Northwestern Mutual CMO Lynn Teo on Innovating Financial Marketing for the Next Generation

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I think for Gen Z it's about how do you make yourself relevant and helpful? So as they age up and they enter different phases of their life, you become that default brand that they think of. That's where the holistic planning starts to kick in because you would have established by then a relationship with your financial advisor. So I think the beauty of it is Gen Z expects you to understand them and Gen Z doesn't want to be sold. Gen Z wants to be engaged.

So how do you engage them? To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, Founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now and how you can keep up. Welcome to the Speed of Cult. Today we're thrilled to be joined by Lynn Teo, the CMO at Northwestern Mutual. Lynn's responsible for the brand, the marketing, the research, the insights, the events, and everything in between for this 34 billion dollar revenue business. Lynn, it's so great to see you here at ces. Thanks so much for joining today.

Well, thank you for having me, Matt.

Absolutely. So Lynn, I was going through your background and I saw that you started your career on the agency side and I spent many years running an agency myself and I know that it is stressful, but you do learn a lot and it brings a lot of benefits. When you look back at that part of your career, what are some of the takeaways that you have that you think help prepare you for the role you have today?

I have to say it helped me engage in transformation initiatives with no fear no playbooks. Because I think when you're on the agency side, I would categorize consulting in that same vein is you are being service business. That's right. You're given a very small amount of time to understand the business that you're trying to solve a problem for. And you have to add value as a consultant, as an agency person, you're brought in because they couldn't solve the problem in house quickly enough. And so you've got to bring it. So I think that my agency have trained my ability to problem solve, to not be afraid of transformation, but to always look at the exciting side of innovating a solution. I think training your ability to change, training your ability to solve a problem and not just operate in the status quo, it's just an invaluable skill to have. So I think it served me well.

Yeah. And you also get to jump around from brand to brand. So while you have to kind of learn quickly, you also get the novelty of going from working on automotive to financial services to tech.

And.

And that can keep it fresh. And you can also take learnings from one industry and extract it to something else.

Absolutely. And I would encourage any young upstart in marketing to really consider formative years. 5, 8 years in the consulting or any agency. To your point, I reflect on my 10 years. I've had an interesting career, Matt. It's been what I call the 5, 10, 10. Okay, so five years at Bell Labs, which was the days before Google got really big, and then 10 years consulting digital agencies, agen, and then 10 client side. So when I reflect on those 10 years in agencies, I tackle advertising, publishing, automotive software, E commerce, travel, banking. Dizzying. Right, Right. And I think if you're a learner and you love understanding the business context, I just think that's a wonderful way for anyone who wants to be a CMO or a senior marketing leader to start their careers on the agency side.

So when you say go to the client side, I mean it is interesting because you're on the other side of the table and it kind of flips. What's different about being a client that maybe you didn't expect when you joined? And all of a sudden now you're on the side that's doing the spending, that has the revenue responsibility, et cetera.

Right.

How's that shift for you?

Yep. Well, one of the biggest differences, I think being on client versus agency side is one, you hold the budgets.

Yeah.

You have a p. And you are accountable to provide results to your enterprise for a lot of publicly traded companies. It's quarterly investor earnings reports. For me, in a private company, we still have to do our QBRs, our quarterly business reviews. So in many ways, you will know if your strategies are having the desired business impact.

Right.

So in many ways, like, you can run, but you can't hide.

You can't hide anywhere because if it's.

Not working, it's on you to pivot. Because if not, the enterprise is wasting resources.

So you're stuck with the consequences of your decision where, you know, if you run a campaign and you're on the agency side, yeah, maybe your agency loses the account, but presumably you'd work on another account or.

That's right.

But whatever decisions you make, it's part of your role. And it. You have to.

That's the biggest difference. And I think you need to revel in it and you need to gain energy from it, not be afraid of something that you thought was going to work, didn't work. But I think the key is how are you able to pivot? And I just think that being on the client side, you also able to carry an understanding of how teams need to be motivated on the agency side. Right. And I tell people that clients, you deserve the agency you get, because it all depends on how good of a client you are.

So true. So true.

Isn't it?

Well, ultimately, it's like if you expect people to spend late nights away from their family and really put in that extra effort and think about your business when they're going for a run at the park, they need to like you and they need to feel respected. And throughout my side on the agency world, I've had clients that I'd run through a wall through because I wanted to make them proud.

