The IRS is After Your Crypto - What You Need to Know

A live broadcast on cryptocurrency. The irs. We are here to answer your questions, give you some pretty cool advice. We got like, oh my gosh, like 10 different tips here. I'm here with the amazing Darren Charrington, another fellow tax lawyer engineer. I mean, this guy is a brainiac. Walking brain. We were commenting on his head size earlier.

It's just I cannot get hats that fit me. Yeah, it's impossible. Gives me a headache.

Well, it's just you have so much brain going on in there. So. Something, Something. Yeah, something. A lot of loose thoughts of some sort. Well, my name's Mark Kohler, CPA attorney, bestselling author. We're gonna give away some stuff today. We're gonna give away some books randomly to our viewers today. We wanna welcome you on YouTube and, or Facebook. And I'm also gonna give away a free virtual ticket to our Miami Crypto Tax Summit coming up in May. That's a $300 value. We're going to give it away to one person today on this live broadcast. We're going to talk about what the IRS is doing right now in their efforts to make sure we, as Americans that have cryptocurrency in some form or fashion pay our taxes. And we're going to give you some tips and strategies of ways to deal with that. We are only going to be with you here for less than an hour. We want to answer your questions. So that brings us to the Crypto Tax Summit, which is a two day event which is going to have so much of this information. I don't know. Can we cover it all in an hour?

I don't know, but we could cover it in two days.

Yeah, that's right, that's right. We can't. It's going to be good. We're going to put it together so well. Let's talk about some general tax principle or let's get into it. And I've got. We're going to go to the whiteboard here in a minute. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. We got probably literally 10 points we want to make on how the IRS is coming after your cryptocurrency. Now, you choose. You can talk about any of these ones that we ran through before we started the camera. You choose one, you get it? It's all you, baby. What do you want?

First thing, I want to talk about how our tax system works. Okay, Right. So we're a self reporting tax system. Okay. And I get this all the time. People come in and they're like, oh, well, they're not issuing any kind of 1099s. The IRS doesn't know that I own this crypto, whatever the case is. And so on our cryptocurrency transactions, we have to self report it. And the thing is they, they know, they're looking for that.

That's point number two.

That is.

That's pretty.

I'm getting ahead of myself.

Okay, yeah, you're like, you're trying to jump point to. But point number one, everybody is. You have to know that under the IRS code, when you sign your tax return, you are self reporting. If you didn't get a 1099, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you have a 1099 or you got a W2 or someone paid you in cash if you say, well, they paid me under the table. No, you still need to report that. If you lie on your tax return, you can go to jail. And what about defi or some of these mysterious wallets in Eastern Europe? Can I hide from the IRS with those?

No, you can't. Now. And that's the thing, right, is that we're getting all this cryptocurrency, everything is publicly traceable on the blockchain.

Which brings us to point two, which I like what came out this week in Congress.

So, yeah, there was a, a hearing a little while ago talking about, actually it was talking about criminal activities in the blockchain. And they were, they had a representative from Ukraine talking about sanctions and all that. But there was a, there's a company there, there's a few blockchains, analytics companies, but there was a representative from Chainalysis.

Okay.

And they were asking them how much of this is used for illicit activity, which is very low, by the way. Anyway. But one of the questions that was interesting is they're like, well, somebody asked them, what transactions are you tracking to find this? And the representative from chain analysis is like, well, all transactions, right? Everything is found. And so they're, they're looking at all of it. And granted, they're, they're mixers and they're ways that people try to keep this private, but that inevitably is going to be broken. They're working on it. So.

All right, so point being looked at. I love it. Everything is viewable. So in. The IRS is going to be a big client of these analytic companies that can analyze blockchain public blockchain transactions and work backwards to your transactions. Okay, so we've got, we are self reporting as citizens of the United States. Number two, there are companies already analyzing the blockchain and prepared to give the IRS reports when they want them. Number three. And then we're going to get on to our tax return, everybody. And there's great questions already coming up here. So we're going to. We're going to talk, and we're going to give away a book here every 15 minutes. This is the tax and legal playbook. If you are an investor, a small business owner, have a side hustle, you're making any sort of income outside of a day job of any sort, you need this book to help protect your assets, save taxes. You'll love it. It's just a great little handbook. The third point I want to make real quick is as US Citizens, you're taxed on your worldwide income. Until you give up your citizenship, you're taxed on your worldwide income. Which that means even if Matt Damon in the movie Martian would have sold some potatoes to some aliens that flew by and stopped in and said, hey, you got some potatoes for sale? He's like, as a matter of fact, I do. And he sold him some potatoes. The IRS would be waiting. When he got back down to NASA and they picked them up, they'd say, IRS would say, you owe us on that money you made selling potatoes to those aliens. That's how it works. You are taxed on your worldwide income. Now, there are some unique rules in Puerto Rico, but that's about it. So as a US Citizen, you're going to be paying taxes everywhere. So whether you own your crypto in a wallet where you think no one will ever see it, or you didn't get a 1099, it doesn't matter. You're taxed on worldwide income tax. And that goes back to point number one. We have to self report or you go to jail. That was my third point. Which brings us to the tax return. You want to tell everybody what's going on here? Corey, can you show us the whiteboard?

Yeah. And the IRS has a handful of topics that they're really focused on. Cryptocurrency is actually one of them.

Maybe number one right now.

Yeah, it's up there. They're definitely taking a hard look at it. So on the tax return, you can see that Corey pulled it up right here. It says, at any time during 2021, did you receive, sell, exchange, or otherwise dispose of any financial interest in virtual currency?

Yes or no?

Yes or no? If you did, you better dang well check that box.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, here's a couple thoughts. Corey, you can take us off there. Everybody I know many of you have already seen this. You know about it. But let me point out a couple points. The IRS did an FAQ frequently asked question release on their website that said if you purchase crypto, if you. All you do is purchase cryptocurrency, you can check the box. No, but you notice the word in there? When Darren read it, it said, did you receive any cryptocurrency? Now, receiving could be rewards from staking. It could be mining. If you. It could be. What'd you say? Airdrops. It could be a variety of ways you received crypto. You need to report that. But if you just simply buy crypto and you didn't sell any, you can check the box. No, if you had crypto and traded crypto for. If you say, well, I had Litecoin and I traded it for Ethereum in a phantom wallet last year once, that's taxable. That's got to be reported. Well, I didn't convert it to US Dollars. I didn't convert it back to my fiat. That's okay. It's taxable. So you've got to report all that. Now, I want to say is extending bad. What's your take on extending?

