Ep44: How Pablo Doubled His F2F Business & Transitioned To Full Time Online PT

What's going on, everyone? Matt here from the PT Profit, Leverage and Lifestyle show. I've got one of my amazing clients here, Pablo. He's got, he's got some epic results to share with us to give you guys a bit of insight. He's actually just recently moved all of his clients over to online and he's moved over or back back home in, in Spain after doubling his face to face business in Sydney. So. So Pablo, welcome to the show. How are you, my friend?

Thank you very much, Matt. It's a pleasure for me to, to be invited to the postcards to the podcast and looking forward to having this chat with you. I think it's going to be very interesting and yeah, awesome. I'm feeling very good and ready to go.

Awesome. So it's afternoon for me, very early for you over in, in Spain. So for those who don't know who you are, Pablo, do you want to give us a bit of an insight into, I suppose your, a summary of your journey or even maybe what you were like before you were a pt, like, you know, your previous jobs and that type of stuff.

Yeah. To give a bit of context. So here in Spain I studied two degrees. I study sports science and I study physiotherapy. After my studies I worked as a strength and conditioning coach and physiotherapist for a rugby team and also I was working as a personal trainer. At that time I was working as an employee, so I was working for someone. Here in Spain is more common, the concept of a personal training center instead of being a personal trainer in a commercial gym. But it's more the Australia model. This is what I saw when I, when I went there. Yeah. After that I also started an entrepreneurship with, with a mate. We were renting like a, like a room, like a physiotherapy room in a tennis and puzzle club and we were doing some physiotherapy there. So I was very busy at that time. I have three jobs with the Rapid team as a personal trainer and as a physiotherapist. So busy times. And after that what I feel is like, oh, I need to do something different because in that way I'm going to do always the same and I want to change something. Also I want you to develop my English and I want you to live in a, with a different culture and something different. So that's why we decided to, my partner and I, we decided to, to move to Australia. And in Australia I've been working as a PT in a commercial Gym in the fitness first for a couple of years and then recently I moved back to Spain and I'm just working online. So I'm an online pt. And yeah, that's a bit of a, of a summary of what's my, my journey been.

Awesome. Love it. Yeah, I want to kind of dive into the face to face part first and then I'd love to discuss the transition to online and of course we'll probably talk about some of the challenges as well because not everyone, you know, everyone wants to hear, everyone wants to hear the highlight, but they also want to hear about the challenges as well that you had to overcome during, during that time. So do you want to give us, you want to give us some insight into what business was like before you started working with me? Because you, you're doing, you know, you're doing okay.

Yeah.

Working together. So do you want to give us kind of like that point where you're at then?

So yeah, at the beginning when I started for me was, was very hard because as I said, I had experience as a personal trainer, but as an employee. So when you're an employee, you don't have to care about getting your leads, you don't need to do any sales, you don't need to do marketing. So for me it was something new and it was a big challenge because first I wasn't adapted or I wasn't very aware of that model. So for me at the beginning was like living in a new country and then having that new experience. So it was a, it was a big challenge. And at the beginning for me it was pretty hard to, to find clients. So I wasn't used to do the sales process, for example. So for me it was like once I, I was doing a couple of sessions, like a trial sessions after that to do the sale. It was like, okay, these are my services. If you're interested, fine. Otherwise let me know if you need something. And I changed a lot the way of presenting my, my offer and my services and it was a very tough journey. So at the beginning, the first month I didn't have any client and then from the second month as I started paying the rent of the, of the gym, because the first month it was free, it was like a ramp. So the second month I said to myself, like, I need, I need clients, otherwise I'm going to be paying the rent and I'm not getting any, any profit. So I changed a little bit the way of presenting my sale and then I changed a little bit my mindset in the way of I was more interested on trying to provide a good service to the leads, to the possible clients more than trying to sell something today. And I think that was very important. I think the first month I was a bit of desperate trying to sell something and then once I change the mindset and I focus on okay, let's try to provide a good value and, and the benefit is going to be for them, it's not going to be for me. The money is going to be a consequence, then everything change. And yeah, so from the second month I had a very good progression, but I struggle with retention. For example, that is something like some, some people were training with me for two weeks and then, then they say like, oh, I need to stop by some reason other clients stay with me for, for a longer time. But it was a bit unstable. Also I tried different alternatives or different strategies like a 12 weeks challenge that I know that you've been talking about recently about that and as you said, it's something that doesn't work like under my experience just setting the date in which they're finishing the, the service with you. So and that's, that's terrible for the business because it's not going to be a long term. So in my mind or what I thought is like, okay, maybe is a good way to start and after that, after the 12 weeks they may continue. But it wasn't like that. It's exactly what, what you, what you've been saying in your podcast in your videos is like just setting the date in when they're finishing the, the personal training. So after that it's very difficult to continue with service.

