What to Do If You Can't Pay Your Taxes

You don't even know what you owe and you're scared to death. Ah, I can't pay, so I'm not going to file even an extension. When you file an extension, you avoided the worst penalty of all: failure to file. Failure to file is 5% a month of what you owed. Failure to pay, because you bought time, that penalty is 0.5% per month.

Much more digestible.

Just guesstimate. File. You can always amend. There's no penalty to amend later. Get the 5% penalty off the table as soon as possible.

Welcome everyone to the Main Street Business Podcast. This is Matt Sorenson, so excited to be with you today with the incredible Mark J. Kohler.

Thank you. This is not exciting though, this is a hard one.

I know, but it's something you need to know.

Yeah.

And if you clicked on this because you might be in a bucket where you care about not going to jail because the IRS is going to chase your butt down—

that's what you think—

like Wesley Snipes. Don't be like Wesley Snipes. Yeah, pay his taxes and went to prison. Okay, you want to make sure you pay your taxes And if you're in that situation where you owe, we want to go over some solutions and strategies for you.

Yeah. And we are going to do a little mindset work here at the beginning because I don't want to make light of this. We know some of you listening have a friend, a family member, a parent, yourself, and you haven't maybe filed for a year or two. You don't even know what you owe and you're scared to death. And we've— Matt and I have had countless conversations with people like this. And Matt and I have, you know, sometimes I don't have enough to pay on April 15th or October 15th. I've done a payment plan at one point in my career. So let's— so before we tell you what your options are, let's talk a little bit about the mindset here. The IRS is not going to put you in jail. Can you, you know, like, you're— if you really not want to pay the IRS and fight them for the next 5 years, at some point they will throw you in jail. But if you're trying to figure this out, you're trying to pay, you're trying to get good, You're not going to go to jail.

So yeah, what— here's, here's probably the most likely outcome though, and problem we see, which can be devastating. I mean, obviously going to jail is like— that does happen. It's a small percentage of people, and it's, it's tax fraud. That's what you're going for. But people that just aren't paying, um, what's gonna start happening is you're gonna have federal tax liens against any assets you have, destroying your credit. And by the way, the states are more aggressive than the IRS. So I know you want to— we don't want to freak people out, but I just also want to be— take this serious. Yeah, like, kind of like, this will come around and slap you in the ass if you don't start paying attention.

And I thought the worst thing you were going to say is— I'll say it starts to snowball, it gets out of control, um, and then you get to the point where you would never be able to pay it, and now you're in bankruptcy.

Yeah.

And you—

and it destroys your Yeah, and I hate to keep piling on, but I know clients too that have missed out on family trips, important things in foreign countries because their passport can't get renewed because they owe the IRS.

Wow. Now I'm going to— I'm going to throw out one more lifeline here. I want you to know— Wow.

I feel like people are like locked and loaded with their, you know, somewhere.

That's no, no. No, do not do— you know, I'm trying to let you know that this is more common than you realize. This happens to a lot of people. There is a path and you can take care of this. The, the best thing to do is to start taking action immediately. And the fact you're watching or listening to this right now is a huge step because it's painful. And I know many of you haven't even talked to your spouse about this. Your spouse may be at home thinking everything is you know, peachy fine, whatever. You, um, may not have told anyone, and I will just say, when problems like this get under— get hidden and put away, they get worse. The stress, the high blood pressure, it is not worth it. So you need to start talking about it and getting help. There is a path. Okay, so there we go. I just wanted to say that right out of the gate.

Yeah, yeah, it's important.

Oh yeah, okay.

Well, let's talk about April 15th, which is just barely in the rearview mirror here. It's the big deadline of when you need to file your tax return. Now, you could have filed an extension on your personal return up until October 15th, but April 15th's a big deadline. And I think we have 3 categories that you could be in.

We have 4.

I added a 4th.

