243. Leading The Change in The Green Industry - Mark Sedgley

Hey everyone. Welcome back to Contractor Evolution, the podcast by Breakthrough Academy. What does it take to lead lasting change not just inside your business, but across even an entire industry? Today's guest is Mark Sedgley, CEO of lmn, Greenius and Single Ops. These are three of the biggest names in landscaping software and are now coming together to be one brand Granum. Mark's story from entrepreneur to CEO offers us a masterclass in leadership, accountability and building companies that put people first. In today's episode, we're going to be talking about his vision for Granum and what he sees for the future of the entire green industry. So let's get into it with Mark Sedgley. You're listening to Contractor Evolution, the podcast by Breakthrough Academy where we systemize contracting businesses for growth. Keep listening to learn how the world's top contractors scale their companies, build killer teams and make more while working lessons. Mark Sedley, welcome to the show, my friend.

Awesome to be with you. Thanks so much, Danny. I'm honored and stoked to spend some time with you today.

We got a lot to get into. I'm so curious actually to talk to you about a lot of things, but one of the things is just your journey in the green industry, what you've been doing all these years and the things you've learned because especially for entrepreneurs, I think a lot of us are used to running our business and having a small business and you've made that transition over the years to being the CEO of what we, I guess now call Granum. But the combination of lmn, Greenius and Single Ops. So there's a big journey there and I imagine there's a few things you've learned.

Yeah, for sure, one or two.

One or two. But let's go back to the beginning. Like how did you get involved even in the green industry?

I mean, so I think it probably goes one click before the green industry, how I got involved in software, because that brought me to the green industry. But I think just like any other, you know, red blooded American kid, like I actually grew. My first job was a lawnmower and a weed whacker in the back of the trunk with a tie down, just kind of knocking on doors in the neighborhood trying to make some money. So I think that's probably one of the main, like attractions to the green industry is just everybody has kind of like this similar story like that you've either interacted with it in some way, shape or form, or you haven't, you know, personally or directly or also receive the benefit of it, so, so that was kind of like first kind of like foray into entrepreneurship, I guess I should say, which happened to have this like very distant connection to the green industry. But how I got into software was a couple of friends of mine from college had helped start a company called Member Clicks and they had launched it and we're having a very difficult time selling the software. Danny. Right. And so they gave me a call and said, hey, could you help us? My whole background of sales and marketing, that's all I've ever done. Could you help us sell, like, see if you can distribute the software? And the answer was yes. And then I went on a long run with number clicks. And that's kind of like how I went from entrepreneur because like it was just seven of us, like figuring out our way. And then I took over the company and then I got backed by private equity and investment and then we made some acquisitions and then we ended up selling that to a strategic competitor. And then from there I just kind of took on CEO gigs where I took over for founders. And so what led me to the green industry specifically in this part of my life was one of the original investors of Member Clicks is a. Was also an investor in Single Ops. And Single ops was focused more on tree care companies and, you know, delivering, you know, kind of end to end business management software for tree care companies. And they were looking to take it to the next level and the founder was looking to kind of step back and do some different things. Sean McCormick. And they gave me a call and that's, that's kind of how I came to be in the green industry. That was in 2023. And as I was looking around and thinking about ways that we could grow, we were trying to push into landscape and candidly, we weren't doing a great job of it. And so I do have a strong background in acquisitions, not by desire, but by chance and time and opportunity. And so I reached out to Mark Bradley at LMN and we started interacting with each other and we started building a relationship over time. And then he decided to take his company to market and we participated and acquired Element in Greenhouse literally a year ago in two weeks. So, and then that's how we're here today, you know, and that's how I got to the green industry.

And now you mirror Chattan.

Yeah, exactly.

I want to rewind a little bit when you sold your first organization and I don't know what you exited with, but at some level there was probably a decision to keep going, to keep driving and actually to keep driving in this. You just said it. In these CEO seats versus the entrepreneur seat, what is it that drives you? Like, what's driving you today? What's kept you moving and why in this type of position?

So two things really, really do drive me. I can't really tell you why. I've just always been wired this way, ever since I've kind of started in business. One, I love creating ripple. And what I mean by that is if I can do something and like, push something and create something, and then that gives other people opportunities, and it allows them to kind of build their businesses off of that and get more efficient, that, to me, creates ripple, it creates prosperity. The business grows. You can hire more people. People can grow their careers, the customers flourish, their businesses grow. That extends out into the ecosystem. There's something that is just, like, hardwired into me to want to try and accomplish that. That's one. Number two is I am genuinely highly motivated to serve small businesses. I am a. Yeah, like, I'm a professed lover of small businesses because I actually think, Danny, small businesses are kind of the fabric of, you know, our economic, you know, culture and society right everywhere. The vast majority of economy in North America, Canada and America is driven by small businesses.

