https://www.listennotes.com/e/fa57d04210364b2ea35e9ccae02f758b

Hello, this is Kurt Ludhart with the Prosper Group and you're listening to EA interviews.

EA interviews, episode 548, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week. Join Mario Ficcini for today's expert Authority effect interview. Have you ever wanted to grow your business and have some spiritual basis around it? Are you afraid if you can talk about this or not and think about strategies, how you can achieve this and just get your message out there? I have none other than Kurt Luhart on today's episode and I'm super excited because we're going to be talking about a couple of great things that I think are very paramount in everyone's business, finances and spirituality. And I'm super excited because he's covering both of it and we're going to get real fun and bring politics into the mix too. So I can't wait to share him with you. Right after we thank our sponsor.

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Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Kurt Lew Hart. Kurt, how are you feeling today?

I'm feeling great, Mario. Thank you for inviting me on.

Yeah, well, I mean, when I saw what you were about, I was like, done deal. Like I told you, without a doubt. Not backing down from that one bit. But I know we did cover everything you're not supposed to talk about. So what should we get started with first? The finances, the spirituality, or the politics side of it?

Well, we're talking about how all those things can work together for your good, as they should. We can dive into anything.

Well, I want to talk about the liberty spenders market. This is. How long has this term been around? Because it's new to me, but I totally get it and I think it's fantastic. 76 million? No, billion.

Million million. So it's relatively new because I believe my wife and I are the only people or the first people to start talking about it. And it's this basic concept. There are 76 and a half million consumers in this country who are either Christian or conservative or both. And they are statistically more likely to buy a product or service if they know the business they're dealing with matches their values. If that brand is associating with Christian or conservative values in some way. And it's a really untapped market. These people spend $5 trillion a year on everything from cats to cars to carpet to coaching. And most people don't know how to tap into them. And that's what we're trying to help people understand.

I love, I love the range there in the, what is it, alliteration, Cats to cars. So what do you think the biggest category? Is there a biggest category or is it saying these people exist, they're buying the same things that everyone is, but they're being overlooked just because of these factors?

Absolutely. They're just like they're your neighbors, they buy everything you buy. If just that their motivation to choose one particular business to do, to work with over another has a lot to do with values. And that's frankly not just true of this audience of conservatives and Christians. 62% of all US based consumers tell us that in the last year they've stopped buying from a brand or started buying from a brand over a values alignment or misalignment. So that tribalism that we're seeing in politics right now is moving over into consumer behavior. And consumers want to know, not only are you providing me good features, good benefits, but I also want to know that the way you're using my money aligns with my values and that you're doing good with it. You're not taking my money and doing something I object to with it.

I love this, I really do. Because I've been hearing people, I'd say over the last five or 10 years, I've noticed it more and more now. Please give me the insight because either I just got older and more mature and started paying attention to things, or the market really did change. Because 20, 25 years ago, I the only, I think Tom Shoes is the only one I can say, oh, this was like one of the first companies that they go, you buy from us, we'll give one away. Now I don't know if it was a Christian conservative or liberal atheist or whatever the case was, but I would have to think they were doing some good. So, yeah, well, maybe an independent.

This is, this is new in the sense that in the last decade or so a few things have happened that has really made this emerge as a key strategy for every business in our opinion. Part, part. Truly what's happening is that businesses started, instead of staying out of ideological issues, started jumping in and particularly large corporations, as the old Milton Friedman type attitude, which is our only responsibility is to our shareholders, switched over to now we have other sort of stakeholders and other people that we want to satisfy. So you have companies like BlackRock inventing ESG policies, even though arguably it didn't serve their customers well, or companies like Bud Light, you know, angering so many of their consumers, taking an activist position on transgender issues. And so that started to create, I think, this market. And it's trending again, not just with conservatives and Christians, but everyone. I mean, today, right now in the headlines are people who are selling their Tesla vehicles because they object to Elon Musk's political views. And so this is something happening. So for every business, I tell them, you might think to yourself, I don't want to talk about religion and politics. Just know your consumers are already asking. And so it's a trend you gotta pay attention to.

And the finances of it too.