That's right.

I have other clients where it's like, they're not treating me good, not treating my people good, are treating me like a vendor they don't respect and like, I really don't care about their business or their career.

That's right. Like you don't care about them as human. Right.

Because we're all. We're human beings.

That's right.

I say the same else with pitches. It's like, yes, I'll never forget I worked on the pitch, and I want to say it was like Memorial Day weekend. Yeah, it was for a big technology client. And to this day, I've never found out if I won the pitch or not. That was 15 years ago. And you put your heart and soul. They don't even tell you if you win or not. It's like we're spending all these hours and you can't take 30 seconds or any. Must say, thanks so much. We're going another direction. I just think ultimately you need treat people with respect. It's a long road. And ultimately you get from other people what you give to them.

You said that so well, Matt. Thank you. And I feel sorry for you.

Oh, it's ok. I'm kind of over it.

I know, but. But I think that it really affects me as just like a human.

Yeah, exactly.

You don't do that to someone. When I think about the first RFP I ran, and this was two gigs ago.

Right.

Not my current role. And I remember we had six agencies at the table and we really were very thorough in assessing them. But when we landed on our decision mat, we took the time to call every single one of them and we said, we are willing to give you a half hour or 45 minute slot so that you and I can feedback. We can talk very candidly about what we liked and what we didn't. And I take that very seriously because I was on the other side. And everything you said about late nights and you're pouring your heart and soul into it, I think that's the least we can do as clients. But I still remember one gentleman telling me he's like, lin, no one that we've worked with has actually taken the time.

Yeah, it's true. You know, it's unique that you guys do that.

We did that. And even though we didn't pick them, that individual is in my very special circle of friends right now. And I think that it's a long road too.

Who knows? Other opportunities will undoubtedly come up again in the future.

That's exactly right. So I definitely think that my being from an agency before helped me appreciate what does it take to get the best work out of people. I see my agencies as extensions of my team and in fact, I love it when they come together and they ideate and you have to be that kind of leader that is able to bring the best out of people regardless of where they are and where they work.

Right, right. So I think for me that's transparency, collaboration.

Exactly.

All that.

Exactly.

And if a new partner, a vendor, an agency wants to do business with you on the client side.

Yes.

Obviously. I'm sure you don't like being cold called and spammed and bugged. Who does?

Yes.

What does work? I've always wanted to ask this of a CMO in terms of. To give advice to some of our listeners. And, you know, get in front of somebody like you and how to add value and ultimately be able to do business with you.

Great question. I think that you have to earn your right to open up a conversation with a CMO. So I've had multiple meet and greets at CES. Some of them are 15 minute quick pulse meet and greets. And the one for the purpose of.

Seeing who to work with.

Yes. Or there is an agency that feels like they have something unique to offer and I think you should always show up having done some homework about the.

Client because you're giving up your time. At a minimum, they should give something back for your time, which is doing some work, adding some value.

Adding some value. Right. And I see that as part and parcel of life.

Right.

Like if you're going to get someone to spend time with you, you need to show that you are interested in that particular potential client.

Yeah.

So that for me goes a long way. And having a point of view about what is working or what isn't working from any publicly facing asset. You know, it could be a website.

Corporate earnings call, you name it.

That's right.

Quote that you gave in a podcast. Anything like that.

Exactly. And it doesn't matter if it's not a hundred percent accurate. But what that tells me is that there is critical thinking, there is some level of assessment that's been done, and it really is a teaser in terms of telling me how would this person work with me and my team.

Yeah.

So I.

And you can see the intellectual plane that they're playing at.

That's right.

How high level are they thinking, how tactical are they, how truly comprehensive do they understand your business and what you're trying to accomplish?

Absolutely. And I always believe that everyone has something to offer. And so I can go into a conversation with someone who's fresh from college or someone who's an intern. And if they demonstrate this drive and hunger to do something for my brand and they've put in the time, I will give them the time.

If they have aptitude and they're good, then they have a shot.

And that's right.

I get so many emails. People want to do business or even potential employees. And I would agree, 99% of them just. It's like you're copying pasting my name for somebody else's. And you didn't take any time.

That's right.

