From Everest to Urban Streets: The Evolution of The North Face with CMO Sophie Bambuck

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Everything we do is athlete. We consider this athlete tested expedition proven. So we have an athlete team. We have 150 athletes worldwide. They are the best in the outdoor space. They are the people who do the first descents. The first descents. They are snowboarders, they're trail runners. They test the product. They rely on the product to live, to survive. We actually give them product in the harshest conditions in the world.

To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move in an ever increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of susee. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer.

Trends within their industry.

Why it matters now, and how you can keep up. Welcome to the speed of culture.

Today, we're thrilled to be joined by Sophie Bambuc, the CMO of North Face. In 2018, Sophie was named one of Forbes 50 CMOs who are redefining the role. And six years later, she has no intention of slowing down. Sophie, so great to see you here in Las Vegas for CES.

Thanks for having me. Very excited.

Absolutely. You know, 20 CES has not always been the conference that every marketer came to is actually originally just people who made actual consumer electronics. Why is important for North Face to be at a conference like this and understand the world of technology?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's, there's twofold. One is relationship. There's a lot of people in the industry. Now that we know who are here, we actually also see a lot of media partners that are now at ces. So it's important for as a brand to be here and make sure that we get the FaceTime during the year. We usually don't get to see each other very much. So this is a moment. And then also, we just want to know what's coming up, what's coming next. I mean, CES is a place where all the new cool stuff is happening, so we want to see what's going on. I'm going to, actually, tomorrow morning, I'm planning on walking the floor to see health and wellness and sport, just to see what's up. Even if I don't actually have a direct business, I'm curious. I want to know what's out there. You never know where inspiration comes from, Right?

Yeah.

And I think the worlds of fitness and technology have obviously very much overlapped in the last couple years with the Apple Watch and with the Oura Ring and the Whoop and all that. So, I mean, is that a space that North Face is actively looking at?

No, not actively. I mean, it's a space that we're interested in. Of course, it's not a space that we're necessarily investing in. I think right now it's more because we're so focused on our apparel and footwear innovation. This is very much where we are focused. But even in that, when you think about apparel innovation nowadays, within your apparel, there's so much you can do. So, again, maybe it's less purposeful right now. It's more curiosity. I think eventually we'll probably get to a place where it makes sense. But in my career, I've had many stints working on wearables and all that, and I see when it works, and very often also, it doesn't work. So we're not rushing in. It would need to make a lot of sense for us to go there.

Yeah.

And speaking of, early in your career, you spent 15 years in Nike, obviously iconic brand. If you look back at your entire stint there, what were some of the main takeaways? Because obviously they do so many things. Right. I would imagine that you learned so much there. What comes to mind?

Yeah, I mean, when you're a marketer, I think it's the best school for marketing. Nike does. Nike marketing. It doesn't always translate or transfer to other brands. That's the number one question. When I've gone to other brands, people want to always ask, can we do the same that Nike does? Well, actually, it's. It's kind of hard. Nike has a specific way of doing things, and it doesn't work very well. But I do think that I've learned the value of brand, I've learned the value of creative, I've learned The value of product marketing and how product marketing can be brand.

Yeah.

And aspirational.

Well, to the consumer it's all very much connected.

Exactly. It's really about providing benefits to the consumer and solving problems that they might not even know that they had. And so in the process of doing that, how do you build your brand? How do you create affinity for your product? And honestly, Nike, you know, has been one of the best at this. So I have to say that's the number one thing I learned. I learned how to be a marketer. I learned what it is to be a well rounded marketer. But then also there's the benefit of Nike being such a powerhouse that you said it does a lot of things right. It actually does a lot of things wrong. But the beauty is actually failure is encouraged because you learn from it and then you reiterate and you improve. And that's obviously something that only a very healthy and big company can afford to do. But that's the beauty of working with such a big brand is you can actually fail and learn. When you don't fail, you don't evolve. Right. And so I'd say that's the other thing that I learned is to take risks and experiment.

Yeah, I know it's Hollywood, but you know the movie Air, you know, they go through the formulation of the Air Jordans and before they met and brought on Michael Jordan, they talked about the, the sneaker, the basketball brand was like about to go under. They couldn't get it right. And they kept trying and trying and then finally they hit gold with Michael Jordan. Right. So it's a kind of a microcosm of what you're talking about. You have to fail, fail until you finally get it.

