Open Forum | Main Street Business Podcast |

Foreign. Welcome everyone, to the Main Street Business podcast with Mark Kohler and Matt Sorenson. We're recording today on St. Patrick's Day.

Boom.

And I just want to note, as is evidence of the video version of this which you can get on Mark Kohler's YouTube channel, I'm wearing green. Mark is not.

That looks more like turquoise.

It's just bad lining. It's green.

Okay. All right. I am holding a golden bitcoin. So for those that want to see this, you can go to YouTube and see what a real bitcoin.

This is a golden egg just for any of you to know. If you don't, if you're not getting the joke. It's not a great one, but it's a joke. Jeez.

Yeah.

So is that a pot of gold? Is this the same Patrick's Day?

So I did shoot a video for St. Patrick's Day and said that this is your chance to give yourself a gift on St. Patrick's Day. Put a little gold in your Roth IRA. So if you already have your Directed IRA account set up, you can call the team over there and just say, hey, can you give me a list of some precious metal dealers? It's, it's a wild crazy jungle out there of precious metal dealers, but we have a few that, that we recommend you do your due diligence on. And you could buy a little gold right inside your Roth. There you go.

Yeah, absolutely. You buy gold, silver, platinum, or palladium. Those are the four precious metals you can own in your ira.

What about a zirconium? I can't buy a zirconium.

No, that doesn't work. That's, you know, that's what you get for your. That's what you get instead of a diamond for.

You know, I told my wife it was a precious. Precious.

It's more precious than diamonds.

Yes, that's what I said. Didn't go over that.

Or you can also get the gold of the future in your ira. True Bitcoin or ethereum. Or maybe that's going to be the lump of coal in the future. Who knows? Yes, plenty of options, of course, with your self directed retirement account. Well, today's episode is our open forum show where we are taking questions from you, our valued listeners that we love and we're giving free advice. You don't pay for this. We're just two tax lawyers, you know, just shooting off the hip, giving free advice on the questions that you're facing in your small business and your personal life.

Yeah, hopefully we. Wow. You we want to start with a little news first. I've got the star here. I want to point out that Jen and Brad are back together. They're back together. Matt. I'm so excited. They are having nights of passion now. At first when I saw this, I thought it can't be true. And as a good tax lawyer, I do my research. So I had to verify this. So I went to the National Enquirer and to get a second party verification.

Okay.

And they are reporting the same that. Wow. Yeah.

Okay. What about JLO and a Rod? Did they break up? I'm confused.

Yes, they did. Now I've got another issue over here. See, I've watched the news. I watched tmz.

Yeah, I'm sure we've got a lot of questions. There's a lot of questions on the status of Jen and Brad and JLo and. Or a Rod.

But we got to move on. I guess so. Yeah, I just. Anyway, I thought I'd let you all know that that is. It's on the date we've all been waiting for. Jen and Brad are back together. We'll keep you posted here at the Main Street Business podcast with the news that really matters. So really excited for it.

Okay.

Do you want to take our first question?

Yes, let's do it.

Okay.

All right. This came. This comes from Carol. Carolina from SoCal. Carolina. Carolina. Carolina from SoCal. Like South Carolina. Okay. Says my family and I want to buy a rental property.

I've never heard of South Carolina's kind of SoCal. You know, I think they're trying to pull off the SoCal thing, you know, like Orange county, but it's really South Carolina. Do you call it socar? Anyway. Okay, keep going. Just confirming.

Okay.

So her question is. Yeah.

My Mom's retired school teacher, 65, has $100,000 in a 403 that she wants to self direct to help with down payment of a property by loaning us part of the down payment. And my adult twin daughters and I will put in 60,000 on an 800,000 property that would cash flow 1,000 to 1,500amonth. Do we need a multi member IR LLC? Is there tax write offs? How do we distribute them? My daughter used the write off. They each claim single 100 to 30, 140 annual salary. They max out their 401k and Roth contributions. Okay.

Now do they need a multi member LLC or a pair of handcuffs? Which one?

Yeah, I. This is. This one's dicey. Why did I start with this one? Geez. I just walked right into this. Okay, now let's hit a couple technical points. Only because it's necessary.

Okay, Fair enough.

You asked Caroline. Yeah, you asked.

We're delivering.

All right. Okay. When you have a retirement account, there are people who are what are called disqualified to it. Disqualified persons. Now, when you look at your mom, who's got 100k and a 403b, she can roll that to a self directed IRA. So a 403b is like a 401k for someone that, you know, worked at a. A government, the state or county government, typically, or maybe a nonprofit. So that can be rolled out, typically traditional dollars, and it'll get rolled into a traditional self directed ira. Okay, Mom. Mom's retired, she doesn't work there. She's gonna be able to roll it out, no problem. Okay. Now she's got $100,000 in a traditional self directed IRA, and you're saying, all right, can mom loan us part of the money for the down payment? No, mom cannot loan you money. Why? You are a disqualified person. So if you were the borrower or your daughters, her mom's your mom here, grandkids, they are also disqualified. So her IRA cannot loan money to you and transact. Okay, the prohibited transaction rule is who's on the other end of the transaction with your mom's ira, is that person disqualified or not here? If you're there, your daughters are there. That's disqualified. Loaning money is going to be a prohibited transaction. Now, there's an option, though, and you brought this up, Carolina, a multi member LLC. So you could set up an LLC where your mom's self directed IRA here puts in the 100 grand as an investor, as a partner in here with you and your daughters also putting in money. Now, here's the rub, though. The ownership has to be based on the dollars invested. So because you guys are all prohibited to each other, your kids, you know, you. If your mom puts in 100k and gets, let's say, 50% ownership, you're. You're gonna have to put in 100% if you want 50% ownership. 100k. Yeah. So I don't know. It's the best structure. I've got some other options with your mom on that 100k. That could not be a distribution. Maybe she could roll to a solo K and do a loan for 50K. There might be some other, some other strategies. But yes, it's possible. I don't know that it's going to hit exactly what you want because you guys are going to have to put in the same amount of money she puts in for the ownership stake you want. If you guys all want to be one third partners, maybe mom, you and your daughter, or maybe 25% each for your. So your two daughters are all in there and you're all equal. If mom puts in 100k, you all have to put in 100k to get the same ownership.

You can have different ownership percentages. That's very common and that's okay. Yeah. But here's what I'd recommend. Two things. One, is it doable? Yes. We'd have to make some changes, some modifications to your idea or plan. We'll tell you exactly what's possible and we stand behind it. I'd recommend to schedule an hour with one of our tax lawyers. They're out about a week and a half. Don't stress, make an appointment. And if they do set up a multi member llc. The hour you pay for goes towards the same cost you would have paid from the beginning for that llc. If you just get the advice, you go. Good to know. I dodged a bullet. It's money well spent so that you don't get into problems. The second thing I'd say, Matt, I'm going to call an audible here because we have a sister podcast titled the Directed IRA Podcast. I am going to propose that we nail as many non IRA questions first and then we'll go into those Ira Roth type questions and any that we can't get to we'll cover in our open forum for the Directed IRA Podcast. How do you feel about that?

