Tax and Legal Questions & Answers to Save You Thousands!

Foreign. Welcome everyone to the Main Street Business Podcast with Mark Kohler and Matt Sorenson. We're excited to be with you today on the Open Forum episode. This is your episode.

That's right. It's Q and A time and so we're going to do our best to answer your questions or have your questions answered. Q and A. I'm trying to make sure I get all the vernacular down. I just ran into the studio eating a breakfast burrito and he said, what kind of burrito is that? And I go, breakfast burrito. I'm eating breakfast and lunch. And he goes, mark, we have a word for that.

It's called brunch.

Yeah, it's called brunch, but I don't

think that breakfast burrito from the gas station you can technically call brunch.

It did feel like brunch don't go down like brunch. Yeah. When I was walking outside of the truck shop, they're like free mimosa. You know that, that didn't happen. Yeah.

Well, thanks everyone for being here. As you said, it's open forum show. That means we're going to take your tax, legal, asset protection, wealth building questions today. Mark and I are both tax attorneys. Mark's a cpa. I also am CEO of Directed ira, our trust company for self directed retirement accounts. And we're just out here answering your questions for free. You decide if they're worth anything, but they're free. So no full refunds are offered on these questions.

Yeah, yeah, full refunds. Yeah, we, we like to have fun on the show. So hopefully those that are new to the show appreciate the. Some might call it humor, some might call it a distraction. It's up to you. You get to call it what you want and, but no, I think a lot of people find this very, very enlightening to see very similar questions from other entrepreneurs and investors from around the country and go, huh, I'm not alone. And then other folks are like, wow, I didn't even think of that question. Yeah, so we got, got a whole bunch here today. It's going to be fun. Any important news first we need to cover?

Well, I mean, do we have a update from our correspondent on the Britney Spears?

Yeah, let me go to him. This is Mark Kohler in Hollywood reporting.

Yeah. Live on assignment.

Live on assignment. Yeah. Dad stepped down. Britney's free now. She still has free. Ish. Yeah, she still has a custodian that's appointed by the court, but they were co custodians and her father stepped down. So Brittany's happy about that because now they don't have this deadlock where dad can hold things up and assert his will on his daughter that apparently he loves and she loves him. I don't. I think there's a lot of love lost there. But anyway, you heard it here, maybe here first on the Main street business podcast, the news you were waiting for.

Yeah, no one asked that question, but we just thought everyone wanted to know that answer, though. Yeah, I mean, everybody wanted to know. And this reminds me of my favorite meme that was going around a few weeks ago, which was kind of like a picture of a guy at the pawn shop negotiating, you know, and on the meme it said America demanded to free Britney. And it shows the pawn shop guy and he's like, best I can do is free Bill Cosby.

Oh, boy.

Our world that we live in, we got going.

Okay. And yeah, gosh, I was going to

say something else over some upcoming educational events, we got our workshops, the self directed IRA Summit.

Yeah, let's come to that. Let's dive into some questions. And also one quick disclaimer. Sorry to some of you who were a little upset about our last podcast on the moratorium for tenants and allowing to stay in landlords in homes where landlords are not paid for another month or so. And there's. We covered the entire issue on our podcast last week and we were trying to take the side of landlords that are oftentimes over 70% of landlords. Just small business owners like you and I, they're not these big corporations trying to hurt the little guy. They are the little guy that just happened to have a rental property. And so we got some hate mail. But we are just as sympathetic for the tenant as we are the landlord. But it's time to let maybe the free market solve the problem for people on both sides of that situation. And we talked about it. So if you, if that topic interests you, it is one of our most listened to podcasts ever now and probably the most hate mail I've gotten in a while. So might be interesting for you. So.

Yes. Might want to go see what that's all about.

Yeah, might want to see what that's about. Okay, Matt, you get to choose our first question today.

All right. Okay. This is, I love this. This is a question from Terry and Terry in Tennessee. Okay. In the event of a total collapse of the economy or depression, okay. How should your assets and business be structured to protect you, the business and your assets? Wow. Okay, Terry, I don't know if you know Something we need to know.

I need the red phone to Terry's house, apparently so I can.

Yeah, here's what I would say. And I, this has happened many times. I think even I had to deal with this with family and some clients. When the pandemic hit, a lot of people got into panic mode and frankly made a lot of poor decisions. They got out of the stock market entirely. They just went to cash. And we've had the greatest rise in the last 12 months in a long time. And people that did that really left a lot of money on the table because they had some fear. And so what I would say is like fear makes cause you to make some bad decisions. But at the same time, we want to have the emergency fund and some liquid assets and things that you can use to live off of if we do go into a depression and be prepared for that. But it's not everything, okay? You don't take everything off the table to do that. You don't sell everything and put it all in cash under a mattress or Bitcoin or whatever you think is going to survive if there was a depression. What I, what I think is good, and this is, you know, kind of like Dave Ramsey principles, is have your three months of savings to cover your life, your living expenses, cover your mortgage, cover your rent, cover your any bill, you have food, what you need to take care of yourself and any of the people that depend on you. You know what you got, you business owners, you need to do the same thing. You need to have a three month savings or readily available assets that you can deploy if your business gets affected by a downturn. And that'll give you time to hopefully adjust and right size your business so it doesn't go under. But I think that same principle for your personal life applies to your business life. Are you gonna be able to make payroll if you don't have a little contingency fund set aside? So that's my first piece of advice. Don't take everything off the table. Think about an emergency plan for savings.

Okay, Can I just say, boring. Gosh, you couldn't throw in a little weapon stockpiling bunker? Yeah, none of that.

A flamethrower.

I was like, seriously, you know, that's it? That's all you had? Well, okay.

Well, you know, sometimes the most boring advice is the advice that actually matters, you know?

Oh, really? Okay, all right. I'm saying live a little. Okay. I like Terry's question.

And by the way, I did hear from a friend that grenades are about 500 bucks. On the black market. True story. Yeah, friend. That is like a undercover police officer. I was like, what? You know, they, like, busted some people with a bunch of grenades and, like, other stuff. I'm like, who has grenades in Phoenix? What are they gonna use them for? I was like, yeah, let's go to the. I'm like, what are those? About 500 bucks. So, you know, if you want to take in your bitcoin, you can buy 80 grenades. Just one bitcoin will buy you 80 grenades.

Okay, well, that's. That's a rule of thumb. We all want to live by there. Just kind of currency trading.

Interesting for you, Mark?

