Self-Directing Special! DIRA PODCAST LIVE

All right,

Welcome everyone to the Directed IRA podcast with yours truly, along with Mark J. Kohler. We are streaming live, by the way, so if you're catching the recording, just know this was live and we might pop in some lives on the Directed IRA podcast. Who knows?

Yeah, this is live and uncut. I mean, Howard Stern, eat your heart out. I mean, of course we're not going to get an E rating. We, you know, I don't know how you talk about self directed IRAs and get an E rating. That would be, that'd be quite the

feat, little backdoor Roth. Little, you know, a little sexual innuendo there. That always seems to do it for us, unfortunately.

Yeah.

Because we have had an episode E rated and I'm pretty sure Mark J. Kohler was to blame.

Yeah, yeah, we've got already people dialing in live here on YouTube. Want to say thanks for everybody catching this live. Don't go anywhere. For the next hour we're going to be answering your questions about retirement accounts, self directing them, investing them in what you want. What are the rules? What are my boundaries? So many Americans don't realize they have so much more opportunity to use their IRA accounts in creative ways. Buying real estate, cryptocurrency, doing notes, doing wholesaling, fix and flips, rehabs, rental properties, small business. Help your brother start a new landscaping business. Help your sister open a bakery or let your brother in law open a bakery and your sister in law run a landscaper. We're, we're non denominational here. We're no judge, no judging or like,

or like one of our clients yesterday on our sister podcast, the Main Street Business podcast, who has a barber shop business and a lawn care business. The guy cuts hair and lawn. I mean that guy's, you know, you could loan your IRA to any one of those or invest in them.

Yeah, yeah.

Here's a cool one though. I, so one of the fun things I kind of look at, I mean I'm looking at the transactions here, you know, every day at Directed IRA and we'll have, you know, 50 transactions a day sometimes. And here's a quote, I had a client investing in a Mexican professional soccer team last week. Super cool. It's investing in a Delaware LLC that owns 50% of a professional legit Mexican soccer team. Football team, but you know what I mean? Wow, you could do that. Your IRA could own a professional Mexican football team.

Yeah, that's cool. Should you say Mexico or Mexican? I, I don't know.

Yeah, Mexican.

I have been learning in Spanish. I have been learning Spanish. It's one of my bucket list items. So I won't, I won't break into Spanish here at this moment. Now, everyone, real quick, I'm going to start answering questions. This is the book, this is the seminal book that you need to have when you are listening to this podcast or watching us on YouTube. It is titled the Self Directed IRA Handbook, 2nd Edition, written by my amazing co host, Matt Sorenson. And I will personally autograph it for you if you would like. It's a little added perk, takes it to the next level. Okay, I'm going to take a question or two here online real quick. We got flights with shame. Matt's going to be fielding questions from our website. That's the Directed IRA podcast. You can get it there at directed ira.com leave questions any time of day or night. And when we do the open forum, we will fill those questions. Matt's going to be pulling from those. I'm going to be pulling from our live audience. Flights with Shane asks, how are taxes handled? If I get paid in crypto to my business for a project or work, I've done well. Flights with Shane. You would be interested to know that our law firm, one of the few law firms in the country, you can pay us in cryptocurrency for our services and you can even buy a ticket to the Crypto Tax Summit being held later this month in Phoenix and live online on January 29th. So, Shane, we know what you're talking about. So if any of you want to get paid in crypto first, you treat it just like USD. Whatever the US Dollars are that day, that's what you're claiming on your tax return is income for the day or income for the service or the plan. Now, if there are some new laws on the books that if you are paid in cryptocurrency in over $10,000, there's a disclosure statement that's required to be filed as an 8300 that doesn't come out until 2023. There's also 1099 rules that are rolling out. That's where you've heard about the new Venmo tax or whatever. There's no tax on Venmo. The government's just saying no more cash transactions on Venmo hiding under the table. We want to hear from Venmo on what the hell's going on out there. So anyway, take money for services in crypto cash. I don't care how you get paid, the yen, the peso, whatever you claim it in. US Dollars. That's your income for the service or project. Put it on your books. And so, Shane, you're in business. Go for it, baby. Loving it. All right.

Okay. Let's go to the questions on directed ira.com again. You can do directaira.com podcast. Submit a question there. We've had a lot of questions in here, which is awesome.

Okay, we're going to try to do good. Let's go fast today. Sometimes we dive deep on these questions. Let's just try to answer them quickly. Sometimes we can't explain them all. I'm notorious for that, Matt. I'm pointing the finger at myself. So you pull a question, answer it. I'm going to move on. We got a bunch online already.

All right, I got an awesome question here from James. He said in your recent podcast you talked about a woman who purchased precious metals using her Checkbook LLC in a self directed ira. The IRS sanctioned her because she was storing her investment personally instead of using a third party custodian. It seems that the same argument could be used against using a self directed Checkbook LLC with a hardware wallet to self custody your crypto assets instead of a third party custodian wallet such as Coinbase. What are your thoughts about this? Love it. James, you are thinking about it. Other people liked your question too, on there, which is. Which helps me know we should answer this. Couple thoughts, quick thoughts. First, if you have a hardware wallet, do you have the crypto? It's still on a blockchain. Okay. The crypto is still on a blockchain. You just may have the private keys to access the crypto. So there's a distinction from actually thinking physically holding like a bar or a coin of precious metals. So that's the first thing. I think there's a big distinction there. That's important right there. So I'm not as concerned, although there could be a little risk. I get your point. But I think if the tax court could understand this, the crypto is still on a blockchain. The second distinction I would say is the tax code has special sections in it for storage of precious metals for retirement accounts. There's not a special section for storage of crypto owned by your ira. So there was some specific rules related to precious metals and storage of it in an IRA that also kind of doomed that account and that person in that case. So great question. Lots of analogies I think you can make between the two. But I do think there's. Those are two big distinctions.

Okay. And I'll add this. If any of you want to buy gold or silver with your ira, you, you can, you take your ira, you form an LLC and you can buy all sorts of precious metals. We've been doing it for years here@directedira.com the case that came down was some, I won't call anybody any names. Took the gold bars that they had bought with their IRA and said I'm going to put them under my mattress. Well, the IRS says you got to store what the LLC owns with a third party. You can't use your own house to hold the gold and silver that your LLC owned by your IRA owns. So yeah, Ira LLCs are still cool. Owning gold and silver, still cool. Ira LLC is frickin rock. Just don't put the damn gold under your mattress. Let a third party hold it.

