This Is The EASIEST Way To Make Millions In Real Estate

For those of you out there, it's an amazing investment. But it's not only investment, it's a business. And once you start looking at it as a business and a scalable business on top of that, you're going to be saying to yourself, like I said to myself, what took me so long to look at this vehicle? Don't say to yourselves, oh, I could never own an apartment complex. I don't have the money, I don't have the resources. Well, that's what I thought. And when I learned all about seller financing or I learned about syndications, we where you could raise money for deals while the game was completely changed.

I love that concept because if I can just move the needle a little bit on the bottom line, I have an exponential effect on the valuation on the bit on the top end and so I can build equity faster and I don't have to wait for the market to respond. I control my destiny. Welcome everybody to another Main street business entrepreneur interview. This is an influencer in the space of multifamily and I'm so excited to introduce Gino Barbero. I wanted to say that right Gino, formerly known as the pizza guy. 10, 15 years ago he was all over New York making a difference in the restaurant industry and then became a self made millionaire in the space of multifamily with his partner Jake. Jake and Gino, that's their brand and it's such an honor to have him here with us today. Over 1800 units bringing together a community doing mentorship, multiple events a year, weekly coaching for their internal mentories and I'm just so excited to have you here. We need, we need your advice. My community, really, a lot of them want to get into multifamily and we're excited to talk with you, Mark.

Thanks for having me on. That sounds like a lot of crap. It sounds like I've done a lot of crap in these 50 plus years I've been on this planet. But I want the pizza guy. And the pizza guy was good until the pizza guy industry just fell apart for me. And I learned this multifamily thing, I learned this real estate thing. And for those of you out there, it's an amazing investment. But it's not only investment, it's a business. And once you start looking at it as a business and a scalable business on top of that, you're going to be saying to yourself, like I said to myself, what took me so long to look at this vehicle?

Well, yeah, we're going to unpack it in More. And the most important accomplishment of his is his family, his amazing wife and six kids living in Florida, going home every night, every weekend, doing all the family, you know, soccer, music, games, movies, whatever it takes to raise kids nowadays. And thank you for sharing time, your precious time with us today.

So thanks, Mark. Thanks for having me on.

Cool. Okay, so, yeah, we probably should talk about the why first. I mean, let's just get it out there. Some of you may be thinking, oh, I've been single family home duplexes, four plexes, a little commercial, maybe a little industrial. Well, this is a whole other world. Multifamily is more than four units. It can be a lot of units and it's, it's a kind of, sometimes a hard space to define in that way. Tell us what you mean by multifamily and why it's different from a single family home or a duplex. Just kind of get, or even an Airbnb. Like what's different about that space?

Well, when I started out early on, I couldn't flip homes. I couldn't have single family because I had a job, I had a restaurant. So I'm like, why do I want to flip homes and why do I want to have three or four little houses all over the place when I already have a job? So I went straight into multifamily. I couldn't, I couldn't do it otherwise. Where most of us think I need to start out with one or two homes and then I can graduate to multifamily, it really is to me, behavior. It's if you can believe you can do something, then that's what you're going to do. It's behaviors or belief driven. So for me, multifamily, the defining difference is its scalability. Jake and I bought our first property back in 2013. We bought a 25 unit property. Jake was driving around in his car. He was a pharmaceutical sales rep. I had the restaurant. We could manage 25 units rather fairly easily because they were all in one location. Could you imagine the brain damage of having 25 single family homes scattered all over the place? It would be nearly impossible to start that way. We started with 25 units in one location. I think the scalability and the ability to look at it as a business generating revenue is the defining difference and a huge benefit over a lot of the other asset classes, whether it's single family homes you're fixing and flipping. That's to me is the defining difference.

I love it. And that is a dichotomy or what Would some might say the perplexity of, well, I've got a single family home, it's got to be easier than 25 units. But back when I was in my 20s, I had a friend that his dad was a developer and I was, he was such a huge mentor to me or you know, I was like looked up to him and I remember sitting in their house, this is 30 years ago, sitting in his house and he said, you know, Mark, takes just as much time to manage a big deal as it does a little deal. And I've never forgot about that.

