Mark Ang, CEO of logistics startup GoBolt, hired senior executives from big companies based on impressive resumes, but they failed because they didn't fit the startup's chaotic stage. He developed a "talent cycle" theory: early-stage startups need "agents of chaos," growth phases need "process builders," and mature companies need "process dwellers." Hiring the wrong type wastes years.
Chapters
My business would be so easy to run except for the people.
Sound familiar?
Here's the reality. As your company scales, your performance as CEO is 100% tied to the performance of your leaders. Mark Ang learned this the hard way. Mark's on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list. He leads GoBolt, a market-leading logistics company. His biggest mistake? Hiring exactly who he was told he should hire. You've done this too. You've hired the proven executive from the big company. The one with the perfect resume, and then watch them fail spectacularly at your startup. Mark discovered why this happens. It's not what you think. The hiring framework that he built transformed his company. One decision, 10x difference. Mark's about to share exactly how he identifies leaders who scale versus those who crash and burn. Let's listen to Mark.
How was the transition? It was you and Hendrik to start. You clearly have product-market fit, literally instantly. You're starting to scale, you know, as you brought on leaders, but just staying on this notion of age, and, you know, like, presumably at some point you decided, I'm going to hire the folks who've been there, done it, got the t-shirt, you know, how did that sit with you? How was it to lead these people and manage these people? Any thoughts on that?
Yeah, this goes back to the notion of why I think people have to qualify that they're not giving like financial advice or things of this nature. And I try not to give financial advice to friends or family, because I might say, hey, this is a great stock buy today, but I'm not going to index to say I got to go back to Mark and tell him that that is now no longer a good buy, sell it immediately. And so when it inevitably tanks or there's a cycle change and it goes down, I don't want to be held responsible. Now, the reason I say that is because I think of like talent in terms of a cycle as well. And there's a time and place for different types of talent and at different levels of scale. And because we were a younger founding team, Heindrick's a couple years older than me. We were always encouraged to hire people who have been there and done that. And absent a rigorous structure to evaluate, develop, manage, which as a younger company you often don't have that. And the reason why you might be coached to bring on these people who have been there and done that is to install that very thing that you don't have. It's hard to then evaluate that person. And so you're left in this sort of like unknown unknown where it's like, oh, is this what someone who's been there and done that looks like? Because I mean, technically, the fact that I'm here, I'm here and I'm doing it. And so what does it look like on the other side? I don't actually have a view. And so we've hired folks who have been quite senior, who have run very large multibillion-dollar businesses and the entire sector of that area that we've hired them for, and they've not succeeded because it's actually not about someone who's been there and done that at the biggest company you can imagine and, you know, want to be like. It's the best person for this point in time of the business's curve, which I break into 3 buckets. Like, you need agents of chaos early days who just make something out of nothing. You need people that build process to start to create some sense of normalcy. And you need people that are comfortable living in process. That's probably like, not to stereotype, but a government agent who just like comes to work and they know exactly what the 9 to 5 is going to look like every day. And there's very different people for every one of those journeys. If you like said, hey Mark MacLeod, like you're going to graduate university and go like staple paper all day, I'd blow my brains up.
Absolutely.
It's just not very mindful. Like, you'll know what you're gonna do. You're gonna, you know, staple X papers an hour and you're gonna do this for 7.5 hours a day and take a 30-minute lunch break and Bob's your uncle. But you know, for us, we made the mistake of hiring people that could either live, like live in process to build process or live in process to be agents of chaos or build process when we need agents of chaos. So it, it just has been incongruent with the, where the business stage is at. And I think the harm in a founder not listening to their gut is, um, is, is pretty significant. And I've not listened to my gut at very distinct moments in our journey, and I've always been fucking wrong.
Hey, thanks for listening to The Startup CEO Show. If you'd like to connect with me, be sure to visit my website at markmacleod.me or follow me on LinkedIn at @TheMarkMacLeod or Twitter @MarkMacLeod_. And if you want to tune in again next week, be sure to subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time.
