How To EXPLODE Your HSA (4 Easy Hacks)

Hey, welcome everybody to a conversation about the health Savings account. Now, my name is Mark Kohler. I'm a CPA attorney, best selling author. Love to help my clients around the country. Save taxes, build wealth. I'm about you living your American dream. And health care expenses have been escalating for years. So many people don't even know how to write off their medical expenses. It's a scary thing. Do you know that the number one cause for bankruptcy in America are medical expenses? We know it's not a broken system, but it's a difficult system. We've got incredible health care providers out there, incredible business owners buying health insurance for their employees and themselves, but just somehow there's no connection. Like how do we take a tax deduction for these incredible medical benefits we can have in this country? But the increase in cost, it can be unbearable. So today we're going to be talking about the health Savings account people. This is one of the best kept secrets, regrettably in tax planning for you tax advisors out there, this is a topic you've got to be covering with your clients. You may say to yourself, well, I'm not a health insurance gal or guy. I don't sell health insurance. Doesn't matter. This is an item on the tax return that is missed all the time. It is on the front page of the 1040, arguably, you know, with changes in the forms, but this is an above the line deduction, the health savings account. And so we need to be talking about this with our clients. I want to tell you the top seven, eight benefits of the health savings account. We're going to break it down. I want you to pose your questions. I want to call crap. If you think that I'm full of it. I want you to bring, bring it. This is about you. I want to help you today. It's going to be awesome. Now there's this cool part of this that I just took advantage of myself yesterday. I'm kind of under the weather. If I cough, it doesn't sound good, but I'm on the back end. I'm not contagious. My team here, I'm in my office here in Phoenix, Arizona, got the whiteboard, we're ready to go. And so yesterday, right here at my desk, I had a mobile iv. Now for those of, those of you that have not had an IV treatment, they're pretty powerful. It's like you're getting supercharged with vitamins and hydration to overcome an illness or to prevent an illness. It is a tax deduction to get an IV treatment. And you can take that money out of your health savings account. Put it in your health savings account. Take it right out. Some of you are like, well, I don't have money in a health savings account. That's all right. Let's open up a health savings account, drop the money in, then reimburse yourself for the treatment you just did last week. Whatever the case, we're going to talk about the procedures here, but I literally had an IV right here at my desk yesterday, and I took a tax deduction for it. I could pull it right out of my health savings account today. Now I'm feeling better, you know, I'm already feeling a little more bouncing my step because I got some, you know, supercharged vitamins and hydration. And so I knocked on the door, the wall here, and I said, hey, Max, why don't you come on my live tomorrow and get an IV treatment? I'll pay for it and you can get a tax write off. Well, since I'm paying for it, I'm going to get the tax write off because it's a business write off at this point. But you could have got it. So right here I want to introduce Max Merritt, one of my tax lawyers here that's literally just next door to me in our office here in Phoenix. Dude, you are juiced up.

I'm feeling it. I feel good. I saw the life flight helicopter in the shadow over there in the building.

Oh, my gosh. Are you peeking?

The needle makes me a little nervous.

You're a little nervous here. Ok.

But we're so far I'm feeling angry.

All right, so for some of you that might be a little queasy around needles, we are not showing the needle. We wrap this up. But he's getting a real drip right here. I don't know what's in there, but are you already feeling it?

I'm feeling it. I feel good.

Okay. Now, the reason why Max is going to get a write off today on his treatment is because it's preventative.

True.

See?

Yeah, he's sick in the office. We have other sick people that come in here. So it's going to be good. It's going to keep me from getting sick. Plus, I didn't watch the needle go in either. So for any of you that are a little freaked out by it, I closed my eyes as well.

So. Oh, my gosh. Well, Max and I are both tax lawyers helping clients again around the country, and we want you to get a tax write off for your medical expenses. We're going to talk more about which medical expenses qualify. But this iv, you're great.

I'm going to probably have her come in once a week. I asked Meredith how often she could come in. She said every day if I wanted.

Yeah, just don't make sure he has my credit card.