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Running grenades and bitcoin all in one statement. That's very uncommon. I like it. Well, here's what's funny. If you answer Terry's question in a vacuum, let's do that. Let's just think, in the event of a total collapse of the economy, how should my assets and business be structured to protect me? Well, if we answer that question in a vacuum, you're going to live a very different life than mainstream society. Right. Because if you say if. I'm assuming there could be a total collapse of the economy or the depression, well, you've got to make some significant changes. You've got to have a heck of a lot of cash and food storage, emergency supplies, probably weapons, probably off the grid, power supply, water supply, utilities. Because if you're going to live with the possibility of this, you're going to have to make some significant changes in your lifestyle or deployment of your assets, not just in liquidity, but in literally survival now. And it's crazy. You watch a lot of these doomsday movies that are quite popular the last five years, and. And you see, wow, I don't have the food storage that I should, or the. Do I have enough toilet paper or whatever. And then the COVID thing hits, and you're like, there's a run on Windex at the grocery store. So it's hard to answer Terry's question, because if you're going to live under the assumption that that could happen, then you're going to have to go through a checklist of things. Now, I think moderation in life means we don't live the complete opposite either. We live. We can't just live month to month. We can't say it could never happen, and we don't take any precautions. And I think that's where, Matt, you made a good point that when Covid hit and there was a quote, unquote, Lockdown and a run on a lot of basic supplies at the store. A lot of people that had never thought of this were left hanging. So my answer would be this. In life, most of our problems are solved by living imbalance, living in the middle, staying in the lane of a little bit of caution, but a little bit of conservatism. We got to make sure that we're protected. And this is where I like what Matt said. Even though it was boring, having some cash reserves at your home, having a fireproof safe, having food supply, having storage, be thinking about, I have a generator. I've never owned one. And finally when I built this house up in Idaho, I said I want a generator off the grid. I don't live off the grid, but if the power went down, I have a generator going to natural gas. And I depending on if it's an earthquake and natural gas lanes are lost, I could do pretty well with electricity for time being. So that was one thing I wanted to do. Now do I have a safe room in my house like Jody Foster and. No. But I'd like one someday I'm going

to tell you, I do.

Yeah.

I mean, as far as, you know, I don't.

Yeah. So. But anyway, I think living out of debt, consumer debt, having cash reserves and very important thing. And you know what, Matt, this is a good point too. I'm going to give a little shout out here. My partner in the accounting firm, Brian Brown was in a serious accident and he's in the hospital and we kind of had a wake up call. And our kind of family of firms here with our companies at the highest level, if you lose someone, if you lose a partner in your business or a key employee, what's your backup plan? You know, is there a safety net for that in operations? And I don't think a lot of businesses think of that too. You know what happens if everybody had to go work remotely? How hard would that be? So, yeah, a lot of emergency preparedness stuff.

Yeah. And I think even think of those contingency plans, like even at directed ira, like we, as a regulated finance decision, we have a contingency plan for certain things and we have to test it annually too. And I think it's a pain in a, in the butt to do it.

I have to be honest there when our E rating. Yeah. You know, it's not my fault this time if we get any rating, can I say pain in the keister. You know, we're trying to stay off the E rating. And there you go, you know, you

know it's just those dang butt comets. But, but

going through those protocols and yeah, yeah, they're a pain, it's good.

But it, you, you learned some things about how to do it and you know what? We had a pandemic hit. We had it already. We knew what we're gonna do. So.

Okay, I got a good question here. Let's move to some tax and legal. This affects a lot of our listeners. This is from Zach on Instagram. He says it is two part question. Should I have my S corporation own all my operational entities? Should I have one S corporation? Correct. And then he said, and my trust should hold all my holding LLCs. I guess it's three parts, but they're all interrelated in some simple points. The one word that answers all this is the trifecta. Now, some of you have come to our office in the last, over the years, and especially in the last few years where the trifecta term has really taken off. And that is a, excuse me, that's a concept where your trust, your revocable living trust, which provides no asset protection, but a lot of privacy and planning for your family and your assets. So you have this little revocable living trust, single, married, second marriage, whatever, young or old, you don't have to be rich. In fact, it's very important. Everybody has one. And this little revocable living trust, very affordable. That's your foundation. And in Zach's question, on the left side of our trifecta that we teach every day and been doing so for years, would be your operational S Corp as your primary operational entity. If you have a number of small businesses, it would own those subsidiaries or the share of those subsidiaries. And if possible, depending on the situation, sometimes clients have a couple s corps because of different types of businesses or partners. But 1s corp is really 90% of what our clients go down. I only have 1s corporation and it owns my share. There we go. We're in the same boat. That's the left side and then the right side is your holding companies, that's your LLCs, your retirement accounts, your asset side, and that's going to be owned. All the entities are going to be owned by your trust. So whether it's operational on the left and holdings on the right, it all flows down to your 1040 and your trust. And your trust should own all of these businesses, be the beneficiary on all the retirement accounts, own your home, little things like that. So if you meet with one of our attorneys, and sometimes an appointment may take A month to get in with an attorney. But if it's not urgent, that's okay. We need you let us know if it's urgent. But that's what we want to do in our first consult with all of our clients. Let's look at your diagram. What's your trifecta? What entities do you have that you don't need? What entities do you need that you don't have? Let's simplify. And so, Zach, great question, Matt. What would you add to on that?

I just say, for Zach, it was like three yeses to each question. Yes, yes, yes. Should your S corp own all of your operational other entities? Yes, it should. Everything should flow to your S corp. Your S corp owns all of your other things. Partnerships that are operational, other entities you want to keep separate. It all flows down the S Corp. Should your trust own your holding asset LLCs. Yes, exactly right. You know, and so.

And should you have one S Corp. Yeah.

And should you have one S Corp. Yes. Unless you are a weird situation.

Yeah. So that's really very good. Yeah. So. And some of you that are maybe, yeah. Listening to this, you'll be like, oh, that's me. And that's the wonder of this show.

And we have Mark's Got Videos. We do a podcast just on the Trifecta. I can't remember, but there's a lot of content on the Trifecta if you get around searching for it on our stuff. And I just want to say it's an asset protection strategy and tax strategy built into. Into one, one thing. Many asset protection lawyers, or hopefully you're not working with them, but the asset protection coaches or whatever corporate places they are that aren't real lawyers that advise you like they are, they screw up your tax stuff, and then the CPA and the tax people screw up your legal stuff. This is like the balance of, like how the asset protection, the tax planning work together. It's the trifecta. It's awesome. And that state, that local living trust is your state plan. Of course.

Love it. Could we answer, Matt, if you don't mind? Dos.

Yes. This is related to that.