So it's like you want me to take 15 minutes and grab coffee with you, but you couldn't even write an email or do any research, et cetera. And I think a lot of people lack patience or they just think I should be able to just will my way through. But you do have to earn it. And earning it is. That's how it kind of should be. And I think it's a good message for, I think, people in business to understand that.

Yeah.

But that also creates sort of like a meritocracy where if you can break through, then there's a lot of opportunity out there.

That's exactly right. Because like I said, it is a taster of how this agency partner is going to work with you.

Yeah. Looking at your background, I also saw that you've worked all around the world.

Right.

You've worked. So I envy. I never got the chance to work overseas, and I love traveling and tell me about that experience and how you've been able to adapt to local cultures.

Yes.

And local business norms in new markets as you've been able to.

Yep.

Yeah.

Well, I think a lot of it is my background, having grown up in a multicultural, multiracial.

Where'd you grow up? City?

State? I grew up in Singapore.

Okay.

And I was there for my undergrad years. And so growing up in a multicultural society, you understand how to flex.

Yeah.

And you understand that not everyone views the world in the same way. And so I think that's been my default in any situation I step into. I'm intellectually curious about what makes one category of people different than another.

Sure.

And so you kind of walk in with no preconceived notions. And maybe because I grew up in a multiracial country, I have an innate understanding of maybe social conventions or cultural differences in how people are with each other, preferences in communication. So I think that's been very helpful as I go into a new market or a new geography and understand. All right, well, what would it take to connect? And I think the core of it is believing that research and insights serve as the basic kernel of either good advertising, good marketing, and I would even say I've kind of coined the term unmarketing. I think the best marketing is when you're not trying to overtly market.

Absolutely.

But you're there to tell the person, I understand your situation, I understand you, and then I understand how my brand can add value to you.

Yeah. What do you think about when you wake up in the morning and where's my brand fit in? How can I help?

That's right.

Ultimately, the first way. And that's really shift the, I think, paradigm for brands from advertising, which is pushing my unique selling proposition to content which is adding value and trying to enter people's lives contextually where they feel like there's value added and they will put your brand in the consideration set.

That's right. It's either you entertain them, you educate them, you inform them, you do something that maybe they didn't know. So you're adding value.

Yeah, totally get it. So let's talk about your current role at Northwestern Mutual. So very big company, big financial services organization. If you met somebody at a cocktail hour and they said, what does your company do? How would you describe it?

I would describe it as one six, six, year old financially sound financial services company that had its roots insurance. But over the last 40 years or so we've really branched into full holistic, integrated financial plan. And very few people know this, but the combination of those two things, we call them risk products and investment products, they work in tandem.

Insurance and wealth management.

That's exactly right. And the beauty of Northwestern Mutual is we manufacture our risk products.

So it's on the balance sheet.

Not so much on the balance sheet, but how these products work to pay you dividends over time while still giving you the protection and coverage.

Like whole life insurance policies.

That's right. We have whole life, we have term life, we have discipline, we have long term care. Very few people know this, but the investments that you make, and maybe I shouldn't be using the term investment, but we pay dividends. And so at the time of when you have to make a claim, you are being given whatever your insured amount is. But what people don't know is that you actually have dividends that are paid out as the years roll and you.

Can borrow against the cash value as well.

That's exactly.

A lot of young people especially don't understand the value of whole life insurance.

As a sound, as a mechanism, but it is a set of instruments and tools that work together. And when you think about the market volatility that we're seeing, right, the days when crypto was what everyone was running after.

Rising interest rates.

Rising interest rates, right. But the philosophy here is that at the time that you retire, you want to be able to protect your assets. You don't want to be subject to the fluctuations of the market. The market. And that's the reason why the combination of those two things give you the trajectory, trajectory of growth, but also give you the stability of what you need to live. So there was a whole science and a whole set of algorithms that go along that calculation. And so that would be kind of a large part of my description which is holistic financial planning. And the only way that products and services reach the consumer and our clients is through our financial advisors. They are, in my opinion, they're on.

The front line through the touchpoint, but.

They'Re also second to none. And when I think about the history of Northwestern Mutual, we have 8,000 financial advisors who truly, truly care about their clients financial futures. You hear stories of people being wheeled into the emergency room and the call that they want to make is to their financial advisor to make sure their.

Family is taken care of.

That's right.

Yeah.

And those relationships have been built over tens of years. Our average relationship with Our advisors is 42 years. With the company is 42 years.

