Redrop: Renee - Confidence doesn't come first, clarity does!

This is the No BS Travel Advisor Podcast. I'm Marcie Minsterman, and this show is for travel advisors who want to run profitable businesses, charge what they're worth, and stop following outdated bullshit advice just because someone in the industry told them that that is the way it has always been done. Each episode brings real talk, practical strategies, and real stories from fellow travel advisors, because sometimes the best way to learn is hearing how someone else figured their shit out. So let's get Hey everyone. Welcome back to the No BS Travel Advisor Podcast. I'm really excited today because Renee is here and she was one of my Momentum Retreat guests last September 2024. And we survived a hurricane together in both Mexico and we are both from Florida, so we had to come straight home and deal with it here as well. Uh, she brought her mom on that trip, so it was a lot of chaos. Um, and I'm so happy to have you here today.

Thank you.

I'm happy. We just had lunch and it was just really great to be able to hang out with you. And so I'm just, I wanna just get started with the basics. Like, how did you get started as a TA? And do you have anything, do you have any like hurricane hate stories other than I've done too many since we moved back here? When did you move back to Florida?

In 2022. So we got back in May of 2022 and in September of 2022 we had Ian.

Yep.

And we had done some others when we lived in South Carolina. And so we, I was like, oh, we don't need to leave. We'll be fine. And I—

It was rough down there in Sarasota.

It was like 18 hours of it sounded like a freight train. And I'm sitting in the laundry room with my kids because I'm like, you know, central location. Here's your bicycle helmets. Oh my God. You know, we have no power, listening to the battery radio and I'm like, What did we do? Right? What, what did we do? And, uh, when I fell asleep finally that night, it was still freight training. And when I woke up the next morning, I woke up because it was so quiet. You know, when there's no power, the wind had stopped howling and I hit my husband. I was like, it's quiet.

It's never a good feeling for it to be quiet.

No. So I'm like jumping out of bed and we're like trying to pop off the shutters so we can like Get a glimpse of outside.

Yeah, because I don't think people realize how dark it is also in your house when you have those hurricane shutters on.

You're locked into like a bunker. You have no idea what happened. Like, you hear stuff hitting your house, but you're not sure if it's like a tree branch or a car. You have no idea.

Right.

So to step out there and then see, you know, things are just ripped off, the lanai cage things are gone, there's everything ended up in your pool for some reason. You back up to a water And it's right up to your pool almost.

Yeah. That's what Milton did to us. We had 3 feet of water in places we didn't even know water could sustain, like hold, you know? So it was just so crazy.

It's so hard.

It's just really, I don't think people realize how challenging it can really be. So I think it, it's just one of those things that people are like, well then why do you stay in Florida? But it's like, well, the pros outweigh the cons.

It does. And when it doesn't happen, you kind of, it's like, it's like childbirth. You kind of forget like, oh, it's okay. And then as, as that happens again, like when we were at Momentum and I was like, okay, I'm, I'm gonna leave. Right? I had my mom. Right.

You did leave the day before the hurricane hit.

Her first hurricane experience doesn't need to be in a resort in Mexico, right on the beach. Like I can't, I can't do that to her.

So, well, plus, I mean, it was headed towards Florida.

It was. So then you better watch out.

There were a couple of us that were like, should we stay? Should we go? And of course I really felt like I had to stay. It was my event.

Right.

And I know you left and Heather left and several other people did go ahead and leave. And I think it's just everybody has to make the decision that's best for them in that moment. And I think that was just like a huge learning experience for so many of the advisors because they had never been through a hurricane. And destination, and they had never really dealt with moving their flight or another client's flight or anything. Because that was what was kind of surprising to me is like the line at my door to ask me what they should do.

And I'm like, wait a minute.

It was, you know, and it was easy for me to advise them because I've been in several.

Yeah.

And then even prior to moving to Florida, I'd been in several tropical storms and hurricanes traveling in the Caribbean and Mexico. Over the years. So it's just, of course it had to happen while all of us were in Mexico. And luckily for Mexico, it wasn't that bad, but it was—

It really wasn't.

So bad here. It was, I think one of the, I mean, I think Helene really did a number on, well, it did a number on places that had never been hit before. Anna Maria, Clearwater, St. Petersburg. I mean, just places that normally don't get that kind of wreckage.

Yeah, and it was the water. It was really— it pushed so much water in, right?

Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy. And then to get hit like 9 days later, um, it was just a crazy year. And it's been so— I don't even want to say it out loud—

it's been a little quiet this year, and I'm like, knock on that wood, knock on that wood.

Don't say anything. But it is true. It's just so interesting how different it can be each year, which is also why we hang out. We just are like, well, it might Yeah. It's, it's definitely one of those things that—

It can completely wreck your fall or it can be a normal, like everything happens normally fall. And last year was awful. And we evaced for Milton because we were, it was 9 o'clock at night and I was sitting here—

I think we were texting and I was like, are you leaving? Are you staying?

And I was like, I was on the floor. I was crying. And my husband looked at me and he's like, we have a hotel in Miami. He's like, Let's go.

Let's go.

Because you are not in a place to stay here.

Yeah. We stayed and we stayed for Ian too. Ian was not nearly as bad for us up here where I am. And, but Milton rocked my world. I was like, never fucking again. I told my husband, I was like, I don't know what I was thinking staying for this. And he said, we really did not know it was going to be this bad, Marcie. I'm like, well, we did know. We did know.

Right.

They just told us, you know, it was just this cra— you know, and it wasn't even—

Well, and that's why people get into trouble, right? Like, you just— no one thinks that it's going to be like that, and then you get stuck, and then, you know, that's what happens. And if you're on vacation, you don't know what you don't know if you've never been through that before. Like, if you're in Mexico, you're from the Midwest, and you've never done a hurricane, it's not the same as a tornado. I grew up in the Midwest. You grew up in the Midwest.

Yes.

Tornadoes Significantly different than a hurricane.

Girl, I have laid in a ditch at a campground during a tornado and had to go back to the campground and half of it was gone. It was one of the most insane experiences. So like, I've been in the weirdest weather. I was in a tsunami in Hawaii in 2013. I have been in weird sandstorms in the desert. Like, I've done so many weird things. I'm like, just don't travel with me because there's probably gonna be a weird weather event.

Then maybe you and I together, our combination isn't good because that's what, when I move to new places, that's usually what happens.

Yes.

We have Alaska. There was a, when we moved there, there was a volcano that was erupting and they, and this is what happens with the military and your husband's a pilot and they take the jets and they leave, you know? So if there's a hurricane coming or when we were in Oklahoma City, they, for her, when they knew there were gonna be bad weather days, they took the jets and they left.

My goodness.

So we did the big F5 that hit there. My husband was with the jet in Arizona. Oh my gosh.

You were like by yourself in a—

With 2 small kids. I think I was pregnant with my third. Like I had just found out.

Oh my gosh, Renee.

So that happened. And then we, when we moved to Germany, it was like record-breaking heat. It had never crossed like over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That, in that summer it did. And so we moved there and there's no AC and it's 100 degrees and everything's burned up. And I was like, I think this must be me because every time we do this, this happens.

So it doesn't really matter if you live in Florida or Alaska or South Carolina.

I feel like I've had it no matter where we go. And, you know, so I think that also probably leads me to be like, okay, well, it could be worse.

Right.

But you've also lived in Europe, right? Yes.

Yes. Because your husband's in the military, or he was.

He was.

So tell us a little bit about that. Like how has the last few years been as you've transitioned? Because I know he retired and now he's an airline pilot. So he's still very busy, gone a lot, obviously. So what is your life like and how did you get into travel?

So obviously we've moved around a lot. So you learn, have to relearn how to do life multiple times, just because every time you move, you got to get the kids new doctors. You got to find out how you're going to get around town. Where's your new shopping spot at? Like all of those things. So I've been pretty used to doing that, but moving to Europe was a huge life-changing because you really have to learn how to do everything that you normally do here in America, but a completely different way. So you've been doing something for 35 years, you know how to drive, but you go over there and you had to pass the driving test and you have to know how to drive in Europe. And I white-knuckled the drive those first few times on the Autobahn, because I was like, oh my God, this is so terrifying.

I was on the Autobahn in June and I did, I, I don't know why I wasn't prepared, but I was not mentally prepared for it.

I mean, because they just—

As a passenger. Passengers in Audis just— I didn't know there was a place that didn't have a speed limit on the—

Right? So it's terrifying because here I am, I shipped my minivan over, so—

Love this so much.

I'm driving down the Autobahn in my minivan and then there's, you know, Audis shooting past me going 160 kilometers an hour and I'm like, oh my God. You know, but from learning how, like, Germany does trash like nobody's business. They weigh your trash. You have to throw everything away in the, like, the 5 different trash cans.

Right.

And if you do it wrong, they just throw it back in your driveway for you because you did it wrong.

The Germans are interesting, girl. I am not surprised by this information.

No. So me on the phone with my sponsor being like, okay, Kate, I'm so sorry, but I, which trash do I throw this into? I don't know what trash to throw it into. Oh my gosh. Things like, I want to make a phone call. I know I need— I'm calling from Germany and I need to call the Netherlands. How do I dial the number?

Right. So just your most basic, like, life skills had to be retaught. That's insane. Yeah.