Extending is perfect, especially in a situation like this, because we're, we're hoping and maybe a little bit expecting that the IRS is actually going to come out. Some future guidance here.

Yeah, right.

So if we can extend and they come out with some guidance here in the next couple months, it can make your taxes easier. The other thing is it brings down auto risk.

It does, it does. You know, people, okay, we're on the cusp. Ten days away. April 15th. Well, it's April 18th this year because the 15th is on a Friday. So you have until April 18th to file. Today's the 8th. You've got 10 days. Now, some of you are like, why just use TurboTax? And then you see that question on crypto. Just file a freaking extension. Is form 4868 really easy? So 4864. Did I do that? Did I say the wrong form? Oh, my gosh. This is like, you know, accountant 101. But you want to have your extension filed and you actually reduce your chances of an audit. It's 4868. I was right. And if we go up to the whiteboard, Corey, a Form 4868 basically says, I need more time to file my tax return. There's no penalty. You can go download this form online and just say, I need six more months. Now it's not an extension to pay if you still need to. If you owe, you want to still send in some money, but you might get a refund. So. But it's six more months to file, not pay. You still need to pay some sort of estimate. Now over on my website, I'll take you there in a moment. I have an article on how much you need to estimate to send in with your extension. But people just like Darren said here, you actually reduce your chances of an audit. You can wait to figure out your crypto story for last year and then file. It's okay. File an extension. That's probably one of the biggest messages from this I want to say podcast, but broadcast. Okay, Darren, what do you any thoughts more on extending? And I'm going to bring them over to my, my,

I don't have any. Any more thoughts on extending. But you, you touched on some points, though, that I think a lot of people do get a little bit confused about sometimes.

Okay.

So just understanding when the taxable event occurs I think is probably one of the bigger points that we'll want to go over. So.

Okay, here, let's show before you do that one.

Perfect. Yeah, let's do that.

Corey, back up on the screen. We're there. Okay, so how much should I send in with my April 18th extension? So right here, if you go over to markjkohler.com I've got in here five general guidelines. And so these, I've got examples in there. I've got a little tax table you can go through here and just kind of figure out what's at. How much should I send in with my extension? Easy, schmeezy people. And so don't stress about that. It's not the end of the world. Okay, now before you give to your list, I want to take a couple questions and give a book away. I want to give a book away to Mimi. Mimi's going to be my first question where I need to be able to see the full question the way the layout is. And you can take off the whiteboard, please. All right. I saw that while filing tax return. Just say no. Okay, Mimi, I am glad you brought this up because. Because this is something that I know you're probably just joking and I hope you are because everybody, if you do not file your tax return or an extension in 10 days from now, the penalties add up fast. And if you get audited and you lied about the fact you had some crypto transactions last year, now we're talking possible jail time and the penalties can Be quadruple because you're now a criminal. And that's not a good thing. So everybody, what I would say, Mimi, is don't check the box, file an extension. Come to the Crypto Tax conference down in Miami in six weeks. Learn some more strategies, then go file your tax return. By the way, our Miami event, two full days so far, we're going to have a welcome reception, we're going to have a networking breakfast, both lunches. You're sitting at tables with like minded people that are doing the strategy that you are with cryptocurrency. You can choose a table on metaverse, a table on NFTs, a table on Capital Gain, Charitable Trust. And then the last night, Friday night, we are going to have a party. Yes, all the nerds, we're going to have a cover band, we're going to have a cocktail party. It's going to be a lot of fun. You can watch the whole thing virtual. I'm going to give away a virtual ticket here in a bit. But come down to Miami. It's a lot of fun and we've got a room block. We're going to be at the Pullman Airport. Pullman, you don't have to rent a car. There's a shuttle from the airport straight to the hotel. It's going to be a blast. So Corey will have that link down in the comments below and you can just register@CryptoTaxSummit.com Now, Mimi just won a book, the Tax and Legal Playbook. There we go. And Mimi, you have to email and I'll put this out for everybody that wins today. Email Corey. He's my producer here. Corey C o R E yarkjcohler.com so we'll put that up on the whiteboard in a bit. But you've got to email Corey. He is tracking your handle and your name so no one can say I'm Mimi. I'm Mimi. Well, we know who you are. Okay, now also one other thing and then you can start on your list. Everybody down there in the chat, on YouTube or Facebook, I am not posting. If you see any picture of me saying you to an offer for crypto or for offer for anything, it is bullcrap. These are scam artists. Avoid it like the plague. Do not click on it, do not comment. It just infuriates me. I'm so sorry that whoever on Facebook is able to pull that off. So I am not. All the comments and all the giveaways are going to be right here. So do not look at any Comments on Facebook that have a picture of me. Okay, so, Darren, we talked about income worldwide. File an extension. Self reporting. Five years in prison if you lie on the first question on your tax return. We gave away a book. You said we passed over something pretty cool. What was your list? What do you want to talk about?

Yeah, and is it okay if I give a little bit of a story?

Yes, I love a story.

Literally got off a call 30 minutes ago with a client who's been trading cryptocurrency for the past five years. Oh, just like what Mimi was unfortunately saying. Their accountant was like, oh, just check.

No, you're kidding.

I'm not kidding.

Wow.

And so seriously, if your accountant knows that you've been trading cryptocurrency and she had hundreds of thousands of dollars that she has made in cryptocurrency and her accountant is telling her to check. No. Kick that accountant to the curb.

Yeah, I get rid of. Well, you could. You could definitely sue that accountant for that advice.

Absolutely terrible. But one thing that came up with her, though, and this maybe. I don't know if this is where the accountant was going from, but what she thought was the case is that she's like, okay, well, I'm only taxed when I sell my crypto for US Dollars. And you earlier had mentioned if you trade Bitcoin to Ethereum, if you do anything, right, Any trade, anytime you dispose of a specific currency is a taxable event. And that's when you have to.

Let's go to Whiteboard. Corey. Let's do that, everybody. And then we're going to do some more questions here. There are three transactions that are taxable. Now, we go over this in the first section of the summit. We spend a whole hour and a half just on capital gain strategies. Short term capital gain, long term capital gain. We'll come to NFTs here in a minute. But three transactions, if you sell your crypto to Fiat, you know, which might be US Dollars for you. You know, some of you watching here in the United States, you bought a coin, you trade it back to US Dollars, your fiat, that's taxable. What'd you buy it for? What'd you sell it for? Easy, schmeezy. Oh, but there's more. Number two, you trade one crypto for another. So whatever you're trading that current fair market value for a new one, you have to look at what you bought the crypto for that you just traded, that gain in the middle is taxed. So trade one crypto for another, and then the Third time your crypto is taxed is if you use it for a purchase. So you're using crypto in a purchase, like you say, well, I'm going to go buy a Tesla car. Now, one thing that you can do with. And oh, by the way, yes, my marketing coordinator people can buy the ticket to the summit with cryptocurrency.