And that's a tough one. Mark. I always tell my students, think big, start small. Because if you're out there saying I need to get into a 50 unit because Gino's telling me it's easier, well it is easier once you get into it. But start with an 8 unit, start with the 6 unit, get some type of hands on experience, get some type of credibility. Because that first deal, it took us 18 months for the first deal, but three months later, all of a sudden we're closers and the brokers see that we close that first deal, we closed on a 36 unit on our second deal. So within two years of knowing Jake and having this partnership, we have 60 units and we can manage those 60 units because there's 25 and 36. So you're going to two properties, collecting 60 units. Could you imagine 60 single family homes, you have 60 insurances, 60 property taxes, 60 different tenants scattered all over the place, 60 different lawns to cut, 60 different roofs. You get my point? It's not very scalable, it's very difficult. And for us, like I said, it was, it was my ability that I couldn't get another job. So for those of you out there, if you're starting out in real estate and you're saying to yourself, I don't know where to go, give multifamily a look, don't say to yourselves, oh, I could never own an apartment complex, I don't have the money, I don't have the resources. Well, that's what I thought. And when I learned all about seller financing or I learned about syndications where you could raise money for, for deals, well, the game was completely changed. And of course, you know, self directed IRAs another avenue where we have money in our IRA accounts, where, hey, that's another place to tap capital. So don't have any limiting beliefs about not being able to get into the space. Learn, educate yourself first and then make the decision, oh, I'd rather stick with single family homes or. Oh, I'm going to give multifamily a look because now I know a little bit more about the space and I know how to get into the space.

And I. And I really think too that those, that 25 unit and 35 unit, they have, they have built in management on site, the, you know, the cleaning crew or the handyman service and all that, the little things that are on call. And actually it was probably easier to manage the 60 even than the 25 because now you can have employees that were shared between the two properties because rather than sitting around twiddling their thumbs up.

Mm. The other thing that I should mention, if people don't know this, when you buy an apartment complex, the units are fairly similar. You're buying a 25 unit, usually the hot water heaters are in the same location, you know, the bathrooms in the same location, using the same fixtures, the same flooring. And that makes a huge difference because when you have six different homes scattered all about, there are different sizes, different fixtures, you have different, you know, locations, and they're harder to actually manage. So the maintenance guy needs these types of light bulbs here and all of a sudden this is a 30 gall. This is 60 gallon on our 25 units. You're basically buying boxes that are identical. And that's so easy to manage that process. So you can actually buy additional, additional supplies on there. And it's really rinse and repeat. You turn one unit, the next one's the same with the homes. The homes are different. One can be a four, two, one can be a three. One bedroom, one can have, like I said, a hot water heater, One may have a split ace air conditioner, one may have in the wall, one may have central air with hours. They're all very similar. And that's part of the scalability. Very easy to manage. The property manager, as well as any maintenance techs going out there doing the work as well.

Very insightful. Well, if that doesn't have everybody's interest peaked and I'm. I want to talk about financing and raising capital for this. That we'll come to that in a moment. But if. Let me share, I'll just set the stage and tell me what your perspective on this. To me, what's. What really blew my mind on the. The ability to make multifamily work is the way it's valued. So if I go to a single family home and I tell an appraiser or I'm going to get a loan with a bank, they're going to compare all the comparable sales on that single family or even a duplex in the local area. They don't care what the cash flow is, don't care what the expenses are. What is that house worth compared to everybody else buying crap within a 10 mile radius? When I go multifamily, they don't look at comps, they look at show us your P and L. What is that cash flow after direct costs that that property is creating? And, and then the valuation is a multiple of that cash flow or that net income before depreciation. So I, I just love the EBITDA. For some of you that may not know that term, you know, earnings before your tax, insurance taxes and interest. But I love that concept because if I can just move the needle a little bit on the bottom line, I have an exponential effect on the valuation on the bit of the top end and so I can build equity faster and I don't have to wait for the market to respond. I control my destiny. Now that's what I, that's the perspective I've had. I'm sure you can unpack that more for me and our listeners.