Yeah, I remember having that conversation with you when we first started about, about that because it's 100. Right. And some people that, you know, they'll sell like PT packs. For those who don't know, PT packs is where you buy like 5 PT sessions and then you pay up front for 5 sessions but then you've got to try and resell them again every time they have to buy five sessions. Whereas you would just have people on a recurring weekly payment where it just happens every single week. It's part of their lifestyle. They train every week with you, they get payments coming out every week. It's a lot less friction. And then people get used to having it as part of their lifestyle. And that's why I like challenges do work to generate more people. But you know, as we've experienced it does set like an end date. So they're always in that short term mindset. Do you. I'll kind of put you on the spot here, but do you remember some of the things that I was or not so much straight away, but some of the things that I taught you about forecasting from me talking about forecasting results for people to kick them in the long term.

Mindset 100 and, and that's all the other things that I changed when I started working with you. So first I stopped doing that 12 week challenge and was, was that like forecasting for a year for long term? Like okay, what's, which are your goals? Your courses are, I don't know, reducing 5 or 6 kgs. So let's set that for a, for a long term and after that like setting like short term goals. And in that way people feel motivated to keep training with you. And so they have the big picture of okay, okay, I have to lose 6 kgs or I want to gain 6 kgs of muscle mass. And they have the big picture that's going to be for long term. But then in the short term they know what to do every month or every two months. So that helps a lot first to keep them motivated. That is one of the keys for them to continue training with you. And also they see that they are advancing every single month or every two months. So they feel that they are on track and that helps a lot to, to keep training and, and to reach the goals. That is the most important thing. Of course.

Yep. Love it. And I'm curious to know what was the kind of trying to remember exactly what happened when we first started but what was, what was retention like once we changed from that, you know, that model of you know, 12 week challenges to just a standard recurring. Like I think I'm not sure exactly what your offer is now, but I think at the minimum 12 weeks with a notice period to leave. So you know, keeps people in that mindset to say, hey, look, you know, it's going to be a minimum of 12 weeks but you know, go for as long as you want. If and when you need to stop, you just got to give XYZ notice. Period. So what, what was your retention like after that happened?

So before it was as I said, it was terrible. My retention. So some clients are coming, some clients going. And as I said, it was pretty unstable. So the model that I had is like first they needed to pay every single week manually. So for some of them, for example, they were setting transfer to me, but some of them, they were paying me like, okay, I have to pay you this week transfer or if someone was paying their cash, fine, but it was some. I know. And that's something that we talk about. That's something painful for them because it's like every week is like they have to flick the button to, to send the money and that's pretty painful. And of course, if, if there's any other expense that come to them, the first thing they're going to think is like, okay, for this week I'm not paying personal training because I have other expense to cover. So that's something that when I change to the direct debit to recurrent payment, it changed definitely my, my business because with direct debit, what, what people think about is like, okay, I'm committed with this personal trainer and then I have to figure out how to manage the other expenses if, if another expense is, is coming. So I think that changed a lot my, my business and I felt more, more stable than I before. I didn't have any minimum term of 12 weeks or something. So that's it. Like some people started training with me for a month and then they said like, oh my, I don't know, my rent increased in 100, 100 bucks. So I can pay you anymore. Fine. But now with the minimum term, so first they start experiencing the results after 12 weeks. So that's something basic in that way. They say like, oh, that, that works and I have to continue. And then the recovery payment is a life changer.

