The Best Tax Strategies To Make Healthcare CHEAP

If you don't have coverage with your employer or you are a solopreneur, open enrollment is a big deal.

You need a plan for this. We're all going to face some of these medical expenses and not having medical coverage and medical expenses are one of the number one causes of bankruptcy.

If any of you wonder what you can write off, go to Publication 502. It's the list by the. It's like a little handbook from the IRS, Publication 502. And you can look at all the things that you can write off under any of these plans and what you can't. Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the Main Street Business Podcast. My name is Mark Kohler. I'm here with the illustrious Matt Sorenson. Excited for that time of the year.

Oh, it's that special time of year. It's not the most wonderful time of the year.

Yeah, yeah. It's not, you know, leaves changing color or fall football or Thanksgiving or the crisp.

Oh, it's the, it's that special time when Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey.

No, no. You know, we are so excited about that. It's open enrollment. Yeah. Everything you guys want to know.

Healthcare open enrollment, guys. Okay. It's not college enrollment or getting your kids back to school. This is healthcare open enrollment. Very exciting. But let's be honest, it matters. Healthcare is a huge cost for every individual and for many of you business owners, you're self employed, you're buying it for yourself. Or maybe you have some of these other plans where your employees go on the marketplace. Wanna talk about those? But big topic right now, huge expense health and some strategies and planning that can be helpful if you get your crap together.

Yeah. At our 360 event, we do it twice a year for three days. We've got two to three hours of just healthcare topics alone. It's just a complex yet simple. It's a topic people avoid. So let me just say this. If you've even listened to us on a regular basis and think, are they gonna say the same darn thing? We're not. Today we wanna bring some cutting edge. What's going on right now in the industry, Some cutting edge topics that will help you. It's not just about how do I get health insurance, which health insurance is best. It's the strategy conversation. Is there a way I can do this better? And who's going to tell you? Your insurance agent, your banker, your lawyer, hopefully your accountant. And we're trying to train our tax advisors to be that resource. So today we hope to Give you some good tips.

Yeah, because there is some tax planning involved in this too. You also want to make sure if you're self employed, am I being able to expense it? Am I writing it off properly? You want to make sure you're catching these things and you're not taking these things for granted because if you miss them and do them wrong, you miss out on the deduction too. So there's some cool little tax tips in there. Of course, we'll talk about the HSA and that some of those benefits. So we're gonna hit all these hot

topics and a little shout out to Blue Cross Blue Shield, our sponsor today, giving us free Rockstar so that we have hypertension and high blood pressure and can use our services on a regular basis.

Make sure you're a returning customer.

That's right. All right. Okay.

You know what, what you want to start with?

Yeah, can I, Can I? Yeah. Set a, set the stage from a big picture and then we'll go straight to open enrollment. Okay. I think the open enrollments are good. Here's what I want to say from a big picture and see if you agree with this. There's so many different angles and facets to this conversation of health care. Let me say this. If you have a day job or your spouse and they are providing healthcare benefits, you're going to be following their enrollment procedure, their time frame for that, looking at the options they present to you. Believe it or not, you still have a lot of latitude to make a good decision regarding maybe a HSA qualifying policy, what type of policy. You want to take that enrollment process seriously when you talk with your employer. Okay. So let's just set that aside. So don't think that, oh, I have health insurance covered, it's my day job or my spouse's. Game over. No, no, no, no. There's things you need to think about from a strategy standpoint. You can really game it with your employer and the government. So you want to know that you really have options. Number two for those out there that are business owners with employees, you're in another bucket too. You know, what are you going to do to retain employees? Employees expect benefits to some degree. Are you retaining and hiring better employees with your health care strategy? Are you doing the hra, a health and group health insurance? How many employees do you have? That's a whole conversation. And then I think finally, as individuals, maybe you're a solopreneur. Maybe you're coming up on Social Security and Medicaid and Medicare. That's another conversation what are you doing to deduct your health care expenses? You actually have more latitude when you don't have employees, more latitude when you don't work for an employer. So that's kind of the wild west of even more opportunity. And again, this is why we could be here for hours. So I want to hit. But anyway, those kind of. You like those three lanes, I guess. I don't know.