Yeah, I mean, I would say it's from a financial standpoint for your business. It's an amazing way to think about lead generation is to think about how can I tap into a group of consumers in a way that nobody else is doing? And so the opportunity is to create a differentiation for your business in a really tough environment. Right. If you're in B2C or frankly B2B, sometimes it's really difficult in today's environment to differentiate from your competitors. Anybody you can list your product on Amazon and Amazon will rip you off and copy it later. And either they'll do it or the Chinese will get to you before that. So how do you differentiate? You can differentiate on values and convictions. And the powerful part of that, the same reason we say don't talk religion and politics, is the same reason why it's the most powerful thing to attach to with a consumer, because it's core to their identity. We switch our views on whole sorts of other issues quickly, but just statistics and show and survey show that people don't switch their political and religious values nearly as frequent, if at all or ever. Most of us are basically hold similar religious and political views as we held when we were kids and our parents shared with us. So aligning with somebody on the. On their convictions, particularly their political and faith convictions, is very powerful for a business. And you can see this in companies like, say, Chick Fil A, which would be probably the biggest brand that's done such a great job with this. You know, at $27 billion a year, it might be higher now 35. But they're eating McDonald's for lunch. And there are.

Because no one wants to eat at McDonald's for lunch.

Yeah, well, exactly. And it is in part because their chicken sandwich is better, arguably. But it also has to do with the fact that they've generated an exceptionally loyal customer who's very family values oriented, very faith oriented, and they will stick with Chick Fil A through thick and thin. Not just because they have a good chicken sandwich, but because they believe in the values that their company exemplifies. Hobby Lobby is another great example. I was just thinking seven and a half billion, right? I mean, they employ 35,000 people. And by the way, their approach to this market is very different. Chick Fil A doesn't advertise faith forward. Their advertisements are two cows on a billboard saying eat more chicken. Right. Whereas Hobby Lobby is actually a little more forward about it. They run ads with, for an Easter and Christmas with Jesus in the ad. So it's. They, they're really forward with it in their marketing. So there's also multiple strategies to tap into this Liberty spender audience. But they're big successful business. Then there's lesser known businesses like Patriot Mobile, which is taking on the biggest companies in the world, Verizon, Sprint, T Mobile and you know, whatever else at&t. And they're, they've built a probably $200 million wireless phone company by saying they're America's only conservative Christian wireless provider. You have EveryLife diapers, you've got Public Square, which is attempting to be a sort of Amazon for conservatives. Black Rifle Coffee would be another company that went public for $1.7 billion. And what's their innovation? I mean, there's a coffee shop at every corner. I mean, it's gotta be the most ubiquitous product in the country. How do you build a 1.7 billion billion dollar brand? And, and the answer is you build it by aligning with people and their convictions. And for Black Rifle Coffee, it was military and veteran support. Right. It's. And this is a powerful strategy. A lot of people completely look past that your business ought to be paying close attention to.

So it sounds like now people should lean into it and not away from it is what I'm hearing.

Yeah, people are scared to lean into faith and politics a little bit because they're afraid of marginalizing people. But there's 76 and a half million of these Liberty Spenders. So, you know, any. But any business that's listening right now can find a profitable audience within seven and a half, 76 and a half million people. Most of them don't need even a small fraction of those customers.

I was just about to say if, even if you had 1% of that.

Yeah, exactly. And I tell might be doing okay. Yeah, it's better to be something to somebody than everything to nobody. So it's better to have raving Fans, you know, 10,000 raving fans who believe in everything you do, then try to appeal to everybody and you, and you, you just aren't. You're not appealing to anyone in that respect.

So would you say that one business's biggest problem is they're trying to be all things to all people?

Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest and sort of counterintuitive thing I tell people is, you know, we're a marketing agency. Best way to look at us. And for 20, 30 years, the common thought in marketing is that everything's about eyeballs and attention. We gotta get attention on our thing. We gotta come up with a provocative ad or something. Something interesting, funny. And getting attention is increasingly easy these days. You can get in front of millions of people on social media, sometimes for almost no money at all these days. But trust is what is so difficult to build. So I think the biggest mistake that most of these businesses are making is they're going after eyeballs. And what they really should be going after is trust. People don't believe anything they see these days. You can get a lot of eyeballs in front of your thing. But right now, and particularly in the U.S. we're doubters. We don't believe the news. We don't believe our political candidates. We don't believe our institutions. And they certainly don't believe your business when they know you have something to promote. And so building trust is a much more important commodity. So the biggest thing is forget eyeballs and start focusing. How can I create trusting relationships with people? Because that's when they buy.

