Year One of The Speed of Culture: 2022's Greatest Hits

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To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of susee. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up. Welcome to the Speed of Cult. Hey guys, it's Matt. Today we're going to have our special end of year episode where we're going to run through the next 40 minutes of the highlights of our most popular episodes of the year. You're going to hear fast growing consumer trends from big brands like Cadillac, TikTok, Samsung, Budweiser and more. It's been such an amazing year at this podcast and we're going to be back even bigger and better than ever before in 2023. So hope you enjoy this year and wrap up. Hope you enjoy the holiday season with your friends and we'll see you in 2023. I guess the question I'd have for you, and you talked a little bit earlier about authenticity, but if you had to say what is the biggest driver behind TikTok's meteoric growth? What would you say it is?

The creator community. What is so special about this platform is we've essentially built a space and have given the tools for people to come together, showcase their talents, eventually monetize from those talents, but more importantly bring like minded people together. So there are all these communities within TikTok that cover everything from like plants, plant talk to like book lovers and book talk to, you know, there's witch Talk. People who love, you know, the, the idea of witches and are really into witches. There's golf talk, any, any community you could possibly be interested in there. It exists on this platform. And the other kind of key piece about TikTok is it's built on a content graph, not a social graph. So it's all about watching TikTok, not checking TikTok.

It's about what you love versus who you know.

Exactly. And so people are spending a movie's worth of time on the platform because they constantly are served up content they're interested in. The algorithm does a really good job of learning what you like and continuing to put that in front of you.

And you talk about the creator community being so very powerful. If you are a creator and you want to actually start to build a presence on TikTok, you know what, what are the first couple things that you'd suggest someone does to really get going? Because even to me, who does some thought leadership, who does speaking, etc. It's intimidating to me. I just don't even know where to start. You know, at least with LinkedIn, I know I could just write something or film a quick video, but I feel like that won't fly on TikTok, you know, so what, what do I do first?

Actually, it is very simple. And the same advice we give creators is the same advice we give brands. It is just like whatever you want to talk about, whatever you want to showcase, just record yourself doing it, make, but do it in a very authentic way. That is the key is that you don't overthink it, you don't over produce it, you don't that you just kind of show up as you are and it's a little bit of trial and error. People will create a lot of content on the platform and one thing will just like it will get so many views and then you'll realize like, oh, I guess that got views because my joke was funnier or because I had a red shirt on or like, it's random, right? It's really about what people find interesting and engaging. So. So don't overthink it, Matt. Like you have so much. You, for instance, as a thought leader have so much to say. I would just start making short videos with your pov.

I'm right after this podcast. I'm jumping on convinced. Do it, have to do it. I also love the form factor in that you talk about authenticity. And for so long people were just so hungry for likes in the Facebook Instagram era. And I do think it made Them post things that were maybe slightly less authentic to kind of game the system. And I think just given the way that the TikTok algorithm works, where you're seeing content from people who you don't even follow based upon what, what you like and your interests, I think that makes people probably change the way they approach it and in so in a much more authentic way.

Well, I remember back in the day you mentioned Diffty in your book, right? Did it for the Instagram. And TikTok is almost the complete opposite of that. Right. Like people aren't doing things for the TikTok, they're doing things that they love. They're putting it on TikTok and other people are starting to engage with it because they love it too.

You talk about the creator economy and how you think it's going to continue to grow, and obviously that's a byproduct of this continued decentralization of media, where now everybody has a voice. When we were growing up, there were three channels on tv. You could only listen to the music that was played in heavy rotation on Hot 97 or one of a handful of radio stations. And now you can get content from anywhere, music from anywhere. In some ways it's almost too much. But what we've seen happening, and I know that you guys have made several investments in this space, is the top creators are really starting to build and you are, I think, included in that. Audiences that are starting to become in demand and enviable of what only traditional media companies used to have. Why do you think the creator economy is going to continue to grow? And what do you think brands should be looking at when thinking about how to sort of use the creator economy to propel their business?

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think the creator economy will continue to grow because of the access and because of the technology and because of the evolution, because of the honesty of Web3, because of the accountability of Web3, there will be a real reliance on community that's in demand, community that is like, dedicated solely to the voice of the creator. And the problem is that when we're so saturated with content and choices, we still ultimately can only consume so much that there's a belief in a trust in a particular brand, in a particular individual. You know, the creator economy is brand. It's not as much just individual, it's a certain creator creative, an entity that has a voice in a community that they can galvanize and give them exclusive experience and exclusive assets and exclusive whatever that may be that they will feel pride in. And I think that what you can't get from Web two and Web one is that ability to take from your community. And I think that ultimately is why the creator economy will prevail because you can continue to understand your audience and continue to give them what they want. And in general, we were never given 100% of what we wanted before for and now we can be.

And going back to Jay Z, you know, he said, I'm not a businessman, I'm a businessman. I mean, that's basically what it's all about, right? It's about the power of the personal brand.

Yeah, I mean, hip hop to me were the first creators, you know, the first creator economy. It was Puff Daddy, Dr. Jay Z. I make music and in and around music, I distribute alcohol, clothing, film, TV. And this was in 1998, 99, 2000.

