, to elevate the business. Because if you elevate, everybody has elevated the business.

Yes.

Then everyone trusts TAs more. Like, that is the key. When you— that's why I fucking hate the MLMs. I know you do too. And I hate them so passionately because, and I'm like, it's not the individuals that are all in there, it's the The fact that the problem is then regular old customer, you know, guests, clients everywhere, they work with some, somebody who became a TA for, you know, $40 a month and a laptop and like, but they didn't do it well and they ruined their trip. I have had this literally happen. I've had people come and tell me this and then they go, that's stupid. I should just do this myself. Like I should never use a travel advisor. They're all, oh, they're all this. Like slimy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, don't put them in my category. Like, you know?

I know, I know. It's so tough. It's, it's really tough because it's not like we don't want the industry to grow. Somebody was kind of arguing with me that this is the best way to bring people in. And I'm like, no, it is not the best way. We've been building— travel advisors have been around since the 1800s. So let's just get that straight. And it has always been a growing industry and it's not because of MLMs. It's because there used to be like hospitality tourism. And then there were travel agencies that were sitting on corners and you would learn about them. And yes, this is one way to learn, but as a travel advisor, telling other people like, here's your options, is more important than quote unquote recruiting them with basically lies.

Yes.

Like it's predatory. That's the issue. And it does make us all look bad as a whole because we're all lumped together because we're all mostly 1099 commission-based, but I was not recruited. I wanted to be become a travel advisor in 2006. I pursued it. I looked into it. You were a little bit recruited, which is a little different, but that does happen because you had all the skill sets. She, you know, recognized that you would make a good travel advisor. And that's different than somebody just predatory, like work on the side, side hustle, work in car line. Not to say that we don't do those things, cuz sometimes you have to, but the business will control you.

Yeah.

If you're trying to work it and fucking Mm-hmm. Like, that's not a real thing. You have to block time for this. You're dealing with thousands of dollars. I really hate when I see the MLMers try to plan a destination wedding. I'm like, stop the presses! Like, please take a training. Please take a course. Please get a mentor.

A mentor.

Like a real one.

Yes.

Not some person who told you they're their, your upline. They've never sold travel either. Educate yourself because you can ruin someone's wedding.

Mm-hmm.

You could ruin it. You could ruin it. I cannot. I could go on forever, so we will try not to. to do that. But yeah. So you though really transitioned into a destination wedding arena.

Mm-hmm.

You started your Facebook group. Why did you want a Facebook group? Like when you bought my course, you were diehard for the course. So I wanna know why you really wanted that for yourself. Like besides, oh, it might work for me, but like really, because I think you were getting burned out.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because mostly because I, I hate social media, uh, which sounds so silly.

No, I love it.

I really don't like it.

A lot of people hate it.

Yeah, I really, I continue to hate it. I hate, I hate consuming it, to tell you the truth. Um, but what I have learned over the past few years is that I actually don't mind sharing on it as much. The more, the more and the more I go, I don't mind as much when I can just be the who the heck I am. I'm a little messy, you know, not so perfect.

I love watching your stories. I think you're killing it. My gosh. I'm in your group still. And I really enjoy your content.

Thank you. So in my Facebook group, so this whole thing like has evolved multiple times, right? Over the past 2 years. So at that time too, I decided I was like, you know, weddings, pulling for destination weddings and pulling for your regular clients to continue the referral, you know, to be present, to just like keep being that, like that go-to person. I was losing my especially thing was like, I'm leaving the salon. I built most of my business based on my hair clients. I had tons of my clients were either my hair clients first or their sister, their brother, their neighbor, their, their, you know, whoever. So that's how I built a lot of my travel business was because I would sit and talk to somebody and they say, oh, what's going on? Where are you going now? Oh, I'm going here. I'm going there. Oh, I want to go there. I could do that. You know what I mean? So I knew it was the same time I was like, okay, I'm losing that. I need to start a new thing where I just like talk about it just the same way I do as Like it was kind of that same, you know, I was going for that same energy of like, hey, what's new? Like, like as we're talking about your hair, like this is where I've been. Where have you been? What's good? I learned a lot from my clients. I, it's funny. I think back about how many I learned a lot from my hair clients over the years. I learned about parenting. I learned about grief. I learned about how to manage a lot of things. And I learned about where people travel, how they spend their money.

Superhuman human interaction.

Yes.

Like that connection. Yep.

Exactly. And so, So I was like, as much as I dislike the running a Facebook page looking all like— because at the time in 2023, I do think this has shifted, but at that point there was still a whole lot of like everything was like a Canva graphic and a perfected and everything was so per— and clearly that is not me at all. And that just exhausts me to even try. I was like, okay, this Facebook grouping feels like, it feels like me just talking to people. I can do that the same way I talk to clients. So that was kind of why I joined. Uh, that's why I wanted to do that. And that was a little bit different than everything with destination weddings. Cause in destination, like over the time I've seen like that, I didn't, I didn't make my group all about destination weddings. It's—

Right.

Because that also, that is to me, that's when I get bored of like over-niching on that, you know, on that side, it's more fun to like talk about other things. You know about other places and stuff.

But that was my original like why I did was you know just to like well it definitely was like different from the messaging you were getting from Instagram, TikTok at that time. It was you know there was a lot of curation happening with like your grid having to look a certain way on IG, and I was exhausted by that. Like I remember just being like this is stupid. I had come from the fashion side. I was in an MLM, and I was in the fashion side, and I loved it actually. But it was just like so much perfection, like perfect makeup. Perfect outfit, da da da. So when I came back to travel and I started doing the Facebook group for my travel business, I remember just feeling like I don't need to show up a perfect way every day. And I need to teach this to them because I think that they will make better connections if they are themselves. And I had built a Facebook group for my fashion business and it thrived and it was in a totally different market than how The MLM wanted us to be, and they did not love it. They did not love that I was thriving this way. So it was like a really interesting time in my life when I was like again can't be myself over here. So I have to find a private space to be myself and fuck off everybody else because I'm tired of being told I can't do it a certain way when I'm on a 1099 contract. So obviously I left them in 22, and I launched the Facebook groups course. For you guys, but it was the same idea, like show up imperfectly. You don't need makeup. You can go live anytime you want, go live with your coffee mug, just really communicate with your clients how you want to be yourself. And I think that does attract a lot of people because as someone who just got on TikTok, by the way, like trying the TikTok thing, it's so much pressure. It feels like so much more pressure to show up. And I don't know, you know, the Facebook group is still my favorite place to connect with people.