And it's about having big ambitious goals. Even if it feels unattainable or even if it feels like there's no way. That's what I loved. I don't know if Nike today does the same thing, but back in the day it was very much about we're going to become a women's brand or we're going to, going to skate. I mean, Nike going to football, soccer was a big deal.

Yeah.

U.S. based company diving in Adida had a huge presence already.

It was even internally, it was like, can we do this? You know, and going after skate was the same thing. I mean, skaters did not really want a big brand getting into skate. And then you saw the work of Seti Bodecker and all that. I mean, it was beautiful. Big ambitious goals.

What goes into entering a new category like that going into skate at a.

Company like Nike, authenticity, making sure the right people are involved in the conversation, that you're taking as much insight from the community as possible and making sure that everything that comes out, whether it starts with product, always, but everything is thought through. Again, when I say serving the consumer, it's that with that authenticity and that insight, how do you actually build the best product with the resources that you have? So again, when you're a big company like that, it's easier because you have.

Access to a lot, but you can't always just buy your way in. Like we've seen a lot of companies try to buy their way into compete with Nike and they weren't able to succeed yet.

It doesn't work. And again, that's also why sometimes you try. But if you didn't have the right insight, you have to go back to the drawing board and do it again. So really at the core is making sure do you understand your audience, the new audience that you're going after? Always.

Yeah.

So what's behind the decision to leave a company like Nike? You're on the fast track there. You were there for 15 years working your way up the corporate ladder at an iconic company and one day you say, you know what, I'm ready to try something else. Like, what goes behind that decision?

A lot, definitely. It's scary mostly because at the time people did not really leave Nike. And so making that decision was scary because I didn't really have anybody to talk to about, how do you leave Nike? I mean, literally, I had one friend, I remember I called and I'm like, how did you leave? Like, what's the process to leave? That's how infrequent that was for me. It was about a few things. One is I had this fear of the 15 year mark. I was worried that if I had only done one big company for 15 years, then people would just think that I only know how to do one thing. And I didn't want that to be the case. So I felt like I had always in my mind this 15 year mark. Now I love the brand.

Kind of arbitrary. Is it 15 years?

It's just, yeah, I don't know. It was something that I put in my head.

I don't know, you know, the corporate version of the Seven Year Itch.

Because I had asked the 10 years, I'm like, okay, well fine, the next one is 15.

Right.

But you know, to this day, still love the brand. It's a great brand and I will never not love the brand But I realized that I could love the brand and not work there. And so that just. That was like, poof, a light bulb for me to realize I didn't have to work there. And then I wanted to learn more. I was in senior roles where I was pretty disconnected from the marketing mix. And I wanted to really understand more about the digital marketing environment and data at Nike. It was very separate. It wasn't part of my day to day. I mean, I would set strategy, but then there would be teams just making it happen, and I wasn't necessarily a part of that. And I wanted to be the person moving up the dial, up and down, and I knew I couldn't do it there. And then I wanted to get my hands dirty and I wanted to learn more. And then, you know, and the other thing that happened is there was a massive reorg and the categories went away. And I used to run Nike Sportswear and that new operating model didn't make sense to me.

You just felt like it was time.

It was time. It was time. So I went to a digital native startup to get my hands.

And how was that going from a big company to looks like it was Everlane. That must have been culture shock for you.

I was prepared. I talked to enough people to understand the landscape. But yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, you go from, like, complaining about your ops team to not having an ops team, you know, so I really liked it. I learned a lot. I mean, talk about getting your hands dirty. I mean, or sending an email about a new pair of jeans on the hottest day of the year. You know, the stuff that, like, I had never had to really think about. And tweaking daily, looking at numbers daily. Definitely weekly, but for sure, daily at that time, I definitely did more data crunching than I had that I had done before. So, no, it was a really, really good experience. And it's such a good brand. I love Everlanes. I was already a consumer before joining.

So what was behind the decision for you to join North Face? What about North Face excited you? And tell me about your role today and where your focus is.

I got worried that marketing wasn't right for me anymore when I left Everlane because a lot of the roles out there were so heavy growth and performance, and that's not who I am. It's part of what I do and I understand it and I can do it. That's not what I want to do every day. I want to set strategy. I want to think about who the consumer will be in three years. I want to do cool shit. You know, I want to have fun and actually build a brand. And there's not that many companies that are willing to invest in brand, which.