Yeah, 100%. And then what you do as well. Right. And just to add on what you were talking about, and I kind of get this set up with all my clients these days is like you want to be like re reforecasting like every four to six weeks. Right. Because then, then they've always got a long term goal that they're working towards. So there's really no reason for people to ever want to leave unless there's an, you know, some crazy thing that happened. So yeah, I forgot about the direct debit stuff. I forgot used to get people to pay like on the spot. It's crazy because like, like subconsciously every time you tap in it, you're like, do I really need this?

Yeah. Correct.

And like if you, if you give them a really hard session and like, is it really worth the. What? You know, whatever it is. So it's a constant reminder of them. You know, logically they're like, oh geez, do I really have to keep paying this much, much money?

Correct. 100.

When something's automated, it's the same with everything that we automate these days. You know, like automated reminders, automated Transfers, you just don't even realize it even happens and just becomes part of. The. Part of the lifestyle. So that's awesome. I do remember as well, Correct me if I'm wrong, but your first consult that you did with the new sales process, you also got someone signed up with three sessions a week, 200 bucks a week.

Correct. So that was three. So when I changed the. The model of my said presentation, so thanks to you, after talking to you and then after you teaching me all that stuff, first consult that I had, it was very curious and it was a big impact for me because I sold it very, very easy. So changing just the structure because the service was pretty similar. I didn't change much of my service compared to what I was doing before. It was more how I presented my service and then how I structure the presentation as well. So, yeah, after doing that sale. Right. But I said, it's like, oh, that. That works. And it works so easy. So I didn't need to give other options. So I started with. With my top option. And the lead at that time, that is she said like, yeah, I want that option. So she didn't give me the chance to give. Give her more options. It was like, yeah, that's the one that I want. And it was a big expense. I mean, it wasn't cheap, let's say. And she was very committed to that option. And it happens the same. It happened the same for the second, for the third. So people knew exactly what they wanted. After presenting my top option because I changed. So my service was pretty similar. What I changed is what I was including. So more. More the value that I was providing. That doesn't mean that I included new services or. Or new things. It was just detailing what my service consists of. Yeah.

So the member had a more. A higher perceived value for what? Even though you didn't really change any or didn't change much about what you included. The way that we packaged it together, the perceived value dramatically increased, which made what you're actually offering in terms of pricing really desirable, which is probably why you had. I don't remember if there was any objections, but I'm pretty sure there was no objections for the first couple of consults. And they were just like, yep, I'll take that one. Thank you very much. Here's my card. Set up a direct debit.

Correct. It was so easy. It was so easy to sell it. And in my mind it was like, oof, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to. To sell this. This pack at this price. But then what I felt is like, the price is not a problem. If I would say that cost $1 million, people will say, yeah, that's the one that I want. So I said, so it changed completely because before that, before working with you, it was a big struggle to say, okay, I have this option, but also I have this one in case that doesn't work for you, I have this other one. So different alternatives, and people usually choose the cheapest one. But in this case it was like, this is the option, the main option that I have. And people say, yeah, that's the one that want. That's, that's the one that I need, actually.

Perfect. Easy as. So you're basically, you know, identifying the problem, providing a solution to the problem, and then, you know, obviously matching up the budget to suit very, very good mate. So obviously got off to a very good start after we started working together. So what was the, what happened after that? So I think a singer said it at the start. I think he managed to double, double the business. So do you want to give us a.

Or what.

What that experience was like when you, when you're, you know, crushing it face to face?