That was the whole.

Whoa.

I said, just charge the card on file. She said, great, so we're good.

I'm gonna cough on you just for that. All right, well, you're getting the buyer's cocktail, I think, right?

I think so, yeah.

See, that's preventative, so that's gonna qualify. All right, so let's get into it. I want you guys to know the benefits. I might even throw them up here on the whiteboard as we go. So this is called the Health Savings Account hsa. Now, the first thing you need to know about it, and I'm gonna probably fill up a couple whiteboards here. The first thing you need is to know this is not the flexible spending account. Do you want to explain what that is? So.

Well, the flexible spending account is. There's some benefits, I guess, in a lot of ways, but the flexible spending account is one that you. If you don't use it, you lose it. And that's a problem for a lot of people, especially if you're using HSA and you got a high deductible plan, you may not need to use all that money in there. So the FSA is a use it or lose it where the HSA is going to allow us to roll it over and keep growing that account.

Yeah, many of you might have a flexible spending account at work. It's kind of part of a cafeteria plan. So they withhold a little bit from your check, you put in some money, and then by the end of the year, you turn in your receipts tax free, you get a write off, or per se, you're not getting taxed on your W2. We do not like the FSA for the small business owner. So you, for your tax advisors out there, you're not going to recommend an fsa, you know, for a client with an S Corp. An FSA is not going to work for them in an S Corp. So the fsa, it's kind of out of the box. Now, the other thing I want to point out is it's not an hra. This is a reimbursement type procedure, and small business owners can set up an HRA plan. There's different types of QSR HRAs and all that. We're not going to go there today. I've got podcasts on that. It's in my book. Oh, here's a copy of my book right here. The Tax and Legal Playbook. Get one on Amazon right now. Five star ratings are good. You use it every day.

Every day.

Every day. All right, so there's a whole chapter on the HSA HRAs, but what you did say is the HSA is an account. Can I invest that account? Tell people what you can do with this account.

Yeah, well, we have not as much time to probably go into all the details of what you can invest in, but you can take your HSA and you can invest in real estate, you can invest in cryptocurrency, you could do lending with it. This account is awesome. Now that's a self directing route with your hsa. But the amount of things you can invest in are really endless.

Truthfully, it's amazing. So you can take that health savings account and turn around and reimburse yourself for an iv. Take a write off. Well, see, here's the cool part. The account grows, but you get a deduction this year to put the money in. So you put the money into the account, you can pull it right back out and reimburse yourself for expenses you've already paid. We'll talk about what qualifies here in a moment in more detail. But the account grows and you get a tax deduction when you put the money in. You could pull it out tax free for medical or you can let it ride. Little kind of a Vegas craps play. But on that note, you get a deduction this year. What are the numbers? Max?

The deduction is 4150 for single and well, that's the contribution.

Yeah, that's just to put the money in.

Right. Then 8300 for a family.

So 4150 if you're single or if you're married, family or head of household. It's 8300. Yep, 8300. It's a little ugly there. 83. Okay. All right. See if I can find a better pin here. There we go. We'll go purple.

It is red though.

So we do it. Is red making you queasy?

No go Utes.

I didn't know with, you know that IV. If the color of red is going to make you pass out, you're okay. All right, well, hopefully some of you there are having fun. We're on YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. Please be posting your questions down below. I see questions already coming in. We're going to field those in Just a moment. So here's the deal. You can open an HSA account, put in 4150, if you're single, 8300. Take a tax deduction off the top of your tax return, turn around and take it right back out. This is almost like laundering money. Put it in, take it out for any medical expense. It's tax free and you get a tax write off to put that money in. Or you can let it grow. Now let's talk about medical expenses and Publication 502. What's your take on that? So everybody.

Yeah, so the medical expenses are really quite broad actually. Hence sitting here, getting an IV and being able to have that be an expense. But also we can. Any prescriptions that you're going to get, any treatment that you're needing from a doctor or any sort of medical expense there.