People don't realize that. That we are actually the driving force. Everyone looks at the S&P 500 and says, oh, it's all the apples in. It's actually if you, you pound for pound, if you look at all the small businesses combined, we are the economic

force, but we're just largest contributors to local economies, like, real, like, meaningful impacts in communities. Danny. Right. Like, you know, those contractors, whether they be in the green industry or, or, or. Or elsewhere, are, Are doing all kinds of things in their local communities. Our guys are making beautiful spaces and creating backyards for people to congregate and enjoy, like bringing families and friends together or making sure that industrial spaces are safe when it snows and all kinds of things, right? And then also they're sponsoring, you know, little league teams in their communities. They're hiring in their community. They're contributing to kind of the municipal advancements and zoning laws in our communities. Like, they are the fabric of what's happening in America. Like, you know, you can talk about Meta or Google or. But like, those, those, those, you know, they're very kind of like 30,000 square feet companies. It's like, that's not what's driving the communities around, you know, the country.

Hey, guys, quick question before we continue the episode. If you could get A custom roadmap for growing your business in five minutes. Would it be worth your time? After tracking the growth of over 1,900 contracting businesses since 2015, we we've put together a five minute quiz you can go take right now that draws on a massive pool of data. You'll get instant access to a personalized report that's going to tell you which one of the four phases of contractor growth you're actually in right now, how your company stacks up in the six core areas of business compared with industry benchmarks and what to go do next, including customized resources, tools and templates you'll have access to right away. No waiting around for an email or filling out a million separate forms. The link is in the description, so go check it out. Now back to the episode.

It's good.

I still want to, I want to hit on this one other point because I had a couple podcasts earlier with guys who have exited and are kind of depressed. Have you experienced this? Have you seen this? This is just to all those who are like, one day I want to, I want to grow this and I want to sell this, and it's going to be great. I'm going to finally retire. Just any, any message of what that's like afterwards and how to contend with that. Because I do think there's a bit of an unspoken conversation there that not a lot of people talk about. It' to drive meaning.

Yeah. I mean, it's so funny, like when you're building something and you're like, sacrificing personal things in your life, like maxing out credit cards and sacrificing time with your kids and, you know, your spouse or partner. Right. It's like, in a big way, it starts to, like, become part of your life identity and DNA. Like, this is part of me. This is like who I am. And so a lot of times when people exit and experience that kind of blue or that depression, it was like that was the goal. Right. Or they thought that was the goal. Right. And so, but once that happens, there's this kind of like, feeling of like, well, now what? Who am I? What do I do? What do I stand for and what do I believe in and all that. I had a lot of time, Danny, to think about that before. Right. And also too, I think I came into it, I wasn't a founder. I was one of like a founding group. Right. That I was more of the operational guy anyways. And so I always kind of like really enjoyed that experience. Right. And so I think, you know, like, you Read all these studies, Danny, about the people that are getting into their 70s and 80s that are still working and how. How much, like, happier and more engaged and, like, longer they live. It's because I think they feel like they're contributing in some way, shape or form to meaning and value, to their life and work is very meaningful. And so I didn't have that kind of blue moment. I did have, like, second guesses about, did I sell to the right buyer? Like, did I, did I do the right thing for my company? And all the normal things that you second guess yourself as an entrepreneur and a CEO over and over again. There's a million different examples like that. But I think when folks feel that feeling and experience that it's more around like, this was the end, but it really isn't. It's just the beginning to start of something more.

So within this, there's another thing that I've acknowledged and recognized is the difference between an entrepreneur and a CEO. And you've been in both places. And I would just love you to explain a little bit of what you've noticed, the biggest differences. Because I think some of our entrepreneurs listening are turning into CEOs right now. And it's kind of a bit of a question of, like, what does that even mean for them? Right. And what. Yeah, what does that require to do a great job of?

