When To And When Not To Call Your Lawyer!

Every business has typically a standard contract for their provision of services or goods. Whether you're selling a good or a service, you're going to have a standard contract that says, here's what I provide, here's what you pay me, and here's the terms of how we work together. You should have your lawyer look at that standard contract and provision of services. Now, you might modify that for particular customers or a product or service you're providing, but kind of your standard template that's used every day in your business that is relied upon for you to get paid or not. You should have a lawyer involved in making sure that it's tight for you, that it protects you, because, let's be honest, most. Most of your customers are just going to sign whatever agreement you send. So make sure it's got the terms in there that outline how you really want to operate, how you want to collect fees, and how your business runs. So have that reviewed by a lawyer.

I'm just saying, give your attorney a budget. Say, I need an hour with you. I want to talk about my contracts. Here's my service mix or product mix. Can you go review the contract? How much time do you need? Oh, you need two hours? Fine. Then let's get back on the phone, follow up, go through it, and be a part of the process. So if you feel like you're overwhelmed financially, bankruptcy is not a bad thing. Now, there is a caveat. If you call it bankruptcy attorney and go, hey, I don't know if I want to claim bankruptcy, but I don't want free advice. I'll pay you for a half hour, an hour. I need to know my options. Would that be fair? I don't want you to just recommend bankruptcy, but I want to pay for a half hour to an hour to look at my options. I think you've got a pretty good shot at getting some decent advice.

Welcome, everyone, to the Main street business podcast with Matt Sorenson and Mark Kohler. We are so excited for today's episode,

when to call your lawyer.

I mean, one of us is excited.

Well, I. That was good. Hey, we're on location. There's a little delay, you know. Yeah, I was like the reporter down on the field at the super bowl. You know, they're like, hey, lost the signal.

We've lost the signal.

Yeah. How's Mahone doing? What? What? Okay, so anyway, yes, I am on location today in Las Vegas. Alive and well. Vegas is still thriving. Dude. I am looking out my window at this huge. The new ball dome thing that they're building. Have you seen the pictures of.

No.

Oh, my gosh. You got to Google it. It's. I don't know what they call it. I'm. I'm embarrassed. I think it's the dome. But Bono, you two is the artist that's going to perform in there. It'll be done next year, I think. Billion dollars. It's a big black ball with like all these LED lights. It's. It's supposed to. It's going to be amazing. So anyway, if anybody hasn't googled that, check out Las Vegas Dome. Bono. It's going to be a big deal anyway. I just want to throw that out for those, you know, Vegas travelers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what's it called? The Sphere. The Sphere, yeah. Today's show is brought to you by the Las Vegas Visitors Bureau. I want to thank them for their sponsorship of the Main street business podcast.

Yeah. We do have some coupons for any of you that are looking for, you know, we got a bogo.

We got a bogo. A buy one, get one.

Something good. Oh, my gosh.

Okay. Well, we do have a real podcast today, folks. Sorry, we're, you know, we're just trying to have a good time, but we're talking about when should you call your lawyer? Mark and I are lawyers, so we want to let you know. When should you be calling us?

Yeah. And by the way, we've had people listen to the show on a regular basis. Wonderful fans, five star reviews, and they go, you have a law firm. We're like, yeah, what the hell do you think we are doing? But this is not a promo. I think we're going to have. More often than not in this podcast, the statement don't call us. You know, this is. This is the lawyer you would call. But no, we've got a law firm with 14 lawyers. We're helping clients around the country. We have a very specific boutique skill set as a law firm. I think many of you that don't know that you're going to enjoy to hear that. We have our certified tax network of tax advisors. We're training around the country. We have our directed Ira Trust company where we're helping. By the way, do you know your background is directed Ira today?

I know you should have.

Did you do that on purpose?

No, it's just, you know, Tristan in the studio, you know.

Okay, okay. Oh, we got our studio crew. They're changing the backdrop right now, so that's cool.

But, you know, we got KQS Lawyers. That's the law firm. So you get to KS lawyers kkos lawyers.com to learn more. All right, well, let's get into it, though. Let's get into when should you call your lawyer? And Mark and I, we're just going to go, you know, tag team in and out here. But we're also talking about when do you not call your lawyer.

Yeah.

You know, believe.

Yeah. Believe it or not, you have two lawyers here telling you you can do this on your own call. You don't call the lawyer. Yeah. Which if I don't think you'll ever hear a divorce lawyer tell you that, they're like, oh, no, give me a call. Let me hit your retainer.

You definitely need to get divorced.

Yep, yep. It's time and it's ugly. We need more money. Send it. Yeah.

Like the bankruptcy lawyer that you called, it's like, you need to file bankruptcy. Yeah, yeah, that's what they said.

Yeah. So let. But no, we're going to go back and forth and everybody here, this is important. We really debated should we title this when to call your lawyer as a business owner. But then we realized again, there's so many different types of lawyers and different instances where you could or should, shouldn't. Yeah. Could or shouldn't. Or maybe should or whatever, call your lawyer and. Okay, so let's get into it, and we're going to bounce around whether it's law or not. I think this is going to be really, really helpful for many of you because it's a big expense. Hiring a lawyer can be expensive. And I hate to tell you, there's some dirty, rotten scoundrels out there that are going to rip you off. Just like you might have a bad contractor, a bad electrician, a bad plumber. You can have a bad lawyer and you need. And so we're going to try to give some good advice here, too, of what to ask and how much to pay. And we might piss off some lawyers in the process here. But you know what? We care about you, the Main street business owner. That's what we're about. So, Matt, give us your first instance. When would you call a lawyer or not?