Yeah. So before, before we started working together, I was doing like between 15 to 20 sessions. So it wasn't bad, but it wasn't what I wanted. So I, I needed something else just because I don't like to feel comfortable with that low number. So I said, like, I want to make as many sessions as I can, so I need, I need more people. And then that's what we've been talking about, like how to, how to change that and how to increase the number of sessions that I was doing. So we run different strategies to get more leads. And then with that new sales presentation, it helped a lot to, to get more clients. And then I went from 15 to 20 to 35 to 40 sessions per week. So that was a really big change. And, and also it was what I felt is like, that's so easy. It's something that I can replicate. So if, if I want more clients and I replicate this process, I'm going to continue getting more clients. So that was what made me feel more stable, safer, happier. And also the retention was good as well. So it wasn't like, okay, I'm getting new client this week, I'm getting a new client this week, but then another client is moving away. So it was like, continue building the business. And, and it was a one step after, after all that, and it was great. That was, yeah, how I felt after doing that, it was like, I feel very confident with my, with my personal training, business, and then very stable. It was like before doing 15 to 20 sessions, it wasn't, it wasn't about money, but it was. It's like, I need something else. I want to keep developing my business.

How good? That's awesome. So we're at the stage now where you doubled your face to face business. And then you actually. So you're on like a, a certain visa. I'm not sure which one, but you're on a visa which I think you, from memory, it was, it was going to expire and actually, let's just pause for one second. Sorry, team just had to step out for a second. Okay, we're back. So we're talking about Pablo's visa. So, yeah, I'm not sure exactly what visa you were on, but essentially there was a. There was a time limit that you were, I think, allowed to stay in Australia for. And we were tossing up whether we, I think it was whether you try and extend it for longer or whether you move back to, to Spain. So do you want to talk us through, I suppose, the decision to move back to Spain instead of staying in Sydney?

So my visa at that time, it was a Covid visa. So Covid visa in Australia was after Covid, obviously, and it was a visa that they allow for immigrants to, like, Australia needs some people to work. So they said, like, as we need people, we're going to give this visa. And then the requirements were very basic and very easy. And that's why we picked up that visa, because it was the easiest one for us. So we had that Covid visa for. It was a year until, if I'm not wrong, February 2024. And before that. So they said, like, if you're in a copied visa, you can apply for an extension until the end of January, I think. So we, we had the possibility to apply for the extension that was six months, but then we applied at the end of, at the end of January, but then we didn't receive our answer till May. So we were like, we don't know if we're gonna get the granted or if they gonna reject our visa. So we were in a pretty unstable situation and saying, like, what if they say no and we have to leave the country? So we were preparing everything in case we need to. To leave the country. Fortunately, we. They gave us the extension in May. And actually, I think till now I'm. I'm having visa till the 15th of November, but my partner decided to, to move back to Spain. And she said like, oh, I want to study a master. So she tried to find a master in was pretty expensive compared to Spain because as an immigrant is a bit more expensive than if you're a resident. So she said like, okay, I will study that back in, back in Spain. And that's why we moved recently. One month ago. It feels like we've been in Spain for three months because many things has been running during this time, but it's been just one month. But now we are settled and, and living a new, new adventure and new experience.

Awesome. Happy days. So I remember that time because we were, we were starting to get some systems organized for online in case we had to move back pretty, pretty quickly. But you know, I'm very curious to know about the transition from face to face to online because obviously you had a fair few clients. So talk to me about the transition from face to face to online. What worked, what didn't work possibly because I haven't really heard too much of the challenges because everything seemed to go relatively smoothly to be honest. But yeah, talk to us through the transition because a lot of, a lot of people want to do the transition to online, but they think really, really hard. So yeah, curious to hear your perspective on this one.