Yeah.

So I'm glad that it's worked. And I think what was so interesting about your story too is you were so open with telling it to the other agents once you did take the class.

Oh yeah.

And it really helped me grow at that time. So I appreciate you so much because I still use your testimonials because they were so detailed. They're so authentic and they're still real.

Yeah.

And like they still are the, like it's still accurate, which is so nice. But like, what did it do for you to be able to build, because I remember you didn't, you were like, Nobody's going to make an appointment with me. Nobody's going to like, how, what do you mean I can book 6 weeks out? I remember having those one-to-one conversations. I'm like, well, if you start sharing in your Facebook group that this is how you work, they will fall in line. And it's just like hair. You don't let people just walk up on you and book an appointment or squeeze in between 2, 3-hour hair colorings. Like you make an appointment 6 to 8 weeks out. That can be your business for sure. Okay, y'all, let's pause for a quick break. I know you want to be the best travel advisor that you can be, and if you're tired of being a one-and-done booking engine and ready to build a business rooted in loyalty and referrals and providing the best white glove concierge care, From Close to Home is the course for you. You will develop a workflow that keeps you in control of your time and service the hell out of your reservations after the deposit is placed. You'll never miss a final payment again. You'll continue to connect with your clients between the deposit and their descent home. You will master that post-booking client care in ways you never thought imaginable. Learn how to VIP VIP your clients that allows them to feel so special without breaking the bank of your business. You will sell more insurance, you will upsell them throughout the experience, build those relationships, all while setting boundaries. There is no 24/7 here. You'll learn to manage hiccups like a pro, and you'll have the confidence to follow up with them after they return And encourage them to rebook for next year. Stop chasing new leads and start creating raving loyal fans who never want to travel without you and refer you to everyone they know. Head to my website to grab From Close to Home, and don't forget to check the show notes for an exclusive coupon code. Okay, now back to the pod.

Yeah. Oh, and it was, it was awesome because that's, I, I was real focused during that time. time for like, you know, you say 30 days, but I think I did it for like a good several months that I was like pretty consistent on there.

Yeah.

And I can't say that I am necessarily right now. Now I'm like maybe like last month I looked and I was like, it was like 8 times last month.

You don't have to be.

No. And, and it's— and the good thing is like, relax, I can still come on back in if I, you know, when I need to.

Um, you get to manage it now.

Exactly.

Built and sustainable on your own.

Right. But during that time that I was like super focused on it, I was I was actually like booking lots of calls and that's the same time that I decided I need to charge fees.

Yeah.

For everybody. So like Will was also like, you have to charge a fee for destination wedding. And then I was like, okay. And then I was like, I should just do it for this too. Like, you know, listening to you. And so, and then that's when I learned too, that when people make an appointment with you and they do have to charge a fee, they already trust you more. It's like, they already feel like it is elevated and they're going to listen to your authority. better. They're going to book with you more. Like all of those things actually—

They're going to refer you.

They're going to refer you.

Yeah. I mean, you don't have to hustle as much for those new bookings.

Exactly. And then the ones who don't, like the people who don't want to follow my process, they self-select out and that's okay too. Like there's plenty of people. And the other thing I had the, I always had the mindset with, I still have the mindset always with my Facebook group is like, this is a place where I can give away a ton of information for free. To people who may or may not ever book with me. And that's totally fine. Like, I just had that mindset of like, actually I heard this many years ago from Pat. Oh my gosh, what is his name? He was the one who taught me about podcasting years ago. And he said like, always just serve first. Like just give away as much as you can for free to, to your audience. And then people will buy from you later. And I, so I was like, okay, I'll just keep a bit like that mindset too in this Facebook group. Like I will answer any questions that are in my group. I don't, you know, I don't gatekeep in there either. Like if somebody's asking about certain places, 'cause I think other people see that and then, um, are like, oh, she knows her shit. And so—

She's helpful.

And she's helpful.

She doesn't care about the sale more than, or the gatekeeping, or, well, you have to make an appointment to talk to me about every little thing. It's like, no, no, I can give you that answer. I can point you in the right direction. Like that doesn't cost anything and it doesn't hurt us to do that. The more we can do that for our clients and each other, I think the more we will all elevate and Thrive and have a better traveling community even.

Right, right, exactly. And so, and the other thing that I found was really interesting about the Facebook groups that I didn't know would be the way it was that they, so many times the people who were the ones who booked with me, who called, who sent a DM, whatever, they never commented in the group. They were always the lurkers, like, you know, status.

Is legit. No, I have to tell people that all the time. Like you could have a literally dead quote unquote dead group where no one is talking, no one is commenting, no one is liking, and they are watching you and they're not communicating cuz they don't wanna be baited in. They might not quite trust the process yet, but as they watch and as they learn about you, they will think of you at the right moment and message you.

Mm-hmm.

And there's a couple of you guys out there that really talk about this lurker status and As someone who also has a lot of lurkers, whether it's in the travel community as agents or in my travel business, I feel like my best clients are the quieter, like they don't always like yell from the rooftops and comment on everything, you know? But what's nice is we provide a space for everyone to communicate how they want to communicate.

Right.

And that's, and we make it comfortable for them to eventually reach Yeah.

Yes, exactly.

Because showing up is half of it. Like showing up is, well, that's actually most of it.

It is.

Showing up is most of it.

And that's why I felt like, so, so at this point, the only things I do kind of feel okay about are like posting in my private group and doing stories on Instagram because on stories, like, just like today, I don't, I don't, nothing. There's no filters. There's no like fancy, I don't even use equipment. Like I just, if I have a thought in my head, I'll just like say it. on there. And people like that because again, between both of those, it's like just exactly who I am. And if you don't like this, if you don't, if you're not into this, perfect. See yourself out. Nobody cares, you know, like nobody cares. But if you do like me, like we can be friends. That's fine. You know, like, yeah, I'm good either way.

I really appreciate that perspective because I think also there's so much— we don't want to be too salesy. We don't want to say the wrong thing. We are afraid of what they think. What if we get political? What about this? It's like you get Yeah. But if, if you hold back, if you continue to not be your full self, they can feel that too.

Mm-hmm.