Wow.

That's pretty phenomenal. So I think it's a sound, financially strong company that has stood the test of time. Let me get my facts straight. But since 1872, we have not failed to pay a dividend. Think about all the life events. Think about all the world events that have happened.

The global financial crisis.

Crisis, yeah. Everything. Everything. Wars, depression. Very few companies can do that. We're about the long term. We're not the flash in the pan that moment in time. We're about disciplined long term holistic financial planning. Extremely proud to be holding up the brand for Northwestern Mutual.

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So as CMO, obviously you want to steward the brand but ultimately is about driving growth of the business. I would imagine. And a big part of that's acquiring new customers.

Yes.

Right. So the average customer is with your company for over 40 years.

Yes.

The entry points aren't every day when a consumer would be ready to switch. Life insurance is something that from my experience is something that a lot of people push off.

Yes.

Just like I don't need to do it today. I'm so. And I don't know if your entry point's more on the wealth management side or the life insurance side, but how are you going about driving growth, getting new customers? How are you translating that great story that you just talked about from Northwestern Mutual to the millennial generation and younger people who are first starting on their financial journey.

Fantastic question. And we actually are very focused on Gen Z as we think about how do we start them young. Right. Because if you.

Best time to start.

Best time.

Yeah. The power of compound interest. Yeah.

Bingo.

Yeah.

Right. And I tell people that, like, don't make the mistake I made, which was I realized much later in life and there are all sorts of cultural reasons why we form belief systems about money and saving. But I go back to the 20 somethings who are maybe in their first job, getting married, having a baby, having a first corporate job, first 401k, buy.

A home, all the time.

And I see our brand, the Northwestern Visual brand, as being there to provide the guidance, to help the information that they need to be of service and to be helpful. And maybe their first product could be a disability product because when you're in your 20s, you've got an entire lifetime in front of you. You can't afford to be disabled. And maybe that first product is a disability product. But the way we connect to new clients is I call it a segment approach. So what are the needs of this particular segment? These are folks who are getting established. We have people who are maybe a further along they might be sandwich generation where they have parents and children, but I think for Gen Z, it's about how do you make yourself relevant and helpful. So as they age up and they enter different phases of their life, you become that default brand that they think of. That's where the holistic planning starts to kick in because you would have established by then a relationship with your financial advisor. So I think the beauty of it is Gen Z expects you to understand them and Gen Z doesn't want to be sold. Gen Z wants to be engaged.

So how do you engage them?

Well, if you look at our presence on TikTok, you'll see that we've done pretty well.

Okay.

In terms of the financial services industry, we're one of the leading financial services presences on TikTok. If you look at Instagram, we're also very much attuned to what are some of the visual elements that serve that platform well. For the great realization, we launched a campaign on Pinterest. Highly visual. You want to visualize your life. Whether you love traveling, you're removing your kitchen. So you have to think very creatively about how you will intersect with someone's.

Life, their passion points, things about, and where does your services fit in.

That's exactly right. The Other area that we're very hyper focused on is partnerships, because partnerships open up new avenues, new audiences, and you.

Get borrowed brand equity of other brands. It might be more relevant in certain areas as well. That's right.

So you may have heard about the brewer sponsorship. So we went into a jersey patch sponsorship with the Brewers, Milwaukee brewers, for two historical legacy brands based in Milwaukee. But the interesting thing is that that team is going to travel all over the US Spring training. So we see that as a wonderful way to extend presences and commuting, where we have financial advisors that will then maybe invite the clients to be part of our brewers experience. And so we think very creatively about partnerships. We think about what other affinities can we identify. Financial literacy being one of them. Women Sustain Action for Racial Equity SER S A R E. That's a program that's been launched at Northwestern Mutual for about three plus years after the murder of George Floyd. We said, what can we do to change the conversation around financial inequity in the US and we went all in. Right down to suppliers. Who are we using as our suppliers? Funding black founders in our accelerator fund. Right. So these are all things that I think Gen Z finds highly resonant because there's a social impact component of it. So again, I think about these partnerships.

And trying to make the world a better place along the way. Absolutely.

In the most authentic way, because we firmly believe in it. And Northwestern Mutual believes that we can change the conversation around the inequity of financial lives. You know, when we think about Hispanics and how they've grown in their population in the US we think about the LGBTQ community. Right. So women. I mean, I think the key here is being highly attuned to communities that need us.