You have 4, okay. And because we didn't even go down this crazy part, you've not filed your taxes for several years. Number 1. Now that is red alert, probably the worst. I'm gonna say number 1. And then let's go from worst to the least stressful. Number 2 is you did not file an extension.

Yeah, you didn't file on April 15th, nor did you even do an extension.

Yeah, so you're like, and a lot of people do that 'cause they're like, ah, I can't pay, so I'm not gonna file even an extension. You know, whatever. You know, you think—

Just give it a little more time.

Yeah, and you think the IRS, you know, there's forgiveness here or something. No, there's not. We'll come back to that. Okay, so number 2, you haven't even filed an extension. Now you filed 2024. Yeah. But just 2025 for some reason got away from you. You're nervous, you're scared, you got busy, you forgot, you didn't file an extension and you think you owe too. Yeah. That's category 2.

All right, now the 3rd category is—

Extension and owe?

Well, I think, oh, we're going in worse.

No, I think worse.

Yeah. Let's say worse is, is you filed by April 15th and you owe money and you don't have enough to send the big lump sum on to cover that amount that you actually owe, but you've already filed.

Yeah, I like that. And the reason why I'm going to put that— I agree with you on the third worst— because now you've told the IRS what's going on. I owe you, I filed, I can't pay. So now you're in a different track.

Yeah, with them.

Now if The fourth, which is the least worrisome, is you file an extension. So the IRS does not know what's going on yet. And, and you owe and you think you owe. You don't know how much because you haven't filed yet, but you file an extension.

No, but you're pretty sure you owe.

Yeah. Yeah.

You're like, I know this is funny.

No, no. You know what's funny? I feel this. Tell me if you like this. Let's now go in reverse back.

I love it.

Okay, so for those of you in one of those 4 categories, let's go over them again. Worst, you haven't filed for years. Number 2, you didn't even file an extension and you think you owe. Third, you filed but you owe. Or 4, you filed an extension and probably owe. So we're going to go in reverse now. If you file an extension and owe, what would you do? Or should we talk about what the damage is?

Yeah, I think, well, remember when you, let's talk about this one. When you filed that extension, that was only an extension of time to file. The taxes that you still owed for 2025 needed to have been paid by April 15th. So you did not extend when the payment should have been made. So if you're in that category, the right way to have done that would've been to send a tax payment estimating what you would've owed, what you think you would've owed, still on April 15th. So that's where you're sitting right now.

Yeah, I know. I'm going to— I'm— I— Matt knows I probably say too much. I'm full transparency. I've been on the phone with my executive assistant all morning. She goes, you know, we're filing an extension. I always do. And by the way, we need to throw this out. By filing an extension, you reduce your chances of an audit. Yeah, you actually do. So anybody that's told you, you better file by April 15th, you're going to get audited. Bull crap, couldn't be wronger, more wrong. There is so much data to show if you file an extension, give yourself time to file properly, and even pay later in the summer, you reduce your chances of an audit 'cause the IRS is already dealing with everybody that filed. You're like at the end of the line. So I'd rather be at the end of the line than the first in line. Okay, now I wanna say this. Me, I filed an extension and, I'm sending money, probably not enough, so I'm still gonna owe, but I'm gonna send in all I can, and that's okay. Here's the numbers. When you file an extension, you avoided the worst penalty of all: failure to file. Failure to file is 5% a month of what you owed. Not good. But if you let the IRS know— but if you file an extension, IRS is like, "All right, at least we know you're in the system. We know you're not trying to hide from us. You filed an extension. We're going to wait for that return you have until October." It's only a penalty for failure to pay because you bought time. That penalty is 0.5% per month.

Much more digestible.

