Ep55: Perform Under Pressure: Gary’s Cape Protocol for Entrepreneurs

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Welcome to the show. Welcome to the PT Profit, Leverage and Lifestyle Show. I've got an absolute superstar guest with me today, all the way from Seattle in the States. So welcome Gary. How are you today?

I'm doing great.

Awesome. Thanks so much for jumping on. We're just talking off, off the recording before about our different experiences in, in business. Business and stuff. But for those who don't know who you are, can you give us a little bit of a summary of what you've done in the past and what you do now?

So I'm a mental performance coach. I work with professional and college athletes unlocking their potential. And some of the athletes that I work with are, and business owners by the way, they are in need of mental performance help. And so they, they feel like they're not operating at their very best. And then there's those high performers who are right need to be, but they're always looking for that competitive edge. And so I remember Pete Carroll, one of the professional and college coach here that coaches American football, he always said, Gary, the best always want to get better. And so they're always looking for a competitive edge. So I think that's a lot of what your audience is like. There's certainly we all have struggles as business owners, but there's this whole other element that you're already good at what you do or else you wouldn't be in the room. So, so if you want to take your game to the next level, you're looking for that extra 1 or 2% gain that you can have a competitive advantage over, you know, an opponent, then you're always looking to get better and sharpen that tool. So a lot that's what I bring. I, I work with people who feel like they need help and then there's the other people who are just, they're doing great, they're doing fantastic and wonder what their next level is.

Yeah, 100%. You mentioned a pretty good point there. And as, as you said, a lot of personal trainers, they're also athletes as well. So they've got, they're in the high performance field, both in business obviously, but also a lot of them are pretty high level athletes. At the same time, do you see like any, just to start with, do you see any trends between high level athletes versus quite successful business owners? Like any traits or characteristics that are pretty common between both?

Well, it's a fascinating question because I think most business owners don't think that there's a lot of correlation in, in mental performance with them compared to professional athletes. When in reality it's the exact opposite. I would say 80 to 90% of what it takes to be an elite athlete is the very same of what it takes to be a great business person. So there's so much similarity, for example, emotional regulation in running your business. How important is that? How important is selft talk, you know, as a business owner? Like there's, there's so many like resilience, like there's so many different traits that, that are com. Comparable for both, you know, that, that it's just kind of comical that like a lot of times when I open up a workshop or a seminar, I'll put, I'll ask the entire audience that's. That are full of business owners, by the way, I'll just say, you know, what does it take to be a biz, an elite business owner, you know, or what does it take to be an elite athlete? And they just find that, that the vast majority of those words are the same for both. It takes hard work, dedication, practice, emotional resilience, emotional regulation. I mean it's just so the commonalities are there.

Yeah, hundred percent. I want to dive into a bit more of the emotional regulation because I'm probably more curious on that for me as well, because it's probably something that I'm probably not the best at, to be honest. So just to be super basic right now, what is emotional regulation and what can people do to help regulate that?

Yeah, so there's something called the Yerx Dodson scale. And the Yerkes Dodson scale is a graph of where our peak performance might be on sort of an x, y axis. So if you're talking about the vertical axis, that is the level of your performance. So the higher the number, the better your performance. And along the horizontal axis is a scale of 0 to 10. And when the lower number would represent your under activation, the higher number would represent your higher activation. So you're angry, you're upset, you're kind of losing control. And so what Yerke's Dodson in the 1930s and 40s decided or discovered was that the peak performance was between 4 and 6. And so if a team is under activated or an individual is under activated, then they would just be sort of bored or not interested or not totally emotionally engaged. If you're overly emotionally engaged, you're activating hormones like cortisol, that's a neural inhibitor. And then so you don't think as well. You only have two options, fight or flight. So we want to control the amount of cortisol being released into the body by not over activating. But if we're under activated, we need to be able to say, come on, let's get, let's go. Like, like how do we figure out how we're going to be better and get more emotionally activated? So when it comes to this, like how, what, how do we move up and down the scale at will if possible? Number one is awareness. You have to be aware of where you are on the activation scale. So sometimes if I have a heated argument with my wife, I'm just like, man, I am over activated. Like anything that comes out of my mouth is not going to be intelligent because I'm over activated. And so either I've got a, you know, I'll give myself tools, which is the second aspect. So number one is awareness. Number two is, is what tools can I activate, right. Or grab out of my tool bag to use in this situation to either calm myself down or to increase my level of emotional engagement? And then number three is how do I apply that in the midst of this conversation? What tools can I give myself to sort of have? Is there a go to phrase or go to word that I can use? Or can I come up with some tools for me to be able to deactivate myself a little bit? So can I go for a walk? Is there something that I can say to myself? I mean, if I'm, if I'm under activated, is there some music that I can listen to? How can I get my heart rate up so that I can engage? So yeah, the emotional activation for an athlete and a business leader is very similar.

