How Powerful Insights Beat Shiny Tactics with Gayle Troberman, CMO of iHeartMedia

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Audio is growing crazy fast, right on a huge base, which is kind of the exciting part of it. Obviously I'm a little biased, but you know, broadcast radio is still reaching 9 out of 10Americans because it's live and it's human and it's unscripted. And it's not just a place to hear music. It's a place to actually have a conversation and not be alone.

To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move in an ever increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up. Welcome to the Speed of Culture Up. Today we're going to be speaking with the Chief marketing officer of iHeartMedia, a dear friend of mine, Gail Troberman. Gary, thanks so much for joining today.

Ah, it's great to be here, man.

Yeah, it's great to be here at the Shiny iHeartMedia podcast studio. If you've never been to iHeart's office, it's just really just an incredible site in terms of how they built this out. And it really is a great reflection of the iHeart brand. We're gonna quickly start by getting to know a little bit about you. Gayle, you were Chief Creative Officer at Microsoft from 1996 to 2012, where we were closely together. And then you moved on to become Chief Marketing Ideas officer at IPG Media Brands. And then finally, for the last seven years, you've been here at iHeartMedia's chief marketing office. So tell us a little bit about your career journey and kind of the ups and downs through that.

Sure. I always answer this question with, you know, some people, I think particularly younger generations today are all about planning. Right. You have career plans, you have these visions. You, you know, you're going to do this to get there, to do this. I've always been of the stumble, stumble. Well, follow great people and what interests you. And bizarrely, that's how I kind of landed. I landed in advertising because I loved all of the TV shows about it. I thought it was fascina, you know, Bewitched to Mad Men to back in the day, 30 something and looked like a cool creative field. I had to check a box on college apps. I was like, oh yeah, advertising, that sounds fun, right? And that kind of landed me in that major. You know, I started in the ad business in New York, then we did a pitch was wasn't my finest work, but I guess we were smart enough to not win the Microsoft business way back when in the PR days and I met Mitch Matthews and a couple other people from Microsoft through that and then in the early Microsoft years they stayed in touch and they convinced me to take a big leap, which was I had barely been on the Internet and I was moving to Seattle where I'd been once to work on the Internet and figure out initial marketing campaigns for all the Internet startups at Microsoft, which was crazy fun, I'm sure.

And I was kind of with you through some of those trials and tribulations. I read recently that Microsoft is one of only one of the top 20 companies most valued in the world that still is one of the top 20 today from two decades ago. So given what you've experienced at Microsoft, what about that organization have given them such staying power?

Yeah, the Microsoft culture particularly, I'm obviously been gone for a little bit of time but it was just such an amazing culture of make big bold bets, resource them and measure them, be willing to walk away from the ones that aren't working or don't pay off. But so much of I think in this moment of the great resignation and people changing jobs. One of the big secret sauces at Microsoft, and I'm sure you experienced the good and bad of this was the company hired crazy smart, passionate people who were driven at all costs. It wasn't an easy culture by any means. It could be brutal on any given day because everyone was so passionate and really wanted to win.

Especially during the Ballmer era. Right. Because things had changed.

And it was a culture where you could. You passionately fought for what you believed, and the people who got to decide decided, and you made the bet and you all locked arms and played it through and you measured aggressively and learned. But it was a culture of hiring really great people and empowering them. And I think those are core principles. I know I worked with Satya very closely for a minute in one of my errors there, and he very much is of that Microsoft culture. Maybe a little probably kinder in general, gentler than perhaps it was back in the day. But it's still about crazy smart, passionate people. Resource them, empower them, and then hold.

Them accountable and have clear and distinct goals. I think Microsoft's been so laser focused on their core business lines when they veered off, whether it's like with the Zune, remember that? Or so many products that just, like, didn't wind those phones, they didn't really hit. They weren't afraid to shut it down and keep moving.

Yeah. Even as much money as it was invested in some of those. Right. They're really hard business decisions. Right. It's always hard for all of us sometimes to walk away. Yeah.

And then you moved over to ipg, and frankly, I don't really remember your time at ipg. How long were you there for? And what was it like? Why was it brief? What was it like being on the agency side of things? Because that's.

Well, it was. I think it was kind of the best. Worst job offer ever. Right. It was Matt Seiler, you know, who I love, called me. And we had just switched agencies. So we had basically just fired them and hired Publicis. And I had just resigned. I just left Microsoft. It was a regime change. It was time.

Sure.