Okay, fair enough.

And any of you that are putting in questions that are self Directed related, Roths, HSAs, 401ks, all these goodies. Oh, we love the topic and we'll hit as what we can here, but please go onto your podcast app that you're using, even Spotify or YouTube and type in the Directed IRA podcast with Matt Sorenson and Mark Kohler or Mark Kohler and Matt Sorensen preferably. But you can get there and get the podcast and tune into that.

Okay, just remember Matthew comes before Mark in the Bible. I mean,

boy, I don't know. It's in the back on that.

Jeez.

Yeah, but that Matthew had two T's.

Let's not get technical.

Okay. All right, I've got a question from Robert and in New Jersey says love the show. My wife and I live in New Jersey and own several rental properties in various other states. When preparing our trust, our attorney insisted on creating two separate trusts instead of just one they wanted one trust for my wife and one for me. With each of us as co trustees of each other's trust hiatus, deed the properties into both trusts as tenants in common. I believe the main reason was to avoid probate in multiple states as well as to reduce potential taxes should we die. What are your thoughts? Any other benefits, drawbacks to the structure or does it needlessly complicate things? Oh, Robert, you said you believe the main reason was to avoid probate in multiple states. The main reason was to charge you more money. Now if you were second marriages with prenups, two trusts, maybe his, hers and our kids, two trusts, maybe. But you can avoid probate with a joint married trust. You're not going to have any difference in taxes with a joint married trust and we would charge you a lower rate to do one joint married trust in New Jersey versus two individual trusts. I think it's over complicated things. It's regrettable. What's done is done. You may want to just, you know, not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Leave it the way it is. I'm not saying 2 trust is the end of the world by any means, but it does complicate things. And as long as you can understand it and operate within those parameters, you're good to go. I will say this too. Some people go, hold it. Your law firm does estate plans and trusts all over the country? Yes, we do. And we're very affordable. To the point we piss off a lot of other law firms because our documents and package is freaking amazing. We fine tuned it over 20 years and the difference in estate law from state to state is minute. And we are allowed to prep docs just like a corporation or an LLC in any state. And we can help those clients that call upon us to do so. So if you would feel like you don't know where to turn or your estate planning attorney charged you too much or overcomplicated it and you want to just clean house and redo it, 90% or more of our estate plans are completed for $1,500. If you have more assets, more complication, we'll charge a little more. But we always disclose that in advance and let you know that it would cost a little more. But single or married, 1500 bucks 90% of the time. So. Robert, I hate to tell you, I think it's overkill. Matt, would you agree?

Oh yeah, for sure. And yeah, thanks for saying we're the best. You know,

that's easy. Okay.

Sorry. Okay.

Not to be too self serving, but just want to give you guys options. Give you options. That's all it is.

Yeah. And who. Yeah, I mean, who thought lawyers could. Can I, you know, be liars out there? And who knows? Who knew that was Mark's first book, by the way. For any. For any of you that have that one, Lawyers or Liars. It's a classic. You don't me bringing that up.

No, it's okay. It's okay. I hate the title, but it's. It's a play on words.

You know, they paid him big money to use Lawyers or Liars.

Yeah. Strong army first book. You're never in control in your first book.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, he wasn't the big deal he is today. So

I'm just.

I mean, I'm joking, but serious too. Okay. All right. This is from Kirsten that we got a PPP question.

Okay. Ooh.

She says, I'm applying for forgiveness for a PPP loan. We maintain our employee count through 2020, but here in February and March 2021, we are down to a smaller crew due to lack of snow as we're a seasonal business. The application asks how many employees I had at the time of PPP and how many I have now. If this is going to affect my forgiveness, then maybe I should wait until I hire more employees to actually apply for forgiveness. I can't wait much longer because I received the funds April 17th. Okay, couple thoughts. First, the rules have changed a lot on employee headcount. The first thing to know is you can have a reduction of up to 25% and still be fine. So you can have a reduction in full time equivalent employees up to 25% and be good. Also, Kirsten, I would. And for anyone out there too, we're looking at your employee headcount during the covered period. Okay. We're not looking at your employee headcount now when you're filing for PPP forgiveness. So if you got the loan way back in April, I don't know what covered period you took, but presumably your covered period was up by August, you know, or September. And so that's when we're looking at for forgiveness, Whether the PPP funds are forgiven. Now, there is some boxes on the forgiveness forms, that is more data collection by the SBA in terms of they're trying to be able to say how many jobs were saved. So sometimes they're asking a question, not necessarily for forgiveness and your employee headcount at the end of the covered period, but they're asking for it now when you're applying for forgiveness Again, it's not really relevant now when you're applying for forgiveness. Think of during the covered period when you had the PPP funds and were paying and if you got the funds back in April, your covered period was done in 2020. So I would think you'd be okay. We want to look at the numbers to make sure and look at your covered period. Also there's a lot of exceptions and way out ways out of that. If you tried to hire and bring back people just for everybody so they know that employee is not counted against you. Also, if your business was unable to operate because of COVID rules, let's say you're a restaurant and restaurants can only operate at half capacity. They're only going to make you have to count half employees. Or let's say you, you, you know, you're a venue that shut down or whatever. Whatever you can say if I had a, a Covid related reason where I had to operate at a lower phase because of health rules or social distancing rules or all these things, you can get an exception and those employees don't count against you. So I think there's a lot of wiggle room there. But you might want to get some advice just particularly on your covered period. And I would look there, make sure you still have the same employee headcount.

Now, Kristen, I am disappointed because I would have loved a little more information about your seasonal business in the snow. Sounds like fun. We need to let Matt Sorenson know what he's missing out living in Phoenix, what happens in the rest of the world in the winter. So next time, yes, let us know.

And actually, let me say this, there's some special seasonal business rules in the ppp. True that. I, you know, so I don't know if you applied under those rules in terms of qualification. If you did, you'll want to use those on the back end in terms of forgiveness. But just know there are some seasonal rules if that's the factor where you haven't brought back. But, but again I think your covered period don't be focused on where you're at right now in February and March of 2021. Focus on where you were last year when you had the PPP funds and you're covered, you know, 24 week period.