It brings, brings me to really interesting realization because even last night me and my wife were having a bit of an argument and I was like, I was just reflecting on it. I was like, yeah, I didn't really say anything intelligent at all.

Yeah, it's super fascinating because my wife is the kind of person who will disengage quickly. And so it's like, well, how do I keep her engaged? Because she want, she trends toward being under activated. And so I'm like, well, how do I bring the best out of her? And so I'll try and do that through being curious and asking certain questions. And sometimes she just won't have it right. Like she just likes to, you know, disengage. But, but it's really a challenge. If I want to keep my head above the clouds and I want to be at my best even under duress, then, then I need to sort of emotionally regulate myself so that I can give myself at least an opportunity to say something intelligent. Right?

Yeah. 100% agree. You mentioned obviously a couple of tools that, to, to regulate on the scale there, what are some of the things that people could do to regulate your emotions? I think you said a couple there. Like going for a walk or listening to a certain amount of music. Do you just have to like try different things to see what works and then just obviously adjust over time?

Yeah, you do. Like for, it's different for everyone. Like for, for example, if somebody's actor under activated and they want to, you know, you want to. Let's say that there's an athlete who is going into some type of competition and they're under activated, but they can put on headphones and listen to a type of music that sort of gets them going and activates. So I call, I call the door of activation. There's some type of door that they can walk through mentally that as soon as that they walk through that door it is like on, like just there's something in us. There's a memory or a thought thought that we can access or walk through that. You know, and the, the door has a name on it like for, for. I mean it doesn't have to be a human name. It could be just like, it could be like I'm, I'm a, I'm a badass. Like I'm, I, this is who I am. Badass. Or you know, there's a, a player here in Seattle that we've worked with and he, and he was just the nicest guy in the world. And as soon as he put on his pads and his uniform, he was a very, he would say, I go to a dark place. And because he's a. Football is a very violent American football is a violent sport. And so he would activate and he would, when he put on that helmet or put on those pads, he didn't want to talk to anybody. He was a loner. It was dark in his corner. He just wanted to be by himself. So, so for him, you know, listening to music and making things simple was just really important to him. So yeah, sometimes it's going for a walk, sometimes it's listening to music. Sometimes whatever activates, sometimes just getting your heart rate going can actually activate you. So doing some push ups or some sit ups or doing something that engages cardiovascularly can be really helpful. And then if you're over activated, sometimes it's going to your coach and just having a conversation or it's making a phone call or sometimes it can be listening to calmer music because there's so much performance anxiety that athletes have, but it's not that different for people in business. When you have to make a presentation or your making a pitch to somebody, you can be under activated and over activated as well. So the first key is just sort of be aware you are on that scale. And then number two, yeah, just kind of experiment with different things to activate yourself or different thoughts. Like, I'm doing this for whom. Like Simon Sinek said, start with why. But I believe there's a second part to that question was, but it ends with who? And so who do you want to do this for? Do you want to do it for your spouse, for your kids, for your mom, your dad, a grandparent, a loved one? So, you know, if you can attach a who to what, whatever it is that you're doing, then you might have more success.

Yeah, great answer. Some very practical things there, which is, which is awesome. One thing that kind of resonates with me and most likely a lot of the personal trainers that listen to this as well, is when we're meeting a potential client, we're sitting down with them, like in person in the gym. And a lot of the time from, from when I was doing this type of stuff, sometimes you are a little bit flat. So just as you said, just having that awareness to be like, okay, cool, how can I kind of get in the zone here? Whether it's just, you know, smashing out a few push ups to raise the heart rate, as you said, or obviously listening to music or, you know, whatever it is, I think that's going to help a lot of people because that's when you need to be at your high performance. Right. When you're pitching, pitching potential clients. Yeah.

Well, when you think about like how communication is done. Right. So there's three aspects to communication. There's the content, there's the body language and there's the tone. And out of those three things, content is the third out of the three. The second one is tone and the first one is body language. And so when we're communicating with people, even if you and I are doing like you as a business person, we're on zoom calls all the time. And so your tone and your body language is so important to communicate so much. And so just to give yourself, or at least put yourself in a position to be able to communicate all sorts of positive things to your potential client is really valuable.