They can feel that censoring. They can feel that, you know, you had said, you know, in the back in the days you were a little bit more censored, you were a little bit more fluffy in your remarks. Now you're much more gritty. It's like, yeah, cuz I had to grow into feeling really comfortable being 100% myself. And it's still a journey. Like, it's not always easy to put yourself out there every single day cuz people think that they can then say whatever they want about you. To you in a way that I'm like, wait, I'm not mean to you, right? Like, I'm just direct, but like, you want to be mean to me back. Like, it's bizarre. But I think it's like the more that we are willing to share our life, our stories— like, I know you just had surgery, shared that. And how are you doing?

Very good. It was awesome.

I'm so glad because I was so nervous for you because I've had that surgery.

Oh, I know. I had I had the best— so it was a gallbladder, which, yeah, my PSA to all women over 40 right now is like, if you have a gallbladder and you have, and you're having like weird stomach problems, because again, we're moms, women over 40, I hear it all the time.

We've heard all the shit.

Oh, oh, oh, I just thought it was normal that I was throwing up every time I ate cheese for a month.

Like, you know, like maybe it's the dairy, but then you cut dairy, you're still throwing up. Over some—

yeah, exactly.

Gallbladder pain is like labor too.

The night of the pain—

Fucking insane.

So the whole month I look back and I'm like, oh, that's dumb. I was sick for a month and I didn't realize it. Um, but like, I was like, I don't even know why I just kept brushing it off, brushing it off. It wasn't— I went through 24 hours of thinking I must've had food poisoning. Again, I'm still not doing anything about it. It wasn't until the next night when I woke up with that pain. Labor, literally like labor pain and it wouldn't go away. And it wasn't like contracting and stopping and starting. And it was like for 45 minutes. And then I was straight up doubled over and I had to say to my husband, like, I need you to take me to the hospital.

And he was like, what? Well, my first gallbladder attack was 33 and I was in the tub and I ended up like falling out and it was the middle of the night. I wasn't feeling well. So I got in the tub. That's always my answer. Just, I'll just soak in the tub. I'll just like try to get this pain out of my body. And same, I thought I was dying. I, I couldn't not believe the amount of pain I was in. And girl, that was 2013. I did not get my gallbladder out until '20. After— yes. And I had seen doctors and they kept saying, it's not your gallbladder. And they would do those, what, slush tests or whatever, and it was never coming back. And we moved down here to Florida and I had a horrific attack. Okay. Like I was on the floor again. It's like, this is fucking insane. You've been having these for like a A year, like 5 years, but you've had 3 this year. So our neighbor at this time, we had moved to Florida. I'd only been living there for a couple years. We weren't like friends. We were friendly. He is a gastrointestinal doctor. Okay. Eric went next door and got him and was like, you need to talk to Marcie. Like, something is wrong with my wife. We've gone to the ER again.

Yeah.

And he's like, oh my God, she needs to have her fucking gallbladder out. It was like, The most legit straight answer, and I had it out. He helped me get into a surgeon who could get me in like, like you got in. Yeah.

Like 12 days later.

Yeah. 25 gallstones, girl. 25 fucking stones.

It—

Oh my God. And my procedure was pretty intense because of it, cuz it was unexpected how much was in there.

Yeah.

But I know yours was a lot better. Not to scare anybody, but it was, it was an easy surgery. I still have my little scars.

Yeah.

But it was just much more intense because it went on for so long. I did ignore it. You ignored it for a month. I was like, hold my beer on fire. 5 years.

That's insane.

But they say most women who have had multiple children, yes, have gallbladder issues in perimenopause and stuff. And I was— I— yes. So it's crazy when you said you were having your gallbladder out, I was like, I'm so glad you did not go on that trip.

Yeah.

To Mexico City and then get stuck in fucking Mexico City. It was with gallbladder issues.

You would— And 2 of my friends did end up getting food poisoning there.

Oh my God. Thank God you didn't go.

They were like, oh my gosh, we're so glad you didn't come. Thank goodness you didn't go.

But I'm so glad you're doing well now because I was nervous for you. I had a pretty rough recovery.

Okay.

And you, and you were up and moving.

I was like, look at her, Melissa.

But I think it's because you're so positive-minded too.

I was still kind of in a bitchy attitude back in 2018.

I think it like really hurt my chances of recovering well. So keep a Melissa attitude and not a Marcie attitude when you have to have surgery.

I tried to like, and this is, so I'm also like an Enneagram 7.

I'm sure you're shocked if you know what I'm an 8 with a 7 on the side.

Okay. Okay. Um, I think my, I think my Vincent, my younger one, I think he's an, I mean, you can't, you can't type other people, but my guess is that he's probably an 8 with a little 7.

Yeah.

He's the, yeah, he's either that or he's in the 3. I don't know. Again, just a guess. But my 7 is not like to feel, um, sad at all or pain or grouchiness or any of those things. So I'm pretty big on like, I give my, I don't know, I kind of like cut myself off on how long I'm allowed to feel bad about something. So when I was in pain with this, like, so I had the, I went in the hospital when I was laying there. I knew in 5 days I'm supposed to go to Mexico City to literally eat. And then, and my, the doctor who was in there, he was like young and Indian, but he's, I think he was born here, but his family's Indian. And he said, um, he said, you, I mean, I said, I probably can't go on this trip. Can I? 'Cause it's Friday and I have to leave like Monday or something. And he's like, Um, he's like, I mean, you can travel, you can get on an airplane. And he's like, but I just— he's like, uh, please don't, don't eat any street food. And I was like, okay, so that's a whole thing.

Okay, so that's gone because we're gonna be in Mexico eating street food every day.

Exactly. And he was like, he's like, yeah, like when I go home to India, like the street food, he's like, like, you know, don't do that at all. And I was like, okay, so canceling. Perfect. Sounds good.

Well, I mean, I'm glad though that it happened before. Like I said, I'm glad.

Beyond glad.

And you could, like, take care of yourself, get the surgery. And I know that you're gonna get ready to travel soon.

Yes, and I can't wait.

I know. Where are you going next?

Xcaret.

That's gonna be so fun. Xcaret is such a cool property.

I visited once.

Very cool.

But I've never stayed. I'm really looking forward to it.

Yeah, I've only visited, but I've sent some families, and of course they come back raving.

Families who don't have 5 kids, who don't have 3 kids, Okay.