Yeah. And I think on some of these, we have separate podcasts on just some of these things we're going to hit. So we're going to hit the strategy. So you know what to look into, whether it is an hsa, an hra. So there's, there's other content on this, but it all goes into getting health insurance in this open enrollment time. So we want to hit those things. So you're thinking about them as you're deciding what plans to get.

Yeah. And I think, okay, so bringing it into open enrollment, first and foremost, if you don't have coverage with your employer or you are a solopreneur, open enrollment is a big deal. You want to be very strategic. If you have employees, different time frames and different strategy.

Yeah. And I'll say this. I mean, one thing we do actually is, and these are very popular now, is what are called ICRAs and QSEHRAs, which are basically coverage that the employer gives and reimbursement dollars that the employer gives. I want to talk about these for a second a little bit later, but so you might have employees of yours that are on the plan like this, that go out to the individual market to buy their own plan, and you're reimbursing them a certain amount of their cost. So there's a lot of people that do work for an employer, but they get a benefit that is reimbursing. That's reimbursing. And you get to go choose your plan. You don't have to use the one plan we have in our benefit package.

Yeah. Let's distinguish that as we talk about open enrollment. Again, I'm going to restate what Matt said a little differently. If you work for an employer that gives you a reimbursement type coverage, open enrollment is a big deal because you're going to go out and choose the plan that you're going to submit for reimbursement. If you're an employer with employees, you may say, I'm going to go to this reimbursement strategy group. Healthcare is so damn expensive. I want to give a fixed reimbursement to my employees. And I Want to encourage them during open enrollment to go out and shop, find a good plan. So you're going to be worried about open enrollment for your employees, in a sense, because you want them to get on, get on board with that strategy. It's going to save you money as an employer. Typically, that's what we even implement here in our law firm. So that's why open enrollment matters. Again, some of you that work for an employer may think, I don't need to worry about this, but what type of. Oh, I do get reimbursed. A lot of people just don't look so. Okay, open enrollment, what does it mean? When does it start?

All right, it starts November 1st and it goes until January 15th. Now, I recommend you get on the ball in early November so you can actually enjoy the holidays here.

And you can apply right now even.

Yeah, you can get going. You go to healthcare.gov you set up your app, and if you've been done at years past, you should be able to pull up your prior year's information, but you have to input some information. And there are subsidies, depending on your situation, where you could get a partial tax credit. You're paying a discounted amount for the health insurance. So you gotta get to healthcare.gov to just start the process to filling out your application, whether you're getting single coverage or family coverage. And you're gonna see all the different plans that pop up. Now, remember when Obamacare first came out, this is where this came from. You know, Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, whatever you like to call it. But there is a penalty for not having health insurance.

Right?

You're legally required to have health insurance. So you're.

You were. Yeah, you.

There's still a penalty, there's still a legal requirement, but the penalty got stripped out. Trump was like, he couldn't change the law, but he could kill the penalty. So they just killed the penalty and I don't think they passed it back. But you're supposed to have this, guys, and you need to have health insurance coverage. You need a plan for this. We're all going to face some of these medical expenses and not having medical coverage. And medical expenses are one of the number one causes of bankruptcy. So get on the ball on this. But you get healthcare.gov that's where you'll start the process.

Okay, now let's unpack that a little bit. Some states don't follow healthcare.gov they have their own marketplace, California being one. Yeah, I'm making a note here on my calendar. I really should have a table of which states have their own marketplace and which go with healthcare.gov now some of you that are making money may go, well, I don't get a subsidy from the federal government. Do I really have to go to healthcare.gov no. There are independent health insurance agencies and agents. That's what I have. And he's like, yeah, I can shop the marketplace for you, but here's some independent plans at Blue Cross, Blue Shield or wherever. And so you don't have to go through healthcare.gov it's an easy place to start. That's where I like to start with my kids. People that are making, oh, I would say 50 to 100 grand a year. Even if you don't get the subsidy, there's a lot, it's really fast. I got coverage for one of my family members, I think within 45 minutes. Policy done, email paid, end, end of game. And it was awesome. And so just find the right marketplace and realize you can go to an independent agent.