Yeah, 100%. Let's, let's talk a little bit about performing under pressure, both as businesses and athletes, of course, both very Similar. Do you have any? Well, I suppose. What are your thoughts on performance under pressure? And I suppose. Do you have any guidance or tips to perform better under pressure?

Yeah, I'd be happy to give you my secret sauce. I have two things. Number one is that to me, most people who feel a lot of pressure overthink things, and it's one of the very common things that I hear in athletes is that I think too much. So if that's the case, then calories and thoughts are very similar. So if you take in too many thoughts, you feel lethargic and slow. It's the same thing with calories. If you can't expend the thoughts that you're taking in and then they're weighing you down, right. And you get slow and lethargic, even if you're taking in really good content or good information. If you take. If you eat 10 or 15 apples in a day, even though that. That might be somewhat healthy for you, but too much of a good thing can actually be detrimental to you. And so to be aware or mindful of the amount of information that we are taking in is really important. So how do you do that? Well, one of the ways that I do that with my clients is I distract them, and I try to distract them with a protocol. So if they go through the protocol, they're not thinking about certain things. Like, for example, let's say an American baseball player and might be a sport in Australia, cricket or whatever. You know, you're. We. What we want to do is control the time between the action. So we want to have them run through a protocol. And so I created something called cape. C, A, P, E, like a superman cape. And cape stands for control. So control yourself, right? Take a deep breath. Maybe there's. You like to scratch your armpit or, you know, wipe your head. I don't know what it is, but you want to just figure out a way to take that deep breath, the universal sign to relax. Okay, so that's the C. So control yourself. A is assess the situation. Your brain is absolutely remarkable at assessing things. It takes in so much information, it's hard to comprehend. If you turned around in your room right now and you. And. And. And for one second, and I said, you know, Matt, what do you see? You would tell me 35 things like, that's how brilliant your brain is. So. So the second one is assess the situation. So you'll spend two or three seconds doing that. And then the P stands for make a plan or plan. And that's what am I going to do if the, you know, the ball comes to me or what am I going to do in this situation? What am I going to do in that? So you're kind of running through the scenarios to give yourself a plan. And then the E stands for execute. So you want to trust your training, trust your plan and trust your instincts. Okay. That is the execution. Trust your training, trust your plan and trust your instincts. So in American baseball, if there's 13 to 17 seconds between pitches and I have a client that's overthinking things, I'm going to be like, listen, I just want you to cape every single time. Well, I thought that was pretty cool. And one of the ways that you and I can stress test what we talk about is does it apply in different environments? And so I was working with some law enforcement, police officers in California and I did some work with the FBI and I taught them how to cape, how to perform under pressure, control yourself, assess the situation, make your plan and trust your training, trust your plan and trust your instincts. So if we can distract our clients with that, then I think we do really well. And when we make presentations in business or we're potentially talking to a client who might sign on with us, it's the same thing, right? Control ourselves, take that deep breath, assess the situation, make your plan or. Yeah, make your plan and figure out how to execute at a high level. So yeah, that's a couple, couple tools in my tool bag.

That's so good. And like I, for me personally, I played very high level for cricket here, here in Australia. So it's very, very, very much the same thing. Like you need, you have a very specific thing that you go through, whether it's in your mind or you're actually doing something. Before, like you mentioned baseball, it's the same thing with cricket. When we're kind of facing up to hit the ball. It's a very specific routine that we.

Very good. And what are you not thinking by, by thinking in, through this protocol? What are all the things that you're not thinking?

Yeah, all the, all the distractions are gone. It's all gone. So very good. I like it. Yeah. And it's the same thing in business, obviously. I personally don't do too much in terms of practicing that same stuff, which is my bad. But like, I'm having a conversation with you so I can fix that. But yeah, I think like realistically for, for people in, in business it's, you can learn a lot from how athletes perform because we're all kind of Striving to be better. Right. As business owners, do you see any. Any, like, we kind of talked about the traits a little bit before, but is it. Is there any, like, specific traits that, that you must have as a, as a business owner to succeed in, like the trends that you're kind of seeing, the people you're working with?