All right, first one here, you might not expect this one, but every business has typically a standard contract for their provision of services or goods. Whether you're selling a good or a service, you're going to have a standard contract that says, here's what I provide, here's what you pay me, and here's the terms of how we work together. You should have your lawyer look at that standard contract and provision of services. Now you might modify that for particular customers or a product or service you're providing, but kind of your standard template that's used every day in your business that is relied upon for you to get paid or not. You should have a lawyer involved in making sure that it's tight for you, that it protects you. Because let's be honest, most of your customers are just gonna sign whatever agreement you send. So make sure it's got the terms in there that outline how you really want to operate, how you want to collect fees and how your business runs. So have that reviewed by a lawyer.

I love it. And again, on each one of these, maybe we'll add a couple tips that'll be very, very helpful. I cannot emphasize enough using the DocuSign system and I know there's so many different companies out there that support digital signatures, but I just talking to a couple business owners at this conference I'm at and they're like, well, I do this for web. You know, I think let's say they're a web based business, they're going to do website design, they're going to do hosting, they're going to do this or do this. I said, well, how many services do you really provide? What's your service mix? And for those that are doing products, what's your product mix? And I say, give it to me. And so many business owners are like, well, we do all sorts of no, give me your top five services. What are the price points? What do you provide? When do you get paid? And when you ask a bit. And many of you listening are like, I don't know if I can do that. We challenge you to do that. And then for each one of those five have a contract that is specific to that service. Typically again, if you're an electrician, remodel, you know, doing something, you might have a different type of contract based on the type of remodel or new build. Send it out via DocuSign, make sure you've got whatever payment you're going to take up front, progress payments along the way, how you get paid on the way out, do you have collection fees, mediation provisions, whatever? So this is so important that you're not only having a good contract but you're getting it signed properly.

Yeah, love that. That's such a, make it easy for your customers to. Because this is, you know, the contract and like sometimes is also like the time they commit to hiring you. So if you make it a pain in the butt, oh, print this out, sign it, mail it, fax it, scan it, email it back to me. You just gave me a job, let me docusign the thing or E sign it in some E sign fashion. Right. I mean people are buying and selling million dollar houses on E sign. I mean we're doing these for all of our IRA accounts at directed IRA and our entities at kqs. Lawyers like, this is a easy process that you can incorporate. Some people like, but Matt, it costs me a dollar every time I do it. How much time did that save you and how much more likely is your customer able to get it back to you?

Yeah, dollar well spent. Yeah. Now, oh gosh, there's so much we could talk about on this. I'm just going to say this quickly too. We got to move. But on this note, people don't go to the lawyer and say, create a service contract for me. They could charge you 1,000, 2, 3, $4,000. Some lawyer that's got not a lot of work on their plate, they're going to bill the hell out of you. What you take is you create first. For those of you that are starting from scratch, create the contract that you go out, secret shop, go out and just find a contract that a person's using that you would hire that's in your same industry. Take it, drop it into word, play with it. Then here's what you do. Very important. Have your lawyer review it, say you got one hour, look at it, talk to me about it. What am I missing? So you should know that contract better than your lawyer. But don't tell them to create one for you. You show up with, please review this.

Yeah, I'll put one caveat. I think it's good for you to put your own time into, you know, getting a contract for you. Let me just add a couple things in there. And I got a little caveat on this. I've never reviewed a contract within an hour that's worth. That's a very good review. I'll just be honest. If you give me an hour, I can get into it and I might be able to point out some things. But the critical part about it is a conversation about the contract. Like if you give me even, let's say, okay, sure, I could review a 5, 10 page contract in an hour. But I'm just contained in what's in the document. I don't know what you've discussed, how you actually operate. Is this in here conflict with actually what? The emails you send and your marketing, I don't know. So unless I have the full context of what you Do. It's not as good of a review. So I like to have a conversation with the lawyer about the contract. Here's the service I provide. Here's how we do it. Here's the steps in our process. Here's how we collect payment. Here's some of the problems we had. That's a good conversation to have with your lawyer. That way they have some context as they get in the contract. And like. Well, you didn't say this in here. We should probably add in some terms on that. Oh, this seems to conflict with actually what you really do because you cut and pasted some other competitor's contract. So I do like a little bit of help your give your lawyer context for what you actually do. That'll help them add in the stuff that they need. But again, you don't need 10 hours. But one hour might be cutting it close.

Yeah, let me defend myself. I'm going to say that's the contract review is one hour, but you might spend a couple hours with your lawyer on the front and the back crafting the right type of structure for collecting payment. A lot of a good lawyer is going to go, oh, my gosh. Here's what you don't know. You need to make sure this and make sure that and don't forget DocuSign and make sure this and when you collect and if there's change orders and blah, blah, blah. So, no, I'm just saying, saying. And here's probably the best takeaway. I mean, you can spend. Your attorney might need more hours and they'll tell you that. I'm just saying give your attorney a budget. Say, I need an hour with you. I want to talk about my contracts. Here's my service mix or product mix. Can you go review the contract? How much time do you need? Oh, you need two hours. Fine. Then let's get back on the phone, follow up, go through it and be a part of the process. You need to know that contract better than your attorney and that your attorneys are to explain it to you more than write it for you. That's really what the lawyer's about. Yeah. All right.