I want to make spaghetti for dinner. I have to go to the grocery store and I have to find the things I need to make spaghetti. And, you know, learning a language over again.

Well, and with a different language, the one thing I realized I did not— I was unexpectedly not prepared for the vast differential between every other European language and German.

Yes.

So I'm thinking, well, they say that most people speak English, a little bit of English, but where we were, we were in the countryside about an hour and a half outside of Munich. And, mm, the pharmacist did not speak English. I had to get medicine. And the thing is, my last name is Muensterman, which is 1,000% German. So everywhere we went, they would immediately start talking to us in German. They thought we looked German, we had a German last name, we must be German. Um, so they were always very confused because also Americans don't hang out in this area very much. Like we learned that very rapidly. So the only place I went the whole time where I could read the menu was a Spanish tapas restaurant. He was German-Spanish and his dad was Spanish. His mom is German.

Yeah.

And so his entire menu was in German on one side and Spanish on the other. And I was like, I know what this says. I can. I can do this, but he spoke no English. So it was like, we got through it, but it was definitely an unexpected language barrier experience I had not had before.

Right. And that's hard.

Yeah, it was. It's even these great days, I can't imagine living there.

So it was a huge learning curve and I am so thankful that I had it because I feel like honestly, I, I've been back. I can dump myself back into anywhere over there and I pick it right back up where I left off. So it It doesn't feel— nothing about it feels hard. My brain's already done—

And you're over it.

No, my brain's already done the hard, right?

Right.

Moving back to the US was hard because you spent 4 years getting acclimatized to that, right? You know that that's now your norm. We didn't come back that whole time because COVID happened in the middle and it was just extremely difficult to bring all 5 of us back during that time. So it just, We just didn't because we knew our time was still up in 2022 and we were just going to try and make the most of what we could while we were there. I mean, it turned out great. Summer of '21, well, lots of Americans weren't allowed to come back over. We had places to ourselves like that. We went to Rome and walked straight into the Vatican, had the Sistine Chapel almost to ourselves.

Wow!

The same thing happened in Paris, things like that, because unless you were on some sort of visa or whatever, a status of forces agreement like we were to be there. And, you know, there was no tourists. It was Europeans and a few rogue Americans.

I love that.

Wanting to break it out.

Wow. What cool experiences that you got to have without all of the tourists, which are there so much now.

Like, yeah, they're so overwhelmed. Yeah. So when I see those lines now and I'm just like, we had such a, even though the time was terrible and I don't wish to go back to that for any reason whatsoever. My kids, my fam, we got such a great experience being able to be in there almost alone. There were maybe 20 people in that Sistine Chapel when we were in there.

That is crazy.

You could spin around, you could look, like, it was just—

You could, like, spend time in the Sistine Chapel.

Yes. And—

That's amazing.

You know, you weren't, you know, shoulder to shoulder, because our tour guide explained, she's like, the way this normally is, She's like, and the line wraps around the building on the outside. And, you know, the same thing when we went to the Coliseum. It is.

See, I've been twice in the last couple of years and I never need to go back because if that's how it's going to be forever, it's so intense in there. It is scary. And they are so strict now, like too, you can only stay for like 10 or 15 minutes maximum. And they just like, it doesn't feel like an experience. It just feels like you have to Get in there, look up, and, you know, get what you can out of it because they're also, you're not really supposed to be talking and stuff. It's just, it's just the craziest thing. But that's such a cool thing that you got to experience despite everything going on.

I mean, despite everything going on. I mean, I still like, you know, my children had to get a COVID test to go back to Germany. So we're finding a random one in the middle of a square, a piazza in Rome to have them swabbed.

Mm-hmm.

So that we can go home and that entire living that experience and having to cross borders so often. And just, I know that I did that. I lived through that. If I can do that level of hard, you know, every 72 hours, all 5 of us had to get swabbed just to, because we had to cross the border to go to school, to go to some of our resources. Like our commissary was in the Netherlands and we lived in Germany and we lived right on the border. And, you know, when Europe decides to enact borders again, even though they haven't really had borders in Right. 25 years, things change and you have to, you have to adapt. It's really, it's really interesting. And I'm so glad I had the experience because it makes this part of doing all of this, even when there's hiccups and things go wrong, I know that there's a solution. There's a way to get forward.

There's always a fixable thing. Yes, absolutely.

But to be able to be like, okay, this really isn't this bad, right?

Right.

This, this is, this has a solution. Yeah, we moved back. Then while I was over there, again, I couldn't really work outside of working in the schools, so I substitute taught, coached cheer.

Okay.

Just did all kinds of things.

That's fun.

And then, but I planned trips for us all the time. Like we were constantly going and that would be something most people would say, they're like, do you guys ever stay home? And we're like, No. We have a gift. We have, we have a limited time over here. We have a 3-day weekend. We're going to just go do a quickie Milan weekend. And we did.

Very cool. A quickie Milan weekend. That sounds like a good idea. Right?

Where can I say that? No, that's not my life anymore.

You can never say it again.

Right? But like Ryanair, everyone put their stuff in their own little backpack. You had enough stuff for the weekend. You didn't really need that much. And that's what we did.

Excellent.

I think it was maybe to 23, I think 23 countries by the time we left.

Fabulous. So obviously it made sense when you got home to take up travel as an actual job.

Yeah. When, while I was doing that, I would, we would do some things and our friends would be like, hey, do you have that written down? Do you have your itinerary? Where did you go? And I'm like, yeah, here. 'Cause I, I'm a planner and I'm a researcher and I'm organized. So if even if it was just in a Word document, everything we did.

Yeah.

Or a Google Sheet or whatever. And I would just, yeah, here. And then people would go do the same trip that we did and they would book the same place that we booked and all of that. So I was like, hmm. Hmm.

It gives you ideas. Yeah.

Like, maybe do this. And I got back and I was like, God, I miss it. And I just, I, the research part of it, the like finding out what you can do, like that kind of digging in part of it, even, even if it's not for me, I like doing it for other Like other people, cuz if they asked questions, I always try to help. And my husband's like, we talked about, you know, what I wanted to do and—

And you probably needed flexibility because you have 3 kids.

I have 3 kids and he's gone a lot, like I said. So he retired when we moved back. Um, he got hired right away at the airlines and we had about a month between when we got back and when he started. He left to go start training. We didn't even have our furniture yet. So we were, I mean, we were still sleeping on a blowup mattress. We did ship, we did, um, I ordered a couch, so it was here when we got here. So some of the kids were sleeping on a couch, I was blow-up mattress. Um, a couple of the, we were able to ship a little bit of urgent stuff. So like, you know, I had like a couple pans and a pot and stuff at the kitchen, but we had like nothing until almost August.

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And they're like starting school and you're, you're just, he's gone for half the month. It's like, what are you supposed to do? I mean, it was funny because when I was reading your forum, you said that you felt like you were like a gold medalist. And doing it all. And I think that's such a great, like, actual description for most of the women I know. And even just doing the podcast, like, everybody is multitasking.

Yes.

In addition to being a travel advisor. And I think that that's part of the reason why people really love this job. Like, it's definitely flexible, but I do think it also, there's so many skill sets that you can bring into being a travel advisor when you're organized and you know what your calendar is doing and All of this stuff, because I really feel like people don't realize how many moving parts, even to the most basic trip that there are.

Yes.

I mean, I just think moms have the best skillset to come into something like this. So I think it's so cool that you're like, well, now it's time to do this. So in your research, did you find the right place for you? And are you happy with where you are?

So I had interviewed to be, uh, like an independent con— uh, contractor with the same franchise that I went with.

Mm-hmm.

But with them. And, and they were reasonable about like how the splits and things would work based on how my knowledge and stuff grew.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, we, my husband and I, you know, we would take walks in the evenings after dinner and just talk some of this stuff out. And he looked at me and he's like, But is it your own? And I know how important that is to you. And I was like, no, it's not. At the end of the day, all of it doesn't belong to me and it's not mine.

Right.

Because I'm still under somebody else. He's like, do you want it to be yours? And I said, well, if I'm going to do it, yeah. And he's like, then let's do it that way.

Awesome.

So that's, that's what we did. We bought into a franchise that allowed me to Run it, you know, my, everything's mine, my way. I have a lot of tools and resources at my disposal, but I also have a lot of flexibility because I, it's my business and I can run it and do the things that I see fit for me. And if I don't have the time or the wherewithal to handle something at that time, I don't have to.

Right.

It's, there's nothing for me to hit quota-wise. There's nothing I have to. Have to do.

Right.

Because no one wants to be, right? Uh, but at the end of the day, it still all belongs, you know, to me. And that was, that was important. And he understood that and was super, super, super supportive, like the whole time. Right. And he knows because he's also moved me. He's moved me around for, you know.

Yeah.

Um, it's 15 years.

Um, into a Renee-centric moment.

You know, and he's like, you've always supported everything I wanted to do, whether, you know, it was any of the places when, you know, what I wanted to do with my career, what I knew I had to do for my career and that. So when it came down to this, like, that's why we're in Florida because I was like, I'm done being cold. I don't want to live. I've done Alaska. I've done Europe. Like, I appreciate, I like that I can visit the cold, but I can't live there anymore.