And I'll say most people who buy precious metals just because you're going to store it at a third party custodian like another trust company or a bank, let's say they don't use the LLC, you can, but there's IRAs is going to buy this storage, the precious metals and have it stored. You can use the llc, but just know you can do it with the IRA direct too.

Love it. Good comment, Matt. Okay, moving along here. Someone said, how do we contact your office? I've called and left a voicemail. I've left email on your website. Help me. I cannot get through. I am so sorry. We are absolutely swamped. It is true. The great resignation around the country has created the great formation. There are so many more entrepreneurs in the country and we are, we've been out there for 20 years trying to build a platform and a voice and our phones are now ringing off the hook and so please be patient everybody. Now I don't know if you're trying

to get a hold of your ira. Yeah, direct your ira. You can, you can get.

I'm coming to that. I'm going to say.

Okay, I know pause there.

I know there was a pause.

I had a line, I thought that was where I was supposed to come in with my line.

I was just gonna say now we don't know if you're talking about the law firm, the accounting firm or the trust company with your IRAs. Now a directed IRA we've been able to scale up and we have plenty of people that can man the phones and you can get through. Go to direct calm. There's even a chat pop up box that comes right up. When you get to direct@ira.com, schedule a new call.

Just schedule a call at directed area account. If you have or you immediately you can get your account rep for free.

Yep. If you're calling the accounting firm, we do have a significant wait list for tax prep for last year. I would say get on the wait list for next year even and just use your current accountant. Use us as a resource to help get you through the tax prep process. If you're not extremely confident in your current CPA firm, we'll do our best to help from this. From the sidelines. If you're calling the law firm, please don't leave a voicemail. Just call back a couple times during the day. You will get someone. We do have a loop. You should never be kicked to voicemail constantly. You should be able to get someone. Please call the law firm. 888-801-0010 Corey, could you put that in the chat? 888-801-0010 We've got a great law firm staff, new attorneys. We've got a couple attorneys here in the house right now during this podcast that Katie and Steph. You can get on their schedule in the next two to three weeks easily. So okay. Crash Burn 5150 first question, can I avoid taxes paid into my grandkids HSA accounts? Now everybody out there, we love Health Savings accounts but I don't know. Yeah, you cannot contribute to someone's HSA and take the HSA contribution deduction. It's only on your own HSA or your spouse's HSA or your family HSA if you have dependents living in your household. Now it is true, I would say if your grandkid meets the rule of as a dependent in your home on your tax return. And there's special rules on when a family member becomes a dependent of yours. So if you're a grandparent taking over the raising of a grandchild because you're child might be struggling or passed away or in rehab or who knows what. Heaven forbid. But if you are a grandparent taking care of a grandchild in your household and they are on your health insurance, it's still going to be a family hsa. I just. But they could be involved in that way. But you're not going to be able. No one out there, you're not going to be able to contribute to a grandkids HSA directly. They would have to be on your policy and your family HSA and you might be able to provide some benefits for them. So it's kind of a nuanced answer. What I do love and Matt and I Love. This is a Coverdell set up what's called an education IRA for your grandkids. We have a specific procedure for this where grandparents can put the money in to a grandchild's covered LHSA. I'm sorry, covered L. IRA and the parents can still be the investor or guardian of the child and handle the account. So it's a wonderful way to go. So if you have grandkids, don't worry about hsa, worry about their college account. It's called the Coverdale.

Yeah, yeah. We have a separate podcast on the Coverdale. Keep in mind you don't get a deduction on coverdell contributions. It's 2,000 a year. But it is can grow, grow and no tax come out for education expenses.

Matt, viewer wants to know, can they get your book on Kindle?

Yes, it's on Amazon. Grab it.

There's Amazon.

Yeah, you can get it on in paperback or Kindle on Amazon. Also on my website you can get the paperback. All right, let's go to Marcia's question, which I love here. This is an interesting one. Hi, Matt and Mark, love the show. Thank you, Marcia. Can I buy judgments with my IRA on a contingency where I judgment a creditor unless I'm able to collect on the judgment assuming I have no financial return outside of the Iraq. Okay, let's talk about that, Marcia. Then you got a second question here, which is great too. I love what you're thinking. Yes, your IRA can buy judgments. In fact, one of the most common investments. Well, a very common investment I should say is people who buy non performing notes. Like they buy loans that are defaulted or maybe judgments out there that someone has and then they go to try and collect on them. Now one thing you have to be careful about here on let's say trying to collect on this judgment. I don't want you going to be the debt collector. Okay. You're gonna hire a debt servicing company. So let's say, let me just give the note example. If I'm buying non performing notes, these are loans that are in default. They're used typically mortgages, maybe they're first or seconds, doesn't matter. It could even be unsecured notes. But they typically what we see a lot of clients do is they're and the right way to do it, they're gonna hire a collection agency that goes and tries to collect on it or a service provider because I don't want you doing the work. So. And then you're going to pay obviously that debt service provider or you could Hire a third party, whoever it is, an attorney, someone, doesn't matter, just can't be you. So that's the first thing. The next question you have is would this be subject to ubit, considered an active business, possibly on the non performing notes? No. If you're collecting on notes, buying notes and collecting on them at. I don't see that. But probably on a judgment here where you're expending effort to collect on them, I could see there being a UBIT concern if you're doing a significant amount of those with the ira. But if you're just buying a judgment here and there with the ira, hiring a third party to go collect on it, you collect on it. I don't know that I'd see UBIT in your ira.

Okay, love it. Hey everybody, just to put that in perspective, if your IRA goes out and buys a rental property, no problem, but you can't be the landlord going over and collecting rent. Same concept if you buy a judgment from someone that owes. Well, yeah, yeah, we want you to

not get in the rent check. I just don't want you like putting on the tool belt or like everything but like.

Yeah, fair.

Okay, I got the check and I'm not depositing my personal account. I'm going to let it go right to the ira.

Yeah, okay, fair enough. Yeah, I guess if you have to take a baseball bat with you to go collect rent, that's now there's some service involved.

Crossing the line in several lines that's already illegal. That's, you know.

