From Burnout to 6-Pack: The 2 Rules and 4 KPIs That Transform Busy CEOs with Greg Newlands

The goal is physique, and it's obviously optimal performance. So what we do is the KPIs is steps every day, it's weigh themselves every day, it's calories. So we track their calories, we track their protein intake, and they're the 4 key ones. So we know if they're, if they're walking, if they're weighing in, if we're controlling their calories and we're controlling their protein, we can ensure that they're going to lose body fat, they're going to improve their energy, they're going to look better, feel better, and also have, in the walking, time for themselves. So those are 4 critical KPIs that we use, especially obviously for physique. You know, if guys are coming to us, Greg, I want to get into the best shape of my life, then we need to track those 4 things because getting a physique, shredding body fat, it's just science.

Welcome to the Startup CEO Show. I'm your host, Mark MacLeod. I've got a different episode for you this time. I'm not speaking with a startup CEO. If you've been following my content on various channels, then you know that often I talk about the importance of health. I talk about CEOs being basically professional athletes. They've got the same expectations on their shoulders. And therefore, to me, the foundation of excellence, the foundation of being a peak CEO and a peak human is health and wellness. And so I'm really pleased to have Greg Newlands on the podcast. Greg is a professional fitness coach. He coaches entrepreneurs that I know and respect. I'm about to start working with him myself. And so we really unpack all the different aspects of health and wellness, the importance of sleep, the importance of exercise, particularly resistance training, sleep, nutrition, supplementation. Mindset, creating boundaries, lots of actionable advice here. I really hope you enjoy this episode and I hope it inspires you to get healthier. Greg, welcome to the Startup CEO Show. It's a true pleasure to have you here. How you doing today?

Thank you, man. Yeah, I'm really good. Excited to, to talk about health and fitness and the things that we've got in common as well.

Yes.

Yeah.

You know, anyone who's a regular, either reader of what I post or a listener to the show will know that I talk about health and fitness a bunch. I deeply believe that health and wellness is the foundation of peak performance and living a peak life. And far too many CEOs come to me when they can't keep up anymore. And a big part of that is actually that, that health and wellness thing was the first thing to get sacrificed. And so I know I'm preaching to the converted with you, but I actually think you're the best person to kind of help unpack this topic and hopefully convert a few more founders to, you know, prioritizing health and wellness. Let's take a step back. Let's tell folks about you. Just tell us about you, your fitness journey, and your focus today.

Yeah, well, thank you for the kind words. First and foremost, basically, I was, I got into exercise with a gym when I was 17. So prior to that, I always played football, as we say in England. You guys, maybe North America, call it soccer. And then naturally that transpired to me getting a job at the gym when I was 17. And I was working with people who were naturally in better shape than me physically, and I was a really skinny kid, lacked confidence at that time of life. So it was just a natural thing for me to start to dedicate my, my time and my energy, my focus to the gym to build my physique. I felt more powerful, more confident in that, and then that then transpired to where I'm at now. So I've literally been into fitness and this, this world all my life. I'm now 34, used to work for someone, then started my own company. And then here we are now helping high performers, founders, business owners to, to maintain peak shape whilst having a busy life, whilst traveling, whilst still being able to enjoy dinners out with family and friends. So that's basically where my, my journey and where I'm at now.

34. I vaguely remember being 34. I know it happened, but it was, it was a long time ago. What led you to kind of focus specifically on founders, busy entrepreneurs?

Yeah. So when I was in the UK, I built up a fitness company and we had classes such as yoga, strength and conditioning, boxing, HIIT workouts. And that was a general population from my, my area where I lived. My town.

Amazing.

Then when I moved my business to online, I, I wanted to speak to people through my marketing that were the same as me, very driven, very motivated, very goal-focused, high-achieving, because that's just who I am. And I wanted to help the people that thought and acted and behaved like me. So it was just a natural, natural transition to start helping people who are like me. And that's where we're at now, helping, like I said, founders, CEOs, just high-performing people who are busy, who are very ambitious, want to achieve a lot, and are juggling lots of things at the same time.

Love it. I'm curious, when people show up at your virtual door, is it, are they already, they're fit and now they just want to be really fit? Or is it more like, hey, I'm breaking down and I need help? Or is it a bit of both?

I would say it's a mix of two things. So it's either people who have— I always work with people who have been fit and in shape or are exercising. I don't work with complete beginners. So it's, it's either two categories of people. It's either people who have previously been in really good shape and then got out of shape. Maybe it was a very stressful time with work, very busy periods. Whether it was sickness or whether it was a divorce, something has essentially got them off track and now they want to, like, accountability to get back on track. They know what they need to do, but it's being consistent with that that is the key. And then the other bucket of people is people that have always tried and always gone to the gym, been into sports, but have never achieved that, the abs or the six-pack or the, you know, the peak performance that they really have desired. It's like some of our mutual friends, you know, that we spoke about before this. And so their goal is to have the accountability, but also the system with that to enable them to achieve the goal. I love it.