Creates an opportunity 100%.

And I'm seeing the pendulum swinging. I'm seeing now companies starting to say, okay, we're realizing we need to get back into that brand space.

Also, performance is much harder now with all the privacy changes that have been enacted by Google and Apple.

I'm super excited about that change. I mean, I think it's, it's also going to make the conversations with CFOs a lot easier. It's like, hey, we can't track this anymore so we're going to go do that.

It's very much cyclical because there was the email marketing era where everyone did it before there was direct ma. You have these kind of direct mediums. Programmatic was the most recent one. Then it kind of shifts back and I think you're always going to have that push and pull.

Absolutely. And I think joining the North Face allowed me to still do brand. And there's not that many companies in the world that are brands. They call themselves brands. They're not necessarily brands and not necessarily investing in brand. The North Faces. And that's why, I mean, it was a no brainer. The other thing is I'm at this stage in my career where it's a lot more about the people that I work with. And Nicole Otto, our brand president, was assembling a really killer team. And it was like, of course, of course I want to be a part of that team.

So what does it mean to be CMO of a company that is so brand focused? Like where are you spending your time and how do you define a North Face brand in that regard?

Yeah, I mean, when you think of the North Face, very often you think big mountain, big sky, Everest.

Right.

You're seeing somebody summiting.

Hiking tents.

Yeah, hiking tents. Or you see the beautiful snowboard line coming down the mountain. That's kind of like traditionally what it's been. And that's still in my head. When I think about the North Face, I definitely think about, you know, or the Yosemite North Face. And that's not going away. That still is, I believe, the DNA of the North Face. And that's still who we are. Exploration, adventure, Exploration, aspiration, adventure. The outdoors, human potential. Absolutely. It's still, it's at the core of who we are and what we do.

And to me it also translates to quality. Right. You have to be able to trust the product you know, it's not going to let you down if you're out in the middle of the mountain for sure.

Everything we do is athlete. We consider this athlete tested, expedition proven. So we have an athlete team. We have 150 athletes worldwide. They are the best in the outdoor space. They are the people who do the first descents, the first descents. They are snowboarders, they're trail runners. They test the products. They rely on the product to live, to survive. We actually give them product in the harshest conditions in the world.

You're in a snowstorm in the middle of a mountain and you're in one of your sleeping bags and tents and you're relying on the earth face to keep you warm and get you through the night.

Totally. Or you're hanging by on with one hand and you need to be able to really quickly open your zipper with the other to grab your mask or to make sure that that zipper opens when you did to open.

It's literally what could be life or death.

It's life or death. Yeah. So not for all of them, but, you know, in the most extreme sense, it is life or death. And so we have a responsibility. So to your point about quality, to your point about being what athletes need as they evolve as athletes also, and then after that figuring out, okay, great, now we've served the edge, how do we actually trickle that down to the mass? Right, because maybe the mass doesn't need the pocket where Conrad Anchor needs the pocket.

Right.

But that's kind of the case with everything. You see the commercials for the Jeep going over the rocks on the river, and people aren't doing that. People are driving in the suburbs of the mall. So that's very common.

Very common. But you need to be inspired by the use case. Needs to be inspired by the most extreme condition. And we innovate for the most extreme condition and we design for the most extreme condition. And then from there, yeah, we translate.

That to the consumer, how you translate it to a broader audience.

So again, we start with performance innovation, and then after that we kind of. I talk about dials a lot, but it's like when it's about the extreme condition, we dial up the performance innovation and maybe dial down the style. There's still style, but we dial it down when it's actually same jacket, but for use in the street or in New York City.

Because it had become a fashion symbol as well. North Face jackets.

Yeah.

Was that by accident, the North Face become sort of a lifestyle fashion brand by accident, or is that by Design.

Well, it's before my time, so I'll say, you know, and at this point, everything is hearsay. Right. I've heard so many stories. I think it's a little bit by accident. What is not an accident is the product was designed to serve a very specific condition, cold weather. And they were designed a certain way with certain color because it looked good. So that's purposeful.

Right.

Those are two pretty good attributes for a winter jacket.