Yeah, I Love it. Sean. CPA. We have so many CPAs and attorneys that follow us. It's an honor. We're still out there learning every day, new trips, new tips and strategies and we're. It's an honor that any of you professionals out there watch and listen to the show. We really, really appreciate it. Hart sells heat and airs. Can we start a self directed IRA and fund it with four IRAs? Me, my wife, my two sons. Then we would have 2,800 to spend in the mining company. Now Hartzell, I got a couple thoughts on this. Corey, we're going to go screen for those watching on YouTube. We have a whiteboard here. If you're listening to this on the podcast, you can get over to YouTube and catch this podcast live on either Matt's channel or my channel at any time. Let's start with our trifecta, everybody. Right? This is our claim to fame. You've got your trust down here and you're 10, 40, married or single and on the left side, you're going to be doing your operations. You're going to be working for a W2 who knows what. When we come to talking about IRAs, we're going to be talking about the right side. This is the investment side of our lives. And so over here, let's say you have an ira, your spouse has a Roth, one of your kids has a Coverdell. And let's, for fun, we'll throw in another IRA for good measure. So you want to take four different retirement accounts. And again, they could be 401 s, Simples, SEPs, Roths, IRAs, HSAs, Coverdells, do not care. Any of those retirement accounts can all contribute whatever the dollars they have into an llc. And Hartsville says, I want to go out and do crypto mining. Oh, I love that. I have a crypto mine owned by several Roth IRAs of our family. We've formed a little family LLC with our IRAs and we're out doing crypto mining. So everybody, this could do real estate, it could do crypto mining, it could do a variety of things. Not a problem. My only concern with Hartzell is 2,800 bucks. Dude, there is no way you're even going to get a video card for 2800 bucks. Worth it. Plus you got to get the CPU. You're going to have to have a third party running the show for you. We got a three video card mine going for about 10 grand and it's given us about a 70 to 80% return this year. It's been phenomenal. Now you may say, well mark, you need 100 grand in there to really make it to some, you know, get things rocking. Well, that's fine. Some you might have 100 grand and you go out and buy three, four CPU units and put, get 20 cards and get rocking. It's up to you. But I think for $2,800, I'd probably go with a Gemini wallet. At Directed IRA, you guys can each have your own IRA account, have a Gemini app where you, you can just start buying crypto inside your IRAs. Some of you say, well, I don't like Gemini. I want, I want Kraken or I want Coinbase. Well, now you got to form an LLC. So with $2,800, I just keep it simple, use the buy the coins that Gemini offers. We have a fast tracked way to get an app. You can be buying crypto through Gemini within 24, 48 hours generally. But yeah, don't they have 60.

They have 60 different cryptocurrencies on there now to. Of course, they have the big ones. We have a separate podcast and webinar on all that and how to do it with the crypto wire. I think for the smaller, you know, under 10,000 accounts that want to do crypto, that's the best way to get in. But I'll say this too. Mark did say on your phone. There's a kind of a pro tip, though. Don't use the mobile app with your Gemini Trading account. It's a 1 and a half percent trade fee. Use the Active trader, which is desktop, which, it's an easy fee setting. You just do it on, on your desktop. It's on all of our guides and you're, you know, you get like as far as the Gemini fee, it's like 15 basis points. It's nothing compared to the, the mobile app. And that's for all. Even Coinbase.

You never told me that I've been trading on my app. What the hell? You know.

Did you read your onboarding email?

No, I did not. I didn't. I did not read my onboarding email. This is. I, you know, I would think my partner would take care of me on this. I, I'm, you know, see, I, I was on the pod.

Hey, I thought you knew.

Yeah, I thought you knew. Yeah, but I still like to check my little portfolio on my.

You can check it there. Do it all you want. Just don't buy and sell on there because you'll pay the higher fee.

Thank you.

Let me say this is, this is a tip for anyone doing crypto. Coinbase is the same. A lot of the crypto, the main, the big ones, it's a higher fee to use the mobile app. Most like Coinbase has Coinbase Pro, Gemini has Active Trader, and anyone can get it. You don't have to be a big shot. Anyone can get those and get the lower fee setting. You just, you're not going to get the easy, simple user interface on your mobile app. You're going to be on, it's going to look like a trader screen on your screen, which is kind of intimidating at first, but it's kind of cool. And, and the fees are lower.

Thanks, bud. Okay, now a break for our sponsor Recovery Rockstar. Can I have one, please? Out of the fridge, a cold one. Our producer, Corey White, always killing it here. Professional snowboarder on the weekend, videographer during the week. We love him and. All right, you got another one. I got some questions.

Yeah, I got Todd. I got Todd because Todd's got a great question that Floor lows. And it's my turn for a question. Don't.

Yeah. Oh, by the way, let me say this on YouTube, if any of you like another question, please heart it. I'm going to scroll to some of those that have more hearts than others, so that helps us. Don't repeat a question that someone else has kind of asked. Okay, Go ahead, Matt.

All right.

Okay.

Todd asked a question. He says with the IRA LLC. The LLC. Are the LLCs structured to allow additional owners in the future? I asked because I might like to start an LLC that will be owned by my HSA and my Roth, but may want to add other family members tax advantage accounts in the future and potentially uneven contributions to the multiple member accounts in future years. Okay, great question, Todd. No, so. Or I should say it depends. You can have an LLC that starts out with your HSA and your Roth. And let's say your HSA puts in five grand and your Roth puts in five grand. We're going to break up that. That ownership of that LLC. 50, 50. Okay. Your HSA put in five grand. Your Roth put in five grand. But if you're like, hey, Matt, six months later, I'm going to have my wife's Roth invest in, and she's going to put in five grand. Let's just change the ownerships to one third. One third? One third. You can't do that because we've got to move ownership from your HSA and your Roth over to your wife's Roth ira, and that's going to cause a prohibited transaction between all those accounts because now we're moving ownership from your health savings accounts and Roth to your wife's account, who is disqualified to you. And that would cause a privileged transaction for all of those accounts. So I would not recommend that. We got a special guest.

Yeah, special guest, man.

Do you guys. I mean, Steph gets on the camera, and Corey immediately cuts away from me.

I'm just like, yeah, I know. Well, all we heard was, you know, it was a Charlie Brown teacher took over. I don't know what happened. Okay. All right.

I hope you like my answer.

Yeah, no, it was good. It was good. Okay. This is Steph, one of our attorneys here at the office. You can schedule him. Now, she is a CPA as well, and she has been doing freaking tax returns for crypto traders. We recruited her to join the firm this year. Give me some love there. Boom. So it's like I said Yesterday, it's about 20 degrees in the studio, so she's got her sweater on, like, please Keep me warm. Okay, we have Katie come on camera here, too. We'll see. We've got these other attorneys in the office. We got a great question from Thomas and I thought Katie. I'm sorry, Steph here. Just referring to Katie across the room. Steph here. This is a good one. Do you want to read the question? Throw it out. Yeah.

