How to Keep Death From Creating a Tax Mess

Are you leaving your spouse a mess and no plan? You're a man. There's a 72% chance greater you're going to die before your spouse.

Your tax brackets are shifting dramatically. That $400,000 of income you can have and still be in a 24% bracket is going to go down to only $200,000 of income. And once you get over that 24%, you're going to 32%. If you screw up, you're going to be sending way more money to the IRS than you had to. The differences here is astronomical.

And this affects every one of you listening here.

Welcome everyone to the Main Street Business Podcast. This is Matt Sorenson joined by the incredible Mark J. Kohler. And today is a critical podcast and topic. We are talking about how to avoid the penalties when you die.

Yeah. And there's, there's different taxes and penalties that affect everyone. And many people don't know that. And this is a, This is a podcast we've never held before. A lot of times we're going to talk about topics that we've covered years and years ago, and we want to refresh it, bring it current. But this is a topic we really don't talk about a lot, and that's when you die, married or single, what are the penalties and taxes you could face if you don't do just a little bit of preplanning? There's really a lot of things you can do, and we're going to go through 4 of them today.

Yeah, and I think, uh, everybody jokes about, you know, what are the two things that are inevitable? Death and taxes. But here's one of the things people don't talk about with death and taxes is it is an incredible planning opportunity, and it is one that if you screw up, you're going to be sending way more money to the IRS than you had to. And it's not just about the estate tax. So many things around this. The most common assets you're going to own, we're going to be talking about Retirement accounts, brokerage accounts, real estate, your home. How is this stuff being held? Have you planned for this? How is it getting passed down? The differences here is astronomical in what your family's gonna get to keep versus what you're gonna have to be sending to the IRS and possibly your state.

Yeah. And, and this for, for those of you that are married, are you leaving your spouse a mess and no plan? And that's what it really comes down to as well. Because you think, well, I'm going to, you know, everything I have is going to go to my spouse anyway. There's no, you know, I can leave unlimited money to my spouse tax-free. Oh, we've got some surprises for you today. And you know what, Matt? I love what you said. You cannot avoid death and taxes. Yeah, but you can avoid death, but you can avoid death taxes.

Huh?

You like that? Okay. Yeah. All right. Here, let me just present the 3 of the 4 because they're interconnected. So everybody, hear me out. This is really interesting. One, if you're married and you're at retirement age after 59 and a half, 60, 62, 65, everybody's claiming Social Security somewhere in there depending on your situation. If both of you, and you can be thinking of mom and dad right now, if you're in middle, midlife and you're helping support mom and dad and, guide them.

Or planning for the future yourself, thinking about this. You're getting, you're going to get there.

Yeah. Yeah. If you're, if you're both collecting Social Security, when this one spouse dies, that's going to get cut in half. Now the surviving spouse is going to have choices. They could take the survivor's benefit of Social Security or stick with what Social Security they were getting before their spouse died. They're going to take the higher of the two. Yeah.

You don't get both.

Mm-hmm. You can't take both.

Yeah, yeah.

Yep, can't take both. So you're going to have reduced income. Now what that means, we're going to come back to this, where's that surviving spouse going to get that extra income? They're going to go to the retirement accounts. They're going to start pulling out of an IRA or hopefully a Roth. And how are they going to deal with that? And so the third, so we're going to talk about what tax bracket are you in? After your spouse dies and in the year they die. And then third, how much money do you have in a Roth position? Because I'll tell you, when you're going to make up that Social Security, you're going to want to go pull it from a tax-free ATM, not a taxable ATM. So those are the 3 penalties. And Matt, I want you to start unpacking them in the order you would like. But I want everybody to know, and we got a 4th out here, but the first 3 are Social Security is going to go down. Retirement distributions are going to go up, and what bracket are you in tax-wise? They all play together.

Yeah, and we want to talk about your other assets as well. Your home, your investment accounts, how are you titling and owning those? 'Cause this gets into stepped-up basis, and are you both on title? Is one of you on title? There's different strategic ways you want to do that. Do we have one trust? Separate trust, are we in a community property state or not? We're going to unpack that. So you know the direction, that'll make sense for you because there's some strategic decisions.

Yeah, okay.

