J.M. Smucker’s Gail Hollander on Cultural Truths & Brand Equity

Up today, we are thrilled to welcome Gail Holland. They're the Chief Marketing Officer for the J.M. Smucker Company. Gail, now a CMO of Smucker, is at the helm of marketing for a diverse portfolio that includes beloved names like Jif, Folgers, and the recently acquired Hostess brands. Gail, so great to see you today.

Oh, Matt, thank you so very much for having me. I'm super excited to talk to you.

Absolutely. So you and I both share, um, one core thing in common that we both spent the earlier stages of our career really cut our teeth in the agency world. I know that you spent, um, 20 years at the Publicis Group, uh, which is actually the company I sold my agency MRY to. Um, and can we just—

I remember MRY.

Yeah, there you go. I, I, I figured we had crossed paths during, uh, that time. And I'm just curious, like, Why is it effective to be in an agency landscape for so long? And what are some of the key learnings you took away from your two-decade span at Publicis Groupe?

You know what, I think being in the agency business gives you so many different perspectives. You're always looking at different challenges, you're always in different categories, you are always trying to understand how to creatively solve problems problems for different businesses and different brands. And so I think you're always being challenged. And the agency business also teaches you to be super curious because it's an ever-changing landscape.

Yeah.

And I think if I think about the most important thing that I think I've learned is it's really the importance of not only short-term delivery, but long-term delivery. So, you know, finding ways to make those brands iconic and having those icons be able to stand the test of time. And that's, you know, I think that's something that we as agency people learn and then we can bring into other, other areas of the business.

Yeah. And as you know, like when you're working at an agency, the CMO is really put on the pedestal and now you are a CMO, right? And for 20 years you were on the other side. What did you wish you knew when you were on the agency side that you've since learned as CMO that may have helped you more when you were on the agency side?

Oh God, that's a great, great question. A couple of things. I, I think that, well, first and foremost, as an agency person, I think you always have to be the best part of your client's day.

Yeah.

And I think now having sat on both sides of the ledger, I understand, I better understand the pressures, the short-term pressures that all clients are facing. So as a public company, it's critically important that we focus on, you know, today and tomorrow and the week and the quarter and the month because you are beholden to you know, your investors, you're beholden to what we call the street. But, um, all agency people are, are just born to think long term. So as an agency person, you can help your client by being able to balance brand building work that is not only going to grow that business today and contribute to today's P&L, but also protect it. Mm-hmm. And make sure that that brand has a legacy so that the foundation of that P&L stays strong. And I don't know as an agency person if I really, really understood the immense pressure that, you know, your brand people are facing. And so rather than going on and on about the long-term effects, you know, it would be really, really helpful to make sure that you're driving volume today. Yeah.

Yeah, totally makes sense. And given you have such, you know, vast experience on the agency side and now you've had some time to kind of zoom out of it, what do you think the future landscape of the ad agency world looks like in a world of AI, in a world of automation? What does the agency of the future look like 5 years from now?

You know what? I think, I think the landscape of the agency business is ever-changing.

Yeah.

You know, we'll go back 20 years. It was all about linear, right? You didn't have the agency business, wasn't a conglomerate of all those different capabilities. So I don't think at its core it's going to change dramatically. What I do think is the capabilities that the agencies offer are gonna have to evolve as the landscape continues to evolve. I think that culture will be critically, continue to be critically important in understanding how to make sure that your brands plug into culture is critical. And we have certainly done that with a number of our brands. You know, we, we think of ourself as, we have the taco approach where we tap, culture, we amplify it, we create it, or we have the opportunity to play. And, you know, just using an example of Jif, we tapped culture with Jif GIF. We amplified it with our latest peanut butter and chocolate launch through what we call the merger. We created the Little Jif Project, which is creating culture, which is really, really hard to do. And we play—

Yep.

With culture in Super Bowl with Save the Celery. So, So I think culture is going to be critical. I think analytics and data are going to continue to be super, super important and predictive modeling so that it's not a backwards-looking issue. It's a, it's really, you know, a forward, a forward-looking model. And then from, you mentioned AI, from an AI standpoint, you know what, I think about it in two ways. I think about AI as artificial intelligence. So. What can we take out of the system and let the machines do?