Yeah, it's related to it. I love it. Why don't you.

Let's hit that one next. So he says, or she DAs, they, if I have an RLT and I want to put a series LLC, what's an RLT? Revocable Living Trust for those. For those that the cool kids know. It's a revocable living trust. If I have. If I have a revocable Living trust, and I want to put a series LLC into it at a later date that will deal in RIE REI rentals, real estate investment rentals, in order to avoid title issues. Is it better to name myself as the member of the LLC or rather than the trust and then assign the LLC into the trust? All right, if you have a revocable living trust already and you want to create a series LLC later on, just have the trust own the series LLC from day one.

Yep. Love it.

No.

Gosh, you're smart. I was going to say that. Oh, yeah, you said it. I was like, I wonder if Matt's going to say what I'd say. That was perfect. Yeah.

I mean, why mess around? Just, like, start. That's what it is. You.

You amazed me, Matt. You had. You had me at rlt. I just want to throw that out.

Yeah, I know how I'm gonna get right to your heart, you know, and you throw a little REI in there.

Oh, man.

That's not the. That's not the outdoor, you know, recreation and recreational kind of. That's real estate investments. You know, real estate investments. But this is important, though, because a lot of people are going to go get a rental property and use a series llc, and that's. Series LLC is something that is one llc. You can create separate series and separate each of your properties out for asset protection purposes. We got a separate podcast entirely on that. It's awesome for real estate investors that have rentals, but as you're buying properties, you may be closing on them in your personal name. You're going to deed them to the series LLC later. It's okay that you buy it in your personal name and then deed it to the series llc. Don't get caught up by having to buy it in your trust or in the series from the beginning. You can do that, but it's okay to just buy it personally, deed it over to the series LLC later.

Okay. I like what you did. You went down another fork in the road.

I think that's part of the question.

Yeah, it is.

It is that they see that this is the problem. Why would I. I'm like, why would you not do it that way?

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think this is another fork in the road, or there's different paths here. And so I'm going to say different way. Sometimes people hear it from Matt and they understand it. Most of the times they hear it from me and they understand it. So let me give this another stab. Did you like that? That little passive aggressive. Yeah. You notice that You've been married. You know what I was doing.

Yeah, I'm just gonna let it. I'm just gonna let it ride.

Okay, here's for everybody here. Let's think through some of these situations because DOS is onto something here. Das. If I have a trust and I set up any type of llc, just let the trust own it right from the beginning. If I have an LLC and I form a trust later, then you'll do a membership transfer and transfer the ownership of the LLC from you to your trust. Both ways are fine, but where we get hung up is if I'm going to go buy a rental. We have this four letter word called the bank. And the bank is going to freak out if they see the LLC as an owner, or you're trying to close in the name of the llc or you're trying to close in the name of the trust. For some reason, even though they live in America, they have no clue what these entities mean because they don't want to know what they mean. They want to close in your name. So you kind of have to play the bank's game. Freddie Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and you're going to close in your name. On day two, you would deed the rental property of the llc, which will be owned by your trust. And if you buy a personal home after closing, you would deed it to your trust. Because I don't have an LLC between my trust and my personal home, just between my trust and rentals. That's where the LLC goes. Now some of you go, oh, there's a due on sale clause. You guys don't know what you're talking about. The bank's going to call the loan. No, they won't. In 20 years, I think I've had one client that literally got pushed by the bank to deed it back into their name. And I swear it's because they went in and done, hey, can I do this? What do you think the bank's going to say? They're going to freak out. You know, they got to get approval from three people to go to bathroom on break. So they're not going to let you do that. So just freaking do it. They've already sold your mortgage. And I've talked to so many banker attorneys, they're like, we do not care. The only time we pull that card is if you're not paying your mortgage. If you're not paying your mortgage, we're gonna look for the quickest way to foreclose. But anyway, so people, there is some timing issues here. And this is why working with your, you know, attorney once a year or twice a year, doing some planning, you'll get this stuff. And I'm so grateful all of you are listening to the podcast because these are the little things that make you a better investor. So because it's too expensive to call an attorney every time you have a question, I'm grateful you're here. Educating yourself. That's what you got to do. Notice how I complimented our listeners, Matt, you could do more of that, I think. I appreciate.

I mean, we have great listeners. I mean, they're. They're like, they're determined, you know, smart. I mean, they can listen to Mark Kohler for an hour. Yeah, I mean, that. That takes a determined, smart person to really make it through that.

Yeah, I'm going to go with smart because it's a. It's a mental marathon. You know, I just. I'm running. Try. Yeah, I. Some people, I tire with my conversation, but they really don't know. It's just because I'm making them think deeper.

I mean, let's be honest. This is tax and legal. We're just, you know, we're just trying to keep it interesting, but also give you the right information.

Speaking of getting some energy going here, Corey, can you bring me another rock star, please? It's a double rock star day.

Yeah, I think you need it.

I do. You can feel it. All right. Okay, you choose.

I got a question from Rod. Okay. Rod emailed in a question. Rod from California. He says, longtime listener, first time question. Love the show.

Thank you.

He says, I'm deciding between a Roth 401K and traditional 401K. Through my new employment, $80,000 salary. I also have been building a small rental portfolio. I'm about to inherit a fully depreciated property that cash flows around 50,000 year in retirement. I anticipate most of my earnings will come from my rentals. Given that rentals have the depreciation deduction, I'm assuming I'll be in a lower tax bracket until the depreciation is exhausted. Which 401k should I choose? Okay.

Can I say one thing and tell me if you. I think. I don't know if those. Those two scenarios even relate to each other. I think the 401k question is independent. Would you say that? I don't know. I have that feeling. No.

Well, deciding between Roth and traditional, you know, I think is a determination of, you know, one of the factors you want to look at is what will your income be at retirement versus what is your income now? Because remember, on a traditional, when you take, you put that money in, you're getting a tax deduction. Well, Rod, if you're at $80,000 salary and you have a rental portfolio, but that's pretty much depreciating. Maybe you've got this property you're going to inherit that's around, that adds 50,000 a year. I don't know if you're married, you got dependents or not, but you're not in the highest of tax brackets yet. And so that traditional tax deduction isn't as valuable right now. Let's take it on the flip side. Let's say later you've got 10 rental properties that you've depreciated all fully and now you're cash flowing these babies and you're loving it. I mean, retirement's great because you know, you got this, you got this rental portfolio built up with equity in it and you got cash flow. I, you know, now you've got high income and, and so I actually think the traditional is a bad deal in that scenario because your deduction is not as valuable now, but then later, if your income higher, you know, it's good, you're going to pay tax on the way out. You're choosing to pay tax at a higher rate if this works out that way. So in that case, I would go the Roth and Mark and I did a separate podcast on traditional versus Roth that was out. That was on the Directed IRA podcast. Yeah, that I think you'd really like. Rod, check that out. Directed IRA podcast. We compared Roth versus Traditional and some income points and kind of analyze this these factors and ran some calculations. It was pretty nerdy, but I think really detailed with kind of how. Rod, you asked your question.