Okay.

Okay. Next. I'll let you choose the next one. I already. Or should I? Is it my turn?

That was mine, so.

All right, I'll throw one out. Okay, I'm going to. We're going to be all over here, and I think this is good. By the way, our law firm, we're great at contracts. We got 14 lawyers that are business tax lawyers and they're going to look at Tax issues, too. So that is one area that we could be of service. Our links are in the description. Check us out. Okay, I'm going to talk about bankruptcy and I. You may want to call us initially. But let me say this. If you're in debt and things are tough, and for those of you listening, I know there's, there are, there's going to be people listening that are really at a breaking point. And I've been there in my life. Matt and I have had enough of life experience that we've lived day to day, if not month to month. It can be really tough. So our heart goes out to you. So if you feel like you're overwhelmed financially, bankruptcy is not a bad thing. Sometimes hitting reset, there's chapter seven, there's 11, there's 13. Is it your business? Is it you? Blah, blah, blah. There's all these issues. But let me just say this. If you call a bankruptcy attorney, what do you think they're going to recommend? Bankruptcy. Now, there is a caveat. If you call a bankruptcy attorney and go, hey, I don't know if I'm going to claim bankruptcy, but I don't want free advice. I'll pay you for a half hour, an hour. I need to know my options. Would that be fair? I don't want you to just recommend bankruptcy, but I want to pay for a half hour to an hour to look at my options. I think you've got a pretty good shot at getting some decent advice. But don't call in and just say, should I claim bankruptcy? Oh, we got a free consult for you. Yeah, they're going to sell you bankruptcy on a free consult, people. So, but, and this is where you might want to start with your business attorney. You may say, I'm really struggling here. Should I call a bankruptcy attorney? And we're going to help guide you through that. I don't know where you're going.

Well, I think when you're in that, particularly for those that have a business where this is the. The debt burden has came from the business itself or liabilities from the business. This is where a good business lawyer is very valuable. And planning on the front is valuable because you might be able to look at it and say, don't worry about bankruptcy. It's all contained in this business. All the liabilities are over here. You don't need bankruptcy. Let's just let that entity die. Or you're gonna shut that business down. They can come after the business for its assets. But we're closing out. It doesn't have Anything, let's start something new. Your next venture is over here at a new entity. So sometimes that can help. But also maybe you need to renegotiate. There's other options, of course, before bankruptcy, but a good holistic approach. And if you've used a law firm in the process with your business that kind of knows you, that helps set it up, they can be a good resource for answering some of these questions. So let me hit the next one, which I think is one a lot of people do actually use a lawyer for that are smart is your business entity structure. This is such a foundational piece of how your business is going to operate. It's going to govern so many issues in the future, from how you're taxed to how your assets are protected to if you do have bankruptcy, if this is going to affect you personally, or is it just the business at risk? So many issues come into play here. So contact a lawyer that's savvy in business and in tax and in asset protection. And these things that are the reasons you use an entity, they're going to help you get the right structure that is good for today, but also if you look at your business and how you're going to grow in the future. I remember a client just a couple weeks ago that had got set up totally wrong, totally painful to restructure them. They were set up in frickin Nevada because some bozo told them to set up in Nevada even though they're an Arizona business doing business in Arizona. But it takes a big amount of work to restructure, but also in a training look at. All right, where are you going next? What's your next thing? So understand the pieces that you're going to be adding on in the next phase of your expansion.

I love it and I know there's gurus out there and if you're listening to this podcast, you probably consume other podcasts that are business oriented. And someone's going to say you can just set up an LLC here and they may even have an affiliate link saying go here and just set up your llc. But it's more than that. Do you have subsidiaries? Do you have partners? Do you have rental property and business operations? Are you married? Are you single? Do you have a trust? And I'm not. I mean I know it's self serving, this is a service that we provide again nationwide setting up entities, but this is one where if you're not on your 10th entity and have had 10 years of experience and know your trifecta and your structure, getting that trifecta done where we build a diagram of. Here's your next three years, here's why you, you're doing this and we're talking maybe a thousand bucks, maybe 1,000 to $1,500 to get a really comprehensive look. Call our office. We're on it. We can help with. They'll give you different quotes of options, but I think it's important to not just go to a doc prep service and okay, next I'm going to bring up the accident with a rental property. The majority of our clients are savvy enough to buy rentals. They might be in a private equity scenario where they're limited partner in a minion on a multi unit deal. But a lot of our clients own one off single family homes, duplexes this and that, and especially in the Airbnb space. But I'm gonna say this, if there's an accident on your property, your first call is not your lawyer, it is your insurance agent. And all of you should have a really good. Now this is my take, Matt, I mean anxious for you, but you want to call your insurance agent right out of the gate and go, okay, I got a property. We've talked. You know, I'm gonna step back. You better have already got a good relationship with your insurance agent and they know you have a rental property. And this is not some geico. I'm trying to get the cheapest insurance possible on the planet. If you own rental property, you can be bundling your insurance on your rental properties, getting a better commercial type policy. It's a necessary evil. Don't think you can go to insurance.com and get the cheapest insurance and it's going to protect you. Who knows what could happen at one of your properties. But anyway, call your insurance agent, say we've had a claim, then call your lawyer who helped you set up the LLC and go, hey, is my company maintenance in order? Is my entity properly structured? Am I going to be okay? What should I do? Get a little one hour consult, prepare for the storm that might come. You've got your insurance agent who's going to hire their lawyers inside the insurance company for you. But it doesn't mean they're going to be at your beck and call. Anyway, that's, that's my take. Let them at least know what's going on.