Yeah.

So it can be much more efficient and effective. And it's also augmenting intelligence. So how do we augment our own capabilities so that we can accelerate where we want to get to? And I think as long as the agencies are always keeping their, their finger on the pulse of what's changing, they will always bring the right capabilities to bear.

Yeah, and like you said, one of the benefits of working on the agency side is you working across a variety of different categories. And yeah, one thing I've seen over my career and working with brands is often, you know, you have this sort of myopic way of thinking that creeps in where, you know, you're, you're working on a category or you're working at a company and you can often lose sight of the world that's going on outside those four walls. And that's how brands get stuck and that's how they get, surprised when they get run over by a competitor who's innovating fast. And I think it's definitely incumbent on the agencies to help make sure that that doesn't happen to their clients.

Totally. And you know what? I think what the agency can bring to their clients is an outside-in perspective.

Yeah.

When you're at a client, you know, you're so focused on your brands and your categories and how you're doing that we always need that outside-in influence. And agencies, because they see see so many different categories and so many different businesses have the capacity to be able to do that.

Totally makes sense. So you spent 20 years at Publicis Groupe and then you made the decision to leave last year, uh, when you became, uh, Chief Marketing Officer of JAM Smucker. What goes behind a decision like that? Um, after you've been at a company for so long and, and it's a great company, which I've worked for and I, I understand the opportunities that exist there, why leave at this point in your career? And, and I guess what was the framework for you to make, get conviction in that decision?

Well, it wasn't an easy decision.

I will tell you that.

I'm sure. There was a lot of fretting over it. Publicis is, Publicis was home. It really was home for me. I always had the opportu— I was always challenged. I always had different opportunities. So I never really, you know, felt like I was, getting stagnant. And people would look at me, 20 years at one place, are you kidding me? But as long as I felt like I was growing and was learning and had the opportunity to sort of quench my curiosity, I was good.

Right.

I, we actually, we were asked to pitch the Jam Smucker business. So I guess publicist, it was, 6 years ago.

Mm-hmm.

And so, you know, I went through that whole process and I got to, um, understand at a deep level the culture that exists at, uh, J.M. Smucker. I got to understand, um, the thirst to do better. I got to understand their, uh, absolute undying commitment to brand building. And I'm a brand girl. Like I have grown up as a brand girl and so like a dedication and commitment and belief to brand building is critically important. And so when my partner, a gentleman by the name of Jeff Tanner, who was the CMO, left, I started having conversations with Mark Smucker and just the opportunity to be able to sort of ply your trade across 11 incredibly iconic brands. Mm-hmm. That have just retooled themselves and have the opportunity now to stand the test of time and not get dusty was just something that, that I couldn't pass up. And beyond that, I got the opportunity to continue to work with publicists. So it was a win-win situation all around for me. And I continue to be absolutely grateful and humbled, not only for my— Yeah. My opportunity to publish this, but to be able to nurture and shepherd the brands that we have at Smucker. Honestly, best job I've ever had.

Dream job. Yeah, I read an article with Brandon Averes where you talked about how it's your dream job and it was inspiring to hear your thoughts. And obviously, you know, it's a dream job for one major reason. It's just the brands you mentioned, you know, whether it's Smucker's or Jif or Folgers. And I mean, there's Meow Mix. There's so many great brands that you oversee. When you're overseeing a portfolio like that, and obviously we're in an ever-changing world in the CPG landscape, what are some of the core trends that you think are most impactful to your business that you have your eye on here in 2024?

Core trends. There are a couple of them. One, I mentioned— What is it? Culture. You know, making sure that you are always recognizing the importance of culture.

And I think historically, Consumer culture we're talking about.

Consumer culture. Yes.

Yep.