Over the counter drugs, over the counter

drugs are an expense that you can take. Really, Any medical expense that you can justify as preventative or even illness that you've got is going to be a write off. You're going to be able to take this.

We're talking chiropractic eyes, dental copays, deductible. So you still have health insurance. We're going to come to that in a moment. You still have health insurance, but anything your health insurance doesn't cover, even massages if your doctor says you need it for your back or you. So a massage envy, kind of a national chain. If you've got back problems, the massage envy monthly due is a write off.

Right.

But again, you may say I'm not going to take the right, I'm going to put the money in, take the write off, but I'm not going to reimburse myself. I'm going to let it go. I might be having surgery in the future, I might want to use it in the future as I get older or I'm going to have a baby, we're going to have a pregnancy in the family. So we want to save that money for a big medical expense coming in the future.

Right.

All right.

I have clients that come in that are younger that'll say, well, I don't really need to worry about this because I don't want to lock my money into this account when I don't really have any medical expenses. The argument to that is one, we never know the future. But two, you need that tax deduction now, so take it that account. It's not an FSA where you use it or lose it. So let it roll over, invest it, use that money. Like you would a Roth ira, let it grow tax free. Because someday I can almost promise everyone's going to have a reason to pull out on medical.

Yeah. The number one withdrawal from retirement accounts is for medical expenses. So this is equivalent to just using a good Roth IRA, a traditional IRA, 401k, all that. All right, so let's. I want to hit these benefits. So one of all is an account that grows tax free. Okay. Put in black, they're tax free. And then you get a tax deduction to put in the money. It's medical expenses. Pull out tax free. What happens if you don't use it for medical? What's the play on the long on the back end?

Yeah. So if you don't use it for medical and eventually you're like, yeah, I need to pull this money out for something. You. It's like an, it turns into like an IRA where you're going to pay the tax when you take it out. But still the growth on it was great. You were able to save yourself for an emergency situation, but the fallback is really not that big of a deal, I don't think.

Yeah, and what I like about that too, there's no phase out.

Right.

See, if you're trying to put money in a traditional IRA and you make too much money, you don't get a write off with this. You get a write off no matter what. Now, how do you qualify? You have to have a high deductible health care plan. Now, there's also certain things in the plan that need to occur, like you

need

the regular doctor visits and copays and there's kind of parameters. And so when you go to shop for your health insurance, you need to make sure it's an HSA qualifying plan. You kind of want to look for that check mark.

Right. And as you and so many healthcare plans now are recognizing the strategy as being so awesome that you really want to make sure that. Just ask your healthcare provider, is this an HSA qualifying plan? Because I have had clients that go off of, well, I meet the deductible by its 1600 or whatever that number may be or used to, people used to think that it was, but that plan was not an HSA qualifying plan. So just make sure that you just ask your medical provider, does this qualify? And they're going to say yes or no. But like Mark said, a lot of those plans, whether you're looking on the marketplace or whatever, have the check mark that say hsa.

Now, we may be covering, we're trying to cover everything but if your question repeats anything we're asking or talking about, it's fine. I'll just say this. You don't have to be a small business owner. You could go to your employer right now and go, I don't even use my freaking health insurance. I want a HSA plan, okay? Open enrollments in October and then you change over so you can ask your employer to change you to a high deductible plan. Then you can open your HSA anywhere you want. You can go to directed ira.com right now and open up an HSA. I've invested my HSA in a crypto mine. I've invested it in cows. I bought some cows for one year. It was kind of a Yellowstone, Dutton Kohler thing. And then I've also got an HSA in rental property. So you can take your HSA and invest in anything you want. Grow it, build it, build it, build it. Then pull it out when you need it. So very, very powerful. Well, I think we've almost covered everything. Oh, does it have to be with my employer? Is it portable?

Yeah, it's portable. You can go set this up like you said. You could go to directed ira.com, set up your HSA there other accounts you can if you're wanting to self direct it. I think it's positive to be a custodian like directed Ira just because it helps manage that account. Make sure you're staying within the rules of the state self directing side. But it's easy and you should port. You should move it if you want to.