And that's on both sides of the aisle, too.

Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter. This strategy of appealing to convictions could work for a business who's better aligned. Not with Christians or conservatives, but maybe with people who are progressive or more left wing. It could work. I just don't know that audience well because I've worked for 20 years in Republican politics before all this. So I know that Christian and conservative audience intimately and have access that other people don't have, which is why we focus on that. But it really. It works for others. Patagonia is a good example of a business that wants to work with progressives and liberals and traditionally shuns conservatives and others.

Yeah. And I remember hearing long ago the marketing behind it is polarize your audience.

Sure. I mean, that's how you to some extent, you know, win friends is not only do, do your, do your customers know what they're for, but they also know what they're against.

Yeah. And like minded and you know, that's the whole. I think we were around it more with business or whatever. But what happened in school, what happened in college, what happened in the workplace? Like you're around people that are similar, that have the same values. I mean if we want to go have a burger or something and someone's only want salad, well that's cool. I mean come along and vice versa. But at the same time, if you go, hey, we go to a steakhouse every Friday, by the way, I'm available, you know, to discuss business and stuff at some point. They may or may not. You know, I think it's great. People can have all the groups and everything. And I love that you're promoting to lean into it because I, I used to think the same thing. Like I said, Tom Shoes, I don't know if they have any faith based affiliation, spiritual or whatever, but I go, good for them for giving back. And why do you think that's changed over the last 20 years? I am seeing more, more and more businesses put the charitable piece out front regardless of if there's any real re. I know some of them are doing it just to look good because they're, you know, it's not because they have a conviction. They're just going to. All right, we're not gonna, we don't wanna come off as horrible, but that's still a lot different than, you know, we're doing this as a PR piece versus no, this is who we are through and through.

Yeah. And I think I'm talking about a little bit more than just using, you know, giving to a charity through your business. That's something that makes good sense for everyone. I think most business owners get into it cause they're passionate about their business, but they also wanna change the world. So, you know, being involved in your favorite charitable cause is good. But I also think about, well, how can we align with a audience of consumers. In my case, Christians are conservatives because of those activities. So it might be a Christian or conservative charity, but it also could be embedded in how you treat your employees. You know, if we go back to Hobby Lobby and Chick Fil? A, both are famous for closing on Sundays, which sends a very clear signal to a Christian consumer about where your values are that you're willing to, to, you know, to, to set aside at 1/7 of your potential business to honor the Lord. Right. So there's a lot of two.

It's not because it's a campaign or because they're just trying to look good. It's because of who they are.

Yeah, yeah, it's who they are and you're. And that really gets at the core. Even with the Tom shoes examples. I think that's great. We're helping people overseas by giving away free shoes. But I think when you want to think about what we call conviction driven marketing, which is embedding your convictions in your marketing, you also want to pick things that send a clear message to your people about kind of where you stand in the spectrum of political and faith belief because that's what's going to create that attraction. It's not just a generic desire to make the world a better place, but it's an acknowledgement that you're aligning with a tribe very much.

So I got a two parter for you because I want to make sure everyone gets covered here. What can consumers do to make sure they're aligning with the liberty spenders more? If that's who they are?

Yeah. There are a number of available resources. Probably the biggest one right now is a company called Public Square and it's just publicsquare.com, i'm not affiliated with them, but they, they have 85,000 registered businesses where the owners have signed on to a belief, a set of beliefs like that they're going to make every effort to make as much of their product as possible in the usa. That they aren't engaged in any kind of racist or other DEI or woke policies with your money. They're not donating to political candidates or causes you don't agree with. So Public Square is a great place to go to try to find products. There's a couple of others. There's a, another organization called Mammoth Nation which is trying to do the same thing. There's also a great company made in the USA.com where you can go if you're, if you're looking for, if you're, particularly if you're a manufacturer looking to find components and other things made in the usa. So there's a number of great aggregators that, that can point you towards products that match your values.

