Scaling a CPG Brand in 2022 & Beyond with Mark Edmonson, CMO at Materne North America, GoGo squeeZ

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Thank you so much.

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It'S more than just an applesauce brand we're talking about. You know, what is this brand doing for my life? Because consumers no longer opt into brand attributes they're opting into. What is this brand going to do and how will the brand fit into my lifestyle?

To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, Founder and CEO of suz. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up. Welcome to the Speed of Culture. Today we're going to be speaking with Mark Edmondson, Chief Marketing Officer at Materne North America, which, among other things, oversees the brand Gogo Squeeze. Mark's a longtime friend of mine way back for his P and G days. We're live and in person here in Manhattan. So it's great to see you, Mark, and excited for today's podcast episode.

It's fantastic to be with you.

Yeah, likewise. It's been a while and I know that you've been quite busy. Before we dive in, I'd love To hear a little bit more for our audience about your background and how you got to where you are today.

Yeah, absolutely. So I just cannot believe it's been almost 20 years since we actually worked together. Wow, that's pretty shocking.

I mean, you don't look a day older.

Same.

Same.

But yeah, you know, I started my career in a field I actually didn't expect. I started off as a digital marketing manager with a background and a degree in computer science and mathematics. I had no clue that I would enter the world of digital marketing. But that stage of my career, it was really all about helping marketers understand the digital landscape. Even back then, digital marketing was in the IT function because marketing truly didn't know what to do with it. So being able to at the forefront of such a powerful tool way back then was remarkable. But yep, started off in digital marketing on a consumer relationship marketing program called Home Eat Simple. One of P&G's largest consumer relationship marketing programs was a newsletter, but also we turned it into a TV show. It was almost like a lifestyle brand without products that exist.

The early origins of content marketing, basically.

Exactly, exactly. It was so ahead of itself. Time. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. Ended up transitioning into marketing and that's when I was able to work with you and your team on college marketing. So creating programs that reached college students and got them engaged in P and G brands to developing movies for Walmart. I developed some pretty awful content. I think it's still sold as a dvd, Secrets of the Mountain, but it was a. It was a movie that allowed us to gain access to display opportunities for Walmart that we had never unlocked. So again, content that was unlocking volume for the business. I later then got to work on Old Spice and Gillette. After 10 years of P and G, I ended up leaving to go to the Campbell's Soup company where I was able to work on one of the world's most iconic kids snack brands, Goldfish Crackers. That's where I was really able to help the brand transition into being a modern brand. From their packaging to their advertisement, to how we communicate to consumers. After seven years there and doing a stint in E commerce sales, I decided to transition over to Hinkle, where really was responsible for a lot of operational work. And then three years later, I got tapped for this wonderful job as the CMO for GoGo Squeeze.

It's an amazing journey and it's interesting because so many of the successful marketers we've interviewed here at the Speed of Culture podcast got their start at P and G. And it's been really a common thread. What were some of the things that you learned coming right out of college to work at P and G that you think still kind of sit with you today that are kind of lifelong skills?

Yeah, that's such a great question. I think it's three things. The first thing is how to interact with other people. P and G did a really good job at helping you understand how to be a manager, and I've taken a lot of that throughout my entire career. It's not about pushing people to their limits. That's not just the only thing that you need to do, but you also need to make sure that they have the resources and tools to be able to be successful. The second thing that they taught me was to be scrappy. I worked on some of the smaller brands. Febreze was really small when I started on the business. Old Spice was picking up. I was on Gillette Body Care. We didn't have the budget Slug Tide, so I was taught to be scrappier with my dollars so I could get stronger returns and invest more into the business. So they definitely taught me how to spend money properly. And then the final thing, it was just have fun. I was in the beginning of my career so stressed out because P and G had this whole terminology of up and out, where if you weren't successful within a certain time frame, you would have to leave the organization. But after the first year, I learned to relax and just have fun. And I now do that all the time. I'm not stressed. I'm selling products to consumers, and there's much more bigger things happening in the world than selling products. So I'm now going into situations, extremely relaxed and confident on what we're trying to accomplish.

That's great. And it's been 20 years since you started out at P and G, and the world's changed so much. You know, in 2002, the Internet itself was becoming a thing. You know, there were no iPhones, There was no YouTube, there was no Facebook, no Google. So a lot of the things Google was pretty early on at that point. But a lot of the things that we look at as verbs today, daily parts of our lives didn't exist. And now we're in a completely different world here in 2022. How have those changes and evolutions changed the way that you have to go about doing your job as a brand manager?