And I was trying to figure out what to do with my life. Matt called me and he's like, hey, we've got this media pitch. He's like, you just let us go. He's like, we really aren't set up well for this. He's like, we're probably five of five in the race right now. He's like, what if you came and consulted and ran this giant global media pitch for us and did everything you would have bought? And he's like, I'll get out of your way. We'll give you the resources. Come reimagine.

How'd that work out?

And I was like, that's kind of crazy. And there's a great story with it. My next door neighbor at the time was Ben Gibbard from Death Cab for Cutie Huge fan. And he had just had a big breakup with Zoe Deschenet, and we were both now suddenly home all day. And he was playing like three sad notes on the piano that would ooze into our loft. And I was like, I gotta get out of here. And so I was like, all right, I'll come consult. And it was really fun being on the other side of a pitch. It was an amazing learning because it looks so easy when you're judging, of course, versus what it takes to really restructure and reimagine integrated marketing around the glob globe across multiple agencies in an ecosystem. And we did some really good work. IPG won a chunk of that business, not all of it. And so then we turned it into a real job, but it wasn't quite a clear job. So I think after a while, I had shaken things up a little bit and realized it's easy to judge the agency world. It's very hard to live it.

I think all clients should work at an agency before they sit and know how much work goes into it. And what's interesting in running an agency for so many years is often you win business not when pitching the idea that's really best for the client, but the idea that's best for the pitch. We called it pitch candy. It's like, yes, this idea actually will move their business, but is the end buyer really motivated by long term business success or do they just want to get in one of the trade publications, Right? Do they just want to get a promotion? Is there right or wrong a lot of the ways how the world works? And now you have some people at companies that really do believe in the business, but other people, it's like, am I really passionate about toothpaste or actually passionate about being able to get a promotion so I can get a bigger house for my family? And when you weigh those two things, those motivations, sometimes it impacts what you pitch.

And it's even, you know, I talk about this a lot in the audio landscape today, right? Because audio, you know, radio is obviously huge. Been around for a while. You know, podcasting is relatively new, and now there's, you know, social audio and, you know, talk about, you know, we're getting into metaverse ideas and things like that. And we've seen it through the years, you know, growing up in early digital, like, there's always new, shiny stuff, of course, and I don't even know that it's as conscious for decision makers in the ecosystem. But our human bias comes into play all the time, right? It's why products like Suzy are important, right? To gut check our biases more frequently and faster. Because as humans, we think the coolest idea, it may not even be as malicious as now. I want to get in the press and I'm, you know, it's honestly like, I think a lot of times it's very hard as decision makers, marketers, whether you're client side or agency or media company, like, you want to do the cool stuff, you go into marketing, not to crunch numbers. Right. People go into marketing because it's kind of cool and sexy and creative, and then you want to do the new next things. And yeah, they matter. But like you said, sometimes it's the tried and true, the most efficient. We have so many clients who rely on broadcast radio because of its scale and efficiency, and it just drives growth.

And you can optimize predictably. Yeah, there's no benchmarking if you're doing something new every single time. So the agency ecosystem, in a lot of ways, people who are on the brand side sort of are code it to do those new things, to be innovative. When the reality is, if you do a campaign, what you should really do is do the campaign again with the learnings that you have from the first time and keep getting better and better, whatever that thing is. And you'll own that thing where a lot of times people will do, oh, I'm going to do a podcast. That didn't work. Let's move on to the metaverse. Let's move on to this. Because I think, obviously we live in a world of Instagram and big companies that report every quarter, and that's just kind of the world we live in. And that's kind of the balancing act. And speaking of sort of a balancing act in a new world, now you are here at iHeartMedia, which has been kind of a company that, first of all, I've always been fascinated with. Just because in starting Mr. Youth, MTV was sort of like the company. And Bob Pittman started mtv and I was followed his career so much through the years. And then once he came here and kind of created this new conglomerate, iHeart, I really had my eye on it. And then you joined and I had even a greater interest in the company. Tell us a little bit about your journey here at iheartra.