I'm just saying there's more we're going to hit here. I want to say one thing too. Let's— we're going to dig into what Mark— the setup there, but sorry, I want to digress for one moment. Remember, the estate tax exemption is— you call it the death tax, the estate tax, whatever you like— is $15 million single, $30 million for a married couple. All right. So we're not hitting that. That's— if you're over that, bless you. You're going to be needing consults with attorneys, tax lawyers, estate planning. You should have your stuff dialed in. We're helping clients with that every day at our law firm, KKOS Lawyers. Let's get to the next level below that. Whether you're not even hitting that level or even at that threshold, we want to hit some of these other points that are really critical. They'll eat into the money you've built up over this time. That you want to keep as much of it as possible is to have a retirement you're looking forward to.

All right, we're talking about Joe and Jane Sixpack. Absolutely all of you are affected by this. And, and let me say this, let me kick it off with this, Matt, because I think this is the crux. In the day your spouse dies— now, number 4, we're going to talk about titling assets, and are you— are we dealing with grandpa or grandma that are widows or widowers? We're gonna— and we're gonna come to that. But here's the big issue. If you're married, the year you die, your surviving spouse gets to claim the same tax bracket as married filing joint. So if your spouse dies in March, even when you file your tax return at the end of the year, you get to claim the whole year as married filing joint. Now the tax bracket is just perfect for Roth conversions. And this is Matt's crème de la crème that I'm setting it up for him here to talk about is the 24% tax bracket. That is my favorite tax bracket because at 24%, a married couple can convert money to Roth up to $400,000. But the year after your spouse dies, that's cut in half. Your tax bracket goes down to $200 grand. So if you know that's the case, and remember, we gotta make up for Social Security, we want to go to those retirement accounts. Wouldn't you rather have more money in Roth? So you're in a sweet spot at that $400,000 tax bracket level, and you either gotta start taking advantage of it now or when your spouse dies in that year. And that's where this all leads. All roads lead to that Roth. And Matt, you love Roth world. Yeah.

Yeah, of course. I, I love a good Roth conversion. We love getting that money so it is gonna grow and come out tax-free. I want to come back to your kids then inheriting from you another kicker, an additional benefit on top of that. But let's just stay in the year your spouse passes away. You're going to be dealing with a lot. All right, obviously one of the things you got to start getting your head around is what am I doing with my retirement accounts? There is $50 trillion in U.S. retirement accounts, is what many Americans are planning on living on in retirement. You may already be living on it or planning to in your future. So if you have traditional accounts, anybody has traditional accounts, the year your spouse passes away You want to be considering Roth converting those assets for that primary reason Mark talked about. Your tax brackets are shifting dramatically. That $400,000 of income you can have and still be the 24% bracket is going to go down to only $200,000 of income for the 24% bracket. So, and once you get over that 24, you're going to 32. It's not just 22 to 24, it's 24 to 32. All right, so this is an ideal time. Maybe you are at, let's say, $200 grand, and, and that's what you're going to have that year in taxable income from everything else you got going on. You can convert a whole nother $200,000 of income, up to $400,000 that year, to Roth, and you'll have no additional tax. You'll still be at the 24%, but no additional tax. You're staying in that bracket. Next year, You're $200 grand of income, you want to do some Roth conversions? Oh, you're in the single bracket now. Your rate's going higher.

Totally. And what I want, so now some of you're going, okay, this is a little information overload. I didn't even know that this strategy could benefit me because you don't have to be rich to do this. You may have an old 401 laying around. Your spouse is going to pay tax on that where at a higher tax bracket. So maybe we rip the Band-Aid off now and get rid of some of that tax at a much, much lower bracket because, you know, this change in Social Security and the other income you're going to have to take. And this is where estate planning now matters. We, we, when we meet with a client to talk about their trust, a plain old joint revocable living trust, we're going to ask, what are your assets? What real estate do you have? What businesses do you have? How much is in retirement accounts? What is it going to look like when you pass away? And we've got to fund this trust. We've got to make sure it owns the property and all the retirement accounts and insurance and everything goes to the right spot. And so some of you, half of America does not have even a will or a trust. So this is a good wake-up call to say, you know what, I got to get my estate plan done. And when I have that meeting, I'm going to talk about this because the more preplanning you can do, thousands, if not millions, in long-term income, you can say.