Now can we put our books on there?

I don't see why not. I've not tried to put my book on Public Square. I probably should. I have my agency listed there as one of their businesses. But yeah, we should both list our books there.

Yeah, I did not hear of a lot of Those companies, the mammoth one, I didn't Public Square. I didn't. So thank you for sharing them. But I know you have your new book and it would be a good place.

Yeah, look at there, there it is. Looks good. And yeah, we tried to write a book so any business could read it and figure out how to do what we're recommending, how to lead with convictions in your marketing. We have a 5P process in there that every business could go through to figure out how they could thrive in this market. And there's a lot of great examples in there. But I also made it a quick read. Right. No Good entrepreneur has three hours several times a week to catch up on a big thick, meaty book. It's about 125 pages. If you got an hour and a half, two hour flight, you could probably get through it.

Smart, smart. I remember doing my first one and it was one of my shorter ones as well. And it was a lot of the feedback. Oh, I read this and then you know, like you said, in a flight or two parts in an afternoon or something like that.

Yeah, it's been great. You know, we, we've. I've always wanted to write a book. It's something that I've had on my sort of to do list, a bucket list of some sort. And I was very intimidated by the idea. I just had this mental picture of sitting in front of a computer with a, you know, little blinking cursor and not knowing what to put in. But I was able to get some good advice and help and it's been a really valuable tool for our business because, you know, consumers are always kind of wondering or potential customers of ours or clients are always wondering what they're getting into and they can sit and read this and they know exactly what we do. And I have people come to meetings saying, hey, I read this thing on page, you know, 95. And that's what made me want to call you because that's exactly what I need to be doing right now. So I love it. We're giving away a free copy. By the way, anybody who goes to libertyspenders.com expert, they can get a free copy courtesy of Mario.

Like that. So now that you're done with it, would you recommend publishing a book for any other business?

Yeah, I should have done it years earlier and it was just in my head that it was going to be an impossible task. You know, it's going to take me years and I'm, I just, I don't have enough focus or I don't know what I'm going to say. But when I got started and I got some good advice, some good help to help organize, actually wasn't as hard as I thought. I actually got it done in about 60, 75 days.

Oh, wow. Impressive.

And. Yeah. And within, you know, two, three weeks after, I'd already gotten my first person prospect who called me and said, hey, I read your book back, front to back. I gave it to all my senior staff and said, we gotta hire these people. And it was actually somebody who I had sent a book to, this person's dad who said, hey, you should read this. And then here we are. And so it immediately had a great return on investment.

That's the fun part is someone reads your book, they pass it along, or someone reads it, they buy another one for someone else. And it's like, where'd this come? We just got a lead yesterday. I'm honestly still trying to figure out if it was from, like, one of the five sources. And I'm like, I'm gonna figure it out. But I think it was a video someone shared.

Yeah, that was the most fun moment of writing the book, was the time. The first time we had somebody reach out to us that I had no clue how they found us, and they had read the book, and I thought, boom, right? This isn't just somebody who might have. Who might have bought from me anyway. It was somebody who would have never heard of me had they not seen this. And that was just really satisfying.

And that's where the fun of this comes, because I know with marketing, I could talk about utms and pixels and all this, and you'd know what I'm talking about. But the fun part is when some of it's so organic and it just starts going. It's like, how are you, like, unless you put air tags on every single book? I've actually been trying to brainstorm how we could GPS every book, but I'm like, this wasn't from an ad that clicked and they went through a funnel. It was you just given the book. And I'm like, well, cool. I want to help them either way. But also kind of like, this came from somewhere.

Like, yeah, where is it from?

So look forward to talking with them.

But the beauty is, you know, I saw this on page. Whatever that was. What was awesome. Like, they came quoting my own stuff.

You know, and you can use that for so much. You know, I tell people I think it's page 75 in mind. It's the book structure outline. Like, if you're writing it, you might have all this stuff, but it's like, how do you know what the front matter is? Back matter, preface, epilogue, like, what's the right order? I believe it's page 75 or 6. 74. 5 or 6. It might be all three of them. It starts and finishes and stuff like that. But that's the beauty of sharing the information. So I'm glad you're getting it out there in so many different ways. You're doing the podcast, you're doing the book, you know, and people overlook that, too, because they think the podcast is one way, the videos are another, and the book is a third. No, there's your message, and then there's the different mediums throughout all of it. And you'd be dumber than a doorknob or a rock or whatever to only be using one of them, especially after the message is refined as much as in a book.