I think historically as marketers, what we would do is we would understand a brand truth, we would understand a consumer truth, and then we would find, you know, an execution, an executional pattern that was repeatable. And that's how we built the businesses, you know. Today I think it's critically important to be able to make sure that you understand your brand truth, your consumer truth, and the cultural truth, because that's the only way that you can remain relevant over time. So I think that's a trend in the industry that people recognize, but they don't always apply it as a strategic endeavor. They apply it as an executional endeavor. And that's where I think they have an opportunity. I think some of the other trends, like if I think about trends just in, our categories, consumer behaviors are changing. So they're going from 3 meals a day to continual snacking. You know, the standard, once COVID hit and we all like had, you know, different opportunities and we were all sort of staying in the same place, that notion of snacking over time is a big behavioral shift. And that impacts—

Yeah.

Our— definitely impacts our brands in a, a very big way. So, you know, making sure that you understand the behavioral shifts as a trend is something that's gonna be super important. We talked about AI. So I mean, those are the ones that I really think about long and hard and I think are impacting what we do today and will impact what we do tomorrow.

And in terms of key channels, obviously you mentioned COVID and one thing COVID ushered in is a wider acceptance for consumers to look at a platform like Instacart to, to do their grocery shopping and, and get things delivered. And now you have platforms like DoorDash that are growing their applicability to businesses like yours. How do you look at the channel strategy for consumers in an omnichannel approach? And where are consumers veering more towards that maybe makes you rethink the way that you look at distribution overall?

So, I mean, your use of the word omnichannel is really where it's at.

Yeah.

So from, you know, what we think about from a channel perspective, you just have to think digital. You have to think the collapse of the funnel in any way, shape, or form. And so, you know, our goal is to be able to get from one place into a cart in one click. And that's what's, that's what drives us about, I don't know, about 90% of everything. All of our investment is digital now. We, we, from a distribution standpoint, you know, you think across the funnel and you just make sure that you continue to give your consumers the opportunity to collapse it and make sure that you're showing up and making it easy for them.

Mm-hmm.

You know, life is hard.

Yeah. Convenience.

Convenience, right? Life is chaotic. And so I think it's our responsibility, one, to make it easier for consumers in terms of where we're at and how they can get it, how they can access our products. And the other thing that I think is critically important is things are kind of negative out there. So we have a responsibility to pour positivity back into the world through our brands.

Yeah. And I know another big mandate for a CMO at a company like James Smucker is innovation, right? Innovation comes in a lot of different areas. Obviously you could have innovation in packaging, in, in, you know, the form factor, in, in the flavor, et cetera. One thing that caught my eye is that Jif Power-Ups, for example, as a, as a great extension to a beloved brand to unlock new growth opportunities.

Right.

What is your process as CMO for helping to drive innovation across the product portfolio in all the different varieties that I just, uh, allayed?

Yeah, I mean, we have insights under the CMO organization, and so I, I think the contribution is really through insight. Um, how is the category changing? What are adjacent categories where behaviors are similar enough that you can possibly play there?

Sure.

You know, what are consumers looking for from a, as you mentioned before, from a convenience standpoint and how can our packaging or our forms help with that? What's the flavor profile that's changing? You know, heat in terms of spiciness is something that consumers absolutely love. And you look across the ketchup aisle, you look across—

Yeah.

The cereal aisle.

Super hot right now. No pun intended. Super hot.

Right, right. Super, super hot. So, you know, those are trends that we can help identify that allows our innovation partners to go and start looking at, well, how do we deliver against this? And does this make any sense?

Yeah, it's interesting. And another key element, obviously, after you innovate is making sure that you can get the message out. To consumers. And you mentioned that the agency world used to be about linear, and now, you know, we are in such a fragmented media landscape. One disadvantage CPG companies have is that traditionally they do not have first-party data. And in this increasingly cookieless world, it makes it more challenging to reach the right consumer. How do you, as CMO, look at first-party data and the importance of it, um, when you're sitting on top of a portfolio of CPG Brands?

Yeah, you know, you have, you have two options. You can either drive to acquire all that first-party data, which is very expensive.

Yeah, it is.

Or you can figure out other ways to identify those sources of growth and create lookalikes. And so we do the latter. We have a strong bank of first-party data, but For us, it's really understanding where the growth is gonna come from, identifying, you know, who might be in that cohort from a growth target standpoint, and then identifying lookalikes so we can scale—

Right.