Yeah, let me repeat that for everybody because this question of should I do Roth or traditional is very much debated in the financial community, accounting community. And so we did an entire podcast on it. Now you may not have known, we have two podcasts. We have the Main Street Business podcast, which some of you may be getting on YouTube here and don't even know that that's on your stitcher or your itunes podcast play button, but we also have the Directed IRA podcast now, the URL for that and you can just search on Google directed IRA podcast and you'll find it quite quickly. But directed ira.com podcast, we do an open forum every three weeks there and a couple topics in between that really help you vet these types of questions with your retirement accounts and how to self direct and invest in what you know. So go watch that, Rod. And any of you debating this. Okay, now here's my answer. Everybody's situation is different. And that you have to say that when anybody says, should I do Roth or traditional and they've got rentals or they don't. There's about five other questions. Married or single? How old are you? What's your plan for income? What's your plan for this? How much do you already. There's some variables. Right. But let me give you the general rule. In my opinion, Matt, tell me if you agree. General rule, go Roth. I think the majority now, it may be 55% of the time. It may be 65, 75. I don't, I think it's higher than people realize. But I think when you do the math, because most of us want to retire at the same level of income or more, really, I want to retire on less than I'm making. Now. That's not my goal. Now, I don't know what reality would be. But if that's the goal, then plan that way. And if you're going to plan that way, I think the general rule is to always go Roth. Now, there's a, there's a red herring here, too. That's kind of the red dress in the matrix. Here's the, here's the distraction in that question. He said, at my employer, I have to choose between Roth and Traditional. Nowadays, you don't. You get to. You get a 401k that lets you choose Roth or traditional every year. So you could say, well, this year I'm going to do Roth, next year I'll do traditional. So don't think it's a one and done answer. In most organizations now, they're allowing you to choose the type of deposit you want to make in the 401k every year. Also, remember, the company match is going to be traditional, so you're going to end up with a. If you go Roth, you're still going to have a traditional piece. There you go. You're getting a couple of both. So. But I think that question is irrelevant. I think the real estate issue is irrelevant from this decision because we want to build your real estate portfolio separate from building your retirement account portfolio. Now, you might have real estate in your portfolio. I get it. But I don't know. I just think that's my take. Okay, so, okay, now we got to do this on the show for my sponsorship with Rockstar, because I'm a Rockstar accountant. 10 carbs, zero sugar, no carbonation. 160 grams of caffeine. There you go, people. The best rockstar drink is the Rockstar recovery. Give it a try. Everybody I introduced to it, they love it. It doesn't taste like motor oil or Red Bull and crap. I mean, this is like Country Time Lemonade. I mean, it's. Oh, it's dangerous.

Is that the. Is that the standard? Can you make it taste like country time lemonade?

I'm just saying everybody loves lemonade.

You know, I thought that was a low standard. Maybe like. Maybe like your grandma's lemonade or something a little more, you know.

I don't know if I could go with fresh squeezed, but fresh squeezes, it's something.

It's somewhere between grandma's lemonade and fresh squeezed.

Yeah. Okay.

I don't know.

I've got a question. Okay, I got a question, but I want to pose it to you, Matt, so I'm going to.

Okay, I got a good question, too.

All right, this is Christina from the website. Now, if any of you want to pose a question, go to mainstreetbusiness.com and click the button. Submit a question and you can see other questions. And I always respond in there when we answered the question. So you can go to the specific podcast if you're looking for that answer. So Christina posed this question. She said, our oldest son, we'll start college in two years. We have a Coverdell ESA account that we plan to use to pay for most of the expenses, including housing. I had a client this week dropping off a child in Atlanta, you know, and she's down there and getting them all set up. I dropped off my daughter Molly this month at her schooling in Salt Lake City. And it's just a fun time, you know? Is that fun getting drink? Yeah, on both ends. You know, whether you're the kid and.

Or the parent, I mean, it is awesome. This is a good time, Christina. And I like the question.

Yeah. So fun. And so I had some questions from some clients this week on this topic. Her question is, there's two parts to this. The big question is, what type of things can I pay for with the 529 or a covered L IRA? Now, everybody out there, a Coverdell IRA is a supercharged IRA just for college expenses. They're awesome. They grow tax free, come out tax free for college. Love them. I've got some good blog articles on it and some podcasts and YouTube videos. Go check them out. So anyway, for my client in Atlanta this week, we were talking about. Okay, what can we write off out of the 529. And Christina's question here, Love it.

Covered all. She doesn't want the covered.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Cover it. What can I write off? What are those educational expenses? And then number two, here's the, here's the, the heart of it. If I purchase a rental property in Atlanta or wherever I'm going, will we be living where he will be living during college? Can he use the money from his Coverdell to pay me rent, his parents as owners of the rental? So kind of a two part question, Matt. What is covered as an education expense? And then in, as we go deeper, should I buy a rental where my kids are going to college and could the 529 pay the rent? How cool would that be?

Yes. Okay, so let's get to the first part of it. It's a two part question, Christina. First part is what can the Coverdell and education savings account pay for tuition? Obviously is clear. And it's going to go that, you know, that's pretty straightforward. Pay it straight to the school. And here at directed ira, you know, we're doing these all the time. We have lots of Coverdell accounts here that are self directed. And have you submitted expense request and we go pay the bill. All right. Second thing that's covered is room and board. Now, room meaning housing, board meaning food.

Wow.

Those things can be reimbursed too. Now, on the housing side, what the rules for Coverdell say, and it's similar for 529s, is that it could be the actual expense if it's housing provided by the school, like the university housing, let's say they're living on campus or if they're off campus, which would be the question here where you're going, Christina. It's the amount that they allocate in the financial aid package for the school for housing expenses. And this is different school to school. So you kind of got to do your own work on this to figure out how much did they put into the financial aid package when they calculate this at the school for room and board. And so that's going to get you your housing number. Let's say it's five grand for the year they set aside for housing or ten grand, whatever it may be, it's going to be different in different locations based on housing expenses. Well, then that, that amount could be paid to any landlord for housing. Let's say you happen to be the landlord. I don't see a problem with it. Now, there's some pros and cons here. I want to hit. This is first, let's say this. It is not a prohibited transaction.

