The Man That Can Make Anybody Famous (Even You) w/ C-ROC

I got to get the message out to people not to be discouraged. There is a game, there are rules to it and it's not as difficult as you think. You just don't know something yet. And there are people that have the answers for you.

Some people think is a chicken before the egg. Do I come out with my funnel and my core product or I start building my brand? Which one? Chicken before the egg. The product can be coming and developed while you're building your brand. Don't wait. And I love that message.

I know the game and the game is let me get on as many as possible. If I was worried about what people thought about that, I would have never gotten to where I've gotten so far.

I've done a pod every week for the last 15, 16 years. A lot of people, they're not consistent. You're going to be in the studio. Even if you don't have anything to say, you figure out something to say. Welcome everybody to another Main street business interview with someone that's making a difference in Main Street America. Helping regular entrepreneurs reach their dreams. And really the influencer. There's. That's an interesting business. We brought one of the best in the country on helping people find, find their brand, blow up their brand and be an influencer. Mike, thanks for being with us. This is C Rock Mike. C Rock. You know that's the handle. I love your podcast.

Thank you, Mark.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you. And thank you for joining me on my show. I appreciate that, bud.

Oh yeah, no, it's awesome. It's so cool. And Mike, going by the handle Crock Sirocco is the CEO of People Building Inc. And the powerhouse behind what you are made of movement podcast. He is a performance coach, two time best selling author of the book rocket fuel. Love it. Public speaker, tech visionary, thought leader. In 2020 he was featured by Yahoo. Finance as one of the top business leaders to follow and number one on the list of top mortgage professionals. He's got an incredible agency that discuss here a little later and give you guys all the ability to connect with his team, do a discovery call, find out how his agency might be able to help blow you up. And I'm excited to talk about this, this whole topic. So Mike, thanks again for being here.

Let's go, Mark. Let's rock, man. Let's light em up.

Let's rock. Let's light em up. All right. And I love, I love your energy. So first your business, then I want to go back in time on how you got here. But as I described that introduction. That's cool, but kind of maybe explain it in layman's terms or even an example of what you do on a day to day basis in your business right now, then maybe we'll go back and see how you got there and how that passion led you to this place. But what is it you do every day to help these entrepreneurs?

Yeah, so the stuff that you mentioned in the bio are my vehicles to serve my mission. This is a mistake I made in the past. And I think a lot of people, ballplayers, veterans, entrepreneurs, they. The mistake they make is they identify with what they do versus who they actually are. And then what they do is their vehicles to get to their mission. So what I do every day is I serve a mission which is all people are unstoppable, to live in the life of their dreams. And then I take my vehicles, which used to be the mortgage business, and now it's that one brand and that one agency. I take these vehicles to serve my mission.

I love it. And the benefits that people, you know, when you help someone go from obscurity and start having an influence and able to share their passion and their vision, it's got to be a remarkable feeling when you see someone like, go, oh my gosh, seock, I'm, I'm making a difference. I don't know, the energy you must feel around the office, when that happens, it's got to be exhilarating.

Yeah. I mean, I lived so much of my life in the mortgage industry for 20 years, real estate, mortgages, being unfulfilled, playing too small of a game. And I was, I was making a lot of money and that, that, that was a problem, that was a, a trap. And I realized when I got into my 40s about five years ago that I was identifying with what I was doing as a mortgage professional businessman. And I, my emotions, because my identity was tied to that and my, I would be emotionally a roller coaster. And I told my wife one time, Mark, I'm like, I can't live like this. This is, this is ridiculous. Now I haven't, not the, I'm not boasting here, but I have a nice house on the water, beautiful wife. I've been married to almost 21 years, two healthy kids, I'm blessed. But the fact of the matter is, and I felt trapped with that money, part of that lifestyle. I wanted to live that lifestyle. But the fulfillment, you know, I'm a believer unapologetically in God and I was created. And I think we're all Created to create and play a certain size game based on what we've been given. I was not playing a big enough game and I thought that was unacceptable. So I made a course correction and now I'm living a fulfilled life and helping other people.

Well, when someone finds their purpose, man or woman finds their purpose, and sometimes they make a big deal of it and stay languishing and kind of like a downward spiral because they think, oh, I don't know, my purpose, whatever. But to some degree, when people find their purpose, it is so powerful because now they know why they're getting up in the morning. And it's not. It's not money. It's not money. Money is a byproduct of us finding our purpose and doing it. Well, in my opinion, when you're out discovering you're like an agent to me, you're like discovering those stars out there. I suspect when you're interviewing someone to help them go next you pro. Isn't that one of your first questions? Almost like, what's your purpose? Tell me, tell me what you know, what's your plan?