Yeah, And I think it probably goes first from like, entrepreneur to operator, then operator to like leader, and then from leader to like, exec, like CEO. You know what I mean? And so I think there's like, some interim steps that happen along the way, and you probably make that leap. So there's folks that are listening today that are probably making that leap right now. Because before, as the entrepreneur, you had your hand in everything. Like, I was doing sales, I was making sure the ops were, like, running flawlessly. Like, I was on site to make sure every detail was followed. I was making sure that we got the bills. I was on the weekends reconciling QuickBooks. Right? Like, that's the entrepreneur, like, because I know it's going to get bigger than this, and then all of a sudden, one day it starts to get bigger than this. Right? And that moment where you become dependent on one person below you and a key, like, integral part of your business is the moment where you have to switch from kind of like entrepreneur to a certain degree. You always want that creativity and, like, vitality and, like, enthusiasm and energy that you bring to the table, but you have to switch to, okay, I have to figure out in some way, shape or form to maximize this person's ability to perform to my expectations. And that requires a, like, a click to say, like, oh, it can't be just because they should just know how to do it like I do. Right. It can't be that because you, you can only scale yourself so far. So that's when you start to become an operator. And then all of a sudden when you have multiple people that you're dependent on in each of the key, like, areas of a business now, you've probably gone to like, have I have to lead these people? And that's, that's kind of where leadership and operations start to meld. And it probably takes, I don't know, everybody's different. I was slow, like somewhere between, you know, 12 to, you know, 24 months to start to say, like, oh, there's a, there's a healthy balance between operational kind of muscle flex and leadership, you know, influence and kind of vision. Right. And then once you make that leap and the organization gets bigger, you become the kind of CEO, like, you start pushing the, you know, operation forward. You start to look for other growth opportunities that are so far outside of your previous kind of skill set and strengths. You've just evolved and you've become the chief executive officer. And I'm not even really certain what that means, Danny, to be honest, like, to be very honest with you. Yeah. And so, but I think what it really means at the end of the day is like, I tell people every, every time somebody asks, like, what, what is, like what is the main thing at your job? 95% of my job is doing this all day. That's important. That's not important. That's important. That's not important. That's important. That's not important. And keeping people focused on what's really important and removing the distractions and the impediments and the things that are not important. That's 95% of my job to do

that, to do a good job of that I can imagine and I've experienced it myself. Even there is this weird dichotomy of high level visionary, future, living in the future and then keeping your ear to the ground and being very granular because I think if you do too much of one or the other, you, those decisions actually aren't the right decisions. How do you, how do you sharpen your decision making and how do you balance those two things?

I. It's a really good question, by the way. So I think there's like two critical things for me personally. The first one is, is I always have to start with what, what, what is our vision? Right? And, and every year, every, every time I take over an organization, I integrate something called Vision Values, methods and measures. V2M2 Vision values, methods and Measures. What's the vision for the year? What are the values that it's going to take to get us there? What are you going to do? Like what is the objectives and then what are your results? Right? Vision, Value, Methods and Measures. So I always have to start with a vision and then once that vision's in place, you have a five year vision or a ten year vision, but you also have an annual vision. Once that's in place, I go and gut check it through three stakeholders. My customers, my employees and my partners. And I have to stay like super close to those people. And that means I go visit customers twice a month, right, in person. Like I go visit them in their operation and I listen to what they have to say, both about the macro economy, about what they're experiencing with my company and my product. And then I take that and I go and I sit in on operational meetings that are really key at the company. There's some really important operational meetings that we have, like the product design build meeting, which is where we talk about what's coming in the product. There's the monthly sales kickoff meeting, right? And I go sit in on those and I listen to what my employees are saying, right. What my team members are saying. And then I go and I share that in a communicatable way with my partners and my shareholders, right? And then I take all that feedback and I synthesize it to make sure that we are going the right direction. And if there's any things that I need to be aware of that could take us off course from our, our vision or I might need to augment, you know, like some of our interim goals or interim steps or the methods that we said that we were going to put in place in order to achieve our mission or vision. And so those three key stakeholders, like I have to stay very close to those three key stakeholders all the time, right? And it is non negotiable. Like I show up to customer sites, I talk to them face to face. You know, we go out, we, we throw back some beers or we drink hot tea, whatever, you know, their, their preference is, right? And then I, I, I listen to what my employees are saying and then I share that kind of strategically to get input from outside as well. And so those three, those three things are like indispensable to me to make sure that we're going the right way.

And at some level, you're, you're looking at the data, you're looking at the qualitative factors, and you're, you're making a call. Even with all of that, what is a acceptable hit rate as a CEO to make a decision that hits and is in the right direction versus is not, and there's a course correction needed. Is it 100%? Is it 90%? Is it 80?