Oh, my gosh, it's ever changing. Like every single day, something changes. I've had to learn not to to be worried about keeping up. My team, my former teams, I think all of us have tried to keep up with every single thing that technology is doing, but you really can't. You need to either identify whether or not your brand is a brand that will lead the trend or a brand that follows. And I've really taken that into consideration. So just to give you an example, retail media, who knew that that was gonna blow up so massively? Like during that time, Triad Digital was the go to for all shopper media. But now all these retailers have new capabilities every single day.

It's like what used to be the Sunday circulars, right, Is now competing with.

Facebook and Google exploded and you know, we are all trying to figure it out. They're demanding us to spend more with them, which is good because it also helps our business grow.

Directly connected to your, you know, volume. Right?

Oh my gosh. And they have so much insight, like they know their shopper. So you want to plug into that. They're always coming out with new capabilities from OTT to new capabilities in search. So you're constantly trying to catch up. But what I've also learned is to form partnerships soon. So with a lot of these retail partners and even digital partners, I try to establish a relationship so that we understand their roadmap to innovation, so that I'm not constantly trying to keep up, but I'm along on their journey and I think that's super important.

Yeah, it's interesting you bring up retail media because what we found overall in technology is that the companies who control the Rails, right, whether it's Apple or Google, you know, they usually have the power. And in the case of kind of the CPG retailer mechanics, it's the retailers that control the Rails, right? They control the end customer. And because they control the Rails, they're dictating additional revenue streams that are being driven to them. Do you see? At some point it sort of tips over where, you know, you as sort of the manufacturer takes a step back and says, well, this doesn't really pay off for us anymore. Like we need to go direct. Is that starting to happen or is that part of the roadmap?

I think from a consumer data standpoint, if that was going to happen, it would have already happened. Back in the day when I was part of P&G's largest consumer relationship marketing program, millions of consumer data. So if that was going to be the case, they could have already, you know, a CPG company could have already done that.

Why haven't they, why haven't that work?

I honestly Think that it's just all about making sure that one, you're participating with a retailer so they have these capabilities, they want to continue to build those capabilities, they want to compete with other media channels. So you lean in as a good partner, you want to help them grow and succeed. I'm just baffled at how quickly they have become so dominant. And we all know that there's some tools that they're still ironing out the kinks, but there's some really strong capability, I think of Kroger and their whole Kroger precision marketing. The amount of insights that they can pull out of 8451 and be able to do precision targeting is just so incredible. And that's something that some brands just can't do because we don't have the strength to be able to capture that first party data and be able to target those consumers efficiently. So I think that's one of the biggest challenges that CPG have today.

And do you believe we're going to see a continued shift of consumers buying these things, items online, whether it's food and beverage or cpg? And how does that impact it? Because there's no checkout aisle. It's a whole different ball game.

Oh, totally.

So what does that mean for your business?

Yeah, I mean I think back 20 years ago salespeople were terrified over having a direct to consumer site, right. I mean just like because they thought.

It would cannibalize their and the retailer.

Would be pissed off and oh, price wars, blah blah. Amazon changed the game on that completely. And so I do believe that DTC is game now. Like every brand should have some form of a direct to consumer.

Especially post pandemic. Right. You know, when consumers were forced to buy groceries and package goods online because they couldn't go to the stores. That really accelerated the adoption of platforms like Instacart, Amazon, et cetera.

But I will say it's a slippery slope because if a retailer see that you're able to sell to their consumer or their shopper through your direct to consumer site and you have supply chain out of stocks at their retail, that's going to be the challenge. I think that's the challenge. Post pandemic.

You're like you can sell direct to consumer but you're saying you have no.

Inventory for me and that is the slippery slope. Then they start pulling back on shelf space and declining you on merchandising opportunities and forcing you to pay more in regards to services.

And that's still the bulk of your volume. So you really can't bite the hand that feeds you in that regard.

So now you have to think differently. It may not be just the products that you sell at retail. Maybe now you turn it into more of an incubator model where you're spending so much money to try to get product on shelf, but you're not really understanding the consumer's feedback on that initiative. Like qual and quant work, you can do that all day long.