Makes a ton of sense. So what I tell my CEOs and audience generally when I write or speak about health is like, and again, so I only coach CEOs that of technology companies that have raised venture capital or private equity and that are at scale, you know? And so when you think about, especially in these days of AI, right? Running a technology company, like the world's just changing fast. You need to move really fast. And then if you've raised venture capital, well, now you have these giant expectations on your shoulders. And I, what I tell my CEOs is basically you're a mental athlete, right? Like LeBron James, pick your athlete. I'm not a European football fan. It was traumatic. I was a fat motherfucker when I lived in Scotland and they stuck me in net. So, 'cause I couldn't run. And so soccer actually is traumatizing for me. But I tell my CEOs like, you have the exact same expectations on your shoulders as a professional athlete. And you look at an athlete and they have a team around them, right? Like cooking them the perfect macro meals, sports psychologist, you know, physio, whatever they need to be peak performing, they get. And I want my CEOs to take that approach. So I'm guessing that resonates with you, but I'd love your reaction to that and maybe just talk about how what you do fits into that vision.

Yeah, I resonate with that. And your audience does as well, because I had someone join my program after you spoke about that on our mutual friends. Oh no, our mutual friends and my client Adrian. You mentioned that on his podcast on the Exit Podcast. And yeah, now my clients saw that and joined. So shows that these words you speak have impact to people. So well done. Yeah, I truly, if I just look at my own life, if I'm, if I'm not sleeping well, if I'm not exercising, if I'm not rested, I just don't perform the same life and in business. If I look at now, I feel I have incredible energy every day. I feel sharp mentally, physically. I can work long days, I can then go again the next day, but also at the same time finish work and then spend time with my partner and be present and feel good. If I'm tired, stressed, exhausted, I'm just not the same person for business or for life. So, I mean, for me, just, it's monumentally important to, to a great life and a great business.

So maybe let's, let's talk about that first pillar, sleep. Again, one of the first things to be sacrificed, right? And in the startup world, there has historically been this like bro hustle culture mentality, this stereotype of a young, often male founder in a hoodie pounding coffees or soft drinks, eating pizza, and then coding through the night. It's a stereotype, but it, it exists for a reason. And what I tell my CEOs all the time is like, today's performance began last night, depending on like your sleep. So I don't know, maybe just turn it over to you. Talk about, yeah, the importance of sleep and how, you know, some prac— maybe some practical tips for how folks can get better sleep in their lives.

Yeah. A few things that come to mind on this. The first thing that was Oh, the first thing that came to mind was the fact that it's— I see it, business, as a marathon, not a sprint. So, and this is something I'm conscious of all the time myself. So if I'm thinking everything has to be done for tomorrow, then I'm going to work longer and I'm going to put a lot of pressure on myself and lots of— I'm going to sleep less as well. When I realize, okay, if I just take that time for him longer and I still work hard every day and I'm going to get to that goal anyway, then I can just take a little bit more. I can sleep a little bit more and the quality of my life is going to be better as well. And on top of that, I was working, you know, a lot. Maybe 2 months ago, I remember going to my girlfriend's after working a really, you know, full couple of days. And I was with her and I was so tired and I, I just felt, and she was looking at me almost like, like, come on. And I just felt as a man, I want to be a leader to, to my clients, in my, in my life, to my family, to my partner. And if I'm just only focused on work and I'm so exhausted that I'm useless or just not a leader to those around me, That moment triggered me and I thought, come on, you know, prioritize rest and recovery. So I'm, I am that leader to those people, but at the same time, when I'm rested and recovered, I can perform so much better at work. So I just feel like, yes, I do work till 12 sometimes, but because of the strategies I have in place, I still rest and sleep well. So something that really helps me is I have strategic rests through the day. And this is something I recommend to lots of clients. So I will do a, I'll wake up and I'll do a 3-hour work block in the morning. Then I will go to the gym. So the gym for me is a time where I'm going to train my body, but it's also a break away from my computer or my phone from work. Then I will do another work block and I will take another strategic break at 2. 2 PM. Now, there's so many times where I don't want to take that break. I'm, I'm, I'm in, I'm in it. But I realized that if I keep working and I don't take a break, I will then keep working all day and I'm so exhausted by the end of the day. However, if I take that strategic break at 2 PM, then I work again after that and I take another strategic break at 6 PM. I can then keep working till 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 at night. And I feel mentally sharp and energized and unfocused. So the quality of my work is actually better. It's more productive. And then I will sleep well because I'll relax before bed for an hour. Sleep, wake up the next day and I feel great to go again. So I'm able to keep going day after day with energy, with clarity, with focus. And still show up for the people around me, my clients, my partner, in a good way as well. So that's just some insight into what works well for me and what I've recommended to many clients as well.

I love it. Let's, let's go into that strategic break because I think for many folks watching or listening, they're like, oh my God, I can't, I just need to grind. I need to go from Zoom meeting to Zoom meeting. Like, how long is your break?