No. Yeah, I think that's, that's a really great question. I'm trying to quickly go through an inventory of the decisions that I've made. I think probably 80, like the 80th percentile, like if you're getting, especially on the key stuff. Right. And that's why I always break it down into, like, here's the vision, here's the values, but here are the methods. These are the key things that I think we have to be very successful at. And once you get to those key things, if you can hit 8 out of 10 of those key things, you're probably going the right direction very well.

This is amazing. Good. The other thing I was thinking about is just your ethos and leadership versus, say, a different CEO's ethos and leadership. And I've seen this in many businesses. I've seen this in our business, and we talked a bit about this in our prep call too. But there are different ways to say skin a cat.

I don't know.

There's different ways to achieve the same result. What is your ethos in leadership? Why. Why does it work for you? What are some other versions of this that are just important to acknowledge?

Yeah, I'm a, I'm a very much like, equip, educate, and empower leader. Right. Like, I like to teach people like, hey, this is, this is kind of what I'm seeing strategically, that motivates me to think this could be true in the marketplace. And then I like to equip people to be successful in going after their goals, and then I like to go and empower the organization behind them. Right. And so I really depend a lot on my next level leadership to kind of go do all the stuff to make the magic happen. And then I'm in the background supporting it every step of the way. Whether that's hosting all hands meetings and empowering, you know, like energy and transfer of enthusiasm to the entire company and vision casting, whether that's equipping them with the tools that they need in order to, like, be successful in their roles and their jobs. But that's how I like to think about it, is educate, equip and empower. That's my leadership style. And it leans in heavy to like values because that's where I lead from, is our operational values.

The opposite side of this I've seen is more of a like dictatorial leadership style where it's like, follow me, I will tell you exactly what to do, how to do it, and I will maintain a high level of control. Is that good, is that bad? Is it just important to recognize.

I think the most important thing that any leader can do is just understand who they are at their core and at their DNA. I've seen and I refer to this type of leader as command and control. And I don't suggest one is better than the other. What I do suggest is to thyself be true. Right. And what I've learned in life is if you know what motivates you and you know what your operational values are, and then you tell people what motivates you and what your operational values are, then you will, by laws of physics and attraction, you will, you will attract people who respond well to that. Right. And so there are several examples of where command and controls style leadership works very, very well. The military as an example. Right. It's like you're in a highly regimented environment that has to be based on training, after training, after training and following protocols. Right. Because it's an exact high pressure, high stress environment that has life and death kind of like consequences if you don't. Right. And so for me, if you're, if you're in an environment where like, like I don't think that I could be the CEO of a large accounting firm as an example. Right. I'm too casual. I am not as oriented as I should be. I'm probably not as regimented and like buttoned up. That would be required. So that would require a different type of CEO. Right. And so I think know that to thyself be true, exude your operational values and then you'll attract the type of people who would thrive under that type of leadership. I think in general, many different styles of leadership can be successful. When styles of leadership don't work is typically when they're surrounded by people who don't jive with their style.

And here's a really interesting question. So for you to be an aspirational leader, do you need command and control leaders below you or below that? Do they need, at some point somebody's got to take command and control at some part of the organization. Or is it all just aspirational? Because that's the DNA of who you are and everybody below you leads in the same way.

So it's an awesome question. I think it's a confluence of how these operational values come together. So there's a big difference between capstone values and operational values. Capstone values, Danny, are like honesty, respect, you know? Right. Whereas operational values are like, no, this is how we expect you to be when you show up to work.

Yeah.

Right. And at Granum, our operational values are go the extra 1%. Be biased to act. Be forgiving. Right. We before me mentality, hold yourself accountable to outcomes. And so just because we are, I'm an aspirational leader does not mean I forego these operational values because these operational values are very important to me as a human. Right. I work hard, I expect you to work hard. Go the extra 1%. I put others before I put myself. If it's important to you, it's important to me. Be biased to act. If you see a problem, fix it. If we put a goal out there, hold yourself accountable to outcomes. And that's what I mean. State who you are and you will attract people who respond well to that. Right. And so all of a sudden, you don't really have to hold people like through command and control, accountable to outcomes because you've attracted people who are like, yeah, I like holding myself accountable to outcomes. Just tell me what the outcome is. Right. And so you set up kind of

like the ground rules for people to

exist within that container and then set the scaffolding. Yeah, yeah, put up the scaffolding and then they can go to work.