I go through this. I have a thing called 15 mini, and it's my proprietary process. I'll get on 5 to 815 minis a day with total strangers I meet on Instagram or somebody that connected to somebody to me. I have no idea who they are, get on a call. My process is, and this is something everybody should be using is I want to find out what they're working on right now that's got them excited and lit up like, what excites them in the morning, right? I want to know that, that tells me what their focus is right now. And then the next question after that is, what's the vision? If I'm a. If I'm a genie and I pop out of a bottle, what do you like? I snap my fingers and make it happen. Paint that picture for me now that gives me one. If they're goal oriented and what their focus is. Because, see, my mentor taught me, I love to give credit to the people that I've stood on the shoulders of that creating, causing and creating a future for others is one of the most attractive things you can do in life and in business. And so I asked that question that allows me to hear what they really want to do if they know, and then allows me to accommodate that. Accommodate them, you know, accomplish that for them, help them, elevate them. And so those are the questions I ask, what are you working on now that's got you excited and what's the vision for the future? Once I have that, I can speak into that. And I always make people go first, even if they try to make me go first, because I want to be able to speak into what their vision is and what's getting them excited right now.

Yeah, love it. I, you know, as you know, obviously, we've gotten to know each other well, and I'm helping business owners, and a lot of times that business is, of course, their purpose, their product, their restaurant, their whatever. Their vision for that business is so personal to them. But in your business, you're helping people like they're. They want to be an influence, they want to have a brand, they want to go to that next level. And you've talked about this manufacturing, that level of presence that people want. It's probably impossible to do that unless they have a purpose. You've got that because that's what you're going to leverage. Can you explain that? Like, to put someone on that pedestal, they got to have something, and then you build on that.

Of course. So that's what. The first place I'll start. That's why I asked the question. And I can't go beyond that. So I always, you know, we dive into that first. If they don't. To be honest, mark and transparent, this is the way I am. I'm authentic about this. I'm not. I don't really want to work with people that don't have that figured out yet. Um, I'm. I'm in the business of making people that are able, more able. And I believe if I focus on that, then that will allow people to see those folks develop, achieve, and that'll bring the people that don't know what they want yet to a point where I want that, and then I can work with them. So I really don't spend a lot of time with people that don't have a vision, that aren't goal oriented, that aren't focused on that yet. Because I'm going to take care of that by helping the able become more able to.

I was fascinated with your goal and your ability to put someone on that platform. Let's assume you discover that they got their mojo, you know what they're going to do, and you're like, all right, I can put you there. Because for me, and this is why what you do fascinates me, is because I'm an accountant at the core. You know, I'm a cpa, I'm an attorney. I love the intricacies of helping a small business and everybody's starving for that. You know, you've heard me talk about the tax tips and the structure, and everybody wants it. But for me to get on a platform where people notice me is so hard. And for years, I probably gone at it the wrong way. I could have expedited it, calling you a lot sooner, but how difficult is it for you to elevate someone and manufacture that personality? Is it possible? How do. What's your take on that whole process?

100%, it's possible. And what you just said in the beginning, it's hard. It's hard. I don't say things are hard if I want to accomplish them. I just start moving towards that direction, and I don't want to talk myself out of it. So when I say it's hard, man, you know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna experience that. See, Mark, when I was growing up, I grew up around a lot of broken people, a lot of brokenness, Drug addicts, mental health issues, anxiety, depression, drugs, alcohol, that stuff, suicide. Okay? And what I noticed a pattern happening is people were telling the story, and then they were living that story. And I noticed that pattern is causing and creating. And so I started thinking, well, if you can do that with the bad stuff, I wonder if you can do it with the good stuff. Now I'm talking. When I was 8 or 10 years old, somewhere in that range, I started to realize this. Well, I'm just gonna, you know, if you can cause and create bad stuff to happen, I'm gonna start seeing if I can do it with the good stuff. And if it doesn't work, what's the. What's. There's no risk. So I started telling stories and speaking in a. In a. In a direction that I wanted to go. And all of a sudden, you know, I hate to say this, but it felt like magic at the time. Now it's not magic. And I don't ever want to call it magic or say it's amazing or wow, because I think that takes away from the power that we've been given. I'm an unapologetic believer in God, and I believe this. This. This Creator put us here to create. And I don't. I don't want to. You know, I don't want to take away from that power and think it's happenstance or coincidence. We can cause and create the life that we want. And so, yeah, I said, I don't say it's hard. It's work. You got to put work to it. You got to put effort. You got to know the rules of the game, you got to know that there is a game and it's manufactured. And once you know that, then it's like it gives you some sense of control and, well, wait, I can do this. I can do this. I just don't know something. I just need to know something and then I can take action upon it.

Does it ever frustrate you when you see someone at that influencer level and you know the steps to get there? That's the powerful thing I want to tell anybody of my listeners. You're watching and you're wanting to build a brand, you're wanting to elevate yourself or your business. You've got to talk to Mike's team and see what they have to offer, because there is an equation to get there. It just doesn't. You don't have to go out and win the super bowl to get there. You can get there. Look at the Kardashians, for crying out loud. So do you ever get. So the point being, though, is, do you ever get frustrated when you see someone that manufactured that level of influence, but they really don't have anything to offer? There's no purpose, it's just hollow. And you're like, why am I. I'm not there. But how did they get there? And they don't have jack on me. I don't know what. How do you reconcile that? Does it frustrate you at all, ever?