Yeah, well, I'll tell you, they work together very well. And to your point, and I first, you know, somebody had been suggesting multiple times we ought to have a podcast. I kept kind of putting it off and not sure I wanted to do it. And I, you know, we finally agreed about a year ago, so we're coming up onto a year. We'll have almost 52 episodes here in the next.

Congratulations.

Yeah, thank you. By the time we end April, I think, and we. We decided to. To go ahead and give it a try. And I liked it at first, and then I didn't like it for a little while till we got kind of a system together. And now it's just such a valuable tool for, you know, establishing some authority in the market. Having to be on a split screen with experts like Mario is great for establishing authority, but also the podcast has been awesome for meeting people. And, you know, it's hard in this environment to get, you know, an hour with somebody, particularly a somebody you've always wanted to meet or. Or maybe find a way to do business with and. And offering to promote them on your podcast is a great way to build a relationship. And so that's been another unexpected thing. I didn't really think that when I started the podcast, but the kind of relationship building has been so powerful, and.

The time I'll throw in time leveraging, too, is one that I appreciate as much as I fly and do travel. You don't need to fly halfway around the world just to talk to someone for an hour.

Yeah, not at all.

I mean, you might be able to get 3, 4, 5, 6 done in a day. Who Knows.

Yeah, Well, I regularly do that. I kind of pack them together. We do. We do them on Wednesdays now. And I used to, you know, kind of spread them out during the week. And I found it was better to do them all on one day. And so we, we. I think tomorrow we do three episodes tomorrow.

Very cool. I want to come back to the second part. I was going to ask you. Well, I am going to ask you, and I'm not. I was gonna. I am going to ask you the second part. So I asked about the consumer side. You know, how can consumers find and take advantage of this most. But let's go to the business side. How can businesses lean into this more? Is it with their marketing? Is it searching it out? Is it saying tomorrow, you know, no, later today? Because someone, whenever someone's listening to this, they could go, you know what? Today's the day. And I'm going to change everything around to say, here's, you know, take a very firm stand in it. Do you advise doing that? Do you advise getting a group of people together and say, hey, let's throw each other business and push this out that way? What's your suggestion?

Well, so as a business owner, of course, we tried to write our book in a way that you could read it. We'd love for you to call us. We can help you. But even if you don't, you can get a lot from the book. You know, we. For a business owner, the first thing I tell them is just the first thing they got to do is become comfortable with the idea that they can talk about faith and politics, religion and politics publicly from their business and that it's perfectly natural. And a lot of people are doing that now. Outside of that, you know, what we try to teach people to do is we know there's an audience out there who really wants to do business with you, no matter what you're in and really are keen on, okay, I want to do business with a conservative business owner or a conservative business. So they're out looking. You'd be surprised simply by being willing to acknowledge some of these. Some of your faith and value statements on your website, for example, how much that might attract you. But we. What we'll do and what we do in the book is we take people through a 5P process. We talk to them about the people that they need to target, what they look like, what they care about. We then talk to them about their positioning because there's a lot of different ways to approach this market. We gave this example of chick fil A and Hobby Lobby. Before I would call Hobby Lobby an ideological approach. You cannot miss. You can't walk into a Hobby Lobby without knowing they're a Christian company. I mean it's just straight up all, there's a bunch of Christian books right at the counter. It's in their marketing. They have a very ideological approach. It's even sometimes a little partisan. Then you have what we call issue an issue approach where you pick an issue that this audience cares about. And that's the Black Rifle Coffee example. Black Rifle Coffee never said anything specific about their politics. They don't endorse candidates. They're not saying Rah Rah Trump or Rah Rah Harris. They say, look, we care about the military, we care about veterans. Black rifle coffee, you know, would sort of tend to lead you to some beliefs they might have about gun ownership. But it's very just issue oriented in theory. Those issues are not terribly controversial. It doesn't matter whether you're right, left or center, you probably support veterans. But it sent a very clear message. And their marketing is very like let's blow some stuff up in a, in an app. Pretty cool. And then we have companies are just straight up market fit. There are some products, you don't need to tell anybody what your ideology is. They get it when you start. And so we take people. You know, if you read the book, you'll learn about people, how to position yourself properly and then how to tell a good passionate story about it. This audience of liberty spenders, they care about authenticity. They're going to pick up on fake right away. So if you're saying we're a company driven by Krishna conservative values and that's not true, and that's not real, they're going to pick up on it. They also receive all the same attention getting marketing efforts that we were talking about earlier. So to earn their trust, you've got to be able to tell your story. We call it a passionate story, something, you got to tell it the right way. And then we take people through proof. We're a big believer in testing. We like to test what we put out there. So many businesses spend tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars on marketing. They've never tested enough. It works until they get the result or not.