Yeah, yeah, great point. So, but this is for coverage starting in 2024. So even though you might be doing it in November, this is not going to go into effect in December. This is for coverage to begin January 1, 2024. And remember, you can only get coverage outside of this if you have some qualifying event. So this is your time to opt in for 2024 and pick your plan. If you don't do anything, you can't be like in February, oh, I want to go get coverage. You have to have some qualifying event that lets you now opt in. Like, like you had a job where you had coverage or your spouse had a job with coverage that you left. Or some qualifying event that lets you now opt in.

Yeah. Now some of you may go, well, hold it. If I don't opt in right now, I literally can't get health insurance. No, you can. There are short term policies and agents have ways to get you coverage, but

your options and costs are very different.

Very different. You're not getting the subsidy.

By very different, I mean not as

good, not good, you will regret it. So you've got to take this seriously. Another point too is I think when you do, if you went right now and filled out the application, I think you can choose a December 1 start date. But that could again, could vary from state to state, but it primarily is for 2024. Yeah. See, if some of you don't have coverage. Now, this is my daughter. Yeah, yeah. She has no coverage at all. Yeah. So I'm, I'm starting her December 1st. I could do that. Yes. But for most people, your coverage is calendar year January 1st to December 31st. Yeah. Okay. All right.

So, okay. Now when you get in there, there's different levels of coverage. And this is the metals. Of course, if you're familiar with this, where you've got bronze, silver, gold and platinum. I didn't know they added platinum. I don't know when that came in because it used to just be bronze, silver, gold they've got. But you have different categories of coverage you can pick and different costs that you're going to see in there. And, and that's important because you need to look at who you are. And this is just a general health insurance situation. This is where the strategy comes in. Yeah, this is where the strategy comes in because there's a cost difference, but there's also a benefit difference. So you got to think, am I a healthy person that doesn't typically use this? I really want it for a catastrophic situation if something really goes bad. And I, you know, and I'm willing to pay a higher deductible and I'm willing to go out of pocket more, but I really need it there for the big thing when I'm healthy. Well, you can go for a lower plan. That'd be like the bronze. All right. But if you're like, man, we got lots of medical, lots of prescriptions, we might be having a kid next year, you know, whatever. You might not be wanting to go bronze.

Okay.

Like, it might be a lower premium, but the benefit you're going to get on it on a gold or something is going to be much better and you're going to save money in the long term. So you got to do a little strategy there.

It's hard. And let me tell you my take on this too. And I like where Matt started. The first issue is, are you healthy or not? That's going to put you on two major different freeways of strategy. If you are generally healthy, you are going to want to lean towards the health savings account strategy, which will come here to in a moment. It's going to be high deductible. You're not going to be a lot of people. I can't have a high deductible.

You don't.

You're not even sick all the time. Yeah. But just in case that's what the HSA is for, you've got to be able to think strategy that I'm saving on my policy to put money away tax deductively and tax free growth. And then if I do have a problem the money's there. Don't get hung up on this. Deductible amount is a bad thing. It actually opens a lot of doors for you. So if you're generally healthy, you want to recognize that and go into this. This freeway, let's call it i10. Now, if you're, like, not very healthy, and you're like, nah, we go to the doctor quite a bit. Maybe you have a chronic health concern. Maybe it's eyes, dental, physical therapy. Who knows what any of those medical concerns, you're gonna say, you know what? I need the insurance company. I'm gonna milk it. You know, I'm really gonna stick it to them. And you go with that strategy. You're not gonna worry about the HSA as much that. Go ahead.

I would say that that sounds more like the i5, you know, more messy, more problem, you know, more expensive. California, by the way.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I wanna. There's a good joke I was gonna throw here. What's that? Oh, my gosh.

The Californians.

No, no. Yeah, that's true. It was in 405.

Gone off of Mulholland.

It was Cameron Diaz. She's like, all of a sudden, I'm on i5. And what's that video game where it's like, shoot them up on the fridge.

Grand Theft Auto.

Yeah, she was like, I'm in Grand theft auto on i5. That's if you're on Health. All right, now, once you make that big decision of which lane you're in, it does get more complex. It's beyond the scope of the show. But let me just say this. It is true. The lower the plan. Bronze, silver, typically, the lower the cost. But this is where when you nail down an insurance agent on this, and they're very. Most insurance agents are not trying to hide the ball. Hell, they want to get you in and out because they don't make big commissions on this. They'll tell you the price is not so much the deductible or the plan metal. It's your network.