Okay?

This is a reimbursement of an expense. This is not your IRA transacting in an investment. So don't think about is it a prohibited transaction? For many of you who know self directed accounts, it's not. This is a distribution essentially to cover a qualified expense, which housing is. There's no restriction in the rules or codes I've ever seen. And I looked this up a little bit before on this. Now here's one thing to know. This is gonna be rental income to you though. Remember, this is a rental. This is, you're gonna pick it up on your schedule E as rental income. So yeah, it's coming out of the covered. Al. Remember, you will pick it back up as rental income.

Okay, stop, stop, stop. Matt Sorenson.

Yes.

I love that it's rental income. Now here's why I'm just saying, just like, well, either way you said it

well, you just gotta track it.

Well, the way you said it kind of sounded crappy. Okay, all right, now here, here's what I'd say. Well, let's stick with.

Here's the other. Here's, here's why I just say it that way. The here's where I think the next question is, is, well, what if they just live at home with me and they're in a room in my house? Can I that there. They should pay rent. I'm gonna, I want to charge them that one too. That's rental income. Now to you. Even though they're at your house, if you're taking this out as a distribution, they, this is an expense they have to be that they're incurring. If you're letting them stay free at your house, essentially this is not something you can come out with a covered up.

Wow, that's a great point for Christina's

situation in a separate rental of buying. I think it's awesome and I think that's where you're going to go. We love that.

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so let's stick with Georgia for a minute. If I have a kid going down to Georgia to go to college, they may be a freshman in the dorms the first year, yada, yada, I get it. But as soon as possible, I want to get a rental property near campus or within a reasonable commute if possible. Some, some college communities are very overpriced with rentals because of supply and demand. I get it. But let's say we find a rental property, maybe even a little fixer upper that you could go and work on with your child in the summer or put him to work on it. And now they're paying rent to you. Every time you go to Georgia is a tax write off because you're going to go check on your rental. Your child is now an employee of your LLC working on the rental. Now we can 1099 that child for helping you with your rental. So even if I'm collecting rental income from the 529 or the Coverdale, that's okay because it's the gas, it's the grease that makes the engine turn on this rental property strategy. Now, I want to digress and go back a step. When Matt said this is very important, everybody. When Matt said it's not a prohibited transaction for the covered LN529 to pay you or your rental property for rent. It cannot pay a rental property you own in your ira that is prohibited. So the money coming out of the Coverdell is not prohibited. But if it's going to your IRA that owns a rental now we have a problem. So what I tell clients is, well, they say, well, so I can't buy rentals in Georgia in my ira. No, you can buy rentals in Georgia with your IRA llc and buy rentals in Georgia in your own personal LLC owned by your trust. Now you have two buckets, two portfolios of real estate in a market that you're familiar with and you're watching and you visit. And the one that's owned by your personal LLC is where all the write offs sit. The LLC that's owned by your IRA that owns rentals is where all the tax free income and appreciation is being generated. So I think you can knock out several birds with one stone here. And I, I just love this question. Christina.

Yeah, yeah, that was a good question. It's one I had to look up to confirm. And there's some commentary I've seen from other CPAs and attorneys talking about this, but there's no restriction on it. Just keeping in mind the limit amounts in terms of what's a qualified distribution that's not taxable. Does you do need to look into the actual school's allocation for room and board to determine how much you could do per year that'll be qualifying as a distribution tax free.

Now we have got our question from Lee and he puts his whole name in there. We know Lee, Lee Richter. He's a wonderful client, regular follower of the show. He put his name out there in full from Texas and he said right off the bat, now this is important. For everybody, he said. I am looking forward to your seminar in Dallas. Now we have got a couple things going on in Dallas this fall. So I'm going to just tell you folks since Lee brought it up, it's right here in the our our show questions on the website. We are doing a self directed IRA master's class on the night of October 1st in Dallas. Now it's limited to 50 people and we are asking and we'll be a little tough on this. These are people that have either been to our summit before or have been self directing and through some of our education because we're going to be talking high level. This is not someone where you bring that's never invested with an ira. It's going to be over their head. They're going to hate it. But for you heavy duty investors, this is going to be a fun night. It includes dinner. It's just with Me and Matt, 50 people in a classy joint talking high level. They'll be, they will. I guarantee there will be over $100 million of Roth IRA investments in that room. It's going to be legit. The next day, October 2nd is my one day business owners workshop, investors workshop where for six hours, that's after breaks. So it's six full hours in and around the breaks of tax strategies for year end, legal structuring, estate planning, strategies, investing. I've got a, I do a new curriculum every year, really excited about it and that will be on Saturday the 2nd. You can sign up for the master's class at directed ira directed. Well we're going to go to directed ira.com to sign up.

I think it's on your site. It's on Mark J. Kohler. That's where they have it right now.

So both of these on October 1st and 2nd go to markjkohler.com and sign up. They will both sell out. I'm going to keep the Saturday class to a hundred or less and it'll be lots of Q and A. It's going to be really good. So Matt, do you want to talk about the summit too which is also

we got self directed IRA summit October 22nd and 23rd here in Scottsdale, Arizona. Golf tournament involved with some charity component to it. And then full day of self directed IRA training with multiple sessions going at each time so you can bounce between different things you're interested in. It's going to be awesome. Live in person. Great time to network, meet other people, find some common investors. Yeah.

October 22, October 23 that will not be virtually Broadcast. Neither will the Dallas event two weeks earlier. And. But this, the summit is such a good one for the new investor as well as the advanced investor with retirement accounts because we're going to have two tracks of classes. So you can jump to the class you want. We're going to have multiple presenters there. Matt and I will be presenting all day. Please come. It'll be good. Anyway, when you get to markjkohler.com, you'll also see I've got a workshop in Orange County, Hawaii the week before Thanksgiving. Tax write off. Come to Hawaii for the workshop. I mean, it's really a sacrifice on my part to go do it for you. So yeah, just call me a giver. We've got Chicago. I won't go through all the dates, but get over to markjcohler.com check out the events in Chicago, Orange County, Honolulu. And then we do have a virtual in December, which brings up a question. This was on Instagram. Let me just say this, Matt, then you'd be ready to choose your next question. All right, I'm ready. This was from Invest Young and she says, what is the difference between your city and virtual summits or virtual workshops? The content is the same. It's just that the in person city events are going to be fewer people, more opportunity for Q and A directly with me and the networking involved with the others. And also the trip becomes a tax write off. So your airfare, hotel, uber food, all that makes it a tax deductible trip which can be a, you know, mix a little pleasure with fun. Pleasure with fun. Pleasure with the fun of the workshop. You know, I'm working on that. So little fun with the pleasure of the workshop or pleasure with the fun of the workshop.