And then interest. With the federal rate last year was 7%. I think it's about the same this year. So what does that mean? If you owe the IRS $10,000, you owe them approximately $50 a month. That's the penalty until you file and pay. Um, and the interest is approximately, um, half a percent per month because it's 7% divided by 12, blah blah blah. So you would owe about $58 a month in interest. So for $108 a month or part thereof, that's what you owe on a $10,000 bill. So if you pay in July, then you've got to pay for your April month, part thereof, May, June, and July. That's 4. So I would have to pay $200 in penalties in July and $225 approximately in interest. So you're out about, yeah, $450 to $500. That's the damage. So it's not the end of the world. That's why we put this category for— yeah, that was a mouthful.

Yeah. And I think in that situation, you've bought yourself 6 months here to get your crap together, to get the funds together so that when you file that, that final return on October 15th and there's an amount owed, you can send that in. Now, you would— when you file on October 15th, you're going to have all these additional penalties Mark talked about there. So if you owed, let's say, $100,000, let's go more into some bigger numbers here. You're my— and it's another 10% of interest over that window, plus the failure to pay penalty or excuse me, failure to pay penalty. We're maybe going to owe another $10,000.

September, October. So it's 7 months times the approximate— it'll be around $3,500 for that.

Plus, plus I got the half a percent. Well, sorry, I got the interest on that.

That's the interest and penalty. Okay. So instead of $400 or $450, $500 a month on $10,000, it would be about $4,500. Yeah.

So $400 grand. Anyways, what I'm just saying here is it will sting a little bit. Like, this is not free. And some people will say, well, it's cheaper. I'll just keep that money invested and it's cheaper. That's debatable. It's, it's not cheap to just not pay the IRS on time, but it's not bad either. Yeah, it's like you get your crap together and get ready to try to throw that final amount in by October.

It's approximately 1%. So in summary, if that was a little garbly goop, I'll just say this. If you file an extension, it's approximately 1% per month for penalties and interest, approximately. So if you owe $100,000, it's going to go $1,000 a month. $6,000.

All right.

Until they tell the time. Exactly.

Wait until October 15th.

If you wait until October 15th, it'll be around $6,000. Now, let me just say, the failure to file kicks in if you don't file. So let's transition to the second worst scenario. You did not file an extension. Now, some of you listening to me, this is after April 15th, you're like, holy crap, I wish I would've filed an extension. Okay, you didn't, don't beat yourself up. You filed prior years, this is just 2025 we're looking at, this is this category. So you didn't file an extension and you owe, could be 10 grand, could be 100 grand, but what's going to kick you in the can is this failure to file.

Yeah.

Now that's 5% on top of that 1% I was talking about. Now it's 5% on top of that. They're there. They go hand in hand. Failure to file is 5% a month. Failure to pay is the half a percent plus the interest on that. So now you got that 1% hanging over here plus the 5%. That's about approximately 6% a month adding up quick. So what's your solution? File. Yes, file right away. Even if you owe, at least file. You're like, well, I don't want to tell the IRS. You already owe them.

Yeah, they will get around to you whether you file or not.

Yes.

Especially if you've got 1099s, W-2s, you got a business, you got reporting there, you're going to be like, you got a business return you filed. I'm like, where is this? I know a lot of people think, well, I'm off the grid. They don't see this. No, they come around eventually. I mean, they're not the fastest, most sophisticated agency in the world. They've got massive powers when they do get you in the crosshairs.

And I want to tell you again, some of you are like, yeah, Mark, but I don't have all my info. I don't have all my 1099s. My books are a mess. Just guesstimate, file. You can always amend. There's no penalty to amend later. And so just now you got to be close. And if anything, even estimate a little high, but file. You're not going to be able to pay anyway. Who gives a rat's ass? Get it in there. Get that. Get the 5% penalty off the table as soon as possible. In fact, if some of you are listening now, it is still April. You're— it's all— you're just paying 5% for the month of April, and then if you get into May, it's another 5%. So just go file something before April 31st and get that one over with, and know that you're gonna file a better return later. That's okay.