Right. I understand that. That's exactly how we ended up here too. Like, I was so over the Arctic blast. of the Midwest that I just told, I wanted to live where I could go to the beach quickly. And there just aren't that many options. I mean, as much as it's really not like, not my most favorite state, I still feel like there's more pros than cons. And Florida has a lot of freedom to basically create the life you wanna create, which is what we really wanted to do.

Yeah.

And so I can understand, you know, just wanting something different than you'd had before. So I'm so glad he was so supportive, especially on the travel advisor journey, because we know it takes a while to make money. And there's a lot of time investment. So what kind of trainings did you do at the beginning? Because obviously you had all of the travel experience, but what about the sales piece and the marketing piece and that type of stuff?

So I think that's where the challenge really came because there's a lot of trainings you can do for suppliers. And even within, it doesn't matter what CRM or host you're with because they all have their own trainings on how they want you to input things into systems and how to make You know, all of those, you know, things happen. So you, and ultimately that you get paid. And so yes, there was a ton of supplier trainings and stuff at the beginning, but there really wasn't anything to help you really hone in on that, like how your process looks. So if someone reaches out and says, hey, I want to go on vacation.

Yeah.

That's where for me, I was like, okay, great. Where do you want to go? Right? Like there was, it just, that's where I felt like it started to fall off the rails. Like, or someone, you know, people are famous for reaching out and like a Facebook Messenger or a DM or a text or whatever that is. And you're like, I don't want to have this conversation here. How do I get it away from this setting?

Yeah.

Um, and even if you move it to email, it's still like—

Antiquated.

Yes. It's so back and forth.

Crunky, like junky. Is it, what's the word? I'm like—

Clunky. Yeah. Very. It just—

One of those unck words.

It was so hard. And I, you know, that was the one thing I never got in any training of, of, of how to, how to do that sales process. And I was always told, well, it's gonna be different for every agency. It's gonna be different for however you build your business.

Right.

Well, yes, but even they would give you a form. You can like, here, this is a form they can fill out.

And I was like, no. Hey, we're not at a doctor's office.

I know. So that to me wasn't it either. And that's where I just like that. I understand that having someone available to you to reduce that learning curve makes a huge difference. I always had that kind of support every time we moved in the military, cuz you get a, Within, at least within the airframe my husband was flying, there was always a community and we kind of moved around to different bases within the same community. So there's usually someone there I already knew.

Okay.

So they bring you in, they take, okay, this is the doctor that we use. This is the best grocery store. Like, and they bring you in and they kind of give you a way to start, at least to begin. And you have that when we moved to Europe because it's so hard. Like, and I'm like, that's what I know I need. I just No one has this for me because they want you to develop it on your own. And then, you know, heaven forbid you ask in a Facebook group how to do that.

Oh my God.

Oh my God. And get attacked for—

It's the trap of just like being new.

Right.

It's just a trap.

You don't, you don't know what you don't know, and then you get punished for asking the question. And I'm like, okay, so I can't do that either. I'm sorry that happened.

Oh my gosh. That makes me so sad.

Um, so what do I, you know, even using the search function and you do all the things right, and even if you still ask what you know, an experienced person deems as a beginner question, you should know better.

Um, well, the gatekeeping in our industry is so weird because when you really think about everybody who had their first day at this career, like whether it was 20 years ago or 2 years ago or 2 days ago, it, there was a day when you knew very little, you knew the bare minimum. And so exactly some, and a lot of us were thrown in the deep end. Some of us had mentors, some of us were From the '80s, whenever I talk to somebody who made 10% on airfare commission, I'm always like, damn girl. Like, you know, that's the, that's the OG days.

Right.

But there was a lot more, I feel like, tourism training back in the '80s. They had to go through Sabra or G, uh, whatever.

I'm— GDS.

GDS training. They had, there were certain things that I feel like were required almost.

Mm-hmm.

And now that's totally different, which is why I think a lot of advisors get frustrated by all the questions because it's like, we had to do all of this and this and this and this. And we didn't have somebody on Facebook to tell us what to do. And I would get so overwhelmed during COVID times. That's when I really got more involved in Facebook groups and stuff. Cause I was bored. I was like really bored during COVID I was sad and bored. So I was like, I'm gonna start hanging out in travel agent groups, see what's going on.

Yeah.

And it was like, Like an explosion of some of the most crazy shit I've ever read. And so I was like, I can help you with that. I can teach you how to do that. Because it was like no one wanted to help these people. No, no one wants to help. And I'm like, it's still like that. It's still challenging for people who are new to ask questions and they're just expected to know where to even go to find it. Which I think a lot of hosts don't have great, like, step-by-step procedures, which is why they're so confused. And there's just so much to it. And I think too, no one really tells them before they start. This is a business. This isn't just a hobby. And when you kind of come in and ask a very rudimentary question, people want to know how you even got this far. Like, right. So I think that's why it's like the wild, wild west in Facebook groups. Traveling to Facebook groups.

It is. And then, and I'm like, oh, I, if I ever have to post in one, I have to, I think it's a, I'm going to read this 18 times before I ever hit send. And is there any way someone's going to come at me, bro, for this?

No. I mean, that's why I started Maximize. I started it because I was genuinely like, I feel like there needs to be a little bit of a safer space to— yes, we're gonna be direct, we're gonna tell you the answer, but also like, this can't be the only place you ask questions. Like, it has to be a give and take, even if it's celebrating somebody else's success or something like that. And I'm so— I love this. I love Maximize because of that. Like, yeah, and I screen every question, so if it's really bad, I just give them the answer in DMs. And then I'm like, we can't— Have this question up, they will lose their shit.

But at the same time, like, I found that group and I probably just from more searching, but I was like, okay, there's some, like, I don't feel like everyone's mad all the time. All the time. And, um, I need somewhere that I can at least, even if I'm not asking it, if other, if it's the same thing, I, same thing I tell my kids, if you're thinking it and you have that question, you're not the only kid in that room that's thinking it and has that question. Just raise your hand and ask it because I guarantee after class someone's gonna be like, thanks for asking that question.

Sure. Yeah.

Right.

We all want to know. I learned something very new about the business yesterday. I'm not gonna get into it, but I just find it doesn't matter how long you have been here doing travel. There are business models and there are obviously products and destinations. There's just no way to ever know every single thing.

No.

And it's just a matter of figuring out where to find it. And then being willing to research and develop that as a skillset in your kind of in your like toolkit of like, this is what I now know. And as a coach, I learn a ton of stuff now about a lot of things I did not realize I was going to learn about. So it, the conversations are just really crazy to me sometimes, but I'm glad to have that opportunity because there are days I get really bored with the travel side. So I'm like, yeah, tell me all the things over here about this crazy business model you're dealing with.

Oh.

But I do think like that's where people also don't That's where it's like, we've got to start niching. We've got to start narrowing down what we do to make it easier on us to do the job we want to do. And then if somebody has a question about what we do, we can give that back to the community. And hopefully the community will meet us where we are on things we don't know or things we want to learn and where to find them. Right. It's not always that we want the answer. Sometimes it is just, can you point me in the right direction?

Right direction. Yeah. That's all I need. Hey, look over this way because you're over here, you look over here. That makes you like, I don't need you to give me the direct answer. I just need to know where I should be looking to find, or is there a resource I don't know about that does provide the answer X, Y, and Z for me? Yeah.

I wish we would give new people, even in situations we don't always agree with, a little bit more benefit of the doubt instead of just assuming that all they want is the answer. But sadly, that's just not the world we live in. It was like, I felt like I needed to create something that they could have a soft landing spot. And if I, you know, didn't feel like they should ask that question, I was like, I'm gonna do, I'm just gonna give you the answer over here. I'm curious how your business looked prior to finding Maximize and all the tools and resources there.

Um, I felt like it looked different every time I got a client. So it was just me trying something different this time versus what I did last time, because I didn't really like Like that. So maybe I'll try this way this time. And then I think my second booking ever was a family group to Mexico. And it was like, you know, like 5 rooms and 15 people. That's a lot. And I was like, now knowing what I know now, I would've obviously done it completely different.

Right.

But again, I had no idea really where to even, where to even start on, on like That process because there was a general guide, but nothing that really walked you through like how to, how to make this a clear step process. So yeah, there was like, it ended up being a lot of emails and one phone call to get that all like booked. And after that one, I just, I looked, I told my husband, I was like, I feel like there can be, there's gotta be a better way cuz all these other people are doing things and they're booking more and they're doing it and it has to be a streamlined process.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Because, you know, we, you put the business plan together, you put like kind of what you think you're going to do. And we both agreed to that. Like we weren't, I wasn't expecting to make a profit for at least the first 3 to 5 years. And anything that did come in, I wanted to reinvest back into experiences, knowledge, whatever we needed to do to make—

That's so smart.

To make it grow. So we, we both came into it. Doing that and knowing that. So we've like, we understood that piece of it. I think that's the other background piece that maybe people are missing when they come in is they just, you know, okay, I'm here. I'm going to do this.

I'm paying my monthly fee. I, you know, I'm now what? But like, they don't realize—

But there's no plan.

The money and investment they're going to make as they move through the processes and learning stages of being a travel advisor.

Yeah. Honestly, with probably any entrepreneur or small business, like it's a lot of, it's a lot of, you know, showing up, doing things, not necessarily getting paid for a really long time and, and, and, and doing that, but being able to find the, how to find the answers, right? To get you to that next, next spot. And I was—

What was the missing piece? Like, I know that you— go ahead. Sorry.