Yeah, and I think this is just one of multiple moves we want to talk about to be thinking of when your spouse passes away. Now, if you're the surviving spouse, there's other considerations here. We'll, we'll hit on some of those, but when you're the second to die from a married couple, other considerations here. But that first one, the change from being married to filing Married filing joint to single bracket, prime opportunity. As Mark said, in the year of death, you get the married bracket for the whole year. So it gives you some opportunity to do some of this planning. Think of Roth conversions, getting those traditional accounts to come over to Roth. Think about this another way. Let's say that I convert that. Let's just take that example, $200 grand to Roth. Let's say I can get an 8% return on that. What that means is in 9 years, that $200,000 account doubles and is $400,000. Now when I'm pulling that $400,000 out, that's totally tax-free. But if I didn't do that, that would— and I left that stay traditional and still grow to the $200,000 to $400,000 account, I'm paying taxes on that traditional rates. And that's going to be paying late later on when you would have had this opportunity to maybe convert at a lower rate.

Another sneaky strategy that that we talk about when we do estate planning is people will say, we'll ask 'em, do you want to give money to a charity when you pass away? And you may say, yeah, we got this life insurance over here, we've got this asset or whatever. And if either one of us dies, yeah, we've thought about giving a little bit money to an endowment or a charity or our school, our alma mater, whatever. Is it alma or alma mater? Alma mater?

You know, tomato, tomato, you know.

Tomato, tomato. So you want to give money to charity. So in your estate plan, think about this. The first spouse passes away in that year when you're in a lower tax bracket before going single. If you gave more money to charity out of the estate, that surviving, surviving spouse gets the tax deduction for that. Now we're offsetting more Roth conversion. So in the year where you— because it's true, when your spouse passes away, there is going to be a little bit of windfall of income and assets that have to be dealt with. Well, you want to jump on that and say, okay, we're going to pre-plan to give money to charity. We're going to convert that old 401 to Roth, take advantage of the lower bracket and offset some of the tax with Roth, with the charity so we can convert more to Roth because we know that Roth is going to take care of mom. And if you're a man There's a 72% chance greater you're going to die before your spouse. So you need to be thinking, what am I going to leave my spouse? A mess or a plan?

Yeah. Uh, love that. Great additional points there. Um, let me hit one other point and sorry, Mark and I can volley on this forever, but before we get to the next thing, I just want to hit one on the retirement accounts. I know we're always thinking about optimizing for ourselves. And obviously our spouse, if you have one, right? We're thinking of these assets that we've had, that we've built over time. And when we talk about that little strategy of getting to Roth conversion, the number one asset you can leave to your kids is a Roth IRA. There is no more powerful asset your kids can get. I know they can inherit like some real estate and get a step-up in basis or a stock portfolio. Yeah. When they get that, any future appreciation of that asset, the stock in a brokerage account, the real estate, the business that got passed on, any future appreciation that they have in that asset, they're paying taxes on. But the Roth IRA, they inherit that. That money can come out tax-free whenever they want, but they can also invest it for another 10 years. That Roth IRA, which can be inherited to them as an inherited Roth IRA, They can invest it for another 10 years. Again, go back to that 8% annual return. They can double that account entirely tax-free benefiting them and their future retirement. So it, that not only is that Roth conversion help you in your tax planning, as you're drawing that money out, what you leave in it that your kids inherit is the most valuable asset that you could leave them, period.

Yep. Okay. Now I want to summarize our 3 penalties. That we've talked about in a different way and then present number 4, because Matt's comment is a great transition. Number 1, a surviving spouse is going to have less income from Social Security. There's no way around it.

They will.

One of those Social Security checks goes away. Number, which means number 2, they're going to rely more on retirement income from a retirement account, which brings into the play IRD, income in respect of a decedent. So when you collect that retirement account on behalf of your deceased spouse, you're paying tax on it unless you take advantage of a Roth conversion. Which brings us to the third issue. In the year they pass away, you've got a favorable tax bracket you want to take advantage of and convert more as you— as much as you can to Roth, keeping it in that 24% bracket, because the year after they passed away, pass away, you're going to be in a single tax bracket. Cut all of that in half. So those are the 3 problems. We got that lower tax, that higher tax bracket, income in respect of a decedent, and lower Social Security. But we can take advan— but, but we can deal with it if we talk about it and we get that done when you do your estate plan. 'Cause then we have that charitable contribution that could help get you over the hump.