Yep, they reinvented it.

Fat Farm, Russell Simmons. That was the creator economy.

Absolutely. So now we're in a world and moving on to the next session of NFTs where not only, you know, I had Sophia Hernandez who heads business marketing and TikTok, and going to what you were saying in terms of people being able to leverage their personal brands, she's saying one of the biggest things you're seeing on TikTok is this kind of community driven commerce where basically you have a creator, they have a huge audience and they're interacting with their audience and then they're starting to slot in products that they're selling. And so you're seeing that kind of take place in more the traditional e commerce sense. But now you have this whole world of NFTs where essentially somebody can mint or license memorabilia, collectibles, tokens for access, et cetera, into a digital token that you can buy and use with things. And I think a lot of people think about NFTs. The reason why people write it off is because they look at, oh, why can't I just screenshot that JPEG? We've heard that a million times. But why are NFTs more than just a JPEG that you can screenshot?

Yeah, I mean, I think like I confuse people sometimes when I answer it this way. But if you really tried to unravel the things that we've come to accept in the physical, your mind could go crazy. Like why?

Why?

I went to the Basquiat exhibit yesterday and it was mind blowing, it was incredible. But when you walk around with your 8 year old and your 8 year old says to you, I could draw that, right? And I say, I know but you need to understand what he was saying, what he made it with, the time, that it was who he was. And now you understand the value. That's very hard to understand at 8. It's really hard to understand for some people ever. How is this piece of art worth this much money? How is this piece of cardboard with Ted Williams face on it signed by, with a pen from back then, so much money? I can answer it by telling you what Ted Williams meant to people, how old this card is, what it stories behind it, the stories behind it, what it took to be preserved this long. And you'll start to find the value.

They talk about how people answer the phone or what the business cards at every little touch point becomes the brand. And sometimes you have to get in the weeds.

Yeah, exactly.

And knowing you, I know that you like, you know, being strategic, but you also like getting your hands dirty. You like.

Yeah, I like a line job because it's where you learn, right? You know, like, you don't want to do it every day, but you got to get in, particularly, I think, when things are new, right? You got to get in the weeds. You know, One of the questions you had asked me was like one of those big learning moments. And when I first took over advertising for the whole company at Microsoft, one of the, like, it blew people's minds. And to me, it was the simplest thing in the world, was there'd been the agencies of record pitching one big, massive, important B2B campaign for 18 months, months. They just kept coming in and nothing was landing. And they go, go back, go back to the drawing board. And we just weren't marketing, like, in a big above the line way. And I just started and it was like my first week. And, you know, so they brought in some new agencies, and the existing agencies.

Was that Crypt and Hoarder. Is that where the genius was? The existing agency stuff was, oh, wow, okay.

And it was kind of like, we have to go to bed, Steve and everybody on, like, Tuesday, so I guess we should go. And I was like, but there's this genius but. And they're like, oh, but it's not right for us and they don't get us and it's too off. And I was like, but we have a whole weekend. And I remember talking to Mitch, the CMO at the time, and I was like, well, what if I got in a plane and went and worked with them all weekend? Monday we'll come back and if we're there, great. We can bring both ideas. And if we're not There, no harm. We'll go with the okay idea. And I was like. And I'm so glad I did it. It's funny, I'm still great friends with Rose and Ty, or Rose and Ty. But the thing that I see a lot in my career and a lot of the best moments I've had is we broke down the wal between agency and client. They let me into the workroom, we stayed up till midnight, two in the morning, Then they'd be like, go away and come back at 8am and then rip it apart and then give us some time. And we worked together for 72 hours.

And that's. I mean, that is how it should be. How it should be. I mean, we talk about a lot the hippo, which is the highest paid person's opinion. And my experience is like, agency goes behind these walls and they come up with this incredible idea or what they think is incredible, and then they pitch the hippo. And during the meeting, the hippo shows up late. Sometimes they're on their phone, which is to drive me crazy.

Right.

And ultimately it's like your champions, like, I don't know, it matters what the hippo said, whoever that is. And a lot of times their decision isn't made on data. It could be based on what their daughter told them when they were dropping off at school or TV show they heard. And that's going to basically jade their opinion in a certain direction, which may or may not be right for the business. But there's no data behind that decision.

Exactly. You know, and I think that's the challenge we all have with creative ideas. Right. That's why creative testing, I think, is so interesting, Right?

Absolutely.

It's such an interesting space. We're doing more and more of it with audio. We're trying to do more and more of it with you guys in audio because, yeah, I think, you know, just getting a gut check like testing doesn't tell you all the answers, but it prevents the disaster and it sometimes it helps you find a spark of genius you might have missed.