No, you know, I don't get frustrated because frustration lowers my intelligence. So I want to remain in control and be as is sharp as I can be. So frustration, like, defeats the purpose. So I'm aware of that now. I'm human. I get frustrated. I get there to the point and I catch myself. And in the past it was way worse. But the key is, like, I want to speak to you and anybody, the listener right now. Have you ever felt like the best kept secret? Like, I'm, man, I'm impactful, I have a lot to offer. I just feel like nobody knows me. I feel like the best kept secret. This is like, there's gotta be a way. And you start thinking and you see these other people blowing up and you're like, man, I just don't get it. And then. And then people get discouraged because of that. And for me, when I wake up in the morning, I'm obsessed with this. Like, I gotta get the message out to people not to be discouraged. There is a game, there are rules to it, and it's not as difficult as you think. You just don't know something yet. And there are people that have the answers for you. So to answer your question, of course I'm a human being. Frustration, you know, sometimes. But I'm, I'm an ass kicker. I'll kick the. I'll kick the frustration.

You just take them down. You're like, I'm taking them down and I'm going to replace them with someone better. I love the thought work that you've done. You put in the thought work so that you're not going to go down those rabbit holes. You feel it coming. We're all human. And then with God's grace. And I'm a huge believer in Christian. I just, I want to flip that dialogue and really take control of my thoughts. And I really appreciate that. So tell me what you think of this. There's an analogy that you might share too, because I really want people to understand how important this is. I had a web developer that told me, he's like, this is a few years back. He's like, your website's great, mark, but it's like a beautiful house you built on a hill, but there's no roads going there. In fact, I might be able to see it if I look really hard. But you've built this great thing, but it's the secret, because you haven't built the roads to get there. And that's when I started to learn more about social media and newsletters and speaking and affiliate relationships and networking and da da, da, da, da. Stuff you don't learn in accounting school, obviously, or law school. What type of analogies? Or can you explain that further to let people know that you can build those roads to get there? Or another metaphor.

Yeah, 100. I'm just going to give a specific right out the gate here. I realized something when I decided to get known and that I was best kept secret. And there's. I need to get known globally for what I do. Not for ego, but for impact. I started to realize podcast guesting, not. Not just having your own show. Okay, follow me here. But when you're on a podcast on someone else's show, I used to be so worried about mikeseyrock.com that1agency.com. I used to be so worried about SEO. Get it out there. But then I realized something. When I go on someone's show, my name appears in the title. What I talk about. The topic appears in the title, obviously. But then when they publish the show, my name goes on their website. My links, my social handles goes on their website. I said, holy cow. All I got to do is get on a bunch of shows, and then I'll. When somebody wants to work with me, they Google Mike C. Rock or whatever. Guess what happens. All these pages of other people's podcasts, other people's websites. My name's appearing on, my socials are appearing on them. So now it's pages and pages of pages of me being interviewed by someone, which blows my credibility and authority through the roof. And so I started to realize that, and that creates multiple channels and opportunities and openings besides the credibility and authority to get to me. And I realized that, and I was like, this is how Grant Cardone and Gary Vee and Ed, my lead and Tony Robbins. This is how they did it. And I was like, man, watch this. I knew it was going to take some time, but I just knew that I could do it. And one thing, Mark, I don't know if you've ever ran into somebody that you put on a pedestal because of their manufactured celebrity, and you run into them and then you're like, man, they disappoint you. I never wanted to be that kind of guy when somebody meets me that they're like, disappointed. So speaking of getting celebrity and then not having something to back it up and being a quality, ethical human being, I wanted to make sure I worked on myself before I manufactured my celebrity. Personal development, working on my thoughts, like you said, and getting to the point where I was built solid. So when somebody met me, they even thought higher of me than the manufactured celebrity.

And I think this is important for our listeners to understand. Is that how you get on the podcast? Which podcast you get on? You're giving away so much here, which I surely appreciate. That's what I try to give away. So much content so people can walk away and make things happen. But then there's on day two, you're like, okay, well, which podcast? How do I get on there? What should I say? How do I do it? And I. And that's what part of that manufacturing is about. And it's not just podcasts. We got YouTube. We've got all the other platforms. As you make this coordinated effort, how much coaching do you do with your clients to, like, help them feel comfortable in that? I know. So some people, they're scared to death to get on a podcast. Like, do you run into that a lot? They've got this great message, and now you got to really bring them to the next level to get there.