Yeah, yeah, love it. All right, let me jump to the next one. I'm going to say, when you're buying or selling a business, when you are buying or selling a business, not only is there A lot of strategy and negotiation that could be at play. There's also documents that are going to be done that are really important to you. Buying the business and getting the legal right and all the things you think you're getting when you're paying money for it, or maybe you're negotiating some seller financing as part of it. There's gonna be a note and some documents. Maybe there's some liens or some, you know, who knows? All these deals are different if you're on the selling end too. There's all these tax issues and things that need to be considered in addition to making sure the documents are done right so you actually get fricking paid. So definitely include a lawyer when you're buying or selling a business. We've helped hundreds if not thousands of clients in the buying and selling process of a business. From small little businesses to multimillion dollar businesses. So include your lawyer in those conversations.

And I'm going to add to that before you even go talk to your buyer or your seller because you might need to sign an NDA. That's a non disclosure agreement. We build them very affordably, give you a checklist of things to start gathering during the letter of intent. See, there's it's a sale or a purchase of a business is a courtship. And it starts with, hey, I'm going to show you some of my stuff. We need to keep that private. Number two, here's kind of my intent, here's what I want to do with you. Let's make sure we're even on the same page.

The letter of intent is like the engagement ring, you know.

Oh yes.

It hasn't been a ceremony yet, but you know, there's a little commitment here. We're saying what we want, what we like.

That's the loi. I like that. Then you know, you're going to have this engagement period where you do due diligence. You meet the family, you meet the kids. Maybe that's right.

You inspect their financials.

Where are all the bodies buried? What's really going on here? Can we really look at each other's bank accounts? And so you start kind of. But that's what happens at a courtship. To buy or sell a business is there's this disclosure period and it's called due diligence. And this could be well before there's a signed contract. Your lawyer can guide you through that. So love that. Make sure that's something we help clients with. I'll throw that up.

Yep.

Okay, next we know it's we're going to talk about. I'm going to try to think of every possible reason here. We'll get to even immigration. But divorce. If you're in a rocky relationship and you could foresee a problem, the sooner you get a consult with a divorce lawyer. You're saying I might get divorced? Not sure I want to pay you for an hour. Tell me the things I should be thinking about if I make that choice. And the rules can vary so much from state to state. You may think you know what the process is and the rules in your state, but you could be very mistaken. And do you have residency in another state? Are you moving soon? What's going on in your history and when do you file for divorce and how do you file? So kind of think about that and don't think you're a bad person for having that conversation. You're just, you're, you're being, you're being safe. And on that note, don't go try and hide stuff. It'll bite you in the butt. Be open, be honest. You know, I don't care. Especially if there's kids involved. You want to make sure that you're not, because you're. It'll come out. It will. The judges in a divorce, it's a court of equity. Their job is to look for that crap. We don't even help clients hide stuff because it doesn't work. It doesn't work. You're going to get caught. But talk to the divorce lawyer.

Yeah. And I'll say there too is, you know, having a good partnership agreement for those that have a business partner, having a buy sell agreement, that's something that you should consider. And what you would engage a lawyer for when you have a partner, as the buy sell agreement could include a lot of things that says, hey, if one of these things happens, the other business partner or business partners get to take over the business. And the person that has some event that happens here, they just get bought out, basically, or their estate. And these things that could happen are you die.

Okay?

Death. The four Ds, really, you get divorced, you want to just depart, you want to just get out or you have a disability. And so we want to make sure those four Ds are handled in a buy sell agreement when you have partners. Now, if you just have a brand new business that's not worth anything yet, don't stress about it now. But once that business is making income and is built, this is kind of a time where you're like, we need to tighten this up. There's some value to this business. Let's get a buy sell agreement in place between us.

Now, the only thing I'll maybe disagree with you on that is that a lot of times when you're starting a business with someone, that's when all the dreams are, oh, we're going to make so much money. Da, da, da. And then. And then later when you start making money and you go, well, let's go to a buy sell agreement. They're like, well, that's not how I remembered our relationship. Or that wasn't the plan I had. Well, what the hell? So sometimes, depending on the future expectations you might have for your business. Yeah. You may not want to wait until there's money on the table to have that conversation. That's my only thought there. But I like how Matt went from divorce to buy sell. Because when you have a partner, that's a marriage in a business scenario. And guess what? It's harder to get out of a partnership than it is a marriage. There are divorce lawyers, divorce court, family lawyers, a partner, you're just going to civil litigation. And it can be. There's not a system for that. Is structured as divorce. So plan in advance of what you want your partnership to look like. Yep. Okay, your turn. Like, oh, no, you said visit by sell. Okay, I'm gonna go over here.

I've got plenty over here still. So you tell me when you're, you know.

Okay.

Okay.