Okay, now before we go to questions, I think we need the nurse in here and I need some Lorna Doone cookies. Can we get some? Because I mean, if you're doing an iv, you got to have a Lorna Dune cookie.

I agree.

You're looking a little peek at you. Are you gonna faint?

I don't think so.

Look at the drip still going. Okay.

Oh, yeah.

All right. It's kind of yellow too. It's got like a lot of vitamins in there.

She did say a lot of vitamins. She said I'd feel great after this.

You're feeling a little pick me up?

Yeah, I feel fantastic.

Do you think we're okay? Is our patient all right? Everything looks good. Okay. All right. Do we have any Lorna Dunes? We don't have any cookies. No cookies? Oh, bummer. Let's see. Molly should dig up some Lorna Dunes. Okay. All right. Well, if you've ever donated blood, you get a cookie at the end. I might find You a cookie here. Okay, I'm gonna need a cookie. All right, well everybody, let's hit the questions. I'm so grateful to be here with all of you. And this is about you. Let's save you some money. Let's do it. All right, what's our first question?

Okay, our first question is, can you talk about health insurance for sole proprietorships?

Okay, well, I'll take my first take at it, then you take yours. So if you're a small business owner, let's say you've got a side hustle. 50 million plus Americans now get a 1099 for Uber a doordash. Turo, if you're a small, if you have a 1099, you're a small business owner. You just didn't know it. So that's going to go on a schedule C as in Charlie, you're a sole proprietorship if you buy your own health insurance and you go out on the exchange. Some states have their own exchange. You can go to healthcare.gov in most states and get your health insurance. Your health insurance is 100% deductible, so it's going to be on your 1040 tax return. You get to write off your health insurance. Where the HSA comes in is you choose a high deductible plan. Now you have the HSA and you can contribute to the HSA and unlock all those benefits or if you're not self employed, go into your employer and go, I want an HSA plan and do the same damn thing. I don't know how anything you'd say to the small business owner. I kind of went over the surface.

Yeah, well, I don't, I don't know that there's really like you pointed out a difference whether you're employed or a sole proprietorship. As far as the HSA qualifying plan and the rules around it, what you can use it for as a tax write off, can I invest it? It's more so looking, I think rather than not being a small business owner or not. Is what's my medical life like? Is this a plan that can actually help me? Do I need the high premiums or do I not, Can I take advantage of it? Either way, whether you're a sole proprietorship or you're an employee somewhere, you can take advantage of the HSA and have the benefits from it.

Yeah. One thought too, I would say is that if you have a lot of medical expenses, let's say you're pretty unhealthy. And I've had those years, you know where we have a lot of medical going on in the family. You may opt out of the health savings account type plan. Keep your hsa, you can keep building and growing it, but I'm going to go to a lower deductible plan that year. Maybe a ppo, hmo, really stick it to the insurance company, get all my surgeries done and then next year go back to the HSA qualifying plan. You can do that back and forth. All right, next question.

I don't have a high deductible plan for my. I don't have a high deductible plan for my work, but I do have a pretty good insurance plan. Can I still get an hsa maybe for my wife and kids, even though they're also covered on my plan.

Do you want to be the bad guy?

I don't like being the bad guy.

But.

But unfortunately no. That plan, if it's qualified, if it's under your, if it's for your family, if that plan does not qualify for an hsa, you're not going to be able to get one for your wife and kids.

Yeah. Now here's some strategies. If. And so, yeah, the answer is no the way you phrased it. But let's say you're. You and the kids have some medical things. So you keep your insurance for you and the kids. Let your wife opt out so she can go get her own plan. Price it out on healthcare.gov she might be totally healthy. She doesn't go to the doctor for anything. You're done having kids. So she goes and gets a high deductible plan. She can open up an HSA and get a qualifying plan. You have a 1099 in the family. You've got a little small business going on. You can write off her health insurance 100% and go get an HSA so she could get one. And then you just stay on the family plan. And we've seen kind of a hybrid approach that could work.