Okay, let's, let's transition now to where we said, all right, let's say You, you filed an extension and you owe, and now it's April 15th, or you filed and you owe, right? So, so now you basically have an amount that you owe the IRS, and we can loop the states in here too. There's some variances obviously between the states, but you owe taxes and the IRS knows it. And yep, so let's get to not filed. For several years all on its own, unless you want to try to tackle that before we dig into your options. Because I, I think where we need to get here is, is, okay guys, the last day was up. There's no extension on the extension. I either filed and I owe, or October 15th hit and now I still owe the IRS. I don't have the money.

Okay, I like that, Matt. Let's get to kind of the DEF CON 1 here. But, but I wanted to say this, there was that third category of that you already filed and you owe and you're listening today. The extension thing is irrelevant. You didn't need to file an extension because you filed. Uh, you didn't file an extension, who cares, because you already filed. So some of you there that you're like, hey guys, I filed and I owe, will you just get to that point? You know, well, your, your road is going to be— you're going to be on the same path or road as the people that haven't filed for years. You just owe the IRS. And what are your choices? Now, Matt, you're really good at summarizing this. I like it because you can— there's some payment plan options.

Yeah.

Sooner you get engaged with the IRS on this, the better. Yeah.

And I think once that amount is stated and the IRS has it, it's going to take them a couple of weeks and it might be up to a month. And then you're going to get a letter in the mail saying, hey, you need to send us money. And if you don't, you're going to get tax liens. It's not going to look good for you. And the states might send you that letter in a few days. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. We've got to— we've got to add the state conversation here too. But I want to point out where Matt just went. I like that you just said that the next thing that's going to happen once you do file and you catch up those prior years or you did it for this year, whatever, that letter comes in the mail, do not put it in the drawer.

Yes, please.

Please, I beg of you. I'm almost emotional about that. Do you know how many, in my 25-year career, how many clients have shown up with a shoebox of letters, scared to death and in tears? And they didn't have to be like that. It really didn't. So the first thing I'm going to say, you get that letter in the mail, let's open it and talk. Gosh, that's what I just, I—

Yeah, the nice thing is, I mean, of this, I mean, we are in a really difficult spot, but in the IRS's eyes, you are in collection. And I mean, you need to realize that you are a collection— you're a problem on their list right now. So you want to get off the naughty list, literally.

Here, you said that. Okay, the naughty list.

The IRS gave you some easy ways.

Oh, I give them a call.

You could call them.

Okay.

And wait on hold for a couple days, or you can just go online.

Okay.

Now you can request this stuff online. I've done both, actually. On this is— I have not done a payment plan or anything like— I've done this 180-day extension. I think this is the most common one and this will buy you 180 days. That's half a year here, essentially, right? Yeah, it's like 6 months.

Yeah.

So I tell you, did I get that wrong? All right, let's find you 6 months of time. And if it's $100K or less, there's no fee for this. You basically get off the naughty list. The IRS is like, you reached out to us, you said you're going to pay us, and this could be a lump sum. You can send it in chunks as you go, or you just wait until the 180s and send them the same amount or the full amount. Now, interest accrues.

And the, I didn't pay penalty, so it's that 1% a month. That 1% a month. And by the way, so you know, it goes up to 25% total. Once it hits that, that is over except for interest. But that half a percent every month of penalty continues to chunk, chunk, chunk away until you finally pay the damn thing off. But I'd like, I wanna repeat what Matt just said. If you owe less than $100 grand, you either call the IRS or go online and say, hey, I filed, don't be too mad. I know I owe, but I need 6 months. Can you work with me please? And if you, and when you request that, it's like an automatic. Yeah.

It's not, and you're not filling out a financial statement and all this other stuff that you have to do and some other steps here where you're showing the IRS that your financial situation's too tight to send them all the money, you don't have the money. Like, you know, they're— this is just, they take your word for it. They're like, you got 6 months, go figure it out. Okay, now you're off the naughty list.