Yeah, I do. You know, most of the really successful people that I know in business have multiple business failures. It's not just one or two. And it's the end of the world in the moment. It certainly feels like it's the end of the world or if you lose a big contract. Like, I lost a $30,000 contract in late December, and it was gonn, you know, put me in the black and I was going to feel really great about the budget and making money would have. Would have allowed me to do all sorts of things. And then the last second I. I lost it. They. The person that I was working with had a hat, a superior that, that I had already hired up the physician, and this person didn't know about it. So they're like, they were like, calling me and say, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I thought this was a slam dunk. And I was like, yeah, I told my wife it was a slam dunk. And now I have to go back and tell her. Right. So the, the. I think the reframing of failure is crucial for people in business. Like, how many times do we get our hopes up high over something, over a contract, over a potential job? You know, just constantly we get, you know, our hopes are built on these contracts and these new clients. And, and being in business is about. Is about serving our current clients really well. But you also have to prospect. Your reward is to work harder. That's your reward in business. Right? And so I think, I think learning how to reframe failure. I know a lot of people know who Alex Hormozi is. I heard him say recently, who owns, you know, acquisition.com and owns multiple businesses. He'll say, you know, people don't realize I failed at seven businesses. I had four partnerships that just totally went bad and awful. Like, he has all the. He goes, but all it took is one win. All it took is one for me to be successful. And I think I love that attitude. It's kind of like, you know, in sports, you could fail a lot, you know, but you just. If you do that one thing really well, especially in business, and, and it takes off, then you're. You're sort of home. Home Free. But you do really need to think through how you're going to handle failure. And if you can simply learn to reframe, tell yourself a different story about what just happened in a way that benefits you, then I think it can be tremendously important. And we're kind of like circling back to self talk. Like, what's the story you're telling yourself about what's going on in your life and about yourself, and I call it your inner advertising campaign. Like, what are you selling yourself? Right? Like, what are you constantly talking? Because you're going to talk to yourself more than absolutely anybody on the planet talks to you. So if you're gonna, if you're gonna have that and own that voice, then why not program it to be your. So I know in business, at least for me, I can never control an outcome. I can never control it. You can throw the best pitch in baseball, make the best play in cricket. You can, you can do everything right and still lose.

Right?

You can still lose. It can still get hit for a home run. And so I don't really think that it's about, you know, the outcome. What I really think it's about is putting yourself in the best position to win. And sometimes you have to put yourself in a risky situation to win, but that's what's required. And so it's really not so much about the outcome, it's really about putting yourself in the best position to win. And a lot of that is done by self talk and reframing failure. Because in business you are going to fail. You know, you might be the one in a thousand or one in a million, but for most of us, yeah, it's pretty tough.

Yeah, 100% even. Even with me as well. This is, I think my fourth business one was. Did pretty well, but two of them were a complete failure. And I don't talk about it too much, but yeah, everyone's got their own little stories that have happened to them in the past. How do you deal with failure? I know you kind of said you've got to obviously frame it in a way to say like, you know, what's the win in this scenario? Is that essentially what the best scenario is there? Or is there a different framework that you kind of use?

There's two different frameworks. So one of them is emotional and one of them is in terms of vision. So the emotional piece is, is I need to schedule time to feel. So I don't choose to feel things perpetually, like, perpetually, like just all throughout the day because I'll I'll get depressed, I'll get really frustrated and it won't go well for me in that day. But if I can schedule my emotions, then I will give myself permission during that 30 minutes or 60 minutes or 2 hours or half a day or a day or whatever it is, if I can schedule my emotions. Because the goal of, of learning from our mistakes is, is to do exactly that, is to learn from them. When you're in a sound mind, like in a good frame of mind. So oftentimes a lot of athletes and business owners will, they'll like reflect and ruminate on the worst at the worst time, like after a loss or after something went wrong. And they are asking themselves, that's not the best time to learn from your mistakes because you're hurting, right? Emotionally hurting. So if you can learn to schedule your emotions in such a way that it benefits you and you get the most out of it, I think is, is the best thing that you can do. So tomorrow at 9am if I want to feel horrible, go ahead, feel horrible at 9am for an hour. If you want to take a little bit longer, go ahead. But learn to schedule your emotions. That's number one. And then number two is more vision driven. So for example, the best way to get over a loss or some type of really difficult situation is to look through the windshield. So think of it like driving a car. If you're constantly looking through your rear view mirror at what happened. It's very difficult to drive forward if you're constantly looking at, you know, your competitors and what they're doing or whatever. Your eyes are not fixed on the windshield. So should you glance at your side view mirrors? Of course you should. Should you glance at your rear view mirror? Of course you should. But your gaze needs to be through the windshield. And I think the quickest way to get over a loss or a failure is to look through the windshield.

