How I Built My Firm - Craig & Michelle Hausz

Hey. Hey. Welcome to another episode of Marketing for Accounting Firms. My name is Matt Banker. I'm the owner, founder of Benchmark Growth. We help accounting firms with their marketing. You can find us at marketingforaccountingfirms.com all this makes sense today. This is part of our series where I'm talking to firm owners, specifically firms who are part of the PASBA association to. To kind of go through How I Built my Firm miniseries to learn what are the different growth stages and how do you build a firm, whether it's from scratch or you're taking over someone else's firm. And today I have Craig and Michelle House, who are based in Texas. Two years ago, I think got the new Firm of the year award for pasba and we're going to talk a little bit about them, their firm and how they got here. So, Greg, Michelle, thanks for being on the show.

Thank you. Welcome.

Hello. You're both involved in the firm. You're both, you know, leadership, running the firm. How did this whole thing get started in the first place? Did you start from scratch? What was the situation? I'm going to make Michelle go first. Why don't you tell us your perspective. How did this whole thing get started?

I was doing some consulting on my own. Craig was working for another company. We're both CPAs and kind of decided we would rather work for ourselves. He. And why would we not do something together versus working for somebody else? So I kind of kept my clients that I had off on the side and we started our practice by acquiring two sole practitioners same day or a day apart.

Within a week.

Within a week of each other. And that's how we started the firm almost ten years ago, about nine and a half years ago at this point. And it was just the two of us and, and we got started and nine and a half years later, we have now acquired a total of seven or eight. Seven, seven practices. We've also done some internal growth. And I've told Craig every, every year I tell him we are not acquiring any more practices. We really don't need to do that to. As we keep having referrals coming in, we don't need to go buy them. But sometimes it's to acquire staff. There's been different reasons why we've kind of acquired practices to grow or it's allowed us to more quickly hire staff that we would like that maybe we couldn't afford if we're just organically growing it. So because we're doing it out of pocket and we're not independently Wealthy to start with. So.

Got it. So, Craig, whose idea was it originally to start this?

That was mine.

I, I would still be looking at whether or not we were going to ever own a firm. I don't. This is not my skill set.

Okay, so. So Craig, you're the, you're the kind of quick start or the like the visionary push. Push things forward. Tell me about it from your perspective. Why. Why did you want to start a firm?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, as you just, as you just hit on from a quick start perspective. I'm a nine and Michelle is a one. So I am like, this sounds great, let's go. And she will spend, you know, hours and days and months and years researching something so that it's perfect. I will get it started and you know, along the way we'll try to make it perfect. Yes. Figure it out as we go. Yeah, same thing. Yeah. 2024 represents our 10 year anniversary of CMH Advisors. We originally actually started the firm as House and Associates and realized that with the Z in our name, most people can't spell our name properly. And frankly, we wanted to build a firm that would grow beyond us long term. And so branding it to be a firm name that you would know that can continue on even though the initials are Craig and Michelle Howe. Cmh. We have to have that just for the fact that we're based in Texas and the state board requires initials or name and a cm CPA firm. Yeah, it was same thing. We, we both were in a position where we can continue working for other firms and, you know, not have as much control or we can set up something where we can really build something. I mean, I've, I've always felt that the accounting profession as a whole was a little broken. Right. You had a lot of practitioners that were trying to wear hats that they're probably not geared towards wearing. And I've been always a little more entrepreneurial and advisory related. So why don't we build what clients want versus just saying, you know, hey, sorry, Mr. Mrs. Client, this is what we offer and you know, fit yourself in our box versus let us fit ourselves in, you know, what the, what the public wants and needs.

Yeah. So you've grown a lot through acquisition. There was those first two initially. How quickly is that primarily the way that you've kind of expanded in the, in those 10 years? You said seven. I mean, that's almost. It's not one every year, but it's not.

It's one every other year. Every time we do one, we say we're never doing another one. Then about two years after Craig gets a B in his bonnet. And though all. But even. Even our worst one acquisition, we still say we think we do again, because it allowed us to go and hire one of our most integral.

She's our CEO.

Yeah. Our integral employees that we never would. He never would have gotten me to sign off on. I don't think we could have afforded her had we not done that acquisition. And so even the worst one was still okay.

Yeah. The. The key is we've always had enough space. We've always. We've been over. I mean, our rent as a percentage of revenue was extremely high when we set up our lease. And so we can acquire. We could add another five to eight people and really not be full. Full in the office right now, so.