Okay. I would also say for anybody, that's okay. The deadline for the PPP second round loan is March 31st. So we're just a couple weeks away. It's heating up. A lot of people are like oh my gosh, I better get my app in and that's a strategic move, too, because the next question we have is regarding the employee retention tax credit. And if you're going to do the ERC employee retention credit, you want to use that in the first or second quarter and apply for the PPP at the last minute. Well, not the last minute, don't blow it. But you want to get the ppp, Kristen, later than the ERC so that you can use both to your advantage. Because you can't use the same funds for both. You can't get PPP money and pay payroll and then get an ERC credit for the same payroll. But you can get both benefits if you'd work the timing right. So everybody out there, I was just going to say, don't forget, the application is the end of this month. It's due. And the SBA has done a phenomenal job. They are wonderful. We love those men and women over there. If anybody had a train wreck in their career or life, it was Covid when it came to their job. I mean, these people have been working nonstop for a year and a half here and just bless their hearts. About two and a half weeks ago, they released another 55 page memorandum of technical rules guidance clarifications. So I know it sounds miserable, but if any of you just get a bowl of popcorn and a Diet Coke, snuggle up to the SBA website and believe it or not, their Q and A is very easy to understand. It really is. And I would go there for a lot of your answers. Don't shop for an answer you like on someone's blog. Use my blog and Matt's blog to get the basics, but then go to the SBA to get the hardcore. Okay, so erc. This is from Dixie. Dixie's Dixie is her name. Not, you know, from area.

The location of Dixie.

Okay, Dixie, which. Which I don't know which state Dixie,

because Dixie could be a guy.

That's true too. It could also be or one state or a region. Good old Dixie. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just feeling like I want a hush puppy right now. Okay, Mark and Matt, I love what you do for our community. Thank you. You bet. Thanks, Dixie. Hopefully a simple question I have not been able to find guidance on do non government 501s qualify for the ERC? Your article on ERTC was so helpful. Well, thanks, Dixie. Oh my gosh. I could update that article every three days and I've given up. There's so many little guidance things coming out from the SBA and the irs. But Everybody. The ERC is the employee retention credit, which you can get up to $7,000 per employee per quarter in 2021. I've got a pretty significant article. If you just even type. Can I get the ERTC my articles in the top three, if not the first out there, And I'm grateful for that. But if you add the word Kohler, you'll definitely get my article. I've got some tables in it, some examples, some really. It's really helpful, I hope, to get you at least up to speed to see if you qualify in Dixie. The answer is yes, you can be a 501C3 and you qualify under the same rules for 2021. You only have to show a 20% reduction in gross sales, not the prior 50% reduction. All the rules are the same. So the nonprofits are in the money. You can get the PPP and the erc. You got the same comparison of income. It does increase the threshold of large employer status. I mean, I could just go on and on, but you are prompting me, Dixie, to maybe go add a paragraph in my article regarding nonprofits just so that that answers out there. But it's just a bottomless pit. I just don't know what to do. But you're good.

All right, I got Brad's question here. Yeah, so same Mark and Matt. He put Mark before Matt. More people are doing Mark before Matt. Dang it. Okay.

Two T's and two T's. By the way, that.

Yeah, that's okay.

I.

Until I was, like, in high school, because I didn't even realize that on my birth certificate I had one.

So now, by the way, everybody directed Ira, all the questions come in. Matt, we love what you do. Or Matt and Mark. I'm kind of the redheaded stepchild on that podcast, so don't be sad. Okay? Go to Brad.

It's not like I have a complex about it or anything. He says, I love this show. Been a listener for many years. I owned a duplex in a small town in Utah. Was popular for tourism. I lived in one half and Airbnb the other half. I owned it for two and a half years, then sold it in 2020. My dad helped me on the down payment, and it was on the deed of as an owner of the home as well. Ooh, I don't like where this is going. We made pretty decent amount of money on the sale of the home.

I like that.

But I'm wanting to put all the proceeds of the sell on the home in my name for tax reporting purposes. Because I want to exclude all of the capital gain since I was owner occupant. What he wants to say is I want the sell of home exemption because I get 250,000 sell of home exemption single, 500,000 married. Or you pay no tax when you sell your residence. Is that okay? Or do I have to split the capital gains with my dad and he pays capital gains tax because he was. Because he was, I think you said, not an owner because he was an owner. If we put all the proceeds in my name, could that trigger an IRS audit? Thank you. Thanks. Okay, this is one of those classic instances where families, parents and children need to stop putting each other on title. Okay, let me repeat that. Do not go on title to property between parents and kids. Here's one instance and there's the reverse instance where kids try to get on property with their parents because they're trying to avoid an estate plan here. And this is the opposite here is mom and dad help you or dad helps you get the property and wants to be on the deed. Well, what did that do that screwed up your sale of home exemption. Okay. And now you may want to take an aggressive position on this. You can decide how you want to do it. But he was an owner with you in the property and I'm nervous about that in terms of you getting the sale of home exemption. What we would want to have done, what I would have recommended, have dad loan you the money. Instead have him put a lien on the property to make sure he gets paid back on it. He probably didn't want the equity in this thing. Was he really expecting to be a partner in this or was he just trying to loan you the money to help you get it? If he's just trying to loan you the money to help you get it, should have just done a loan and a deed of trust on the property.

Okay?

Just document what it is. Don't get him on title because now this causes the problem. If the IRS looks at it, they're going to say, well, there was two owners of this. Did dad live in the property? How come he owned it? See, the rules are you must own and live in the property two out of the last five years. Now you're in a odd area here. I frankly don't know if there's any cases on this, but I would think, you know, I'm just going to say you're going to have a hard time avoiding the sell of home exemption because on title you probably closed it. Now, if you asked me before closing, I would have said, have dad deed his ownership to you right now. Yeah. So you close and sell on it because you've really been there for two years and you've at least been on title for half during the year. Let's have dad deed it. But it looks like this already sold in 2020, so. And I presume that the title company did 1099 sales proceeds to you and dad. So now there's a mess out there of the sales proceeds of who got what. So it's a mess. Yeah.

And let me throw this out.

Do you have any help for him?

I don't, frankly. It comes down to the title company. I would go to your closing documents and ask the title company where they issued the 1099. Now, if you're freaking lucky and you've been saying your prayers at night and been a good little boy, there's a chance they issued the 1099 in its entirety to you. Now, your audit risk just disappeared entirely. And I think ethically and honestly, you can go to the IRS too, and say, hey, I lived in it. I made all the payments. It was my freaking house. My dad was just on tile for a dumb reason. We made a mistake. And you could get a very, I think, sympathetic IRS agent if it did come to that.

There's a few of them. Not many.

Not many. Can't guarantee that. Matt loves to say, whatever makes logical sense. Don't count on it when it comes to government entities. That's a fair point. But I'm just saying, if the 1099 was split between you and Dad, I think you're toast.