Love it. Now I want to digress again. First tip I just gave from a moment ago was do not put that letter in the drawer. Number 2, you are going to get phone calls from scam artists like you will not believe, and companies that are trying to just maybe help you. I do not know. But to just— you're— when you owe the IRS, it becomes public record. I don't even know where—

if you get a federal tax lien filed, well, that's when it hits.

Yeah. And what, what's going to happen too is when you owe the state, they unlock those— that notice too. I, I've had calls, and everybody gets them. Everybody gets a call.

How are they gonna— they just— that's the shotgun approach. They assume that You know, 1 out of 10 people owe the IRS.

So I wanted to say this: the IRS will never call you. I want to repeat this again. The IRS will never call you. Anybody calling, say, hey, this is the IRS and we need payment immediately, or we're going to come seize your home, or whatever— they will do that. The scam artists, they will call you and go, hey, we understand you owe the IRS, we can help you, and they're going to want to get paid. Please do not engage with these people. You don't know where they're at and what they could do with— in bad ways. Just hang up. Just do not yell at them. Do not. But just know the IRS is not going to call you. That's one of the biggest tips I want to make. You call the IRS, the IRS will mail you. That's it. And if you engage with a practitioner, they can call a hotline to talk to the IRS on your behalf, not be on hold forever.

That's it.

They will never call you. So be careful.

Yeah. And so 180 days— sorry, 180 days.

Yep.

So right there, time, $100K or less, you can do it online. It's free. If it's over $100K, you can still call in and probably get it. And you're committing again in a lump sum. Now, what if I can't do it in 180 days?

Well, this is where the payment plan process begins.

Sometimes they call it an installment agreement.

Yep.

The old language.

Yep. And I, like I admitted earlier, I've been on an installment agreement before too. The only— there's several caveats here. You're only going to get the installment agreement if your filings are up to date. You got to— you can't get on an installment agreement if you wait that, those, that 6 months and then another tax return is due and you haven't filed that one. You got to file that one because, see, let's say you wait till October and then you ask for 6 months and you don't get there. Well, we're in the middle of 27. Now, 2027, and you already—

the '26 returns due on April 15th.

Yeah. So you're, you're already going to be on extension then. Well, you know what? I don't— I think I'm going to ask for an extension. Yeah, I wish. And see, this is Sarah Fowler. She's on our board of directors for Main Street Professionals. She is our IRS compliance expert. She is so good. But she's going to hate me giving any advice at this juncture. But I will say Once you need to get on an installment agreement with the IRS, I'm just going to say it very, very directly. You need a practitioner's support. You need a help. You need help from a professional because this is where the IRS is going to be already calling you or not calling you. They're going to be going hard. You're going to be getting letters, threats, liens. It's not going to be pretty. You're 6 months You know, not on the naughty list is gone. You're back on the naughty list. And, uh, we've got professionals in our network, the Main Street Tax Pro Network. Farrah Sala is one of our superstars. That's my opinion. I think you need to get help at this point because there's so many nuances. There really are.

Yeah. And, um, and get someone good, you know, and I— because that's where you'll get— you could be getting blown up with a bunch of people that are just trying to rip you off, frankly. And don't throw $10,000, $20,000 to these places that frankly have no business being in the business. But they scare people into, you know, and they overpromise what they can truly deliver. But, but let's say you're there, you've engaged a professional, maybe it's your accountant, maybe it's Farrah, maybe it's— this is what we don't do. This I really— I'd say in our office, like, we're tax planning and we're looking forward. Can I just say How do you not get here? Be engaged in taxes. It's the number one expense you have as a successful business owner. You might have payroll as number one, and maybe that's paying yourself too, but the number two expense in a successful business is taxes. And so you've got to be like optimized for this, and that's what we're helping clients do. We do a comprehensive tax and business consult, so you're using every strategy to minimize what you're going to have to send the IRS in the first place.