It's a great man. This is a great perspective. These are things even I wonder about as we grow our organization. I'm just kind of like playing.

None of this is easy, by the way. None of this is eas. I didn't say it was easy, but, like, this is how I do it,

so just do it this way. The other thing I was interested to get into with you is, is you of all people have a bit more of a bird's eye view of the green industry right now. And I imagine you guys are highly tuned into what's going on. I would love to know your vision or just outlook for this industry over the next five, even maybe 10 years. Like, where are things going and where the opportunity lies for especially those listening.

I, you know, I'm obviously, I'm extremely bullish on this industry. You know, I, I stepped into this industry after doing an evaluation of world opportunities and this one, the green industry is by far and away the most interesting to me and attractive couple reasons, and it's probably true across several other, you know, like verticals. But I think there's a strong push for technological adoption in the green industry today and across multiple fronts. Robotics, you know, AI is playing a huge role in like how people start to interact with our day to day operations. And also too, the green industry is still very green field in terms of adopting end to end software to manage their business. Only around 55 to 60% of the marketplace is still pen and paper. Right. I should have said that the other way. 55 to 60% of the marketplace is still pen and paper. Right. And so that's a huge opportunity. And there's also this kind of like generational thing that's happening in both Canada and America where you have a lot of people that are starting to hand businesses down or sell businesses and there's a younger generation that is taking them over that have a different expectation from how technology can help leverage and benefit the business. So I think over the next five to 10 years, if I were just to speak in a generality, the green industry is going to thrive, it's going to get much more efficient and there's going to be continued consolidation in the marketplace. Both B2B acquisitions and obviously private equity has stepped in and tried to roll up this industry. I think that would be a little bit more difficult in the green industry than they think. But I think in general you're going to see this kind of push for growth efficiency, better customer experience, more automated experience for the operations themselves, a much more technologically forward position from the green industry. And I think that's going to bode very well for the folks that own the companies and the folks that want to step in to start a business in this industry which is constantly growing.

So you're just saying embrace, embrace the new technology, embrace the change that's coming because it will. Yeah, yeah, which makes sense 100%. Let's look at the opposite side. What do you think is the biggest dysfunction of the green industry right now that needs to be addressed?

You know, that's a, that's a really good question as well. Like, I think it's kind of like strengths and weaknesses and humans. It's like what is your greatest strength? And then you ask what it. Well, what's your biggest weakness? It's usually the side of your strength. Yeah, exactly. It's like, well, I'm super ambitious. Well, I can really piss people off because I, you Know, I think it's kind of the same thing. I think the like the biggest opportunity is just like taking the bull by the horns and adopting technology in a meaningful way and just kind of like getting over that fear and that also like very real pain of implementing a software and changing your operation. That is one of the things that is holding the industry back right now.

You know, while you were talking about where things are going, you know, I was thinking about the whole time was the, the farming industry. And I don't know if people realize it but like how much technology has infiltrated how everything is done there these days, how much crazy especially mega farms are starting to become more of a thing. And, and it's actually, I don't like you don't hear about it in the news, but if you go to a farm today versus a farm even 20 years ago, it is a wildly different operation, totally different with a fraction of the people actually it's been. And because I think it's a little easier to automate. It's a bunch of giant fields that are usually square and you can map that and. But what you're describing smells to me anyways like where that industry is today in 10 years from now.

I would say it probably totally fair and agreed. By the way, the farming industry has generally kind of like skyrocketed in their technological adoption. But I've been part of three industries that were just like kind of non technological adopters and then did. And they all kind of like walk and talk like a duck, you know what I mean? It's like you see this opportunity, it's latent, you know, and then all of a sudden there's a big jump over a five to seven year period where like market penetration really starts to happen. And I think that's where the green industry is today is across multiple fronts, like I said before, which I think is pretty interesting, right? Like being able to combine AI, business management, kind of like system of action type platforms and automation and the actual tools that do the work as well. I don't know in the history of time if those three things all came together. Obviously because of the advent of AI over the last or the acceleration of AI over the last two years.

Yeah, a lot of things are going to move very quick. You know what's interesting was have you ever heard, you probably have, you know what a Yarbo is like a little robo lawnmower. So I jumped on that bandwagon when they were in their Kickstarter. I've got it up my house it has been a giant headache, but I can still see the opportunity and I'm like, man, this thing operationally it just needs to get smarter at this point. I think the hardware is there. I think we just need to another year or two like you said with AI and a little bit more like brain smarts, this thing will be here. But yeah, when you first get it, I just want to kick it. It's just turned into a lawn orderman for a while.