Yeah. You got an uphill battle. You're right. If they did the ends of the 1099s, if you got all the proceeds, I think you can roll with it because that's what the IRS understands happen in the transaction. That's the tax reporting they're getting. If you put. If you try and lay this up as on your return, and Dad's got a 1099 out here too, and say, well, it's all sell of home exemption on mine. It's gonna. It's not gonna jive in the IRS system. It's gonna get flagged, I would presume.

Yeah.

So unfortunately, Brad, the ship sailed on this one a little bit. I hope that helps to give you an idea of where you may be sitting right now or. But there's really not much you can do besides, like Mark said, just checking the 1099s and who got what. But I. But I'll say this. I do love this strategy, I'm getting more and more people doing this. Real estate's been doing great the last couple years. People are moving, they're good to have a lot of gain they're getting and they're wanting to use this sell of home exemption. So just remember that. I even have people that are like waiting till two years and one day to sell just to make sure they get this. The cell of home exemption.

Yeah, okay. By the way, Brad, I just want to call you Orlando because you know why? Because four Christmases, Vince.

Orlando.

And you know, Brad. Brad.

And he's like, I like their, their, all the brothers. They were named after the city they were conceived in. Dallas. And

Dallas. And what was the other one? Oh, my gosh, I gotta see if I can. Denver. That's right, our producer, Denver in Dallas. Yeah. So he changed his name for Orlando to Brad. Reese Witherspoon's like, you failed to tell them, mention that to me. It's kind of a big deal. He's like, I just changed my name, you know, so, Brad, I'm sorry you have to deal with that, but thanks for letting me joke around. Okay, now, all right, I'm going to jump over to Instagram for a moment. We've got a question from P. Nasui that says, how do you hire your children in Illinois? Illinois states that you can't if they are under 12. Is that true? Well, first of all, you have to look up the laws under the Illinois Department of Labor. Now, the first thing I would say, child labor laws primarily apply to an employer hiring other kids. They're trying to prevent the exploitation of hiring children that aren't your children under your care. And so that's where labor laws really come in. So when they talk about of a letter intent to hire, they have to have this permit. The issuing officer must review criteria. My daughter had to go through this. She got a job at age 17 in California with an employer that had her go through this application because she was a minor. Did I have to do that as her parent? No. Most of the states, every time I dig deep, there's an exemption for family businesses. Also, I'm looking at the Illinois law here and it says the rule right here, exemptions work of a minor, employment of a minor outside of school hours, in and around a home of an employer when the work is not business related is exempt. Caddying a golf course. Love that one. Certain sports activities. But it doesn't mean you can't hire children and especially children that are your own. And you can get Exemptions and things like that. Are you telling me that the kids working at Disney in California under age 12, someone's violating the law? No, you're fine. People do not stress about this. The real protection for your children is what is called family protective services. If someone sees you employing your children and abusing them, that's who's going to come after you, not the child labor law. The child labor law is again to protect non family children. Protective services is there to protect family children. And just be careful people. Don't overdo it. I mean, I used to let my kids when they were five years old run the paper shredder without supervision. A few trips to the emergency room, I learned the hard way, you know, you just don't do that.

And so they get the one with the safety. The safety device though.

Oh, they make it with safety devices.

Oh my God, they have those now? Yeah, yeah.

Geez. What they come up with? It was probably some emergency room horror story, reality tv, Mark Holder, too many lawsuits. Yeah, yeah. So no. We love hiring children in our businesses and thanks for letting me joke around. Be careful, be reasonable, be cautious and you're going to be fine. Don't worry about the labor laws for your own kids. Just be careful. Oh, what's our producer saying? Oh yeah, Corey said he had no protection for his shredder. He's over there typing with nubs. So I just don't know. You can still type what, 40 words a minute? 30. You're fine. Quit your belly aching over there. You know that's why they made mouses. They made a mouse for that reason. So.

All right, this here's a question from Josh. He says been a KQS and K and E client for years now. I'm always wonder if I'm using my business any properly. My wife and I are owner members of both businesses. One being an llc, taxes and S Corp and the other just a regular llc. The S corp is used for a house flipping business and is the one we have used to build business credit. The other is where we hold our three rentals. Okay. Exactly what we'd recommend. The types of rentals we purchase typically require extensive rehab like our flips do. And we end up having to either commit personal funds or take distributions from the S corp and then commit them to the LLC in order to pay bill as contractor. This always seemed like the hard way to use our businesses and have always wondered if we should just purchase, renovate in our S corp and transfer to the LLC when completed. Advice is appreciated. Okay, Josh, Let me give you the good news. You're doing it the right way.

Yes. I love this guy's question. It's like I just want to get my silver star.

Yeah, I mean you're doing it, not a gold star. I mean, okay, why did you start from him?

Here's my golden egg. Okay, you can have the golden egg today. Yeah.

Okay.

Good job.

All right. Sorry, Josh. Silver star, Josh. But here's the thing. If you did these in the S corp and then transfer them to your llc, there's tax issues of getting it out of the S corp and is it a sale? I know you own the other llc, but it's not as easy as you think of deeding out of an LLC taxed as an S corp over to another llc. If these are just non S corp issues here, other one LLC to another that you own, well, I think you're already doing it the right way. It's not as problematic, but just know there's a tax hang up transferring property out of an S corp because it could be need to be deemed to sell. But what you're doing is exactly the right way. Just keep doing it the way you're doing it.

Now I'll give a technical answer here, which I think is some of the CPAs listening and tax advisors. When clients say, hey, I'm doing a flip that we might keep as a rental, I give them two cautionary points. As soon as you know you're going to keep it as a rental, get it out of the S corp or do the entire rehab in the LLC to begin with. It's a lot easier to move it to the S corp after the rehab is completed and sell it than it is to move it from the S corp to an LLC and rent it after the rehab is completed. The reason why some of you may go, why is that in an S corp because it's flow through taxation. The one time where they do tax you is if you have appreciated property. So if you buy a rehab for 200, fix it up and it's worth 300 and then move it to the LLC, you got to pay tax on the hundred grand. Now you get a stepped up basis and you start to depreciate it at 300 minus land value. But you don't want to go that direction. The other option I tell them is if you know you're going to make it a rental, get it out of the S corp before year end. Because as long as it doesn't show up on the tax return for the S corp, there's a lot of, you know, freedom and latitude to get it out of the S Corp before the tax returns file. But once that tax returns file and you're past December 31st especially, you're going to have a building gains problem. And sometimes we tell clients, just leave it in the S Corp and rent it there because to get it out, it's a pain in the butt. So that's the only cautionary point there. But I love what you're doing. Good stuff. Okay. This is.

I like the detail.