Correct.

Right now on the site. Okay, that'll be on by Monday, if not, if not sooner. Okay. Right now at our law firm, you can use our law firm or accounting firm services and pay for it with crypto. So when you pay for a purchase with crypto, it's as if you sold it. And so now, right now, everybody, if you want to, we've got general admission, we've got virtual, we got VIP tickets, we got. I don't trying to be too infomercially. I'll be careful here, but we have 10% off on all of the tax summit in Miami. 10% off by Monday. And I'll give you the discount code here in a minute. Okay, let's do some questions. Okay. Go back up, Corey. Go back. Okay. Venkra LLC says, even I don't know how much crypto I've, I have all over the place. How would anyone else know? Lol Vencra. Let's talk about blockchain analytics. This is really, really important. So the IRS sends you a letter.

Yeah. And you can even do this yourself. Right.

Well, I'm just saying, you get audited and the IRS wants to track you

down, you want to look at it, they'll look at your accounts. Right now, if anyone's interested in this, you can look up blockchain explorers for any type of cryptocurrency. Right. So Etherscan IO is a great one for Ethereum. You can go in and it'll tell you what the latest transactions are with a wallet address for that. Now, the important thing for crypto to remember, crypto is pseudonymous, meaning your name is maybe not always associated with it, but it's definitely not anonymous. So all of those transactions are publicly viewable. And once they find the address for the different wallets and accounts that you're using, they can backtrack that to, say, your bank account or whenever you moved it onto an exchange.

And.

And these analytics companies are super, super good at doing this.

Yeah.

So if they want to audit you and they want to look into your past history and your past transactions, they'll find it.

Yeah. And some of you may be saying, well, hold it, I, I don't even Know where all my crypto is. Well, it all started somewhere, and that's the purpose of blockchain. So whatever you have now, the IRS can, with these analytics software, and these companies can go backwards to your original purchase. Now, some of you that have small businesses may go, well, I took cash here. Someone paid me with Venmo here, and someone paid me with PayPal here, and someone paid me with Apple Pay here. I don't know where I got paid. Well, you better figure it out, guys. I hate to say this. Vencra, llc, and all of you, ignorance is not a defense. It's too complex. Is not a defense. The IRS will be on you until they figure it out. And if you lie, it's not good. I. Gosh, I don't know how to be even more somber about this. Thanks. For those of you that already have my tax and legal playbook, people are asking, you know, I want the book. Just be patient. We'll do a little drawing here. We're gonna give away another book in five minutes. Cory's gonna get to choose. Okay. John Eldon Godfrey Jr. I don't know if this is John Godfrey, the John Godfrey I knew from Salt Lake City. Oh, my gosh. He's got the hashtag Edge Hill. I know John Godfrey. Shout out to John. I love this guy. I. Oh, my gosh. I knew John 20 years ago. Okay, so John says, hey, Mark, is a crypto swap a taxable event now? I mean, is he just saying, I swapped one crypto for another crypto? There's so much vernacular out there.

Any thoughts? I would say yes. From what I understand, it sounds like he's just swapping bitcoin for Ethereum. One crypto for another, basically. Right. Let's say you buy Bitcoin for 100 bucks worth of bitcoin, right? And then you switch it out to Ethereum. At $200, you now have $100 of gains that you're going to have to pay taxes on.

Yeah, yeah. I want to say this, people. Go back down. Corey, again. If anybody is offering for you to send in bitcoin and get a trade and get more crypto, it's a scam. Stay away from it. Avoid it. Go back up a little bit. Joan of America, bless her heart, we got a Trump fan out there, and that's cool. I'm bipartisan here. I'm going to. I want to not be whatever, okay? She says when Trump is back politically, because he did win, this BS will all be irrelevant. Everybody. And, Joan, I appreciate everybody's passionate about their candidate. But I will say this. Even if Trump did get reelected or whatever, this is not going away. You are taxed on your worldwide income. Whether you earn it on PayPal, selling sandwiches down at the farmer's market, or you trade crypto in a phantom wallet in eastern Yugoslavia, you're going to be taxed on it. So be careful. Okay? I'm a make my own crypto guy or something. Lol. Okay, we'll let that go. Okay, Gerald, great question, Gerald. I'm gonna let Darren answer this one. Can you invest your crypto gains into an opportunity zone investment and defer taxes?

I love that question. Yes. So opportunity zones are very specific situations for real estate, actually. And it's a great way to be able to avoid your crypto gains or at least defer them for a little bit. So the idea is that the government went out and selected specific geographical areas where you can go and buy real estate. Now, if you buy the real estate, there are some requirements. You have to double the basis in the property within 30 months. I believe it is, yes. And if you can do that, your crypto gains are deferred until December of 2026. And then probably the better benefit that's coming out of this even is that if you hold that property for at least 10 years, when you sell the property, you'll get stepped up basis and not have any capital gains on the new property.