That is the perspective you're basically discussing income over expenses and building a business that's sellable, right? Because that EBITDA and how do you affect it in multifamily? It's called a net operating income. You want to increase your net operating income. When you increase that, you increase the value. You're taking the top line income, all of your net income that you collect and you're deducting any of your operating expenses and you get that net operating number. Let's say that net operating number is $10,000. The property is valued at a million. That net operating income all of a sudden goes up. Because Gino's an amazing operator. He's cut expenses and he's driven income to $20,000 net operating income while you've doubled in that operating income to 20,000 dependent on what the cap rate is on the market because that's how you value real estate in multifamily, I'm not going to the cap rate because that's a rabbit hole. And everyone has their own ideas about cap rate. But you see, I forced it through operations. I, I don't care what the market's doing. I've taken destiny into my own hands. And that's why we say we create multifamily entrepreneurs. Because it's buy right, finance right and manage right. That third level, that process that we talked about, our three step framework that manage Right. Allows you to force that appreciation, increase that net operating income, and through that, I don't know, care what's going on in the market. My property value is going to go up as a result. And then the net benefit of that is you want to pull that equity out of that property. You refinance that property, you crystallize it, it gets refinanced and you put it into another deal. And as you know, the tax guy, a refinance is basically a loan to yourself. You're not paying any taxes on that refinance. So if you're pulling out $100,000 all of a sudden, and I like to say it, that means a lot of pizzas, $100,000. Gino's got to make a lot of pizzas for $100,000. But that's net $100,000. You, you're putting that into your next deal. That's where you find the money for your next deal. That's why people are saying, how do I get money? Well, learn the business, start creating value. Once you start creating value in your portfolio, those opportunities will come about.

So cool. And I, I, you know, and I'm sorry, I, I, and I jumped ahead to your, your three, your three steps or I went straight to manage. But I wanted to do that for you, the listeners that review is here on YouTube where you can say, okay, that's, that's where the money's at. Because once you figure out that I can make an adjustment with utilities or increasing rents or a little deal with the garbage disposal or garbage removal and just little things in landscaping or the, just common area expenses, if you can reduce those by 10% and profit goes up by 10%, you got a 10x or 5x up on the front. It's just amazing. Okay, now leaving that alone, that would be in the manageright bucket. So once, now I jumped ahead to it. Now let's go back to buy. Right. What markets are you liking? I mean, the, the, the beautiful thing about the United States, it's segmented. I could go west coast to east coast, bread basket, small. Yeah. You know what states are hot or not? Do you care about the regions as much as you do the type of deal? How do you go forward, find deals and teach your students to find a good multi unit.

That's a great question. Can I just preface by laying out the framework for everybody, letting them understand what that looks like first? Do you mind if I do that?

Yeah, yeah. Love it.

So when we started doing this, we looked at a wheelbarrow Believe it or not, Jake was cutting his grass and he's into landscaping. And the wheelbarrow, the back leg is the buy right. The other back leg is the finance right. They're both fixed. Once they're done, those legs are fixed. The manage of the wheelbarrow is the wheel because it's always in constant motion. Now, if one of those three is a little faulty, a little wobbly, what happens to the wheelbarrow? It gets tipped over. That's why you have to focus on all three pillars. And Mark, I would even challenge to say that if you're buying a single family home or if you're buying a business, those three pillars are so important to any business because you need to buy the business properly, you need to finance it properly if you're using SBA or hard money or whatever it looks like. But you also need to manage the. So if you're looking at any investment from that perspective, I think you'll be able to create success. Now, specifically to your question, let's break it down into those three different pillars. The buy right. The buy right is important because most people, when they come aboard, they ask that question, well, where can I find deals? Well, timeout. We need to create a buy right criteria. What are you looking for? There are some people who have a ton of money but no experience. So. So they're going to be looking at a different bucket. They may partner with somebody else. Some people have a lot of sweat equity but don't have any capital. They may have another different buyer criteria. If you're starting out in multifamily, the very first thing that I would do is assess my goals. What do I want to do with this investment vehicle? Do I want to leave my job in the next three to five years? Do I want to use it as a retirement? Do I want to buy properties that are going to just appreciate in value but have very little cash flow? Or do I want to buy properties at cash flow and then appreciate and not have that much of appreciation? So when that comes, when you have that clear in your mind, the first thing you need to do as an investor is select a market. And you had mentioned a few markets we like the Southeast for various reasons. Landlord laws are much better in the Southeast because you're basically renting time. You need to get residents out. We're not paying. The eviction laws are more for. They're more fortuitous for landlords down south in Tennessee. It's a, you know, 30 day eviction, five days late, 10 day notice, 15 days by and by day 30, they can, you can get them out. So that's really beneficial. Whereas in Massachusetts you can be waiting nine months to get a resident out. So that's why we choose the Southeast. That's one reason. The second reason is population and job growth. I mean if there's no demand for your, for your product and people are leaving the market, your supply is going to grow and your rents are not going to be able to go. They're going, they're going to go down. So we like the Southeast because there's a lot of jobs that are migrating to Southeast. This is not the Southeast 20 years ago is a much larger educated workforce and more, I think more jobs are going down there. There's a lot of tech. Whether you're in Austin, whether you're in Raleigh, whether you're in Miami, all these tech centers and these people are coming down and moving down. The migratory patterns are there. The baby boomers are leaving the Northeast because it's too cold and it's too expensive and where are they going? So focus on markets in the Southeast and even the Midwest, believe it or not. Markets like Kansas City. Great area. Great market, Kansas City. People like Phoenix don't know why people like Phoenix other than they're leaving California and going to a place where they want to where they want. They, where it's 120 degrees. But when you're looking at a market, the first thing is select the market that you can invest in and then from there start creating buy right criteria. That's what we had talked about as far as what your investment goals are and then what kind of deals you're looking for that we can get into a little bit more if you want to. But that's how you're starting out with, starting out with your goals, what, what you're trying to accomplish and then choosing a market that has that growth, that that's not stagnant. Those, those markets like, you know, in the Midwest that are really dying. Those are markets are really challenging to invest in because you may have supply there, but there's no demand for your asset. And when we do go into a recession, those companies shut down, those jobs get lost. Who's renting those apartments?