So at 2 PM, 1 hour. 6 PM, 1 hour, that's when I eat. And obviously when I'm in the gym, it's 45-minute workout by the time I'm there, come home, 1 hour. So key things for me is when I take a strategic break, it's no phone, it's no computer. And like I say, there's times when it's very, very difficult. I have to be very disciplined because I'm wanting to get my phone, send another message, maybe answer a client, maybe a proposal, whatever it is. I have to be very disciplined, but I know the benefit of doing that because I've tested this and I can work, like I say, longer with more focus and more energy. And then also what I do, Mark, is when I'm on that break, I will listen to music, just, just calm music. So you can go on Spotify and write calming music, spa music, yoga music, right? And you know, you're into yoga, so you understand this. So that allows my body to just relax, feel calm, and then I'm ready to go in my next work block. Sometimes I will, that strategic break involves me sitting on a sofa. Sometimes it's going for a walk. It's whatever I feel like I need. I'm very in tune with my body and my mind. Okay, Greg, what do I feel like I need in this moment? Do I just want to sit? Or am I going to eat? Or am I going to go for a walk? And I'll do one of those options with the music at the same time.

What are your thoughts on naps? Are they good?

Yeah, I, again, that comes back to listening to my body. Sometimes my strategic break at 2 till 3, sometimes that will be a 30-minute nap. Sometimes I just feel I need it and I'll give my body that. If I go back 4 or 5 years ago, that would never have been the case. I was someone who wanted to just keep on working and working until I kept on burning out. And I thought to myself, okay, am I going to learn from this? Or am I going to just keep on repeating my same behavior? And what I do, Mark, is I always, I always put everything to a business, to a fitness parallel, so I can see it from a different perspective.. And if I was going to the gym 5 days a week and never ever changing, never improving how I looked and felt, I would think, okay, I need to look at my nutrition and my training. I need to change something. Otherwise I'm just an idiot by expecting a different outcome. So it's the same thing with when I kept on burning out and being exhausted. I thought I need to change what I'm doing, otherwise I'm gonna repeat this cycle for the rest of my life. I don't want to do that. I don't feel empowered. I'm not showing up as a leader to my partner, to my, to my clients. And so that was a change for me. It was a big insightful moment for me. That's when things changed, when I last had a big burnout.

Let's talk about burnout for a second. It's certainly very common for the high-charging entrepreneurs that you and I both work with. How, how did you recognize you were burning out? What, what what did you experience? And yeah, how was it that you ended up identifying that as burnout?

I mean, the last time I burnt out, I, I literally was so exhausted. The thought of working on my computer or my phone was, it was overwhelming. And so I took 2 weeks, literally 2 weeks of very limited work. And that caused me a lot of stress. And that, you know, I want to keep moving forwards every day. And that where I couldn't work much was, was a very detrimental. So it was the burnout. It was not very, very tired all the time. It was not being able to concentrate. My emotions were more erratic. I wanted to, you know, it was, wasn't calm and grounded, not being able to sleep very well. And generally mood was, was not, not good. So, and tiredness, of course, was the key thing. I just felt tired and I just felt like I couldn't— it was very overwhelming, like I said, to just focus on, on work tasks. So that was, that was the last time it happened. That was the worst burnout I've ever had. And that's when I started to correct things. And I can go into what I did if you want to, to know what I did.

Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, for sure.

The first thing, like I said, was putting in strategic breaks. It was also going to listening to music in those breaks. It was also going for either a break or a walk. So that would be, you know, do I go for a walk or do I just sit still with the music? Other things that I realized I was doing was I was, I was, my mind was hyperoccupied by work, by speaking to people. There was also some social things at the weekend. I was also single at the time, so I was trying to liaise dates with girls at the time, talking to them at gym. My mind was just constantly bombarded with lots of inputs. So I had to be very disciplined with what is my objective right now? What is moving me forward? And what is not in alignment with that? And anything that was not in alignment, I cut off. So it was speaking to girls, social things, things that just were not aligned to my objectives with business. So my calendar became a lot more clear. My focus became a lot clearer. I didn't have these external things, inputs, and I was able to just think more clearly, have more time for myself. And that really helped me stay balanced and really helped me just get back to feeling better. At the same time, I was obviously walking, like I said. I was going to the gym 4 times a day— 4 times a day. I was going to the gym 4 times a week.

Okay, it's like, no wonder you're burned out.

For me, I know you do yoga. For me, the gym is my meditation. So if I'm now lifting weights, yes, it's great for my body, but it's also a time where I'm not thinking about other things. So it's just me time. And I advise my clients, whether it's weight training, whether it's yoga, whether it's martial arts, we all have something that we enjoy that's unique to us that we can use as a form of meditation. It doesn't just have to be meditation, if that makes sense, in the, in the kind of sitting there. I also was very disciplined with my foods, like normal. I was eating healthy meals. I wasn't eating sugar and these coffees and these types of foods or drinks that would heighten my nervous system. So everything I do is optimized for performance, for calm, for effectiveness towards the goal I want.