Especially with people being remote.

Yeah. Now that we have hybrid remote, we have a couple people that are fully remote, couple people that are hybrid, and then a couple people that come in the office. But anybody, you know, if tomorrow. Well, tomorrow's Saturday, so nobody's working but, say, Monday was an ice day or a snow day or something. Everybody could go fully remote from that day, you know, in the morning and. And function. We've. We had that even before Coven. And so, you know, we recognize we've got clients all over the country, so having staff in other areas and team members that we can rely on, it helps quite a bit.

So I. I work with my brother, so I. I understand a little bit of that, like, relationship dynamic with someone who, you know, know you're very close with. My wife and I, we've tried to work together on some projects in the past, and we can be effective, but it's not good for us in our. In our relationship. I'm interested. Maybe. Maybe we'll. We'll. I'll make both of you answer like, Craig, what do you. What is it that Michelle kind of brings to this partnership from a business standpoint that you really appreciate? And then, Michelle, like, how. How. I'm just interested in that balance and dynamic. I mean, this is not a therapy session, but there's gotta be some tension, I imagine. And. And how do you. How do you manage that? And how do you feel like it's been making your firm better as a result?

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly where you're talking there, I'm like, wait, are we gonna have to start, you know, talking about everything in our marriage? I mean, really. I mean, the first thing. The first word that popped in my mind was stability, you know, but that's the same Whether it's our marriage or the business, once again, me being a high, quick start, like, yeah, this sounds great. Let's go on a vacation. And you know, and I'm like, oh, we'll go here and we'll, you know, and I would just do it. And she, she will help plan it and organize it and structure it so that there's stability in place, I think. I mean, honestly, I really feel like our team, this isn't a cliche. I really feel like they're, they're in a better spot having both of us than they would if it was just one of us. And that goes back to that whole, you know, EOS by Gina Wickman. Traction. You know, having a visionary and an integrator, you have to have people that are able to work both because it's really hard to have somebody that has a big picture vision of what things should be and then can go execute it at the ground level and vice versa. You can be great at execution, but if you have no really idea of where you want to go or what you want it to be, you can struggle.

So how long have we been married now?

22 years.

20, okay, so we've been married 22 years. We've worked together now for 10. When we started, I said, this is either going to be really, really good or really, really bad. There's not going to be an in between, fortunately. I'd say 95% of the time it's really good. 5% of the time I say, crap, I have to see you at work too. Because we're human and we're normal, but we have very different skill sets and we have very different things that we both enjoy doing. I don't like to do a lot of what he enjoys and is good at. He does not like to do what I enjoy doing and I'm good at. So we balance each other really well and we're not fighting. I feel like to do the same things. And then like he was saying, being a quick start and me not being at all. He is constantly looking for the newer, better thing that will make everything. He's always looking for the best thing and wants to do that. And I would never change anything even if it was completely broken. And so, and that's not. Neither one is a good thing. You don't want to change just for change. You don't want to not change because you're scared of it. So I think having both of us kind of he, you know, looking for the new, new soft, the best new software and all of that. And then I kind of. Okay, hold up. Let's make sure this is really the right thing. I feel like. I feel like it's a good balance. And like, he was saying, even with our staff, you know, he just will kind of go. And sometimes I'm like, we have a lot of different personalities in the office. I'm like, okay, you have to go and ask them about how their day was. You have to go and tell them you're thankful for them. Like, and not that he's not, but that's not. The soft skills are not, you know, his. And I mean. I mean, I don't want to say it's a woman's perspective or a man's. Like, I don't want to go that. But we do have a lot. A lot of females in the office, too, and sometimes they need, you know, I mean, I, as a woman, need a little bit more of that or I appreciate that more than I know the guy who has an office next to us. He doesn't. He doesn't care. You know, and. And there are some of the women in the office that don't care either. So I don't want to get into all that. Yeah. I just feel like more than anything, we. We balance each other really well. Yeah.

You know, I think that often the entrepreneurial drive does not necessarily like you. You. You max out your skills. Right, in certain areas. And. And it means you've got deficits elsewhere. Cause you can't be good. Very few people in the world are good at everything. And so you have to surround yourself with the people who can help balance you out. I think I have some similarities where I'm not. I love really independent people. I'm a very independent, you know, pushing forward person myself. And I need, you know, my brother for me and my business is the one who's like, hey, hey, hold on. We gotta think about the team. We gotta think about how this is affecting them. We gotta give good, know, positive affirmation, you know, at these different points. And. And that's good. And because he. He being my brother, he can speak that into me in a way that I probably wouldn't hear the same if it was just an employee. And also, I think it would be hard for an employee to be able to have that voice, you know, to me, have that confidence, you know, to tell the boss, you know, what. What's going on. So it sounds like there's a good. A good dynamic there.