Sure. It was another one of those great job offers that wasn't a job offer. You know, I love a good challenge. And I had met Bob when I was at ipg and he called me one day and again, I was sort of between things I was gonna take the summer off, chill on the island in the northwest, figure out my life, you know, someday I'll get to that. And he called me and he goes, hey, you know, I just started. Took over here as CEO at what was then Clear Channel. And he said, you know, I kind of have this. This crazy idea. I want to float it by you. I'd love to pick your brain. And he's like, you know, I'm thinking, like, we need to reimagine the company and the brand. And I'm thinking, maybe we should change the name of the company and really rebrand from clear channel to iHeartMedia. And he's like, We've got the iHeartRadio app and the iHeartRadio brand, and it's really catching. And he's like, you know, and he walked me through kind of his initial thinking, and he's like, so he's like, I'll call you at the same time tomorrow. He's like, give me a day of your brain and see what you think about it. And then I called him, did some work. We, the next day, I talked to him, and it was kind of what I love about iHeart. And Microsoft had become very big and deliberate and with a lot at stake globally, and we'd become slower. And Bob, one day, he's like, yeah, I thought about that. We debated it, and he's like, I think I'm gonna do it. He's like, will you come figure this out for me? He's like, I'm gonna get everyone, all of my leadership team in a room on Monday, and this was like, a Friday. And he's like, and we're gonna go through a list of every decision, every place our brand appears and what we change it, get rid of it.

Wow.

And we went through a spreadsheet of thousands and thousands of line items as a leadership team, made every decision, ballpark costs. What is it? The sign on top of the building, the billboard here, the elevators in these offices, Every single place the brand appeared. And we made a decision. Boom. And we rebranded the company in something like, I think, six weeks.

And that. That's how brands are made.

And it was super fun.

Detail matters. They talk about how people answer the phone or what. The business cards at every little touchpoint becomes the brand. And sometimes you have to get in the weeds.

Yeah, exactly.

And knowing you, I know that you like being strategic, but you also like getting your hands dirty. You like talking about.

Yeah, I like a line job because it's where you learn, right? You don't want to do it every day, but you got to get in, particularly I think, when things are new, 100% right. You got to get in the weeds. One of the questions you had asked me was one of those big learning moments. And when I first took over advertising for the whole company at Microsoft, it blew people's minds. And to me it was the simplest thing in the world, was there'd been sort of the agencies of record pitching one big, massive, important B2B campaign for 18 months. They just kept coming in and nothing was landing. And they'd go, go back, go back to the drawing board. And we just weren't marketing like in a big above the line way. And I just started and it was like my first week and you know, so they brought in some new agencies and the existing agencies was that Crispin Hoarder.

Is that where the genius was? Yeah, the existing agency stuff was, oh, wow, okay.

And it was kind of like, we have to go to Big Steve and everybody on like Tuesday, so I guess we should go. And I was like, but there's this genius. And they're like, oh, but it's not right for us and they don't get us and it's too off. And I was like, but we have a whole weekend. And I remember talking to Mitch, the CMO at the time, and I was like, well, what if I got in a plane and went and worked with them all weekend? Monday we'll come back and if we're there, great. We can bring both ideas. And if we're not there, no harm, we'll go with the, you know, the okay idea. And I was like, you know, and I'm so glad I did it. You know, it's funny, I'm still great friends with Rose and Tide, you know, like. But the thing that I see a lot in my career and a lot of the best moments I've had is we broke down the walls between agency and client. They let me into the workroom, we stayed up till midnight, two in the morning, you know, then they'd be like, go away and come back at 8am and then rip it apart and then give us some time. And we worked together for 72 hours.

And that's, I mean, that is how.

That's how it should be, right?

How it should be. I mean, we talk about a lot the Hippo, which is the highest paid person's opinion. And my experience is like, agency goes behind these walls and they come up with this incredible idea or what they think is incredible, and then they Pitch the hippo. And during the meeting, the hippo shows up late, sometimes they're on their phone, which is to drive me crazy.

Right.

And ultimately it's like your champion's like, I don't know, it matters what the hippo said, whoever that is. And a lot of times their decision isn't made on data. It could be based on what their daughter told them when they were dropping off at school or TV show they heard. And that's gonna basically jade their opinion in a certain direction, which may or may not be right for the business. But there's no data behind that decision.

Exactly. You know, and I think that's the challenge we all have with creative ideas. Right. That's why creative testing, I think is so interesting, right?

Absolutely.

It's such an interesting space. We're doing more and more of it with audio. We're trying to do more and more of it with you guys in audio because, yeah, I think just getting a gut check like testing doesn't tell you all the answers, but it prevents the disaster. And sometimes it helps you find a spark of genius you might have missed.

Absolutely. I'm often asked, what's the ROI of research? I'm like, well, ROI of a seatbelt. Right. It only matters if you really need it. Right? Yep.