Well, it's kind of like. What were those vacuum cleane calls? Vacuum cleaners. Yeah, exactly. It's like everybody would rush to get them and then they were like this doesn't actually do that great of a job. Right.

And so yeah, yeah, I forget the name of the one I finally got now, but I had to get three or four roombas that just went nowhere and ate the worst of things in anyway.

That's right.

Sorry for Roomba. But yeah, eventually it gets figured out. So what you're saying is we're on the cusp of that. We are a few years.

So yeah, like, I mean I think we're kind of like there like we're experiencing it right now. Like, you know, there's lots of green industry businesses out there that are crushing it with using autonomous mowers, etc. There's businesses out there that are leveraging AI to its fullest extent. There's businesses out there that like are implementing business management software and systems of record and action continuously and like doing a really good job and highly efficient and growing. So yeah, I think we're, it's happening right before our eyes.

So the next logical thought is how do we address change management in our companies then? Because A, I just respect the hell of what you're doing with you know, element greenius single ops, making this all granum now like you're, you're in the thick of it right now.

Yeah.

And for every operator listening with all the change that's happening, I'm sure a lot of people right now are actively starting to think through this stuff. What is some principles or thoughts or just best practices when it comes to change management. So our people will embrace all of the things that are coming and we can do a good job with this.

I almost go back to basics on this type of stuff. Like humans really do just thrive being part of the story. If you think about cultures, Danny and tribes and the way that we've evolved as societies, it's all through stories. And so I think the very first thing that you have to do in order to be effective at change management is make sure that people understand what's the story we're trying to tell here. What's the ending too? Right. That's that vision. Right. And then what do you expect out of me? Like, you have to be very clear and highly communicative to what you expect out of people and constantly reinforce that. I'm, I'm, I've been leading companies and teams for over 20 years now. I am still amazed today. Probably again, I go back to. I'm a pretty slow guy. I'm still amazed at how much you have to say the same thing over and over and over again. Like to the pain, to the point where it's almost painful for you. Right. Like it is painful for you actually. And so, so being highly communicative and then be very quick to listen and take feedback. If you do those three things well, like, what's the story? What's the end goal of the story? What's my role in the story? And then you being an, like, participant in the authoring of that story and listening to it unfold is incredibly important.

Yeah. I almost summarize that. My mind is like, if you're going to create change, you better be damn sure you understand the details of what this actually looks like. And not just a cool shiny object, which I think a lot of entrepreneurs, including me, get caught up in. Right. There's, there's just stuff that comes like, this could be amazing. And it's like how it's like kind of this way. And then there's an old south park episode. Ever seen the, there's, it's a terrible example, the underwear gnomes. And they're like, we're going to get underwear and then question mark and then profit. And they're like, well, what's the question mark? Like, we don't really know. We just know it's good. So, like, to get clear on that equation and to get very clear on the path so that when your team is coming to you being like, where does this involve me? You have a clear, direct answer for that specific person. Not just the high level stuff, but how it gets down into everyone's daily life. I've also seen this and I agree with you. The repetition of saying things more than you think you need to. I don't know what this stat is, but in education, like the human brain only takes in 10 or 15% of what's being taught in a classroom. And that's probably even less when the CEO's talking on a Tuesday. When you're Busy with some other stuff. Right.

Well, especially if it's all over zoom and people have their emails going and they're, you know, there's background stuff in their life going on and. Yeah, like, so, like life. Right. It's always in session. And so you do have to say it over and over and over again. Yeah.

And then the final thing, I agree with you and it's. It's a bit of an ego check, but to, To. To openly listen, objectively listen, and just be aware that, like, you might not have had it right the first time. And that's totally okay. Actually, if anything, there's probably a lot of, like, a lot of the actual gold comes during implementation from people's feedback.

So, yeah, I think just being curious and asking questions, especially why, is really important.