Information and make sure that our dollars are going, that aren't being wasted. Our dollars are going to where we're actually gonna drive volume and where we can serve the right consumer.

And that's where, I mean, I think your agency experience plays so well into your role as CMO is that you have that tactical hands-on experience because you have to have that.

Right.

And working in an agency, as I know as well, and I think sometimes I, I, I talk to CMOs and they may have grown up on the brand side and they've always sort of outsourced that work and they've never really had hands on keyboard, so to speak. And so while they have a strong strategic sense, they, they don't really understand the nitty-gritty or the practices. And I think that probably gives you a leg up in driving efficiency and effectiveness for your spend.

Well, I, I think that understanding the fundamentals of brand building, what it actually takes to drive a business and to drive it not only in the short term but the long term is, is something that's critical for a CMO. I think understanding, you know, as you said, strategy is critically important and understanding the power of equity, brand equities, and what that can do for you over the course of time is something that's critically important. And then you're right. I mean, you know, we deal in big strategy vision and we also deal in hands-on keys tactics. So understanding or having a team that really understands how to get that done, um, I think is a benefit for all of us.

Absolutely. And one thing that, you know, occurred to me as I was looking at the Smucker website and just preparing for this interview is that a lot of the brands that you oversee, I would call more legacy brands. And they are iconic in some senses. Yet, you know, your audience and the CFO of the household is increasingly the millennial and soon to become Gen Z. That didn't grow up in the golden age of TV, right? Grew up in the world where there was that media fragmentation. And because of that, it's kind of bestowed on you to make sure that those legacy brands are modernized for this new consumer. Because if you just do things the way they've always been done, you could, you could be seen as my, my mother or my grandmother's peanut butter. And you obviously, you don't want that, right? So how do you look at modernizing brands? Because you, I, you know, obviously you're very astute in terms of brand building. Yeah. But modernizing brands is really an art form and one that not everybody gets right.

Yeah. So I can just, I can share with you our sort of playbook and formula.

Yeah, please.

There are lots of ways to get to answer that question. But from, again, sorry, I'm gonna repeat myself a little bit. It goes back to, first of all, a brand has a beating heart. And so you've got the DNA of a brand and you never ever lose sight of that, right? When you start to twist and turn, that's when, uh, you lose all of the equity that you've built up. It's like a bank that you build up.

Where's the beating heart live? Is it, is it in what it's known for? Is it like if I describe a brand when you're not in the room, is that the beating heart of the brand? Is it the look, tone, and feel? Like where does the beating heart come from?

The beating heart come— it's a strategy. So the beating heart is coming from what makes that particular, um, uh, product so unique. So, um, I, I'll use Café Bustelo as an example. Café Bustelo is a Latin brand. It, it has Latin heritage. And so the beating heart of that brand is its Latin heritage and, um, all of the positivity and energy and brightness that comes with that. Coupled with a product, and not only in form, but flavor profiles that are true to that Latin heritage. That's the beating heart of that brand. You then identify consumer truths. What do consumers want from a coffee category? And why is Bustelo appropriate, you know, for this particular audience? And then the modernization comes from— From the product. Understanding that cultural truth. And the cultural truth, if you look at it from a Bustelo standpoint, we live, particularly for those targets that you mentioned or cohorts that you mentioned, we live in a very diverse society. That is a beautiful thing and it is something that we need to cherish. And so understanding that cultural truth, plugging it into Bustelo, plugging it into what consumers want from a coffee perspective is how you maintain your, your heartbeat and you can continue to modernize over time.

I mean, I think it's fantastic advice. I, I think that a lot of brand, I mean, whether you're managing an iconic brand that's well known like your brands or whether you're a small company, I think trying to figure out that beating heart and sticking to it, I think is great advice. So thank you for sharing that. So just shifting gears a little bit. So we talked about what it was like on the agency side and kind of like what you wish you knew back then. Now that you are a CMO, now that you're a CMO, and I'm just like to reverse the question, what does value look like in your mind? Because everyone's trying to get to the CMO, right? You go to Cannes or you go to CES and you have these CMO dinners and everybody, you know, like I mentioned, they're put on a pedestal. For you as a CMO, what type of value could a vendor or a potential partner bring to you that makes it worth your while, that will make you wanna schedule time on your calendar to meet with someone?