Exactly. And now the fact that, you know, the street basically adopted it organically and saw the jacket and decided to wear it, and it culturally, it picked up from that. It became an icon. It is an iconic piece of outerwear. Talking about the Nuptse jacket here specifically, I think that growth, that organic growth is a little bit, you know, once the consumer takes it, they make it an icon. As a brand, you can't make something out of it.

Yeah.

Why? I also think that consumers smell authenticity, and they smell the opposite. They smell when people are trying to fake it or buy their way in. So just the same way that Nike was able to gain it in categories, it was built within the realm of authenticity. And consumers kind of felt that, both literally and figuratively, and they gotta adopt.

It a hundred percent. And we're seeing it's cyclical as well. Right. So we're seeing. Somebody dubbed it, like, what do they call it? Core. It's like you're seeing the adoption of performance innovation in style and fashion on the street. It's not new. The Nupseed happened. I mean, this was the first jacket where people were wearing on Everest. Right. This happened with an upseat. This happened for us with Steep Deck, where everybody thought that was the coolest. It was extreme ski gear and people were just wearing it in New York City. So it's cyclical. This keeps on coming back. Thankfully, your product looks good and people want to wear it. But it's not necessarily developed intentionally for the street. It's developed for the mountain, is developed for the outdoors. And it gets adopted organically in the street. But that's how you know you have icons. That's how you know you're doing well, is when the consumer decides what is going to work and what is going to stand the test of time or not. All we can do is just do the best we can. Best design, best innovation, and really hope that it picks up.

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So as CMO, I would imagine one part of your role is also understanding who your consumer is and working on consumer segmentation and understanding the different groups that may be attracted to different products and how to effectively communicate that. How do you go about doing that? Who are the core consumers that you have?

Chief Product officer joined at the same time as I did. And the first thing that we agreed upon is to kind of move away from consumer segmentation. We actually work with mindsets. So we've developed four mindsets.

So psychographics versus demographics.

Yes, in a way. I mean, it's more about behaviors and intent. And so I always use the example we have. One of our athletes is somebody named Jimmy Chin, who is very famous in his own right. He's an award winning director as well. But I always use his example. It's like he climbs Everest and in that moment in time, he has a certain mindset. He has an intent, he has a purpose. And he needs gear for that particular moment in time. Then he might go on a surfing trip with his friends and he needs to be geared up for that. And we need to surf him when he's in that mindset, which is maybe more community oriented. And then he really cares about conservation and he goes to Patagonia and does efforts over there. We want to be there to serve that mindset. And then he moves on the red carpet. And we also want to be able to serve that mindset when really he's more worried about looking good. That's true for everybody. We all have those mindsets. Now, it might not be Everest, it might be another obsessive or kind of like more intense mindset. But we have those, we all have those four mindsets. So it's really a question of like, how do we serve those mindsets versus serving. Before we had like, I think we had like nine consumer segments or something. And you would have like the extreme skier.

This is Peggy. She's 34. She lives in the Midwest. She has two kids, right?

Yeah, yeah. So serving the mindsets allow us to serve more people, but also really think through our intent. Also how do we want people to feel? What state or what behavior are they Trying to fulfill when they're walking into this door or when they are buying or browsing this online, then let's make sure that creatively, content wise, product wise, we're actually serving that mindset. Of course we have segmentation as well because we can't do media buys without segmentation, et cetera. But it's not the start, it's a tactic.

The creative brief probably starts with the mindset versus the demo.

A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean it's very hard to inspire, whether it's a product designer or a brand designer around like Peggy's 30.

Yeah.

Many brands still try to do that.

Oh, majority. I don't see it. And so that's why we moved away.

Makes a lot of sense in terms of channels and ways that you're getting these messages out. What do you have your eye on in 2024 with all the changes we've seen in the media landscape?

I mean, you know, it's interesting. We're in the usual channel like that. You know, everybody's kind of playing in the same channels. Of course social and social shopping is still there.

Are you seeing TikTok emerge as a shopping channel?

Yeah, TikTok. I mean, we're still very big on Instagram or Meta. We're still there.

Are you selling direct?

Yeah.

You are?

Okay, gotcha.

Yeah. So I mean, we do have wholesale partnership, of course.

Yeah.

But we do have a pretty big DTC arm. So in those instances we sell direct.