Yeah.

And how can we serve?

And you can't go after Gen Z without having diverse approach because by nature, a diverse demographic.

That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

So and when you talk about TikTok and your ability to engage, there was probably a lot of learning that you had to undertake to understand this is a new platform, it's a new environment.

Yes.

And TikTok specifically is a platform where you really need to be able to fit into the form factor of how people seek out and consume content there.

That's right.

So what does a process like that look like in an institution like yours, which is. It's been around a long time.

That's right.

So you have to now all of a sudden adapt.

That's right. And I give my social media team A ton of credit for this. They lean into what does it take for the post to actually show up on people's feeds? Because there is a science behind that.

Absolutely.

The algorithm. But what's the right content to put in front of people? So you have to entertain, but you also have to draw brand relevance like what it is that we do that we believe is going to be helpful.

Finding the right audience shouldn't feel like doom scrolling with Experian. It doesn't. Experian syndicated audiences help you reach holiday shoppers, car buyers and more across over 200 top platforms with over 2,400 pre built audiences. There's no more doom scrolling. It's audience targeting you can trust. Made simple. Learn more@experian.com Adweek that's exp.erian.com Adweek so.

Little clips about what's helpful, little tips. We're also going to be doing much more work in the video long form video space. As I look at YouTube I'm hearing that a lot.

Yes.

Because I think there is a hunger for that kind of information. And instead of someone, a non financial services entity doling out that information, I think we have 8,000 plus financial advisors who have all the right licenses to be able to give out the right.

And you guys can underwrite it because you have presumably a business case on the back end of it if you can win more customers.

That's right.

And build your business.

That's right. We have a chief investment officer who has a point of view about our philosophy and we have product experts in the entire area of our portfolio. So we feel really good about being at the forefront of that because, you know, the information has been vetted and it comes from us.

Absolutely. And how are you able to land the plane? So you're creating this engaging content, you're entertaining, you're educating people. But then I would imagine eventually you need to start to collect leads or do something. So you know, down the line you are paying it off.

Absolutely. I tell my teams that the problem with advertising that stays at the emotional side of things is I said you can emote till the cows come home.

Right.

If the person's not going to take action, then we wouldn't have done our job.

And if it's Coca Cola and they're seeing it every day on the shelves, it's different because they're going food shopping every day. But yours is a little bit different. Way more intentional about.

That's right. And for us, the start of the lead is when someone raises their hand and says I would really like to talk to a financial advisor. And we have a matching algorithm on our site where it's informed by the demographic, the geographical area. So we have a little bit of a secret sauce behind that matching process.

You are matchmaking, you're creating relationship, and that relationship is the work that's right for that relationship to thrive. And then be a 40 year customer one day.

Exactly. And it might just start with a conversation. Of course, that doesn't convert tomorrow, it doesn't convert in three months. But we have found that a year tends to be a pretty reasonable amount of time where you're kind of giving the person time and space to really learn about us trust and build trust. Because it's a different kind of product. We're not selling sneakers. And we also say that in the space of insurance, you'll hear this often that they'll say that our product is actually sold, not bought. Yeah, but I say that because the selling process has to be so attuned to what that person needs. It can't be a hard push. It has to come from deep understanding of that particular person, his or her family structure. How many children do they have? How did they grow up? So the questions that our financial advisors ask are what we know, the differentiating factor. The questions you ask then lead to the answers that we provide. But are you asking the right questions? And I've always believed that Northwestern Mutual Advisors are so well trained and so diligent in kind of their understanding of tax laws and all the instruments and vehicles that they actually know which questions to ask.

Yeah, totally makes sense. So we're at CES here in Las Vegas. It's all about innovation and what's next.

Yes.

In your category in financial services, there's been just a slew of new fintech innovation.

Yes.

Also on the wealth management front, there's companies like Wealthfront, there's platforms like Robinhood where people can invest on their own. How do you see these sorts of innovations? Which Gen Z does gravitate towards what's new? Is that an area that Northwestern Mutual is also looking at in terms of. Obviously you always want the human touch in the relationship, but is there an element of technology that can enter the fray that can also help you contemporize a little bit for this new generation?