Really interesting question. That's a, that's a great, great question.

Thank you.

I, I think what I value most is that outside-in perspective and helping not only myself, but, but our teams understand what's around the corner. Where is this industry going? Where is that technology going? How can we better use that technology to our brand's advantage? Those are the things that partners have access to and see and understand that we may not be seeing.

Yeah.

Because we're, you know, so internally focused. So I, I'm for, ever, like reaching out to all of my outside partners saying, you know what, I'm seeing this, like I, I'm starting to see this trend appear. Is it a real trend? Where's it going? Why do we think that's happening? How do we think that it's gonna impact our categories? I think understanding how consumer behavior is changing in the, You know, you think about peanut butter category, for example, where Jif competes. Well, guess what? Consumers are interested in spreads. You know, you think about hummus, you think about cream cheese, you think about all of that. Well, guess what? Peanut butter is a spread as well. So, you know, help me understand what's going on in the spreads market so that I can think about that relative to peanut butter. So I think that's where the greatest value happens. I, I went to Cannes this year, um, and one of the things that, uh, struck me most when I was talking to different partners is not only understanding where they're going to, but understanding their, um, impact as almost like a creative partner.

Uh, yeah.

Almost like a person, uh, you know, a group who can plug into the creative team and help us understand how to use that technology. To its best advantage. That's not something that we would normally understand.

Right. Totally makes sense. So wrapping up here, Gail, I mean, obviously not everybody ends up in the CMO seat, especially at a prestigious company like Smucker. And obviously you wouldn't have gotten to where you are without making a certain set of powerful or impactful decisions across your career, not just the decision to join Smucker, but just throughout your relationship building and development process of being on the agency side as well. What are some of the key decisions you think you made that did help you set you up for where you are today? Wow.

I gotta go back and do a whole journey in my head. Um, so, uh, one of the decisions I think I made philosophically Yeah, yeah. Decisions that I made is to believe that it's my job to make a difference every day. You know, I was the kid who saw "It's a Wonderful Life" with Jimmy Stewart, and, you know, he made a difference just by being who he was. And I thought that just stuck with me forever. And so, you know, I just wanna make a difference. In wherever I am with whomever I'm talking to. And sort of, you know, I think it's my job to get rid of barriers so people can achieve whatever it is that they're trying to achieve. I think that I also, I believe in relationships. You know, you can make a choice just to do your job every single day and that's it. And when, you know, it's over, you're onto the next. But I believe strongly in partnership and relationships. And so I think that decision to focus half my time on that has benefited me. I think that being curious and raising your hand and saying, "Hey, I'd like to take on something else. I need to learn something new," has benefited me. And then the other thing is to always have a voice. Mm-hmm. Don't be afraid. Speak up. You never know what's gonna happen. You never know what door that's gonna open. And so, yeah, I think philosophically, those are the things that come to mind.

No, those are all really powerful decisions. Yeah, and that was exactly where I was going with the question. Not so much—

Okay.

—making a decision to meet with this person, but just generally speaking in terms of how you go about your career. So—

Yeah.

And with that, to kind of bottle it all up, is there sort of a mantra or saying that comes to mind if you had to sum your career up in one?

Make a difference.

Yeah.

I wanna make a difference. I wanna make a difference in people's lives. I wanna make a difference, uh, in the corporation. I wanna make a difference for the brands. I just wanna make a difference.

Awesome. Well, I definitely think you're gonna make a difference to our audience at, at, at the podcast, uh, by sharing all your wisdom. So I'm incredibly appreciative of you taking the time today. It was fantastic to get to know you and, and, and learn more about your journey.

Matt, thank you so very much. I really appreciate it. And listen, I could talk about this for days. It's my passion area.

Okay, well, we'll have to have you back again. So on behalf of Suzy— yeah, on behalf of Suzy and Ivy Keen, thanks again to Gail Hollander, CMO of Jim Smucker Company, for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, see you soon, everyone. Take care.