Okay, Granum, this is going on. This is like launching right now as we speak. Correct speak. Tell us a bit about this. Tell us what it's all about. What are the benefits? Those who are listening to this industry? What are you guys up to?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, so we have. We. We brought three companies together. Single Ops, Greenhouse and lmn. Greenius and Element were kind of already brought together, but they are three distinct companies, three distinct products, three distinct customer bases and heritages and legacies and stories, right? And so when we came together, like, one of the things that became super clear to me personally, Danny, was like, oh, wow, we have a lot of, like, really core shared values. And the biggest one was we are here to serve this customer, right? This green industry. Customers landscapers, irrigation specialists, tree care companies and arborists, right? Et cetera, design, build, commercial maintenance, residential maintenance. And we're here to serve them. And as I looked around at the marketplace and I thought about the three products, one of the things that came clear internally is like, we were all seeking to unite under this one company, one team, like one mission mentality. And that was really important to us. Like, not me, like the companies, like, hey, and. And we were hearing that and we were feeling it. They were, they were. Everybody was buying into what we were, like, saying that we wanted to do to revolutionize the green industry and stay squarely focused there. And so that was the kind of the first trigger to say, like, hey, maybe we should probably unite these brands and put it under one kind of banner, you know, one company, one team, one mission. The second thing was, is I watched our competition kind of go start to point the gun at different parts of the contractor space, right? And so, you know, we have a couple of competitors that are really Horizontal. They focus on all kinds of contractors, green industry contractors, H vac, electricians, you know, roofers, you name it, right? But there's very few that just focus squarely on the green industry. And I think that's one of our biggest differentiations and points of pride for us, it's like, no, we're here for you. Right? One green industry contractor. And so that was the second thing that kind of cemented to say, let's come up with a new day, let's come up with our new story to say, this is who we are to the world. And so, as you can imagine, we went through a ton of machinations of like, well, what are we? Who are we and what do we want to say and how do we want to say that? And you can imagine the number of names that you go through, through functional names, experiential names, evocative names. And we just kind of landed on granum. And the origin of the word granum is seed. And it just felt so right in terms of the way that we were thinking about what we were trying to do in the industry. We were trying to start a new story, build something anew and grow, help our customers grow and thrive by providing them technology and tools and resources and then they foster that into something amazing, which are the businesses and enterprises that they're building already today. It was an opportunity for us to say that we are kind of starting something new as companies, like we're joining as one. And so we just made the decision to rebrand, which is not an easy decision to do. Danik. Because Element, people fall in love with Element. They fell in love with Single Ops, they fell in love with Greeniest. They fell in love with the people and the stories and the experiences and the interactions that they had with those companies and products. And so what we did was we tried to honor that. Like we tried to honor that with we are. This is a new day. We're going to completely transform the way we do things and accelerate our investment in this industry. But we also want to honor the legacy and heritage of LMN and Single Ops and Greenhouse. And so we kept those product names and it's just LMN by Granum, Single Ops by Granum and Greenhouse by Granum. But the company is Granum.

And is it fair to say you are now sitting in a seat where you have to be hyper aware of robotics, of AI, of the technological change, and tie that with the day to day operations of these snow removal landscaping service companies and bring that to market? Is that your Job at this point?

Yeah, 100%. It's like there is a shared story that our tagline is your success is our shared mission. There's a shared story amongst these professionals. They're struggling with the same challenges, they're taking advantage of the same opportunities, they're doing it in different communities all over North America. And they're trying to build and diversify their business and grow it or make it more efficient, one or the other. And so our job is to kind of be, grant right, to be the seed for them to be able to kind of plant and grow over the long term into something amazing. Because like seeds are mind boggling to me. Like they just start off as this thing that you plant in the soil and it takes time and care and cultivation, but then they grow into something pretty amazing. And there's different stages of that growth, right? And each stage is like pretty interesting, you know, if you just take time to reflect on that. And so yes, we're kind of at this like beginning stage of like a technological adoption slash revolution and the green industry space. And Granum's job is to help partner with our customers and the operations and the industry to help kind of guide that. Right. And help it flourish over time through all the stuff that we do.

Sounds like a lot of responsibility, my friend.

Which is fun though.

Amazing. I have a few more questions for you. Given what you've just described to me and given, you know, I know these brands and they're not small and they do represent a pretty important part of this industry. How do you maintain balance and still lead at a high level? Like what is your rhythms, routines? How do you main. Because I know you like every time I talk to you, a super chill dude and you're always just like very like present. And that's not true for all CEOs. Like how do you, how do you, how do you do that?