So CEOs, founders, right? They're used to having like a dashboard for their business. They got KPIs, metrics they track. Do you do that? Do you have the same thing for yourself? Do your clients have, have that?

Yes. So with my clients, the goal is it's physique and it's obviously optimal performance. So what we do is the KPIs is steps every day. It's weigh themselves every day. It's calories. So we track their calories. We track their protein intake, and they're the 4 key ones. So we know if they're, if they're walking, if they're weighing in, if we are controlling their calories and we're controlling their protein, we can ensure that they're going to lose body fat, they're going to improve their energy, they're going to look better, feel better, and also have in the walking time for themselves. So those are 4 critical KPIs that we use. They're the, they're the ones everyone uses.. And then obviously depending on the person, it can be specific. They can maybe add, we can add one more or two more depending on what they need. But that's the four core ones that we have and they're what we track on a daily basis. Especially obviously for physique, you know, if guys are coming to us, Greg, I want to get into the best shape of my life, then we need to track those four things because getting the physique and shredding body fat is just science. It's, it's been in a calorie deficit. So as long as we have the right data, we can make—

right, consume more calories than you've taken.

Yeah. Or do more exercise than what you're taking. Basically, you're, you're in a deficit.

Yeah.

That's what I meant.

Sorry. Sorry. Burn more calories than you consume.

You burn more calories. Um, yeah. So, you know, we, we do this, my 3 pillars. It's got to be effective. What do I mean by that? It's got to be the calorie deficit. Now you need that to get the outcome. It's, it's a fact, right? So then it's got to be simple to someone and it's got to be sustainable. So for example, if you joined my program and I said, right, Mark, I know you do CrossFit 3 times a week, but we're going to remove that and instead you've got to go and run every day, you're probably going to think, well, you've lost me. I'm not going to do that, right? It's not sustainable.

So first of all, CrossFit is a cult and a religion. It's like the opposite of Fight Club. We, first thing you do is talk about CrossFit. So we've done that. So yeah, I'm not getting rid of CrossFit.

Exactly.

So that's for sure. Yeah.

What we do on my program, it's called the Founder Physique System. We, we just audit what does someone like, what are they currently doing? And then it's just, we have an effective system with the KPIs for that with what's sustainable and joyful and simple for that. So they're the 4 KPIs that you would need. For, for optimized performance, energy. It's, it's, it's all, it's all a byproduct if you think about it. If we are moving more, we are eating better food, we are naturally going to have better energy, we're going to feel better, and it's, and it spirals from there.

When I onboard new coaching clients, we, we talk about fitness and what it is that you do to be fit or not. And, you know, a lot of CEOs will tell me, you know, I go for a run periodically, or, you know, I got a Peloton during COVID Not a lot of people tell me that they lift weights. And you look at me, I'm not jacked by any way, shape, or form, but I lifted weights for a long time. And weights for me are the fountain of youth. And, you know, I'm 54. We naturally lose muscle mass each year unless we work on it. I've also come to realize that there's a decent amount of cardio stimulation that comes from doing weights. If I do a heavy set of back squats, my heart's pounding. Anyway, I'm telling you all shit you know, but maybe just tell folks why they need resistance training in their life.

Yeah, I'm glad that you are an advocate of it. So one of my clients recently, he was doing HIIT training 3 times per week, and then he was running 2 times per week, and he had no resistance training. And so he, he was losing just under 1 pound per week. Well, he didn't realize he was losing fat and he was losing muscle. So from a, an aesthetic point of view. He wants to have a six-pack and look defined, look really, look really good. But he was never going to achieve that because he was losing muscle mass. So he was going to just be a lighter version of himself on the scales, but with no definition, just flabby. So that's step one. That's, that's reason number one from aesthetic point of view. But the most important point, the most important thing I would say is that when you lose muscle mass from not resist— not using resist— when you lose muscle mass because you don't resistance train, it means that your metabolic rate decreases, which therefore means you have to eat less calories. So to flip that round, the benefit of resistance training is that you keep your metabolic rate high, which means you can eat more food. So it's, it's easier to shred body fat whilst eating more food. All right. And it's easy to maintain your shape and your physique eating more food. If, if you are, you know, if you are, if you don't resistance train, you have no muscle mass on your body, you have to eat very minimal. Therefore, it's very easy to gain weight if you are dining out, if you are on vacation.

Right.

Whereas someone like myself, I've got so much muscle mass from resistance training that I can eat around 3,200 calories each day to maintain my weight.

Wow.