Now what he just said for some of you, that your brains just went to jelly. This is why his head's so big and hats don't fit him. He talked about opportunity zones, which is a real estate strategy, kind of like 1031 exchanges and they're more flexible. And yes, you can take crypto gains that you've had in the past and take those gains and push them into an opportunity zone, maybe as even some gains you had in 2021, there's a time frame and that time frame slowly running out because it's a six month window, if I'm correct. So we're now on 410 or 4 8, April 8th. So if you had some sales in November, December of last year, you can still take some advantage of some of these strategies. But we talk about opportunity zones at the crypto tax summit. Okay, I'm going to do a real estate question. I love this. And then Corey, you can tell us who the winner of a book is. Wendy says, I inherited a rental owned by three siblings. Do we just need an LLC or land trust? Well, Wendy, everybody, this is so good because she's bringing into question. It can get complex quickly. And I like her question because this means you need a consult. You've got to get this figured out. So did Wendy inherit one property and owns it 100% or does she own a third of a property with three with her two other siblings? How long ago did she inherit it? Because when she inherited it, she got stepped up basis. But now it's worth 500 grand. When she inherited, it was worth 300 grand. When do they pay taxes? Are they going to pay taxes? But her question was LLC or land trust? 98.9% of the time you're going to do an LLC. The land trust is a privacy strategy to keep your name off public public record. We're not opposed to land trusts. They can be very helpful for a privacy strategy. I have a whole chapter in my book on privacy and we hit land trust. But Wendy, you're going to go LLC with your two siblings to hold a rental property every day of the week and on Sunday. Corey, who's the winner of our book? Jose Santos is the winner. Now, Corey, if you can put up the white. Oh, by the way, throw up the whiteboard and Jose Santos. Look at this right there again on markjkohler.com all I did is I went over to the blog window and typed in opportunity zones. Here's an opportunity zone article. You can hit that, read on it and figure out, oh, I can take crypto and do an opportunity zone. And here's all the strategies and it comes with a little video. Very, very helpful. Okay. And then Corey, we want to say anybody out there that wins a book today or the free ticket must be present to win here, stay on the broadcast. Here, stay on the broadcast. If you win today, all you have to do is email coreyarkjkohler.com and get your info over to Corey and he'll mail you out this book and I'll sign it for you. Make sure, yes, I am signing those books. If you would. Okay, everyone else, even if you don't win a book today, you can get 10% off the crypto tax summit by using the code. Here it is, everybody. It is. And I wrote it down here. Early bird. Boy, my spelling is bad. I'm going to try it again. Early Bird 10. If you do Early Bird 10, you get 10% off@CryptoTaxSummit.com and we have a VIP for 12 people only. You get 10% off that today. That's just 200 off today. And it we. Well, I'll say through the weekend, we're doing this 10 off, and we're going to be on a dinner cruise through Miami with me and Matt. 12 people only. It's going to be pretty freaking sweet. That's on Corey. Corey, you're not.

And Darren.

Wait, you guys want to be on the. On the yacht? It's a yacht. It's not just a boat.

Oh, yeah.

Well, we're going to be on a little skip. We're going to go out to, like, Key west for nine hours later. Okay. All right, let's do a question here. Okay. A Peter says, how are staking rewards taxed? Corey, can you take us off whiteboard? A Peter says, how are staking rewards taxed? Well, actually, go back to whiteboard. We got three options on staking rewards. And Darren, my friends, is an expert on this. So I'm going to play Pictionary here and I'll try to diagram this. Okay, we have A, B or C.

Okay, so staking, starting out. Staking is a loaded term.

Yeah. It can mean a lot of things.

It can mean a lot of things. Okay, now true staking, or more traditional staking is going to be. Essentially, you're setting up a rig on a network, Right. Some kind of. Some kind of blockchain node. Right.

You got. You got your own node. You're running the show.

There's some hardware that's associated with it. This is a computer on there.

You're in charge.

You're in charge. So these people are what we would call validators, right?

Yep.

And so if you're an actual validator and you're running the node, you're the node operator, then this is going to be subject to SE tax. Business income, 100%.

Just like you run a restaurant.

Like you're running a restaurant.

Yep. And you're going to want to run this through an S corporation. We set these up for node operators and miners all the time. Now, on the other extreme, because it kind of makes life easier. Let's go to the other extreme. Some of you are like, okay, I'm on Coinbase or some. Some exchange. And they have a staking option.

Yes.

I can say I want to stake and they're going to do everything for me. I'm not going to make as much as when I was a node operator, but I'll still make something. How's that taxed?

That would be passive.

Passive. Yes. And we are going to call that with an O. Other income.

Yes.

So everybody, for you accountants out there, does this go on schedule D?

No.

No. Schedule C?

No.

Schedule E?

No.

The form.

Throw out some more letters.

Yeah, no, we've got the form here. The form is 89. No, no, it's not even form 8949.

Schedule one.

It is schedule one. So any of you that are trying to do your crap on TurboTax, which I caution you to be very, very careful, you would go to schedule one, line eight.

Line eight.

Oh, man, I was good to remember that. Line eight, other income.

Okay. Chances are there's going to be a special spot for it later, but for now, that's where you put it. Yeah.

IRS will get their crap together for next year. Yes. Now, everybody is probably wondering what is in column B? Who, how? I'm not passive. I'm not a node operator who's kind of in this gray area and what do they do?

Yeah. So there's. There's a gray area right, where we're gonna essentially look at. There's a few different factors they look at to determine is this active income subject to se or is it still gonna be passive income? Right. So if you have another job, you're just kind of doing some crypto every now and then on the side as a passive investment. That's where you can still keep it as passive income. Now, if you're doing crypto a lot, right, making some good money off of it, this is now how you make your living. We're probably going to want to tax it as active income and pay some SE tax.

And what Darren is saying is what lawyers love to say. Column B, Depends.

It depends.

It depends. And those are not special diapers for those that have struggling bowel syndrome. This is depends, meaning your facts are going to tell us how this is going to be taxed. So we're going to look at how involved you are, where your staking operation takes place. You might end up in A, you might end up in C. We don't know. This is where you get with your accountant that knows what the hell they're doing, and you go try to nail this on TurboTax. You can get jacked up. Okay, we're going to do two questions and then I'm going to give away another book. Joanne in San Ramon. I love her question here. She says, crypto seems to be very overwhelming. And I wonder if I missed the boat. Yes, crypto is very like any new investment. Some clients are like, real estate is overwhelming. I don't know where to buy my first rental. Crypto is overwhelming. I don't know what coin to buy. The first thing I would say is, everybody cryptocurrency is like any other investment. It takes a little bit of research, knowledge, networking, education. Corey, I wanted to. We'll do the one right below that too. And so I wanted to let Joanne know. Don't get overwhelmed and just walk away. Do some research, start watching some, some YouTube channels and podcast and listening to some podcasts on crypto. And I don't think you've missed the boat there. This is here to stay. There's going to be an. There's going to be opportunities to make money with crypto. I'm not selling you crypto today. Please do not look at any post there from me. I'm not trying to sell you. She did say she opened up a self directed IRA account at our self directed IRA company. Oh, if you did. Oh, if you open up a self directed IRA account with our service. So you're doing this in your Roth or traditional. We are not going to help you pick out your investments. It's a self directed account, meaning you yourself are directing what we put in it. But that's okay. Your stock broker is not going to sell your crypto either. They might sell you a fund that owns crypto, but they ain't going to sell you crypto. So Joanne, do your research and you can open your own Roth ira. And with a little bit of research, choose some of the mainstream coins, get involved. Something like that.