Absolutely. I'm often asked, what's the ROI of research? I'm like, well, what's the ROI of a seatbelt? Right. It only matters if you really need it. Right? Yeah. So we're gonna get into our next section called Culture Watch. As you know, this podcast is called the Speed of Culture. And Suzy is a tool that really enables insights and research at the speed of culture. And we're gonna ask you a couple questions, one of which you've already answered. So we're gonna jump into the next three in classic Gale trove men form. She's making her rules up as we go along, and I can roll with the punches. So I'm gonna ask you three questions and we'll touch upon the one that you just answered well, and just answer quickly in 30 seconds how you feel about this particular topic, and then we'll dive in. Question number one is, what do you think the fastest growing industry will be in the next few years and why?

Sure. I think audio is growing crazy fast. Right. On a huge base, which is kind of the exciting part of it. Obviously, I'm a little biased, of course, but, you know, broadcast radio is still reaching 9 out of 10Americans because it's live and it's human and it's unscripted. And it's not just a place to hear music. It's a place to actually have a conversation and not be alone. Yeah, it's a really bizarre business. Most people don't understand. So that's why, you know, I think with all, you know, with the world's music in my hand right now on this phone, we've certainly seen people listen in their cars, they listen on their smart speakers, they listen on their laptops, on their phones, on their watches, on TVs. But we're seeing listening continues to grow and to more types of content. And I think in this moment where I think the promise of digital was, it was gonna unite us all in a Kumbaya lovely. The world is connected and God, what we're seeing is the opposite.

Right.

It's brought out our worst selves. It's become a place that makes you feel worse, not better. And I think that's why you're seeing a lot of content that's live and human companionship. Conversation media seems to be growing everywhere, and I think that's why we're seeing this massive new podcast rocket ship grow. Right? Podcasting is really similar. It's mostly and unscripted. The other thing I think that's fueling audio growth, particularly podcasting growth, is I think. And you were kind of way ahead of the understanding millennials with Mr. Youth back in the day. I think we really, as marketers missed and most content companies misunderstood millennials. We kept talking about short attention spans, but we forgot we were talking about the most curious, interested in educated generation in the US Connected and educated and interested. Right. So we were going, oh, 140 characters. You can only handle 15 seconds of my advertising. And yet they're listening to three hour.

Podcasts about revisionist they're binge watching 20 shows on Netflix.

Exactly. Entire seasons of smart, interesting content. So, you know, that's why I think podcasting has really filled a void, particularly for that millennial audience. Right. Who are smart and interested and curious. So I think we're gonna see audio growth just continue. And wireless headphones, now your ears are connected to the grid. So think about that. We were consuming most all our content through our eyes, and now our ears are connected.

Yep. So it's like, I mean, people think AirPods are gonna be the future of the smartphone. Yeah. And it's the one wearable device that's really taken on in a true utilitarian way for consumers. I mean, I forget they're in my ears. I wear them the entire day. And it creates such a utility, I never thought. And it's all based on audio.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that's why, you know, I think audio is destined for continued growth and sustainability, but most marketers don't understand much about it. So that's the opportunity.

What do you think will be the fastest growing product or product category in next few years?

Yeah, I think the obvious answer of the week has to be Metaverse. But what that means, I think it's, you know, it's like saying Internet back in the, you know, mid-90s. What exactly does that mean? I think we're all in a learning phase at iHeart. We've made some announcements. We're going to take a lot of the success we've had in our events business. So we do, you know, hundreds of events, from, you know, the big jingle balls to small local events, music events, concerts, and we're going to start bringing events into the metaverse so we can connect fans and artists and brands in some new ways. And we're going to start learning. So we're going to go where consumers are. We've announced we're going to go into Roblox. We'll be creating I Heartlands, where now we can bring, you know, without all the physical world costs. Right. Of what it costs to put on a giant festival or a live event in the real world. I think we can do even more interactive and more engaging opportunities that bring the fan closer and closer to the.

Artist and the community, around the artist and the community. What I found as my career progresses is it's not only the people that are working for me now, but when I say people who used to work for me go on and do great things, you know, there's no greater feeling to know that you had some role in their success.

Exactly. It's fun. It's actually really fun. So we set a number of different goals. We'll set a financial goal for ourselves. We'll set. This year, one of our goals is we want to make sure that we shoot or produce 50% of our work with minority directors and editors by race, gender. That was spurred on because I watched a Netflix documentary by the Geena Davis Institute called this Changes Everything and and was shocked at how little had changed behind the camera. And I thought, we're not as big an agency as some, but because our clients tend to be pretty big, we have some weight when it comes to production. We produce a lot of work. And I thought to myself and shared it with the others on our executive committee and they agreed that if we made decisions that said 50% of our work for all these brands, Geico, Oreo, Doordash, et cetera, we want to shoot and edit with minority directors by race, gender and ability, that we could encourage more of these production companies to sign on more of these directors in order to keep our business. And we're achieving it.

That's amazing.

And I remember at the beginning of the year we were like, wow, is 50% too much? Are we going to be able to get there? Should we set a two year limit for ourselves? We didn't know that, but every client we went to in advance said we're on board and it's not been easy. Sometimes we have to put some of our own money and skin in the game to make sure that treatments look good or we have to add extra time or we have to really go on a limit for maybe somebody who has on paper, less experience. But we are achieving that goal and we believe in the long run it's a different kind of legacy than just making ourselves better. We're hoping it impacts the industry in a positive way.