No. And that's kind of where I was going. I was like, the missing piece for me was like, okay, they've contacted me. How do I get them through the, to a booking stage that works and is not clunky and it's clear? Because we would waffle and then like, well, can I see 3 more options? Or let's go back to that other option. That's a better price. And it just like narrowing down how to really get what they needed and in a streamlined process. Right. So when I joined Maximize, I think like October-ish maybe, and I think you were, had just started.

Yeah.

Talking about launching that Propose to Close.

Yeah. Propose to Close.

And I was reading it and I was like, this feels like it's gonna solve it. And I had already purchased like email templates from random person over here and other, and I was like, none of this solves the problem. It's a great template, but I don't, I'm not even to the point where I can use that template.

Right. You didn't know where the template fit into the process. So it's like, I have this great email, but like, when do I send it? How do I send it? Why do I send it?

Exactly. Because you have all these people selling all of these like random things to help you, but if you don't know how the process looks to be able to use them, it's—

Right.

It's almost a useless thing you've bought. And I'm like, I don't even know. I can't, like, this doesn't make sense to my brain. And so what you were explaining and writing, like, in the, like, description inside Maximize, I was like, this sounds like it solves what I'm looking for.

Yeah.

I'm gonna, I'm, I'm going to invest in this because I think it will answer my, my problems because I had spent all of most of 2023 spinning wheels that I didn't, I, I didn't think I needed to spend.

Did you take the course right away after you got it or did you wait a little bit?

So I did the presale, so I was waiting for it to launch.

That presale was fun. I was very unexpected, by the way, like from my side, like, and of course I was like, what if this sucks? Shit. Like, I think like 100 agents bought it in advance, and I was like freaking out.

Yeah, I was one of them.

Oh God, oh God, what if they—

Because I was waiting for that— was it a November release date?

Yeah, so I did an 11/11 release date because, you know, I love all my numbers. I love all my ones and all that. So—

I remember doing it. I remember taking it, and I said, I'm starting it right now, and I did it. Like, I took, I printed, I had a binder, I printed everything out. I was taking notes. I did the whole thing and I was like, okay, so, and then I started setting things up. I set up my Calendly. I redid the Google Calendar. I did all of those things. Like I went through the whole thing. And so as the holiday season rolled around, I had everything in place and I said, okay, I'm, I'm going to start fresh with Wave season. And so as everyone started contacting me over the holidays, you know, it's like the 26th hits and everyone sat around on the 25th, they're like, we're gonna take a vacation this year. And they all start contacting you on the 26th. I said, okay, I'm not working yet because I was not gonna give up my time with my kids outta school.

Oh, that's so sweet.

I said, I will be ready to start talking on January 5th. And people— Did they wait? They waited and they started booking and I was like, well, okay. And then I remember the first person that paid my fee and she was like, that's it?

Oh my gosh. Whenever they say that, we know we have to.

And I was like, shoot, maybe I did something wrong.

It's always good to feel like, okay, not only do they value me, but they also think I'm worth more than I'm charging. So that's always a good feeling.

So it was good. I had someone who kind of poo-pooed it a little bit at the beginning and they tried to go with someone else who didn't really know Europe that was a bit more Disney-based. And she ended up telling them that she's like, I can't do this. And so she came back and was like, yeah, we're going to pay the fee and we're going to go with you. And I said, okay.

Great.

Um, as long as you were clear with her, like that, you, you know, and they're like, yep. She even said, we, we probably need to find someone else cuz I can't do it because she didn't know. And she was—

Well, Europe is a big animal. Just like I, I, I know Disney because I moved down here and figured it out, but it is a lot too. So it's like, it's not that they're any less valuable. It's that that is not their, that's not their niche. And trusting somebody that doesn't understand the processes and the rules of that country, it's just like. If I don't know what a Lightning Lane is, I shouldn't be booking Disney. So, you know, and if you don't know what the new visa is called, and I'm blanking on it, for London, you probably shouldn't be—

The ETA.

The ETA. The ETA.

Yep.

Um, so I think it's just one of those things where you're navigating that with that person. And if you're both being honest with yourself, it's like, okay, and Renee really has her shit together and she charges this fee, but like, This girl didn't know anything about what we need, you know? So I think it's so cool that they boomeranged. That's what I call a boomerang.

Yep. And they went—

They leave, they come back and you're like, oh, okay.

And I mean, it was a bit of a, they were going to Norway. And so that was kind of a complex trip because that's kind of a, they really wanted to see it all. And, and to do that, you have, there's planes, trains, buses, um, Uh, ship, all of it involved. So there was so much mo— there were so many moving pieces to that. And it was, it was a lot of work and it worked out really well. They had an amazing time. They're like, we can't wait to do our next trip with you. They have referred other people to me since then, just based on that. They even sent me, sent me a thank you note.

Oh, that's so nice.

With, uh, like a wine gift card and everything.

Like— That's so nice.

It's just so surprising. Like, I'm like, I don't even know what to do cuz I'm getting, I'm at the mailbox and I'm in tears because I have a client that I send them a thank you note, but you sent me one and it, it's wow.

That's when you are in the moment of propose to close where we talk about aligned clients. And I have that questionnaire. It's like, no, you can actually envision this human being because you have met them. You have worked with them. That's what I always tell people. I'm like, you can't have like 15 aligned clients. You have one type of client, the person who is so grateful they send a thank you card and they know I like red wine. Like, that's, that's the definition of— and then you literally can name it. You can name her, you can name what that looks like for you, and then you can start marketing to that. That's who I wanna work with every time I book someone on a vacation. And has— do you feel like that you are now attracting more of those thank you card givers?

Yes. Or even, and I don't even, cuz that is completely unexpected for me, but the ones that like, they just text you while they're on vacation because they want you to see it because you've developed that relationship with them and they wanna be like, look where we are, or look what we did. Or, you know, if you're VIPing people. Yeah. They're like, they wanna share what you've done for them. They wanna share.

That's awesome.

You know, or if you VIP them to something and they get the champagne in their room because you let hotel know it was their anniversary and they, they have it and they're like, thank you. Like they said, this was from you. You know, like it's just because, you know, you've, you, they feel comfortable. I guess that's the bigger thing is like we've developed a relationship. We can text about, you know, questions or even the fact that you're having an amazing time and you want me to see where you are and that you're loving it. And I think that's the bigger part of it is like the relationships and that got, because you had clear communication with propose to close. So from the very beginning, we're talking clearly, we're asking the right questions, we're moving them along. It's so easy when you have a very clear process. So each step of the way, Yeah. Everyone has to, everyone has to answer. So the client has to answer, I have to answer till we get to the ending point. And it's a very, it's very Hey, step one, step two, step three.

Seamless and painless, and everybody's on the same page because the expectations on both sides are met.

Met, and it's been clearly laid out for both of you from the time they connect with you, right?

Tell me about the client who said that she loved your process so much that she started implementing it in her own business. So I read that, I was like, that is so cool.

So it was one of my Europe clients this summer, and she was You know, I'm available with them, right? If they have questions and we, I had them in Paris and that was when that soccer, the soccer thing happened and that team from Paris ended up in the like big match. And Paris kind of started shutting down. Their hotel was on the Champs-Élysées and the whole street was shut down. And there was, there was so much going on, so much going on.

Stuff I'm kind of not used to here. Like, we don't, that does not happen that way here. No.

And it was her first big trip to Europe. She had her husband, she had her kids. And I'm on the phone with her and she's like, the guy, the driver is telling me he cannot get here because they blocked all the streets. I mean, there were some things that shouldn't have happened that did happen, but I said, okay, go back over to the hotel, have them call you a cab where they want you to meet them at to take it, because they were going to miss their Eurostar to London at this point.

Oh no.

And we got them all and she was like, okay, we're going with the flow. This is good. But you're on the phone with me the whole time. Like you're, you're, you're walking me through this. And I'm like, absolutely. Like, I'm not going to just like leave you. And the night before even, they had gone on a river cruise where they were sparkled with, you know, she's like, I just want to see the Eiffel Tower sparkle. That's all I want from this trip. And so they had done that and they were taking a cab back to the hotel because the streets were starting to get a little chaotic because the game was going on. But every time that they scored, the Eiffel Tower sparkled. I was watching the game and I That is so fun! So I said, they just scored, look at the Eiffel Tower, 'cause it was behind her. And she's like, I can see it sparkling! Like she texted, like, you know, so it's just, you know, I guess it's—

But it's like, here's the good stuff, but yeah, I'm also here for all the crap.

For the bad stuff. Yeah, right?

For all the stuff that is going crazy and you don't know what to do next. That's amazing.

But just, you know, being available, answering questions when she had them, even if they were, they might seem, she's like, I know this is silly. I know this is silly. Every time I was like, it's not silly.

No.

You're fine. Just, just ask all of it. Um, and, you know, and she got home and she get— you come home to a thank you note from me and, you know, that kind of thing. And she's like, it's just some of the personal touches that you do, it reminds me of, you know, I can do things even better in my business. And I want to start implementing a few of those things where I'm, you know, a little bit more hands-on with people.

That's awesome.