Yeah. I have a framework. I teach people when you're on podcasts so that they can flow and if they get knocked off that framework because of a question that comes up and they go down a rabbit hole or what have you, they can revert back to that, that framework. But the key is, is that when I first started, and still to this day, not taking anything away from your great show, okay when I say this, but I'll go on anybody's show. I don't care if it's their first show that they've started, they have no listeners. I don't care about that because I know the game. And the game is let me get on as many as possible. I'll be on their website when somebody Google searches me, I'm going to be on more websites. And then the other thing is for the new shows, if nobody's watching, if you're not good, who cares? And number two, if I go on, let's say this is your first show and you're like, man, I need to get a guest and you secured me to come on the show and I say yes and I light that show up and I give them content. I'm going to be a hero in their eyes. And I wake up every day, whose hero can I be today? And not an artificial hero, but somebody that somebody truly believes in and is inspired by and elevated by. And so I don't, I really don't pick and choose me personally. I try to tell our clients this. I'll get clients that come in and they're like, I want to be on Rogan and I want to be on this and that. And I'm like, listen, you can try to do that. And I can't guarantee that I can. And I don't know that you're the quality of guests at this point or trending enough right now to get on that type of show. But you're thinking about it the wrong way. And so I have to really try to work hard. I have to try to, because I like to do things. I don't like to talk about trying. But sometimes people are hard headed, they're stubborn and I have to get through to them to say, listen, you're missing the point, you're looking at this the wrong way. And teach them the right way, which I've actually experienced and I'm actually doing and get them on the right pages. Just, just get on shows.

Gary.

Matter of fact, Gary Vander Chuk, he didn't even get on shows. Sometimes he would just have a guy which was like an intern and he would have that guy ask him questions and have a videographer there filming it. For content, right? And so somebody's willing to interview me. I don't care where their show is, what I don't care. I, I'm, I'm in and I'll figure it out, the scheduling and all that kind of thing. Because, you know, nobody's this high that they, that they can't benefit from somebody interviewing them. And some people get in their head and their ego a little bit too much and they think that they're too good for people and they miss the boat.

So you've been on Wayne's World and icarly, all the classics, because you'll just go, I love it. Where do you think about writing a book? Where does that fit in your hierarchy of priorities when you're helping someone go next level?

So writing a book allows you to get your thoughts out. It's very therapeutic, and it's a great calling card. You're not going to make a whole lot of money directly from book sales, of course. Matter of fact, my book probably cost me. I mean, I don't know that I'll ever get out of the hole directly from that. You know, I had Grant Cardone right to forward. That actually costs money. I'm very transparent. I didn't. Grant didn't just do it out of the kindness of his heart. It cost me money. But, but writing a book's a great, great way to get started. It's just another piece of content. And, you know, I wrote my book, and one thing I don't like about writing a book is when you go through the editing process, you got to reread the thing over and over and over again, and the stuff starts. You get desensitized towards the thing. You start to think, everybody knows this stuff. Why would anybody read this? But it's, it's really not the case. Most people don't know the stuff that's in your book. But yeah, write a book. Write a book. I mean, and the thing is, is that you should always market the book ahead of time while you're writing the book, because it gives you opportunity to promote yourself more and get sales before the book's even done. I sold 2400, just under 2500 copies of my book before it was even finished.

Do you ever have the clients that they, you, you get them on their path, you're excited about them, you're getting into that level where they're really making a difference, an influence. And then, doc, is it Mr. Jekyll or Dr. Dr. Hyde? I mean, they like flip on you. You know, they like man, where did this prima donna come from? Do you ever see that happen? Advice to someone like you. You're a humble guy. You know my style too. I'm like, hey, I can always learn something new. And the more educated get, the more I realize, I don't know. But do you run into that often where the ego can sometimes outpace their vision?

I pick that up usually early on. It doesn't usually happen after the fact. Occasionally I might. But, you know, I think the fact that, you know, I'm really transparent and authentic. I keep saying this because I believe in it so, so wholeheartedly. I want authenticity from people and I want transparency from people. So the only way I can get that is if I do it myself first. It starts with me, right? So I don't see it happen too often. I usually catch it earlier on and, and if we get it earlier on in our business, let's say I'm working with someone, I start to see that. I tell my partner, my team, I said, guys, listen, let's give them their money back. Let's get. Let them go learn on their own. We're not in a situation. Look, I love money, okay? I need to grow my revenue in the business, but I want to do it the right way. And I don't need a pain in the ass person that's stubborn, that's hung up on their ego to get in the way of what we're doing because it's going to take away from our other clients and our focus and our creativity. So I don't usually go down the road really far with that. I usually can pick it up pretty quickly. And look, I love people. I want them to succeed and they have to have some kind of trust. Factor in the fact that I've done this already. I'm not, I'm not a company. So there's a lot of companies out there, Mark, that don't do what they practice or don't. Don't practice what they preach and they don't practice what they're advising other people on. I'm doing this from doing it, have done it, and everything I do in my business, by the way that works for us, I turn it into a business because there's nothing, there's nothing stronger than working with someone that's actually doing what they're helping you with.

That leads to my next question. It's great if you can create this celebrity. And I've always loved the distinction between fame and fortune and, and you know the difference between that. You know, you can be really famous and not have a dime or you have a ton of money and not famous. And, you know, tying those two together, so powerful. But explain your approach to, to the marketing funnel. Like if you're going to, they got their purpose, they've got their vision, you're liking their person, you know, their transparency. You're like this guy, this gal, they're authentic. I think we can do something for them. Tell us how you integrate the money making piece of that and the funnel. I know it's a huge conversation, but what kind of comes to mind that you, you really want to make sure they understand next?