I got a big list too. I'm going to go with employment lawyer. If you own a business and we have so many of our followers that do, if you have an employee and oh my gosh, you could. Now a good business lawyer should be able to help you with an employee handbook. We're not a big fan of employment contracts. We like letters of understanding and employment at will. When you start signing employment contracts, you're going to. It can be a. A grab bag, especially state. State. But I will say this. If you have employees, you should have a business lawyer that can help you deal with employment issues. But if you have an employee that's made a claim or is upset about maybe being terminated, improperly, Harassment. We had. We've had clients that come and go. I had a manager or a partner that made advances on an employee, and this employee is. Got a complaint. That's not a business lawyer. You know, it's going to be a very unique situation because federal law and state law can come in and trump the process. I don't know. You do not want to mess around with that. Get a consult right Away. Yep.

All right, now here's a big one. Tax planning. This is one. Some people don't think of the lawyer or the law firm necessarily. They think the CPA or the accountant. Well, a good tax lawyer, which is what our law firm is, you know, you don't want to go to your brother in law or your sister in law, that's like a criminal defense lawyer or does family law to ask your tax questions. Okay, they don't know anything. Okay. Just like you don't want to go to us for. If you got, you know, you get arrested and you get one call, don't blow that call on us. We can't help. All right? But use that call, you know, for your tax planning, Give us a call or a tax lawyer that, that's what they do. So the number one expense business owners have that are successful is taxes. If you are making money in your business, you will be paying taxes. Now minimizing that is going to be a huge benefit to you and what you actually get to take home. So a good tax lawyer can help you maximize what you take home, minimize the taxes you're sending to the IRS or the state. So getting a tax lawyer involved is critical and one that can understand your business and help with your structuring even better.

Love it. Now, Matt alluded to the next one, which you knew was coming, folks, and that is. And by the way, a tax lawyer should be taking a more comprehensive look and integrating asset protection, privacy, estate planning and tax. They're all related. And what happens is a lot of people get frustrated because they go to their accountant, CPA enrolled agent, and say, hey, I want to do tax planning, but that advisor. And we train our certified tax advisors to identify issues and recommend calling a lawyer. Thank heavens we do that. But not a lot of tax advisors know that. And so they just avoid the conversation. They don't talk about company maintenance, they don't talk about structure, they don't talk about probate. And because it's a blind spot for them and they don't want to be liable for that. So at least doing a once a year review with a tax lawyer just makes sense if you're, if you're building wealth and building a business, you've got equity in your home, you're building retirement. Our tax lawyers, once a year, even once every two years, get a review and enhance what you're doing with your insurance agents and your accountants. Sorry I had to add to that. Matt, if I could. Okay. Criminal. Oof. Criminal. Now, some of you may go, well, yeah. If I get arrested, I'm going to call a criminal lawyer or I'm going to call my business lawyer. I think of freaking Lincoln Lawyer, which is awesome. And Matthew McConaughey is. This is John Grisham book, Lincoln Lawyer.

No, no, it's not John Grisham. It's Michael Conley.

That's right. Michael, I'm scared.

Yeah. Because I got you a signed copy of that book by the author Michael Connolly.

Yes, you did. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I'm embarrassed. Michael Connelly signed my copy too. Embarrassed. Anyway. But the movie with Matthew McConaughey is so good. But there's business lawyers involved in that show. And it was kind of interesting to see that the business lawyer called Matthew McConaughey into the mix because he knew there needed to be a criminal lawyer. But here's my biggest take that I have on this, and I've got two. Number one, for parents out there. If your kid gets in trouble, you immediately tell him, shut up. And then you call all of your network and go, who knows a good criminal lawyer? Now, some of you may have a criminal lawyer in your quote, unquote contact list, because you've got a child that you just know you're gonna have to make that call someday. Heaven forbid. I am so sorry for some of you out there, you're like, yeah, we've got that issue.

I mean, I've got one. It's just by chance I ride bikes with him. But,

yeah. And I know Matt's got some good comments on this. I'll keep this brief. But number one, for those of you that are parents of teenagers, there's gonna be a day where it could be a car accident, could be drunk driving, it could be something in their possession. They could be at a party. Who knows? Just know that you're not going to want to cut corners in this area. It could affect a kid's life forever on this earth. Number two, and I'm just going to be blunt there, too, your child could be accused of sexual something, you know, with someone under age 18 or younger, or there's an accusation. And just an accusation can be. Can create a ripple effect or a domino effect of a lot of bad stuff. And a criminal lawyer can cut that short. They know who to call and what to say. Okay. Number two, everybody should watch at least three episodes of Dateline. It blows my mind how many people that are related to some sort of crime. These cops are amazing. They just get them into that little room and they're like. And it's on camera. I mean, this is on camera on Dateline. You see the actual footage and you're like, just. Do you know the four words? Can I have a lawyer? I want a lawyer. Whatever. Just lawyer, lawyer. One word. Lawyer. Shut the hell up. I mean, it is just crazy. And so I'm just saying if you're ever, ever, ever in a police interview situation for anything for your child, for a spouse, for a family member, heaven forbid, something that you might have done or a car accident, just say lawyer and call a criminal lawyer.

I can't say that I love.

There's.

Edward Bennett is a criminal defense lawyer, famous criminal defense lawyer. And he had this plaque on his wall with a fish on it that had been hooked, you know, and there's this, like, clack of it on its wall. There's little words underneath that says, I wouldn't be here either if I kept my mouth shut.

Oh, my gosh.