Well, thanks. Now, P. Nasui, I'm a little concerned. His or her questions are wonderful. And my screenshot is so small I can't see if it's a male or female with this little tiny centimeter of a picture. But P. Nasui is asking great questions, but a lot of them. So don't be frustrated. I'm going to at least answer one of those. I'm going to take a second one just because it really is a good one. P. Nasui says, why is it bad to have two owners of an S corporation? Well, if it's husband and wife, it's great. I love that. I only want to have 1s corp in a marital relationship if possible, but for any other reason. They're a mess. And the reason it comes down to one word, flexibility. So I have a chapter in my book Tax Legal Playbook. You can get it on Kindle in minutes. You can get it shipped to you on prime within 24, 48 hours. There's a whole chapter on partnering where I go through this very issue and give detailed examples and how to get out of it. So please read that chapter. It's worth the 1995 or what? Less, whatever. But really look into that. It's just flexibility. I'm going to get less write offs for my clients in that situation every time. Every time. So it's a mess. So, people, if you're in an S corp with a partner, you got a problem and you may go. Well, I have a good accountant. I would like to debate that. Your account should be trying to get you out of that. Absolutely. Every day and on Sunday. Okay, Matt, your call.

All right. Now let me just say there's a bunch of questions in here on crypto and IRAs and LLCs that hit. Get ready for the Directed IRA podcast. We're going to cover those in the Directed IRA Open Forum podcast. So. But Terry Kim, those of you that ask those questions, make sure you're following and subscribe to that podcast. We'll hit those and we might get to them today?

We might. Yeah.

Okay. All right.

Okay.

Okay.

Are you going to grab Michelle?

Good ones? I want to grab them. I'm going to do Suhel Suhail.

Okay.

He says this is a follow up question to one we asked on the last Open Forum show. He says, I'm a listener to your podcast and absolutely love it. Thank you. I've already learned a lot. I'm a recent real estate investor and I was intrigued by the guidance on your February Open Forum show. You advise to transfer the deed to your personal name to refinance the loan and then transfer the deed back to the LLC. Okay. You could do the loan in the LLC's name if you want, but a lot of clients will deed it from their LLC back to their personal name to refinance it and then after the refinance, they get it back into the llc. And that was one of the questions we had a month or so ago. He says, I assume this applies to new rentals as well. This is his question. Where I can get the loan in my personal name, buy the property, and then transfer indeed the property to my llc. Since the mortgage will still not be since the mortgage will still be in my name and I will be making payments, does it still maintain the liability protection of the llc? Excellent question. Yes, you'll still have the liability protection of the llc. Not from the bank. Yeah, you personally, all other creditors. So if you buy the property in your personal name, this is very common, particularly for single family rentals. And then you deed it to the LLC later, the LLC owns it. You'd want the lease in the name of the llc. Tenants are paying the llc. The LLC owns it. Anything happens on the property with tenants or people there, they have to sue the llc. Okay. Now the bank, you're still on the hook. Liable personally, of course, to the bank where you sign the mortgage and they've got a lien on the property anyways, so. So you're still gonna have the liability there. Now the next question he asked was, do I need to be paying the mortgage for my personal account or LLC account to maintain the separation? I'd start paying from the llc. The bank doesn't care if the check clears or the ACH goes through. They don't care where the money comes from. So. But just for, you know, for good bookkeeping purposes and for. To keep the expense in the llc, which is good for your liability protection and asset protection, I would start having it paid from the llc.

Okay. Love it. All right, question here from Michelle. This is a Fast one says my parents are setting up a special needs trust for my sibling. God bless you. That's a, it's such a tough situation for some of you though. Don't know what that maybe implies. A special needs trust is for someone that can't care for themselves either physically or mentally or both and they just need help. So let's think of someone with, you know, low functioning autism where they're going to be just with mom and dad or family for life. And so a special needs trust is a type of trust that holds money for them to take care of them when mom and dad pass or family members pass. Because a lot of people their biggest stress is who's going to take care of this child. And it's just I can't. I talk to these clients all the time and I feel their pain but I haven't lived it and it just seems so overwhelming. So God bless you for what you're trying to do to help the sibling. The question is this sibling received Section 8 housing. The for some of you that don't know what that means, that's government assistance where they pay the rent for the tenant in the house based on income levels. Is it possible to purchase a residence with the trust and have the Section 8 funds continue to pay for renting this property? This will give her a stable place to live and a steady influx of money to the trust. Well, you're actually bringing up two different issues. The first issue is can a sibling get Section 8 benefits while being the beneficiary of a special needs trust? The answer is generally yes. But you have to make sure the special needs trust is very, very carefully crafted. We've got an attorney in our office, Kristen who is our kind of estate planning specialist and she's fantastic. I would make an appointment with her. They're a little extra work. They're a standalone trust for that child that has special needs. But yes, they can get Section 8 housing. The concern is on a second issue is section 8 housing is kind of an equation based on several factors of the income level of the person getting the assistance, the value of the property, where it's located. Not an expert in this area, but could the trust go out and buy a million dollar home and sibling get Section 8 housing? Probably not. So I think you're going to have to take into account what type of home the trust buys which is a separate issue from the Section 8 qualification in and of itself with the special needs trust. So keep in mind there's two issues there in my opinion and get legal support. Absolutely. In the process, but I think you're headed in the right direction. Anything you'd add to on that?

No, I skipped Michelle's question there because I didn't know I didn't have a solid answer. So I appreciate you, you know, taking the stepping up, taking a shot at it. Yeah. I left it for you.

You're welcome. I appreciate that.

Well, do you want to hit some of these crypto questions? Kim and Terry have a similar question. If you'll indulge me. I'd love to.

Yes, yes. And I love crypto, so let's do it.