So I can— that's amazing. Yeah, I can. This is where, you know, my, my clients obviously strive to be. We help them get to— so they can— they— I can go on vacation, I can have food that I enjoy, and I don't have to worry about gaining weight or getting out of shape. Cause I've got that muscle mass. Uh, and the benefit of so many founders that don't resistance train is that their body will respond very fast to just 2 or 3 sessions per week because it's a stimulus their body hasn't had before. So many of my clients who haven't consistently weight trained notice that, you know, muscle, you know, quickly. So that's a huge benefit to them. Um, and then obviously You know, so many people talk about, Greg, now I'm in my 40s, 50s, I've noticed that I gain weight faster. Well, it's because they've got less muscle mass. So what's basically happened, as you just mentioned yourself, as you— we get older, people decrease muscle mass, so therefore the metabolism drops with that. So therefore they have to eat less calories, but they don't eat less calories. They always eat, they always eat what they always have, and that means that they gain weight. So as I explained to my clients, cardio in any form, cardiovascular fitness is a good short-term strategy. You burn calories in the now, but resistance training is a, a short-term strategy because you resen— burn calories now, but it's also a long-term strategy because you increase your metabolic rate, which means you keep burning calories 24 hours a day. Even whilst we're talking now, even when you're sat at your desk or even when you're sleeping. So it's very, very effective use of our time. It's a very, if we look at in terms of ROI, it's a very high ROI type of exercise.

And I'm guessing you recommend more the compound movements, the squats, the cleans, those, those types of things versus specific bodybuilding, or doesn't matter as long as you're you have resistance?

It's, it's, I like to do everything, like I said, one of my pillars is simple. So it's, it's just simple. So with many of my clients, it's going to the gym and it's doing upper and lower body workouts or full body workouts depending on how many times they're going to go to the gym. Usually it's 3, so it'll be 3 full body workouts. And it's, yeah, it's a case of the essential compounds, simple exercises. Squats, pressing exercises, rows, pulling exercises, pulldowns, these types of exercises, lunges. So the, the boring compound standard exercises. But again, when I look at my own training, I have the key exercises, the key compound lifts, and I just rotate through them. I'm not always doing something different, trying to master the technique of new exercises. I do the ones that work best and rotate through them. So I've mastered the technique, but there's also some variety in there as well. And that's what, that's what I believe works best for our clients because they've already got headspace on many other things. So when it comes to their training, we want to keep it very simple. So do these workouts, these standard simple exercises with a little bit of variety, and you're going to see results.

Making time to go to the gym, making time for those strategic breaks, those require inserting boundaries, right? And like work expands to fill all available time. If you give 10 hours of your day for work, there'll be 10 hours of work. If you give it 8, there'll be 8. So what have you done to, like, how do you help your clients to create these, these boundaries in their lives?

Yeah, I suppose when it comes to a tactical standpoint, we look at a client that joins last week. So he needs to train on a morning because he hasn't got time the rest of the day. And he knows that if it comes to booking it in his schedule that he's going to train on the evening, he knows it quite easy, just get missed, right? It's not going to happen, right? So we identified that he can realistically, if he's honest with himself, he can work out on a morning 3 or 4 times a week for 30 minutes. So what my advice to my clients, to any founders, is look at the times of day where that are best for you. And for most founders, that's on a morning. It just is. It's, it's, there's the highest chance that that workout or that is going to be done, right? And consistency is what sets the tone for the day ahead. If you exercise in the morning, you're also probably going to eat better that day. But if you're consistent with your workouts during the week, you know, you're going to see progress. So from a tactical point of view, that's— and then from a mindset point of view, honestly, Mark, it just comes to— we have to be honest with ourselves. If, if we want to achieve a result, if you want to have optimal energy, optimal performance, to achieve more, to work longer, to work with a high level of performance in a sustained way like an athlete, like you talked into, we have to do what's required. All right. And we look at, in my point of view, it's I burnt out many times doing it my old way. Now I'm doing it a new way. And it's the knowing that, because I've tested it, it's the knowing that by taking these breaks and by working out consistently, I can work longer. I can work more sharp, more focused, more productively for longer. And I have the energy for the rest of my life as well. Not just, you know, on my computer with no benefit to my loved ones or anyone else. So I think it's both a tactical and a mindset discipline.

You said something important that I think relates to this earlier, right? If I'm always focused on the short term or tomorrow, i.e., I'm always in the urgent, it's harder to stop working. Whereas if I'm in the not urgent, I can probably— you didn't say this, but now I'm going there. If everything's not urgent or sorry, if you're not just in the urgent space, it's probably easier to create those boundaries. Is that a fair statement?

You mean if you are in a state of more ease?

Yeah. Like you're not in fight or flight. You're not, you know, like you're not putting out fires all the time. Like if I feel like I'm just constantly putting out fires, taking an hour to go to the gym is going to feel like a real luxury, you know? Whereas if I can get past that and now wait, Yes, there's always going to be something, but I'm not constantly putting out fires, then might maybe be a little bit easier to get to the gym.