Okay. See what you did there? Yeah.

But if you want to, there is a virtual summit for directed IRA that we'll be holding in the spring. But you want to get to Phoenix. That'll be, that's, that's the next virtual. So. Okay, Matt, question.

All right. Okay. I don't know who this is, but it's Slaughterhouse Properties llc. They said, hello, Eminem. Matt first, then Mark. They said that on the website. That's exactly what they said.

I got to verify that.

I just said your content makes me so excited. I'm starting to wonder if I'm in the wrong W2 field. My husband and I both have W2 jobs and recently set up two single family rental LLCs. Single owner, one each with the help of KKOS. Devin was amazing, by the way. I Have a few questions from Binging on your podcast. All right, we might take a couple of these here. So first question was, I have heard that interest paid on HELOC is not tax deductible. Looking for a way to tap into equity without selling. Is this true? I know a traditional refi is also an option. Okay, good question. Really depends on what you're doing with the heloc. Are you buying a boat that you're not renting out? Are you using that HELOC to go buy a rental property or to put in and improve a rental property? Some of these single family rentals you have, you can tap into that equity even on a home equity line of credit and use that debt to go buy rentals. Now you're expensing that debt on the rental side. You're not expensing that HELOC on your personal stuff as your residence. Now, this is a business expense for your rental property. So look definitely towards tapping that equity. That can be a good place. Just make sure it's being used for business purposes or for a rental property, which makes that interest you'll be paying tax deductible. Want to hit any other questions on there, Mark? I don't know if you saw it yet.

Yeah, I may. Let me come back to that. I did bring up Lee's name. We didn't answer his question. He's like, you guys suck. You know, hold it. You're going to use my name in vain and then I'll answer my question. He says, I have a ticket already to the seminar in Dallas. I'll be there. You're awesome, Lee. We would expect you to be there. We're doing this for you. Lee's been saying, come to Dallas for a while. I'm just going to go to Buc EE's. That's on my bucket list to go to Buc EE's.

They've got a pretty good breakfast burrito there.

I bet they do.

Yeah. You could have it for breakfast and lunch.

I could have Brunch at Buc EE's. Brunch at Buc EE's. Bucky's Brunch. Look at that. I bet you there's a T shirt in there somewhere. Okay, my question is, do you have to ask or tell people they are on the board. Board of advisors. Or just make a note in the minutes, like Matt, Devin and Mark are in my book as being on the board of advisors. And I get advice for all three at times, but I've never asked any of you.

Well,

you could Put in your minutes that I get advice from these people and they are advisors to our company. But to be officially on the board of directors or board of advisors, they've got to sign the minutes. They've got you. We gotta. We gotta be a part of a meeting. We got, you know, so obviously we. You're ha. You can't have a board of. Board of advisors meeting without the people, you know, people knowing that they're in the meeting and signing off on it. And you are kind of using those. Our names or whoever people out there you want to put on your board using their name in vain. I think it's fine to say their advisors to the company, but to be on the actual board, you. You've got to get their signature, approval, consent, and, and then use it. I mean, if they're just there, you know, that's part of the plan too. Yeah.

Here was one scenario. I had a client years back, that family business, and they were kind of married into the family, and they got a 1099 for like 5000 bucks. And they're like, what is this? And they're like, oh, yeah, we just write off some stuff and you just. We just expense that. You're on our board. Like, I am. What do I do? And wait, I have to pay tax on this? Yeah, sorry about that, but you're in a low income bracket, so don't worry about it.

Okay.

So, yes, you should be talking about board of advisors, and maybe these are things you're covering expensive expenses for them. I mean, obviously an advice you're getting from us, Lee, is tax. You know, you're expensing that as a professional service and of course, podcast being free. But yeah, I think you should definitely let them know who they are that you're doing this. And I think it's an honor for some of those people that are on your board of advisors, but they should be involved in what's going on in your business and, you know, having some conversations with them. It doesn't have to be an official meeting if you've got like five people on the board of advisors where you all don't meet together. You know, you might be consulting with others and asking questions and talking and having a soundboard with certain people. That's okay. They can be on your board of advisors and not meeting altogether. But you should kind of summarize these things. I like, like Mark said, have them sign the minutes. That's super helpful.

All right.

Okay,

go ahead. Do you have one that you like?

Yeah. Well, let me just hit Some of these in the slaughterhouse. This will be my last one. Just another question on there. She said you'd mentioned on your podcast that equipment bought for rentals can be written off as a business expense. Are there any special rules for this? Just count as part of the annual business inventory. Okay. Now, equipment is. Can be a capital asset, something you're not going to expense 100% when you buy it. So if you're buying the flooring nailer, like you say there, you know, you're buying a saw or something. I mean, the equipment actually gets written off over a period of time. It depends on the type of equipment it is. So when you're doing your books or if you're working with an accountant, they're going to want to know, what is that? Like, you can't just say, oh, I'm expensing all this equipment. It was 3,000 bucks this year. Just write off 3,000 bucks. They're not going to do that for equipment because that's a capital asset that lasts over time and you expense it over time. So, yes, there are some special rules. That's the special rule.

Yeah. Okay, let's see. I get to choose one more question. Yeah. Okay. If I brought up wash sales and. Wash sales and crypto and answered a couple questions in that area, would you be okay with that, Matt?

What's that?

Wash sales and crypto and all that?

Oh, you want to talk about that?

I was thinking about it.

I don't know. You know, the bills change, some of that.

Yeah.

My thing, if you want to. I don't know. Is that past it, the house pass it. It's kind of in limbo.