Everybody needs to understand their experience is intellectual property. So, okay, we got to figure that out. Okay, your experience is intellectual property. What you're experienced in before you've gotten through because you're sitting here, let's figure out a way to package that up and be able to deliver that to people. Now you can deliver it through free giveaways and value, Right? But how can you collect people's information and data? Right? And once I get that, now here's how I do it. Okay? I do 15 minis. I do, I don't know, three to eight a day, Monday through Friday, total strangers. And when I do that, of course, when they sign up with me, they got to give me their name. Social, not social. I'm in the, I was in the mortgage business. I'm thinking about an application.

Hold on a second.

It's like, you don't have to give me your social if you don't want to. Their name, their cell phone, their email, their Instagram account. We collect that information when they book a call with me. Now I have it. Now I can market to them. Now I can give them value. Now I can reach them if I need to, if I have an idea. So I teach people the same thing that we do is you get a form and you fill and you collect data. Data is the valuable thing. Tech companies, that's all, I mean, politics, they collect data and then they use that data to analyze, to make decisions, and then to reach people and market to people. So that's, that's where we start. And you don't even have to have a product yet. If you just want to set up calls with people or give something away to people, you collect the data so that you have it when you're ready. Now you have an email list to market to, and then cell phones to text to and Instagram handles to, you know, DM people. DM is so underused.

Yeah, it's funny, I'VE done some DMS to some pretty big influencers and I get replies and they're like, I'm like, I got to use this more great inside tip there. Tell me what you. If you believe this to be a dichotomy or is. Is that. I've got so many business owners sometimes that they've got this great product. It could be a online product, it could be a service widget, you know, whatever that they're trying to sell, but then they don't have the platform, they don't have. They haven't manufactured that brand, that sk. They. They just are unknown. People don't know it's there. They got that best kept secret. And then I've got people, man, they got a great personality and they're. They're authentic. They've got a vision. They're like, going to do great things. You're like, holy crap, I can put them up there. But then what's your product like? What are you going to sell? At the end of the day, it's great. You're gathering data, you're getting there. But holy crap, we got what. What's the funnel here? What are you going to sell? And they're like, well, and. And it's funny, there's people that are. It's almost like the engineer versus the realtor. They're great. Shaking hands, closing deals, and then you got the engineer. That's great. Creating something. Sometimes you want to just meld them together. And I suspect you have clients on both ends of the spectrum and trying to bring it together. Do you ever experience that? And what do you do?

Yeah. Yeah, I've been there before myself. So I was there before where I was blowing up myself, my personal brand, and I'm like, I don't have anything to sell. So I wrote a book. Okay, let me do that. So I just tried things. Now, one thing I did make a mistake with, which is fine. It's an experience and you learn from mistakes. And mistakes are valuable data collection. Right. I've tried to force things in the past. That's fine. I don't. I mean, I don't think you should try to force things. It'll come organically, when it's ready. But in the meantime, you should be building up your brand, your celebrity, because when you do find it and you're ready, you've done that part already. So you shouldn't shy away from going on podcasts, getting your social media in check, building a brand. You shouldn't shy away from that. If you don't have something to sell. That's a, that's a mistake a lot of people make. They hold off on that part. Go out, build your brand, build your celebrity, have conversations with people, get on shows, network. You build this network and then when you're ready organically, it'll come. Now the thing is, is that also ran into this where I started building networks. Celebrities, very super successful businessmen, actors, athletes, billionaires, all this stuff. And I'm like, I always heard your network is your net worth, but I don't understand, like, what am I going to do with these people? And I start thinking and like stressing about and grinding on it. And that's not the way to do it. The time will come when it comes. You just got to keep on the path. And all of a sudden, example, I have this big network now and of course that helps us with our agency. But I'm also, you know, I got out of the mortgage business and I've invested in real estate before. Now we're going to, we're really going to start leaning into real estate investing as a, as another business. And I have some partners that are going to do this with me. And now the network all of a sudden is showing up very valuable. But if I didn't do that in the first place because I wasn't ready, quote unquote, I'd have to start from scratch. And that's just not the way to do it. I'd be behind the eight ball. So I did this building of network for the last five years and now, you know, things are starting to take off big time. And I'm so glad I did it. I didn't wait and, and I didn't get discouraged.

So powerful. I want to restate what you said because this was a big takeaway for me. Some people think, is it chicken before the egg? Do I come out with my funnel and my core product or I start building my brand? Which one? Chicken before the egg. And you definitively have said, oh yeah, start marketing now. Start building your brand now that the product can come second. It can be coming and developed while you're building your brand. Don't wait. And I love that message. Don't wait. Start now with your platforms, your. And you, of course, you're onboarding people in all the areas and helping them start to make regular posts, regular videos, regular broadcast and getting where they need to be. You have your, your secret sauce, which I love, but that to me is a big deal. People wait too long and you've already said it. I'm just Restating it, but I just think people miss that point.