100%. Yeah, I realized this from my own life where, where I was the most stressed and the most overwhelmed and everything was in the moment, every decision, every action, it was just getting to the end of the day and getting through it. Whereas when we, when we act from a place of grounded standpoint and our mind is clear, of course it's easier to, to think about taking that time. But when I think about when I was the most stressed and overwhelmed, the key thing for getting through that was by giving myself more time, right? So in giving myself more time and more rest, I actually got through the burnout. So now it's a case of continuing that because it worked to then not burn out or not get too stressed and overwhelmed again. So for me, by when I do feel stressed or overwhelmed, what do I do? Okay, take a break, stop what I'm doing, go for a 10, 15, 20 minute walk if I need it. Just think, process, calm my nervous system. So I'm not operating from a place of no reaction. And taking time to actually think. So I would say that I'm very good now at maintaining a balance. Of course, there's days where I get more stressed or something, a curveball comes out of nowhere, but on the whole, I would say that I've structured my day to feel more balanced and I've got strategies in place, like I said, with walking. Where I can calm myself so I can then think strategically and with clarity as opposed to just reacting. Well, that's my, that's my thoughts on that based on what's worked well for me and what we recommend for clients as well.

With the walking, I meant to ask about that earlier. Steps were kind of one of your pillars. Is this, we always hear the adage of 10,000 steps. Is it as simple as that or is there more to it?

Well, I mean, it comes back to the, the simple and sustainable pillars of my program. If you were to join my program and you do 4,000 steps each day, let's, let's call it, and I was to say to you, right, Mark, tomorrow you're going to do 10,000. What would your initial reaction be?

Yeah, it'd be pretty, uh, intimidating.

Yeah. How intimidated, overwhelmed? I, I, it would cause more stress. So it's a case of, okay, if you're at 4,000 now, then we start at 4,500. And, you know, we just increase the amount strategically to keep it comfortable and easy for you. So that's the way we do things with everything, whether it's calories, whether it's protein intake, whether it's exercise steps. Sleep is another one. If, if you are going to bed at 1 AM and I say, right, no, it's got to be 10 PM. And I think, what, what? It's impossible, right? Whereas if I say, right, okay, Mark, let's, let's aim for 12:30. We do that for a few weeks and then we optimize further. So yeah, to answer your question with steps, there's not a ballpark, you know, 10K. It's, it's, it's doing more than you were already doing. If, if we look at a, a, a physique standpoint, we want to obviously have a calorie deficit. So if we're doing more steps, what does that do? It's more output. It's more calories burned. So that means we can shred body fat while still eating a decent amount. That's essentially what it does. From an energy and recovery and a mindset point of view, it's not necessarily we need to do 10,000 steps. We just need to get outta the house and walk sometimes when we are feeling stressed and when we are feeling overwhelmed. And that's going to help with, with regulation of the nervous system and just keeping us balanced.

I've heard zone 2 is a very important place to be. Do we get there in walking or does it need something more vigorous? Okay, great. So let's switch gears and talk about food. Again, if I were to stereotype, like many of my clients, hopefully less so now, but certainly when they show up, are not mindful about what they eat. If they eat, it's like during a Zoom meeting, 'cause they're trying to make every moment productive. If I were to ask them, hey, what did you eat a half hour ago? They might not even know. And so I actually think mindfulness and like paying attention to what goes into your body is important. But, but even before that, maybe that's a second or third step. What, what should go into our bodies? Like what do you recommend to your clients?

Whole foods. So real foods. If we think about the food that was around hundreds, that's been around hundreds and hundreds of years. Vegetables, fruits, meats, grains, right? Things that grow in the ground or on trees. Not the stuff that's now man-made. It, like, we have to be realistic. We have to be, let's not be naive. If something's created in a factory and it's processed, is it likely good for the body? Probably not, right? So the, I mean, the first place is looking at whole foods. Something huge for my clients is outsourcing food in terms of meal prep or someone to cook food. So many, many of my clients do this. The reason that is, Mark, is because again, it comes down to what's simple. If we've got headspace on building a company, a brand, and then we've got to start thinking about, okay, what do I need to cook? Okay, do I need to cook this or this? What do I need to buy? How do I need to make this? What ingredients? It's, it's more added headspace. So when we outsource, it removes that. And then when we add the bonus of outsourcing it with a plan, so when it's the right food and it's outsourced, you can see how we, we improve our physique, our energy, and we don't even have to think about it. So this is something that we do with clients a lot. Um, and then, you know, yeah, that's huge. That's my, my big insights on that. When we look at, when we look at strategically for physique, if one wants to build more of a defined physique with abs, then the two key things, the two key metrics is Calories. Calories dictate our weight. If we're eating too many, we gain weight. If we eat less calories and we're in a deficit, we'll lose body fat, lose weight. That's number one. The second thing is protein. Now, a diet high in protein will help speed up fat loss, and it also keeps us more filling. It's protein is the most filling nutrient, so it, we're then less likely to want to eat, have hunger cravings, which is very beneficial. So this is what we want to focus on. Every meal that you eat, whether it's 2 meals a day like most people, or 3 like some, focus on protein in each meal. So that can be fish, that can be chicken, that can be meats. Something in, in protein on your plate, and then you add to that your vegetables, and you can snack there on, in the day, on fruit. Is that the, the gold standard? Um, like I say, for busy founders, outsourcing is just something that I highly recommend for, for consistency and, and sustainability.

