American Express’ Mary Ellen Jelenek on Experiences, Membership & Brand Loyalty

We're here live from the Barclays Center in Brooklyn and thrilled to be joined with Mary Ellen Jelinek, who's just celebrated 24 years working at American Express. I'm so excited to dig in. Great to see you.

Thank you. Thanks for having me, Matt.

Absolutely. It's not lost on me that we're here at the Barclays Center and American Express is a big sponsor of the Brooklyn Nets. I live in Brooklyn, big fan of everything you do to support the team here, and I know that you also support a variety of other teams in the NBA, the Bulls, the Lakers, et cetera. Why is the NBA a property that's been so important for Amex as you continue to build your brand?

Well, thanks for having us here, and I'm so glad that you're a fan and that you're a local. That's so important to us. So look, the NBA is an incredibly important partner, and we think about that at the league level in what we do, but also to your point, in the team and the venue level specifically. And so if I think about here in Brooklyn, we make sure we want to offer our cardmembers who are Nets fans the absolute best experience. And if I think about Barclays Center, Barclays has been a great partner for us, as is the Nets and the Liberty. We actually have a relationship with the Liberty as well as we support women's sports. But if I think about the venue, we actually are just launched something called the American Express Venue Collection, and we want to make sure that when our cardmembers show up at a venue, they know that they can sort of get something extra or special because they're with American Express. So we give them access to tickets. We make sure that when they show up, they can get to the action faster because there's a fast lane entrance and then they get discounts on site. And so that venue benefit is now consistent across 9 venues in the US and UK, more to come. But we're excited to sort of give that consistency, whether you're at a Nets game, a Liberty game.

And live sports has really just gained in power in the world of media. I mean, if you look at the top 100 watched programs on linear TV each year, I think 95 are live NFL games. And obviously when you look at linear TV, which is a channel that a lot of large brands have built their brand equity on. The only thing that's really corralling consumers at scale is live sports, right?

That's right. That's right. In linear TV, that's really what remains. And I do think there's so much passion in live sports, right, that it's a really important channel for us in media, but also in that actual on-site experience.

Yeah.

Which if we think about American Express, we really think about ourselves as being in the business of membership. And so when I think about membership, it's really about when you show up, what does it feel like when you're with American Express? Yeah. Right.

And you've been at Amex for 24 years, so the business and the industry has changed so dramatically since you joined. Talk to me about, I guess, what are some of the biggest highlights of your journey at Amex and how you think the business has changed the most from the day you walked into the door 24 years ago to today?

I started in the Traveler's Check division, so that pretty much—

What's a Traveler's Check?

It's not at all, right? So I used them studying abroad and then I joined the company in that role. So I joined the company in 2000. And I was in what was called our Traveler's Check division. It quickly became our prepaid division because we realized those products needed to turn to plastic or metal in some cases. And so I think when I think back to that, I just really wanted to join a company that I knew I could grow at. And so I went to school in Boston. I moved back to New York. I was working in event planning, and I will never forget driving home from New Jersey when the phone rang with my hiring leader that I got the job to go work at American Express. Started as an advertising coordinator. And so when I think back to that, I was super eager and like hungry to learn. I worked really, really hard. And American Express has been really good to me in that they have afforded me opportunities to do a variety of things, work in a variety of functions, be it marketing, advertising, sponsorships. Now I've held P&L roles, I've worked globally. So for me, that growth has just been so fun and it's the 20+ years has gone in a flash. So I've obviously seen the business evolve from paper products to plastics and metal, but it's also also a company that has a tremendous focus on growing talent. And I think that's been really amazing too for me personally, and then to then get to lead teams and do that for them.

And when I think about Amex and just the heritage of the brand, one thing that hasn't changed— I remember the tagline, I don't know how long ago it started, but membership has its privileges, right? And when you talk about me walking to the Barclays Center and the fast pass into the line and getting all these perks, It sounds like that is kind of the constant, right, that you want to make your members feel like that they're taken care of.