Which right now I think is. It really gives brands a huge distinct advantage because you're collecting that first party data. But the model your audiences in way that other companies could.

Yeah. I mean, it also does require on the back end that we're able to track everything, but.

Yes, exactly.

Yes.

Which is a whole nother thing.

I actually think that we're getting back into a more of an analog space right now. I think consumers want to feel things more and not just digital.

And that fits very well with your business because you're all about experiences.

Yeah, it does. It's also retail, but you guys have.

A really good retail experience footprint.

Our experiences are getting better depending on the market.

I mean, if you're comparing with Apple, it's one thing, but if you're comparing with most of the apparel category, putting luxury aside, I think it delivers on what the consumer expects for sure.

I mean, we're definitely not on the innovation phase of retail right now, which I think is the aspiration that we actually are more innovative in stores.

It's hard though, with apparel. Margins have you guys ever thought about services or other areas tangential to get into the consumers?

It's top of mind, 100%.

North Face could be a travel company.

It could be.

I mean, there's so much we can do. There's so much progress. I mean, right now what we do is we have partners. We have great partners that actually offer things like that. And so we actually do give access to our members, but it's not ours. Those are questions that we ask ourselves. But we have fantastic partners. We also have a very big loyalty base. So we have the Explorer Pass, which is a pretty sizable membership. And through that people do get access. Like we take people on their first experience for their first ski experience or their first trail experience, et cetera. So that's definitely something going into 2024 that we want to keep doing. And then, you know, media, it's interesting. I think we're very big on content. We do a lot of longer form content, not long form, you know, features, but we do 30, 40 minute films. Yeah, a lot. I mean, it's been a part of our DNA forever and it makes sense. I mean, we have athletes that go places where if we don't have a camera there, nobody will know they went. So we make a lot of films. We fund expeditions every year. We have some really big expeditions actually coming in 2024.

Any that you get to go on?

No. I mean, actually I had one opportunity, but it was like literally next week or something and you know, you're gone for like and go to base camp of Everest and it's like, I mean, I, I want to go, I'll do it one day. But you know, you're taking a month out of your life to do it, which I can't. I'd love to, but I can't. But eventually, eventually I'll do it. All that to say, you know, we're looking at content and looking at how distribution of content, looking at how we broadcast content. That's for me a big shift I want to make in 2024. Because right now we make a lot of films. They go to film festivals and it's great. They win awards and then they go on YouTube, which they just live on YouTube.

The question is, how's it driving the business? How's it connecting with your consumers and.

How do more people get to see it? That's top of mind also for me in 2024.

It's interesting because what I think you're going to see in 24 is that there's going to be a dearth of content because you had the writers strike, people are going to find it was less and less on TV and brands can step in and fund it and give consumers stuff to watch and engage 100%.

And also it doesn't have to be brand content, but it can be connected to the brand and that can be very interesting.

No one wants to watch a 40 minute commercial.

No. But also nobody knows how to make a 40 minute commercial.

Right, exactly. So I have a question for you. This is sort of a little bit of a tangent, but, you know, we've seen this year a lot of brands getting behind social issues and really start during the pandemic and back then every brand has some say on what was going on. Do you think brands have responsibility to take a really hardcore stance in social issues or is that something you think they should step out of and just be a business?

So one, I do think brands need to be a bit more personal and therefore there are things we need to speak about, but it has to be things you can authentically speak about.

Right.

So just coming out and saying, I stand for this, where either internally or like, if you've never done anything about it, don't do it. I think there's a fear that brands and I, I see it, we all have this fear of like, oh, this is happening in the world. Should I say something? Everybody else is saying something. I should probably say something. But if I don't say something, people are gonna. You have to go back to your what's true to your brand.

Not what might be true to the head of marketing or the CEO, but the brand.

Oh, everybody else is doing this. I should probably say something. You have to do what's right for your brand. You have to go back to your values. You have to go back to your mission statement. You have to go back to your stance on things. You have to go back to your internal behaviors. But it's hard. I mean, it is a fine line. Cancel culture is real, Trolls are real.

We live in a highly polarized society.

It's like I feel the amount of crisis that have emerged, you know, from a brand standpoint, like, I used to never talk about crisis management. Yeah, It's a big part of my job now.

Just because somebody tweets something, somebody says something, there's, there's concerted efforts.