So Thomas Bryant asks, when I do a crypto transaction, do I have to track the USD at the minute the transaction happens or just a value during the day? How close to the time do I have to be? And so that is a really intriguing question because a lot of times you don't realize that your software is actually tracking this for you. Your crypto wallet is tracking it for you. It has the timestamp and the valuation in there. Now, what we are currently looking at is what software are you going to use to prepare your tax return? And this is a really important question for anybody who experienced the situation last year where we had a lot of volatility and maybe you had a lot of transactions because you did your loss harvesting. So we're currently working with Taxbit. You basically go onto their website, you sign up for, they even have free accounts and it imports your transactions. You don't have to worry about the time of day, the USD, the value, it is going to put it in there for you and then it's going to give you an option to choose the optimized version for your tax return.

Love it. Now, one side note. Well, Steph's here. I know some of you are like, well, I'm over on the phantom wallet, or I'm over on this wallet and no one knows I traded or I did this or did that. You're trying to hide from the irs. I know. And not good. You will go to jail someday. If there's a question on the front page of your frickin 1040, what's it say? You love it. First question.

Yeah. It asks if you have any crypto assets. You have to declare this now. And it's a checkbox. So you can't just hand that responsibility over to your tax preparer. You sign that tax return saying everything is true on there. And when you don't check that box, you are, you're lying.

Now you know, did you just call someone a liar? Pants on fire. All right, Okay.

I mean, it's worth checking the box. It doesn't, it doesn't do you any harm. It's, it's, it's covering your assets.

Yeah.

Ooh, I like that. Covering your Assets. Yeah.

Okay, good save there.

Watch the E rating. Okay. No, I think that's okay. So in summary, I just want to say thank you. Good comment. And people, you may think the IRS is not going to find this, but there's something called the blockchain. There is a transaction record somewhere in the Metaverse universe, wherever, virtual or non virtual reality. And if you think you can hide from the IRS someday when they audit you three years from now and after you make a million dollars with your crypto, you're kidding yourself. So be careful. Report the damn income. Use taxbit.com or liking them. They're doing a great job with their software. They're going to be a sponsor, we hope. We're trying to finalize the deal with them on our January 29th tax summit. Gemini's already going to be there on board and we've got several other sponsors. This is legit, so people get the right software. Don't try to hide from the irs. Thanks, Jeff. All right. Okay, Matt, next question.

All right. All right. Adam asks, I'd like to buy a building or rentals with retirement accounts, trying to get and stay clear of privited transactions, but my roth only has 20,000. Can I bring in money also? Okay, great question. So in the real estate world, there's a lot of things you could do. And I've had lots of clients. Now these are savvy real estate investors that'll just start wholesaling at first with their Roth ira. So you could wholesale some properties, build up the balance before you go out and buy a rental. Another idea, partner with others. You got 20,000. Maybe there's another friend of yours or investor in real estate that's got some more cash that wants to throw in on a deal with you. Give them a piece of the piece, do an LLC together, break it up if you want. And there's ways that you can, you know, partner with other people. Now you can't partner with, you know, you can't like buy and sell between yourself, but it's also possible to partner with yourself. Okay, we could do an LLC that has your IRA as a partner and some of your personal funds or maybe your spouse's retirement account. Okay. That's called a multi member ira llc. We have a whole podcast episode that. And third, Adam, or I don't know, maybe this is fourth. I don't know. Other option I would throw out to you is, you know, maybe look at some other accounts. Maybe look at a solo K, which you can put more money in. You can put up to 58k in a solo K. I know the Roth IRA in particular, you can only throw 6 grand a year. So it does take a while to get a balance on it. But maybe consider some other accounts to have higher contribution amounts, such as the Solo 401K.

Okay, love it. A couple other questions here. PMX Production says, what happens if I didn't take a draw from my LLC? Single member. Last year I made about 20k. Everybody. If you have a single member LLC, whether you take a draw or not doesn't matter. It's going to go all in your schedule C tax return. You made money.

And we're talking not retirement accounts, right?

Yeah, we're not.

Sorry. Jump on this IRA llc.

I know, I know. You know what? Okay, let's clarify that. I'm sorry, I just see these questions and I want to go at them. And today is about retirement accounts. So I'm going to say this. I'll finish this question, clarify it. But if you have a question that's not crypto, sorry, not retirement plan related. We're going to probably bump that now today at 4:00 clock in about three hours if Matt's here. Great. I'll have some other attorneys with me maybe. We're going to be going live on YouTube one more time today at 4 o'.

Clock.

So if you'd like to catch us, we'll do any question then. But PMX says what happens if I didn't take a draw from my llc? A single member llc. Now we're if that's an IRA llc, the draw would go straight to your ira. Remember, you don't own the llc. Your IRA owns the llc. Now if you want to send money back to your ira, do it. That's a draw to the IRA which owns the llc. Now if you own an llc, people, you and you're just driving Uber, you're doing landscaping, you're doing consulting, you're doing whatever. If it's a single member llc, draws don't matter. It's a sole prop, a sole proprietorship. Money in, expenses out. Leave the money in the bank account, take the money, do not care. You're going to get taxed on whatever the net income is whether you take the money out of the LLC or not. And that's okay. That's a good thing. Matt, do you want to hit a 72T question? Okay, nevermind. Go ahead. You choose your question.

I want to get to Michelle's question. So Michelle says, I binged your podcast the past week. Thank you for the content. That's intermediate and can get to complexity. I've listened to so many others that, while quite good, don't go beyond the basics of setting up a self directed IRA or point out the ins and outs. So appreciate that she goes on, but basically she's saying she has questions about distribution planning and what to do. Her husband is looking to retire at 55. She's going to still work. They have an IRA LLC owned by three IRAs, two traditionals and one Roth. One of those traditionals is hers, one of the Roths is hers and the other traditional is her husband's. The LLC owns a rental property in Mexico. It's pretty sweet. Okay. Llc, there's a trust involved. Because Mexico, you have to have a trust if you're a non Mexican citizen involved. But it's for the benefit of the llc. The question was, I don't know what to do about distributions now or later. What happens with rmd? What other factors should I be considering? The goal is to keep the property, rent it, use it in our retirement years and allow it to pass it on to our children. All right, so let's, let's go over your options here. Now you've got three IRAs that own this LLC.