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Adweek so we're gonna get into our next section called Culture Watch. As you know, this podcast is called the Speed of Culture. And Suzy is a tool that really enables insights and research at the speed of culture. And we're gonna ask you a couple questions, one of which you've already answered. So we're gonna jump into the next three in classic Gale Trove men form. She's making her rules up as we go along, and I can roll with the punches. So I'm gonna ask you three questions and we'll touch upon the one that you just answered as well. And just answer quickly in 30 seconds how you feel about this particular topic and then we'll dive in. Question number one is, what do you think the fastest growing industry will be in the next few years? And why?

Sure. I mean, I think audio is growing crazy fast, right? On a huge base, which is kind of the exciting part of it. Obviously. I'm a little biased, of course, but broadcast radio is still reaching 9 out of 10Americans because of it's live and it's human and it's unscripted. And it's not just a place to hear music. It's a place to actually have a conversation and not be alone. It's a really bizarre business most people don't understand. So that's why I think with all with the world's music in my hand right now on this phone, we've certainly seen people listen in their cars, they listen on their smart speakers, they listen on their laptops, on their phones, on their watches, on TVs. But we're seeing listening continues to grow and to more types of content. And I think in this moment where, you know, I think the promise of digital was it was going to unite us all in a kumbaya lovely. The world is connected. And God, what we're seeing is the opposite. Right? It's brought out our worst selves. It's become a place that makes you feel worse, not better. And, you know, I think that's why you're seeing a lot of content that's live and human companionship. Conversation media seems to be growing everywhere. And I think that's why we're seeing this massive new podcast rocket ship grow. Right? Podcasting is really similar. It's most mostly human and unscripted. The other thing I think that's fueling audio growth, particularly podcasting growth, is I think, and you were kind of way ahead of the understanding millennials with Mr. Youth back in the day. I think we really, as marketers missed and most content companies misunderstood millennials. We kept talking about short attention spans, but we forgot we were talking about the most curious, disinterested, educated generation in the US Connected and educated and interested. Right? So we were going, oh, 140 characters. You can only handle 15 seconds of my advertising. And yet they're listening to three hour podcasts about revisionist.

They're binge watching 20 shows on Netflix.

Exactly. Entire seasons of smart, interesting content. So, you know, that's why I think podcasting has really filled a void, particularly for that millennial audience. Right. Who are smart and interested and curious. So I think we're gonna see Aud just continue and wireless headphones. Now your ears are connected to the grid. So think about that. We were consuming most all our content through our eyes, and now our ears are connected.

Yep. So it's like, look at, I mean, people think AirPods are gonna be the future of the smartphone. Yeah. And you know, it's the one wearable device that's really taken on in a true utilitarian way.

Exactly.

Consumers, I mean, I forget they're in my ears. I wear them the entire day and it creates such utility. I never thought. And it's all based on all.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So that's why I think audio is destined for continued growth and sustainability. But most marketers don't understand much about it. So that's the opportunity.

What do you think will be the fastest growing product or product category in the next few years?

Yeah, I think the obvious answer of the week has to be Metaverse. But what that means, I think it's like saying Internet back in the mid-90s. What exactly does that mean? I think we're all in a learning phase at iHeart. We've made some announcements. We're gonna a lot of the success we've had in our events business. So we do hundreds of events from the big jingle balls to small local events, music events, concerts. And we're going to start bringing events into the metaverse so we can connect fans and artists and brands in some new ways. And we're going to start learning. So we're going to go where consumers are. We've announced we're going to go into Roblox. We'll be creating I heartland where now we can bring without all the physical world costs of what it costs to put on a giant festival or a live event in the real world. I think we can do even more interactive and more engaging opportunities that bring the fan closer and closer to the.

Artist and the community. Around the artist and the community. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Exactly.

And I know we were talking just before this interview just about and this was your answer for the fast growing consumer trend. You talked about basically the connection of real world and digital. And I was talking to Rich Kleiman, another person who we interviewed for the podcast, who runs 35 Venture and Kevin Durant's business partner. And he said the same thing. He basically said, you know, and you guys both share that. You guys play in the entertainment world, him more in the sports, although he doesn't music and you and music. And there's this notion of being able to go to a physical event, being able to experience in the metaverse or digitally being able to buy tokens that kind of get you access to both, that there's something there that's going to be Unlocked, that's going to be transformational. And the question is, when's it going to come out, what is it going to be, how's it going to be adopted, et cetera.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I mean creatively, it's just in the virtual world, who knows? I think everything's possible. I think blockchain commerce is going to be real and I think we're learning fast on the NFT space. That's the other place we've been dabbling. So when you go to an iHeart event, you want to engage with the event and a simple thing like a QR code. Who would have thought QR codes would become so important?