So there you go. But, you know, I think, you know, I was a prosecutor for a year where I was going to court, sending people to jail in prison. And I loved the job, actually. It was a fun job. It was like Law and Order. But, you know, you do learn something about, you know, people, and it's, you know, it can happen. People get into something or your family members. And that is true. It might seem like. I think some people think, well, the police are here to help me. Well, they are in many instances. But if they think you're a criminal, they ain't there to help you. They're not on your side. So shut the heck up and get a lawyer. And this is one lawyer. I will say, when you're thinking about lawyers, you need the criminal defense lawyer, that this is all they do. You don't want the lawyer that does immigration, that does personal injury, that does criminal defense, that does divorces, that does anything that walks in the door, okay? Like you need the guy or gal that this is all they do, okay? This is a specialty because we're not just talking about dollars and cents. We're talking about your freedom. So be careful there.

Yeah. And I've got to add one last word because I just know many of you out there will think, well, I have nothing to hide. That's going to be your thought. And you may not, but if you say something that implies something, the cops don't know that they have to chase every lead down.

And here's the other thing. Or you could be like Martha Stewart. You know, they thought she was involved in all this unfair stock trading and insider trading. They could never get her on that. But what did they get her on? Like obstruction of justice for kind of like lying and stuff and thinking, oh, I'll just talk around it again. Another reason why. Shut your mouth. Remember the fish on the wall in the colonel defense lawyer's office? Who wouldn't be there either?

I love it. Okay, so I did criminal. What's your next one?

All right, let's talk about you real estate investors. And I know we've hit this a couple of instances, but your lawyer should be there on your real estate investing. And let me just hit a couple things. We talked about the business entity structure. That's something that's a little unique from your operating businesses. Okay. So you want to make sure your business lawyer's involved with that. Also. I just talked about the contract, but I'm just going to be specific to real estate investors. The lease. Okay. Your attorney should be involved in lease. Not every lease. You don't need them for every lease. Maybe you got big commercial buildings or stuff like that. But the standard lease you're going to use, you know, 10, 20 times over, that should be reviewed by the lawyer, whether it's short term or long term. Have your lawyer involved in that. And also you might need them in sense of eviction situations. But a lot of times that's going to be a specific eviction lawyer where you're going to need an attorney. Not your typical business real estate transactional lawyer. You need the attorney that really does the eviction stuff all day.

Yeah. Let's divide that into two. I really like where you went with that, Matt, because one is you've got your real estate attorney that's helping you close, come up with unique offers, maybe seller carrybacks, promissory notes, hard money. You're maybe doing aud. Right, sorry, Accessory. No. What?

Adu.

Adu, yes. Yeah. Accessory. Yep. You're expanding your property and you need. They're called ADUs in California, accessory dwelling unit. You might have be bringing in a tenant and don't know about the zoning laws. Do you have to have handicap access? I mean, so that's all the planning with real estate. That's a good real estate lawyer. Development issues. But having an eviction lawyer, they're a machine. They're just a machine. That's all they do. You want an eviction lawyer now, many of you are like, well, I have a property manager, they have one on auto dial. Fine, that's good. But you need to then understand what is my lease agreement? When do we call the eviction lawyer? How do I get my money? And for those of you that don't have property management in place, that's you. You gotta have that phone number. And you should call them now. Because here's the thing. Once you need to evict someone, it might be too late to call the eviction lawyer. They were like, well, did you give notice 15 days ago? Did you give notice 30 days ago? Did you put something on the door? No. Well, we're starting over, you dumbass. Make sure you. Sorry, kids, but this is. So you want to have your eviction lawyer tell you when anyone doesn't pay you, here's the steps you take. So very different call.

Okay. Was that all right? Was that your add on to mine or was that.

That was my add on. Because you had two.

I might charge you for that. That was almost a whole one in and of itself.

But, well, I just expanded on your good one. Okay, I'll start this one, and you can take it to. Across the finish line. There's an alley. Oops. Industry.

All right. Make sure it's right by the rim. So I can just throw it in.

This is easy. Some of you need an estate plan, and this is the will, the trust and all that. And you think, oh, my business lawyer could do this, or my criminal lawyer, I don't know, my real estate lawyer. Estate planning is. Is a unique area. Some you can just get by with a will, but there's a lot of coordination, privacy, asset protection, conversations that come up. Yeah, Matt, how would you finish that conversation?

I mean, you could have slammed it. You didn't need to throw it to me. But yeah, I mean, well, if you think about. For you business owners, what's the number one asset you've been building putting all your blood, sweat and tears into your business? Who's going to get that when you die? You don't want to go into probate court. Is it your spouse? Is it your kids? Is it your business partner? How is that all working? You need to have a plan for that, and that would be part of your estate plan. Now, we generally recommend a trust, and most people out there, Mark said some of you can have a will, but most people, if you have assets, whether it's a home, a business, you need a trust. That's not that expensive. You can do this for less than 2,000 bucks, or you have a trust, you have all the powers of attorney, you have the will. If you have kids, of course the will, you could appoint guardians. So everybody really needs an estate plan, but particularly you business owners. Because what's going to happen to your business or even your rental properties is laid out in your estate plan. And your family members are not going to have to go to court to a probate court to get a judge to approve it, where it's all public and everyone gets to see what it's in the court records. So use the estate plan. It's a great way and an affordable way where it's kind of like one and done, too. It's like you set it up, you get it done, you get your assets in it. It goes in the drawer. You don't pay fees unless you're changing stuff. So it can be pretty inexpensive, but very valuable later on in life. Because I got news for you. You will die one day.