It is. Dustin asked a question about wash sales and crypto. I'm going to stay away from it, Dustin, because it's in. It's in Congress right now and there could be some changes there. And so even by the time this podcast is produce. So let, let's hold that one for future. Let's go with a. You know, but I do want to talk about crypto for a minute. I had a couple questions this week, and I think we've talked about real estate, we've talked about family, we've talked about S Corps trusts. But I want to give our crypto investors, and Matt and I both own a little crypto, too. We want to be doing a little of everything just like our clients so that we can really kind of test the waters and see how the experience or process is for us and we can be more intelligent about talking about it. But here's what I'd like to say on crypto. I got sucked into a variety of conversations in the last seven days on this. If any of you are buying cryptocurrency, the big fork in the road right at the beginning is, is when I start a conversation, I ask, are you buying cryptocurrency in your own name or are you buying it with a retirement account? Because you're going to go down two different paths of answers to the questions. And so remember, those are two different rule books. They really are apples and oranges. Concepts may be the same, but you're going to get really different answers depending on what you're doing. So whenever you think about buying cryptocurrency and we have a crypto roth, a crypto 401k crypto coverdales, crypto HSAs. If you want to buy a little cryptocurrency in your retirement account, you can do it within the next hour. I mean, boom, get on our website direct@ira.com so easy. And we love Gemini. We work with Gemini. They're just a really good company to work with on that. Now if you turn right on this fork in the road and you say, I'm going to own a little cryptocurrency in my own account, freak. You can buy crypto on Venmo. Now. Soon you'll be able to make payments in cryptocurrency via Venmo. PayPal is trying to get this feature as well, so it's getting much more common. And so you say, I'm going to buy a little cryptocurrency and let's say it's Ethereum, let's stay. You know, Bitcoin gets too much press. So let's just say it's Ethereum. If you buy a little Ethereum, it, even though it's considered property, you're going to have a short term or long term capital gain, depending on how long you hold it. If you hold it less than 12 months, you pay whatever your ordinary income tax rate is, Fed and state. If you hold up more than 12 months, you get long term capital gain. Fed and state. Now some of you, we deal with this all the time. A crypto investor will go, yeah, but my wallet is, you know, buried in, encrypted in a server in, you know, Russia and the US is never going to know about it really. And I read somewhere I don't have to pay taxes on it because, you know, it's the wallets offshore and I've got it in a Nevada this or that or whatever people, whoever gives you that advice, ask them to sign your tax return and be liable if they're wrong. You're going to find out real quick that the people telling you those things are not going to stand behind that advice when it comes to signing your actual tax return. And guess who is on the hook if you're wrong? You are. And they're the first question on that 1040 tax return for 2019 was did you own, buy, trade or do any transactions with cryptocurrency, yes or no. With penalties of perjury and fraud, yes or no? I would recommend you answer that honestly.

So yeah.

And Matt, so far going down the right hand side of the road here, any question or any comments you'd make on that so far?

Yeah, I think there's. You're going to see a lot of IRS enforcement on this. So this is an area where the Biden administration, the Democrats that have and those on this infrastructure bill. The biggest thing on crypto is increasing reporting requirements of anyone that touches crypto as a service provider and increasing audit resources and people within the IRS to chase people down for under reporting on this. And they're gonna go hard on this. And so if you've been kind of in the dark on this, this is a time to kind of clean up and, and the get all. Where they are gonna get everyone, anyone they can get for tax fraud. Is this one check mark on your tax return?

Yeah.

Don't. This is serious. This is very serious. So just so, but, but there's great strategies. If you're like, I don't wanna pay tax on this, start buying crypto in a Roth ira. I mean there's strategies to do it legit and to do it the right way and to minimize your tax liability. I know no one loves paying taxes. You want to kind of keep it off the grid because crypto has for a while. But crypto is going mainstream. With it going mainstream means the IRS is going to be all over it. And the value of your crypto is going up too, because it's going mainstream. So it's not all bad. Okay. I know a lot of people like, damn it, why was, you know it

was going to happen?

We knew it was going to happen and it's good. It's going to increase the value of what you're holding.

Yeah, I love it.

And just, and here I'll say this because I say like one of the fears I think a lot of crypto investors have is that the government's going to come shut it down. Let me actually tell you why I think that's not going to happen. The IRS makes money on it once they found out how to tax it and it's a revenue source. Do you think the government wants to close it out? No. In some ways this is a good thing. I know it sounds crazy, but it's kind of like a. It's kind of a good thing. Yeah. I love it. I like it.

Gosh, I wanted to say so much as you were talking and I kind of got frozen with all these thoughts coming at once to me. So I'm just going to keep down the path for just a moment more. For those that are not holding crypto, but maybe doing mining or staking, that's ordinary income. And the safe play is that it's going to be subject to self employment tax. So that means you need to run any mining you're doing or staking through an S corporation if you're. It's going to be worth the cost to do. So you have to look at kind of a FICA analysis. You know what the FICA that's self employment tax or security, Medicare. Now people go, well I'm staking, I'm staking DeFi. Well, DeFi is lending your IRA or providing it as a collateral for a liquidity source and blockfi and others are out there doing defi. Now if you're doing defi, that's interest income, no problem. But don't blend the word staking with DeFi. They're two different things. Now I know some of you techies out there are going to go, mark, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Hey, fine. Every day there's a, there's evolvement in the tech side of this and I can't keep up. But I do know what the IRS is doing. I know what they're trying to tax and we can help you. Don't put your head in the sand or rely on some blog article from some guy in his basement telling you how to do your taxes. If they're not going to sign your tax return, it's on you. So be careful.

Yeah. Let me address something that's really important that's came up in retirement accounts and individuals doing mining because we've seen some advice contrary to what we tell people and I'm pretty sure we're right. And this is me, tax attorney, market tax attorney and cpa. I've heard this argument and there's other competitors, ours that push this argument. Well, it's mining income is not ordinary income for me personally or wouldn't be subject to UBIT in my retirement account because I pay some other company to do all the services on the equipment. I don't even do anything. Okay, how does that change whether it's ordinary income or UBIT or not? Like if I own a bus and I pay someone else to operate it and maintain it, aren't I still. And I charge people to ride the bus. I just own equipment in my IRA or personally. It's still ordinary income. Just I pay someone else to do it. Doesn't change whether it's ordinary or not. And so if it's ordinary income to you individually, you're going to pay Medicare and Social Security. The IRS has been clear on that. For mining income, if it's in the IRA side, I know you're not providing services and you're not maintaining it yourself. You can't. It's a prohibited transaction to do it. You have to pay someone else to do it. But that doesn't mean it's not ubit. It's. The nature of the income is still. You have a piece of equipment you have provided to someone for their use. The network, whatever it is that's paying you for that, that's going to be ordinary income. It's going to be subject to ubit. And that's why we have the structures that Mark talked about, you know, with the, the, the strategy he's gone over with his own mining rig and how he's doing it with the C Corp blocker. Another podcast episode and videos to check out.