Yeah. Maybe keep your kids on the plan with you and let your wife get off of it. Not a bad strategy.

Not a bad strategy. Next question.

This one's from Adrian. Says I have a company sponsored hsa. How would I get about setting up self directed if I already have it set up with my employer?

Okay, you want to go first on this one?

Yeah. So a company sponsored HSA plan, he would still be able. The healthcare plan would still be under him as an individual.

Okay, so is this a woman or man? What did you say? It's Adrienne. Woman. A woman has A sponsored plan. Okay, so she's got health insurance and an HSA at work, Right? So maybe works throwing in a few bucks into her hsa.

I'd have to maybe read the plan to see if there's an issue with it, but I would not see any reason why she couldn't go set up an account. Say it directed Ira.

Oh, she can have both, right? Absolutely. There's nothing to look up.

Move some of the funds over there. Now if they're giving some sort of match or something there, they may have to go into their account first and then over. But I can't. I would be confused if there was any hold up.

No, I don't see any problem here. I think what Adrian's asking is, I got a plan at work. I got an hsa. Can I self direct? Yes. So let's say you're single and you can do 4150 this year. So let's say your employer's putting in a thousand bucks. Leave that alone. Leave that HSA is alone. Use that thousand dollars for your medical when you want. They're probably going to get you a 2 or 3% return on it. It's not going to be great. So pull that out for medical as you need it. Then go open up a second HSA. Because you can have two. You got two accounts, but you can only put away 4,150 in whole. So if the employer puts away a grand, you can put 3150 in your self directed HSA. Go buy some bitcoin, sit on it, maybe get a little bump. I go with Solana. I mean, I don't know. I think Solana is going to get a better run than bitcoin.

I would agree, but I think I have so many clients investing in bitcoin pretty heavily right now.

You're pretty stoked. Yeah, I'm pretty stoked at directed ira. We have an hsa. Crypto hsa. I should say it that way. A crypto hsa. So you could open up a crypto HSA tomorrow, literally right now, after this call and go drop in whatever again. Your 4150 is your limit. So find out how much was going in your work HSA that your employer might be putting away for you. The difference could go into your crypto HSA. You're off to the races.

100%.

Love it. Okay, next question.

Next one is from Ron. Says I have an HSA through the company I work for through Fidelity. Would I have to withdraw in order to invest into crypto or would. Or what is the process for doing this?

Well, same answer we just gave in a sense, right?

There's really two options of self directing with crypto, in my opinion. The first one is the HSA crypto account. You could also go set up what's called an LLC under your HSA or that's owned by your hsa. And I also had a client just recently set up an HSA and, and Roth IRA create an LLC that's owned by both of them. Those accounts got as much money as you can in those contributions and it was sweet. So you could set up an LLC that then buys crypto or you could do the HSA crypto account or IRA crypto account.

Now, what's at Fidelity stays at Fidelity.

Right?

You probably. You should be able to roll that out, but it's going to be a pain in the butt. I would just. Again, whatever your employer is throwing into your Fidelity hsa, just use that for medical or just leave it alone until you want to roll it out and fight that battle. But the difference, up to 4,150 or 8,300, go self direct. That's the separate HSA. You can have both. So leave the Fidelity in one loan and then self direct the other. Next question, next question.

Do you recommend HSA health plan for family with lots of high insurance use?

Well. Well, maybe not. This is what I just said a moment ago. If you've got a lot of medical expenses, you're going in the insurance company a lot. Stay away from a high deductible plan and the HSA until maybe things settle down and then switch over to a high deductible plan. I don't know. That's probably a little more common. Now. If you have a small business and you're making good money, you might go with an HRA and an HSA combo and go to a high deductible plan. Because it depends. If you're a high income earner, I might modify my answer. But if you're not, stick it to the insurance company.

Yeah, I would agree.

Okay, next question. I'll let you field the next one. I don't want.

No, I love that answer.

Okay. You're doing okay.

Feel incredible. This is great.

All juiced up, man.

I know.

Is IUL a good retirement vehicle for a 30 year old?