It's like that old adage, 50% of the market advertising is working. I just don't know which 50%.

Exactly, exactly, exactly. We have a really cool process. We do, you know, Internet based panels where people can watch your ads and rate them in real time. And then finally we talk about product rollout. What's wonderful about this market is that there's all sorts of Christian media, there's all sorts of conservative media, there's conservative influencers and Christian influencers, there's email lists, there's Facebook groups, there's all sorts of conventions and other gatherings that make this market such a great one to talk to. And knowing how to do that, knowing where to go, who to talk to, is such a big part of the fifth P, the product rollout, how to do that. Right. So I don't know if that was a perfect answer to your question, but that's how we outline it in our book.

It was, because I was going to ask about the five Ps either way, so everyone knew what they were. And you just rolled right into it. And it's kind of surreal. I gotta be honest, I'm loving this because a lot of this stuff, I'm like, oh, should ask this. You're just going into it and there's so many people that I've had people come to me going, like, they'll pull me aside and go. Because I'm pretty vocal about. I mean, it's in my book too. And they're like, do you find it's helped you in business talking about bump? Like, just pick something. And I look at them kind of like. I'm not talking about it as, like a tactic to drive business. I'm telling you what it is as the author, as the speaker, as here's who I am. If you like it, great. If you don't, Merry Christmas. Yeah, I don't really care. It's in there. There's so many other strategies. If this was strictly a campaign or, you know, we have to do this, like, if you want to do something to see if it works better, do a split test on ads versus a direct mail piece like that. And I go, I'm not doing it for that reason. But, yeah, I'm getting more. So the other thing is the quality of the people. Do you really want 10,000? What? Okay. You got 10,000 eyeballs there. You got all these leads, you got all these customers, and you hate 92% of them. That sounds like a frigging headache. Yeah, I'd rather take the top 4% and go, we're gonna do great stuff with you. Thanks for being awesome. And then surprise them with some extra stuff we don't tell them about.

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you one of the most interesting things I found. As we wrote the book, we interviewed a Number of companies that market this way with convictions. Some people they call, they're part of the patriot or parallel economy. And almost without a doubt the retention rates were significantly higher for these businesses than their competitors in the same space. And so what you're talking about is it may not be about this is the latest marketing shtick. It's that relationship of trust that you're building with your customer through them understanding who you are as a person and as a business. They align with you and these customers tend to be more loyal. They tend to be, to give out more referrals because they believe not just that, hey, this guy gave me a great, you know, widget, but he also, he and I also aligned in these other areas and I know he's doing good in the world so I'm going to, I'm going to be an advocate for him. And that's, it's about this sort of, you know, we're, we're aligning with our tribe of people and that's going to be very powerful for retention, not just for sales.

Yeah, so, so, so much so because I think a lot of people have lost their way or there are no, I'm going to change that. I am, I think a lot of, I think almost everyone knows exactly where they stand. I would say. And unfortunately, myself included, a lot of people are afraid to say it. Not currently. Like I'm thinking a few years back or whatever. It's it, I never really lost my way. It was more, there's times I've been more vocal and less vocal and it has to do with everything we're talking about. And I think some people, because I'm more vocal than most and, or some, I should say there's still some people that inspire me like you. You're very, it was very clear. But I'll tell you what, like I said at the beginning, that's why I looked through and talked with the team and I go, absolutely.