Yeah, I think as a leader you need to. I mean, that's an amazing initiative. And I'm sure you have similar goals around diversification of your staff as well. And these things aren't easy, but they're not meant to be easy. And I think you're bringing diversity of thought and idea along with it, which will make you stronger and more competitive as well.

Absolutely. In fact, the whole way we tell stories is different because of the way that we're staffed as a company. The stories we tell, the arcs of the stories are different. And the truth is it isn't easy, but we were able to do it a lot faster than, I think a lot of people. People give themselves Too long a Runway. They say, I'll get to this by 2030. No. Well then there's no fire. You have to have a sense of urgency about the things that are important. And to me, the reason diversity is an easy thing to get behind, it is so clearly tied to business goals. Every study says if you have a diverse leadership team, your business goals are better. So I'm like, well then that's a no brainer. I work for a publicly held company. It's my responsibility to deliver business goals. If I know that investing in D and I is going to help me achieve my business goals, then that's a no brainer. Done sign. Where do I sign? Right. I don't. Those things are, it's like investing in one is actually helping me get further in the other. They're not false binary choices. One is actually a cumulative, has a cumulative effect on the other 100%.

And talking about goals, you can't, you can't achieve your goals unless you compete and you win. Content is consumer first. Consumers identify themselves with culture and that's a different approach. And it's an approach that many brands have tried and failed and other brands like Nike have done a great job in doing. Where I've seen a lot of companies struggle, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, is that when you try to insert culture into a brand, right. Don't you have to strip down what that brand really means, where they have a right to play and connect them together so it's not a total mess? Like what is that process? Because I can imagine sort of risky business in some ways doing that.

I mean, 1,000%, you hit the nail right on the head. You said, what does the brand mean? Culture is the meaning making system. Culture is the way by which we make meaning. And while the brand may intend to mean one thing that isn't necessarily aligned to how what it means in minds of people. So the brand may say, we think we're cool, we're hip, we see the world this way. People go, we don't see you that way. And therefore there's a great incongruence. So it's not enough for us to have a desired meaning. We have to understand what we mean in the eyes of people and then use our marketing communication to close the gap. So the notion of like inserting ourself in culture, I don't know if that's the best verb to use. We insert ourselves in it instead, we ingratiate ourselves into it. And that is culture. It's the System by which people see the world and operate in the world. It's our governing operating system. So the idea then is, how does our brand become congruent with people's governing operating system? And that happens because they are congruent. The brand sees the world the way I do, and because the brand sees the world the way I do, I use the brand to express my identity. It's not about the brand, it's really about me. And when the brand and I are congruent, I go, oh, man, that brand is for me. Because I see the world similarly. When I use that brand, I use it as a mark of identity. I mean, this is, like, interesting. Like, if you look at, like, the history of brand, it's no surprise that we are here. Like, the technology has helped usher where. Where we are. Right? So if you go back to, like, the first time brands were sort of a thing, this is like the 1700s. Josiah Wedgwood, the first incorporated brand, late 1700s, you know, he made pottery, and he bring his pottery to market with other people's pots or pottery, and he said, I don't want people to mistake their pottery for mine. So he put his name on it, Right, As a mark of ownership. As a legal mark of ownership. Right. And the idea then, if you were doing brand marketing, is you put your label on things to say that it belonged to you. Right? You fast forward two and a half centuries later, marketers start saying, oh, you know what? If we use psychology, then we can actually influence more people to consume. We started using value propositions, positioning statements, memory structures, associations, so that when people see the brand, all these things flood in their mind. And therefore they have more trust, more credence in the brand. They're more likely to buy the brand.

Equity pillars is really what you're describing, right?

Exactly. So the brand moves from being a trust mark to a legal mark. I mean, from a legal mark to a trust mark, right? Not just a mark of legality. It's like, I trust it because I know all these things about it. Come 1980s, marketers say, well, it's not enough people just to buy our stuff. We want people to love us when people have relationships with us. So marketers started telling really big anthemic stories where the brand was like a character inside the narrative, right?

You think of like Apple's 1984 spot.

Michael Jackson and Pepsi, exactly 1,000%. And so in this way, the brand moves from being a trust mark, elevates from being a legal mark to being a love mark. Right. Satya Sachi said. Right, the love mark. Today, the most powerful brands have evolved from being a love mark to being a identity mark where culture is the driving vehicle by which people decide what I buy.

Finding the right audience shouldn't feel like doom scrolling with Experian. It doesn't. Experian syndicated audiences help you reach holiday shoppers, car buyers and more across over 200 top platforms with over 2,400 pre built audiences. There's no more doomscrolling. It's audience targeting you can trust. Made simple. Learn more@experian.com adweek that's experian.com adweek.

You actually hit on what I want to talk about next, which was the macro less about events and just more in terms of what that means for deal making. What are companies looking at now? Obviously differently than say 2020 or 2019. And how's that impacting? I guess the way that you go about your business?