That's such a good analogy. I was like, yes, it makes complete sense when you say like that. Yeah, because like, for, for context, a lot of personal trainers that they, they try to do personal training and then it is, they stop and they just completely give up on their passion. Whereas like recently I had, I, I had a pretty good milestone for us in business. But you know, I was, I was saying a post yesterday about all the stuff that went wrong for me to actually achieve the goal now. But if I had given up when that thing happened, this would have never happened and you know, I would have been in a completely different position exactly the way that I've been thinking of it. It's like, cool, cool. And I reflect on this all the time. Well, not all the time, but like, yes, in that moment, it was like almost the worst thing that had happened to me in my entire life. But then when I look back now, like, that was actually one of the best things that happened to me because it allowed me to pivot in a different direction, which has given me the, the life and lifestyle that I have now. So when you, when you say, like, schedule your emotions, is it literally like, Is it like a mental schedule? Like, okay, cool, tomorrow morning I'm gonna, you know, sit down and reflect on, you know, whatever. Or is it like, okay, cool. Is it like a religious thing where you like, okay, I'm gonna put it in my calendar for an hour so I make sure I get it done. Is that kind of what you mean? Or is it just like a mental thing? Okay, cool, Tomorrow morning I'm gonna go and take some time out and, you know, do whatever.

Yeah, I think it's actually scheduling it.

Yeah.

So I think one of the things that we do too often is we ruminate. Ruminate is actually an agricultural term for cows chewing their cud so they'll bring something back up from their stomach and then begin chewing on it again. That's what ruminate means. And so we ruminate too often on things. Right. And so I think part of the I benefit of scheduling your emotions is that you get to get outside of your emotions for a bit. Because if you stay in the emotion, especially if it's a bigger loss or heartache, then you kind of get stuck in there. But if you say to yourself, I'm going to create this dense time when I can feel this, and then I think it's. It's really helpful for me. You know, I'm up at 3:45 every morning, so a great time for me to feel things is probably. Well, I'm. I have a pretty solid regimen, but if I say at, hey, at 8:00am I'm gonna feel a loss of something, you know, then, you know, and sometimes the bigger the loss, the little bit more time that you'll take. But I've done it the other way around too. I've been like, I felt bad for 10 minutes and then I'm like, I gotta look through the windshield. I got too many things to worry about than grieving over something. And the grieving process when it comes to loss in business or in sports, but primarily in business, is you just have to have a short memory, just like, if you want to be good in sports, you kind of have to have a short memory in business. Like, do your thing, feel it, get your feedback, create a feedback loop, get some feedback from people and, you know, put it down on paper and do the, you know, do a little bit of an autopsy about. About it. And then as quickly as you possibly can, look forward to your next play, because that's what it takes for you to be good in any sport, and that's what it takes for you to be good in businesses. What's next play? Even though this didn't work and it hurts, what's my next play?

Yep, Completely, completely agree. So many, so many times people would just sit on something that didn't go to plan for, you know, days, weeks, months, and then all of a sudden, you've missed all these other opportunities that have happened right in front of your eyes because you still haven't accepted, you know, what's happened as the reality.

That's interesting because we're not talking about. About sweeping your feelings under the rug. We're not talking about ignoring them. We're not talking about any of those things. We're actually talking about scheduling them, or I call it postponing your emotions. So can I postpone my emotions? Like, for example, you know, because we're talking about our spouses. If they only knew, right? If we were talking about our spouses, could I postpone my anger so that I can be at my very best for her in this moment? And then tomorrow, if I want to feel. And you'll just find, like, half the time, you don't even feel like being angry tomorrow because you talk something through. So sometimes postponing, sometimes scheduling, but it. But it is a concrete thing.

Yeah, completely agree. What's. What's the plan for you moving forward for your business? Are you working more with businesses these days or more athletes?