Yeah.

It was zero hesitation. There was a few things that triggered like I need him on I want to give you a bigger platform too. It was like a no brainer. That's what we look for.

Let, and let me tell you something, this is what I, this is the message I want for businesses. If I had said, hey, I got this new marketing stick, I'd have been one of thousands of marketing people that would have come across your desk. Right. If you, if you, if any of you steps out your front door, grabs a stone and throws it in any direction, you're going to hit somebody who Purports to be a marketer.

Yeah. If we get one more marketing person.

Yeah. Well. And the thing is, it's so hard to differentiate. And why not differentiate on values?

I like it. I love it, actually.

It's powerful as a strategy and it's a tool. We learn from politics. We didn't get into this much, but for 20 years, our primary business has been electing politicians all over the country. We've also done some cool international stuff, but for another day. And what you learn in doing political campaigns is it's very counterintuitive. But most people think politicians win by getting, like, for example, Donald Trump wins by getting people who voted for Obama in 2012 to turn around and vote for Trump in 2016. It's not really that. It's Trump energizes a totally different group of people who never showed up before to show up in much bigger numbers. And so the winning presidential campaigns, winning national campaigns is about turnout. It's about inspiring people. It's about getting your base enthused. And I feel like the same thing is with consumers. You're sitting here fighting a battle, trying to win on attention. Yeah, I'm 10% better. When in reality it's. There are people who align with you. Get them to the polls, they're just staying quiet. Yeah. Run up to score with these folks. That's how. That's why Donald Trump, love him, not love him, whatever, is such a powerful figure in American politics. His audience and his base feels like he fights for them every day. He's taken all sorts of hits for them. He's been prosecuted unreasonably. Whatever that belief system is, he has run up the score with those people. They would walk over cut glass for Donald Trump. That's what he's so good at as a politician. There's a lesson for your business to learn. There is. He has got 30, 38, 40% of the country that are his raving fans, and they will never leave him for any reason. Your business can be the same way. You can have a group of people who are your raving fans who are going to stick with you through thick or thin, who invite their friends to join you. If you'll just learn to run up the score with that sort of base consumer and not worry about the rest of these people over here. You might alienate along the way.

I appreciate everything you're saying. I wish we had more time. And that's a great point, because there's only one set of customers and it's, you know, someone's going to influence them either way. Why can't it be you? Yeah, I think that's the strongest part of marketing and influence and why I love doing the publishing with people because it gives them the voice versus some 140 characters or something to just this is your one shot that's going to disappear in 62.8 seconds. Like if you got someone that's that's fickle, let them go to the competition. Like find the person who you know. We have someone that's been with us since 2009. I'm thinking about why is that?

Yeah.

Would you rather have. I mean, I know what I like, so I wish we had more time. I do have a couple of quick questions for you though. One, what would you say is the fastest path to the cash?

Fastest path to the cash? Trust. Trust, Trust and more trust. Love it. Absolutely.

Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

The biggest problem I see them making is that they are afraid or unwilling to differentiate themselves. They're fighting in a rigged war where they're mono and mono equal. With all their competition, they've not found a way to create a market that only they represent. And that's the problem we're looking to solve.

Number three, what's the best way to maximize lifetime value?

I go balsa differentiation and trust. I combine those together. People trust you because they are aligned with you on their convictions. So they're going to stick with you through thick and thin and they understand how you're different from your competitors.

I love it, everything you're sharing. Thank you for sharing it. Where would you like people to learn more?

Well, check us out at www.libertyspenders.com and go to libertyspenders.com expert. You can also get, you can get a PDF version of our book and go while you can. I don't know how long we're going to keep that free version up. We've been live for with our book for a few months now and I think we might go to just paid. So I'm just warning people if you're hearing this, jump on there right away.

Well, thank you for making that available and thank you for everything you've shared.

You're welcome. It's been wonderful to be on with you. Mario.

The pleasure has been mine. I really wish we had more time. There's so much more I could ask. But thank you for your time, Kurt.

Thank you.

All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you on the next one. Have a great day and how applicable I've only said it 500 plus times, but God bless. You're already the expert, but have you.

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