I would say I wouldn't even go that far back, Matt. I'd go back to the beginning of this year. Not even 2119. Forget pandemic for a moment. The M and A activity was very robust. End of 21 rolling into 22. Right now, it's anybody's guess. Money is expensive. Money is becoming more expensive every single day. When that happens, that impacts valuations. One only need look at the real estate market and see living in la. The real estate prices were so ridiculous and all of a sudden, you know, this is really a 1% story, so don't judge me on this. But I ran into one of the famous brokers here in Beverly Hills who say, I said, how's the market in real estate? And this is a good metaphor for life in general. I said, how's it going? He said, well, I listed a house in Bel Air the other day for 19 and a half million. And he said a few months ago I would have had five over asking offers within the first week. He said, it's a couple, three weeks and I haven't gotten one offer that starts to tell you what's happening in real estate at the upper level. I think we're going to see a similar kind of moment here across the board in people's spending habits and that will impact M and A. You can't afford to pay what you could before because everybody has to pay for money in some way and it's more expensive. And that has a, you know, obviously a trickle down effect on valuations. Now the private equity community's got nothing but cash sitting there. And as valuations Come down, this is when they're going to strike. You know, people make money in different cycles. And right now, people who have fresh powder, I think are going to be able to exact some interesting opportunities because valuations are down. So, you know, when you listen to somebody like a Mark Pritchard, global chief marketing or, you know, chief brand officer for Procter and Gamble, say earlier this summer, Procter and Gamble traditionally doubles down on marketing expense in tough times because it's an opportunity to, you know, grab market share. And so that's the same mentality when those who have the resources in tough economic times are gonna score because you can buy lower and, you know, ultimately take advantage of the trough. And, you know, that's to be very clear, Mark didn't say he was doubling his media spend. That is not what he said. And I want to be clear on that because wouldn't want him to be upset. But what he says is they look at marketing in general as a place that you continue to invest in economic, you know, slowdowns.

Absolutely. It might be a shift from, you know, less brand based to more performance based. There could be drops in CPMs based upon lack of demand that could allow them to be more efficient with their media spend.

You brought up something right there, Matt, that we've been very thoughtful about, I think at medialink, I made up a word a couple of years ago which we have been using in the marketplace quite frequently. And it was the two words you just mentioned as two different distinct sets of marketing thought. But we put them together. You said brand or performance. And we made up a word at Medialink back in 2018. It's called brandformance. Because we think, and we've learned this through the lens of several of our partners, we think that the same discipline, one applies to what we would traditionally call performance marketing should be similar to what you do in brand marketing. In other words, brand. So we've put those two words together. This may go back to when I was an English major. So I make my list of 11 words, maybe 12 if I add the other one, and I make up words as I go along. When I hear something where a light bulb went off with brandformance. So that's an area that we are very, very focused on.

Yeah, it's about being really about being disciplined and about connecting the high level.

Impression based metrics and the data loop that you would definitely look at performance marketing and say we need it. Well, why wouldn't you apply that same thing to brand market?

100%, I think in boom Times, a lot of times companies might be a little too loosey goosey with their spend. But you know, I think the best companies now are the one, you know, Google announced they're tightening. Everybody from Google down is doing it. So I think we can learn a lot from that.

Yeah, no, look, I mean you read that there was, you know, discontent amongst the troops at Google because they're losing some of their free lunches or. And g. Why? And you saw that there was a look and this is a, this is a talent question. Back to one of the teas. You know, there was an uproar from people saying, oh my God, Google, we make so much money, we have so much cash in the bank. Why are you telling us we can't have free lunches? And their CEO, I think to his credit said like grow up. Everybody needs to, no matter what stage you're in, everybody needs to be thoughtful about money, how money is spent and we're not immune to it. And it was kind of a. I happen to think Sundar was 1000% right and the UP employees was wrong. He's not saying we're running out of money or we don't. We're just being a little more judicious about how we look forward because we're seeing some economic, you know, look, none of us could prepare for a pandemic. We didn't expect that you couldn't make moves or not make moves or make economic decisions in January of 2020, knowing that we were two months away from locking down our world. But in macroeconomic issues, when you can see the storm clouds, then you should be doing things more thoughtfully. That's just good business. That's business 101.

In terms of the Samsung business. The consumer electronics, consumer technology space obviously has a lot of heavy hitters and competitors, right? You have companies like Apple and Amazon and Google, all of which, and Microsoft, all of which have leaned in to sort of create an ecosystem around the consumer, right? They have products in consumers hands, they try to get physical products in their home, they try to create software and services surrounding that. And I look at Samsung as a company that has equally as big as an opportunity, right? You have your phones in people's hands, you have your TVs and in people's homes. But where the company doesn't seem to have leaned in as much in the past, where it seems to be getting more into now, is creating that ecosystem creating kind of the consumer interface to almost like lock them in to a Samsung ecosystem? Is that a big part of what you Think about in terms of the strategy and bring Samsung to market.

It is a huge part. 1969 is when Samsung Electronics started just making TVs.

Yeah.