Yeah. You're saying rolling out new products that that's what you're using the direct to consumer channel for.

Absolutely. We haven't started doing that at Materne, but in other places I have been able to do that successfully. And what it's not your three year in innovation. It has to be five years out, 10 years out. Because it's stuff that you want craft. I see a lot of big CPG companies doing it. It's pretty fly, it's flying under the radar. But it's the smartest move ever because not only are you able to get great feedback on the innovation, but you're also able to collect consumer data.

Right. It's a loss leader from a commerce standpoint, but it gets you insights and it gets you data which sets you up better for the future when you are ready to roll it out of the product. Absolutely.

And it's just not testing the product. Now you get to test the messaging frequency, just all the attributes that you would typically want to see in market. But now you have a controlled environment that you can do that in. In some instances you don't even have to send the product to the consumer. You can do all that testing right then and there in an environment, in an online digital environment and get so much feedback on innovation that you probably would have never been able to achieve.

Yep.

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What's interesting also about direct to consumer is consumers want to make their lives easier. So they probably don't want to have to buy. Go, go squeeze from your company and buy, you know, toothpaste from Colgate and line log into 20 different companies. Right. So there has to be an aggregator, unless maybe you're a png. So I think that that's probably one inhibitor from this D2C model is that consumers don't want to log in the 20th and you know, sites to buy 20 different things.

Totally agree. But P and G had it, right? They had P and G store. I think you and I were part of that first roll at it and.

It didn't work, right.

I don't know if it didn't work, but they shut it down. So something was up about it and I think it was probably a smart move. Like I think so many people think, oh, you know what, we'll sell all of our leftover inventory. Well, if consumers are not buying in store, why would they want to go to your direct consumer site?

How much does it cost for you to get them to your own site to do that payoff versus just converting.

Them to something completely different?

Right. That's interesting.

Yeah. So I definitely think it may have failed, but I think they took the learnings and they applied it to some incubator models that I've seen them launch.

Yeah. So that's really interesting in terms of. I've never thought about that. But you know, CPG companies using the direct to consumer channel, not to sell but. But basically to test and learn and collect data which sets you up to sell through traditional channels better in the future is a really interesting thing that I actually hadn't thought of.

The only other thing I would say is then also you see companies leveraging DTC for pr.

Right.

So I just, I think Cheez it just recently launched a new exclusive limited package.

Right.

And it's getting so much better.

Has done that. Or Oreo, some of the more iconic brands come up with new flavors that are just sort of like either nostalgic.

Or right, produce a hundred, get your payout because it's the media value market, it's not necessarily the product value.

Exactly. Really interesting stuff. So let's shift gears a little bit to your current role at Gogo Squeeze. First of all, how did you end up there? It's not one of the big players. It's not a Campbell's or P and G, but it's certainly a fast growing company and brand. And what is your role there and what are some of the things you're focused on?

Yeah, I never thought that I would ever be a cmo. It's crazy.

I always knew you would be.

Thank you. That's quite nice. I did not have that thought in mind. I saw it in others. I didn't have a lot of people that I could look up to in that CMO title, especially people who looked like me. So that was, it was quite shocking when I received the call from them. And I only received the call from them because two individuals at Materne knew me and recommended me highly. Recommended me. So I'm there because of them. But I'm also there because I actually know how to do amazing work in the marketing field. I have created a 20 year career of coaching and developing great talent. I've really made a mark in regards to strong advertising campaigns across Goldfish and Gillette and Old Spice, like, you name it. So I do believe that I can be in this CMO world. I decided to go to Matern because it's getting my feet wet. What better company to go to than a company that's growing double digits? Like, oh my gosh, we're on fire. And one of the fastest growing snack brands out there. Those are great places to be. And they're looking to grow from an innovation standpoint. They're looking to grow, they're looking to grow advertising investment. They're looking to understand their consumer and I'm the right fit to help them do that. With my background at P and G, it's actually been great. And what I'm doing right now, we are getting to know the consumer like massively. Like every under, like who's buying it, who's not buying it? Why are they not buying it? Our biggest challenge today is a challenge that I think most snack brands go through, especially brands that start off kid focus but want to pivot to something bigger. So we need to know why adults are not consuming Gogo Squeeze. Is it the name? Is it the form? Is it the flavor? Is it that people think that we're just applesauce? We're much more than applesauce. Applesauce is just apple puree. We have apple, strawberry, apple, banana. We have yogurts, we have pudding. Like, we have so much variety. So what's causing that? And we're diving deep into the understanding this consumer so that we can actually figure out where are their barriers and try to overcome those barriers in the next five years.