All right. Okay. This is Kim says, I'd like to invest more in crypto. I have an HSA money and some Roth IRA money. Is it better to start two new LLCs for each classification of money so I can continue annual contributions through two self directed accounts or can I combine the two into one llc? Let me say first on crypto, keep in mind we now have our crypto IRAs, which you can use an HSA or Roth IRA for. And we'll open a crypto account right at the account level, no LLC required. Okay. So that's probably what I would look at in your situation, Kim. Particularly since unless you have a lot of money in the HSA and Roth, I just do the crypto accounts. They're going to be faster and easier. No LLC to set up. You'll save the cost there. Now let me say this in general to anyone looking to do crypto. I don't like the multi member LLC for crypto because you're going to need to do a partnership tax return. And so let's say, Kim, you did an llc, which you can do and you could do we still have the checkbook IRA LLC or just the IRA llc, essentially where you can do a separate brokerage account for crypto. You know, you could go buy the more exotic crypto coins that Gemini doesn't offer. Who's the crypto exchange we use right now with our IRAs, but the LLC? Keep in mind, if you have your HSA and Roth in it, that LLC is gonna have a partnership tax return each year. There's no tax due, but you gotta file a return. And second, when you want to put more money in, as you indicate in your question, you're gonna have if The HSA owns 60% and your Roth IRA owns 40 next year you can only put money in that matches that 60, 40. So if you're getting 10 grand in total, you're going to throw in six from the HSA four from the Roth. Otherwise you can't get the money in. You're kind of stuck at those percentages. So I like the multi member LLC for real estate. Buying a property or something where the purchase price requires you to put a certain amount of money in and then that LLC is just going to grow in value, it's going to get rent, the property is going to go up. It's clean and easy. But if you're looking to make annual contributions to your Roth and HSA every year and then put them into the llc, and then that LLC is just going to buy bitcoin and crypto, which doesn't you can do in separate trading accounts with each account already. You don't need to combine it to be able to buy one bitcoin, just buy a percent of a bitcoin, you know what I mean? So I'd probably look without skipping the LLC in your instance, Kip.

Okay, I'm going to take a different point of view.

Okay.

There's two sides to every coin. Fair enough. I think I'd like multi member.

The bitcoin is a block. How many, how many sides is that? 6. Oh, yeah, there's like a Rubik's Cube.

Like a Rubik's cube.

So how many blockchain? You know, I just like to think of the.

Okay, anyways, here's why I would say everybody out there. I would not be too critical of the multi member llc. Now, what I've liked it for, and our family has done this, you might want to invest as a family. And it's true, each account holder, like, let's say you've got three or four family members and yourself. So there's five people and you all put in $2,000. Now you've got 10 grand. If you're going to do a variety of investments, maybe some crypto, maybe a little gold or silver or palladium, maybe loan someone some money, maybe you're going to buy a little stock, but you're going to invest as a family and you want to use it as an opportunity to train your family members, have family meetings together, really teach the concept of money management and financial literacy, which I've done with my kids. We have an LLC where all of our Roth IRAs are owners, and I was going to say equal owners, but my wife and I own a smidgen more.

But.

But I love it. Now, yes, you got to do a tax return, but you got to do a tax return for a multi member llc for real estate. Anyway, you got a multi Member llc. So you can invest as a group and you have one wallet rather than eight wallets or six wallets. And it's in the name of the llc. And it might be a little easier to work as a family together and you're not all doing your individual research and stuff. But I like Matt's point. There's pros and cons to both, but don't discount it entirely. Look at what the goal is of your family and what the long term goal is too. Because if you're going to do additional contributions in a real estate llc, you have the same pro rata contribution paying ups. I have a lot of clients that say, let's form an LLC together, let's all throw in our money and then cool, leave it alone. Let's grow it next year, contribute to a different Roth, you know, and, and we can do something over there differently. So I, I don't think it's completely crazy.

Yeah. So yeah, you could, I mean I, you know, there's not a right or wrong way to do it. It's just which way do you want to do it? Which works best for you? You know, do you do well with the llc? You understand the constraints of it and the benefits of it. So I think there's, there's definitely pros and cons. It depends on what coins you want to do. If you want to buy like XRP or some of the coins that are dogecoin or something like that, you're not able to do that on Gemini through our crypto IRA options. You'll need to do the LLC too anyways, so. Or if you want to hold the storage devices, like if you want a hard wallet or you know, like some, some of the questions here, like you want a hard wallet, like a tracer or something that you actually have possession of the keys to the crypto, you'll need the LLC structure too. Okay. Terry had this question here on this too. Says I hold crypto personally and my says I hold bitcoin personally in my self directed Roth Ira and in my solo 401k. Okay. Love it. Terry. In order to use an offline hardware wallet, can I create separate accounts on my ledger Nano X and have the funds from all three accounts non mingled on the same device? Or do I need to buy three separate hardware wallets? This is one where there's really no guidance from the irs. But I think the safe route is a separate hardware wallet. I know you can have separate accounts and you're going to need definitely do that. Of course, for those Different. Your personal crypto, your Roth IRA crypto, your solo K crypto. Okay, Those are gonna be three separate accounts, and I would want three separate physical. If you're doing, you know, an actual hardware type wallet, I would do them on separate ones. I know you could put them on the same hardware wallet and not mingle them even. But I just. There's a question there, I think of the irs, of, well, who's covering the cost of those? That hard wallet, who bought that? Did you buy that personally? Did the Roth buy it? Either way, it's a problem when it's used to store the other crypto. And so until the IRS gives guidance on stuff like this, which maybe never, my advice is going to be keep them separate in every way. Don't give them an inch. Don't give the IRS an inch to invalidate this. Because if you're doing this with your Roth or solo K and you've had a lot of gains in this, you know, trying to keep it simple on one hardware wallet, I think while it will save some cost, I just don't think it's worth it. I don't think it's worth the risk. Okay.

I love it. Okay, a question from Ryan. He says, is it true that George Clooney and Brad Pitt got into a yelling match at an LA party recently?

Is Ryan Reynolds asking, which one?

Who?

Ryan?

Ryan Hill? It just says Ryan. I'm presuming it could be Ryan Reynolds because he knew we would have the answer. So I went to the Star.

He listened to the show.

Yeah, I went to the Star, the most authoritative resource on true news. And apparently it is true. Brad felt stabbed in the back. The Truth About George and Angie who

thought

and Sandra Bullock begs them to end the feud. Now, I don't know what Sandra got in the mix for, but yeah, how

did they throw her in there?

I don't know. She got stuck your nose in it. But okay. No, Ryan's question was, which is a much boring. More boring question is how do you pay a foreign VA through an S corp and use it in expense? Now, everybody using these little acronyms throws me off sometimes because we had KD and the okc and I'm like, freaks. The okc. Oklahoma City. And I. Apparently it is if you live in the Oklahoma area, live in the okc.

Sorry, is that Common Durant? I thought that was Kevin Durant. Or is that Kevin Durant who's Oklahoma City okc? Okay, I know he, he's. He doesn't. He's in Brooklyn now. I Think so. That's not him.

Yeah, yeah. Apparently Corey's telling me. Shut up. You're sounding stupid. Okay, now we do need to talk about our March Madness brackets at some point today too. But VA I believe he could be talking about a veteran living foreign. A Veteran of the U.S. military services Living abroad in a foreign jurisdiction. Now, I want to say this to everybody. I've done it. It's very common with some of the websites and applications out there. Oh, my gosh. The one that I love just is escaping me right now.

Upwork, Fiverr or Elance or.