Well, the pandemic, but they're so accessible.

Yeah. Now that we know how to grab menus, we were shocked. We did our first sort of QR code, sort of virtual upgrades, rewards, experience, loyalty program at the iHeartradio Music Festival last fall. And you know, at the daytime stage where all the like hottest pop stars who are just breaking are there and it's tons and tons of teens, I was shocked. Right. People entered, they walked through like a QR canyon, they did all their step and repeat pictures on their way into the venue. And about 2, 2/3 of the attendees grabbed the code to enter, to win upgrades, to get free stuff from brands, to get a meet and greet with one of the artists. So all of a sudden what used to be like somebody on a mic trying to scream from the stage into a loud arena and crowd, now everybody can engage and participate in that show and that experience. We have a two way communication going now at scale with a simple thing like a QR code.

And that is such a sea change from when we were growing up. It's like whatever you want to hear. You either have to buy the cassette tape for $20 and beg your parents for it or whatever Clear Channel or whatever is called, before that was playing on heavy rotation and that was it. Like you didn't really have the choice at all. And now it's the complete opposite. Right. And there's just limitless choice. And within that limitless choice, you have communities where you feel comfortable and you feel this artist represents who I am.

Exactly.

And if you can layer. Tribes, Right, Tribes, right. And if you can layer and podcasts, I would argue is another point of that. And I think if you can layer on top some type of currency, currency, community, content, accessibility altogether, then you have people that basically are getting such value in an area where they feel connected in this world that's become increasingly polarized it's so true.

When we do so much work with the artists, their fan armies are insane.

I know.

And you're right when you say podcasting, because a super fan of stuff, you should know, they listen to every episode over and over again. They subscribe, they follow, they show up at live events. The podcasters are becoming the rock stars, building these new communities of listeners.

It's so true.

And it's so different than, like, you know, those of us who might be, like, watch a movie or a TV series. Like, there is something about the connectedness of these, like, audio tribes. And they want more. Right. They're, like, rabid. And so that's where things in the virtual world. Right. Become so exciting.

Absolutely. Yeah. I was in Las Vegas for a Philadelphia Eagles game and I'm a huge fan and I, I was, I listened to this podcast that a couple guys do about the team, and I was with my friends in Las Vegas and I like, all of a sudden got starstruck with this random middle aged dude, ran away from my friends. Like, who is that? I'm like, oh, he's the host of my favorite Eagles podcast. And they were making fun of me, right? But no, it's like I was running towards, like, Michael Jordan.

But you feel like, you know those people, right? Like, a lot of our, our broadcast radio personalities too, they always say it like, you know, people ask Ryan Seacrest all the time, like, dude, like, you know, you're on Idol and you got your own morning show and why do you get up every morning and three hours of live radio, like, it's a hard gig. And he's always like, because those fans keep me real. So they're like, you know, he'll be standing with Katy Perry and people will come up trembling, like, katy, can I get a picture? And they'll be like, oh, Ryan, would you take it? How's that cold you had? Right, right. And they feel like they know these people. Like, the intimacy is so different in audio, I think, than the artifice of sort of screens and video.

Yeah, yeah. I want to wrap with one point that you were talking about earlier in terms of. So you flew to New York to meet with Ty and Rosemary, who are two great creatives who are at JWT and then went to go found their own agency. And there's something about this idea that you loved, right? And there was a safe idea. And ultimately, like, in our industry, everyone throws around the word insights, right? Insight this, insight that. But to me, you know, an insight is something that, like, to me, the Most insightful person ever is Jerry Seinfeld. Right. You watch all the shows and the humor was from that. Whatever that one funny insight was.

Or I could quiet on the true. It was an observation, Right? Yeah.

And it's like. It's an insight that hits with people. It strikes a chord inside them and makes you really want to open your eyes to whatever story they're trying to tell. Is that why you thought it was special?