Your brand, your brand can evolve, though. So it's not like nothing's set in stone and concrete. Nothing's ever permanent until you get plucked from this planet.

Right.

So to me, it's like, okay, I'm not gonna stress making things perfect. I'm gonna get started. You know, the C Rock brand was the first thing I started on. And what are you made of? Podcast. And then when was it? I started actually a company called People Building. And People Building was the agency that we had for a while. And then I said, you know what? I need to. I need to, like, evolve here. And that's where we started that one. Because I wanted to start helping people become that one in their industry. Not the best. The best is subjective, but that one is differentiation. Authentically, who are you? What do you represent? What makes you different in your industry? So you don't commoditize yourself. That's what happened to me in the mortgage business. It's such a commodity, and I wasn't cool with that.

Yeah.

So I had to evolve. So I created that one. And then now we help people become that one. And I'm still C Rock and have that still. But it evolved. And so that can evolve as well as your product line or your service offerings. They can evolve. Nothing set in stone. You know, I don't know about you, Mark, but I've tried a lot of things in my life in my entrepreneurial journey. And, you know, if I was worried about failing and what people would think if I failed or if I tried something, I put a landing page together and I put an offering out there and nobody signed up. If I was worried about what people would thought about that, I would have never gotten to where I've gotten so far. So I'll put things out all the time. I have my ops manager, Kim, her, and I talk all the time. And I get her to create this landing page with me and this and that, and then not one person will sign up. And I don't get upset about it. I just like, okay, let's shut that down. What's next? What's next? What's next? And we keep going until we find the thing that works and then we lean into it. So at both. Both sides can evolve. So why. Why wouldn't you start, you know, so good.

You've already shared so many tips. Maybe one last question. And I want to talk about mental toughness and that performance coaching that you do as well as I. To me, there's Action lines kind of in the coaching world there's action things I need to do, but there's also that, that personal work that I've got to do up here to, to prepare to do it or to execute or to stay strong and not give up. I'd love some thoughts on that. And then I want to know how people can get a hold of you and do one of those 15 minis and find out what your team has to offer and tell them where to go. But how do you work on the, that mind? What are some of your techniques for the mindset, the performance and getting people in the right space to succeed?

Well, first of all, I'm going to start off with basically something that happened recently. You know, when we're out there watching social media, we're watching people, it always looks better from the outside than it actually is. And in your situation, not you. But in general in our situations, it's not ever as bad as we think it is for ourselves. So that's a, that's an interesting dichotomy, right? You look at people, you think they're doing great and you don't know what's really going on behind the scenes. And then for yourself, you're always thinking, you wake up and my man, I should be further along than I am, I should be achieving.

I want to repeat that. We always think people are doing better than they appear and we always think we're doing worse than we really are.

And both are lies, both are facades. And so I just had a guy, a friend of mine that passed away this past week and he took his own life. But this is a gentleman that I would have never ever suspected that was dealing with problems internally. Right? He was, he had masterminds success talking about law of attraction and how you can manifest things. And he was a legit dude and he, and he had a lot of success. And I heard he passed and then I found out how he passed and I just, it just reminded me, just reminded me of that, that concept right there. And so for me, I think the closer we get to death at times, you know, imagining our own and also going to funerals or having somebody close to you get lost, it allows you to really be conscious of what's going on in your life and how good you actually have it and realize that stop comparing yourself to other people's external appearance. So, you know, I forget your question, but yeah, I mean that's, hopefully that helps somebody.

Well, no, I, I, it was all about the mindset. Mindset, you know, performance and okay, so, so how you bring them on?

Yeah. So with that, you know, performance for me is like, okay, how can I make myself into the best possible being? I want to make myself as able as possible. Right? And it's not going to happen overnight. I just want to inch towards it. Inch towards it. If I get, you know, pushed back, fall back, I want to use it as fuel. I want to gather as much data as possible and then come back and do it again. And so I want to get other people to understand that this, this thing about permanence, people think that their results are permanent. You know, in the mortgage industry, I'm