Yeah. And, and that's— man, there's so many little off-ramps here. But I want to say, don't wait to get a tax strategy plan in place for moving forward until this is resolved. Start both simultaneously. So engage with a compliance expert that can get you on the right installment agreement. Maybe you want to fight it. Maybe you need to fight it. Maybe you have an innocent spouse provision. Maybe it's under $50,000. It's over $50,000. It's over $100,000. It's under $100,000. There's all these little avenues that a professional that negotiates with the IRS every day can help you with. Our job is on the other side of the table is saying, okay, now let's never get here again and let's start a strategy plan for 2026 and moving forward. Do those together. Don't wait.

Yeah, you need to play the whole game. We're offense for you. We're helping you save and be proactive. This tax problem you've got in the rearview mirror from prior years, you're playing defense. You're not scoring points. You're just hoping not to get scored on by more than those guys. That was good.

That's a good one.

I like that. So do both because that's how you're going to win the game. All right. So let's talk about what this long-term installment agreement payment looks like, though. This is in general 72 months is what the IRS allows for. That's going to give you 5 years.

Yeah.

So got my question in my mouth. That's 6 years, actually.

That's why.

All right. 6 years that you can pay this off. Now, there is an application fee for this.

Depending on the amount, it can be automatic.

That's true. And there is low-income waivers too if you're in financial distress. But the biggest piece of this though is you're filing a financial statement to the IRS. You have to open the kimono, so to speak. You're telling them what you make, you're telling them what you have in bank accounts, equity in your home, investment accounts. You have to disclose all of your assets to the IRS. And if you have a bunch of assets on there that's not in something protected, like maybe equity in a home or retirement house, the IRS is going to be like, sell that and pay us. Why are we putting on an installment agreement?

Yeah, it's— and this is where the negotiator on your behalf can help you. Now, let's digress here. Another off-ramp. Watch out for that. Oh, that sexy commercial at 2 in the morning when you're depressed. We settled with the IRS pennies on the dollar. We will get your tax bill down to nothing. You can call us. We will help you out. And you're like, you'll be tempted. You're going to want to call them and you go, holy crap, why am I doing an installment agreement? Mark and Matt are idiots. I can settle for pennies on the dollar. Please, please know that those are rare circumstances where you have to show the inability to pay.

Yeah.

So that little financial statement that you're having to file under oath, you better be dead broke and no foreseeable income in the future. That's when the IRS cuts these deals. The people in the commercial are sitting by a swimming pool in Florida and look like they're living the high life, that may be 5 years later because the IRS is not going to cut a deal with you on this offer and compromise because that's only if they're like, you're a waste of time.

Yeah. So when I was in law school, I worked in the Low Income Taxpayer Clinic and then I did it at the Bar Association here in Arizona. I go volunteer.

Well, that's where we met. I went in to get some help. He's living in a house down by the river.

So, but this is interesting. 'Cause I would do these offers and compromise. I did 'em a little bit as a lawyer too in private practice. But basically the strategy, and I learned this from my professor, was when we would present that financial statement, we'd make our case, you would come up with a settlement amount, right? You would say, okay, well, they owe 100, but they can only afford to send in 10. But you always had to have an answer of where's this 10,000?

You can't— why can't you do 90?

You can't be like that. $10,000 is in their bank account because they can just go zap it. Yeah, yeah.

No, you don't.

Yeah, I know.

It's always like 24 hours later. It was funny.

It's always like their mom is gonna loan them 10 grand. Yeah, to pay you, IRS. And so, so basically what I'm trying to get here is you really got to be in massive financial distress with no assets to get that quote-unquote pennies on the dollar.

Yeah. And the last point on this too, I've done many offers. When you go make this offer, we've got— we'll pay you $10,000. They'll say, give us all your financial statements. They're going to do their homework and say, where's this $10,000 coming from? And by the way, buckle up. It'll be about a year till you get your answer while penalties and interest continue to ratchet up. It's rolling the dice, people. And the IRS may come back and go, nah, You've got a job. You could probably afford $25,000. We'll take payments.