I just threw that to you. I'm taking that.

Yeah, you got it.

All right. IUL is a universal life policy index. Universal life. So you're going down the health insurance. Sorry, the life insurance question. Outside of the scope of today. But I will tell you, out of the gate, life insurance can be a good investment strategy after. Now, this is my opinion, you're already doing all the other basics. I want to see you funding your Roth ira, maybe you're buying a little rental property, you're out of debt, you've got your business funded, you're doing pretty well. Life insurance to me is a higher level strategy once you've checked all the other boxes. Now I've got several life insurance agents that are pissed and probably lighten me up in chat. That's fine, I'll take it. I bought Iul and Vul and if I can't maintain the premiums, which at one point I couldn't, during the building of my business, I lost the policy. So I'm very hesitant to go start a life insurance policy as an investment strategy unless I've got everything else under control. And I can with confidence know that I'm going to be able to provide for those premiums in perpetuity because if I don't, that policy is going to go and you know it, you agents. And so I don't want my clients that are in a volatile business phase where they're scaling. They can't maintain that life insurance policy. That's probably not the time to do it. So if you're 30, I don't care if you're 30 or 50, IUL can be great if you've got the financial stability to maintain it.

I would agree. And I would say most 30 year olds are in the phase of building their business, building their life, building their wealth. That it would probably not be my top strategy.

Yeah. Not saying it's not. I'm not saying it's a bad strategy. It depends on your financial wherewithal. It's just not the first one out of the gate.

I would agree.

Yeah. Next question.

At what age does someone with a pllc, that is an S corp, have a benefit of setting up a cash balance plan if the income is less than 800,000 a year?

Do you want to rephrase that?

And I didn't hear HSA in this.

Yeah. Do you want to do we. Can we have an hsa? I'm not opposed to these questions, but they're not related to the topic. Can we do an HSA question? Okay, I've just got buzzed one here to me. All right. Okay, we just filled this one. All right, this one came through. I think X on Twitter X. And that is what if I don't use a withdrawal for Medical expense. What's the, is that a problem? It can be until you're age 59 and a half. You can pull out anything out of an HSA for medical expenses, no problem, no question asked. But if you pull it out for a non medical expense, then you have to pay a 10% penalty and tax. Not the end of the world. I mean if you really needed to go dip into it. But once you turn 59 and a half, it's just like an IRA, right? So you can just pull it out and pay tax. Now remember, medical expenses. It is a broad definition. You go to Publication 502. Just go Google Publication 502, it'll tell you every medical expense that you can pull out of an hsa. It's a long list. It's really good. Should I go back to Twitter? Any other questions? Okay, all right, let me see here what we have. Okay. All right. Question was, did you say I could buy real estate and my hsa? Could you explain that more?

Yeah. So this goes to that self directing idea with the idea of using say directed ira.com you can go to them and set up this HSA account. When you set up this account, move funds in there. Now we have a custodian that allows us, we can go buy real estate or invest in real estate. The idea of real estate in your HSA account, same concept as cryptocurrency. I can leverage that and it grows tax free. So I could go, maybe I can't purchase an entire house. But now we go into the loan side of this and go into that much deeper conversation. But you really can invest in real estate, crypto lending, so many, so many different assets that you can do.

Okay, next question here is, I've heard I can't have an HSA. I'm over age 65. All right, so there's some good and bad there. I'll take that one. Once you actually there's kind of a little benefit and then a problem. Once you turn 55, you're allowed to put more into your HSA. There's an extra thousand dollar catch up. That's a write off. So between age 55 and 65, if you're married doing a joint plan, you can each put in a thousand. So you can put that extra money in your plan when you're up until age 65. But once you turn 65 and you're eligible for Medicare, you cannot put new contributions in. Now it doesn't mean you have to get rid of your hsa. You can keep building that account and Growing it and investing it. You just can't put new money in as if you were passing go on Monopoly. So you're gonna have to just let that money ride. And at age 65, no new contributions.

Right. So essentially, if you're on Medicare, you're not. You can't make contributions to the hsa.