I do send 3 kidders there, but the parents have to be totally okay being in a separate building. And I love to talk a client into just like letting their kids be in a totally different building. It's like one of my favorite things. I'm like, no, they're gonna love it. You're gonna love it. You're not gonna be so far away. You can't like face, you know, like you can see 'em on the Life360. Everything's fine. Obviously they're usually a little older. Yeah.

We did that with my kids.

Something to have those real conversations. And be like, no, you guys do want this. Mm-hmm. But here's the caveat and understanding how to sell it and understanding how to communicate and being solution-driven. And my clients are like, we are so glad we did this. It was amazing. You know? So I always like, I'll talk 'em into it. I'm like, fuck it. They don't need connecting rooms. Yeah. They're not 4 and 6 anymore. Like, let's, like, let's go. Like, you're not going to Xcaret with young, in my opinion, I think it's a great teen destination.

Yeah.

Because obviously they can, go to all the parks and do all the adventures, but, um, and stay in a separate building if they need to. But, um, okay, before I get too much more off on a tangent, I want to circle back. I'm like, we have to go back in time again, Melissa. No, just, I want to talk to you really, I just don't want to get too far away from just your journey to this moment of like realizing that you can really have it. You can have this business thrive. You're going to have all the things you want, you know, the way you want them. I think that's like really your story of over the 9 years. Like just really, I'm just so excited for you. So like, how do you feel now in comparison to when you first got into the business?

So today I just had a thought about when in 2016, um, trying to say things nicely, someone said, I was, you know, so-and-so said they would like to apply for this job and I sent them an email and they didn't reply. Within however many hours. And so obviously you're done. This is not gonna happen because if you can't reply to that email within a certain amount of hours, like you can't do this business. That's not how this works.

Yes.

That was this actual statement that I heard someone else say, not about me, but about someone else. And I was like, oh, like that's a thing? Like—

Immediate response.

Is the only way, is the only way to live in this business. Like that lie. And it's like, you know, You don't realize—

That is a lie.

It's totally a lie. But you don't, especially when you're younger, like, and less experienced in whatever the thing is in your life. I was very inexperienced at that time, you know? And so I was like, oh, that must be the way it is. You know, that is how this works. And even little things like hearing, well, no one would ever, why would anyone pay you a fee when they could do this themselves? Why would anyone have you book their Disney trip if you weren't getting up at 6 o'clock in the morning to make their dining reservations? Why would anyone, right? All these, these like lies. So they were, but all of those like shapes, all scarcity, all scarcity, fear-based fearmongering around how people respond to somebody with some boundaries.

Like if you don't, if you have boundaries, you can't succeed.

Yes, exactly.

That idea of like, this is the only way it's done. I answer all my clients within minutes. And that, I mean, that's how I did it for 8 years and it killed me. It literally killed me. I had to leave.

Right. I know.

And I was terrified for that when I came back. Like, do I have to go back to this? Do I have to do it this way? And I was like, there's no way I have to do it that way. That's crazy. I don't want to be so, you know. No.

Like, that's not—

Journey, girl, to get to that.

Yeah.

To get like, they will make an appointment.

Yeah.

They will want to talk to me.

Yes. All of those things, like those, those, like just those lies. Um, and I, and it wasn't even just like, you know, within places that I belonged, but even like I was on like a Disney, what the heck would they call them? Not a FAM, they called them something else.

Oh, the ADP.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

I was on one of them. And again, you're hearing the things from the different people. And that was all I was being inundated with because I, I didn't have like a Marcie or a, you know, like I didn't have these other I do not want to talk about myself in the third person, but nobody had a Marcie.

Like, we did not exist. There's a few of us now, and I'm like, thank God I'm not on this hill alone because it's lonely. But it's true. Like, if we— it was also when you first started hearing it, you were like, whoa, wait, what?

Yes.

No, that's not what I've been told.

Right.

Been brainwashed. Lied to for 9 years about. Yeah.

Yes, exactly. Totally. And like, so thinking about that mindset as to like where I am now, whereas like now I actually, because I'm just like attention deficit, uh, this, this week particularly, last week was just a stressful week for humanity.

A rough one.

Yeah. And it's been, it's been rough to be on the internet in 2025. Um, no matter how you feel about anything, there's just a lot of, there's just a lot of, it's painful. It's painful. Right. And so, um, this over the weekend, I could feel, like I said, even with my kids, like the rage coming through.

And then— It is eclipse season though, too.

The what?

Like we have eclipse season. We are in between 2 solar and moon eclipses. And it's true that the moon and the sun control a lot of our actual feelings. I mean, you don't have to believe in it, but the closer the moon is, like the cra— you know, like the full moon makes everyone crazy.

Right.

Like, it's— these eclipses really affect our emotions.

And—

Really? Yes. If you Google it, you'll see. Um, yeah, I'm a little bit woo-woo.

Oh yeah.

But yeah, I mean, I really believe in it. I, I believe that it affects all of our crazy. Like, I'm just like, add to it that I have ADHD, you have ADHD, your kids have it, you're—

you know.

And it's also hormones, right? Like, everybody's hormones are out of fucking control. I officially was diagnosed with menopause. Like, not peri, Like I'm full blown.

Okay.

And that happened last week too.

Okay.

And it's just been like very emotional. But on top of it, yes, 2025 has been a fucking hellscape.

Literally.

And we're trying to plan vacations. We're trying to keep it upbeat, but it's hard sometimes, right? Like we're just—

It's especially hard to talk about things that are like fun and happy and future-oriented when everybody is like falling into a void. You know what I mean? Like a dark void. It's just, it's just a challenge. And so, but this week it feels lighter to me. Maybe I was like, I have, I have prayed through this. I have worked. I'm trying to work through this. I'm trying to like be kinder to myself. And this week I was like, I am kind of like slow business-wise at this moment. And there was for a long period of time like that I would panic as soon as I felt slow.

Yeah.

There's nobody call. I don't have anything I absolutely have to be doing. Like I would always be like, I have to be busy. I have to be. And now I'm like, I can I can enjoy this a little bit. I can have 2 hours to have a leisurely conversation with you. I— it is my best friend's birthday today, and I am going to take a walk and call her, and we're gonna make some lunch plans. It's okay. I deserve to also get a break.

Yeah.

I will take the time to make dinner for my children because that's important. Now, that doesn't mean that it's always like this. There's plenty of times when my season is very, very busy, but like, I don't have that, no longer have to feel like in order to be the person who pays the bills on my business, I also have to be so busy every single minute of every single day. Like, that's not, that's not true. That's not a truth.