It's really about redefining the brand and driving expansion. You know, you talk about how the brand's on fire. So from what I'm hearing, it sounds like it's on fire with kids who are consuming it, but adults aren't. So you see? So you basically have a fast growing opportunity with kids and then you have an untapped opportunity with adults.

Absolutely. I mean, the adults are somewhat using it. They just won't tell you. It's like almost like a fear of saying, oh, I consume. Go, go, squeeze. It's shocking. And they're typically consuming it during some form of a sporting event. So you hear a lot of people say, oh, I went for a run. It was a long run. So I just grabbed one of my kids. Go, go, squeeze. Well, okay, if you needed it for that activity and you knew that was a nutritious snack that was delivering some benefit, why not consume it on an everyday basis? You know, what can we replace from the arsenal of snacks that you're currently consuming? Is it a flavor profile that we need to go to? Is it a form to your point, like, what can I.

Or maybe you need to create a new brand. Like, I worked with Victoria's Secret and they knew that their core brand was my mother's lingerie brand. Just like this might be my baby daughter's, which in my case is food brand. And Victoria's Secret came out with pink, which was a sub brand that went after the youth generation. So that's always so talk to me, as I'm sure you guys are thinking about things like that.

And it's not even just that kid and adult, it's also just lives within kids. So like I'm four years old, I'm consuming what my parents forced me to consume.

Right. Because they control every year it's different.

Or even sex.

Sex. Right, even sex.

Because now you're going to school and you're getting exposure to all these other kids snacks and you're like, I don't want this go, go, squeeze product.

Right.

And then, you know, we gotta be cool. And I think that's the part that I have to bring to the table. We have to actually become cooler cool.

To a six year old, which is six, which is different than marketing Gillette to men or other things you might have done in the past.

And you have these 13 year olds that are trying to establish their personality and fit in. And so you gotta really rethink how you build a portfolio for them young adults, like, what are they looking for? So I think we have just a lot of great work ahead of us.

And what are some of the marketing tactics that you've leaned into to kind of take advantage of the current success that you've had at Gogo Squeeze?

Yeah, you won't see us on linear tv, I will tell you that. Not right now. I can't see a future yet on.

Linear tv, which is signing that. You would never have said A P.

And G. Never would have said that's the first thing we were going to do. But I do believe in digital. Digital video, social influencers. Digital is my jam and I do believe in it. I think a lot of people think, oh, what about your mass reach media? Well, digital audio that has just blossomed during the pandemic because people are listening to podcasts and I guarantee you there's an ad being shown right now. So I'm leaning more into digital channels because I know that they'll work. And also again, I'm leaning into retail media groups because I do think that they have the right data to target my consumer.

Yeah. And it's directly connected to trade, as we talked about earlier.

Absolutely.

And in terms of marketing to that younger, the core consumer you have now, which is the kid you obviously have to market through, mostly the moms, I would imagine. And this new mom, this millennial mom turning into Gen Z mom is not like the mom that we marketed to in the year 2002 when the mom wasn't on the Internet. So now you have, you know, the people always ask me, what's the distinction between millennials and, you know, Gen X and the generation that came before? And the millennials were the first generation to grow up with the Internet household. Gen Z was the first generation that grew up with a mobile phone in the household. So it's a completely different, I think, brain that you're marketing to than it was for people prior.

Totally. Oh my gosh. And do you recall where we would make these shopper journey maps and it was like a linear journey because you knew that, oh, you can reach them with TV and then you can hit them up with a banner ad, then convert them to purchase in store with some in store marketing Activity. Now consumers are shopping everywhere. This everywhere commerce is like, it is just changing the game for us. And no longer can you plan a simple shopper journey map or a consumer journey map. You now have these complex journeys that you now have to find that consumer when they're interested in buying your product. So it's no longer about just serving up your ad. It has to be relevant in the context of what the channel that they're or the content that they're viewing. I think that's the challenge that most marketers have today to be relevant to actually get consumers to engage.