Last thing I want to say, 'cause I know some can get tripped up on this, 'cause you hear about inherited IRA accounts. When your, when your spouse passes away and you're the surviving spouse, you're not doing an inherited IRA. You're doing a spousal rollover. Again, when we're going over your estate, we take inventory of what you got. You got retirement accounts like most people? Okay. List your spouse's beneficiary on that to receive those. We'll list your trust second, or you can list your trust, but your trust was primarily, say, your surviving spouse gets your assets. What that allows for is your spouse inherits that account and it becomes an IRA for them. Or Roth IRA for them, which is important because that means they can still do a Roth conversion. That strategy we're just talking about requires this, what's called the spousal rollover, which every IRA custodian does. We do it at ours every day. License every day, all the time. So, um, but when your kids get it, it's an inherited IRA. Okay.

Yeah. Matt, I'm so glad you got that last point in because so many people are confused between a spousal rollover and an inherited retirement account. They're two different things. So such a good point. Okay, now number 4, and this affects every one of you listening here. It is called my 3 favorite words, stepped-up basis. Now you can either have a huge win with this or a huge disaster. Example, let's say mom and dad, you and your spouse, own a rental property and it's worth half a mil or a mil. It could be a commercial property, could be a single-family home, it could be an Airbnb. But a lot of successful people who listen to our show have rental property. So you've got this rental property and it's got a basis of, let's say, $400,000. And you've been collecting cash flow off the rent for years, maybe even took some depreciation. And that thing is worth $1 million, or it's— your basis is $200 grand and it's worth $800 grand. The bottom line is you've got this big built-in gain. Now you own it in your joint revocable living trust through an LLC. Makes sense. That's what I do. Patty and I have several rental properties in LLCs owned by our joint revocable living trust. Then of course, averages are, especially with me with my high blood pressure, I'm going to die first. Sorry, Patty, if you're listening, don't listen. Okay, so I die first. Well, we only get a stepped-up basis on half the property. So if it's worth a million, then only half of it goes up to 500 grand. The other half inherits half of the basis. So if the basis was 400 grand, now Patty's got a $200,000 basis on a $500,000 piece of it. So she's got a built-in gain of $300,000. And you would think, well, she inherited the rental property, she should get a full stepped-up basis. No, no, no, no. She only gets it on half the property. So she goes to sell it, she's got a tax of, with Fed and state, could be as high as 30%, 35%. So she's paying tax of $100,000 after I die. And when it could have been planned for, in the estate plan. Now, Matt, you've got the first— I love you. I learned this from Matt before the show started. Tell me the first escape hatch on this for a lot of people.

The first escape hatch, which a lot of us get the benefit of, is community property states. Okay? If you live in a community property state, you get the double step-up in basis if you're a married couple and you're the surviving spouse. So that same example Mark went through, Mark passes away first. Patty's surviving spouse, she inherits, let's say, one of their Airbnbs in Arizona that is in a community property state. She gets 100% stepped up in basis. So that property's now worth $1 million, and they bought it for $500K, and even they've depreciated the heck out of it. She gets a new basis reset of $1 million, okay? That's Arizona, which is a community property state. California. There's a number of them. You can read them off here.

Here, read them up. Here's the 9 states, and here's what's interesting, folks. I'm going to give you a big reveal here too. Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin. Now here, here's an interesting point. Patty and I, our residency is Arizona. But a lot of our property is in Utah. Well, Utah is not a community property state, but you say, well, Mark, you get stepped-up basis where Utah or Arizona community property rules that Matt just talked about where you get double stepped-up basis, it comes into play based on where your residency is at date of death. So if I'm an Arizona resident, but I've got property in Utah or New York or Florida, I get double stepped-up basis on all my property around the country if my domicile and residency is a community property state. But you say, well, I live in Utah, but I have property in Arizona, so I get stepped-up basis double on Arizona. No, no, no. Because the property may be in Arizona, but you're a resident and domicile of Utah when you die. So you got to think of where you're at. So when we do your estate plan, people, this is why every one of you should be rushing to make an appointment with our lawyers and say, I got to get my estate plan done, I got to get my trust done, and we got to talk about this crap because that's just the married stepped-up basis issue. What if your kids get involved? Now, Matt, what are your thoughts on that? There's so much to unpack.