Okay, I'm going to put this on the whiteboard because we need some Pictionary going on here. I'm confused at everything you read. You're going to have to break this down to the average person as you build this. Okay, so we have an LLC owned

by three IRAs, three IRAs, one Roth and two Traditionals.

All right, keep going.

Wife owns a Roth and a traditional husband has a Traditional. Okay. Okay. And the LLC owns a rental in Mexico. Okay.

And the husbands is a Traditional as well. Okay.

Right, Yep.

So we're going to assume 33. 33. 33. Okay.

Yeah. Whatever the percentages are, doesn't really matter, but let's. We do want to work with some real numbers here.

Okay, cool. All right. And we have a rental in Mexico. See, I've been practicing my Spanish. I just want to say.

Yeah, yeah. And Chihuahua.

Gracias.

I got a good. If you want, I can do a pretty good Mexican accent if I like. Will watch Narcos, which is a great show. I need to watch Narcos for like five minutes and then I can get right into it.

You're losing listeners while you're talking. Keep going. Okay.

All right, so how do you plan for distributions? Now here's the hard thing, because those accounts all are owned by disqualified people. When you want to Put more money in the LLC or take money out of the llc. It's got to be pro rata based on the ownership. Now sometimes people will be like, well, but Matt, I have to take RMD on my husband's traditional account. He's 72 now, which is when you have to start taking distributions. But I've got my Roth in there, which doesn't have RMD. I'm only 65 or 50 or whatever. I don't need to take distributions. What do I do on my husband's. Well, we've got to get it out of the LLC because. And it's got to go pro rata. So if you. Your husband needs to take three grand this year to satisfy RMD because he's now 72, everyone's going to have to take three grand because they each own a third. So that is a clunky part of this type of multi member structure that you have here. Michelle, is, is there's. If you, you know, 10,000 is coming out of this LLC, you're gonna send 3,300 to each of those three accounts. So, okay, you know, and change, obviously, but. So there's some clunkiness to it, but that's what you should be thinking about now. You have plenty of time. Husband's only 55. He's not gonna need to worry about this till he's 72. But remember, any money coming out of this LLC, it's always got to come back to the IRAs based on their ownership percentage. You can't just send money to one of the accounts. Yeah.

Also, I will throw this out when husband down here in the right hand corner has to take a 72T distribution that's based on all of his IRAs and their total value. So your husband might have another IRA sitting over here, an old 401k that he could roll out. And by doing that, he can look at the overall picture and. And he could take money from this IRA to satisfy the 72T for this IRA that owns the LLC.

You just mean like RMD when he sits 72. When you're saying 72.

Oh, yeah, RMD. Sorry, yeah.

RMD. Yeah, that's a technical. 72T is a technical thing, but just. He's taking RMD at 72. Yeah, good point. If husband's got a, you know, a TD Ameritrade ira, does stocking take RMD from that one? And it can satisfy this one. Great, great. Yep.

So, okay, now I'm gonna hit two or three quick questions online. Thanks, everybody. Larry says New to your channel. What self directed IRA custodians do you guys personally use for your self directed accounts? Thank you for joining the and a lot of times we just assume and we shouldn't that some of you already know this but we are the founders of directed ira.com and dammit, I wanted those other questions right below him. Can you get back to him? Thank you. Sorry Corey.

Okay.

Directed Ira.com we were founders of this in the last five years with some other parties. We love Directed Ira. We tailored it to work cohesively with our law firm and accounting firm and so we, we think it's streamlined. It's right now it is. Gosh Matt, I don't want, I want to be careful what I say but one of the fastest growing with the best ratings in the industry. So check it out.

I think that's totally fair. Go check it. You go to the website, go to direct ira.com like Mark said. You can see our Google reviews, what our clients are saying about us. We've had significant growth and lots of happy clients and we just love Mark and I self direct ourselves. You know like we just love this. We've been working with clients for 10 or 20 years. We figured out the stuff that works and what people need to know and we have an amazing team too.

Okay, so directed ira.com now someone else asked or you still have a waiting list at your accounting firm. I need help. I need a consult. Now you can set up a consult and a review with Stephanie here to put together a plan for your taxes for the year. And if you're working on a self directed IRA llc, that's Katie's world. These ladies are specialists in different areas. You're going to be out about two to three weeks to get that appointment. But Stephanie's not going to do your tax return. The accounting firm does have a wait list but you can still get a strategy in a planning session and a trifecta built for you. So make an appointment with Steph on that for any of you working on an IRA llc, whether you're using directed IRA as your custodian or not, you make appointment with Katie. Katie's going to put together your IRA llc. Rob says if someone has created a life changing wealth in a crypto IRA LLC can IRS Rule 72t be applied so I can take out early distributions even if I'm not at retirement age. And the answer is yes. You can elect a certain amount, you can carve out a certain amount or a certain IRA and you can say I'm not 72 yet, but I want to start setting up regular distributions. Penalty free. You'll pay tax, Rob, but you can do that early in life by setting up a special election. And then you have to. There's calculations and how much you have to take every year. And then when you're 59 and a half, it's. You readdress it. But not a bad idea. I'm okay with that. If it's a Roth, it ain't happening. You're gonna have to wait on a Roth. But if it's a traditional ira, you're good to go. Matt. Yeah, go ahead, Matt.

All right. Jeremy asked a question. He says, I got a question about a self directed Roth 401k. Love those.

Okay.

And he's got a C Corp blocker.

Geez, Jeremy, I'm gonna, I'm gonna diagram this bad boy. So Corey put me on the whiteboard. Okay, go ahead.

Matt says does the taxes owed on this with the C Corp blocker.

Okay. When we're playing Pictionary, you gotta lay this out. There's people watch listening. So we restate what he's got. So he's probably got an S Corp. He has created a 401k. Keep going.

He's got a self directed Roth 401k. He's got a Roth account with the

solo K. So this little. So what I'm diagramming, everybody is on the left side. You've got your S corp that's created a Solo 401K more than likely. And the Solo 401K is like a beehive. It's got like a honeycomb. And this portion that I've colored in dark is going to be the Roth portion, where in a typical solo 401k, you're probably going to have some traditional money to the matching and things like that. But Matt, keep going. So he's taking this Roth portion of the Solo 401K.