We have a client experience team and that's where all of our engineering, digital, product, tech teams operate out of. Our mobile app is something that we put a lot of time and investment in. We believe that that mobile app serves as the daily pulse that Daily engagement, whether it's what your spending patterns look like, I think that for us is a doorway. So that.

And people expect that now people expect it. Partners.

Yeah, absolutely. But we're again, I go back to your value prop. Our value prop is integrated holistic financial planning. So when you power up our apps, right. We're innovating in terms of how do you give people this full picture of the elements in that portfolio that they actually don't have. And if you start out with a disability product, there would be a logical next adjacent product that you should complete the puzzle. Complete the puzzle. And if you think about the power of AI and the tons of data that we sit on top of. Right.

And again, knowing about the customer, where they are in the lifecycle, what their needs are, you can feed them.

Absolutely. And make no mistake, we protect our clients data with tremendous sense of responsibility. But I think what you're able to then do is be able to aggregate some of those patterns that you're seeing. So we have a data science and analytics team, the DSA team that feeds into a lot of the propensity to buy a second product and if so, what that product is. And I think about marketing as showing up at the right moment in time. We're also thinking about innovations in the service space. So when someone calls and makes a claim, I mean, I think about that moment as being a moment of truth for the brand because you have to be empathetic, but you also have to follow through with your promises that you're going to pay this claim out. And I also think about how we can innovate in terms of what then happens to that claim. What's the best way to invest in that claim? Do you need all of it all at the same time? And so I think about the innovations we make in the services side of our business. It's fascinating. And I think, I think in an industry that is at the cutting edge, but also with the breadth and the longevity of having done this for a hundred years.

Right. You don't want to be bleeding edge and lose the principles of what made the company great and a lot of what remained true 50 years ago in terms of compound interest and saving and risk management still exists today.

Exactly. And expertise, I put a lot of weight behind the expertise that we've gained over those 160 plus years. And so I believe that Northwestern Mutual has a unique value proposition of the human combined with the technology.

Yeah. Awesome. So wrapping up here, Lynn, you obviously have a lot of passion for what you're doing. It's clear that you're in the right role at the right time. Right now, when you look back at your career, what are some of the things that you think that you did right and decisions that you made along the way that sort of enabled you to one day end up in the CMO seat, which is a place where many marketers want to end up in one day. It's such a prominent institution.

You know what? I think what's propelled me is I've just been innately curious.

Yeah, you can tell curious. I'm talking to you.

I just want to learn. I don't take anything at face value. I don't believe that things stay static. And I lean in because I believe that that's the only way for a business to stay relevant. I lean in into insights. I lean into what people need. So perhaps it's that combination of me starting my career as a usability engineer, a human factors engineer. It says that right there in my title at Bell Labs. So I think I started out with this very deep empathy for people and what people need, and then I kind of translated that into a career in digital products and digital native and being digital first, but never saying no to traditional media. And I think that's important because it's the synthesis of all of it that helps you be a good cmo. I tell people that I don't have statements that go, oh, if it's traditional, it's bad. If it's digital, it's good. No, I want to think about how I can orchestrate these things in the best possible way and to bring a systems thinking into my philosophy of marketing. So that has served me well. And I'm hoping that listeners will maybe take away something here and say, continue being curious.

Absolutely. And is there a mantra that you were to sum it up the way that you look at your career?

I would say find a way to get there.

Yeah.

And that's because I grew up in Singapore and I had big dreams about coming to New York and figure out a way to get there. And I think that mantra has served me well. Whatever obstacles, I.

Perseverance. Right?

Perseverance, hard work. Things don't come easy. But I believe that if you set your heart and your mind to it, that you can achieve a lot.

Yeah, that's for sure. We're going to leave it at that. Thank you so much, Lynn. This has been awesome. I cannot wait for our listeners to hear about your journey and the great work you're doing at Northwestern Mutual. So thank you so much for thank.

You for having me.

Absolutely. On behalf of Susan Adwee Team, thanks again to Lynn Teo, CMO of Northwestern Mutual, for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. We're here live at CES in Las Vegas and we'll see everyone soon. Take care everyone. Bye bye. The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Suzy as part of the Adweek Podcast Network and a Guest Creator Network. You can listen subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting Adweek.com to find out more about Suzy, head to Suzy.com and make sure to search for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts, or anywhere else podcasts are found. Click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Suzy, thanks for listening.