That's absolutely right. We call it powerful backing, right? We want to make sure that when you're with American Express, you feel like American Express has your back. And for experiences, that comes in the form of, you know, making sure that the experience is a little better with American Express. We give you access to enjoy your top passion, be it sports, music, and/or theater, and that we can even ignite new ones. That you can try those new things. And then when you're with American Express, you know, you're going to get that access, but you're also going to get something a little more when you visit on site.

And of course, travel is another huge vertical in terms of having your back.

100%. Travel, dining as well. But travel is really like our origin in that having your back and that powerful backing to make sure that your experience is safe, secure, special, all of those things. And that goes back to really at the core of membership. It is experience. It's being— our brand mission is to be the world's most respected in providing an exceptional customer experience every day. And so it's really about that everyday part that across whether it's travel or entertainment or dining. Yeah, that we make sure we're doing something to make the customer experience really great.

It's interesting because when you think about a credit card and the actual product of a credit card, One could look at the product of a credit card like the physical card. Yeah. And then the product attributes could be the interest rate and the experience of paying for the card and actually things that actually have to do with the card. But over time, Amex has really evolved into a lifestyle brand. You don't hear Amex talking about the same. We don't hear, hear Apple talking about their chips as much, right? They talk about what the Apple devices unlock. And the key to being a lifestyle brand is what it unlocks. And for you, you're unlocking a lifestyle. And when you talk about the backing of Amex. So in that strategy, it's obviously a strategy that Amex has gone all in on. How do you know what your members care about? And doesn't that change a lot? And how do you, like, evolve and make those decisions? Absolutely.

Yeah. We are deeply rooted in the customer insights, right? Obviously, our existing card member is at the core of what we do, how we think about bringing to life different assets across sports, music, etc. But we're also really focused on the fastest growing segment, there. So we look a bunch at the millennial and Gen Z customer. They're 60% of the new customers who we bring in.

Wow. Is that through Amex Blue, or are they coming in—

interestingly, no.

Like, a lot of them are coming in through our premium products where they pay a fee, but they see tremendous value, and they're more active, and they're traveling a lot, and they take the most advantage of all the perks that you provide.

Yeah, yeah. So whether it's a travel value prop on the Platinum card or or dining related to the Gold product. They come in and they pay the fee for those products and they really see the value in doing that. So as we think about that Millennial and Gen Z customer, there's a lot that in the experience space that we have in the portfolio that appeals to them. But we also just the end of last year announced a new partnership with Formula 1. Formula 1 is close to having a billion fans.

Massive global movement.

Massive global movement, right? And it's one of those partnerships where I think north of 70% of the fan base is millennial and Gen Z. So it's not a coincidence that we looked at Formula 1 as a new partner. We matched that up because of the growing card member base we have in that segment.

And Coachella is another example of targeting that younger generation.

That's right. That's right. A lot in the music festival space targets that millennial Gen Z population, as well as what we call our direct-to-artist partnerships. We changed up our music model, I guess, over the past 18 months really, where we used to be really focused on providing ticket sale access, presales, and we still have that and it's still part of what we offer. But we realized we really wanted to do more to make it a little bit more special. Sure. So we started to partner directly with artists and their teams to build out a curated experience for our Cardmembers. We did this with Ed Sheeran. We're in the process of doing it right now with Olivia Rodrigo. So if I think about Olivia, we launched our partnership with the announcement of her last tour, and we had a Cardmember concert in LA. It was at a venue that she'd always wanted to play at, but she became so big, so fast. It was a little bit of an underplay for her, right? But she wanted to go back there. That's where that co-collaboration comes in, right? Learning from her team what's important to her, what's important to us, what's important to the fan. And so she did an acoustic concert with a Q&A. Our Cardmembers got to come and see her play some of her Guts album.

Right, an experience that money really can't buy, right?