And I, I like that. I prefer to work with people that way. I have a hard time understanding, and I know other, everyone has their own business model, but the way I interact with other people, because I care, I can't, I couldn't fathom having 25 clients a month and all the different destinations and being able to accommodate that many people at once. Yeah.

Just that quantity over— it's okay if that's what you wanna do, but having that quality client with With a larger commission, especially who pays the fee, you can really give them that level of attention.

And they, they share that, right? So in return, I think she has, she's been someone that's referred multiple people to me, very like-minded aligned clients as well, because they all know her. And again, same level of service applies to, applies to all of them. And I, I enjoy that piece of it. And if there is a problem, I do like alleviating that stress for someone because it is scary if you've never done it before and you, you don't know what you're stepping into. And if I can make it easier for you, and I, that's, I don't know. I think I, I don't know my, those, what, Enneagrams and all of the things that I, that you can be. I don't take the tests, but I also know in my core that helping people is the thing that fills me up.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I don't need you to buy me anything. Um, I don't really even need too many words of affirmation, but if I can help you and you're happy and you got a problem solved, then I feel good. Like that's the thing that fills my cup.

What gets you out of bed tomorrow to keep going.

Yes.

Okay, y'all, let's pause for a quick break. I need you to know you have never been trained in sales. Yeah, you might know how to use your CRM and book a preferred vendor or post on Instagram. But none of that teaches you how to close the damn sale. And if you're tired of hearing that travel sells itself while you watch prospects take your hard work and book elsewhere, it's time to fucking change that. I am introducing you to the Propose to Close Sales Course, a no BS step-by-step program designed to help travel advisors like you weed out tire kickers, stop quoting in the DMs and finally close sales without feeling pushy or salesy. This intensive 10-hour, 9-module course will teach you how to qualify prospects, send one fabulous proposal instead of 5, 10, 15, build real connections very quickly, and close the sale in under a week. Whether you're brand new or a veteran stuck in burnout, This course will give you the skills and confidence to transform your travel business and your fucking life. So if you're ready to stop spinning those wheels and start running a business that works for you, head to my website to grab the Propose to Close Sales Course. And don't forget to check out the show notes for an exclusive coupon code. Okay, now back to the pod. Yeah, I totally understand that process as well, and I think Well, that's why I coach the agents now. So people keep asking me why I don't have a host company. I'm like, well, that's a lot of commitment too. And I wouldn't have the ability to do that and have an impact at a greater level on so many agents, especially newer ones. But I think too, your confidence from like the beginning of this, even telling this story to now, is just like leveling up. Like every single thing you can tell, like in that timing of taking Propose to Close, like your confidence. Changed. And when your confidence is more, you're able to reflect that onto your client. I got this. I'm— and when you have it, they can feel it. And when you don't have it, they can feel it.

Exactly.

So being able to know what to do is so huge in the service arena and in the, in the sales process. And then just even imprinting some of that into her so that she wants to carry that into her business. I think that is Incredible.

And the clear— she's like, your communication is so clear. She's like, every email you send, it's very clear either what I need to do or the information that you're providing me, whatever is on the timeline. And she's like, I always know if I have a question, I can go back and look there. She's like, I don't always, sometimes I just text you, but she's like, I know that it's in there. I know that you've given it to me.

Mm-hmm.

And she's like, I love how detailed and clear your communication is. I wouldn't have been able to get to that point without having a framework from propose to close and then ultimately close to home through the process, because there wasn't a guide for that. And obviously we take it and then we tweak it for our business and what works best for us, you know, and the process. So again, not everyone's is gonna look and feel the same. But it gives you a starting point. If you have no idea what you're supposed to be really doing, it at least gives you a place to like, okay, this framework, because I just, I, again, and I'm looking out there still even now, and I don't see anyone providing a clear framework for anyone unless maybe privately certain, um, hosts maybe have it.

Well, yeah, you could maybe be getting some mentorship or something like that, but I always tell people the right people, the right agents will find me because they're looking for it.

Yeah.

And they're not getting it. It's not there. There's just this huge hole in the market. And when I first started writing my courses, I genuinely thought I was just gonna write First Class Community Facebook and be done. Here's what I offer. And it just turned out that a lot of the stuff I was doing in the business was not available as a whole product, as something that is taught. And really it's just sales process. And it sounds so easy when you get into it and you're like, why haven't I been doing this the whole time? But it's because nobody teaches it to you that way. We're all taught the hustle culture of like, you have to answer every email. You have to answer within 3 hours. You have to, have to text back and forth quotes. I'll never forget, I was on a plane. I'd gone to a retreat with Vacation Express as President's Club. It was my first year back and I got invited and I was like, cool, this is— I didn't expect to get invited when I first came back to travel. But I was on a plane next to somebody. I could tell she was an agent and she was working on just her phone on the wifi and she was texting quotes. And I was like, why is she doing that? Like, we're on the plane. Like, just enjoy the experience. I was having wine and hanging out with Eric, and I was like, she's working. And he's like, well, you used to be her. Stop judging. And I'm like, okay, fair, fair. Because I did. I was a total workaholic because I had not been— I had not trained myself on how to pause, which I think is a huge skill set you have to learn when you get a lead.

Yes.

And so what do you do Now that you didn't do before when you get a lead you do not want, Renee?

Like, I, I have people that I can hand things off to, especially if it's something that isn't something I can either handle at that time. I'm not willing, like I really can't take on that level of something at that point. Um, I have a wonderful group that, you know, from Momentum and some other people now that I've met and over the, the last couple years that I can say, okay, you know what? I'm gonna give Krissy a call. I'm gonna give Kim a call.

We love Krissy.

These are, I have people that I can talk to about things and I can be like, hey, I have this person. I think that, can you help? Because I think it's a better fit for what you do. Like, you know, if someone came to me and wanted a destination wedding, I'd have to be like, nope, I cannot. That is, I have no idea. But I have some people I can call.

Right.

Um, would you be, you know, okay with, um, me giving you to a colleague of mine that I know can— that I know specializes in this?

That's awesome.

That's okay. Like, right.

And it doesn't—

you don't have to take everything, right? And I've had a client that I did that for. He gave me a referral and I said, I can't, that is not something I'm really servicing at this point. I, I had no idea who to reach out to. I actually went into one of our groups and asked, I asked you as well, and someone did take it. And that lead still called me back and said, thank you for connecting Rachel and I. I, we love her. She's fantastic. She was able to answer all. And I'm like, that's so great. I'm so happy for you. Like, I'm 1,000% that you found someone that can do what you need. And he's like, thank you so much. And then—

I think that's so cool too, because somehow maximizing which is pretty big.

Yeah.

Have shrunk down to smaller groups in the, like, Proposed to Close exclusive group. And that's, you know, so you were getting to meet up with people who have also taken the training you have, which is not something I expected. I think I was like, I'm gonna build community. But when you can build the more intimate spaces and then Momentum, and you guys and your little core group that came out of Momentum survived the hurricane together, you're all friends now. None of you You don't work at the same host. You all are doing your own thing. No, I think so.

Yeah.

Like whenever you guys tell me about those experiences, I'm just like, this is actually what I am so glad I built. Like all the courses in the world don't— there's just nothing more enjoyable than seeing advisors communicate with each other who are not in competition constantly or gatekeeping constantly and are not afraid to hand someone off that they know they're gonna get a very similar experience because they've taken the same training.

Yes.

That is like the coolest. I think that's pretty much the coolest thing I've experienced amongst like watching you guys from the outside. And I know that you and Chrissy Cole are like really close friends now.

We are, yeah.

Aren't you going on some kind of fam with her?

We are, yeah. I'm going with her on her Explora Journeys cruise because we both at the same time met up with our individual reps and we both were texting each other. I'm like, have you heard of— and we're like, yes, I just had a meeting with them.

That's awesome.

And I was like, I think I really like loving this for our, like my clients. She's like, me too. And maybe a day—

Because Victoria is like a luxury level cruise line.

Cruise line.

Is it ocean cruises or is it river cruises? What do they do?

It's ocean cruising.

Okay.

But it is luxury, but they also cater to multi-gen families. So you, you can have kids on there.

Oh, awesome.

So for your luxury families that like, they don't want to be on Disney anymore, or they need something That, you know, that can do families.

A little more elevated, but still—

That is an elevated experience, but they're welcome there. They have a kids club. They do activities for them.

So cool.

I was like, oh my God, this is what I was like, I've been looking for this and I couldn't find it anywhere. And so I just was, you know, really, really excited. Anyway, like maybe a day later, I think she got an invitation to cruise with them for like 4 nights or whatever. And she's like, I can bring a plus one. Do you want to come with me? And I was like—

That is so nice.

Exciting. I will figure out my schedule, um, because I had already committed to another fam for Greece at the end of October. And so it was like a week and a half later.

Wait, are you doing both? Are you gonna—

I'm doing both.

Yes!

I, uh, I was like, hey, Mom, I know I— my mom had retired, you know, in the last year, so that's why we were doing a lot of traveling and stuff together.

This is why I take you on trips. We're trading.

I say, can you come for a month and help me? Because I was like, I mean, my husband can't be home the whole month. And there's a lot of times with the amount of things, I have 3 kids that are going in 3 different directions.

Girl, same. Not the 3, but different directions.