Yeah. I recommend a good place to start might be to go to like coinmarketcap.com or coingecko.com and just look at Buy market cap, look at maybe the top hundred crypto tokens.

Okay.

Generally those ones are going to be fairly legit. And then do some additional research on those ones. If you're going to start doing the newer stuff, that's when you get riskier. And the lower market cap stuff, higher risk. A lot, a lot higher risk, but maybe some potentially higher rewards as well.

Okay, MC and Jennifer, I want to take these two questions and gosh, Rolo, I love these three questions in a row. Jennifer, MC and Rolo, we're going to hit him. Oh my gosh. And Juan, you guys are asking freaking awesome questions. I love you. Okay, now. Okay, you choose one.

Yeah, let's start at the top. Okay. Jennifer says, when do I send out my first K1? At the end of the year or the beginning? Somebody told me in the beginning and that does not make much sense to me.

Okay, let's talk about what a K1 is. And then you tell her, yes, you could have an 1120s, which is an S Corp or you could have a 1065, which is a partnership. This means you have an LLC with a couple partners or you have your own S Corp and you're doing a business of some sort. Now here's the thing. When your 1120s makes money, it has to kick out a K1 to the owners. If you have a 1065, it kicks out K1s to the ownership. Jennifer's question is a little unique because she says, when do I send out my first K1? You're not going to send it out. Your accountant? I don't know. You go ahead. I'm cutting into your question. What do you want to say?

Yeah, no, you're right. Your accountant will be doing that. Get it. Get a payroll team. Get somebody to help you out with this for an 1120s, which is, I think, what Jennifer is asking about.

You think so Maybe you're going to get a W2.

You'll get a W2 and a K1. Yes. Now, there's going to be a few filings for that. There's your annual filing. That's March 15th. But if you have an S corporation set up, you're going to have quarterly payroll reports that are due. And this is where you'll determine what is going to be K1, what's going to be W2. And so your first annual or quarterly report that's due is going to be April 30th.

Okay, now hold it. You're getting in a quarterly report. She's asking about a K1. Okay, so let me cut you off and say a K1 is when you file a tax return. So this year in 2022, what's everybody doing? They are filing their 2021 tax return. Now, right now, if you're. You were supposed to send out K1s by March 15 unless you filed an extension. So, Jennifer, you may have already missed the boat. And by the way, it's a 3 to $400 a month penalty per K1 per month if you didn't do it by March 15 and file an extension. So you better get your crap together and find out real quick if you miss that. Now, if you're still like, no, no, no, I filed an extension. You have until September 15th to mail out the K1 to yourself or your partners, whatever the hell you're doing. So. But guys, I'm telling you, if you have an S Corp or a 1065 partnership, you better freaking get an accountant involved. This is not something you're going to knock out yourself. So, Jennifer, your question concerns me because you're like, when do I send out my first K1? Yeah. I don't want you sending a K1. Let your accountant do that. Okay. MC says, what about NFT capital gains? Two types of NFTs. Tell us, Darren.

Yeah, so we're going to break these up typically into utility NFTs and collectible NFTs.

Well, do you want to tell them how they're taxed? You're just going to leave it at that? Do you want me to tell them?

That'll be good, yeah.

Okay. Collectibles, that's when you buy one of these unique images. That's an nft, that's a collectible.

And basically where its value is based on its rarity or its esthetics. Yeah.

So you sell it less than 12 months, you hold it to more than 12 months, you hold it one day, you love it, you hate it, you put it in your metaverse. None of that matters. It's taxed at 28% fed. Done.

That's it.

Now, if you have a utility NFT, then it matters. Did you hold it less than 12 months? Did you hold it 12 months or more? And we're going to get into what's called short term capital gain, and we're going to get into what's long term capital gain. If you create an NFT, that's going to be ordinary income because you built something. It's like you wrote a book, you created art, or you created something that's a whole other type of income. You're not trading a collectible, you actually built something. And then over here, you're actually trading something that has a utilitarian use. So MC NFT is. This is why the Crypto Tax Summit, we're doing a whole hour just on everything NFTs, and we're going to give away NFTs and all of you that attend the Miami Crypto Tax Summit to get an NFT just for attending. It's going to be freaking awesome. Okay, we got to give away a book. Corey, who's our next winner? Pedro Colli. Pedro Cali just won a book and he says, I have dual citizenships. What if I bought crypto from the other country? Pedro, you've got to see a really good accountant because you're going to be doing taxes in the us you're going to be doing taxes in your home country. And the IRS has special rules for those with dual citizenship and where you spend your time. It's beyond the scope of today. You've got to make sure you have a good Freaking accountant. And it doesn't matter where you bought the crypto or where your butt was when you did buy, comes down to the treaty between the United States and your home country and how dual citizenship income is taxed. So good luck there. What else did I want to say? I want to tell you guys I love you. I just love this. I'm having fun. I do. I just. I've had a very stressful week. I've torn every employee in my office a new one. It hasn't been good. You know, Cory and yesI'm lucky they're here, but it's been a long week and I just love doing a live event and love this topic and Darren, thank you. Little knuckle bump. Okay. All right. Now, before we answer another question, Darren, we need to do this. At the very beginning, we told all of you the IRS is coming after your crypto. We talked about that. You have to self report your tax on your worldwide income. There's blockchain analytic companies that will track your trading down and it will be given to the IRS if you get audited. I don't care if it's in a defi wallet in the middle of nowhere. Number four, file an extension. If you're afraid of checking the box, yes or no for last year, just file a damn extension. Gives you six months to get your crap together. Am I swearing too much? Okay, number five, we're self reporting and there is no such thing as a crypto tax. But let's talk about all the different taxes that might exist. All right, you talk. All right.

And we've already covered a couple of these, right? So we've got our capital gains. We can break up into our short term capital gains when we've held it less for than 12 months. And our long term capital gains.

Okay, what are the rates on these?

Short term capital gains are going to be at your ordinary income rate.

So whatever bracket you're in, Whatever bracket

you're in can go up to 37%. Right?

Up to 37%. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

Decent amount.

Okay.

On top of that.

So if I hold the crypto for less than 12 months, I could pay up to 37%?

Yeah.

Okay. Now if I hold it for more than 12 months, capped at 20. Okay. And it's called long term capital gain capital gains.

So it'll be either at 0, 15 or 20%.

0, 15 or 20%. Now, I want to also give a shout out to taxbit.com. taxbit.com is the sponsor of our crypto tax summit. They will be presenting for an hour on the software procedures of how to upload all of your transactions to produce the form 8929. Did I get the right form 8949? 8949. Because you need software to generate that, everybody. So that hour alone will save you so much headache. Okay, so we got capital gains tax. What's the next one you want to hit?