Yeah.

What network do you want? And if you're willing to say, hey, if I got to go to the doctor, I'll drive 45 minutes, you might get a cheaper network, but get a gold or platinum plan.

Yeah.

So the network is a factor. It's like a matrix. Yeah. And so you want to. So as you go into that, when you're unhealthy, you're going to start thinking more about the network. If you're not. If you're Healthy. You're like, whatever the hell. I'll drive 45 minutes because I never go to the doctor. I don't care. So don't get hung up on the network. But I think the network plays a role in that. When you're on Grand Theft Auto.

Yeah. And I think that's where you look in also. Like PPOs and HMOs, whereas in a PPO, you need a referral, and those are usually more affordable. You have to go to your general practice doctor. You can't go right to a specialist. You know, you've got to go through the general practice to get a referral. It's kind of a pain in the neck. They're gatekeepers for versus an hmo, where you can go directly to a specialist if you needed to.

You know, this is funny. I think we're talking about this program today, too, because you had some outpatient surgery last week. I have it next week. Have it on my foot. And we've both been through the medical thing.

I know I'm on an HMO right now. It was nice. I didn't need a referral. I just went right to the ear. Nose. Yeah.

You've got a sweet plan right now. You're on a sweet plan.

Yeah. I got married. I'm on my wife's plan. She's got a great plan. Anyways.

Well, I'd like, you know, I'd like, you know, the reason why I bring this up. Sometimes Matt's like, don't talk about me. And I don't want to share too much about my personal life, too. But we want you to know we're all in this together. You know, we're all trying to figure it out, too. Matt and I are talking to our employees right now about an open enrollment. I'm helping two of my kids this week on open enrollment. So we're in the trenches with you, and we feel your pain. Yeah. And so. Yep. Okay.

All right, let's hit employers. Yes, let's talk about that. For employers, if you. If you have employees. Because we're talking about open enrollment. I want to talk about these two little options. These are. These are a little bit new. I think in the last five to 10 years, these have really taken off for small business owners trying to find an affordable healthcare plan for their employees, but also giving them some options. We've seen two big. Two big strategies come out. The first is what's called a QSEHRA Q S H ERA HRA and what that is, if you have less than 50 employees, this is basically a health reimbursement arrangement that you're offering to your employees. You're not giving them a health care plan. You're not saying, oh, we're using, you know, Blue Cross Blue Shield or we're using United and here's how much the employer is paying and here's how much you pay as an employee. That's not what that is. Instead you say, we are offering our reimbursement to you and it could be based on single or family or plus one. You can kind of decide you have some options there on what you want to reimburse and the employee then goes into the individual marketplace or they can just go to their own agent of choice and they buy the health insurance plan they want. It has to be qualifying. Everything on healthcare.gov would be qualifying, but they just have to go get a qualifying plan, then they qualify for the reimbursement. The nice thing about this is one, you are providing a health care benefit for your employee. Two, they, they can choose the fricking plan that they want, which is one of the reasons we like it. In our firm, we have four different offices in four states, different health networks and hospitals that don't accept this, but they take this and it's just nice. People are like, I can go pick whatever plan I want.

And three, the best and three is

it's a tax free reimbursement to the employee and it's an expense obviously to the employer.

Four is that you get to cap the cost. You can choose what that reimbursement level is when you go. The alternative that we all grew up with for the last 30, 40 years is you've got to go get a group healthcare plan and then they increase the rates every year by 20%. You have no control. Your employees get used to it. They get pissed when you make the change.

Now there is a minimum amount to qualify under the rules to have these types of plans of a minimum reimbursement amount you have to do, but it's reasonable. And I think for any employer that wants to add this and you know, you don't have to have health insurance for your employees if you have less than 50 employees. So you're not required to do this. But here's a cool thing about the Qsehra is your employees can still take the subsidy. So if you have some more entry level employees, they can still take the subsidy and get the reimbursement from you. And so that's a nice benefit because they can go get gold plans and platinum plans for Their whole fricking family take the reimbursement from you and you're not even. You might be only reimbursing a couple hundred bucks, but they're still taking advantage of the subsidy.