Yeah. I always got teased when I'd say, now, if you're going to die, you need an estate plan. They're like, no, what planet are you on now? This is one of our.

I hate that, actually, because it's like, oh, I am going to die. Oh, that's me.

Yeah. One service I know you're all going to need, but this is okay. So as an aside, and hopefully, many of our listeners over the years have built a lot of trust and faith in us. Our attorneys are fantastic. We're not saying call the accounting firm or not call the trust company. Our boutique law firm is helping people set up their businesses, coordinate their estate plan, integrate asset protection, look at your tax plan, maybe add some privacy in. And if you need some contract help, maybe you're going to buy a business. We're transactional lawyers with a tax law asset protection twist. That's kind of our boutique. We love real estate. We can help clients all around the country. These other areas we can identify and go, you need a different lawyer. But anyway, on the estate plan. That's right. That's in our wheelhouse. Okay, next one. I got a couple more still.

Okay. All right. A trademark or maybe even a patent. So sometimes intellectual property is time when you may need to call your business lawyer. Now, a trademark is basically you're protecting your name or a slogan used in the business. Okay, so a trademark is something that no one can use that name or no one can use that slogan. You're locking that down nationwide across the whole US by getting a federal trademark. Now, we do these at our law firm. Many business law firms will do trademarks. On the other side of this, though, is a patent that is typically not a business or tax lawyer, you know, that's involved there. A patent is more of an Engineering type lawyer that's getting into the design, the unique thing of this that makes it patentable. And so you will get typically a more specialist in terms of a patent lawyer. Now, not all the lawyers in our firm do trademarks, but there are a couple that do amongst our 14 that are helping clients day to day. So even within our firm, we do have some small specialties, but trademarks will be one of them. And now some of your businesses don't need it. You're buying a rental property and you've got an LLC for that. You don't need a trademark for that name. The name's on a deed and on some contracts. But if you're like, no, I'm building a brand, I've got a. A nationwide focus, what I'm trying to do, or your business is already getting there, you definitely should look at getting a trademark.

And I will say for all of you out there that have an idea and you're trying to invent something, a process, So many different things. Intellectual property lawyers, IP lawyers, are very, very unique. And they can be expensive. And you might look at stages of a patent, like a provisional patent or whatever. Okay, the next thing I'm going to go to is sec. SEC Lawyer, which stands for securities and Exchange Commission.

I thought that was the Southeastern Conference. I'm like, college football season's already passed. Why are we talking about the sec?

Yeah, well, March Madness is coming up.

Okay. They're not any good in basketball, though.

No, no, of course not. Sorry. Our SEC fans out there, you're no longer a listener. Want to say thank you for paying attention and thank you to my partner for alienating you. Okay, so if you're raising money now, we've taught a lot of. We've got great podcasts on this. We have an SEC attorney in our office that specializes in some niches of raising money, not all areas. And so we know when to identify Jerem's support for any of you. But if you're trying to do crowdfunding, raise a million dollars, you want investors, which we call a dirty word, the I word, investor. Because you gotta be careful. It's not a bad thing. It's a dirty word, meaning there's a lot of things that come with that. And if you call someone an investor, but don't treat them properly as an investor and you lose their money, you're going to jail. Now you're calling the criminal lawyer. And so SEC lawyers have a Rolodex of criminal lawyers because of people that screwed up. So make sure if you're trying to raise money. You start with your business lawyer and then get in with your SEC person.

Like it so much in that area. And we do have prior podcasts on basically raising money and treating people either as a lender, an investor, or a partner.

Okay.

And there's three different versions of people who may give you money for a business or a real estate deal. How is that going to be taxed? You need to know that. Also, how do I treat them from a legal standpoint to protect me and the investor? So we go over that in a totally separate podcast episode. Check that out on raising capital. Okay, I got. We've got time for maybe one more each.

You know what, I have two, but I think you're going to take one of them, so go ahead.

Okay. I want to talk about asset protection planning.

Okay. No, go ahead.

All right, I'm on it. All right.

Okay.

Asset protection planning. So, and we just did a podcast episode a couple weeks ago on, like, basic asset protection planning. But for those of you that are starting to build wealth, you've got more things to protect. Think of more things that need to go in the safe, you know, more things you need to build a fortress around so people don't come get it. Asset protection planning becomes more valuable to you. And so understanding how your assets are protected from your real estate to your business, to your personal trading or investment accounts, to your retirement accounts, you know, is really important. And it becomes much more valuable to you the more assets you have. So for many of you, asset protection planning should be a key part where you should be involving your lawyer. Don't try to hack that out on your own. It could be a very unique type of planning that's state specific, that's specific to the type of business you have, the risks you have, what type of plan and barriers are we going to try and put in place? So asset protection planning, that's an area where you should be thinking about your business lawyer, getting them involved, because let's be honest, sometimes your business is the number one place of where your risks are of any liability. And making sure your other assets are protected and isolated from that is really important.