Capital gains tax. You mentioned the collectible tax already. Collectible for any of the collectible NFTs.

Collectible NFTs. Okay, we'll save that the crapper for the end. Okay, collectible NFTs are 28%. This is all federal, by the way.

Yeah, okay.

All right, now what's the next tax?

Okay, we're going to have our regular ordinary income business tax. And that's a combination. That's a. That's a double whammy.

Okay, ordinary income. So I'm paying whatever my ordinary rate is up to 37%. And then. Okay, tell them the F word.

And FICA. FICA?

What? The FICA? There goes our FICA is the Self Employment Tax.

There goes our PG rated FICA.

Do I have anything FICA to give away? Oh, we got shirts and all sorts of stuff. Okay, we're throwing some FICA stickers here in our books. Okay, we're going to give away a book. Cory be right. Give it to a girl. You know, guys, Cory is single and I don't even know why he's not choosing girls to give away books to. You know, he's really. Okay, 15.3%. So if you're doing ordinary income now some of you are like, well, when does ordinary income apply? Mining, staking, class A.

Creating NFTs.

Creating NFTs. Like it. Ooh, metaventures. So you're in the metaverse doing some cool, kick ass stuff. Metaventures. If you're doing business, you're going to pay this tax.

Well, I. I even have some clients who get paid in crypto. They're consultants or even just W2 employees, but they work for a crypto company and they get crypto for their services.

Oh, I love that.

So that would fall under, I like

getting crypto for my services. Yeah, that'd be cool. Okay, now let me tell you the worst tax to add to this state tax. Now some of you go, well, I have my LLC in Nevada or one of the nine states that don't have state tax, so I'm not going to pay state tax. My crypto Is not in California. I live in California. But my crypto somewhere else does not matter. Up to a 13%. Then you throw Obamacare, ACA tax. Guys, do you want to see this? How ugly this can get? Oh, my gosh. A short term capital gain could be 37% fed plus 2.8 for ACA. And then you could have 13% state. Then if you're doing ordinary tax, ordinary income, then you could have 37%. I think this is 1.8. This is 0.9. And then you could have state tax. I mean, people, you could lose up to 50% of your crypto, state and fed tax if you're not careful. So we have a whole section at the Crypto Tax Summit on S Corporations to save on ordinary income. Whole other topic. Accountants and lawyers love this workshop because they need to go back and help their clients with this. Elton Green says, mark, I just opened a business and after hearing all of this, I want to get out of business. Oh, no, no, no. What the flip is going on? Tell me why I should stay in business. You know what? I'm glad Elton said that. Elton, by the way, you look good. You know, I don't know if that's your wedding or you just wear a tux for fun, but you look freaking. You look good, dude. Okay, everybody. All right. I love small business. I love investing. I love taking control of my own finances. You're going to get your sales pitch too. So don't think you're getting out of this.

Okay.

All right, Elton, all of you. I'm almost emotional. You don't want a glass ceiling. I want all of my employees to have a side hustle, side business. I want them to have a small business to make more money, extra income. Elton, my whole job, the whole purpose of my freaking book was to save you taxes. Where you save more in tax as a small business owner than working for someone else. But you have the synergy of having a day job and a small business and paying a lower tax rate on your small business income. Do I want you just putting your money blindly in mutual funds? No. You might make more money in crypto. Do I want you to just put your money blindly in ETFs, exchange traded funds? No. I'd like you to buy some rental property, maybe an Airbnb, form a little partnership, sell some crap online, be an affiliate, build a website online market. Do something to build your American dream. Elton, don't give up. You just got to know. You know what we ought to call this whole thing that we're doing. We ought to have a slogan for it, like, oh, know the game. Right here, baby. Look at that. Just know the rules to the game. That's at crypto tax summit, May 19th and 20th. Just look at that, Elton. Just know the game. Once you know the rules, you're in control, baby. So don't give up. Okay. What's your pitch? You have one?

Yeah. No, here's the thing, right, Elton. Stick with business. Because if you're just a regular W2 employee going out there doing your job. Right. Great. There's nothing wrong with that. But you don't get to do tax planning.

Yeah.

You don't get to take the write offs that you do as a business owner. And so, yeah, there's. There's a little bit to know. There's a little bit more to understand. But now you're actually in control of your situation and in control of your taxes. And so, yeah, stick with it. Hang on. Come to the summit. We'll. We'll help you out with it. We'll put a plan together. And now you can start to bring those taxes down and actually keep the wealth that you're making, man.

I'm coming up with ideas for more classes at the summit too. We have two days. We're still designing the agenda. I know S Corps is going to be one, and I want to put small business write offs. I just want to do that. I think that'll be good. By the way, every hour at the summit, we're giving away $100 of cryptocurrency every hour to the attendees, whether you're on virtual or you're there live. Freaking awesome. It's going to be sweet. Okay, Corey, who's the lady that's going to win the book? Personally autographed by Corey White. This is Corey. He's going to personally autograph my book.

With his phone number, Maybe.

Yeah. With or with maybe. Or may not include his phone number, but we're going to throw it out there. So, Corey, who wins the book? Elton Green. I know I said a girl. No. Okay, I said a girl. Okay, what's the name of the girl? Lisa McKinney. Woo. You are the winner of the Tax and Legal playbook personally autographed by Corey White. We should get him to come on camera here. Okay. All right, Lisa, make sure any of you that win, send us your info to coreyarkjkohler.com and he will get your information. Everybody, please do not take into listen to anybody trying to sell you bitcoin on the feed here on Facebook. They're scammers. Okay, curious 425, should we try to. I don't know. See, currency exchange is. And currency exchanging is a different tax because currency crypto is not currency, it's property. And so curious for 25 is saying, if I buy the yen, if I buy euro, if I buy pesos, and I trade them for the US Dollar and I get some arbitrage where I make money trading currency back and forth, and there are currency traders. It's a very different tax than cryptocurrency. So do some research on that. A very different deal. B. Rowe says, I was advised to set up a C Corp in October 2021. After watching your videos, I learned that was a big mistake. Now, I have been getting that corrected. It is a headache and a mess. Now, B roll. Let me throw this out. Everybody B row can still do an S election retroactively. B row to last year to when you set it up. So if some accountant is telling you that you can't make an S corp election on that until this year, they're wrong. There's a special form for it. We know how to do it. We charged 150, 200 bucks. 200 bucks easy. We stun. So be ro. Be careful if you're getting some crazy advice. Okay?