Exactly right. Can't replicate it, right? They got to learn about the Guts album. They got to learn more about her. I actually was able to attend that one. It was really, really special. So, and then that flows through to she's on tour and we activate with her on tour. So there's a number of ways then that that flows through. And I think it's that hand-in-hand development with the artist team that has been really differentiating for us.

It's interesting because the world's really changed. It used to be that prestige brands didn't want to target a younger generation because it was a signaling that it wasn't a prestige brand. Right. But now when I talked about this 10 years ago when I wrote Youth Nation, which is like the young people are now driving culture and society and you can be a prestige brand by leaning into these things because I think older consumers now are acting younger and they have access to younger things. They have Instagram, they can see what younger people are doing. So they're no longer disconnected, meaning You have older people at Coachella too. You have older people that like Olivia Rodrigo. Right. So you can lean into pop culture in a way that doesn't denigrate the luxury and prestige aspects of the Amex brand.

That's 100% right. And they're multigenerational. Yeah. Is what I think you're saying. Right. Yeah. And I looked around that Olivia Rodrigo concert and it is a multigenerational audience, which is a beautiful thing.

Absolutely.

Right. I love her music, as do my kids.

Yeah. So obviously a big role of any marketer in the modern age is data. And understanding data. Amex obviously has a ton of data across so many different channels. How do you use data from your consumer to drive your strategies and decisions?

We leverage customer insights a ton. We don't do anything without talking to customers before we go to market, evaluating what customers thought on the other side. And I think that is really core to how we go to market, but then also continue to evolve and innovate once we are in market. Yeah. I'll give you an example. Please. We just took all of our experience assets, right? Sports, music, theater, and we put them under the umbrella of Amex Experiences. It might sound fairly obvious, but we were calling it entertainment internally. We were calling the category entertainment. And it's one of those things that, like, customer research told us people think of entertainment as streaming. It's more passive than what you have here. These are full-blown experiences. You have to take credit for what you're actually creating. Yeah. For your card members and fans. And so I think it's just an example of how from the data that drives big decisions, like should we invest in Formula 1 because of the generation it appeals to and the scale through to what are the right words we're using? We're incredibly data and insights driven.

We'll be right back with the Speed of Culture after a few words from our sponsors. And the word experiences is interesting because by nature, experiences are very hard to scale. Right? When you, when you think about in real life and doing something where there's people and then, okay, sure, you can do something here at the Barclays Center. You have your headquarters here, but you're operating, I'm sure, events and activities all around the world at any given time. I mean, how much of that does that take over your job dealing with the headaches and the fire alarms of live events and experiences? You must have some stories.

Look, we've got an amazing team and there are definitely stories.

You can't control it sometimes though.

Well, and I think the key is really like you just, you have to plan, right? You have to have principles and a vision for how things are going to go, but you also have to be flexible. Yeah, you have to be nimble and you have to react in the moment. And I think that's something that we pride ourselves on being very principled, really keeping the brand at the center of everything in both making the brand relevant, but also in keeping the brand safe and thinking about that card member, right? Like what is the right experience for that card member? And if we have to pivot on site, it usually ends up being logistics related that we pivot to make sure that the experience is optimal, right? Absolutely. It ends up being small things.

And how are you as a professional? You talked about consumer insights, which I'm sure is one piece of it, but obviously it's incumbent on you and your role to make sure that you're kind of the arbiter of cool, right? I mean, I don't know if everyone, anyone's ever said that to you before, but you kind of are in that role. If you choose an artist or a franchise or something that is just out of taste with consumers, well, then they may not think that you understand them, etc. So how do you do that? Like, how do you understand what's around the corner to know, to have conviction in something like F1?

Let me tell you, my kids do not think I'm in the Arborview School.

Okay, give me their number. I'll call them. I'll tell them how cool their mom's job is.