Yeah, I really like how you brought up the markets after you pointed out understanding the why and the. And what do you want? Not the where. Don't worry about where yet. Why are you doing this and what do you want? Some people are willing to be hands off without any material participation. They don't care about the depreciation write off. They want to build cash flow or equity. Other people like that sweat, sweat equity crowd or someone that is going to buy local, they can get more involved which unlocks the tax deductions because we let's not carousel spiel. You're not going to get the tax flow through losses and all the write offs even if you are a real estate professional unless you meet that material participation. So these hands off folks, oh, I want a turnkey multi unit. That's cool, that's cool. But just know what you're getting with it and in a lot of times it's going to outperform the mark Wall street for sure. But you can't have your cake and eat it too if you're not willing to get dirty. Do you see a lot of your students wanting to go in their local area so that they can get involved? I guess you probably have a mod podge of people investing across the country and local.

What do you, what do you see more? There are so many different types of students that we have. Our students have closed over 70,000 units. So we've, our students have been very successful. And to bring to your point, you had said about a student who wants, you know, let's say just, they just want to be hands off. If I'm, if I'm a doctor, I'm a neurosurgeon and I'm making 3 million or 5 million dollars a year, I don't have time to run around and invest in multi family and be hands on. I may be a limited partner, I may work in a syndication and jump on that group or I may just invest passively. So it's really important once again to start with the why and understand. Maybe that doctor wants some type of, you know, depreciation. Maybe that doctor wants some type of cash flow every month. So invest passively. That may be the right strategy. As far as our students, I mean there are some students who are in New York, they may not find deals. That's why the community is so powerful, because you're meeting other students in other markets where you can partner. I was in New York, I couldn't find deals in New York. I was fortunate that Jake moved to Knoxville, Tennessee. So my first couple of deals with Jake, he's in Knoxville, I'm in New York. I'm really out of the outside the market. I'm taking a crap shot on Jake. I don't know how good of a partner Jake is. I'm like, I hope he's good, right? And he turned out to be wonderful. So I mean I was always out of, out of my market to first say, but once again it's one of those things. Do you want to do this full time? Do you want to start your own property management company or do you want to have third party? These are all questions that you really need to ask yourself. And how hard do you want to do it as a full time endeavor, three to five years down the road? Or do you say to yourself, you know what, I just want to buy one deal a year maybe and you know, after that one deal a year, after three or four years, I've got three or four assets. Let me reevaluate then and let me see if I can do this full time at that point.

Yeah, I love it now. All right, now let's in our banana split here, let's go right to the middle. We've got our buy, right. We're going to manage it properly, make sure we're steering that wheelbarrow, navigating through the PNL and the EBITDA and trying to create more bottom line and ultimate valuation and cash flow finance. Right. You said something earlier, you did seller financing out of the gate that was interesting. Going down big banks trying to get financing for a multi unit. I could imagine as being a big challenge. What finance method do you like the most?