Yeah, so in my case, as I was leaving the country, I need to tell my clients like I'm leaving the country in, in a month. So what we can do is as we studied a process of change your body composition, either reducing body fat and increasing muscle mass or just increasing muscle mass. What we can do is continue with this process but online. So what we prepared is like a service that is pretty similar to what I was doing as a face to face personal trainer. The only thing they are missing, let's say, is they don't have me as a spotter for, for the exercises. They don't have the possibility to be chatting with me during the trainings and I'm not loading and unloading the, the barbells or put the weight for them. That's the, the only thing that is different because the rest of the service is exactly the same. So I prepare programs, training programs for them. I prepare nutritional programs and then they have the support every single week and mostly every single day. So most of them, they say like yeah, let's try. So I gave them the possibility to try that for, for a month and they said like, yeah, let's try. I'm very happy with your, with your service and, and I want to continue training with you. As you know me Very well. And what I felt is like, they, they know how to train. So it's like it's going to be just having the committee with yourself to keep going to the gym at the same time even is what, what I told them. Like, you can continue going to the gym same day, same times as we were training together. You, you will have your, your training program, you will have the support. If you have any question, you can ask me at any time. Um, we were doing like some forms every single week. We were doing like some calls. So all this, probably that's the most important thing of the service is all the support that I had that they have is what they feel like is working for them. So with all that support, they know that every single week they're gonna, they're gonna be progressing. So in that way, they don't need me to be there. Probably they gotta be lifting a little bit less heavy than if I would be there. Obviously if they're training by themselves, they didn't have anyone behind them to spot them. But what I said for them is the reference weight that they should be lifting. So in that way they know how heavy they should be lifting to make a, to have an effective set. And, and that's it. That every single week we update that and we have a chat. So they have to fill a form how the, the week has been for them in terms of performance in the trainings, in terms of implementation of their nutritional program. And every week they have to set some goals for that week. Goals, something very basic that can be like going to the gym four times this week or following my nutritional program six days this week. So in that way they, they continue the progression and they get in their, their results. Doesn't matter if I'm. If I'm there or not. They are having probably, probably the same results as if I would be there working face to face with them.

Yeah, 100% love it. I completely agree because obviously I've made a transition for all of my clients as well, and a lot of them are actually finding it's not so much, not so much better, but they're enjoying having, you know, everything at the tip of their fingers that they can message for extra support pretty much any time. But it sounds like it was a relatively smooth transition and all your clients are pretty open to the suggestion. One of the things that I think works really well is because one thing that I got you to do with your clients is actually set them up on the app and stuff while you were in Australia and do it with them a few times to make sure they understood everything and how it worked to make it an easy, easy transition. So do you feel like that played a part in making it a relatively smooth transition?

100. So that was one of the most important things and that was one of your advice, like, start setting the app with them. So send them there. So just to. To give some context, what I'm using is an app with my clients that is Train Rise. So what I did is sending them the invitation to the app. So they registered themselves. And while we were training face to face, the last week or the last two weeks, we were following the program instead of in a Google Drive. That, that, that was what I was doing before in. In. In the app in trainerize. So they started getting used to use the app to follow the program. So while I was training them, I told them, okay, let me check the next exercise. So next exercise we have this superset. So I was explaining them the superset, but they needed to record the weights that they were lifting after the set. So that was a bit of a training on how to use the app and how to follow the program while training by themselves. So I think that helps a lot. Also the checking forms. We did a coaching call before I left as well. That is something that is included in my service. Every two weeks we do a coaching call in which I talk about a topic and they make some questions after that related to the topic I talked about or related all the other stuff they. They need to. To solve. So, yeah, 100. I think that helped a lot to feel them safe following that. Because I think if I could start it after leaving, probably most of them will say, like, that's something new. Probably. I don't want to continue with the, with the service. Thank you for everything. But having everything settled, it was much easier for them. And it was like, okay, what we started one, two weeks before I left. Let's continue.

Yeah. 100. 100. Agreed. I made. I made one of the mistakes with one of my clients saying that. And I haven't really told anyone this, really. But basically I did the same thing as what we did with you. And I said, yep, I'm gonna get you all set up and I'll get you to use the app during our sessions. And this particular client was, I trained the husband and wife and I got the wife set up. She was ready to go. Happy days. And the husband was. Was sick for like two, two out of the last three sessions. Uh, and then I was like, oh, I sent him the invite and I was like, hey, I need you to set up the app so I can show you how to use it. He's like, oh, I forgot my phone. Can I, can I do it next session? And he's. And I was like, oh, all right, fine. And initially the next two sessions he was sick. And then guess what happens after I leave the gym. I'm like, hey mate, I need to organize a zoom or a catch up to set up the app. And he was like, ah, too much hassle, don't worry about it. And now it didn't do it. It was my fault. So I needed to get it another lesson.

Never failure.