Yeah, what I would say then is, so if you're thinking, man, I'm in, let's say Utah, we've thrown that state out. Whatever, but you just, okay, let's just stick to that. I'm in Utah, a non-community property state, and that's where I'm a resident of. What do I do, Mark and Matt? We don't, how do I get the step-up in basis? We've got some assets that are highly appreciated. I don't just want a 50% when I pass away. I want my surviving spouse to get 100% step-up in basis. What can I do? This is where we get, you want to get a little more strategic. You actually might want 2 trusts. There's a number of instances where we'll do 2 trusts for clients. You could have a yours, mine, and our assets, or maybe you've got some very highly appreciated assets, or even just, you know, hundreds of thousands. That doesn't— we don't have to be millions, okay? But you've got some appreciated assets where it's like, hmm, which one of us— and this, you might not know this in your 40s or 50s, but maybe in your 60s or 70s, this might become a little more apparent. That we want to put some more highly appreciated assets in the spouse's trust that is more likely to pass away first.

Yep. And let's do an example. So I love this. So let's stick with, again, me and Patty. We're the— I'm the guy dying today, I guess.

I'm glad you chose that role.

I stumbled right into that one. All right. So I'm the guy dying. I'm coming to grips with this, you know. All right. So let's say that everybody needs to know we're not talking about splitting up your estate, which could screw up kids' inheritance, his, hers, and ours and all that. We're not splitting up value. We're splitting up basis. So what that means is, let's say Patty and I have a big retirement account, a Roth account worth $1 million, and then we've got this property over here worth $1 million, but with a really low basis. Well, right now it's joint 50/50 on both of them. So if we died and we're Utah residents, maybe we move out to the ranch and I die first. She only gets stepped up basis on half of the property. But the retirement account doesn't matter because it's a Roth and it's a retirement account. So stepped up basis doesn't matter. We're back to IRD. So, whoa, this is interesting. Well, what can we move in the trust into my trust? So I get a stepped up— Patty gets a stepped up basis. So we may move the property into my trust. We do separate trusts and then the retirement account goes into her trust. Now we're going to split up everything equally with the kids. However, we're going to do it anyway. But if I die first, which chances are, she gets stepped-up basis to $1 million, zero tax. She just saved $100 grand and didn't even know it. That's what the planning is all about.

Yeah. And, and we never know who's going to die first, obviously. Like you're, you're, you're making bets here, so to speak, but you have an opportunity to be far more strategic about it. And sometimes you, I hate to say it, I mean, this is how life happens. You start seeing which. Health of you is deteriorating more quickly, which of you might have a terminal medical or illness, that might be the time to start doing some shifting of assets in the non-community property states where we may want to take advantage of the step-up basis because spouses, husband and wife, you can transfer assets between each other as much as you want. There's no gift tax or penalties between spouses or your trust. You can move assets around whenever you want. You get the carryover basis, no resetting of all the rules. And so you can get a little more strategic about that. So you might be thinking, man, I don't know, I'm 40 or 50. We don't know who's gonna outlast. Just think about this. This could be something later on. Maybe you're thinking about this for your parents where it's pretty apparent which one's— this can be. So just playing the issue.

You gotta play odds. So I was at the casino last week. Watching my sons play poker and they were, and they'd split a hand. I'd be like, why did you split that hand? Well, you got better odds if you split. So when you have two aces or two eights, you always split your hand because you're going to play the odds. So Patty needs to play the odds that I'm going to die before her. So in our estate planning, we're just going to do that. And I got to come to grips with that. So it's just, you got to play the numbers.

I mean, it's statistics. Yeah, you gave the statistics earlier, so.

All right, now let me give you another crazy one, folks. Let's say you're single or we've got Grandma or Grandpa. Mm. And they've got this big asset. There's a farm, there's a stock brokerage account, there's a second home. Maybe it's the primary residence. And it's worth a couple million. Nowadays, it's not unheard of to have a home worth a couple million, especially in our coastal states. Right. You think of the California 401, man, you can't even get a condo for under $1.5 million. Right. So you, so you've got this big asset.

The California 401. Is that the condo for $1.5 million?

Yeah. So let's say Mom or grandpa hates lawyers. It hurts, it hurts 'cause Matt and I, we try to save the world and make it a better place. But they may hate just the thought of working with a lawyer and doing an estate plan. And they heard from their friend Marge that said, "Hey, just put your kid on title with you. Just go down to Merrill Lynch or Edward Jones and put your kid on the account with you with rights of survivorship so that when you die, they inherit the property. You don't have to do a trust, you don't have to do any will or planning. And we see this all the time. Grandma or grandpa goes and puts their oldest child on title with them on the big asset brokerage account, whatever the hell it is. And then they die. So now, example, $5 million property. They die. That child gets stepped-up basis on how much, everyone? Half. And that's even on community property, 'cause that's a child, that's not a spouse. So community property doesn't even matter. So in all 50 states, that child only gets stepped-up basis on half of that $5 million asset. Now they're paying tax on whatever that built-in gain is on the other half when they didn't have to, if they would've done a freaking trust. And that's only half the battle. I mean, Matt, what are your thoughts before we even move on to the second problem?