When we bought our first deal back in 2013, I think market conditions were very similar to what we have right now. It was challenging, GDP was terrible, interest rates were a little bit higher and we had a lot of motivated sellers, we had a lot of supply on the market. Very similar to what's going to be happening right now. And seller financing works in this type of market right now where rates are higher and a lot of these properties are not financeable. Right. So sellers have equity. So they say to themselves, you know What, I've got $3 million in equity, I want to sell this property and I'll take a seller finance note back. But the benefit to the seller is they don't have to pay all their capital gains. They've got a note in the form of some of that sale and they're getting what we call mailbox money. So people would say why would a seller do that? There are material benefits to a seller. Number one, their, their property may not be financeable. Number two, they may be able to defer some of those capital gains. And number three, they've got mailbox money. They've got that's quote unquote true passive income to the seller. The not to the Buyer, it's a bonanza because they need to come up with a lot less money as a down payment. They're getting more equity in the deal because they have less money going into the deal. Cause they can use a seller finance note. And I would challenge everybody in the next 12 to 24 months. This seller financing is going to be a huge strategy we see coming back. We've done already one seller finance deal. The beginning of this year. It was a 132 unit deal. It was only $450,000 as a second. But hey, saving 450 grand was great. We're able to put that money into the property itself. Don't always lead with seller financing. What you ask the seller, understand that the seller needs to have equity in the deal. Understand that the seller probably has to have owned this property for several years and understand that the seller has to have a problem. If there's no problem, then seller financing doesn't work. But as it was back in 2013 and as it is now, we're going to be seeing more problems arising inside the market. Yeah.

And maybe we'll finish with that. The opportunity here in a moment with some of those problems. Some of you go, what? There's a problem in commercial and multifamily. There's a problem out there. But on this financing. So what you're implying is that you still are going to have a first position bank type loan. You're going to need to come down with 20% ready to go and that's where you're going to be partnering. But you create a lot of partnership connections in your community where that neurosurgeon is like I'm in. I want to be the money guy and another worker. Worker is like I'm it.

So and our first deal we did an 80% bank. We had 10% down payment and 10% by the seller. So I mean you can structure it in so many different ways. Let's say Mark owns a property free and clear for 2 million bucks. And Mark is like I'm done. I'm 80 years old. I'm burned out. I don't want this anymore. I mean our students have Bought deals on 100 Seller Finance Note where Mark will say, hey, you know what? Give me a hundred thousand dollars cash. I need some money to pay some bills. I'll take a note for the remainder of that. You pay me monthly installments. It's, it's, it's really. When you look at it, sellers and buyers need to get together and find out what the Best what the best structure of this is because it really, I don't want to say it's the wild west, but you can structure these things any want. You can do interest payments for the next three years. You could do no payments for the six for the first six months because the property is in terrible shape. It's not cash flowing property. So understanding the strategy is great. And for anybody who wants to learn more about it, email me ginoake and gino dot com. You see the book behind me, it's called Creative Cash. We wrote a book on seller financing and master lease options two years ago knowing that the opportunity was going to come about. So if you want to learn more and take a deeper dive, just email me and I'd love to send a copy of a book book to you.

Thank you so much. You stole my thunder. I wanted to sure surely emphasize to my, my listeners and viewers that they, they go check that out. That is obviously many of you already seen that. It's down in the description how to reach out to, to Jake and Gino and what they're doing. It's, it's incredible giving so many people an opportunity to get in the space. So on this financing piece, I'm interested to ask from your experience, where do the big hedge funds and the big syndications come in? Are they trying to poach these smaller 8, 16, 24 unit deals? Are they everywhere? Do you see that? Is it hard to find deals when they're out there knocking on doors too? It seems like it's very competitive with everybody's got a fund now. I got a fund, I'm going multifamily. And you're trying to get out there and build a relationship with this 80 year old mark guy. And they're pounding down his door syndicators, throwing money at him.