So that's amazing. It's a great question. And so I do think we're incredibly data-driven. Formula 1 is a great example, right? And for me, I really learned about Formula One in this job. So I had seen Drive to Survive. I could look at the numbers on paper and say like, the growing fan base is incredible. This is a hot place, right? Like, we should look at this. But I hadn't been to a race. So if I think about that early evaluation, I first did the number side of it and the what's on paper, the viewership, the growing fan base, the—

Buzz, everything.

Yeah. That was huge quite young. But knowing I hadn't been to a race, I said, I can't actually fully evaluate this until I see it in real life. And so it was actually towards the end of the schedule. There were 3 races left, and it meant I either— I looked at the schedule and I said, I guess I'm going to Mexico in 5 days. So the team and I, like, pulled together a trip. We went to Mexico City. And I have to say, seeing it in real life, you always have to see something in real life.

Yeah, for sure.

And it's just electric. Mexico City happens to be an incredible race, but I could just see them the way it would come together of like, this is an amazing experience in and of itself.

And it allows you to activate the right way because how can you drive activation if you've never been there as well?

Of course, you have to, you have to walk in those shoes, right? But I could tell once we got on site, I could see the ways that obviously our cardmembers want access to this, but then we can also find ways to make it special for a cardmember. An example is we play quite heavily in tennis as well, and we've always— US Open. Yes, US Open and Wimbledon. Yeah. And we've provided radios there so fans can hear the match. Well, Formula 1, we said, wouldn't that be great? It's really loud. You aren't always able to hear any broadcast or announcer, but obviously need a totally different radio than tennis. Sure. Right. But that was something we were able to then integrate that like our Amex card members could get that radio and really have an amazing experience on site where they're following every moment of the race. You throw in a fan experience for card members, a lounge, and you start to have our playbook of assets that the Amex card member goes there and knows they're getting something extra special because they're with us.

Yeah. And really something that is contextual to the event that they're at. That's right.

Right. And, you know, then fast forward, we worked with Formula One over the course of many months to come to the right partnership. We launched in Austin and then Vegas was a very big deal for them. We were more than 50% of the tickets sold for Vegas, which was another— like, going back to your data question, you then have the validation on the other side that, you know, we're acting as a business results. That's right. It was the right thing.

And obviously experiences are such a big part of people's passion points. But the other thing people love is their phones and they're staring at their phones 24/7. Me too. And the way to reach them on their phones, as we know, is through content. Mm-hmm. So what role does content creation play as an extension to all these events? Because I would imagine it creates a massive, way more scalable opportunity to take the power of these events and drive the business results.

That's 100%, right? Right. And we think about that content creation as expanding that reach. To your point, we expand the reach of the event. It then tells other Cardmembers, but also our prospects. I think that content of, I was an Amex cardholder, I got my tickets through Amex, I went to the US Open, there was an incredible fan experience. I was able to go to the Cardmember Lounge when I needed a little respite. I got this radio. All of that can broadcast through. And then the prospect who maybe they're at the event and they see that, or maybe they're looking at it on social and says, oh, that's pretty cool that Amex does that. And they realize then that we do it. At tennis, at golf, in racing.

Oh, the passion point.

Right? You start to realize those expanding concentric circles of places where we show up that way.

Sure.

That content is hugely important for us.

And are you working closely with folks in like, say, card member acquisition to be able to retarget people based upon the passion point interests to take that content as sort of like a carrot to bring them into the portfolio?

We think about the full funnel of marketing, right? Yeah. So we think about experiences and things like that content media being upper funnel, but then flowing through eventually to acquiring that new customer.

Absolutely.

We even sometimes let customers, you know, sample things on site. If you think about, you show up at the American Express Fan Experience, we will let a prospect come in and take a look at that so they get a little taste of membership too.

Yeah, absolutely. So looking forward in terms of how quickly things have changed with the consumer, are there new trends and habits that consumers are adopting that you have your eye on as a marketer to keep things moving forward?