Absolutely. And I know that you guys recently launched new products. You recently launched Gogo Squeeze Happy Brains and Happy Immunes. So when, when a company like Gogo Squeeze launches new products, what's the process of going sort of like from fuzzy concepts and ideas actually getting something on the shelf?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean today or in the past, our team did a lot of work on, you know. Well actually let me back up. We had an amazing founder who had an amazing vision for the brand. So when he would tell us, hey, there's an idea, we would just run off and execute that idea. Because he was such a brilliant mind. I mean he developed a pouch, a fruit pouch. So you don't really fight back on what the guy would say. But I will tell you that now because, you know, innovation costs so much money, what we do now is actually going to a rigorous amount of consumer concept testing. So that's the general practice that I think a lot of CPG companies do. But we also now do a little bit more understanding of consumer preference on taste. We actually get them to experience the product, get a lot of feedback, go back and optimize and then at some point we actually pre launch with a retailer. So the initiatives that you just mentioned, we actually pre launched them with Walmart just to see how they would go and get some consumer feedback before we go naturally.

Connect it to your existing merchandising displays. You're just taking a small piece of it.

That is correct. And just launching it. And right now we had a very strong competitor in the brain space for applesauce and we're number one now at Walmart. That's huge. And that's the power of, you know, knowing our shopper at Walmart, understanding what they're looking for, the power of the brand and then, you know, being able to execute a strong marketing plan and.

Then once you see it take off at Walmart, now your sales team can be emboldened to step on the gas distribution Absolutely.

And that lessens the blow on the brand. P and L, because we now know we have a success story that we can actually share with all the retailers.

Yeah. And being in a smaller company like Gogo Squeeze, do you find that you can move more quickly than maybe at some of the larger companies in the past? And what advantages does that offer you guys?

Can we move quick? Too fast at times? I mean, it's shocking. And the advantage of moving fast is that you come up with an idea with a consumer and you're on shelf within eight months.

How long does it usually take at a larger company?

18 to 24 months.

Right. So you have a one to two year head start on other companies to get things into market.

Absolutely.

And if you have a strong brand, it might not be as strong as a tide, but still very strong. Especially with your core consumer. There's, you know, you don't really have many disadvantages at going to market more quickly.

No, no, absolutely. I mean, the only challenge that I see that we're faced with as we continue to grow and become a dominant player in the snacking industry, because I think a lot of players think that we're just an applesauce, like, but we're more than just an applesauce brand. We're a snack. And so I think a lot of more eyeballs are going to start appearing on us and we're gonna have to play with the big boys and our investments from a marketing perspective will have to grow.

Yeah. I mean, any great brand that expanded, you know, Old Spice went from deodorant to body wash, you know, it's. They have to tell that story on the brand equity pillars and why you should trust that versus the products that it makes.

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, you have to tell the consumer the why behind. Why do they need the product, when do they need it and what will the product do for them? And I think we haven't told that story fully. That's a huge opportunity.

Yeah. And you talked about the shift from linear tv and I always say the biggest difference now between a linear TV world is in a linear TV world, you can shove your message down through the consumer on your unique selling proposition. So. Right. And why they should buy it and talk about, you know, the price and the, the unique attributes of the product. Where, when you're in a social world, you know, you actually have to think about the consumer first. What are their unmet needs, what do they think about? How can you deliver them content which they will seek out, and then where's your brand fit in. So I'd imagine it's a completely different approach in terms of how you work with your agency partners and how you.

Oh, my gosh, we have an incredible integrated agency team 305 Horizon, which are sister agencies. Those guys believe in culture first, which I love. So it's not, oh, our applesauce is made with 100% fruits.

Right? That's exactly right.

That's like a walking attribute. Everybody that want to buy a snack want to buy something that's real.

Right.

But let's talk about culture and how we're building culture. It's more than just an applesauce brand. We're talking about, you know, what is this brand doing for my life? Because consumers no longer opt into brand attributes. They're opting into what is this brand going to do? And how will the brand fit into my lifestyle?

Yeah, I mean, we had Marcus Collins, who chief strategy Wieden, and Kennedy, who's incredibly insightful on where culture interacts with brands. And he talked about how logos used to be sort of like a legal mark, and they became a love mark, and now they became even more tribal, where it's more of a. A societal representation of what you're all about and how the role of brand has evolved. And that kind of ups the game for a marketer in this day and age.

And it's challenging. I mean, there's so many issues in the world, and consumers are looking for brands to step up and, you know, participate in conversations that we've never participated in, nor did we ever think we would participate in. Yeah, so that's a huge evolution.