I love this abundance.

Yes.

Because the other thing is we know we have more confidence. The longer you're a travel advisor, the more confident you will become in who you are as a travel advisor. But as well as, in my opinion, what I've seen in just the last couple years of knowing you is just this relax, you've relaxed.

Mm-hmm.

And that's what I see today. And I think it's so cool because when you are like this, guys, when you are a little bit more relaxed and not holding on so desperately to a sale, to that commission, when you put service first, when you think serving over everything else, it really does create this open, like, flow of energy to you. I love it. That will also help when things do get slower. You're able to look at it and go, I don't need to sit at my desk hoping someone will reach out to me today. I can go take a walk. I can go do all these other things. I can look Now I have time to do things because I control my schedule. And I think that's so much more powerful in a business than being busy 24/7. Like it's not fancy or impressive to be so slammed. You have no time for yourself, no time for your family, no time for your friends. And because at the end of the day, none of those people outside of our 4 walls and the people we care about most even matter.

Right.

Like, you know, life will go on without you if you're not careful. So it's like, I don't know, it's so powerful to feel that. And I can feel that energy from you, Melissa. Like I, and I've also witnessed it just being able to watch you the last 2 years. Like it's been an incredible journey. I love it so much for you. And I'm so proud of you. And I know you're just killing it in destination weddings now. I know that Mexico is like your love child. You practically live there. And I know you're friends with Lori Gold.

Yes.

So I'm also very close to Lori and I'm obsessed with her. So if you guys don't Oh my gosh. Or anything in Mexico. Now granted, she doesn't do the West Coast, right? She's Riviera Maya, but there's so much. And I mean, hundreds of properties she's visited, tons of content, wonderful person, just genuine beautiful soul as well. So she is the Taylor Swift of Mexico, in my opinion. Like, I call her that all the time. She's like, stop. Just, she's so humble. She's like, I don't know. And I'm like, stop.

She is so humble. She is so like, it just, it's so funny. I took a walk and talk with her the other day, cuz if you didn't know, if you haven't met experts, she does these walk and talks.

And so walk and talks.

It literally, it was like, we get to 2 hours and she's like, okay, I better go do work. And like, yeah, me too. Um, but she's so, she'll always be like, and then she's like, ah, I just, I probably should just be doing more. I'm like, are you a crazy person?

We talk about this all the time. I'm like, no, like even me, like I've had to figure out how to balance being this version for the travel advisors and still being a really good travel agent. And I, we talk, she and I talk about like the more, how do you stay relevant? What kind of content do we need to be providing? And she goes way above and beyond. And now I'm learning like I can just do one big thing a year. So like this year it was Do the Damn Air.

Mm-hmm.

Next year it's Lead the Manifest.

No.

And everyone keeps asking and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing in 2027, guys. Like, I will still be here.

Yeah.

If I'm alive, I'll be here. Like, I will be here for you every day in the groups. I am never gonna change because I don't know how.

Yeah.

I'm obsessed with control. But you know, she's the same way. We talk about like the longevity and how not to burn out as like a helper in the community, as a community person, because it's just a lot. Some, you know, but there's new people coming in every day that we need to serve and teach.

Yeah.

And help and grow. It's just crazy. But I love like watching you guys also step into those roles and potentially be the next generation of helpers because the longer you do this, sometimes you get bored and you're like, that's how I got here. I was like, just bored being just a travel advisor. I'm like, I wanna teach people shit. It's like fun.

Yeah. Yeah. So like, it's fun— funny yesterday, you know, you said, uh, at my coffee shop we had, um, a, there were 7 of us who all belonged to Destination Wedding University who were all, um, over who all came to the coffee shop together. And we have like this wonderful little deal that if you have 4 people or more, you can pay $20 a person plus tax, um, to get the rent the private room for the day. And that includes food, coffee, drink, and pastries. Literally.

Like a deal, girl.

It's a deal.

For networking.

Exactly. And so we are gonna just do it like once a month. We do it usually like with BDMs and stuff, but we were like, let's just do it without a BDM sometimes. So like we The 7 of us just like hung out, like co-worked all day. And then again, like, oh my God, I love that. I'm using this. I have an idea. Oh, what do you do? So when I, I literally at one point I just got up and I was like, I grabbed the, the big screen and, 'cause I, I was like, let me just show you how I do this thing in my email. 'Cause it's like really helpful and it's easy to show. And so I showed all of them and they were like, like how I use tasks and whatever and just to make things simpler. And it was, and they were like, oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh.

Thank you. And I was like, this is fun.

I love—

Life-changing.

That's a life changer, Melissa, when you bring people together like that and ha— and provide just a space to talk about the business because we are lonely. And you were saying last week, literally how bored you were at home. And you know what? If I lived where you live, I might come like once every 3 months. Like I don't dare come all the time because I don't thrive as much around people. But, um, I think like that's amazing that you can bring even just the smallest community. And I know none of you are related in your businesses.

Yeah.

Like you just all get to hang out.

Yeah.

And get to know each other. And what's really cool about that too is if you need help, you know, you have this, these people that you can just like text really quick, like, hey, can I get some help with this? My brain is in the gutter. And having that community is so fucking awesome. It's good for our souls.

It is.

Truly.

It is.

Yeah.

Yeah. It feeds like a different part where, you know, that's able to—

And that's where you and Jen met officially, like at your coffee shop.

Yes. Physically. Yeah. Literally, like I had invited her, we met online and then, um, the one day we were getting together. That— I think I sent you the picture, um, that day because when she sat down and told me that she real— that we realized she went to Momentum. And I was— because I was there for the hurricane too, but I was over at Ava, you guys were at Majestic, and we were talking about the hurricane and whatever. And I was like, oh, you were at Marcie's thing? And she's like, yeah. And I was like, oh my gosh, let's send her a picture.

So that was so fun. I love that so much. Okay, so we're getting to the point where we have to talk about your 3 free things.

Okay.

And we've given a lot of free shit away today, but I would love to hear, like, if somebody were listening to you right now and they were just like, I need help. I want to go do something today to change my business without investment, without, you know, paying a lot for it. What would you say are your 3 free things?

You know, I should have wrote these down because I listened to a couple of your podcasts and I was like, oh good, I need to get my 3, 3 things and then my controversial advice.