You know, and if you fast forward from those very humble beginnings, we're in 72% of households in America and I think one in four households claim to have three or more Samsung products. That was the moment when we realized actually there are people with multiple products and actually they need to learn how to connect them. And now we're in an environment where people are saying, okay, I want much more customized products, products that really help me shine as an individual. And then I want these products to connect so that it can make my life much easier. So we've been embarking for a very long time now to really think about building, creating sustainable products so that people can live a much more connected life. I would say that you see this best if you come in at 837, you can see that we do a lot sustainability. Discover Samsung is a quarterly sales event that we have every, you know, every quarter where we bring all the use cases that people, people say, I have a pain point on ABC and we'll have a use case and then what we'll do is we'll share how people can buy into that use case in a much more sustainable way, in a much more cost efficient way. So we do all that good stuff. But really it fundamentally comes down to what is the consumer wanting? We know, right? So there's general consumers and then you've got your GenMC consumers. We know that they genuinely want products to really reflect their personal needs and styles. So if you go upstairs, you'll see that we have a bespoke home. And so there's a whole line of home appliances where you can actually change the colors, like our refrigerators. You can create your own designs in the doors or you can go and pick a watch which has multiple faces and colors as well, because that is where people are going, like, you know what, I really don't want to look the same as you. I really want to be different and to be celebrated for that. So that's a huge priority for us.

I think.

I mean, sustainability. Everyone talks about sustainability, but not everyone has the same impact on sustainability. When you're a company like Samsung. I mean, we have an obligation because we're so large, we have an obligation and thankfully it's in our DNA to really want to, to do a good job here. And so I don't think consumers know as much as what we're doing. I would even Argue internally when I quote some of the numbers what we're doing in sustainability. People are like, really now? Like, did you not know? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like I tell them, I'll say to them, how much recycling do you think we do in the US alone? We were like, well, I don't know, I'm like, we're one of the leading recyclers in the U.S. i mean, people don't know that, that we're recycling. I think it was like £100 million of E waste every year. You know, like you'll buy a washing machine or a refrigerator and say it's energy efficient. People are like, yeah, okay, but actually all the products that we've made since 2009, we were tracking it and we were seeing how many we had sold. So, okay, if we were to actually have those efficiencies, how much CO2 emission would we actually save? And it was something like 300 million tons of CO2 emissions we would have saved. So come with 65 million cars off the road, people were like, wow. And so we need to do a better job of telling people so that if we can help people understand that then they can make better decisions when they're buying their appliances or their phones so that they can make a sustainable choice. Now I am, anyone who's got kids, anyone who cares about the environment, they'll go, yeah, yeah, yeah. But really every company needs to get behind this because it really is. The climate crisis is real and it's escalating and yeah, the people think about it, it's global.

Do you believe we're going to see a continued shift of consumers buying these things, items online, whether it's food and beverage or cpg. And how does that impact it? Right, because there's no checkout aisle. It's a whole different ball game.

It may not be just the products that you sell at retail. Maybe now you turn it into more of a incubator model where you're spending so much money to try to get product on shelves, but you're not really understanding the consumer's feedback on that initiative, like qual and quant work, you can do that all day long.

You're saying rolling out new products, that that's what you're using the direct to consumer channel for?

Absolutely. We haven't started doing that at Maturne, but in other places I have been able to do that successfully. And it's not your three year end innovation, it has to be five years out, 10 years out. Because the stuff that you want craft, I see A lot of big CPG companies doing it. It's flying under the radar, but it's the smartest move ever because not only are you able to get great feedback on the innovation, but you're also able to collect consumer data.

Right. It's a loss leader from a commerce standpoint but it gets you insights and it gets you data which sets you up better. Better for the future when you are ready to roll it out of the hotel.

Absolutely. And it's just not testing the product now you get to test the messaging frequency.

Sure.

Just all the attributes that you would typically want to see in market. But now you have a controlled environment that you can do that in. And in some instances you don't even have to send the product to the consumer. You can do all that testing right then and there in an environment, in an online digital environment and get so much feedback on innovation that you probably would have never been able to achieve.

What's interesting also about direct to consumer is consumers want to make their lives easier. They probably don't want to have to buy. Go, go squeeze from your company and buy toothpaste from Colgate and log into 20 different companies. There has to be an aggregator unless maybe you're a P and G. So I think that that's probably one inhibitor from this D2C model is that consumers don't to want, want to log into 20 different, you know, sites to buy 20 different things.

Totally agree. PNG had it.

Right.

They had PNG store. I think you and I reported that.

Sure were. Yeah.

First roll at it.

It didn't work, right.

I don't know if it didn't work but they shut it down. So something was up about it and I think it was probably a smart move. Like I think so many people think oh you know what, we'll sell all of our leftover inventory. Well, if you consumers are not buying in store.

Right.

Why would they want to go to your direct consumer?

How much does it cost for you to get them to your own site to do that? How does that pay off?

Just converting them to something completely different.

Right. That's interesting.

Yeah. So I definitely think it may have failed but I think they took the learnings and they applied it to some incubator models that I've seen them look.

Yeah. So that's really interesting in terms of. I never thought about that but you know, CPG companies using the direction to consumer channel not to sell but. But basically to test and learn and collect data which sets you up to sell through traditional channels better in the future is a really interesting thing that I actually hadn't thought of.