Okay. And it is true that when you're working with your real estate lawyer or your business planning lawyer, they're going to dabble and talk about definitely some basic asset protection. I just want to forewarn some of you that there's those houses out there, these lawyers that are going to sell advanced asset protection and try to talk about irrevocable trusts, maybe offshore or domestic asset protection trusts, which we actually like, but they can be charging 5, 10, $20,000 for a quote unquote asset protection plan. Please be cautious of that. I'm not saying that you may not need some of those things and that's not a fair price, but you better get a second or third opinion before you just get sold. Oh, I need that. I just was talking with clients just a couple months ago that we got pitched a $35,000 business structuring tax asset protection thing. And I was like, I haven't charged a client that ever. And again. Holy hell. Okay, so the other one I was going to throw out, speaking of your assets, prenup. Now, this is back to the divorce lawyer. But for any of you that are getting married, you may want to contemplate this. And a business lawyer can definitely help with a prenup. They're not a difficult document. They can be a difficult conversation. But once you decide if you're going to go down that route, you're going to want to call your lawyer for that you do not want.

You.

In fact, you cannot knock out a prenup and have it be valid. You can't prepare one and say, oh, spouse to be signed here. Nope. Can't sit down on Google at night and knock it out together.

Yeah.

Yep.

All right. Love the. Love the prenup. There's a number of these things I just want to note that kind of cross into this personal business. And where sometimes it's a different type of lawyer, but it affects your business. And that could be the prenup where maybe you do have a family lawyer or a business lawyer that gets in that area enough where they feel comfortable. Your estate plan, of course, this is governing your personal assets. But for those of us business owners, business is our most biggest asset in many instances. Divorce and stuff like this. There's a lot of stuff that crosses over between personal and business. And I think those are the ones where it's sometimes the trickiest to find the right lawyer to help you. I'll be honest. But start with your business lawyer, if you have one, because they're going to be able to know, I got this or this isn't in my wheelhouse.

Yeah, I like it. Okay, last one I have just. We can really go, there's probably 50 other types of lawyers out there we're not talking about, but those are going to be more rare. But I will say immigration. This is one where if you do have family members that are trying to immigrate to the United States, or maybe you're looking at getting a passport in another country or you're doing business in another country. And I'm just going to bring up. This is a closely related. We have a lot of clients that buy rental property in Cabo or Costa Rica or wherever. And so if you're going to buy rental property out of the United States, you're going to need that foreign lawyer. Whatever they barrister, whatever they're going to call them in that country, make sure you retain one in that country. Don't rely on someone in the US to tell you what the law is in Nicaragua. For you people that fly planes south and make quick pick stops and then fly back.

Yeah, we're importer exporters.

Yeah, importer exporters. Bandalay Industries now. But again, immigration is one where you want to be ahead of the curve if you're trying to. And many of you that are already in the immigration process, you're like, mark, you're an idiot, of course. But I just want to bring that up, that the sooner the better. You talk to an immigration lawyer and be careful what you spend there. Again, a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing charging excessive fees for promises of immigration status. And you got to be careful. Get second and third opinions there.

All right, what else?

What about Saul?

Oh, when you call Saul. Yeah, I mean, when you only got one call, that's when you call Saul. Yeah. That's when you've been cuffed and stuffed and, you know, wearing orange. I got a final little comment that I wanted to make too, because I feel like we kind of like, you know, some of you are maybe like, man, I gotta use my lawyer for a lot of stuff. Hey, that's what this podcast is all about is we're trying to teach you enough. So there's a lot of areas where you don't even need to call your lawyer. Whether it's any lawyer you use or us. There's a lot of stuff you can solve on your own. And know I know the answer to this. I don't need the lawyer. Okay. But we also don't want you to get overdo it where you're like, you know, a little bit, and you mess it up. So be careful finding that balance. But also know we have tons of resources. If you're like, ooh, I want to raise money before you go have the conversation with the lawyer, maybe listen to the podcast episode on raising money. If I go, ooh, I really need to restructure my business, go listen to the podcast episode where you go into an hour for it and you'll be able to get your head around it for your own situation. It'll make a much more efficient save you cost and time when you actually get into it with your lawyer.

Oh, I love it, Matt. And my final comment will piggyback that. And I just want to use the analogy of webnb. You know, if you're hurting and you're like, oh, I'm sick or I did this or pulled that muscle or why does this, why do I feel this way when I eat Mexican food with, you know, diablo hot sauce drenched yet maybe there's a reason why you take Priglosac after that. But just throwing that out now. But seriously, we all know we can go online to try to figure out maybe what's wrong with our health, but then we don't play doctor. But here's what it does help you do. Go to the doctor and ask the right questions or go to the right type of doctor. So it's great. Get out there on Google, listen to our podcast, read the blog articles, go out and do your research on the legal. But then that'll help you choose the right lawyer or ask the right questions or set the right budget or not get taken advantage of. It's not so you can play lawyer or play doctor. I go to Home Depot just to do repairs. I do not go to Home Depot so I can, you know, do a plumbing remodel of my house that I call a plumber for that. But I at least learn and know what I'm going to be asking for when I talk to the plumber. Be careful. Yeah.

Love it. Well, thanks everyone. I hope you enjoyed this masonry business podcast. I did. I thought it's fun to actually talk about some of these services and when people need a lawyer. Let us know if you need our help at KQS Lawyers. Like Mark said, we have an amazing team, over 50 legal professionals on our team helping clients across the country. And if it's not us, just get to the right professional. We're cool. There's other great lawyers out there that can help you. But give us a call if you need help though. And please, if you're still listening to the show, give us a five star review, thumbs up, whatever it is, and however you're listening to it, subscribe. It really helps other people find the show and it makes Mark and I feel good.

I love it. Thanks everyone. We'll see you next week.