I got it. Well, I have your form. I can tell you what you put and then you can decide if you want to add to it. But you, your first one was get your calendar under control. That was going to be my first one was just so often one of them. So I feel like this is not just your advice. This is almost every single person's advice who comes on here.

Yeah. Yeah.

That means you really need to do it, guys. Like if you have not gotten your calendar under control.

100%. Just use a scheduler always. Like somehow, whatever it is, your method.

You can like Google Workspace has a new calendar. Um, and then you can do Google Meet for free. Then you've got Calendly that's out there. There's a free version. I recommend paying for it just because you get so much more with the paid version. Oh my gosh.

The new paid version is so amazing.

Oh, it's off the chain. And the new AI is— The new AI takes notes. I don't have to do anything.

Love it. I love that. By the way—

That's my problem with texting. Like it texts me when I have an appointment. It texts you when you have an appointment. And yes, a lot of other services also do this. I think, um, somebody had recommended a different version of the calendar in Propose to Close the other day. Theresa Mahabharat. She's amazing. And I cannot, I'm blanking on it, but there are so many calendar options. Bottom line is get a calendar. Yes, absolutely.

Yes. So like Calendly, Acuity, you have to pay for. That's another good one. But, um, there's even—

It's a good investment though. It's a great write-off. Let's be real. It's a legit write-off for your business. So definitely get it.

Okay. So other free, other, what are my other free things? I'm like, oh, I got to pause. Think for a second. Go ahead. You tell me what else did I say?

You said politely say no to shit you don't want to sell. Oh yeah. That's free. That's free to do. I love this advice because obviously from the beginning we're told to hustle, do everything, sell everything. We, um, I don't know if you were able to get on. I did a call about aligned clients for the Proposed to Close group the other day, and we now put all those calls into the resources. I don't know why I didn't start doing that.

Yeah, yeah, I saw that today though. I saw it in there.

But it's, it's a really great call because we do talk about the aligned client, which is free to narrow down your aligned client because I have a free questionnaire online for that, but also niche Niching and really understanding your aligned client will go hand in hand with you narrowing what you really wanna sell and how you wanna sell it to people. And of course there was a lot of conversation around being a generalist and why that's good and why that can be really bad, but really it's a time saver and a money maximizer to have an aligned client and to niche and to say no to shit you don't wanna do.

You don't wanna do. Yeah. If you feel like it, and I go back and forth too with the niching, like even sometimes I think I get bored. Because I am doing the same thing over and over. And I've been thinking much about, like, like I always say, like, this is what I do right now. Like, that doesn't mean anything forever, you know?

Right. Because you're Vacations by Melissa.

Exactly. Exactly.

So you could be whatever you wanna be a year from now. Yeah. 2 years from now. Yeah.

And right. And actually I'm doing my first hosted group in November. So what are you hosting?

Where are you going?

We are, it's in Mexico, but it is my friend Casey and I. I decided to do this just women. It's our women's retreat.

I did know about this. Good for you.

Yes. So we have— there's 15 women total. What?

Yeah. Are you gonna do the necklaces? No, that's right.

We talked about this. No, I didn't get everybody necklaces.

Well, next year. It's a really good gift.

Yeah.

Because I was like, what would you get that they don't want to throw away?

Right, right, right, right. Yes.

We—

she and I have been back and forth about that. But we are— we do have some pretty nice gifts. I won't tell them because I'm—

I'm excited for them.

Yeah.

I can't wait to follow the journey.

But everything about it is, is curated And cool. And we're working with like a couple of different DMCs, like Living Dreams. We have some other fun surprises I won't say on here, but like some really cool people that we are working with to create— like, it is not a trip that anybody would just like go to Mexico and like they would do it themselves, you know what I mean?

No, that is what Lead the Manifest is all about. It's like, I do find this on the internet, let's do it. Like, let's create things that are not Googleable, Googleable, and you will create a different niche for yourself, a different pivot in your business that is really profitable.

And that's why, well, I am very much considering that program for that very reason, because of not like staying— I wanna stay niche, but also sometimes I can get bored and I might be interested in something else. So I feel like I like the idea of coming up with another method, like, but that doesn't— but that's something that's outside of my niche that could be outside in my niche, but I could enjoy. I am not going to just say yes to Royal Caribbean cruises. I don't want to do that shit. Like, so, you know what I mean? Like that.

I do know what you mean.

I don't, it's not for me. Plenty of, I got, I got people who love them. They can do them in their sleep. It's fine. You know what I mean? Awesome. But like, if it's shit I don't want to do, just, I don't want to do it. Like if it lights me up and feels exciting, I think it's okay to branch out of your niche.

Right. I love that perspective because it's not like I'm saying, no, you It's, do you want to do more of this? So for example, I'm taking Jude to Japan in March, but I have zero desire to learn Japan. So I hired Tori Caldwell, who's a Japanese, um, specialist. She's been going since 2016. She onboarded into Japan through Disney. So she's going to be on the podcast after we get back.

Okay.

But I don't want to learn how to do that. And even I'm finding it difficult even right now. Like even when we're talking, she's doing all the work. But like, I'm like, I'm really glad you're doing all this work. Cuz like, I don't want to do this. Um, and maybe I'll change my mind when I'm there. I don't think I will.

Right.

But it's fine. It's okay that I don't wanna do that. It's okay. You don't wanna do Royal Caribbean. And the more you get in that mindset, it's okay to say. And so a lot of times I think they just don't know what to say.

Right.

They're like, oh, but I'm a travel advisor. I should do everything. It's like, but you can say, actually, my specialty is Mexico. And while Royal Caribbean cruises to Mexico, I'm a land specialist. I specialize in all-inclusives for adults. Adults only, 4-star and up. That can be what you say, or you can just say, I actually don't sell cruises because it's not my specialty. However, I am happy to find you a cruise specialist.

That's right.

It's— the world is large. There's specialists for everything. And that's why I also don't think we should be competitive in when people are like, oh, they have a travel agent. I can't talk to them. You can absolutely talk to somebody if you're specialized and it makes it a lot easier to move people along, but also match them up with the right travel advisor and have that abundance of like, I don't have to do everything. I don't have to serve someone constantly to provide the best service. And they'll come back to me because I was honest because they do now know what I do instead.

Mm-hmm.

That. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. All right. What was my other thing I said?

Charge a fee.