Okay. And I said, this brings up. It just reminded me a little banking crypto strategy. And we're going to leave it at this and call it a show. I get. I thought I had this question or this issue come up yesterday and I told Kirby, I give her a shout out. Regular listener on this issue. They went to go set up their LLC owned by iras. And I'm going to say the bank, it was Wells Fargo. And that's all fine. I use Wells Fargo. I love Wells Fargo for the most part. I know big banks have their pros and cons, but I use Wells Fargo and I set up my LLCs owned by my IRAs at Wells Fargo as well. Now we did a. I did a whole banking vent on how to deal with banks and they'll check it.

That's fair.

Yeah, that's fair, right?

It's like a little like below a rant. It was kind of. It's just like a vent. It wasn't a rant. It was like, that's true.

That's a little softer. So go listen to that podcast on dealing with banks. But what happened in Kirby's case, it wasn't that the LLC was owned by iras. The bank heard that they were doing crypto in that llc, and some banks, for some reason, I don't know, don't like this, and they just freaking shut her account. Shut it down. And Matt, I understand you've been seeing this with some banks too, that if you tell the bank that you're going to hold crypto in this bank account or this llc, you could have problems. Is that. Give us cutting edge advice on this? Is that true? What should we be telling the banks? Is that what really happened in this case? What do you think?

Well, I think for the banks, they're all over the place on this. Frankly, I've even had to deal with it myself, too. But luckily I have banking relationships at the bank that I could explain it and I could get. Okay, we get what you're doing. We don't see you as a risk factor. What. What many banks are freaked out about is, is whether you're a risk factor. Basically because for a bank, they get audited and examined and anything crypto right now, from a banking standpoint, they get audit kind of a magnifying glass thrown on it. So. So they're kind of like, we just don't want the hassle of it, really. It's not that they can't help you or handle your account. It's just they don't want to deal with it unless you're a big enough relationship with them to be like, okay, we get it. Or unless you have someone you can talk to there besides like 1-800-customer service at your bank or the teller you walk into, like, you need someone that can say, ah, we get it. You're cool. Here. Here's a couple things to avoid. One, do not use the word crypto in the name of your llc. If you're using an llc.

Y.

Don't. That. That is just like, you're kind of like waving your hand, hey, I might have a problem. Come check me out.

You know, going to the shooting range and.

Or you might be like the guy that's like, hey, is this oregano or weed? I don't know. Can you guys look at it? Mr. Police Officer? You know, it's like driving. That happens to be in my pocket. I just.

Is it. Yeah, yeah.

All right.

Don't use any other metaphors or good ones. Yeah, all right, okay. Number two, what would you not do?

So, so, and then it's kind of like don't ask, don't tell. You know, it's like, just don't ask about it. All right. They don't want to know. Your banker actually does not want to know this. Yeah, but the banks have these different risk management departments that are going to pull this and be like, oh, we, you know, we see something here that is out of the ordinary. Or, oh, your LLC name has crypto in it or your documents in your, you know, business purpose, say crypto. We don't do that. We're just going to put a generic business purpose in there, which we do for every customer business anyways. And so now on the other hand, the other thing I was going to say is this is the big banks, the big banks are terrified of this. There are some smaller banks and you can get out there and Google around on crypto banks, banks that work with crypto customers. There's a lot of them out there. Silvergate's a really big one. There's a number of them out there that really kind of target the crypto market. And they're, they're, you know, have their own processes for it, but they're smaller banks. It's not the bank where you have everything else. So you just have to keep that in mind.

Yeah. And here's another. I'm going to put, I'm going to distinctly state what Matt said. I'm going to add a third one. Number one, do not put the word crypto in the name of your llc. Number two, when you're there opening the account and they say, what are you doing with this business? Say, I'm just managing investments. We might buy real estate, I might buy stock. It's just an investment. Llc. That's all they need to know. Just say the I word, investments. If you drop the word crypto, they're going to push a button under the desk and who knows what could happen. Right. So be careful.

Yeah. Here's the funny thing. When you said Wells Fargo, Wells Fargo has invested billions in crypto right now from a technology standpoint and service. They're just not there yet and being okay with it. Like a checking account. So, like, are on board with this. It's just they're doing this little risk management thing on smaller accounts. Really, I think, is really what's happening.

Yeah. And then number three, that step back and we're learning this. Some of you may say, well, you didn't tell me that when you set up my llc. Well, we're telling you now, we're all learning here when kind of banking issues are a moving target at times. When you do the articles of organization for your llc, don't put crypto in the purpose. Just say the purpose of this LLC is to manage investments for myself or my family. The end. That's all you have to say.

But if you just do the generic one, you know, the purpose is to conduct any business permitted under the laws of this state. Like you, just generic. You don't need anything.

Yeah. Because you, when you open a bank account, you're going to hand them the articles and your SS4 or electronic identification number, EIN statement from the IRS. That's all they need. And so we covered this on another podcast. But I'll say it now, if they go, we need your operating operating agreement. No, you don't. Are you, I'm the manager, I'm the owner. Set up the DAM account. That's all you do. That's all you do. The minute you say, well, I've got five owners and there's IRAs and they're going to go give us the operating agreement, you just put the brakes on for your new bank account for at least three days. Don't tell them that. Just say, I'm opening up an llc, I'm the manager and here's the articles, here's the ein. And don't have the word crypto in the purpose because they're going to see it right there on the paper. Just keep it generic.

And they want to know what's called the ubo. Underlying beneficial owner. Which is fine if it's your, you know, obviously if it's you or your trust, it's just you. It's me, I own this thing. If it's your ira, you're the beneficial owner on your ira.

You're not lying to them. Yeah.

Yes. So that's just you at the end of the day. It's just the confusion in the middle with the 22 year old that the bank, you know, barely understands what a check is nowadays. You know, like they're just, you're, you're kind of getting turned around is the unfortunate part.

Yeah. So another little important tip for everybody out there. Thanks everybody for listening. Fun stuff. Remember, we've got regular webinars every month@directed ira.com that you can sign up for that are complimentary. Once a month we've got, I've got my webinar series once a month@markjkohler.com we've got our workshops this fall we're back on the road. Woo. Delta variant pending, you know, whatever. So we're so, we're so excited we're going to be out there. So please sign up for a workshop. It's a great tax write off. I know you will walk away saving thousands of money in taxes, making more money in your investments in business when you're done with one of our workshops. And we price them affordably. These are not 1000, 2000, 5000, mastermind, exclusive, whatever type stuff. This is two or three hundred dollars. And you're in the door and you're learning a ton. You're going to love it. Bring your family, bring your partner. But thanks for listening.

Yeah, thanks everyone. Thanks, Mark, for heck of a good time.

That was great. We'll see you next week.