How much protein should the average person have? I dunno, let's take a 170-pound, 6-foot person, which is me. So totally selfish question.

So if you are 170 pounds, you need 170 grams of protein. It's always, okay.

That's a decent amount. Yep.

Wow. 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight.

Okay.

In all the, the founders that I help, I would say 90% are eating less protein than their recommended daily intake when it comes to obviously performance and physique goals. So the strategy here, again, it's increasing it strategically and in an easy way. So, you know, with one of my clients recently, it was, he was eating 2 meals per day and he was eating a smoothie and a snack. So what we did was his breakfast was always eggs, so we added 2 more eggs to increase the protein. His dinner was always chicken or fish. So we, this is when he eats at home, so we increased the portion size of chicken or fish. And his smoothie was always a, like a fruit blended smoothie with some granola, I believe.. So we added a scoop of protein powder to that. So straight away he was, I think it was 50 grams of protein increased in his current meals that he was already eating. So it was, it was simple and it was sustainable for him to do that because we did not change his, his routine. We didn't add complexity. So that's just simple ways for you to do it. Look at what you're already eating and then increase in those meals. And protein powder is just a, a simple way, and it's a very high ROI food in terms of protein because for 150 grams of pro— 150 calories, you'll get 25 grams of protein. If we compared that to something else, for example, let's say you have a handful of nuts that might be 150 grams Sorry, that might be 150 calories, but 5 grams of protein. Mm-hmm. So you can see how we always want to optimize for the foods that are the highest in protein.

I feel like there's some myths out there, right? Like that carbs are bad and fats make you fat. My take, and I'm not an expert at all, is like carbs provide the fuel for your body. It's what the muscles burn to contract. And fats are essential for our brain and everything working smoothly. Anything else you wanna say about, about carbs and fat?

It's true. What you've said is what you've said is true. Like I said, when it comes to physique, calories is number one for your, your weight control. That protein will control how you look, your, your definition, the, the abs that you want. Carbohydrates and fats are therefore the nutrients after that. They both do provide energy. Carbohydrates are typically, it's faster energy. Fats are, like you said, good for the brain. So we need those foods in the diet as well. What is easiest in my opinion that we recommend to clients, I do myself, is I optimize for calories and protein. And then the remainder is what I, what I enjoy. So I found myself, I prefer to eat more of a higher carbohydrate diet, whether that's potatoes or rice or lots of fruit.

Of course, you're, you're British. Of course it would have to be potatoes. I say that as a Brit. I've lost my accent, but I've had no shortage of potatoes in my life.

Yeah, I, I mean, I love, so those, oats as well, I like, and fruit. So naturally I feel I have more energy, more focus, and I'm sharper physically and mentally when I eat carbohydrates. If I was to eat lots of nuts or avocado, these types of foods, it's more, it's higher in fat. I just feel like my energy's not, not as, as good. Not as powerful when I have a higher fat diet. So this is just me through my own testing and trialing over the past 17 years. So to answer your question, there's no enemy. Carbs and fats are not the enemy. Both are needed. And depending on what you typically enjoy more is going to determine which is higher in your day. But the key things to simplify and focus on is calories and protein when we're looking at physique for optimization of how we look and feel.

Yeah, I'm trying to think.

So yeah, and then I would just say it just comes down to enjoyment. We want, if we look at diet, people has a connotation of I've got to eat very disciplined, strict, like a bodybuilder, like I used to. But it's not about being on a diet. It's about finding a way of eating that we can sustain for life. And this is why if we, if we can just eat 2 or 3 meals a day, base it around protein, have some carbohydrates, some fats with that, some snacks. Fruits in there, things that we— nuts, things that we enjoy. It's sustainable for life.

I love it. Sounds simple.

Yeah, that's my job.

My, my—

when I think about my, my purpose or what I'm very good at, it's taking things in fitness and health and just simplifying it to what's the— what is the most simple thing that has the highest leverage? So when we audit clients in our first week, it's okay, what's gonna, what's gonna allow this person to get the biggest ROI from their time and energy in the simplest way? That may be reducing alcohol slightly, increasing sleep slightly, increasing protein, adding resistance. It's always going to be unique to their situation, but it has to be simple.

Let's talk about alcohol for a second, right? So you come from England where like there's a pub on every corner. Like, what are your thoughts on alcohol?