Also. We see a lot of movements and groups that just go out and blast things.

Target brands and go at them for whatever reason.

Yeah, right.

I mean, you know, pride last year was an intense two, three weeks for us. That's just one of them.

Any decisions that you need to make, a cmo, people are looking at you for the answer.

Yeah. I mean, the good thing is, you know, yes, it's me, but it's also, you know, of course we have a fantastic brand president. I work back with the president of the North Face. Depending on how big it gets, the board gets involved and the CEO. We have the CEO of ef. It depends on the scale, the magnitude. But yes, very often it starts with, like, the team looking at it. It's like, okay, can we handle it or not? And then they'll bring it to me, and then we'll make the call, and then if I need to elevate it, I will.

That's something they don't teach you in CMO school. Not like there is CMO school.

No. You just kind of learn on the spot. And there's crisis and crisis. I mean, we've had athletes who have accidents. That's a very big crisis for us. And then there's, you know, I mentioned pride or somebody said something. Every single case is different. There's almost no single blueprint that you can really apply. Always have a different situation.

So wrapping up here, Sophie, I mean, you've had a really fun career being in Nike and now this new role at North Face. When you look back at your career, what are some of the things that you think you did right to set you up for being in a position where you can actually choose and do the things that you want to do? I mean, you said Nike was great, but you wanted to try digital. And then there were things that you loved about North Face. And it's a luxury to be able to choose where you want to go at such a high level, you know, in the corporate world. What do you think that you did right that enabled you to have that type of freedom of flexibility and choice?

I don't know if it's because I did it right, but I do think I was lucky enough to have great mentors. I do think mentors are very important and you should seek them out. Too many people, I think, think that they can do it on their own or. I'm going to sound old, but I see this generation now who just, like, they don't want to hear, they don't want to listen, they don't want to learn from anyone. And it's just you can't watch a.

YouTube video and figure it out on their own.

Right.

There are people who actually have fantastic experience, and you should probably listen to them even if you don't like what they have to say or even if.

You don't accept their advice, at least hear it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So mentorship, I think, has been huge for me. And then I think, like, I have a lot of ego, so I put a lot of value in who I am and how I feel. And so sometimes if it doesn't feel right, I definitely follow my guts.

Takes confidence to do that, though.

Yeah, it's a little bit of my personality as well. But, I mean, you know, leaving Nike was a big deal. Financially is a big deal, leaving a place like Nike, but that's how I felt. And so sometimes you just go with your guts. And, you know, when I left Everlane, I didn't have a job. I didn't have the north face lined up. I left, and I was like, I need. I'll figure it out. Easier to do at this stage of my career, obviously. But, yeah, I'm confident. I mean, I have imposter syndrome at times, for sure. I don't understand why people want to hear me, necessarily. But in terms of my career and the things I can control, I'm much more attuned to what I think I need in order to be happy or in order to just keep on growing. But growth, ultimately growth is very important. Like the idea of being content and just stagnating like that scares me. Gotta keep on moving.

Yep.

And that's what drives you. Is there a mantra that you like to live by or something that comes to mind?

I mean, I have one, but it's more to help me mentally. It's like every day because I have a hard time getting up. And so my dad growing up would always say, the day belongs to those who wake up early.

Imagine how you define early.

Right, Exactly. But figuratively and exactly and literally. So I think about that a lot. Because early adoption is being early. Right. I think about that a lot. Mostly now with the metaverse and all that, I'm like, oh, I see those opportunities, and we're not going after it. But that's early.

Yeah.

AI, everything is happening right now.

Yeah. He used to say that to wake me up. That's kind of like, what's the start? But I've kind of taken in to actually mean many other things. You know, you want to be first to the worm. Right.

Well, thanks for sharing that, and thanks for joining today. It was a great conversation, and I really appreciate it, and I can't wait for our audience to hear it. So on behalf of Susie Ivy Team, thanks again to Sophie Bambook, chief marketing Officer at the North Face for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Till next time. See you soon everyone. Take care.

The Speed of Culture is brought you to to you by Susie as part of the Ad Week Podcast Network and a Guest Creator Network. You can listen subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting Adweek.com podcasts to find out more about Suzy, head to Susie.com and make sure to search for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google Podcasts or anywhere else podcasts are found. Click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Suzy, thanks for listening.

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