I mean, I need, I need another adult. I need a driver. You need at least 2 licensed drivers to take everyone to the places they need to be.

Correct.

So I was like, can you come for a month? I just, I don't see how this will work if I don't. And she's like, sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So a supportive mom, that's amazing. And I love that you guys are doing this together.

So my mom can drop my kids off at school and go walk on the beach, which is her favorite thing to do because it's literally like a 5-minute drive from dropping them at school to go to the beach. So she gets, she gets a bonus out of it too. Like she gets to do that, but she, you know, she can help me out. And then like I said, we've, I've taken her on plenty of trips now and done all that, but Like the fact that, you know, Chrissy and I are like, yes, we're doing this. We're so excited. And we're talking about other places that we can try and travel together as well, because while it's fun to do some of that stuff, you know, individually, it's so much better when you can be with— Girl, I just invited Kori Caldwell to help me with Japan.

And she was like, I really want to invite myself on this trip. And I was like, please invite yourself. I'm dating just Jude. So I was like, I have zero desire to go to Asia. I've never, it's never been on my bucket list. And I know everybody says it's amazing. It's just never been on my bucket list. And when I reached out to Tori last year to tell her about Jude, she's like, it's going to be amazing. And, and I got really anxious about the opportunity to plan it. I was like, I can do it. I can figure this out. I can spend hours and hours and hours of my own time learning Tokyo and, you know, Kyoto and Fuji. Yeah. There's all these places, but I was like, I'm overwhelmed 5 minutes in. It's just not a place I wanna learn how to sell.

Yeah.

Hello. Sorry, my cat is making a little bit of a home on me. And so I did, I called her, I hired her to do the trip, but then, yeah, she was very like, what if I came with you? And I'm like, sold. Sure. Yeah. She's coming. And we met at Momentum as well. And you know, it's very unexpected relationships that form, but there's just a trust there because we're all like-minded. We wanna hang out. We wanna all do different things. I think it is so cool, all the stuff that has come out of that trip, despite the hurricane, despite the craziness. I'm just so glad for you guys. I'm glad for me. I'm glad for everybody that was able to experience that. And anyone who's going through something, I always tell people like, you can find your people.

You can.

You just have to be committed to doing things that are outside your comfort zone and be willing to open up the conversation beyond, what do you sell? And how long have you been a TA? It's like, no, you have to get to know people and really invest in people the same way you would wanna be invested in.

Exactly. Knowing that, I mean, yes, are we all still doing the same thing? But there's, again, there's enough business for everybody.

There really is.

There really is. And there, there's no sense in gatekeeping anything like that. Just, it's the, it's the rising tide lifts all ships. And if we are going to be successful, if we are going to be women running businesses and doing that, I'm sorry that like catty and gatekeeping and not working together doesn't, it doesn't interest me. I would rather walk them through something if they're trying to learn how to do it than, and then not. Right. And I've done that with, even with Chrissy, like she's, she was moving on into Europe and learning those things.

Yeah, I know you've helped me.

We've spent so much time on the phone and, you know, and answering questions and doing all that, and I would do it again tomorrow, always in a heartbeat. Um, I ask her questions too.

It's good karma too. I mean, let's be real, just being open and helping others means that something good is going to come your way in a different way than would be if you were just shut off. And I really do think it like opens up our soul a little bit to just give back to our communities and Yes. Not like the information is not available to everybody. It's just, again, like making it easier to find, pointing us in the right direction.

Yes.

But, um, I wanna ask you, cuz obviously you've been practicing Propose to Close now for over a year.

Yeah.

And how has it affected your sales and what you niche in as you like have moved through? Because I know you've had some really huge sales months in 2025. And how that has really felt, like especially not working as much as you did when you first started.

Yeah. So I, you know, people talk about hitting like $100,000 a month and you're like, well, it, it did happen. Right.

I mean, in sales, we don't mean—

In sales.

Yeah.

So like, but booking, you know, booking in that entire month, $100,000 worth of travel.

That's amazing.

It's, and you aren't working.

Mm-hmm.

I, I also know that like mine, it happened at the beginning of this year during wave season for me. And I had that entire month, I had 3 kids homesick during it. I like, I moved my laptop so I could sit like in the chair on the couch with them because we were homesick for so long. And I'm planning and booking and doing all this stuff and it's happening, but at the same time I'm like, I'm not doing it. like still wearing my mom hat and booking amazing, these, you know, these amazing vacations. And you have to, and, and being able to do both while having all of that go on, because I had a clear, like I knew what I was doing.

Right.

Because I had the framework.

Because it also comes as habit after you're practicing it.

It does. It doesn't feel like—

The beginning can be a little rough or like—

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, but it becomes so much easier and it becomes Like, I don't really have to think about it anymore. It just, it's just the way that I do things now. Right. So it doesn't, it's not a, okay, I have to have this and I have to do it then. And then I go, no, it just, it flows.

It just flows. Yes. And that's the idea too. I think people don't realize, like, it's just like anything else you're learning. You're like learning how to crawl before you walk. You're learning how to walk before you run. And being new in this business can feel crazy. You can just feel like you don't have any, like you're not going in the right direction. But if you just take it step by step, making himself at home on my desk, you'll be surprised if you do have that framework. And if, even if it's not my framework, any framework at all will, will start to help you. It's just doing the steps versus trying to weed through it differently each time.

Yes.

It's one thing to mat— you know, meet your clients where they are, but You are the only person who can control your side of it. And if you don't have a process, it's going to feel completely out of whack. It can be 10 years in and you can be like completely out of whack. So I'm so glad. $200,000 months in 2025, girl.

What?

Yeah. That is so cool. And I know you don't work very many hours a week.

I mean, I, I can't.

Right.

I mean, if we just look at what my day looks like, I mean, it starts at 5:00 AM so that I can get the dog walks and get back, make sure all 3 of them are moving towards making their lunch, getting dry, like finding everything we need to find to get out the door.

Right.

I have 2 different school drop-offs, so I'm dropping the first one off at 7:00 AM, coming back, getting the other 2, doing another drop-off by 8:15. So it's 9:00 before I could really sit down and focus on my job. And then by 1:45, I'm— Back in the car. I have to wrap it up because I have to be going and doing the car lines again. Then we, you know, dropping people at sports or they're staying after school for different meetings. So like dropping one off at, you know, sport thing, coming back and picking up another one and stuff. So depending on the day, I might come home for, you know, an hour or 2, maybe.

Squeeze it in.

Or I'm, or I'm circling around again and it's 7:30, 8 o'clock before I'm So I know I have a really tight window every day that I can work in. So I have to be really effective with those hours that I have. And some days, yeah, I do have to do things in the evenings to get it done. Like after everyone's had dinner and we got back home and they're showering and doing all that stuff. And sometimes the weekends come in too. It just kind of depends on how, how my week rolled out.

How that week goes. Yeah, it runs the rails, you know. None of our weeks look exactly the same. Yeah.

Right? If my mommy train went way off track for the week and things happened and like, oh, if I got a call in the middle of the day that somebody's sick and I have to now go pick them up and come back, like, okay, that, that day's off the tracks. Yeah, we're no longer on track. No longer on track. So you have to like going with the flow, but at least that I have an organized system within my business. Because I will be very honest that I hired a business coach to walk me through getting, um, a clear system for every day on what I should be doing each day. So Like there's travel agent things that need to be done, but there's also everything you need to do to run a successful, like to run your own business. Like you have to file the taxes, you have to do the receipts. You need to be logging all of those things into whatever accounting thing you're doing.

Right.

There are, you know, other client check-in things that you need to be doing. If you marketing, social media, like all of that stuff. And it needs to have a place. Right.

A day to do it or a time to do it.

To do it and how you're gonna do it.

Like calendar control is huge.

Yeah. And how you're going to kind of commit to that. And I worked with her to develop a, with her process that makes sense for my brain.

Awesome. That's excellent.

On how to do that. So I have it, I have a dashboard and I, that's an hour commitment, 5 days a week. And if I can get it done in less than an hour, great. Like I'm done. I move on to the TA stuff, but so that the business things get taken care of as well. Because we have shiny object syndrome so hard in this industry.

Oh my gosh.

And I'm getting—

But it's a women thing too. Like, we love a nice purse.

Yeah, we get together.

Like, come on. So we're gonna slow down and look at that, or we're gonna maybe think we should buy that thing when we don't need it right now in our business. And yeah, it's definitely a real thing. And that's what I tell people even about my stuff. I'm like, please do not buy it until you're actually going to commit to doing it, implementing Yes. And you have the time, money for it. Like I tell people that all the time. I mean, I told somebody that this morning, I was like, I don't think this is the right fit for you right now. It's not because it won't be in the future, but you don't even have— Not right now. You don't even have a travel agency. You don't have a host. There's no reason to take an advanced sales course that like you don't have any clients. So it's not me being like, you're not good enough. It's that it's not the right time.

Exactly.

And it's important to recognize that, be more self-aware in our decision-making and take that pre-K pause because it matters. It makes a huge difference. I'm so impressed with everything you have done and you've given such great advice already, but I would love to hear your 3 things that you think a travel agent should do today to move their business forward that's free, that they don't have to pay for anything.