So the other thing I would say is then also you see companies leveraging DTC for pr.

Right.

So I just, I think Cheez it just recently launched a new exclusive limited package.

Right.

And it's getting so much.

Yeah, Doritos has done that. Or Oreo. So many more iconic brands come up with new flavors that are just sort of like either nostalgic or. Right.

Produce 100.

Right.

Get your payout because it's the media value.

Marketing.

Right, the product value.

Exactly. Really interesting stuff. So let's shift gears a little bit to your current role at Gogo Squeeze. First of all, how did you end up there? You know, it's not one of the big players. It's not a Campbell's or png, but certainly a fast growing company and brand. And what is your role there and what are your. Some of the things you're focused on?

Yeah. I never thought that I would ever be a cmo. It's crazy.

I always knew you would be.

Thank you. That's quite nice. I. I did not have that thought in mind. I saw it in others. I didn't have a lot of people that I could look up to in that CMO title, especially people who looked like me. So that was. It was quite shocking when I received the call from them. And I only received the call from them because two individuals at Materne knew me and recommended me highly. Recommended me. So I'm there because of them.

Speaking of balance, you know, a lot of marketers also have to face this balance between upper funnel and lower funnel.

Right.

Brand building and performance marketing. I saw a couple weeks ago that you guys were named the world's most effective marketer, you know, behind the global FE index, which is an amazing award. I spent 20 years in the advertising industry before getting the software. I know how important that is. And when an accolade is on behalf of your team, how do you become an effective brand in your advertising and marketing? When you are spending money on above the line that's maybe slightly less measurable. How are you able to connect that into a measurement plan that allows you to be confident in your spend in this market?

Yeah, well, we take a full funnel approach to everything now. So it's not an or, it's an and you need to still build the brand affinity and top of mind awareness for that mental availability for consumers at the top of the funnel. But then you need to use data and you need to use the community that you've built to drive conversion at the bottom of the funnel. So we're putting as much effort into developing creative solutions at the bottom of the funnel than we were than we are at the top of the funnel as well. So for us it's an and it's not an or. And as you mentioned, you know, we use all the modern marketing mix models to evaluate our effectiveness and measurement. And it's been amazing for us as we set out on a journey to become the world's most effective creative marketer. And we achieved that in 2022. So it was really about we got recognized by Cannes Lyon as market of the year. This year WARK has us as number one in creative and creative effectiveness. And as you mentioned, the Global YEFI index just recognized us as the most effective marketer in the world. So it's an amazing accomplishment. But we're not satisfied with that yet. We want to stay at the top of that mountain, but now evolve with digital integration in the bottom of the funnel and continue to focus on building that brand love at the top of the funnel and driving conversion all at the same time.

You've also talked about sort of the EV future and obviously this is just a hot button in our culture, society, in the business world, et cetera. How are you looking to build that sort of credibility for the Cadillac brand in the EV space? A lot of your competitors are entering. The space is obviously a huge opportunity. We'd love to hear a little bit more about that.

Yeah, I think honestly our job on the marketing side is communicating the credibility. The credibility is going to come from GM's strategy and Cadillac's position within that strategy. It's really interesting when you look at, for a company that's been around for however long and has all of these 120 years for Cadillac, but has come from internal combustion engines. At GM we are purpose building our EVs so we have something called the Ultium platform. And within that there's this flexibility of design with the way that the battery packs work and can be stacked either horizontally or vertically. The way that the vehicle can be built so that it's a purpose built ev, which means that we're going to have the design that's optimized for ev. It's not an ICE vehicle that looks like an ev, it's a purpose built ev. We're going to have the performance that's based on the aerodynamics that that is and if you know as you're engineering something to be purpose built. So the more that people experience these vehicles and understand what our approach is. I think it's just going to become apparent why our EV strategy is so strong.

Yeah. And I think over time consumers are just going to expect it. Like my last vehicle that I just bought, I knew that this was probably going to be the last gas powered vehicle I bought. And I think a lot of consumers now are thinking that when they're signing a three or four year lease, is this is it. If I don't have an electronic vehicle yet, electric vehicle, I will end up getting one next. So I think we're seeing that tipping point happen. Obviously we've seen lots of legislation that is giving tax benefits and all sorts of other incentives to people switch over. So I think now's the time and it's going to be a time we look back on in history where it really changes humanity. I think it's going to be your role is a big one because you could save the planet. Melissa, that's the lot on your shoulders.

I'm here for it, I'm ready for it. No, it's. I think, like I said, I started my career in automotive and I think if we weren't here to play our part in saving the world, then I probably wouldn't be here. But to be part of that is very meaningful to me and I really do believe that right now this is what the world needs and we're here for it 100%.

So we talked about the Cadillac brand story, we talked about the product story and the vision moving forward. How have you found in this new world that you've been able to effectively communicate all that to the consumer? The auto industry is famous for relying on traditional linear television and I know that Cadillac still plays in that game. But as a cmo, are you thinking about. I imagine you're thinking about sort of an omnichannel strategy to get the message out. What are some of the things that you're looking at right now heading into next year?