I mean, for me, I rarely drink now. The reason that is, is because I see you like, you like to talk about your CEOs, your clients as athletes. And I resonate with that. I often speak to my clients about, I see myself as a high performance Formula One car. So I want to have great energy, great focus, feel productive every single day for my work. But I also want to have the energy outside of that for my partner, to have a great life, to enjoy the weekend. When I drink alcohol, I feel sluggish. I feel tired. I don't feel mentally sharp. Sometimes I feel my mood is less. I feel a little bit more depressed. Now, not everyone is like this. This is just me. And now I've told myself this so many times, the ego will make this true. So it's now a self— no, it's, it's like a circle feedback loop. Exactly. But that's for me. And I know lots of clients, when they cut alcohol out of their— or reduce it significantly, they feel more energized, more productive. And so really enjoy, enjoy that. And it's less calories, so shock, they lose body fat faster as well.

Yeah, yeah. If wine had protein, I'd be on—

oh wow, you'd be on stage.

That's right.

So, but we had a client start 2 weeks ago. Um, basically he, he'd lost weight he'd been in a plateau for 2 months and he was stuck. And as we went, we went through a performance audit for the week and he was just drinking a lot. So he's— we didn't say, okay, you've got to cut this out, because he enjoys it. He winds down with alcohol, or it's something that he does with friends. And again, it comes down to what is sustainable. We want someone to be able to continue this forever. So we just said, okay, you need to just reduce the alcohol. And straight away he's burst through that plateau. He's feeling good. He feels more energized for work and he's, you know, works for Amazon. So yeah, it's benefited him in just 2 weeks. So that's my insights on that one.

Love it. Final question, Greg. A lot of what you've talked about here, just your observations, about yourself require a lot of self-awareness. And so I'm curious how you build that, how you get your clients to, because you're not with them all the time, to get these observations in order to go through these loops and optimize and figure out what works and get better.

So it was the question, how do we get clients to become self-aware?

Yeah, totally.

I mean, the way we do things is we have So daily check-ins, so we're constantly in communication with, with clients and we have strategic calls as well. So if, if a client needs something, we can jump on a call to work through these patterns and these loops. And I posted about this, I think last week on my LinkedIn, where I— it's the same for you. A great coach isn't just someone who gives information and accountability. It's someone who understands that's that person's needs in that moment with a mind. What needs to be said in that moment to help undo the loops, to help them become more aware, to break the patterns from the past, to see things from a different perspective. So like I said, we have calls with our clients, to myself, my performance coaches, to work through these things. And to shine the light to them so they see things from a different perspective. One of my clients recently, he's, he recently went, started a divorce with his ex-wife and they have two children. And then a few weeks ago, this, she had a new partner now and they started to introduce the two children to the new partner. This hit him very, very hard and he took it bad.

Mm-hmm.

So he was therefore drinking more and he was snacking, just comforting himself. It's natural. And I spoke to him on the phone and I said, look, you are human. This is normal. It's fine. Many of us would be in the same, you know, state as you. And I got him to see that if he will also find a new partner, he will. It's inevitable if he's looking for that. He's got two options. Does he want to feel bad? And comfort, eat and drink? Or does he want to make him the best version of himself so he finds that new partner faster and he's in the, the most happiest, vibrant version of himself? So that's just a, a, an— so that's just an example of how we speak to our clients, because it's reframing, different perspective that helps people move forward. When it comes to myself, I'm just naturally someone that's always being very self-aware. I, I don't know, I just like to understand why I think the way that I think, why I operate the way that I do. And something that was massively beneficial for me was doing what's called the Human Design. Have you ever heard of that? Wow. So it's not for everyone because it takes ancient wisdom that some people dismiss, but I'm open to that. I listen to that. And it also takes modern science and it's a blend of both. And basically it gives us a blueprint of how we operate best as a human. And because we are all unique. So I, there's a coach here where I live in Mexico that took me through it and told me what my blueprint was for me. And it basically allows me to understand how I operate best when I make decisions, how my energy is best served, and how I live in alignment with me. And it's very, very in-depth. But now, because I've got that information, I plug that into ChatGPT. And then when I'm taking actions, making decisions with business, with life, I can run it through that lens. So it's, it's insanely powerful for a self-awareness tool and having that. So the Human Design, that's something that I did. It was highly, highly recommend to any founder to just understand how their energy is going to operate best.

Very cool. Huh. Yeah. I'm gonna have to check it out. I've heard of it, but I've never really checked it out.

Yeah, no, I would certainly say check it out. Yeah.

Well, it's been great, Greg. I really hope that it inspires some folks to get on a fitness journey. If people want to find you, how do they find you?

Yeah, so my LinkedIn is best. And also on my LinkedIn, there's my website on there.

Perfect. Good stuff. Well, thank you so much for making the time, Greg. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Awesome, man. Have a great day. Speak to you soon.

Thank you. Hey, thanks for listening to the Startup CEO Show. If you'd like to connect with me, me, be sure to visit my website at markmacleod.me or follow me on LinkedIn @TheMarkMacLeod or Twitter @MarkMacLeod_. And if you want to tune in again next week, be sure to subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time.