Exactly. And we did end up working with JWT on that campaign. And we ended up winning a Cannes lion for that campaign. It was a B2B campaign. And the insight was really simple. The world was changing because of technology. And all of the different siloed divisions of a company were finally going to have to work together. Together. Right. And this is going back, you know, whatever, 10, 12 years ago. Right. But the marketing and IT. Right. Tearing down the walls. Yeah. And the CEO and HR and all of a sudden technology was bringing these people together to force them to make decisions, to plan, to communicate. And that was the insight. Like we have to break down these walls. And the campaign was called because it's everybody's business. Yeah, I remember that. And when everyone is a stakeholder, you think about things really differently. Right. And it was a genius campaign. It was also beaut. But it was really hearing from those different sides of the business. And those were conversations that weren't happening. They were very, very siloed. And we kind of gave voice to them at the scale of national media in a really unique way.

And often to wrap this, often the insight, a great insight flies in the face of a shiny object.

So true.

Right. So the idea is not the medium. The idea is the insight and what you build on it. And then it could be, don't buy.

The thing, have an insight, understand something about your customers and then fig. Figure out which things deliver on that insight. Right.

But yeah, and that's hard work. That anything is hard work. People will skip over to the fun stuff. It's just that's how they are. And that's why I think you see a lot of not great work out there. Companies that don't know how to continue to build their brand, et cetera. You know, it's definitely an opportunity. So this has been amazing. We covered a lot of ground. One final question I have for you is, you know, in a fast place world, and you're going east coast, west coast, and running around with iHeart, what do you feel is worth slowing down? But for you, what slows Gail Troberman down?

What slows me down age. Other than that, I think one of the things Covid was such a learning moment for all of us as humans. Right. And one of the things that I got back into was just, I think some of the amazing content that's out there. So you were talking about the ability to just slow down and actually watch a great film, actually pay attention and watch, not multitask, but actually stop and consume really quality content. So that's something I want to keep doing. And similar on the life side, I think we say we all missed human contact and connection. I think what we really, at least in our lives, what we missed so much wasn't all the travel and the giant events and stuff. They're fun. But what I missed was just a few friends and a great meal and that conversation. And we're really trying to keep that and bring that back. Just people you love at a dinner table having a meal and a conversation and making time for that, you know, that's fantastic. That's the most important thing.

So to wrap things in our last episode with Rich Kleinman, partner and co founder of 35 Ventures, we talked about how brands should partner with influencers to create content. And Rich wanted to know if consumers thought that influencers should be more like rent an ambassador for a brand, or if they should be kind of there for the long term. Because what we find a lot is, is that brands kind of stick to influencers for a short period of time and go on to the next thing and they don't really be connected the same way that maybe Michael Jordan was connected to Nike and, you know, so. But what we actually found is that some consumers actually thought about a quarter thought that influencers should stick with brands for a short period of time and others should be for the long period. So kind of indifferent there, but that was a great question, Rich, but why we have you, Gail, what is one question you want to ask consumers on the Suzy platform about anything that we touched upon on today?

I'm obviously passionately curious about all things audio, so I'd love to learn more from consumers about, you know, and I have kind of my theories and certainly a bunch of our own research, but I'd love to hear more from consumers about why they listen. Right. Why they listen and, you know, why they listen to different types of content. Like, I'd love to get to that idea of do you listen to be connected? Do you listen to not be alone? Right, right. Are you listening for the content itself, for the ideas? Are you listening to learn to be entertained? I Think it's really interesting to keep understanding why people connect to audio in a different way and it impacts our brain differently. So the more insight I get about that, the better. We are at iheart.

Yeah. And talking about consumer insights. I mean, since we. Suzy has not had an offense since the middle of the pandemic. Although we get together as much as we can. But when I'm at home in my home office working and it's completely corporate, I cannot work. So I need to put something on just so I. And that gets me in sort of a flow state. So I think for me, for some people, audio is distracting if they're multicasting. For me, it kind of turns my engine on.

Yeah. It's like kind of what's the role of audio in your life?

Right. Well, we will definitely dig in. Well, Gail, as expected, this has been amazing. So I just want to thank you again. Also, thank you for being a huge part of Susie's journey and success. Being a member of our board of directors since really the beginning. And it's been incredible to work alongside you and we wouldn't be where we are today without you. So thank you for that.

Awesome.

This should be great. I'm really excited for our audience to hear this. So on behalf of me, the entire team at Suzy and Adweek, I just want to thank everyone for joining. Until next time, we'll see you on the Speed of Culture podcast. Take care, everyone. The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Suzy as part of the Adweek Podcast Network and a guest creator network. You can listen, subscribe to all Adweek's podcast by visiting adweek.compodcasts to find out more about Susie, head to susie.com and make sure to search for the speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google podcasts or anywhere else podcasts are found, click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Suzy, thanks for listening.

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