One's the relationship building. You can build relationships with other agents very— it doesn't cost anything. You can get in the group. You can, you know, ask questions, but you can also say, I saw you did that. I love— can you tell me more about it? And learn about other people and what they're doing. But those relationships that you can make are, they're, they're free. Like learning about other people online. Making friends is free. Making friends is free.

Making friends is free.

I love that. Um, and then like showing up, like, hey, maybe you did get invited to something and it doesn't cost, or maybe it's like a $15 ASTA lunch or something that your local chapter's having or whatever, but it's another place to show up and just put yourself in a room to hear things, I think is, or if it's an online webinar that's free or whatever that you can do that puts you in a space where you never know who's gonna ask a question that would be really pivotal. I spent money early on to put myself in some rooms with lots of experience and lots of knowledge just to learn from them, not necessarily from any suppliers or anything like that, but to be able to sit at a table and talk to other people that have been doing it for 15 or 20 years in a space I wanted to be in.

Right.

Even if it's online, that if you could get into any of those, I know, whatever, whatever that looks like for what you want to do.

Absolutely.

Um, and have—

I love that.

And, and you can make your own organized sales process or your own schedule for the day and stick to it. Like you talk about calendar control, and I think people confuse that with, oh, I just, I need to make sure I have everyone's stuff listed on my calendar. That's not, that is part of calendar control, but it's also how you're going to use those hours that you have.

Right.

So if you need to, you need to do social media or you need to write a newsletter or whatever that Okay. So maybe Wednesdays are your newsletter days. And every Wednesday, the first thing you do for 1 hour is you write your newsletter. Mm-hmm.

And I love that. That's that simple, but it's also, if you don't stick to it, then there's no consistency in that marketing. Therefore, the client is not getting that ongoing communication with you. And on this note, I wanna say a lot of people say, well, what does consistency look like? Is it once a month? Is it once a week? It's like, well, whatever it is for you. You have to stick to it. You have to show up the way you wanna be showed up for as well. And so many times people are like, well, I went off the rails and I just didn't come back. And how do I come back? And what do I say when I come back? I'm like, you don't have to say anything. You just need—

No, just come back.

Just come back. Because the one thing I, I follow a lot of sales experts and one of them said in a reel or in one of her lives, she said, somebody else is getting your leads and your business because, and it doesn't, they could be mediocre at what they're doing, but they get your leads because they show up consistently and you don't. So even you could be the best person for that job. You could be the best salesperson, the best in that niche, but because you don't make the effort to consistently show up in your marketing as yourself, being authentic as well, that all those things kind of have to go together, but she does.

Yeah.

She's more likely to get the business because they trust her more to just show up.

Yes.

And they see that consistency. And so there's so much to be said for planning a day for your marketing, planning a day for your calls that you're gonna take with new clients.

Mm-hmm.

Planning a day for calls you're gonna take with current traveling clients and really having that laid out for you each week. And it doesn't mean it can't change either.

No, it evolves.

Like, it can be flexible. Yes.

And mine's of— mine's evolved over the last year from where I I like started to where I am now and what I think that are more, I guess, income-producing activities. So where to spend more of my time. I am pretty much a referral-based business. Most of my stuff comes from referrals. There are some people that are entirely social media, like that's where all of their leads come from. So you also have to look at where, where it's come, where it's coming from. And if you don't know yet, then you do have to kind of try the smattering of things.

Try different things. Yeah.

To see and learn. But if you can start telling very clearly where, where your business is coming from, obviously that's where we need to put our money and put our time and spend more time doing that. You know, and all of the, all of this time, like I, I keep a social media presence, obviously I do those things. But in all actuality, I think 2 maybe clients have come from social media. Mm-hmm. And all of it. And, you know, 95% of it, the rest of them have all been referrals.

Awesome.

So we're—

Word of mouth is probably the number one thing for most advisors.

Yes.

But having a presence somewhere—

I mean, it's, you have to have it, but do you post every day? It's probably not worth the investment of your time to, you know, spend so much time worrying about what to post on social media versus—

Unless that's where everybody leads. Every lead. Yeah.

If that's where every lead is coming from for you, then that, then that's different. But you also have to do that honest reflection. And while you're trying different things, that, you know, the first full year was me trying all the different things. And I also added a newsletter in and did have the Facebook group. And I do, I do feel like I am in a lot of places, but the amount of time and energy spent based on those things vary because of where the business does come from. You know, there are people that see maybe a trip or something that I've done for someone else, either in like the Facebook group or on my newsletter. And I get a direct reach out. Oh, I love that trip. I wanna do that trip.

Right.

Okay. So that, that—

It all kind of goes together. It's like, I know you because of this person and I'm in your group, but you, I also get your newsletter and just, it, it, well, it's, it's multiple touchpoints on the same aspect in the same vein.

Yes.

So if you are doing multiple things, Reusing your content is going to be huge and that's free. Like, let's be real, like multiple use of those content pieces and those ideas and putting them in different places will also help get the word out on what you're doing and your specialty.

Yeah. And just making sure you're treating it, I think, like a business. I think, I think that's the, we talk about some mistakes that, you know, people make and I think not treating it like a business from day one. Even if, you know, it's a part-time for you. I mean, it is, it is somewhat part-time for me because my—

Right, same.

I mean, focus still has to be my, my family for the most part, but not treating it like a business all the time and from day one and making sure that everything I did reflected me treating it like a business and not just an activity or a hobby. And we spend, we can spend, when we get that shiny object syndrome, we can spend so much time Mm-hmm.

For sure.

And I, I, I, that's why I hate seeing people struggle with it because they're, they're spending time spinning their wheels on something that they shouldn't. It's not worth your time to spin your wheels on because you need to set up, you know, your, your business the right way. Um, have a plan, have a process, you know, do the, do, do the hard work and it sucks and it's boring. It's hard. Oh my gosh.

I paid my taxes yesterday. It was like the most painful day of my year. I mean, but it's like, it has to be done. I am an adult. I pay taxes. I have a profit in my business. And if I don't pay them, I'm going to pay more next year at a time when I might not have the money in my account. And one of the most troubling things I saw on my tax reminder post yesterday was, I didn't know this was a thing. And I'm like, okay, why don't we know it's a thing?

Yeah.

And where is that information supposed to come from? So again, it It gives more ideas to like what kinds of trainings are needed in our business to safeguard from this because we want the agents to be having fun, but when they find out they owe an extra $10,000 next April, that is going to be a devastating blow to so many people.

Yeah.

So it's like the simp— the things that I feel like come naturally to me maybe don't come natural to anyone else because they don't have the resources there. And so I think I think it is something that I'm hoping with more of this and more in the Maximize, like more people will start to realize like there are places to find this information and to take it seriously from day one. Because if you do become financially successful, there are consequences to that.

There are, right?

You owe more money to the government. It's like mo' money, mo' problems.

Exactly. We had, this is the conversation we had at lunch. Like, we're like, oh my, you know, like trying to figure out how to keep everything in line, your taxes, not, you know, obviously no one wants to pay more taxes than they have to, but we all still have to do it. And at the end of the day, you have to do the accounting and the finances and stuff like that. And, you know, not at the beginning. No, you can't hire it. You can't hire it out. You have, you do have to learn how to do all of it. And there's free things out there. There's free software out there that will help you do it. Or, and there's a Google Sheet. You could just do it yourself. It's not pretty, but—

I ran off a Google Sheet and I still do. I mean, I kind of am addicted to my Google Sheet versus I am too. Because I like seeing it in one place, like all lined up, and I can go, okay, I made this much money last year in July. I made this much money this year in July. What's the average I'm gonna make? And then be able to have a plan for my taxes next year. And it's, it's the most basic math, math I never thought I would ever have to do, by the way. But, you know, I think it's just taking time to do that and to be super aware of your numbers. That's It's free.

It's free.

It's free.

Okay. And, and say, okay, Mondays I'm gonna look at my numbers. Okay. And honestly, most of us aren't gonna take an hour to look at our numbers. It probably won't take, I mean, maybe at the beginning, but if you're consistently doing it, you're talking about something that takes you 15 minutes on a Monday morning.

And then you move on. Yeah. How much did I spend on my business last week? How much did I make on my business last week?

Yeah. And tracking, you know, and you're tracking your numbers. Cuz if you're not tracking it as you go along in some sort of something, you Have, how do you know what you're doing and where you wanna go and building a financial home? Yeah. Um, so I, I guess I'm a big proponent of that just to making sure that we're all setting up our businesses correctly to succeed and doing that. And where you could find the tools with you and with other people to, you know, learn, learn what you don't know.

There are 2 groups, especially around taxes. Stephanie Cannon's group is Profit Lounge and Andy's group is Taxes for Travel Advisors. Taxes for Travel Agents or something super simple. They both have really inexpensive investment courses, but they do a lot for free too. So if you can get on their lists, I think that is another thing that people can really do is just tap into the resources that are free out there that are filling those gaps for travel advisors, because I can't do it all. And, you know, anybody who's in the education side of this, we can't do everything for you.

Yeah.

And that's it. We just want to point you in those right directions.

Because that's where I think most of the hangups come from is the processes and that kind of stuff. It's not actually booking a trip or finding the resources to, and planning a vacation because that's for us what, right? The fun part, the easy part, the whole reason we got into the business, right?

We're like, yay, we get to book vacations.