Yeah, I think that is something that I spend a lot of time thinking about. Yes, of course we're still on TV and it's still the easiest ways and one of the more efficient, effective ways to reach a lot of people. But that that changes every day. Right. Like every year when we go into the upfronts, you're seeing ratings are down. So I think it still plays an important part. But what I think so much about is how are people consuming media right now and how do they want to engage with us? And I used this example before and it's almost a little flip, but it's also, I think, so accurate. People don't actually hate commercials or hate advertising. And the example of that is the super bowl, because everyone tunes in to watch the commercials in that moment.

But those commercials are good. I think that's probably the difference. Right.

So why are we making commercials that people don't want to watch? Right. And how do we blend those things? And also what goes beyond the commercial? So, you know, who are the people that people are watching on TikTok or on YouTube and how do we make sure that we're there? What does that look like? You know, one of the things I think we. We always say know where the audience is and then show up differently.

Going back to complex. So, you know, you, over time, obviously you shifted from print to digital, and over time you'd built, you would end up building more of a platform. You got into events, you got into video. So what was the thought process behind that and what were the challenges in executing that transition?

What's interesting is instead of talking about the individual strategy of launching each one of those things, let's really think about why, more so than how. And my viewpoint was always not to go back to my point before of never allowing ourselves to be defined by print. Well, it's not just print. It's never allowing yourself to be defined. If you're a brand, play. And I am all about the depth of connection and the amount of input, impact and influence I have on an unfair basis with my audience versus everybody else. Which, by the way, is the definition of brand, if you really think about it. Brand and that level of influence. So it's a combination of reach and influence, right? Impact and influence. And I was like, okay, if we're going to own this audience, then the portability of that audience will be the definition of the strength that we have. If you can't take a conversation on TikTok and bring it back to one of your other platforms, then honestly, your brand doesn't mean anything to anybody. It's just that piece of content that did well on one of the platforms. But what we always concentrated on is that depth of connection and then combining that with the fact that we never got romantic about formats or distribution platforms. So the one thing we never changed is our tone. And the categories we covered have been the same for 20 years, right? The style, sneakers, art, design, hip hop, like, all those things were things that we brought from niche to the mainstream, so we never changed those. But what we never got romantic about was format. We went from print to text to video to long Short form video to long form, to events to in real life, to a Metaverse. We launched Complex Land during the. We did the first kind of Metaverse brand play in December of 2020. And my viewpoint is the reason we're able to not only get people to do that, and when I say that, I mean that internal people to get motivated to do that because we've been consistent about the way we've operated and then have sponsors and brands come along for the ride as well. Because we've been. Our batting average and success of going into different formats and different distribution channels has been off the charts in comparison to other people's batting averages. And when you look at that, it's because we don't get romantic and we're about being. Bringing a different take to our audience. And the other thing that's a little different than us, for us is our audience and the brand and our partners expect Complex to be first with everything. They expect that from us. Okay, they're going to come into this category and they're going to do it very complex like and very different. And they're going to make a splash and because that's our track record and we've done it irrespective of format or distribution channel. So it's more of the thought process and then it's how do you bring something very unique on the brand side on a differentiation basis rather than check a box the way most people, when they, when they go and do brand extensions, people are like, oh, let me slap my brand on this and then wonder why my festival doesn't sell any tickets. Look, no shots. But a lot of people have done that and a lot of people have tried. And it's two things. It's lack of differentiation of your brand and the respect that you have for your audience. And two is, it's really, it's a real life reflection of the fact that you really don't have as many hardcore fans as you think you do. I want to give you the props that you deserve. We were talking about this beforehand, but for everybody and anybody who looks at this, what I like about what you're doing is there's a lot of redundancy and there's not a lot of differentiation in the podcast world today. I give you massive props, not just for the depth and the originality of the conversation, but the kind of aperture that you've opened up for who you're bringing on. And I hope the audience really understands how important that is. It's never been more important to have a different perspective than today. Do not compound like the same view, the same idea, the same level of execution. That's a great way to not to lower your batting average and likelihood for success. Look to the contrarians, look to the people who go really deep. And I think you're, you're doing a great service, not just for ad week, but for the consumers as well. So I just wanted to say thank you for that.

Thank you so much. I think it's a great place to end it having somebody like Rich endorse me. I should just drop the mic right now. It's been such an amazing year to have all of you listen to this podcast every week. This is something that we just kicked off in 2022 and I couldn't be more proud. Proud of the output. Special thanks to our partners at Adweek and the whole team at Suzy for helping us create this. Just want to wish everybody a very happy holiday season and can't wait to be back in 2023 with a bigger, better, more robust podcast for all of you. So until then, take care. See you next time everyone. The Speed of Culture has brought to you by Suzy as part of the Adweek Podcast Network and a guest Creator Network, you can listen subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting Adweek.com podcast to find out more about Suzy, head to Suzy.com and make sure to search for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google Podcasts or anywhere else podcasts are found, click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Suzy, thanks for listening.

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