Yeah, Fiverr. Yeah, I use Fiverr for all my business needs. No, Upwork and Elance legit. Yeah, they. They merge Elance and Upwork. But I've hired people around the world to do web work, marketing work, digital design, audio work. So it's very common. So don't think of everybody out there. Don't think Ryan's crazy. He's paying someone foreign abroad to do work for his business. Does he get a write off? Absolutely. Now, does Ryan have to 1099 this individual in Malaysia or Australia or the UK? No, they're not a U.S. now, they're. If they're a foreign VA, they're a U.S. citizen. So you might have to actually issue a 1099 to a U.S. citizen living abroad, working for a U.S. company in the U.S. but they were living abroad. That's quite technical. But the point is you get a write off. And so when you pay a web designer in a foreign country to help you with your business and your website, just keep good records, keep a good receipt, pay for it with your business, you get a write off and it's legit. Don't be laundering money for the cartel or anything crazy. Just pay your bills, keep a good receipt, you're off to the races.

Oh, man, I'm dying for Ozark to come back.

Ooh, they're talking about another season.

Yes. There's supposed to be another season coming up, so.

Wow. I was thinking of Sicario too. That's a good one.

Oh, yeah, yeah, the movie. That was a movie, right?

Yeah, that was a movie.

That was a good one.

Yeah, yeah. So everybody out there, you're good paying foreign investors. Foreign people. I'm not going to use investors. Foreign vendors.

Wow.

I think we're through our website questions and we're probably coming up on our time stoppage here. I've got some Instagram questions. Can I throw one at you? All right. Okay. I'm going to just throw one at you that I know you're going to answer very well. Okay, this is Chris Allen. Hannah is the handle. Can you only self direct your 401k if it's through your own business?

Yes. You have to have a business to have a solo 401k.

So I think you could be asking something different. Let me rephrase. Let me say it again. I'm going to read it directly. Can you only self direct your 401k if it's a 401k through your own business?

Oh, okay.

That's what I think he's asking.

Okay. All right, let me say how you can self direct to help answer this. Okay, let's say you have a 401k at your day job. Okay. You work at Dunder Mifflin. Toby got you signed up on the 401k. You got your account, all right, You've been investing it and you're like, ah, I don't want to buy mutual funds, any of these crap mutual funds anymore. I want to go buy real estate or crypto or invest in a startup or something. Okay, well, The Dunder Mifflin 401ks probably got you locked down while you're still an employee there. If you're still working there and you're not retirement Plan age of 59 and a half, you're locked down in your company 401k. Well, how can I self direct, Matt? Okay, well, you can have a self directed IRA, but if you're wanting to use those $401 where you still work, you're gonna have to quit that job or wait till you hit retirement plan Age 59 and a half till you can roll the money out. So either you quit or you hit retirement plan age and you can roll those dollars out to a self directed

IRA or call the CEO, CEO of the company and tell him he's an idiot or she's an idiot. And to change broker dealers, that will allow you to self direct. Now they will. The broker dealer will claim the sky is falling. This is illegal. You can't do it. No one can do it. And make everybody feel stupid and push and demean everybody into not leaving their broker dealer with the 401k. Yeah, but that is an option.

That is an option. Now you could also, let's say you, you have a side business, a business on the side. You can have your own business and create your own solo 401k where you create your own 401k plan even though you got a day job with a 401k. You can have your own 401k plan in your own business. And that 401k you can make new contributions to from the income in your small business, your small side hustle, whatever it may be. And then that solo 401k could be self directed. So most of our clients who are self directing have rolled over dollars from old employer 401ks or they've just had large IRAs or they start with from scratch with a new contribution, 6,000 bucks and a Roth IRA and let it add up a little bit until you have enough to do a self directed investment or they're self employed people that can do a solo K or even SEP ira.

So I will add a caveat in Matt's example that if you have a day job and a side business and you want to go open a solo 401k, love it. You have to have an earned income. It can't be like a rental property. Has to have earned income enough to fund the 401k. Number two, always play in the match, get the match and then get the hell out. So if the company at your day job at Dunder Mifflin is going to match up to 3% or 4% or 5, which equates to $6,000, put in your 6 at work, get the 100% match. That's 100% return on your money. Even if you don't like your investments, can't beat that. Get the match, then the remaining 13,500, go over to your solo and make sure you earn at least $13,500 there. So you can defer it all on a 401k. The last point I would make is this. This only works if you have less than 50% ownership without any other family involved in the Dudner Mifflin organization. If you're a majority owner In Dunder Mifflin 50% or more, you're going to have a hard time setting up a solo on the side. So you've got to make sure. Now you can be an owner, but you're going to have to be a minority owner with no other prohibited parties in a block having more than 50% ownership.

So yeah, if you're just regional manager, you don't have ownership in the business, then you can do this. Yes, I love it.

Okay, now a couple non IRA questions here real quick. John. John AK Chilagi says, do I need to go to law school after I get my cpa? Well, John, I think that would be a very smart move if I say so myself.

One that's done it there's very few people who have done that, taken the double punishment and done that.

Yeah. I will say this in law school, and this was my experience, and I think this is national averages. In a loss class, a graduating law school class of 100 law students, let's say you're going to have maybe three, four that are going to specialize in tax and even haven't go on for an LLM or have a CPA to begin with. You're going to be a spotted white leopard dude. And I was very grateful to be quite sought after for the only time in my life because being a nerd finally paid off. I was Michael Anthony hall at all the dances. Girls would just walk off while I was dancing, pulling all my moves. Sixteen candles. Thank you. But finally I graduated from law school and people were calling me. I'm like, hey, I've got a popular now.

So anyway, I think now they want to know what you think. Now they're like, just one more question. Can I ask a question?

I can't go anywhere and I'm grateful. Grateful for what? The career I've had. Okay, Matt, I will ask you another non Ira question.

Okay.

Okay. This is a tricky one. So I'm gonna. We'll probably both have to comment because it is a little awkward. Okay. I think this is a second language person that is using an app to convert some language here. So I'm gonna kind of summarize their question. This is Elaine, and I'm gonna assume that's a female. Says. She says, I have an S Corp with nine cars. Now that's a big family or a big situation. It's funny, when I meet my New York City clients, I was out to lunch with a woman that was like, I haven't had a car in 15 years. I'm like, what? And I go, I own five cars. She's like, what? I go, I've got three kids. I have a car. My wife has a car and three kids. They all have to have a car. They do, yeah, you can. There's no public transportation where I live. I mean, put your thumb out and hope for a ride. I mean, that's it, you know? And she's like, it was just two different worlds. But anyway, Elaine says she has nine cars. Can I deduct miles on my 1040 as a car expense? Can I use separate cars for business versus personal? And I'm going to just say in general, Elaine's trying to write off her vehicles in her business and just needs a little help. So what would your Thoughts be. And I'll kind of add a few words too, maybe.