I don't got a fun. Yeah, I don't got a fund. I don't, thank God I don't got a fund because the guys who had funds all of a sudden have had to place that capital and over the last couple of years when you have low interest rates, it causes euphoria and it causes what we, what we call a bubble. And it's ironic, you would think that the smaller properties would get scooped up by private equity in these syndications. They don't want them because, because they're much harder to manage. Why would I want to buy a 24 unit property when I have $72 million in my fund? I want the 100 units, I want the 300 units, I want the Trophy assets. So Jake and Gino did the opposite. Over the last two years we were buying smaller deals because the bigger deals made no sense. They were so overpriced because there's so much capital at such a low cost of capital that they were taking on a lot of risk. So for us, we did the opposite. We bought smaller deals over the last two to three years and, and in the beginning of this year, well, now these bigger deals have popped up because the capital is drying up. Because what's going on right now, Mark, is there's something called capital calls that are going on in the market right now where these big syndicators and these big hedge funds are not able to have distributions. They're coming up light. All of a sudden their financing has gotten more expensive because their interest rates have gone up and they need to call capital. So Mark, you're in my deal. Give me some of your money, Mark, because I can't do it. If not, I'm going to buy you out and I'm going to give you 80 cents on the dollar. So what ends up happening is Mark is going to give money back to the syndicator as a capital call. Now the next deal that this syndicator has, Mark's not going to put money in that guy's deal. So this is where the opportunities are because there's a lot of capital calls going on, a lot of uncertainty and a lot of investors want to hold on to their money because they're not getting paid on the deals that they have because these syndicators overpaid over the last two or three years. So there is the opportunity that's going to happen in the marketplace I think in the next two years.

No, I think you're right on. And it's, and I would venture to say it's not just syndicators struggling. Anybody that went out and bought a commercial building or a multifamily. The banking strategy for these big multi units and commercial buildings over the last 15 years has been what's called bridge financing where there's an adjustable rate, you get a good rate up front, but the bank says, but we're going to come back and talk in eight years or 10 years or five years and three years. And yeah, we're going to reevaluate it. And when you're buying this big commercial building, like that's fine. Interest rates haven't moved in 10 years. That's cool. We'll talk. And they sign the dotted line now this year, those adjustable rate mortgages which we saw happen in the residential arena in 2007 and 8. Now we're dealing with it here in 20, 23, 24, the commercial and multifamily. And it's, it's breaking the backs of some of these big projects and we're

seeing deals and deals and you see in other areas of commercial office space, see the debt markets are having problems because it's not so much the multi family, but it's office space that is just going to get crushed. So when you have that on your balance sheet as a bank, you're saying to yourself, well, I'm in trouble, I'm going to lose that. And you have multifamily here. The problem that a lot of these operators did is they were euphoric. They said, hey, interest rates aren't going to go up. We're going to get a bridge loan for three years. We're going to have this property project done in three years. It's not going to take us 36 months to turn 100 unit property. Well, no one factored in Covid, no one factored in supply chain, no one factored in labor shortages. And all of a sudden a project that took 36 months, they're not even, you know, it's going to take you four years. So you're going past that. So the bridge loan is really, think about it. It's a bridge to get from A to B. The three years. We don't use bridge debt. The only kind of quote unquote bridge that we'll use, we'll use credit unions which typically give a five year term. Five years is more than enough time to stabilize a property and to be able to at least refinance it or to be able to sell it. And community banks, five years, you know, minimum. We don't like the bridge because when you are up against the timeline, so many different things can happen. And three years really is a sure. I mean Covid was over years to be four years that Covid happened. So three years can go in an instance. And a lot of these people who have done in bridge debt, they're the ones who are in trouble right now.

Which summarizes the middle aspect of your training and that's finance. Right. So I'm going to repeat them. Buy right. Finance. Right. Manage. Right. The keys to success with Jake and Gino. Wow. I love it. Boom.

Love it.

Well, I.

So good.

Well, again, tell everybody where they can get more information about you and what you're doing and help someone start dipping their toe into this space and learn

just go to Jake and Gino dot com. You'll see the podcast there. You'll see the blog articles. We've got books on there. And have an open mind. Don't say I'm that guy who's going to be in single family or I'm that woman who's going to be in single family. I can't buy apartments. If a pizza guy and a drug repair can buy apartments, anybody can buy apartments.

That's true. The American dream, alive and well. Oh, I love it. Gino, thanks for being with me today and thanks for inspiring so many real estate investors at all different levels and walks of life and around the country. We wish you the best and you just keep killing it. We appreciate you.

Thanks, Mark. I'll see you soon, brother. Thank you.

Thank you.