Yeah. If I could just do, if I could just build itineraries and plan that all day, it would be fantastic. Right. That would be so, So just phenomenally easy in a sense, but you have, you do have all these other pieces that come into play to make it a whole. And I think unfortunately that's, you get caught up in some of those other ones. And I didn't want this to maybe be a podcast about how to run your business, but at the same time—

That's okay. That's why we're here.

I, I like, I saw your taxes one yesterday and that made me like think about how many people aren't just, they don't know what they don't know.

Right.

Because I know I didn't know what I didn't know on how to get people from point A to point B to point C on the train of sales.

Right.

So wherever your holes are, there's, there's so many resources out there for us that are free to, to use. And it's just—

And use your host company. If you're with a host, if you are signed up with a bigger, especially the bigger hosts, I feel like they have so much, but if you don't take the time to go into their back office and like look at everything and say, what do I need? And maybe even schedule, like in the very early days, at least once a week, one new training to learn a piece of the business.

Mm-hmm.

Because it is so dynamic and there's so many moving parts. And we are the janitor, we are the administrative, we are the president and, and the salesperson and the marketing person, especially in the early days. It's hard To know when to start scaling and hiring, which is a whole other podcast. So is there anything else they can do for free?

There are some great business coaches out there, like on Instagram and stuff, and they do a lot of coaching for free on there. And they have podcasts where they coach for free. And kind of like with you, like you give a lot of it away in different places all throughout there. Like it's there if you wanna find it.

So go to Instagram, start following some business coaches. They're gonna tell you the things. I follow a ton of marketing coaches cuz Instagram is so intimidating. It is like my biggest mountain to climb. So I'm always following all the marketing people on Insta.

Same here. That one is such a hard—

It's a hard nut to crack. It really is hard. I have a niche and it's still really hard to crack. So it is. Imagine if you're trying to do everything all the time.

Right. And I'm like, I can't.

This has been so good. This has been so good. But I want to ask one more question that I ask every guest. And I want to know what your most unpopular travel advisor opinion is.

Unpopular. I guess that you really, that everyone can do everything, right? Like I'm a, I'm a booker of, I can book anything or the jack of all trades in the industry because Because I, you can see that when everyone's, I book the Caribbean, I book Mexico, I book Japan, I book Europe.

Right.

And I'm like, how can you know all those things and well enough to book people? Like, that gives me, like, I'm sweating. I have anxiety when I see that because I'm like, I have a hard time if it's not something I feel really that I understand and know. And, and then maybe the other people are really great about it. And, but That for me is really a hard sell when you want to book something for someone and you, you've never been there or you haven't probably done some intensive training on it, all of those things. And I'm, I'm probably going to get, you know, yelled at for it. No, I don't think so.

No, we don't@ around here, but no, I agree with you because the niching thing also allows you, if you get serious about your niche, you can make the most money because you can work faster. Your time is maximized. And when you find your niche, you will find your people because you won't be marketing to everyone over every— it goes back to having one aligned client. And when people say I'm a specialist in 17 things, I'm always like, okay, you're not a specialist. You're an everythingist, which is not the same thing. And it isn't popular because people are like, but I want to do I do all these things. They make me happy, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I get it, but you can't say you're a specialist in all of those things. To be an expert in anything, you have to spend 10,000 hours. Supposedly someone said that. I don't know how true it is, but I do believe there has to be an investment of education up to a certain point to call yourself a specialist or, you know, certified online freebie isn't— doesn't make you a specialist. It just doesn't.

Yeah.

So I, I don't think you'll get added. I think you will be a surprise.

Okay.

But I'm very nervous now, Marcie. I know.

This wedding is a—

You have to sit in the room with the person that says all the unpopular things and you'll get, it'll be fine.

It'll be okay.

Yeah. No, I love that though. I think it's important to recognize when you're good at something too, people trust you more instead of just saying, oh, I'm gonna have to research this for 17 hours before I get you a quote.

And it's not being like, you were amazing at destination weddings and the Caribbean and stuff. And stuff, but you also knew that you wanted to learn something else and you, you took the time to learn that thing and you've moved into a new era of the things that you book.

And I no longer do destination weddings. Like I've replaced it because I don't have time to continue my learning of destination weddings. I don't want to. And yeah, you're right. Like I was the destination wedding specialist. That is what I did. spent more than 10,000 hours doing that. And I, I can come back to it anytime if that's something I need to do, which is great. But yeah, now even going to Germany was super hard for me. I was like, yeah, I just— take me back to Italy. Can I get on the train now? And it wasn't that I didn't enjoy it. It was just not something I wanna learn more about now.

Yeah.

Like I, I sometimes come back from places and I'm like, yes, I wanna learn lots and lots. And even Tori said, I don't think you're gonna come back from Japan and be like, I wanna be a Japanese specialist. And I was like, no way. Because I literally go to Italy every 6 months. Like, if I'm not in Italy every 6 months, I am. Yeah. So, and people will be like, well, do you do this or do you do that? And I'm like, I can and I will. I'll do a Greece trip. I'll do Paris. I will do these things. I love those places, but they're not my specialty. And that's okay.

Like, that's okay.

Yeah.

But I'm with you. If someone came to me for a Japan trip, I would be like, we got to find someone who knows Japan.

Right. And luckily we know a couple of people. Like, we do have some people that are really good at it.

And I'm, because Because I would be like, I, you have to go to someone who knows this better because it would be both of us bubbling through, through that together. Yeah.

And we want people to be excited and confident when they go on a trip.

Yeah. And I, I feel very comfortable and confident in Europe. I, you know, it's just somewhere I've been going since 2000 repeatedly. I lived in London for a while too, and I know Like that is, that is something that—

Visualize it in your mind.

Visualize it. And you're like, I can see the street I need you to walk down and you're gonna turn and it's, you know, that's gonna be right there what you're looking for.

That's amazing.

So, and just building a trip with someone. And when I see someone and be like, I wanna go to Paris for 3 nights, I wanna go to London for 3 nights, and then I wanna go to Rome for 3 nights.

Wow.

And I only wanna be gone a week.

I'm like, well, that's longer than a week.

And then when you see someone trying to, without thinking that through, accommodate a traveler for that trip without being able to talk them through what that looks like, because Because knowing that trains and automobiles, you're going to spend so much time in transit.

Yeah.

You're never going to really enjoy your, your, your vacation. And I wouldn't want that for you. Like, I want you to spend all that money to have that kind of an experience.

Yep.

And so I just, I'm a big proponent of people like being really good at their things. And if we give those other things to other people that are really good at those things, it's not a bad thing.

It's not.

And that might be an unpopular opinion from everyone that wants to book everything.

That's okay. That's okay. That's why we're here. We're sharing all the things and you can have the business you want to have.

You can.

But this is what Renee believes. And I really like this so much. And I have had so much fun with you today. I am damn proud of you. Like, I feel like I've been on your journey since—

You have been. You've pretty much been there since the beginning.

I'm so glad to get to see you. just grow into this luxury European $100K month girl. Like, I am like, yes, get it. Like, let's make some money.

Well, and you were, you were mentoring me without even realizing that you were probably mentoring me, as I know that you're probably doing with so many people inside of everything that you do. You are giving away so much great advice and mentorship.

Yeah.

And you're changing people's businesses, even though that you may not be able to have this one-on-one conversation with them to know that. So I want you to know, thank you. Thank you, for one. I don't think that I would be where I am if I hadn't have stumbled into your group and taken the chance.

You would've figured it out, I think, but thank you.

Probably, but I wouldn't be, I would've still been figuring it out as opposed to cutting down that steep learning curve, right? Like that's, you know, help people cut down on what they don't know and get to some faster wins within building their business. And you did that for me. went so fast and it snowballed so fast after that point.

I know. And that's what I tell people all the time. I'm like, if you lay down the foundation, it really will pick up steam and you'll have more confidence and you'll book more trips. I mean, and it's just, it, it can really be an amazing, well, it's just been an amazing experience watching you come from that struggling moment of just like, where do I go from here? To even momentum, you were still, there were things that we had to get And just to see you a year out, I mean, almost a year out to the day.

Yes.

From that. And just really have this incredible business that has grown so much. And you guys, you can reach out to Renee. She's an open book. She's amazing. And we're gonna drop all her links in the show notes like I do every week. But thank you so much for being here, Renee. Thank you guys for listening this week.

You're welcome.

And as always, remember that clear is kind and service is everything.

Yes.

Literally nothing is gonna change in your business unless you change it. So thank you again, Renee. I'm so glad for this. That's a wrap on today's episode, friend. Thanks for hanging out with me again on the No BS Travel Advisor Podcast. I hope you're leaving this episode feeling fired up, inspired, and ready to take back control of your business. And let's be honest, your fucking life. If today's episode hit home, do me a favor and share it with your fellow travel advisors who need to hear this. And don't forget to leave a review. Your support means the world and helps me reach more badass advisors like you. And hey, if you've got a story to share or some no BS advice of your own, you've taken a course or two of mine, maybe you've been a coaching client, I want to hear from you. Head to my website to apply. Apply to be a guest. I'd love to feature you on an upcoming episode. Until then, you fucking got this. Keep being bold, keep being unapologetic, and keep building the business you fucking deserve. This is Marcie Muensterman signing off with zero fluff and a whole lot of heart.