It's a good dynamic. And I feel like, you know, speaking the same Language with both being CPAs helps. We're both working towards the same goal also. And so we do talk about work a lot, which is good and bad. And there are times when, you know, like I said, when we're working towards the same goal, it really is encouraging and uplifting and kind of motivating. And then there are other times I'm like, it's 10 o' clock on Friday night. Or, you know, and can we please stop talking about work? Like, I need, I need a break. And so we, you know, trying to find a balance on that a little bit and talking to some other couples in our PASBA and FRG groups who have said, you know, they just can't talk about work at the table because it was stressing their kids out. You know, I mean, there, you do have to find a little bit of a balance on that. But I mean, yeah, part of it.

Part of it's my, I'll say ADHD type mentality too, that if something pops in my head and it's Friday, you know, if it's Friday at 9 o'.

Clock.

And also I'm like, oh, wait, wait, we're. We need to make sure we talk about so. And so on Monday, if I don't wait till that, I'll forget it. And then Tuesday, I'll be like, oh, we never did that on Monday. So sometimes, yeah, there's like a. I need to at least say something out loud so that it doesn't just kind of sift through one ear and go up the other ear and then I've forgotten it.

How have your, both of your roles changed in the last 10 years? So you started off, you're both CPAs, I assume you started off doing, you were doing the production work and things like that. And how, how has that changed and how have you adapted to figure out who, who, who fits into which seat as your, as your firm has obviously grown numerically.

Right, right. We. So when we started, it was the two of us in a filing room closet, basically, that was maybe 12 by 12, 12 by 15.

In someone else's office.

In someone else's office. And we expanded to the suite next to us and added 1500ft as we grew. But yeah, I mean, it was. I did the taxes, she did the accounting and payroll. And basically then after that first year, we started hiring. We hired an accounting manager that helped a lot. We hired an admin that helped a lot. And just being able to put ourselves in a role where we could slowly divest the. The roles or tasks that we don't want. We've talked about this actually before on, on another podcast that we were on would, where it was, you know, we've always had this like, kind of green, yellow, red light mentality. Green light activities are ones you're good at and you like doing yellow. It's, you know, red light is you're not good at it and you don't like it. And then yellow is a combo. You're either good but hate it or you love it, but you're really not good at it. And so being able to do that and recognize those and then as we, as we grow, finding people that can fit in those other roles that can.

Take over our red and yellow light activities has been really important. You know, I think the hardest thing is, I think both of us. Well, there are some things I know we don't feel like we're good at and want to offload to somebody who's better. There are other things that, like, nobody can do this better than me, but you really still need to let it go in order to let somebody else have a chance of either growing and learning or just because you physically can't do all of it. And so I, you know, we have had, had, had to, you know, let other people do the tax work and other people do the accounting and payroll and finding the right people to do that so that you feel comfortable your clients are taken care of when it's not you. And I think especially this year, almost more than any other, it's been really a unique experience of. I don't feel like I personally know all of the clients like I used to, you know, their names. I'm like, who. Who is that again? You know, which is, okay, somebody else in the office is taking care of them. That is how it's supposed to be. It should. It's not supposed to be the Craig and Michelle show anymore. It's supposed to be, you know, CMH advisors. And they're very competent, better people to help them than. Than myself. And I mean, I have a different skill set than somebody else, so.

Well, the, the biggest. It's kind of funny in a way, but it's. It's also. I'm sure there's. There's plenty of people that would say, well, it's a sad view of society, but we really had to overcome the. Well, I need to talk to Craig because he's the cpa.

Yeah.

And I'm like, you can talk to me all day long because I'm a cpa, but you're missing the one who also is a CPA and who actually, she's way smarter at the accounting and payroll and all this than I am. It was interesting. It was a mindset shift because all of the practices we have purchased have been single owned by one guy. So I mean, they just, they look at, I mean, just, you know, they're like, oh, well, you know, Leonard or Albert or whoever was my cpa, so I must have to talk to Craig about this. Yeah, and we had to overcome that one. The first firm we bought was a husband wife firm, except she wasn't a professional. She was just, she did all the administrative work. I mean, she would do bank reconciliations and some basic stuff. So really getting them, getting those clients to understand, hey, you're way better served having Michelle be your point person than me. And, and clearly they figured that out quickly as well.