Definitely. Okay. I mean, I think that in the music space, we're always focused on what's next, that next artist. I think that gaming is an interesting space that we're evaluating. I also think like further integration between the physical experiences and the digital experience is increasingly important to us. We've done some of that. If you think about— I'll go back to Wimbledon. We had a Fortnite game integration with that activation so customers could experience the real-life match, but then also play in-game. I think that there's also an increased integration, one for that interesting gamification that customers are looking for, but also there's a practicality. As you said, everybody's on their phone and an ease that we want to make sure we deliver. So most of the events that we activate at, we are starting to integrate into their app. If you think about somebody's going to Coachella, well, before they got to Coachella, when they download the app to see the lineup, we make sure that we are integrated into that app. So that they know what they can get with their American Express. They know where the card member lounge that they can go to, the fan experience that they can go to. And actually this past Coachella, we also made sure that we pushed out a merchandise offer on their app before the event even started. So it also starts to extend the time period with which the event is relevant, which is, we think, an important thing.

Yeah, I mean, a few things came to mind as I heard you talk. One, in which you talk about gaming, and you can't mention sports these days without mentioning sports gambling, which is now legalized in many states here in the US, for better or worse. The NBA has embraced it as well as fantasy sports. So, yes, those are things that have gamification that have really driven a deeper fan engagement and really brought the casual fan into the fold of sports.

That's right.

Yeah. So it's gonna be interesting to see how that evolves. The second thing, I was at a dinner with a group of marketers the other night talking about the Apple Vision Pro. Mm-hmm. Uh, have you gotten to try those on yet?

I have not.

Okay. Because that to me is something where I'm not sure how quickly that's going to be adopted and gain widespread adoption. When you talk about bringing the experience to people and the access and the content you're able to create, I would imagine there's a world in the future where VR/AR could have real applications to your cardmembers and your business model.

It's incredible to think about, right? The way that could scale something that's almost an in-real-life experience.

Yeah.

Now, what I counter that with is that I do feel like the growth and desire for experiencing something that is actually in real life.

Yeah, I don't think it's in place yet.

It's usually there. Yeah. Right.

And I think about—

I agree with you. I think there's two actually forces on the customer side that would have really pushed that forward in the experiential space. One is that there was definitely a post-pandemic reaction of I want to go to in-real-life experiences.

Yeah, I want to feel alive. I think they call it travel rage or something.

Travel rage, revenge travel.

Revenge travel. Right, right.

And I think they just want to feel alive. Yeah. You go to a sports event, you're screaming for your team.

Or a concert. Sure.

You're exactly, you're singing along with the artist. You feel so alive. Yeah. And I think that's here to stay.

100%.

The other piece is that the millennial Gen Z population, if we ask them sort of, you know, when they join American Express, they're 60% of our new cards. Experiences are a big driver of why they signed up. And we also know that that's a population that is willing to pay. I think it's nearly 80% said they'll pay up for the right experience, and also they're willing to travel for those experiences. A little over a third, or say, not only do I want to have these amazing experiences, I'll travel to see that sports team, to experience that incredible, like, event. So I do think the in-real-life piece is here to stay and will always remain important.

Yeah, it's interesting as I think about the role of Amex in my life. So I signed up, I think, for my first Amex when I was at BU, and I'm still an Amex card member today, but now my business uses Amex. So I also would imagine that you targeting millennials and Gen Z who are entrepreneurial by nature, there's a crossover impact to your business side of your consumer application. That's—

yeah, look, we have a huge focus on small businesses, right? Yeah. And businesses of all sizes. So I think we're definitely focused on meeting the needs of businesses at any level in both the payment side of things as well as if they're an accepting merchant. And I think that's actually another— having been at Amex for 24 years, I spent a good amount of time also working on our Shop Small programs, which was an incredibly rewarding one. Did that in the pandemic. But I think we have a keen focus on making sure that we're helping businesses as well as consumers.