Okay. I think, Elaine, you're doing it wrong. Oh, wow.

Okay.

Let me just start there. Let's back up on how I would approach it. First of all, if you have cars for personal use, those should not be involved with the S Corp at all. That, that's a problem. Don't have the table. Yeah, yeah, take those off the table. Second, for tax purposes, it doesn't matter, okay, Whether you put it in the S Corp or it's in your personal name, if you're using it for business, you're going to have be able to take business expenses for it, whether you're taking actual or you're taking mileage. Okay. So good for taxes. Don't give a leg.

Don't worry about ownership. I'm going to say what, Matt, if I just add that. So I like. Number one, take all personal vehicles off the table. Number two, I like what you said. Use it for business, but don't worry about ownership. It's use that matters. I like that.

Exactly. Exactly. And the last consideration is I can see it being in the S Corp. And I like that if it's a business vehicle, you know, primarily business and for liability purposes. Now, maybe you're a delivery business. I don't know what, what this is or what your business is, but then I like that, okay, if something happens, the car's out driving and maybe you have employees that drive these vehicles. I, you know, I don't know that you're driving all of them yourself, but you know, something happens. We want the lawsuit contained in the business. We want workers comp there. Of course, make sure you'd have that. And then we'd also want insurance from any claim through the business liability. If they're going to sue anyone, they got to sue the business. They can't sue you personally. So I would focus on that for liability purposes, though.

Okay. I like it. I'm going to add a fourth consideration. I like Matt. I'm going to call Matt's number three for asset protection, if possible. And they're exclusively used in the business. I'd go and put them in the business. What the heck, it's not going to hurt. Especially delivery vehicles. I like what Matt said. Yeah. Number four, your next consideration is, okay, personal or out, I'm using them for business. I decided on ownership. Now comes the question, do you do actual or mileage? And you can use a different method for every car, but once you choose a method, you're stuck with that method. For that vehicle's life while you own it. In some situations, doing actual, which means depreciation, fuel, repairs, maintenance is a good idea. In other situations, mileage is better. Now just think about that for a minute. What would be, hypothetically, the criteria that would make one better than the other? Well, if I have a low cost vehicle and I'm burning a bunch of miles, mileage is going to be better. Because if I take actual ride, it's going to suck. And if I'm. It's a delivery vehicle, it was cheap, it was just out there on the road. It works, but we're beating the crap out of it. Mileage is better. Oh, but then the executive car or executive SUV or executive truck, hauling supplies, fewer miles, nice dinners, nice lunches, schmoozing clients. Now, actual could make a lot more sense. Fewer miles, bigger value, maybe higher weight. I have an article that just came out in January. I updated every year on the best auto deduction strategy for 2021, and I actually list seven rules of thumb. Now, I just gave you two of the rules of thumb, but there's five more. Is it electric? Is it way more than £6,000? Are you leasing? You know, so there's all these little variables. So I think, Elaine, you're on. You brought up a very, very important topic that a lot of clients don't think twice about, and they let their accountant decide for them. People, this is your ship. You're driving it. And don't let your accountant push you around. Read an article on it. It's not going to kill you. And then when you meet with your accountant, you're going to be like, well, what the hell? That sounds like a dumb idea. And your accountant's either going to work with you or get mad and you're going to fire them because they're not in charge. You are. Where's the pen? I got to drop a pen. I'm going to drop my car keys. There we go.

Oh, auto deductions.

Yeah, dude, that was sweet. Drop my car keys. Dude, that was sweet.

Yeah, for the auto deduction. Well, yeah. Wow. You know, I. This. I love the Open Forum podcast, and I learned something. It's good for me to brush up on some of these topics. I appreciate all of your genius answers, Mark. I think it was really a pot of gold today of knowledge that was shared. Or maybe it was a pot of bitcoin, if you will, that was shared today. What would you rather have, a pot of bitcoin or a pot of gold?

Oh, I would take. Depends on the weight or volume we're talking about, because bitcoin's a lot more valuable than a pound of gold right now. Well, no, that's true. A pound of gold. I think it's trading for about 45 grand. Let's ask Siri. How much is a pound of gold worth today? Siri's going to tell us. The answer is about 8.01 times 10 to the negative.

4 Troy.

Oh, what the heck.

It gave me the.

It gave me the British pound price. Oh, well, there we go. So. So be it.

Well, well.

But that would be it. That. You know, what's bitcoin trading today? We should do a little, I don't know, market thing.

60 or something recently.

So pound gold value today? Let's find. We're gonna find out right now. We can't leave our listeners hanging. Okay. Price of gold. Three days ago, it was $1754 per troy ounce. $1754 times 16. Okay. I found this. $28,060.

That.

Right. 16 ounces. Pound 1754 for gold.

20,000. 20,000 price.

Okay. And I'm just looking at all these cool gold things, and I can buy these in my Roth IRA.

This is Bitcoin being at 57,000 right now.

So I have a feeling a bitcoin is smaller than a pound of gold. Yeah, you had to think about that one, didn't you?

Sorry. Definitely. Definitely easier to carry around. So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Per ounce, per kilo.

Thanks, everybody. A kilo. Listen to this.

A kilo is $56,393 of gold. Mm. Oh.

So one bitcoin is basically one kilo. The only people who refer to things in kilos, though, are drug dealers.

They're weird. Yeah.

Drug dealers and weightlifters. I don't know who refers to anything.

Pretty much. Pretty much drug dealers and anyone that doesn't live in the U.S. right.

That's true.

No, we had a guy on our show. It was pretty interesting, folks. We had a guy on our show that said, do you want me to show you a pound of gold? And we were like, yeah. And so on the video, he held up a pound of gold, and it was the size of my cell phone. Pound of gold. It was just because it's so heavy, per. It's very dense. For those that have chemistry class and you're. If you haven't watched Breaking Bad and understand the periodic table, gold is very heavy per its mass. And so anyway, it was. It was the size of a cell phone. I thought that was very interesting.

Interesting. Okay.

All right.

Well, thanks everyone for the questions. Remember, you can always submit your questions@mainstreetbusiness.com there's a button that says submit a question. It's right in front of your face there. Mainstreetbusiness.com if one floats into your head and you're like, oh, this would be good for the podcast, just throw it in there. We'll get to them. That's the nice thing about this. Yeah, they're listed in there and you can see Mark and I hit all the questions that were pending in there. Exactly.

It could be Lady Gaga and the shooting and dog napping horror.

Okay, for next next open forum, come back for that story. Mark will bring us up to date.

Thanks, everybody. We appreciate you. Hope you had fun and we gave you a little sugar with the medicine so it went down very easily today. Love my partner Matt Sorensen. See everybody next.