there, I gotta get there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing's permanent. Like, that's the thing. Like, here's, here's another story for you. When I was in the mortgage business, we're making great money. Rates go up over the last year or so. Inventory goes down, refinances are gone. Business gets shrunken. 75, 80%. Right. I'm used to living a certain lifestyle, income coming in, all that. I have to be in a situation now when I, I'm gonna be honest. This, me being human, I went to this situation where like, oh, man, we're gonna have to cut back on everything that we do, our lifestyle, the trips that we like to go on. You know, I don't live a lavish lifestyle, but I mean, I really like to go on trips and have nice things and this and that. And I'm thinking, oh, man, what if we, I started having these thoughts like, what if we have to sell our house and live in a little smaller house and go somewhere and all these thoughts go through your head because you think it's permanent. It's not permanent. You just gotta, okay, what do I gotta do right now to survive this little phase? But it's a temporary phase and I'm built for this. And, and so I, I basically teach people what I go through and how I handle it. And, and what happens for me is I'll never quit, never give up, because I understand that my journey is to inspire people. Whatever I go through, I'm going to use to inspire people and help people with. So I can't give up or quit. That's not, that's not, that's not going to help people. So that goes back to the mission that I'm on, which is very clear, that all people are unstoppable, to live in the life of their dreams. And Mark, what I do is, and I get people to understand this. Your. Once you have a mission Your thoughts, your words, your actions and behaviors, and the environment that you keep, the people you keep around you, family, friends, everybody, associates, have to align with the mission. It has to go towards the mission, has to be building the mission. If it's tearing it down, if it's not going towards, it's going away. It makes very easy, quick decisions of, of eliminate. And it gets rid of chaos and confusion. So I just take people through what I go through and what I've learned from my mentors and my experiences. And I'm very, again, I'll say this again, authentic, open and transparent so people can see truly what's going on. And so, you know, that's. That's been a journey for me as well as everything. I, I'm always in the back of my mind is like, I, I pretend somebody's watching me at all times. And so when there's no cameras, there's nobody around, there's still people watching.

It's. It's Alexa.

She's listening. She's listening.

She's watching too.

IPhone listening.

No, I love that perspective. And you know the takeaway for me again, because I. People, if you're listening, I gotta, you gotta know this. I know, I know, Mike, you're the same way. Is we're a little selfish. When I do an interview with someone, I want a takeaway. I personally want to take. I want my listeners to get something, but I'm always looking something for me like that just resonates with me because I want to learn and grow. And I hope when I was on your show, there was something I said that you're like. I needed to hear that. Now my listeners, hopefully you got some things too, but I need it. And so what you just said to me meant a lot that when we're in that phase and I'll just repeat it, I got to tell you, I like, I want to edify you and tell you, you changed my life here today is that when someone's trying to scale, grow, get up to that level and then maintain it. Your first point early on in our interview was you got to be aligned personally. You got to be aligned. You got to know what you want, know your goal and believe in it and that you know your purpose. But I thought what I took from what you just said next was what's going to a major part of sustaining that was making sure you're aligned with everybody around you, because that's your support group. And if your closest people to you, whether the family, your significant other, associates aren't in Alignment on what you're trying to do, it's going to be a hell of a lot harder. That's what I thought you said.

Yeah, that's what I said. And you know, I was in a. I was in a space yesterday morning with someone and it's a friend and mentor of mine. She's had a lot of success and she's just a. She's just a beast. Not now. I'm not talking about a woman being a beast. Some people say beast, man. I'll say beast. Yeah, beast, powerhouse. And she said something to me in front of a large audience that, you know, I miss you, number one, which was like, man, you know, I got to be around this person more. That that's a sign in environment that's aligned with what I want. And number two was she said, you're just getting started and you haven't even touched the surface of what you're capable of. And that put a perspective in me to like, wow, man. Like, I thought I was doing good right now. This is just the beginning. And it reminded me and then it supercharged me. So I want people like her in my environment. And so that just happened yesterday. So it was, you know, great example.

Wow, congrats. You've had a big week. Wow. To have something like that on the heels of a. Seeing a good friend was commit suicide. And God bless you. Our condolences. Well, number one agency.com that tell us that one. You can tell us where to go.

The number one agency dot com. We'll give you a free strategy call. If you guys want to get on podcasts and make it a part of your marketing, part of your business. It should be. It should be a part of your everyday life. It should be a part of your business. And we can show you how to do that. It's the most efficient and effective way to market your brand mission, your message, get it out there. And also networking. Mark. I paid a guy $10,000 before I really got into the podcast game. I paid a guy $10,000 to get me connected with his network. And when I was doing it, it's like $10,000, man. But what could come from it? I started asking questions like, what could come from this? I could meet one person. It could change my life. So I paid him 10 grand. He starts sending me these connections, LinkedIn connections, messages, text messages connecting me with people. And then he gave it and put it in my court. It's my court now to take advantage of the situation. And I started thinking, man, this is powerful. So now when I take people and help them get on podcasts, somebody comes on your show and you guys hit it off. That goes well beyond a podcast. That's networking, that's relationship building. That can change someone's life, not just their life, but the people that they interact with. Life. This is exponential stuff. I wanted to. I want to impact millions of people, right? And you hear a lot of people say that, and they think that they got to do it themselves. I found a little secret formula. You don't do it yourself. You do it with other people and you connect with other people. You help elevate other people. You give. You pour into people, and then they go out and impact people, and then those people impact people, and then it's an exponential thing, and then there's a flywheel effect. And I figured this out, and now I lean into. Takes a lot of weight off my shoulders and pressure to feel like I got to be the one to do everything. And then now I operate my business this way as well, where I don't have to be everything in my business. I find people that are great people. I find out what their genius and their strengths are, what they like to do, put them in those positions to be successful, and that takes that off my plate.