Okay. We had one up just a little bit from Juan. Did we touch Juan's?

We can do that. Oh, Juan says, what are the steps to buy crypto with my Roth ira? Should I do a trifecta while you talk?

Yes.

Ooh, I love that.

Okay, so in a Roth ira, we've got essentially two options for buying crypto. Now let me back up a bit because I got excited.

I was gonna say, wow, you went quick, you went straight to the heart of it.

All right, here's the steps, man.

All right. Okay. All right.

So, okay, the thing is, if we can start doing some of this in a tax deferred or a tax free account like a Roth ira, now we don't have to worry about the capital gains anyway. So it makes it so much easier, so much simpler, and you're going to save a ton of taxes doing it. So if we do this in a Roth ira, basically what we're going to do is we're going to put the money into the Roth. You could go out, you buy your crypto, you trade it, you sell it, you buy more crypto, you, as long as you're doing all of this in the Roth, you're doing it tax free. Okay, so what we'll do from here Is you can set up an account with a self directed custodian over at Directed Ira.

Okay, this is option A.

Option A.

Okay. Option A is I'm just going to set up a trading account. Under which exchange?

Directed Ira.

Gemini.

Oh, yep. So they have, they have a crypto account at Directed Ira so you can sign up for a crypto Roth IRA and that is directly linked to the Gemini exchange.

And that's easy.

And that's it.

You can be doing this in 48 hours. Now some of you are like, well, I want to buy a token that's not on Gemini. Oh, well, we'll come to option B. But option A is super easy. You open your Roth and you can go to directed ira.com and tonight you could have your account set up. And by Monday you're either making a new contribution or doing a rollover from another IRA or 401k or whatever. I don't know, we've got different videos on that and all sorts of information. But you open your Roth, that's step one. And step two is you just open up a Roth. Crypto Roth. We call it a crypto Roth. It's at Gemini. You're trading within 48, 72 hours. Okay, but option B. I don't like what Gemini has.

Yeah, if you don't like what Gemini has or maybe you just want to go start doing some different things, Option B is we'll set up just a regular self directed account. So when you go to directed ira.com youm're not choosing the crypto option. You're just doing a regular self directed Roth ira. And then what we do is we set up what we call an IRA llc. Now this is a specialized LLC that is owned by your Roth account. But what we're going to do is we're going to make you the manager of this llc. So now you can go and set up an institutional account at Gemini, at Coinbase, at Kraken, wherever you want to start trading your crypto. You can even go out and start doing metamask or other decentralized wallets and other, you know, defi, whatever you want to do. And you'll just do it all out of this LLC. But since that LLC is owned by your Roth. Tax free 100.

Okay. Love it. Two options. We have podcasts on that. I would recommend the podcast, the Directed IRA podcast. And you can just go to directed ira.com podcast and we have almost two years worth of episodes on all these different topics on using your retirement account in crypto. Okay, let's just do one or two more questions and then I'm going to give away and this is going to be totally random. The winner. I want to do Wilson's question. The winner of a virtual ticket to the cryptotaxsummit.com Miami event. That's a $300 value. Now, all of you can get 10% off this weekend by using the code EARLYBIRD10 and just type that in. And you can get 10% off the general admission, the premium with special seating and special networking events and or the VIP on the yacht. So any of you can do that. I think we're going to sell the VIP by Wednesday of next week. We've already had another purchaser today and it's for 12 people only. Okay. Now Wilson's question was, if I bought a rental property through my business llc, can I transfer it to its own llc? Well, Wilson, let's go to the trifecta. This is the famous Mark J. Kohler trifecta. And I've got to know what kind of LLC you have. If you have an LLC that you're running your landscaping business through and it's just a plain old LLC that you're reporting on a Schedule C on your 1040, which hopefully not, that would scare the hell out of me. But let's say you have that and you've got a rental property over here that you put there on accident, you can transfer that to a new LLC that's owned by your trust or you easy schmeasy. It's carryover basis. So whatever you bought this rental for plus improvements comes over onto the books here. That's easy. Here's the problem. If you made an S corp election on this, not good. We would not do that with an S corp. If you have a business LLC over here that's already passive and you want to transfer it to another llc, you can do that. I don't know why you call it a business llc, but Wilson do this. Anybody out there? You need a consult? You can get a consult with this guy. He's one of our sought after tax lawyers. We have 14 tax lawyers at our office. You can get an appointment within about a week's time. Just call the law firm. 888. Oh my gosh, that look terrible. 888-801-0010. Call the law firm. We help clients around the world, not just the United States. But if you're investing in the US in real estate and crypto, have a small business, get a consult for just an hour, three or four hundred bucks to get some advice. Could change your life. Life Elabells. Do you want to do that one?

Okay.

Elabellas.

I like that.

Els Bells. Is that how it works?

Okay, I like it. All right, so El Bells asks, what if you sell your crypto at a loss to purchase another crypto? Okay, yeah, I love that one. So, yes, if you sell your crypto at a loss, you can actually use that loss to offset your other gains.

Okay, so let's say I buy a bit point. Let's do an example. Now, what she's talking about is the wash sale. Now, the wash sale is pretty cool, everybody. And we have a section at the crypto tax summit where we'll go in detail on this. Let's say I bought Bitcoin for $5,000. It went up to $7,000. Then what should it go down? Here you call it $3,000. Okay, so we have a loss in here. And she still believes in bitcoin though.

Right?

So tell us how this would work.

Yeah, so what we could do is we can sell the bitcoin. So if you buy it at 5k, you sell it down at 3k, you'd have $2,000 worth of losses. Now that you can use against your other capital gains. Now, if you wanted to, you could take that, that $3,000 you sold your bitcoin for and go into Ethereum or something else, or you can buy right back into bitcoin. And this is where that wash sale rule comes in. So for stocks and typical securities, you cannot buy back into bitcoin or they'll avoid that sale. There's a 30 day cooling off period before you can actually buy back in.

So but with stock, but not with

bitcoin, but with crypto, that rule does not apply. So let's say that your bitcoin's down a little bit, but maybe you have some altcoin that took off and just skyrocketed. Well, you can go ahead and sell your bitcoin, buy right back in and then take that $2,000 of losses to offset the gains on your other crypto.