Well, it certainly has been trending toward businesses, and I just never thought in a million years that it would do that. But I'm finding more and more businesses that want the mental performance training because it affects them and affects their business. So I have clients that say, hey, I'm going into a big meeting. What do I need to, you know, what do I. And I. I'll be like, hey, what did I teach you? I don't have anything else on top of what I taught you, but if you put the protocol into practice, you will succeed. I can promise that. And, and that you will be at your best. There's no more information because everybody wants to think that it's if I just get more information, if I can just get that, you know, that nugget of wisdom. No. Put into practice what you already know to be true and you will do really well. It's just that because you learned something, you think that you've experienced it. I call it Oprah Winfreyism. It's like if you talk about it enough, you think you do it right, but that's not the case. It's. You really do need to put it into practice on a regular basis because it'll serve you well. So, yeah, it is very fascinating.

Yeah, that's an awesome analogy. Awesome. And this has been great, by the way. This has been really insightful. A lot of good action items for a lot of people, which is awesome. If people want to find out more information around your services or follow you on social media, where's the best place to reach you or reach out to you?

Well, thank you. That's a very kind question. So I'm on mostly on Instagram and LinkedIn, but primarily Instagram. So if you type in elite mindset and I'm the guy with the blue dot, I think there's some other elite mindsets out there, but mine's the verified account and they can find me on there and they can always shoot me messages from there.

Happy days. Thank you so much for the conversation. Is there anything else that we missed that we should go through around mindset?

Well, I don't think so, other than I think it would be interesting to ask each other what's the one area of mindset that you and I struggle with when it comes to sports or business? So even though we're really dialed into what we do, it doesn't mean that we're not human. Right.

Yeah. Completely agree. I can tell you we briefly touched on it before and there's a couple of things, but the main one, I think, for me is having a specific protocol or routine to get me in the right mindset for talking to prospects. I don't have any type of routine for that at the moment. So I'm all. I'm not aware of where I'm at on the scale. I'm like, somewhat aware, but I don't have any tools or I haven't identified any tools that is going to help me, you know, get myself pumping, ready for the pitch, I suppose, like I do okay there, but I don't have anything set in stone. And then the scheduling, the emotions is also a big thing for me. Kind of let it all out. Yeah. In the moment. Very counterproductive.

Yeah, I think it's great. There's a great book by Chris Voss. Voss. Chris Voss is the FBI hostage negotiator. And, and he had a tactic when he works, when he worked with the FBI, he had a tactic for negotiating with, you know, criminals. And, and so one of the things that he would say is, and I, I kind of, I kind of used it in a, in a, I was talking to a coach at Stanford University here in America. And, and so he gave this tactic and I thought, well, I'm going to give it a shot. Let's see if it works. This person's not a criminal. They're just a coach of a sports team. But, but I was, they were considering hiring me for, for some work. And so I said, hey coach, I said, you have world class psychologists, you have a world class facility of one of the most prestigious schools and facilities in the entire nation. I said, why are you and I even talking? And that question is so crucial because we can have a value proposition for our clients, but unless the client sees your value proposition and that what we've said is useless. And so what it does is it gives a chance for the client or potential client to name our value proposition. And as soon as we know that we can like, like we can magnify that in some way shape or form to meet their need. And so this coach said, well, you're right, I have a lot of sports psychologists right at my beckoning call. But what I don't have is a sports psychologist that also emphasizes leadership. And so they'll emphasize mental health, which I think is only part A of being really strong mentally. So part A is I, what I would call the training room. But part B is the mental gym where you get stronger. So training room to get bandaged up, the gym to get stronger. And I'm, I'm the gym. And my primary sense of what center is for me is self leadership. It's not motivation. Motivation comes and goes, it can wane. But your ability to lead yourself will absolutely and is superior to and trump your motivation. So I think your self leadership is everything. So I, one of the things that I can bring to the table is the self leadership piece, like how do I lead myself? Well, even when I'm not motivated, because if I can do that, I'm going to have a significant edge over my opponents, whether it's sports or business. So I think, yeah, that would be a really valuable, that idea of leading myself and leading myself through things and the conversation I have with myself is crucial.

Love it. Happy days.

One of the struggles that I have for myself is I don't love speaking on stage. Even though I've been on stage a thousand times, I don't love it. And so I try and talk myself into it. I'm using all my. My mental performance tactics, so I think I do okay. But I'm extremely nervous and get, you know, stage fright at times and that kind of thing. So even though I've been on stage more than a thousand times, I. I still don't love it. But I keep telling myself I'm excited, I'm not nervous, I'm excited, I'm not nervous. And so, yeah, that's one of the things I struggle with.

That's awesome. Thanks for sharing and thank you again for having a conversation. It's been really insightful and full of value, so thanks again.

You're welcome.