Lesson learned. We can't, we can't all be as good as Pablo.

In my case, I don't know, I was, I was not pretty lucky because that's, that's not luck of course. But I think thanks to your advice and the good retention that I built thanks to that, I think that was pretty easy to, to continue working with them but online so also a bit, I built a very good relationship with them and I have and they, they so nice and we, we still having like some calls pretty often if they need anything they can, they can call me. So they make clients but also they're kind of friends and I feel that that close relationship also helped a lot to, to continue with the, with the service and also that they were pretty happy with, with the personal trainer or the personal training before moving. So for them I think it was, it was easy to, to continue and I think that was, that was the key so building a good relationship and, and also providing a good service. I think that that helped a lot to, to continue working with them online.

Awesome. Love it. So, so we covered a fair bit today. So we covered how you went from struggling as a face to face trainer to doubling the business and then making a successful move to online plus moving back to Spain. What are the, what are the plans next? Do you plan on keep growing online? Are you going to do face to face in Spain? What are you, what are you thinking?

So what I feel is now I'm at my 1% of the, of my online PT career so and I'm pretty happy with the results that I'm getting right now. So it's like even though I'm in the 1%, I have like a like so many things left to do to keep progressing my online business. So I'm going to try different methods, I'm going to try different strategies to build it as much as I can. So I'm enjoying this time I have more time or what I can do is like organize better my time because I don't need to meet someone at these days at this time, specifically what it was happening back in Sydney. So now I feel that I have more flexible time and that helps me a lot to develop other, other stuff. So for example, now I'm focused on social media. That is something kind of painful for me because I wasn't used to post anything, not even about personal trainer, nothing about my life. So if you see my, my posts or my stories, before it was just reposting my partner's stories every time we were going out or every time we were doing something different. Now he's building or trying to provide some, some value. So it's becoming more visible and for, for people to say like, oh, this is Pablo. Now he's focused on helping people online to increase Master Mars. That is my, my main niche, let's say. So now I'm building. So some, some posts, I'm trying to provide some value. It takes me a bit of time because sometimes it's repeating and repeating and it's like I'm not happy with the result and it's changing and modify things and it takes a, it takes a long time but I think it's going to become more automatic the more I practice it. And so that's one of the, of the ways I want to keep developing my online business. And other ways is like same learning, different strategies from, from you. That is what I told you. Like I feel like you are 10 steps forward than me. So just following the things that you've been doing during all this time with your, with your clients and, and I think I'm gonna keep getting results. And now I have like 15 clients and I'm at my 1%. So imagine what I can reach if I continue with the process.

100. It's only just the beginning mates. And you know, as you said, like I'm, I'm consistently learning new things as well. So I'm testing all these things in my business and then whatever works, I'll pass on to everyone else and whatever doesn't work, I'll keep it to myself.

And that's what I, what I like the most. Like you're always bringing new ideas and for example, in our meetings what you say is like, oh yeah, I'm working with these virtual assistant. And it's like what's a virtual assistant? Or yeah, this process of automatization with AI and it's like what's that? So I feel like I have so many things to. To do and that I'm not doing right now. So it's like I have a long, long journey to. To to do.

Yes. 100%. The. The world is moving very fast, so.

Correct.

We need to keep up with the trends are going on in the industry. But more than likely some people probably want to follow the journey as well. So if people want to check out your socials with your new and improved content, where would, where would they have to go to see the content? What's your handles?

Yeah, so my Instagram is the Sanchez method or they can find me by my name, Pablo Sanchez. And basically I posted I think three posts right now. But I'm gonna continue building that so you can follow me and you can, and you can see my evolution because probably my first video is gonna be horrible compared to the hundred video that I post. So in that way you can, you can see everything that I'm. All the changes that I that I'm gonna be implementing to improve the quality of my videos and and to keep providing value to my viewers.

Awesome. How good. All right, champion, thank you so much for to jumping on today provided heaps of value and a really good insight on how people can not only grow their face to face business, but how to actually transition online as well. So thank you so much.

Thank you for the invitation. I enjoyed a lot. Awesome.

Thank you.