I mean, I think, I think you and, you and I had a warm up conversation to this before. We kind of just shared war stories to a certain degree. I learned a long time ago, like the, the old saying of just flow like water, you know, Like I, I, I don't believe that there is such a thing as work life balance. Like when you think about balance, I kind of think of like one of those seesaws and it's never tilted up or down. It's perfectly balanced, right? And my life has never been that. I don't know about everybody else's life that's listening, but I can assure you my life has never felt Perfectly balanced. Balanced, right? And so I think more in seasons and ebb and flow and then the flow like water concept, which is every chance I get an opportunity to maximize time with my family, I take it and I lean into it as hard as I possibly can. Right? Every chance I get to try and maximize efficiency in my operational day with work, I take it. I don't let it slide by. I don't let it just kind of float into the ether. Right. And then the other thing too is like, I just understand, like, there are seasons in your life. There are seasons when family is like, really pressing down and really has high demands of you. That's okay. Add with it, right? And there's times when work is just like, you know, we're launching a new brand. We're coming up on the event season. You know, there's tons of work to be do. This is our busy season. Like, it's flowing, and so you got to flow with it, right. I think the. The folks that really struggle with work. Life balances is when they're trying to fight it, right? When they're trying to fight the arbor, trying to fight the flow. And I found that that's a losing battle every single time for me.

When I think about flow, I literally think about being in a tube flowing down a river and being like, look like I can paddle left and I can paddle right. So if there's a stick in the way or a crocodile on the way or whatever, like, I'll get out of the way of the obstacle, but all I can do is paddle left or right. I can't swim upstream. And that's what you're describing is some people are trying to swim up against the current, and then you just. You get exhausted, and then you hit all the things. Cause you weren't paddling left or right, but you're. You need to go with what you're. What's being presented to you and make small strategic adjustments without trying to break the system and just go, I. I refuse. I must do it this way. The other thing I always think about is like, it goes back to when I was 18 years old. My first business I ever ran 80 hours a week. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. College Pro Painters. It's like, welcome to College Pro. You're going to run this little business. My girlfriend, who's now my wife, has been with me since I was 16. So she was like, what the hell is this? And you can't do this again ever again. If we ever going to stay together, and so at the end of that season, I didn't plan to, but I did sign back up for another year about three or four months later. But I had to make a deal with her. And it was like, honey, look, I think what I figured out is, like, my May to August, September is going to be nuts. But I promise you, after that, I will make you a priority and we will go on a little vacation to kick that off. And then, like, through the off season, we're gonna. But without those expectations. She just thought I didn't love her anymore. She just thought, like. And as soon as I set that expectation, she was kind of like, okay, I get it. I'm gonna hold you to it. But.

Right,

But I get it. And that second season was so much easier on me mentally, on her mentally. And then it flowed, like you said, so much better.

So, yeah, I think the, like, the key point takeaway I took, I take from that. Danny is just like, you're highly communicative and you brought her along. And the why, like, hey, this is why it's important. This is why, you know, we should get focused during the season because, like, the end of the story is we get more time together and I will make you a priority.

She's still with me. It's been 20 years and I'm just like, holy mackerel.

Okay, good. Congratulations. That's awesome. I've been with my wife life since. Since I was 18, so we've been together for 30 years.

That's so cool, dude. It's rare. Eh, it's not.

Yeah, 100%. You.

You learn. You learn a few things. That's one of the bigger things I learned is just how to set really good expectations with. Now I'm with my whole family, but it's cry. Yeah, cool, Good. Well, any final words of advice? Any thoughts for everyone listening?

You know, like, I guess the only advice I'll give to folks is like, at the top of every mountain is just another mountain, right? And so, like, the. The summit is not the peak. It is just another opportunity to find another mountain to climb. And. And a lot of times when you're doing the do every single day, like, that can get exhausting. But if you know that the point is just to climb another mountain every single time you get to the top, then that becomes part of the process. So tell your listeners out there, just keep climbing the mountain.

Make sure you've set your own expectations for yourself, which is, we're going to keep doing this. So cool, man. Hey, Mark, that was awesome. Have a great fall. I'm going to do the same. We've got lots going on over at bta. It sounds like you have a lot going on over at Granum, so look forward to seeing the change you guys make in this industry. And thanks for coming on.

Yeah. And thank you for having me on the show, Danny. I really appreciate it. And much luck to bta. And keep on growing.

We will do the thing. Okay. You do it, too. Okay, buddy.

All right, brother.

See you.

See ya.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Contractor Evolution. If you've already subscribed to our podcast, consider sharing this episode with another contractor that you think needs to hear about it.