Yeah, definitely charge a fee because believe it or not, like while it will weed some people out. They're people you probably don't necessarily want, but also like the people who pay you a fee, man, they are, because honestly, like, to be fair, there's, I've struggled back and forth at times, especially when I've had somebody who's, um, like I've worked with them in the past. Sometimes it's harder, you know, it feels harder to make that change, to explain that you've changed that and whatever. But like when people pay you a fee, they just, they just believe you better. They treat you better. They respect you better. I mean, maybe not always, but like, I have really found some of the people who are, um, the best to work with are the ones who like put an investment towards their vacation with me.

I would agree with that. It's not always 100% treating me better, but I do think overall people who have that partnership mentality, they've paid your fee, you're in it. It's more fun to work together because you're like, oh, they really respect me. They're excited to work with me. Chosen me and that just the whole relationship just has a better foundation.

Yeah, definitely.

I love that.

I had other things the other day. I'm like, when I was taking a walk and I was like, oh, I have this other piece.

I know you'll be like a half an hour out of this and be like, shit, that I wanted to say that, you know? Exactly. Yeah. But we could always do a part 2 because obviously we have lots to talk about and we have been here for a while. But I have one last question and you've already kind of said a few unpopular things, which I love so much about you because we keep it real and I was just I was just saying, you know, you were so vulnerable with your following through the, you know, like I have seen you just grow through that and be more open. And I think just having that permission to like 100% be yourself has really, that's what people is attracted to. That attractor factor is so important in our business. And I think that's why people trust you because you're like, I do have gallbladder surgery coming up and I'm probably not gonna be as responsive. Or, you know, I'm just not a big fan of like saying you're in a meeting, you know, it's like, no, we're not in a fucking meeting. We're in surgery. So.

Yeah, actually that was gonna be my other free Okay, good. Change your email signature and/or put yourself an always, always going autoresponder. This has been so helpful to me on my email. So totally free advice. Figure out, talk like a human, like you would to a person. Make yourself a little autoresponder email that says like, hey, what mine says, something like, hey, got your message. Thanks so much. I will respond to— this is non-emergency. I will respond to you within 2 business days or something Um, some, and if I'm actually out or busy, I'll say, I actually just had surgery. It might take me a little longer to get back to my emails, whatever. Just something, something in there that says like, I'm a human. I'm, I'm acknowledging that I got your email. Don't expect a response right this minute. And then add some links right below. So I always got like, if you're interested in my Facebook group, here it is. If you're interested, if you wanna book a call, here you go. If you wanna like, Whatever, anything. Give them something helpful to keep them busy. Because a lot of times, or like if you have a change and cancel form like I do, like sometimes they just need that self-serve. Like, I think about it as a consumer. I think about it as a consumer. What, what do I appreciate from someone?

Like, how easy is this for me to do that I don't even have to talk to this chick? Like, I just want to get it done.

Yes, because clarity is kindness. And like, so if I email somebody else and I got the Now I know they received my email. They told me how long it's gonna take. And if there was something self-service that I was able to handle, perfect. And then, you know, and then, then you don't have to feel like anxious every time you get an email in the middle of the night or whatever.

You know what I mean?

Like, no, they know. And if it's not an emergency, I mean, and of course, whatever are your systems, like I do have some, I have an emergency phone number, like specifically, and it's not listed there. I have it. I send it to people when they're traveling.

Right.

So I say it on there, like check your final docs if you need for the, you know, emergency number.

Right.

So that's my other one. I, that really, and people like it. And also like, just be yourself in it. Like mine is a little weird. Sometimes it says like, hey, did you order tacos? And I'm like, what? And then they open it and then they're like, oh, you just had gallbladder surgery. Like, I don't know. We're like, oh, I think my one that week, I said like the day that cheese sent me to the ER, that was the, that was the actual, instead of saying like out of office, I was like, I'm just being myself.

So I know, but that pays off because people are like, oh, she's always gonna tell me. Like during August I had an automator that was, we are adjusting to a new school year. Yes. And it was gonna take me, um, some time to get back to you, sometimes up to 4 days.

Yeah.

Because I was literally in a full new schedule, 2 car lines, 6 hours. The first 3 days I was in the car 6 hours because the car lines were so jacked up here. And you'll laugh at this. I am in a group chat with Lori Gold and she was like, I thought car lines were fake. I thought they were a Hollywood thing, like a movie thing. And then you're like literally giving us the play-by-play of the crazy-ass lady that was like, jump the curb on the left side to cut all of us off. I'm like, no, this shit is real. These people are insane. And it's like at the high school when you know they've been doing car lines for 16 fucking years and they're like jumping the curb. I was so annoyed. And she's like, I'm obsessed with this and I need a car line update every day. And now I'm doing them on TikTok. Like, it's become like this stupid thing. People like always watch the TikToks and I'm like, I know, this is why TikTok's weird.

Yeah.

But it's been so funny because I've been doing that conversation about car lines since the kids were 5.

I mean, yes.

Now I'm like 1 year away from no car lines and somebody fucking told me this morning I was gonna miss it. I'm like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not gonna miss 6 hours in the car. Like, I'm not gonna miss that. I might miss some of the conversations. Yes. And the laughter, but like, I will figure that out. I will survive. And I won't tell moms they're gonna miss shit cuz I'm like, no, that's—

No, you can drive your kids other places to have contact.

I will never miss leaving an hour before, sitting an hour in line and an hour back from my school. I won't miss it. And some days I do it twice. So I'm just, I'm not here for the missing, but I did have an autoresponder on because I was like, shit, my day has been cut down to 4 hours. I have no idea when I'm gonna get your email.

Yeah, totally.

And I really do try not to work too much in car line because I don't remember what I've done.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I wanna make sure I'm giving you the service you deserve and the focus. I can't do that if I'm sitting in car line and like annoyed with the lady that's jumping the curb. Like it's just yesterday the guy was on his cell phone in front of me on a speaker, like through his CarPlay. All my windows were up, all his windows were up, and I could hear the entire conversation. It was the loudest thing I've ever heard. I was like, how is he not deaf in his car? But also, why do I need to hear about this guy's lawyer situation? Like, it was insane. I was like, this is why people are crazy. Like, we're all just like a little loony. Like, I wanted to go tap on the window and be like, okay, I hope that's not confidential because the lady in front of you can hear, the lady behind you, which is me, can hear, and the lady next to you can hear that. Like, I didn't do that, but I was just like, holy shit.