You're getting me excited. Marketing is one of my favorite topics, and I'm the marketing partner here at the law firm and trust company. We've been doing all the accounting for years, helping build that through the market. Can I add one tip? I want to add a tip.

Let's go.

This is your show.

You're the guest here.

But can I add one tip, too? I want to. I want to see what you think. This tip, my tip is consistency. Because I did my first podcast. I was doing blog talk. I first freaking back in 2005. I'm showing my age here. 2005 or 6, I was on AM radio, you know, local channels, paying play to play, you know, playing, doing am. Then I went to blog talk radio, which was an Internet radio site before itunes had even launched. And then as soon as itunes came out and Buzzsprout and Libsyn and all the different platforms to go, I did it. And so I have done this. Hopefully this will impress you, though. I've done a podcast every week. I mean, there might be one to two a year weeks. I miss holidays, things like that. But for the last 15, 16 years, I've done a podcast every week. And. And I. I think if you want to be on other people's podcasts, you got to Start something. And it's just being consistent. You may have two listeners the first freaking time or zero or zero. Zero. Well, you're hoping your mom's gonna listen, you know, but now, you know what?

Friends and family don't listen. By the way, I noticed this about this friends and family. It's wow. My wife, my kids, I just, I was upstairs before your show. My, My daughter's on tick tock, she's 11 and she's flipping through Tick Tock and I saw her stop on something and hit like. And I'm like, oh, that looks familiar. It was one of my posts and she didn't even listen to it. She just liked it to give me support. And I said, why don't you listen to that? You can learn something. She goes, oh, I've seen them all before, so.

Oh my gosh, how old are your kids?

11. And then I have a 17 year old boy too.

Oh, that's fun. I've got minor from 27 down to 20. I better say 28, 20. I don't know, they're all, you know, they're growing up so fast. But it's funny, I've had them go to my conferences for years. I've written four books, you know, blah blah, blah. I've got my podcast, if you heard, for 15 years. And, and now when they're in their businesses, from real estate to marketing to manufacturing online, they're all little entrepreneurs. They're like, well, dad, what do I do? I'm like, didn't you hear me talk about this? And they're like, yeah, no, I was just selling books. I'm like, holy crap, come on, you know, so you're not alone.

Yeah, well, consistency. So you're saying consistency for sure. I've done 930some podcasts in the last four and a half years. 600 of my own show. And yeah, consistency is all, you know, I leaned into it when I found out that your name appears on their website when you do a podcast and they publish it and your links, your backlinks, I mean, when I heard that and I realized I didn't hear it, I realized it. I said, man, I gotta, I gotta get on as many websites as possible. When somebody Google searches my name, it's pages and pages of somebody interviewing me. Credibility and authority through the roof. So yeah, consistency is definitely the key.

It's so important. And I. You're a machine. I, it took me 10 years to do 500 podcasts, but I did it, you know, and, but I just wanted to say that. Because I think a lot of people, they're not consistent. And I schedule my. I know every day is the same day, same time, every week, every year. That's when I do my podcast. And you just, you just know it. You're going to be in the studio even if you don't have anything to say, you figure out something to say, right? And you just go, oh, by the

way, when there's no listeners, when you're first starting, you got to reframe that and have. Take a different perspective and say, good, because I don't want people listening to me when I suck when I first start. So it's a, it's a good thing, you know, So, I mean, people will get discouraged and they're like, what are you getting discouraged about? This is a platform to practice and

nobody's watching and it's only up from here, you know, you can't go down from zero. So I, I just. It's so powerful. So, Mike, thank you. I love it. We've got your contact information, your website down in the description below. We love what you're doing, helping so many people. And it's nice to just have someone like you said, transparent, honest, unapologetic about the purpose of life and God and, and why we're here. And I just love it. And I want to say thanks again for being here.

Thank you, man. You're welcome. And thank you, you. And you know, I'm gonna. You've done a lot already, but I have a feeling that I'm gonna be able to do something for you that's gonna blow you up even further than you have already. So we're looking forward to working with you and we got to get that going.

Yeah. I think my people are talking to your people. Yeah, we're gonna be good.

Thank you. We're gonna make that happen. By the way, I'm Mark. I'm relentless. So when I know I can help someone, I don't give up.

We all need help, so I'm not going to turn that down. And damn it. Thank you so much. You're awesome. I love your style, your energy. Thanks again. And I know we will see you back here and probably will be on stage someday soon together and wish you the best in your family. And I'm GLAD It's a 17 year old boy. If it was a 17 year old girl, you'd have your hands. Yeah.

So my daughter's 11 and I already lost my hair, so,

yeah, I had twin girls. I love them. They about 20. They come around and, like, dad, you kind of know something.

Thank you.

You know, so how the hell did

you keep all that hair?

Oh, yeah, this. These are plugs.

No, I'm just joking.

No, my natural hair. I mean, I used to have a lot more. Dude, I was Fabio until my girls were teenagers. Then, you know, now it's. No. Oh, you're awesome. Well, thanks again, and we'll see you around, and we'll have you back here soon and wish you the best of successes.