Yep. So this loss can be used on any other crypto gain. And she just basically harvested a loss. Now, one thing that everybody, the reason why I wrote it this way is look at, she bought it for five, it went up to seven. And some clients say, well, I've got a loss. And they'll say it was worth X at one point. And I go, I don't care what it was worth one point. What did you buy it for? And everybody out there, you start to learn. This is called your basis. And so I want to know what you bought it for and what you sold it for. That's the loss you get to take. Then you. It goes up to 10k. Well, now you've got a difference between 3 and 10. Now I have a $7,000 gain. So this basis goes away, and the new basis becomes your 3K. Now, this is why we love Tax Bit, is because you can get. We're going to have a whole class on this at the summit. You can get a software program at Tax Bitcoin that will track all this crap. It just tracks it all. So you're buying and selling here, you're buying and selling there. Blah, blah, blah. Defy cold storage, warm storage, hot storage, mediocre storage, whatever storage you want. Tax Bit, they freaking track it. So they're gonna. They're a big sponsor of our event. They're gonna show you how to track all this. So some of you that are freaking out, don't worry about it.

We did a webinar with Seth from Tax Fit a little while ago, and when you plug in your information on there, there's a feature where it will actually tell you where you can harvest these losses. It says, hey, I noticed on BlockFi you bought some bitcoin a little bit higher than what it is now. Do you want to harvest that loss and use it against your other gains? I was actually very impressed with it. It's fantastic. Really cool stuff.

I love it. Well, everybody, this is a great question. We're going to finish on this one, and then Corey's going to tell us the winner of another book and the win. You're going to. Yes. You choose a winner. Oh, no. Okay. All right. Sorry. Yes. Okay. So Corey's going to also choose the winner of the Crypto Tax Summit virtual ticket. Okay. Dustin Grant says, does my real estate and the Metaverse depreciate? By the way, dude, I was on Oculus last night playing ping pong. Have you played ping pong on Oculus yet?

I haven't done ping pong yet.

Dude, it is so cool.

11 or whatever that one is.

Yes.

Yeah.

It is so good. And I'm not kidding. It was like, literally playing ping pong. It is the coolest thing. I'll call you tonight. We'll get on. I'll friend you on my Oculus. Okay, so if you're in the Metaverse and you buy real estate, and I have clients that have done this, and I love it. We had Remy Campbell on here. As a guest, you can go back to our podcast, Main Street Business Podcast. And Remy is doing business and his brother TJ in the Metaverse. Hope to have them also speak. We're going to do a Metaverse panel at the Crypto Tax Summit. It's going to be freaking awesome. Anyway, they're buying real estate in upland, Decentraland, all these different metaverses and renting out property virtually. That's right. They have rental property in the Metaverse. Pretty darn cool. Dustin says, can I depreciate my property in the metaverse? No, you cannot depreciate it, but you're going to buy it. Let's say you buy a property for $1,000 in upland and then you rent it out for a player that wants to come into the game, that would be rental income. We're going to put that as schedule E rental income. And you've got property that you're renting, but you don't get to depreciate it. That's just going to be an asset with a basis that when you go to sell that land, you'll have a capital gain. So think about that. Okay, who's my winner? Corey, you get a final word. Okay, Sarah. Sarah Feavel. She is the winner of the book Tax and Legal Playbook. And any of you that want a book today, you have to only just email Corey@markjkohler.com and he asked that you send him a Venmo payment of at least $500. I'm just joking. You would not do that. Email Corey arcoler.com and he will get your information to mail you the book. Now Sarah says, can I learn to do my taxes with just your books and videos? Yes and no. Everybody pay attention. She says, mark, if I buy your book, can I learn to do my taxes? Watching all your videos and your book. To do the actual tax forms? No. To do your tax strategy and help control and advise and lead your accountant. Yes. See, there's the big problem. A lot of people go, well, I'm so and so is going to do my taxes. I'm just going to trust they're going to do it right. No, you are the captain of your ship. So Sarah, buying the book and watching the videos is going to save you thousands because you're going to know the strategies that your accountant might be jacking up. But are you gonna learn to do the actual forms?

Hell no.

That takes a lot of work. I don't even do my own tax forms. I have my team do them. I Review them and do my strategies with them. But doing your own tax form, Unless you're doing it every day in the trenches, like I have an amazing accounting firm team doing them. I screwed up my own employees, know that. Give me that mark. I'll do your tax return. Then you look at it. And that's what I want you to do. Sarah is looking at your tax return and knowing how it works. But you don't fill it out. Okay, Darren is going to get the final word. He's going to give you some advice that's going to blow your brain. Hold it. Corey, who's the winner of our tax summit? Dustin. Dustin. Where's he at? What'd you say? Dustin. Last name Grant. Dustin Grant is the winner. Our $300 ticket to the a virtual ticket to Miami. Now you know what you can do, Dustin, if you get a hold of Yesi, call the office, you can talk to Yesi, you can upgrade that to premium to vip. Come in person, general admission, whatever that you got. Dude, you got a $300 credit. So you can watch it online from home or come to frickin Miami and party with us. Call the office at 888-801-0010. Talk to Darren. I mean talk to Yesi. Now, Darren, what's our final advice or tip for today?

Yeah, final advice is just try to get your crypto taxes done, okay? And here's the thing, right? We talk about it a lot. The IRS is coming after it. It's confusing, it can be hard. We get it right going through our own taxes. It's hard to track all those transactions. But that is no excuse or reason to just your head in the sand and hope that the IRS doesn't find you. So at the very least, go out there, track what you're doing, put forth just your best faith effort, as good as you can, do it and put and file and pay what you need to pay.

I love it.

But, but don't, don't stress yourself. If you need help, we're here for you. Give us a call, set up a consultation. We're happy to walk you through it. Happy to get it done, get you to the finish line.

I love it. And there was another question there on borrowing and lending with crypto and using some arbitrage. We're going to have a section at the summit on that as well. Everybody, you're going to love it. Okay, we'll see you for another live event next week on the eve of tax filing. People, if you don't feel completely good about your tax return yet and are confused or have questions. File an extension 4868 no cost to file an extension. Send in a deposit if you think you owe, read my article@markjcohler.com on how much to send in with your extension. But file an extension even if you owe. Because there's penalties for not filing and there's penalties or not paying, they can double whammy you. So you want to at least get rid of the one by filing an extension. Love you all. Darren, thanks for being here. You rock. Yesi thank you. Appreciate it everybody. What is it again? It is early bird 10 gets you 10% off until Monday at cryptotaxummit. Com and we hope to see you all there in Miami. And the networking, the food, the band, it's going to be great. Have fun. Thanks everybody. See you next week.