Absolutely. So to wrap things up a bit, I mean, for younger members of our audience that are listening, that want to end up in the CMO seat which you're now in, what are some things you think they need to be focused on earlier in their career to arm themselves with the skills necessary to go down that path and ultimately end up there.

Absolutely.

Emerging channels like as, like, understand how TikTok works.

TikTok. Yeah. And how social media go deeper. Most brands typically have a specialist that is doing social media or digital media. No, like, you need to learn the platform. Don't.

Hands on keyboard.

Hands on keyboard.

Agree more.

Learn the platform. I mean, that's what I ended up doing. I learned every single platform.

Well, then, you know, it's possible.

Absolutely.

You know, then, you know, little nuances where, like, you can retarget consumers with display based upon what they search on Google. Little tactics like that can open up your mind to the Possibilities of going to market where if you don't even know that exists.

Absolutely right. I mean, I remember being on Homemade simple, running Google Ads on my own. Like that's what people need to do. They need to experience the platform. And I get it, you'll have agency partners, but trust that they'll do the work but also learn what they're doing. Right now I have a search engine optimization agency that just came on board to Matern and my team was like, oh great, we can just give all the work to them. And I was like, no, like you're going to actually learn SEO. Like we're going to go deep, understand.

And by learning the keywords, you learn attributes about your brand you might not have thought of.

Absolutely, absolutely. Don't just rely on the agency. Make sure you're embedded into all the processes so that something that they may not have thought of because they haven't been living the brand, you'll be able to share that with them. And it's just that's the number one thing I would tell people to do. Don't take your hands off the keyboard.

Absolutely. The other thing I'll add is you told me that earlier that you wouldn't have had this role at Materne if two people you knew didn't reach out to you. So how has the power of personal networks helped your career over time and how have you managed to cultivate that?

I mean, this is a great example.

Yeah, exactly.

You and I have known each other for 20 years. We've interacted over the course of the year. I think that establishing relationships, not building, not burning bridges is so critical. Again, we're selling products, make it fun, meet new people, understand their needs, understand what needs can you actually get from them. I always tell people in mentor relationships, I have to get something out of it. You have to get something out of it. Like it can't be one way. So as you're developing mentor or gaining mentorships or coaching opportunities, just make sure that it's not a one way situation. Always try to make it mutual.

Yeah. And I've also found it doesn't have to be opportunistic either. Meaning like if you're at a conference, don't just go after the person with the Nike or Google badge and try to, you know, sell to them. Sit down next to that person that works at a nonprofit or some company you've never heard of before because it's a long journey, you don't know where people are going to end up and it's just really about building as broad and diversified as a network as possible.

Totally. I totally agree with you.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has been amazing. So glad we finally got to do this. And it's always great to see you in person and to wrap things up. And, you know, we're called the speed of culture because we move fast. You're moving fast in the turn. What are some of the things that slow you down, personally, that allow you to kind of take a step back from this crazy world and get some balance in your life?

Yeah, you know, the thing that's slowing me down right now, I do believe it's just being able to spend more time with my family. I work extremely hard. I've always worked hard. And I've learned, you know, over time that I need to ensure that I'm focusing on things that are a priority. I'm my husband. We currently have a one year old.

Oh, wow. Another future gogo squeeze consumer.

He is currently of Google's consumer consumer Marley. And I'm already noticing I'm missing out on some opportunities. Like he started walking last month. I was traveling, so I missed that. So how am I making up for that time? And I think that me overthinking that is actually causing me to slow down because when I talk to Michael, he's like, wait, actually, Mark, you're doing a lot for our family and you're actually present a lot of the times. So I think that's what's slowing me down is when I overthink, like overthinking family, overthinking work, I have to stop overthinking.

That's a really interesting insight. Well, thank you again for taking the time. I know you're really busy, both personally and professionally. It's been great to have you on. I know the audience will get a ton of value. On behalf of Susie and the Adwee team, I want to thank Mark Edmondson, our special guest, once again for joining us. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, we'll see you soon, everyone. Take care. The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Suzy as part of the Adweek Podcast Network and a guest creator network. You can listen subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting Adweek.com podcast. To find out more about Suzy, head to Suzy.com and make sure to search for the speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google podcasts or anywhere else podcasts are found. Click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Suzy, thanks for listening.

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