Yeah.

And there's no guarantee. And now the better the expert you work with that can help you through this. But just, I guess my message here is be careful of the pipe dream offer and compromise. Be careful of the phone calls. Be careful of the scam artists asking for money upfront. Go to our network, the Main Street Tax Pro Network. These are people that we have trained. We cannot guarantee they're perfect either, and they're not going to be incompetent or competent. We can't do that. But we do know they've been through our program, they've listened to Mark and Matt countless times, they've had to to be there, and they're going to weekly trainings or they wouldn't be on our network list. Still do your due diligence, but try to find someone there and then ask for some references. Find, find a professional that's going to help you through. It's not going to be a one-and-done, one month it's over. This is a process, and you need to work with someone that you can trust and be with and stand talking to. Yeah.

And I think the— my takeaway, last point here is attack this like, just like you do in any aspect of your business or any way you're trying to grow and build wealth. Get focused on it and attack it. This is going to weigh you down. This is going to weigh you down. But mentally, if you can get in the mindset of I'm attacking it, I'm making progress on this, it's not going to happen overnight, but I'm going to get the pieces moving. I'm going to stay consistent on it. And this is going to be history, ancient history for me. And then get engaged in your tax planning now and get things going on the right track. It takes It takes a little bit of transitionary point, but just get focused on it and like, be like, I'm solving this. And it'll be a little empowering to just get that ball rolling.

Yeah. You know, I— and I'm going to be very direct here— a lot of our little off-ramps here that we're talking about are the most important part of this podcast. Not you can get an installment sale. That's not the point. The point is managing your mind and your family and your emotions And I'm going to say this too, another little side note. We've had so many clients are like, well, the last thing I'm going to do is keep making money. Then I'm not going to build my business. I'm not going to work harder because the IRS is just going to take it. So I'm going to be broke until the IRS finally lifts me out from under their thumb. Then I'll go make money. People, that— no, not a good plan. The more productive you can be with your head up, Looking to the future, making money, trying to be productive is going to help you get out of this debt sooner than trying to cut a deal and be broke. I mean, I don't know how to say it.

Amen. I mean, and I think, you know, we know you're the Main Street business owner, the typical person listening to this podcast. You're an entrepreneur. You get excited about solving problems and taking charge on things. You need to do that here with your tax situation. I know the IRS sucks. No one likes paying their taxes. No one likes being behind on something like this and being in a collection process where the power is totally on the federal government side. We get it. It sucks. But be the solution. Take action on it. Get going on it. And also get a strategy and plan of how you can pay as little as legally possible when you file that next return. And that's where we can help. At our law firm, KK Swartz.

Yeah. One last point. If you want my silver bullet, and this is typically going to be the most common solution when you owe the IRS and where I would encourage you to focus, I'm going to give you 3, 3 steps. One, be proactive and deal with it. Number 2, keep making money and get a tax plan moving forward so you don't get in this problem again. And number 3, you're going to go borrow from someone. That's it. I really— you would do better off promising your mom, your dad, your brother, a business associate, a friend, someone, because the sooner you can stop these penalties and interest with the IRS and get on a payment plan with a person, not the IRS, and not showing you opening your kimono to the IRS and everything you've got, because they'll start hitting accounts, they'll start leaning stuff. If you've got any equity at all in a home or an asset, go offer that to a friend or family member and say, I will give you all the equity in my home as a backup. Please loan me the money to take care of the IRS and get on a 5 or 10-year payment plan with them and then go out and make some money and get a good plan.

Yep. Love it. Well, thanks, everybody. If you're in this situation, we understand it's painful.

God bless.

Hopefully some of these thoughts and ideas can be helpful. To you to start taking action and start attacking this problem. And make sure you're subscribed to the channel, the podcast. Give it thumbs up, 5 stars, kudos, whatever. Like it, share it. We'd love to see you here next time. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you.