You set up a C Corp blocker, which we usually will do. An LLC taxed as a C Corp, but you could do a C corporation just with a C Corp tax election. But generally LLC taxes a C Corp. Now his question is, do I pay the taxes? See, when you have a C Corp blocker, you're going to pay corporate tax on this. This is a strategy used to avoid ubit. We have prior podcasts on this. We can't get into the whole tax strategy. But for Jeremy's question, this is the structure. Okay? You're going to pay corporate tax, you're going to get out of ubit, the corporation, Jeremy, is who's going to pay the corporate tax? And his question is, can I pay for it personally? No, you cannot pay for it personally. I know you want to keep as much money in the Roth as possible. I love where you're going. But no, the taxes are going to be owed at the corporate tax level and that will deplete obviously investment value for the Roth. So now his follow up question was, what about paying for the corporate tax return?

Corey, go back up.

Does that need to come from the the Roth 401K or the C Corp essentially, or can I pay for that personally too? Yeah, that's a gray area generally, I would say. My advice would be the corporations to pay for that. There is an exemption to prohibited transactions for accounting, legal and plan administration fees, or account fees for your retirement account. Now this blocker, I don't know all the assets in there, but it could be deemed to be an investment asset as opposed to a function of the 401k. So whether you could rely on that exemption, I don't know. It's 4975D10 if you want to read it. But I'd say safe route. Just pay from the corporation for the corporate tax return.

Okay, I want to reiterate this a little bit of what Matt described for everybody and especially if you're on YouTube. The S Corp creates the Solo 401K. We have a Roth portion. What the Roth did was create not an llc, but the C Corp to avoid ubit, which we have prior shows on. So the C Corp is the one doing business, not the Roth 401K. That's why you create this entity. If you don't create the C Corp, you have to pay almost twice the amount of tax. And I use three examples where this would be important. If you're doing crypto mining in a Roth, you still have ubit. If I'm running a restaurant inside my Roth, I still have ubit. Or if I'm doing fix and flips, I would have ubit. The C Corp blocker cuts the UBIT tax in half, essentially. Listen to the podcast on that. I love this gentleman's questions. That's the picture. And if we were playing Pictionary, I think, I think we would have done pretty well, Matt.

Yeah, I think now that's pretty good. Yeah, I mean, we're pretty much an unstoppable force at Pictionary, so bring it on. Now, I just want to say this structure, if you're new, that's a little advanced that's not the typical structure. That's an exceptional situation. Most people are just going to have a regular, you know, easy llc. You don't have to worry about UBIT or corporate tax. Pretty straightforward. I do have a pretty sweet question from Robert, though.

Man, I've got three or four here. I'm dying. I want to hit Dave, Sophia, Chad and Iski. I'll do them quickly. After you. You go first. Go ahead. All right.

Robert said, my wife and I each have a self directed Roth that we set up and funded in 2021. And our Roth IRAs are 50, 50 partners in an LLC.

Okay.

We just discovered we went over the income limit for a Roth. Well, there's good news and bad news there, Robert. Congratulations. You made over a couple hundred grand a year. But he says our funds have been deposited in the LLC but have not been invested yet. How do we fix this? We each also have traditional IRAs all set up. A directed IRA in 2021. Okay. All right. You've got some time here, Robert. It's nice that it haven't been invested yet. It's just in the LLC bank account, I presume. So let me walk you through a few steps.

I've got an article on this, by the way. And Steph, we should update it because this is both you. This is a good one. And what, what he's talking about, everybody is, let's say you put money in a Roth. If you make too much money, you're not allowed to do that. That's what's happened here. And so you have to, if you know this in advance, you do a backdoor Roth which we have videos and shows on and that. But if for some reason you have a banner year and you didn't expect it, but you put the money in the Roth before the income hit. Now you've got to unwind this or correct it. Matt, go ahead.

All right. Okay. So what you're needing to do, Robert, step one is take the money from the llc. Let's say it was six grand each. We're going to send it back to each of your Roth IRAs@directed. There's a investment income or return of income form. You'll use it directed. It's on the forms page on directed Iraq. Now, that 6,000 is in each of your Roth accounts.

You don't shut down the llc.

You don't need to yet. Okay. Now what we're going to do is you're going to need to recharacterize those contributions. And there's another form for this. And it's going to get moved out of your Roth over to your traditionals, which you said you also have traditional IRAs that directed. Okay. And we're probably going to house it there and those now, because you have traditional IRAs already. There's just a little snag for you, Robert, because my first inclination is, let's try and do a backdoor Roth on this six grand and get it right back in the Roth by putting these as non deductible contributions in your traditional, converting them, and they're going to go right back to the Roth. We kind of cleaned the money, so to speak. Did it the proper way. That's legit for the IRS narcos. Get it back in the llc. Yeah, Ozark. Yeah. So car wash. Get. Get with Ruth, you know, get good old Ruth involved. She can help. She knows what she's doing. Find her over at the trailer park. Yeah, but I think for you, Robert, because you have traditional IRAs, you may need to sit them over there just in the traditional IRA accounts, that six grand, we'll have to see what you can do with the llc. Maybe you're going to convert what else is in the traditional IRAs and just go all Roth. You got some decisions there. But you do got to fix this contribution to the Roth. Recharacterize it back to traditionals now.

And I wrote an article on this because there's some timing involved. There can be penalties if you wait too long. It's. It's kind of messy.

And you're good, Robert, right now because

you're okay right now.

You're definitely good until April 15th. And if you want to just pull it out all entirely and just shut it down, you could do that, too. I don't know your income situation and qualifications for traditional IRA contributions either, because if you have an employer 401k or your spouse does, there can be sometimes some income limitations on that.

And some of you may say, well, I'll just let it go. The IRS isn't going to figure it out. I made too much money. But I put money in a Roth, I'm okay. If at any point in the future the IRS figures out that you made too much money when you put money in that Roth, the whole thing collapses. Taxes out the wazoo. We're okay with the E rating month. Wazoo. Okay. Yeah.

Wazoo's PG.13.