And now, by the way, we're going to come to those of you that are solopreneurs with some killer options here in a moment. Just let us unpack this employee piece. The next thing I would say too, this is a very important point. If you have less than 50 employees, you can still get any insurance you want. You can get the coolest kick ass health care policy for yourself and you do not have to do it for your employees. If you have less than 50 employees, you can still get health insurance and write off 100% of those premiums for yourself. It's a separate rule from the 401k world. Like you can't just go get a 401k for yourself and screw your employees over. Even if you have one full time employee. You got to play the game with them. But the health insurance exception is awesome. So for some of you, like, I'm not buying this for my employees.

Don't.

You can still game the system for yourself. Yeah. So, yeah.

And everybody's business is different. Some people pay their employees more. Some people have a lot of part time employees or a younger base of employees or a lot of turnover, temporary workers, whatever it is. And you're like, I just don't want to have to do this.

Okay.

But some people are like, no, I need this. This is an important benefit for retention and recruitment. My employees like this. I like to be able to get in a tax. Excellent master. Look at that. Qsehra. I think it's been a great option. Very, very popular now and growing now.

The Q, Sarah, is if you have less than 50 employees, once you have more than 50 employees, you go to the five Sara.

ICRA.

Yeah, ICRA.

Yeah, ICHRA. And that's basically the same thing. It's a reimbursement arrangement. With one catch of what we just said in the Qsehra with the Ichra is the employees can't get the subsidy. So when they go on to go like on healthcare.gov or to get any qualifying plan, they have to disclose the amount of the reimbursement and it effectively kicks them out of eligibility for any subsidies that they could get through healthcare.gov and so that kind of sucks because sometimes the employee's like, dang, now I can only get this plan, you know, and we've had this where we've gone over 50 employees and we have to go to the Ichra. And there's a little bit of pain for some of our employees and we had to change the reimbursement amount because they're like, dang, I don't get the subsidy anymore. You know, and so now I gotta downgrade my health insurance from what I had before.

Okay, now here's cool part. We've got some cutting edge points on this too. Now this. What if you don't have regular employees and this means full time employees that have been with you for more than two years or for more than a year or part time employees that have been with you for more than three years, you can drop down to an hra. Not the QSHRA or the Ichra. You can just go hra. And that's for the. Really the solopreneurs out there. They don't have full time or part time employees on a regular basis. It's just family. We love the HRA. It's often referred to as the 105 plan. We've been doing them for years, helping a lot of solopreneurs. So think of that reimbursement thing that we just discussed. Now you're reimbursing your spouse for your kids and you and you're kind of backdoored into the strategy. If you're single, we might employ that. This is the only time you'll hear these words fall from the lips of my mouth. Is a C corp. You might use a C corp strategy in a very limited situation. For single individuals that have high medical, we can backdoor in an HRA plan for them. You can't do it in an S corporation. So there's a couple techniques here we've got. We teach this in our class at the event in December. Please put it on your calendar. It's going to be awesome in Phoenix. But I'll make sure it's down in the description and this is in my book. But the HRA is for the small business owner and probably a good transition to.

Yeah. And if that's that HRA to for if you're like small business owner solopreneur like Mark's describing there and you've got high medical where you're like, I need to be able to write this off. Like not just the health insurance. I'm talking about like out of pocket medical. Like you have a kid with a significant medical issue or even yourself or a spouse.

Prescription drugs, co pays, dental, eyes. It could be a kid in rehab.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

So a Lot of. So great opportunity there. I've even used it a couple years for myself and sometimes so. So consider the HRA there. Now you want to move over to the hsa.

Yeah, and I want to put this, get this out there. I want to always confirm because there's Matt and I deal with so many different. Yeah, that's right. 502. If any of you wonder what you can write off, go to Publication 502. It's the list by the. It's like a little handbook from the IRS, Publication 502. And you can look at all the things that you can write off under any of these plans and what you can't. And so keep that in mind.

Okay.

All right.