Yeah, I mean, this is the most classic mistake that we see, and it is people trying to avoid doing a trust. The number one thing most wealthy people have a freaking family trust, revocable living trust that says who gets your assets. And I know you're like, I want this to pass on. I don't want my kids to go to probate court and all this and have to deal with all the lawyers. And I get that. The trust does that. You talk to a lawyer now, you do a little bit of planning, you get it done, and then your trust owns that property and you've got your plan set. Your kid's going to get it when you die and they're going to get the step-up in basis that we've talked about. 100% when you pass away.

100%.

They can sell that $5 million asset you bought for $500 grand and pay zero tax. But shocker, you tried to avoid the lawyers, so you just put them on title because you got it done in a deed with the title company. And now when you, they go to sell that property now for $5 million, they got a 50% step-up in basis. To, you know, where they got, I guess they get $2.25 or, no, they get about $2 million. So pin 20% on another $2.5 approximately here, just hang with me. That's like $50 grand in taxes at a long-term rate. $500 grand, sorry, you gotta add an extra zero. Yeah, add another zero, geez, $550 grand.

You just saved half a million in tax.

And that's just one asset we're talking about here. So we see that mistake all the time.

Yep.

And we have to unwind it.

Pshew. And the second problem is the child then has to gift that asset to the other siblings and use up some of their gift lifetime exemption or pay gift tax. Where with a trust, it would've just passed without gift tax, without some sort of disclaimer, which may or may not work. And it just, going to court, probate, all that crap, if they just would've done the trust. Now I want to throw this out. We, you may be catching this podcast 5 months from now, 5 weeks from now, a year from now, whatever. But for those that are catching our podcast on a regular basis, we have just given you the perfect Father's Day gift. From Memorial Day to Father's Day, we do a special every year. This is our 11th year because once you go to some visit someone's grave on Memorial Day or you're thinking of the perfect Father's Day gift, we thought, let's give you a gift and do a discount on our annual estate planning special. Only one time a year for 3 weeks we do this discount. Now, if you're here catching this later, who cares about the discount? You already see the problem. You don't want to pay $500,000 in tax or do an estate plan for $3,000 or $4,000. That's pretty easy. But if you're looking for the perfect Father's Day gift, give them an estate plan because guess who's going to benefit? It is the perfect passive-aggressive gift of the year. You're going to give them the estate plan and then totally benefit from them. And so let me just say, you're welcome.

Yeah, I can't think of a better Father's Day gift. It's right around the corner. You missed Mother's Day. You could have set this up, you know, for mom, but you can save it. With the Father's Day gift. And, uh, whether you use us or not— and now we have an incredible team here helping clients across the country get their estate plans done— think of these things, be strategic about it, and leave as much of their wealth in the exact way they want to. There's so much more to it. It is not complicated. We do this every day. We can simplify you, guide you down the path so you can get it done and across the finish line. But get it done, whether using us or not. Hopefully you will be able to keep more of these hard-earned assets for yourself and your families. And hopefully this podcast helps you get one step further to that.

Yeah. Thanks everybody for listening. We're trying to get creative here and point out a lot of things. Again, back to the beginning of the show, this is stuff we normally don't talk about, but we see it all the time and we just had to bring it together all in one show. So. 4 things that are going to affect everybody, no matter your income level, married or single. These are penalties or taxes that you can truly avoid. So bring these up. We will bring them up with you when we do an estate plan with you very affordably. And whether we have a special or not, this is a— there's no time better than the present to deal with this because I hate to tell you, you will die and you don't know when. So if you've got some secret crystal ball that will help me out, I would love to see it. So thanks everybody. We will see you next week for another show of the Main Street Business Podcast. Please share this with your friends and family members. Give us a, a 5-star, 2 thumbs up, 10 outta 10. So grateful to be here with you. We love you. We love the American dream, and we'll see you next week.