Watch it. Okay. My producer's saying that's a. That's a bad word. Wazoo. Okay. All right. Dave says my wife started a book. Oh, no, no, no, that's not a real. I'm sorry, I did say no non retirement plan questions. So come back at 4:00 today, we'll hit it. Sophia's world says I've been waiting for the accounting firm for a month. Sophia, we got a wait list. Cross your fingers. I'm grateful that you're on that wait list. We are trying to hire as quickly as we can. Be patient everybody. If you're trying to get in through the accounting firm again, you can do a strategy session with the law firm and continue to work on your retirement plan. Investing with directed ira. But accounting prep is just, it's, the industry is just overwhelmed right now. Okay, Chad says are strong book nodes ordinary income. Chad, we're going to cover. Sorry, Strong block nodes considered ordinary income first. We will cover that at 4 o' clock today. I'm going to get one of our crypto attorneys to join me today. I'll try to get Darren here. And also we're going to be covering that on January 29th at the Crypto Tax Summit. Chad, if you're asking that question, you better frickin be registered for the summit. You can do that on any of our websites. Iske says, what do you do with real estate? Paper losses in a Roth ira. Okay, we got a retirement plan question. Okay. All right, so let's say we're back to the drawing board here. You have an LLC and it's your own rental property. In this LLC is owned by a Roth IRA and a traditional IRA, let's say. So I've got an LLC funded with two IRAs. I go out and buy a rental property. Now what you typically do, folks, right, you're going to put down money to get into this rental property and there's going to be a bank involved over here that usually is going to do. And we have banks that specifically loan to IRA LLC owned by iras. I mean this is so fricking cool. So you can still get loans. Buy a rental property with maybe 30, 40, 50% down, you're going to have a higher down payment requirement. But that's okay, your credit has nothing to do with it. It's called a non recourse loan. We got prior podcasts on that. So in this situation, the depreciation on the property plus all the write offs, there's a good chance you're going to have a loss. That's very typical with rental property. You're building wealth, you've got cash flow, but on paper you have a loss. Love him or hate him, think of President Trump, former President Trump had a loss on all this rental property he owned to the point where he paid hardly any taxes the year he was before he was president. Now some of you were like, well, that's crazy, that's illegal that he shouldn't do that. Well, guess what, we have a lot of clients that love that strategy and we want you to create paper losses. So Biden had an S Corp in a rental property. Everybody's doing this, folks. You're at the right spot, learning the right things. But if you have this loss and it goes to your ira, what happens? Where's it go? Well, well, yeah, if you do not have debt, if you do not have debt inside of this IRA LLC and you have paper losses and you go to sell the property, the losses are used against the gain, yada yada. But really, does your IRA pay tax? No, it does not. So this is where there's some groups out there that say buying rentals in an IRA is worthless because you don't get the write off. No, you get the write off and if you need it, it's there. The only time you would need it is if you have what's called unrelated debt financed income. So if you do have a loan from the bank and you do have paper losses, we want to track those because someday when you sell the rental, we're going to use those losses against the gain because you had debt on the rental property. Another topic for another day, everybody. If you're watching this, you've got to pick up Matt's book, go over to Kindle, go to Amazon, pick up the book. There's a whole section, a whole chapter on debt financed income. So there's ways around it. But you want to track those losses when there's debt involved. If there's no debt involved, the losses are gone. That's cool, but you didn't pay tax anyway, so chill. It's all good.

Yeah, and here's another important thing to note though too is you don't pay tax in your ira. So some people are like, oh, don't buy real estate in your ira. You don't get to take the losses. Well, you don't pay taxes on the gain either. What do I want losses for in a retirement account? Like, I don't pay taxes on the gain, so don't stress. It's a great strategy. I'd rather be in a no tax situation than a situation where I get to take losses.

Now, Matt, we got a follow up question on this and I'm going to pose it to you now. I'm so impressed. This is a very important Follower here on YouTube. It is my son, Dylan Kohler posing questions on my podcast on my. How cool is that?

All right.

Yeah, he's about 26 and now he's like, yeah, maybe I should listen to my dad, you know?

Yeah. But he's turned the corner.

He turned the corner. You know, for all of you out there with teenagers that do not care any about anything you say and believe that everything you say is wrong, there is a day where your children circle back and they go, you know what, my parents aren't that stupid. So anyway, Dylan, I love you. Here's his question. I'm going to let Matt answer it because he'll still believe Matt more than me. When you're investing. Okay everybody, let's think. This is Dylan's question. He says when you're investing ordinary income, your personal income and you have a capital loss that's greater than your capital gains, I get to lower my overall income, right everybody, you have a loss, you have gains, you get to net those. And on your personal 1040, it's pretty cool. Even though you had a loss, it sucks. Okay, go. I gotta keep going. Now you go down, I need Dillard. Okay, but then he says this also possible in your 401k. When I self direct I had a loss in my 401k. Can I somehow take that loss on my personal return?

No, because here's why we don't take the gains you have in your 401k and pop them over on your 1040 either.

Yeah, it's a double edged sword.

It's fair. And I know we get this question quite a bit because a lot of real estate clients and Dylan's done some real estate deals, you know, a lot of real estate clients are like, wait, I don't get to take my losses to offset my other income. No, you don't. But you also don't pay tax on the gains you make period at all in the 401k. And if it's Roth in your IRA or 401k, it comes out totally tax free. That's a better deal all around.

Okay, Dr. Olga has a question for you too. Matt. Now this is Olga. Now this is. If you've seen the show, she got the final question or are we at the final question? By the way, Matt, can we give away some of your books? Yeah, we're going to give away some of Matt's books.

Yeah, those are, that's like a $500 value, guys. That's.

This is big deal. Corey, I want you to choose two names, a male and a female. If you can distinguish that from the chat. And they're going to be random, so everybody don't type. I want a book. Corey's going to do this randomly. He has a little software program where he can plug it in. Get. Get those. Now, Dr. Olga. I love that Olga, because I think of the movie with Bill Murray, the man that knew too little. And it's so funny. There's a Dr. Olga.

Olga.

Yeah, it's awesome. Okay, so Dr. Olga says, now, Matt, here's your question. We'll do one more after Olga. She says, is it a good idea to become a 50% owner in a yacht? Buy it with my traditional IRA. Now, three good things there. We got Olga. We got a yacht and an ira. I mean, right there. I mean, that's the makings of a great question.

Yeah, that's a. That's a triple play right there. Love that. Yes, you can. And I've had clients use their IRAs to buy yachts, you know.

Yeah.