Yeah.

It's so—

Otto was Yes.

With real life stuff. I love, I love that freebie.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Before we go, what is your unpopular travel advisor opinion? This was not on the form for you. Oh no, that's okay.

I got one. Okay.

Yay. Yeah.

And I will probably, there's probably a bunch of people who are gonna say I'm a—

I gotta bite my teeth. I can't wait.

And I'm gonna be very specific in my own niche and I'm going to say, if you have not invested your time Probably money and energy into how to do a destination wedding. Please do not fucking take one on your own. So like that actually pisses me off the most because that's like it's it's large amounts of people too. It's not even just that it's the wedding couple, but then it's like all of their guests and like there is so much great training. You don't have to do Destination Wedding University. You don't even have to pay. There's like there's so many places. There's the DWHSA. There's the yeah, but DWHSA there's It's very affordable too. It's very affordable. And there's like great trainings.

I'm in that group.

There's tons of— there is so much available training to you. And there are people in every one of those groups that are willing to mentor you to learn to do it properly. Just don't, don't be like, I've been booking Disney for a month. I'm going to just take your, you know, because the problem is, and I, and I say this because I did that once. And I am like embarrassed by the things that I probably did wrong. And then you give— giving so many more people like a bad, like bad energy about a TA. And like, all you need is, is better training. Like get trained, get some education. And if you can't get yourself some education, ask for a mentor. They exist. You do one wedding with somebody who helps you through it. Like you'll know what you're doing.

So true.

So much better. That's all. Like, or if you really don't want it, go refer it out and like, you know, make a deal with somebody, but don't—

Make a deal for the commission. You can make a deal for the referral fee.

I do that with agents who are like not interested at all. And I give them a, you know, I give them a, a, a big old check to thank them for that, you know? So you can make a deal. So controversially, do not take a fucking destination wedding.

Just don't fucking do it.

Don't fucking do it if you are, you have no clue.

I agree with this so much. I get so much anxiety. When I see this posts about like, oh, I have a destination wedding and they wanna go here, here, here, here, here, here, here. And there's like, I can't find any AIs in those places. Are there there? And I'm like, that's for a fucking reason.

Yes.

Please pause. Please push the pause. Well, this is my cousin. I was like, well, you're about to ruin Thanksgiving. So like, let's take a break.

Exactly.

And I always recommend the playbook, which is very, yeah, it is a little more expensive. Yes, of course. That's a reasonable way to say it, but it is obviously robust. It's worth the investment if you are going to do more than one destination wedding.

Exactly.

For itself. But there are other options out there and it's important to train properly in any part of our business.

Yes.

But when you are handling somebody's big day, it's so much more intense. It's bigger sometimes than buying a house for that.

Right.

These weddings are the most important part of the day or most important part of their life. And I agree with you, like those early days of destination weddings that we all did, I'm like, holy shit. And I did have a mentor, gratefully.

Yeah.

And she was fantastic, but it didn't change that it was very, it Yeah. It always has been, but it doesn't have to be now. There are plenty of opportunities now to learn how to do it right. Right.

And that's, so that's actually what led me ending up to Destination Wedding University and DWHSA and all the other things too, was like, was once I, I was like, okay, I actually want to do this well. I had one or two, what, that was tougher. And I did have a little bit of training, but I needed more. And I realized you just can't go into a random Facebook group and be like, group and ask 3 posts and get all the information you need. So that's the biggest thing is like, that's why I say, even if it's just investing your time, like you might not have to spend tons of money. Like there might be some good training. There's plenty of trainings that are barely a cost, but they might take your time. Don't expect to go into one of these Facebook groups and be like, oh, I asked 3 questions. Now I know everything there is to do about like planning a room block and whatever.

It's like, well, and it does trigger people too. You are going to get some people who are just going to attack your throat. Like when you ask these questions, like, and I'm always like a little bit nicer. I'm always like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, let's breathe. If you're gonna do this, this is how you need to do it instead of attacking them. I do wish people would give more information because it's too late. They've already taken it on. We need to make sure they're taken care of and that the client comes first, even if it's not our client.

Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

That's how I feel. I'm like, let's give them the tools.

Yes.

To make this the best wedding that they can make it.

Right.

We've all been first once too, like first wedding once so that we don't, I don't get to 239 weddings without doing my first one.

Absolutely. Absolutely. But like, there's a lot of information, so go take some time. It'll, it'll pay off later. Take some time.

It will. Everything pays off a year from now.

You know, everything pays off.

Like, even if you learn hard lessons, they are the lessons you need to learn to grow and be the best agent you can be. So I'm so pumped for you. Thank you so much for being here with me today, Melissa. It has been so enlightening. I love hearing all of our stories and being able to connect our communities. And although we've never met in person, I always feel like I know you really well. So I hope to meet you officially one day.

But me too.

I mean, you guys, if you need Mel, she's going to give us all her links and, um, she's obviously Very helpful, but don't inundate her.

If you, if you are hearing this and you're like, oh, I am local to like Bucks County, South Jersey, I'll make sure I put in here. I have a, actually have a little Facebook group there for getting together at our coffee shop. And that can be, you can be brand new TA, been doing it forever. We have people all different, like, and all kind of get together and we usually like invite different BDMs for the most part. So, you know, come join.

So if you're in Bucks County, you're in Pennsylvania or South Jersey, like 2 different worlds. Yeah. We'll drop that link. And thank you so much again for being here. I appreciate you so much and I just so enjoyed this pod. It's been awesome. So thank you.

You are welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I had fun.

That's a wrap on today's episode, friend. Thanks for hanging out with me again on the No BS Travel Advisor Podcast. I hope you're leaving this episode feeling fired up, inspired, and ready to take back control of your business. And let's be honest, your fucking life. If today's episode hit home, do me a favor and share it with your fellow travel advisors who need to hear this. And don't forget to leave a review. Your support means the world and helps me reach more badass advisors like you. And hey, if you've got a story to share or some no BS advice of your own, you've taken a course or two of mine, maybe you've been a coaching client, I want to hear from you. Head to my website. To apply to be a guest, I'd love to feature you on an upcoming episode. Until then, you fucking got this. Keep being bold, keep being unapologetic, and keep building the business you fucking deserve. This is Marcy Minsterman signing off with zero fluff and a whole lot of heart.