Absolutely. So shifting gears as we wrap up here to you and your career, obviously great run at Amex, and it sounds like you continue to just drive incredible innovation to the brand. When you look back at your career, you made decisions to stay at one place your entire career, which is really rare. And a lot of people now, I think, that come into the workforce think that they need to move every 2 to 3 years.

Yeah.

And I guess in some ways there's benefits to that, but there's also benefit to understanding a culture and a business and feeling comfortable and working your way up. What were some of the decisions you think you made right along the way besides just sticking it out there that allowed you to put you in the position that you are today?

Sure. So look, I have a left-brain answer to this and a right-brain answer to this, right? I think on the left-brain side, I've had, an amazing range of experiences. So I've worked in B2B businesses as well as B2C businesses. I always tell marketers you want to work across both.

Yeah, I agree.

No matter which direction you end up going in.

You want to cross over too, but I agree.

But I think the depth of customer insights you learn from working in a B2C business is unparalleled. And I think the complexity of a B2B business is really important to understand. And so I feel really grateful. And that was one thing that's afforded me in a number of roles where I've been able to do both. The other I'd say is it's a truly global company. And so I've really been able to work across a variety of geographies and a variety of business lines. That was really, really good experience. And that sort of helps me flip to the right side brain of it, right? Like, I think I have colleagues, friends, mentors from all around the world having worked at this company. And I do think the people at the company are special. I do think it's a company where there is longer tenure, perhaps a little abnormal in this day and age. Yeah, but I think it's because there's an open-mindedness to growth. And if I think about the variety of roles Amex has offered me to play at the company, be it across levels, obviously, but also across functions, I've worked in marketing, I've worked in product roles, I did a stint in M&A, I've managed P&Ls. It's been a nice range of activity that I felt like I was always growing. And so I think it's that combination of the business really having multiple businesses within. That allowed me to grow. I always felt like there was something new. Yeah, right.

I think there's a— That's when people leave is they don't feel challenged.

That's right. And I think there's a strong culture of innovation that makes things feel fresh, right? Yeah. So 24 years can just go by in a flash.

I know. I know it all too well. And when you think about the next generation of leaders at Amex and building your team, what do you look for in bringing new people onto your team? And what makes an entry or newer level employee successful at Amex?

I've always said there's two things you want to do. You want to make sure that you're driving results and that you're building strong relationships. And if you do those things across any body of work, I think your likelihood of success is really, really strong.

And how are those strong relationships built, in your opinion, in a corporate environment?

Look, I think it's largely about listening. I think it's about both, you know, to what somebody's saying, to what they're not saying. I think it's about asking probing questions. Yeah. I think it's about finding mutually beneficial solutions. And that's with internal partners as well as external partners. I think it's probably the most important thing in my job right now, right, is really listening and making sure that I can solve problems in a way that it works for all parties involved.

Yeah, you never stop listening no matter how long you've been in the company. There's always more to learn.

That's right. And it's never a zero-sum game, right?

Absolutely. Cool. Well, to wrap things up here, I mean, it's been so amazing to hear about your journey and everything you've accomplished at Amex. Is there a mantra or saying that you like to live by? You think you could embody your career and your journey?

Oh, geez. I actually, I often say to people is enjoy when the wind is at your back, right? And like success can be glorious and absolutely enjoy that. Don't enjoy it for too long. I think you have to keep moving on and keep delivering. And on the flip side of that, what I always say is that things will go wrong, particularly I say this to younger colleagues, right, who perhaps haven't had that experience yet of something going wrong, and I say what matters in that situation when something goes wrong is how you handle it. I think you wanna be honest, you want to look at it objectively, you wanna stay calm so that people tell you what's actually happening. Keep your head about you. And I think the way you handle something going wrong is really indicative of character. And I think that's what's probably the most important thing in how you manage your career. Absolutely.

Couldn't agree more. Awesome. Well, thanks again for joining. On behalf of Susie and the Adweek team, thanks again to Mary Ellen Jelinek for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Till next time, see you soon.

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