Some of them, you would look at them and say that a yacht, a stretch. Let's just go with watercraft. Okay. But let's say you could. Yeah, an IRA can own that. The problem is, Dr. Olga, you can't go on it. But you know who can go on it? Your tax lawyer. Your tax lawyer can go on that yacht. So remember, when you're buying assets with your ira, whether it's a yacht, a vacation rental, what, whatever it may be, you can't use it or stay on it. Okay. Other people can, obviously you can charge it. Maybe you charter the yacht out, that would be absolutely fine. But you can't have personal use of it, so. Which is obviously one of the great reasons to own a yacht in the first place.

Okay, I'll go back up. Okay. And I would just say this opens the door to the 50 shades of gray article of Matt Sorenson's. I don't know what some of you were thinking. I was thinking of the gray between using an asset inside your IRA LLC, when you may own 50% versus maybe 5 or 10%. So I'm just going to throw out there, olga, if your IRA was only a 5 to 10% owner of the yacht and you wanted to go stay on the yacht, and it's an Airbnb type structure, you pay fair market value to go use the yacht. That's okay, because you have a very low ownership. But at 50%, that gray turns pretty black.

Yeah, that's a no go, that's a no go zone. But yeah, you're smaller amount, under 10% is possible. You would pay what anyone else have to pay. And obviously there'd be people that own 90% or more of that that would be, you know, permitting that to happen.

So yeah, Daddy fame 16 says, can you explain metaverse taxes please? In exactly three hours we were back here live on YouTube and I will do it. Then David Lake says, can I my self directed 401k invest into a partnership LLC I am a member of now the answer is yes, if you do the right timing. So let me tell you the no. If you have an LLC and you're like, oh, oh, I want my 401k to put in 50 grand or 20 grand and I'll give my 401k 30% ownership or whatever, I need money. So I'm going to let my 401k buy into my current LLC. No go. Because you're selling something you own, which is your LLC to your 401k. Can't do that. But if you come to us on Monday and go, oh, oh, I want to form a new LLC and I'm going to put in some of my own money or maybe some sort of asset that can go into that LLC and my 401k is going to put in some money too and we're going to form a new LLC and we're gonna put our arms around each other and walk into the sunset, hand holding arms around each other. And now I'm partnering with my 401k. Yes, that's doable because it's a new LLC where you're combining forces, Wonder twin powers right there. Boom.

But yeah, so the easiest way to think of it is your 401k or IRA cannot transact with you or companies that you own and control, but it can co invest with you into new things, go in at the very beginning, co invest at the same time and we break up the ownership stake based on the dollars. We got a whole podcast episode on that too. I think it's like episode seven or eight back. It's a multi member IRA LLC where we get into all the partnering rules.

Okay, you want to take one last question from the website and we'll call it. And then everybody watching here on YouTube, I'm going to announce the two winners of our books here in just a moment. Okay, Matt, last question.

All right, Arthur asked, what was the ruling with Congress on self directed IRAs. Okay, so let's give a quick update on that for those of you didn't know there was something called build back better bill. If you followed the news that had some provisions that would have really restricted how you could self direct your ira. The good news is those provisions got pulled out of the bill entirely even before it went through the House Ways and Means. But even the newly passed one that passed the House has not gotten any traction in the Senate. So all those retirement plan rule changes you've been hearing about and you know Mark and I were out beating the drum against this and trying to get changes. We lobbied on it pretty hard too. The harmful self directed provisions got kicked out months ago. What was left still progressed and passed the House but which was really like 10 million accounts or more now really only thing going to be affected and Roth conversions to backdoor Roth could be closed out. But right now Senate's sitting on it. Doesn't seem like it's going to pass anytime soon. So stay tuned though. Make sure you sign up for our newsletter, which you can get@directed ira.com or on either markerized sites. We're obviously updating you on anything happening on that bill.

Yeah, and let's, let's finish with that before I announce my two winners. Please. If you found today helpful at all and we are so grateful you're here, please share this audio from your podcast or this video from your YouTube channel and spread the good word. It definitely helps all of us when there's more viewers and more people involved. Number two, if you're thinking about taxes and have any relationship to crypto inside your retirement account or outside of your retirement account, please get to the website and also sign up for the January 29th crypto tax summit, first in the country, specifically dedicated to tax strategies when it comes to crypto, the metaverse nodes staking, defi mining, all the above. Finally, the website mattress said directed ira.com number one on the search engines right now. Killing it. We're loving it. Please get over there to open your accounts, sign up for the newsletter, make an appointment to talk about your retirement accounts. Find out what your options are. If you need an appointment with one of our tax lawyers, Stephanie and Katie here part of the team. We've got 14 different tax lawyers that can meet with you within the next two to four weeks and put together a strategy session for you for your retirement account plan. Some of the attorneys specialize in different areas. You didn't get a chance to see Katie. Katie is working on IRA llc. Steph's doing more your overall tax planning, but they're Both of them are equipped to help you in any way, shape or form. Our winners, Jesse Fowler and Ryan Lee. Now, I was shooting for a male and a female winner.

Female, I don't know.

I'm Corey. I'm hoping that Jesse has a picture of a really. Well, then you.

Okay, do you want to do Karen K instead?

We're gonna do three books. Okay. Karen. Karen K. Is a winner. Jesse, because you have that adronomist name. Not sure if you're male or female. Thanks to Corey, you get a book. Jesse Fowler, Karen K. And Ryan Lee all get a copy of the self directed IRA handbook. And to claim the book, you have to email coreyarkjkohler.com he's our producer here on the show. Email Corey and say, that's me. I'm a winner. And Corey will get that book sent out to you through our marketing department. Matt, any final words? Take us out, bud.

Yeah. Any of you that get the book and you don't like it, there's free refunds. Of course. You do.

Free refunds. You do?

Yeah, free refills. I do refund.

You do refills too?

Free refills. But no. Thanks everyone for being here. We do this every. Every month. An open forum show where we take your questions on the Directed IRA podcast. And we're doing. Every week we're doing a show. Get over to directedra.com podcast where you can see prior episodes and also submit your questions. We'd love to get more questions from you.

Okay, hold it. Ryan Lee just said, I will donate my book to another user. I got it already. Corey, you call it. You're the man, smart guy.

Ryan

Aaron Perry.

Aaron Perry. Aaron Perry, you are a winner today in life and with a book. Aaron Perry, email Corey. Thank you, Ryan, for saying that. A lot of people shouting out saying they love the book. Several people said, I like Mark's book better, but Matt's is okay. So I want to say thank you to all those that said that too.

So no, no one said, all right, thanks everyone. We'll be back next week.

Okay, see ya.