So now we want to talk about health savings accounts. So let's say if you pick a plan that you're like, I want to do the health savings account strategy, which is. This is kind of two things in one, we're talking about health insurance because you need a qualifying health insurance plan, which you can get during open enrollment, but it also gives you the option to do a health Savings account or hsa. Now, the nice thing about an HSA is I can put in money, I get a tax deduction, I can invest the money and it comes out totally tax free for my qualifying medical expenses, regardless of income. I don't care if you're making millions of dollars a year. You can do the HSA where you get a tax section for it, where you're putting in. And this is, by the way, 2024 numbers. These numbers have gone up, which is great, 8300 bucks a year. 8300 is the amount you're going to be able to do for 2024 in an HSA for family or really, which is really you and a child or you and a spouse. You only need one of the head of household. Yeah, head of household accounts. They call it family under HSA rules though, or they were single, though, if you're just single, 4150. So you put 4150 bucks in. This is 2024 numbers for HSAs. You get a tax deduction. You can invest the money, you can even self direct it, and that money can come out for qualifying medical expenses, which can be dental, it could be your orthodontist, for your kids, it could be their prescription drugs. All this. This list of expenses Mark mentioned on publication 502. But you must have a qualifying plan, which is a high deductible plan. The deductible amount, by the way, for 2024 is 3200 bucks.

This HSA hands down is literally one of the best kept secrets for some. Oh, it's because insurance companies are evil and they don't want Americans to know it. But the Health Savings Account is one of the best kept secrets. And in the tax strategy realm, when accountants figure this out, they talk about it with all their clients. We have been singing the praises of the HSA for 10 plus years. They are incredible. We have an entire podcast dedicated to that. You have got to look at this now. Can you be unhealthy and still utilize an hsa? Yes. Can I have a HRA and an hsa? Yes. Can I am using HSA one year and not another year? Yes. Does that money continue to grow tax free even if I don't put new money in? Yes, it's transportable. It's like this bucket of money you get to carry around with you. Is it stuck at your employers wherever you work? No. You can pull it out at any point. It's not an IRA 401k type thing. There are. We could go on and on and on. But you've got to know about this because as Matt said earlier on, the number one reason for bankruptcy in America is medical expenses. And the number one reason people pull money out of retirement accounts early are for medical expenses. It's a chronic crisis in America, the cost of health care. So you can now self insure yourself in the most strategic ways. So just again, I mean we could go on and on but that, that's it now.

Now the Health Savings account just, you know that you set up the account separately. Now sometimes people will use like the provider that's associated with the health insurance company. You don't have to do that. You can move your Health savings account wherever you want. It could be a directed IRA if you wanted to self direct it. It could be just a broker dealer if you want to trade stocks like a TD Ameritrade. Sometimes they're just actual savings accounts. And I want to talk about the HSA because people use it in different ways and I've even used it in different ways over my time. I love the HSA because I want that tax deduction every year, right? And I got the family, so I'm getting a larger amount, get a tax deduction. I'm gonna use that money in medical. All three of my daughters had to have braces and two of them had to have them twice. You know, they got dentists. We've got just enough medical in the year. We're gonna spend that 5,7000 bucks a year in medical and I want to get the tax deduction. If I didn't pay those expenses. All those out of pocket expenses I have out of my health savings account and I just incurred them personally. No tax deduction on my tax return. I itemized them, they would track them all, wrote them down. It's a ridiculous amount. Nobody gets to actually write those off so. But using the health savings account, at first I was able to use those, get the tax deduction and then cover the medical that I knew I was going to have. Now I don't have as much medical. The kids braces are off, they're older. So now it's an investment savings strategy for me. Later on I know when I get older I'm going to want money in a health savings account. You could cover long term care. When we hit this, our 60s and these older age, you're going to have a lot more medical and you're going to be wishing you had a health savings account of six figures.

I love it. Also you get the early bird discount at Waffle House and Denny's. Just want to point that out.

And discounted movie tickets.