All right, well, any other final questions? Do we have?

We do have one, yeah. Is hs, is an HSA asset protected in a lawsuit? Is it state dependent?

An HSA is treated like an IRA in a lawsuit. Now, we just did a podcast on this on our Main street business podcast this week. Actually, we did it on the directed IRA podcast. So it won't come out for a couple more days, but those links will be down below. Make sure you check out our podcast and subscribe. So the question is really, is an IRA 401k HSA asset protected? And the answer is, yes, they are very, very well protected. For example, if I'm texting and driving and get in a car accident, it's very hard for a creditor to get at my 401k IRA or HSA. And an HSA is treated just like an IRA. It is state dependent. About 40 out of the 50 states are going to treat it much like a 401k. You can't touch it. Some states have a dollar limit of about a million dollars. And a few states, like California, of course, say that it's dependent on your. What your needs are, but very strongly protected. I've never seen a client have to sacrifice an HSA in any sort of lawsuit. Now, the IRS can get at them if you're not paying your taxes or if you get divorced, you're going to, it's going to have to be split or negotiated in a way where both spouses, spouses are happy at the end of the day. Any other final questions? Oh, got another one.

What's the maximum you can put into an HSA every year?

Okay, again, I'll let you answer that.

Let me go right here. My vision is much clearer with this idea. Yeah, it's locked in.

40.

40, right. So 4150 if you're single, and then 8300 if you're a family plan.

Yeah. Now, what's cool is you have until April 15th to put that money in. So get your new insurance plan in place right away. You can put that money in up until April 15th and reimburse yourself for any expense you're having right now. It's. It's so cool. Or let the money ride Next year it'll probably be adjusted again. We'll probably see it go up by another hundred bucks or 200 bucks every year it's adjusted for inflation. So. All right, one last question, one last question.

Back to real estate in the hsa. Would you lose the benefit of depreciation?

Well, yes. And I should say no because we've got udfi. Maybe if there's debt. Let me say this. If I'm going to go buy rental property, I'll give my tech and then you can. Some people are like, well, I don't want to buy real estate in my IRA or HSA because I don't get depreciation. Yeah, and when you sell it, you don't pay tax either. So yeah, don't stress about losing depreciation. Enjoy the ride. No tax on sale. On the flip side, there is a finer point rule that if you're using leverage. So let's say you put down money, get a bank loan, it's called a non recourse loan to buy real estate. When you sell it, you would pay what's called unrelated debt financed income, UDFI. Well, when you do that tax return, the 990t, you're going to get a deduction for depreciation. So you do get the write off for depreciation if you have udfi. So rare, this whole situation and you're making so much more money in your HSA than a crappy 2% index fund that Fidelity is going to give you in an HSA if at all. I don't even know if you get that. But anyway, I don't see a drawback on the depreciation topic.

Yeah, no, I, I don't worry about depreciation just because of the appreciation that's going to happen in there. That's tax free growth.

So, yeah. So. All right everybody. The moral of the story is the health Savings account is a tax strategy that super rich use. The middle income users middle income Americans use. This is a wonderful strategy to build wealth. I have an hsa. I love it. Do you have an hsa?

I do have an hsa.

How's it going?

Good. Okay, I'm going to start using it with this.

Okay, I like it. Thanks for coming on. This is Max Merritt, one of our tax lawyers. You can make an appointment with Max. You're about a week or two?

Yeah, about a week and a half.

That's cool. So give us a call at KQS lawyers if you'd like to do a consultation, get your tax plan in place for you. Tax advisors out there if you want to learn about these and other strategies. We're helping so many clients with 80 different strategies. 12 modules in our Tax Pro certification program. Get over to markjkohler.com and do a demo, See what we got for you. We would love to put you on our TaxPro network, help you build your business as a tax advisor. It is an incredible program that so much, so many advisors around the country are leaning on the community. The tribe is amazing. So thanks again for being here, Max. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

So let's get this nurse in here before you pass out.

I'm seeing red now.

See all next week.