Seniors, I'm ready to go. Okay, now let's get technical. For some of you here, I'm going to lay out the strategy in a different way. If you are a solopreneur again, which is a good chunk of our followers, we love that. And you guys with that have employees, we've thrown out some strategies there. But for those of you that are solopreneurs, here's the real way to game this. You use the hra, single or married, to write off all of your expenses in the given year. Meanwhile, you're contributing to the HSA and getting 100% deduction. That money grows tax free, comes out tax free in the future, but you still got an immediate write off your current medical. Now if you have the financial wherewithal to go with it, that's what you kind of want to, that's what your game, that's the, that's the strategy. Meanwhile, you're funding your Roth IRA. You're getting a 401k match with your spouse at work. You're buying your rental. Every year, folks, you will be multi millionaires within 10 years. That, that, it is really that doable. Now a technical rule and I just wanted to throw this out, we were covering this with our. By the way, I'll say this too. You can meet with any of our tax lawyers at the law firm and they will walk you through this. You can just pay them per hour. It'll save you 10 to 20 times whatever you pay us. To have one of the tax lawyers help guide you through this. We'd like to build you a trifecta and an overall plan. This is just one piece of a good plan. Any of the tax advisors on the TaxPro network, that's@markjcohler.com, all the tax advisors are trained on this as well. So you can find a tax advisor to help prep your returns. Use the tax lawyer to build a more robust plan with asset protection as well. And you're really just bringing it all together. So in one of our trainings, here's the important rule. If you're going to do an HRA HSA combo, I'll just give the technical rule here. You can play in the HRA for medical and for dental and vision only and still fund your hsa. But once you meet the deductible in your hsa, then you can use the HRA for everything above dental and vision. So there's a procedure here where if you really want to contribute to the HSA and use the hra, you've got to look at what's called a limited purpose hra and you kind of game it. And so you're looking at dental vision in any out of pocket medical, you still get credit for it even though you have the hsa. I know it sounds so complex, but once you get. We've got little tables and we, our attorneys and our advisors know how to walk you through this. But people, we're talking thousands of thousands of dollars in tax savings.

Yeah. And it's one of those things you just got to focus in and kind of get it for one year so you know what to do. And then you've got the right strategy. You're going to be generally doing the same thing every year thereafter unless your medical or life situation changes. But a lot of people are leaving money on the table, getting the wrong coverage, not using the HRA or health savings account when they could help them. And they're just, they had a bad strategy and they're missing opportunities to better have coverage and to save on taxes. So I think just getting focused on it for one year, making sure you understand these rules and how it works, getting a plan. And then like that time you put in, just remember you're gonna be needing this every year. Like that time invested. It sounds painful. And I know you're like, I don't want to have to learn all this Stuff. I just want to click through the buttons and be done with it. No, strategize. Figure this out for yourself. That's going to help you every year.

And my final call to action is if you're a parent, if you're a grandparent, your kids don't even know this is there. It's a blind spot. We have so many kids in their 20s that are starving for financial literacy and some that don't even know they need it. And this is a great opportunity to have your family board meeting between now and the end of the year with your rental property, your s Corporation, your LLCs. We've talked about this on other shows. This is a tax deductible retreat as a family to talk about these issues. Get your kids up to speed on this, learn enough about it that you can diagram a few things and say, hey, do your own. Consult with one of the lawyers or the advisors, then turn around and share it. When you share it, oh, you're going to learn it and you're going to help your kids go to the next level so that they're not trying to figure it out 30 years from now.

Love it. All right, do it, people. Yeah, do it. Healthcare.gov might be different in your state, by the way. Yeah, disclaimer there.

But my challenge was get a consult, Get a consult with one of the tax lawyers for your year end planning. We will be literally booked out for December. Within another few to three to four weeks, December will be packed because all people, all the real business owners and investors realize that all the planning is in December. Our tax advisor network will be. We're prepping them for an onslaught of advisory calls. This is. So I'm going to just say now, get an appointment. Get your trifecta. Get a comprehensive plan. Yeah.

And also subscribe to the show. If you listen to this show, why have you not subscribed yet? Just admit your nerdiness. Admit that you like this stuff. You know, as dorky as it is. And as you pretend like you don't listen, you know, or like if someone else gets in the car, you're like changing it over to music. I don't listen to a tax and legal podcast, but just get over there and subscribe. It does help other people find the show. And also you get reminded when we have a new podcast coming up.

I love it. Thanks, everyone. See you next week.