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not his, you know, it has taken a long time. You know, I'm not his wife. I am also a cpa. You know, I mean, I'm not, I'm not just the helper. But a lot of the firms did have, you know, the wives helping or different stuff, but they weren't licensed, they weren't, didn't have any training. And so there's, but there's always, I mean, once again, could get into all of that.

Yeah.

Well, so you guys have gone through seven acquisitions. What, what have you learned? What have you done? Well, and, you know, is there anything that you wouldn't do again?

Every one of them has a learning curve to it. And I think. And I've actually, I've had a few people reach out to me on Twitter asking me questions like, hey, you know, if I'm thinking about doing this, how can I help? How can you? What can I do to avoid. Right. You have to, I mean, it's going to be tough to find them, I think, but you have to find firms that have as many ideal clients aligned with your ideal client as possible. That helps a lot. Having team members that are aligned with that mentality of client service versus just, I just crank out a bunch of stuff and I have no accountability for it. Those are, those are some really big pieces, you know, and one, the one that we would consider our worst partially was, you know, it's just we, we found out after the fact, we get in there and go, oh, wow. I mean, they had hundreds of clients that they didn't even know they had. You know, people were starting to call up in the tax season, like, oh, I'm a client I'm like, I don't even have your name down anywhere. Like when have you been a client?

Yeah, and they had, they, they sold it that oh the, you know, four people were doing all the work. And we came to find out two people were also there during tax season that were no longer there but they never told us about. So there was just. And you know, they had never increased their fees, the clients, you know. Yeah, like some of the clients were really well priced. Some were so like barely paying anything. Some were free. I mean it was, they, it just, it wasn't great, you know. And I think it makes a big difference on staff are, you know, if you do an acquisition and you are possibly not inheriting because you do have to hire them, but if you're getting staff with them, are you prepared for that? Is your financing set up? That. That was the most of the firms that we bought that we maybe acquired one person or two people, you know, you can kind of absorb or we could absorb that salary. This Last one has six, six, um, and several CPAs, several higher end ones and trying to have to pay those salaries before the money starts coming in that supporting them, I wasn't, we weren't necessarily as prepared for. And that made for a little bit of a, you know, sleepless nights for a little while which we were totally fine and it's all fine. But you know, I would, I. We had never built working capital into our financing. We had never needed it before. And so I, I want to stress that to anybody thinking of an, doing an acquisition is do you need working capital and to push that in.

And.

Just culture, culture with the people too. Right. Are they used to working as a team or are they very individualistic? You know, if you have a bunch of individuals and suddenly you're like, hey, we're a team. You know, you, you need to rely on other people here to, to help you. It can be like, oh, I'm. I'm not used to that. Like, I'm used to kind of holding on to my fiefdom and not letting go and so. But I think they see the big picture that hey, we're all going to be stronger together than separate and still.

Trying to really get an integration. I mean we're still working on that a little bit because the cult. Not that the cultures were so different, but you know, whether it's a buddy system of an existing employee and somebody new because, I mean I think everybody really likes each other. It's just you kind of notice, you know, you all get together as A team and one group sitting off to the side together, and the other, you know, they're separate. And I'm like, that's not what. You know, we want it to all be together. Still working on it. I mean, nothing. Yeah, nothing. And other times, they're really excited that they have new people. I mean, we've had that, too. It's like, oh, my goodness. I'm so glad. I'm so thankful. So, right.

From my perspective, you know, when I think about acquisitions, hiring is so hard right now in the accounting world. And so to me, that seems like one of the, you know, one of the benefits to having that as. As a part of your growth strategy. Now, as a marketer, I would. I would say, like, hey, let's grow through marketing. Then you get to interview every client before you take them on. But it sounds like you've done a lot of due diligence beforehand to make sure that there's a good client fit with the acquisition. Not just. Not just for the people, but. But is that. Has it been hard to find the right fit, or is this just. Do you feel like you're lucky? Do you feel like you're. How. How is that kind of happen for you?

You know, honestly, we have multiple resumes of people right now that we could hire if we really wanted to. We got two. One we interviewed last week and another one. So, I mean, knock on wood, you know, we actually have a decent. I don't know if it's a marketing path, whatever you call acquisition for talent as well. It definitely helps when they come over with a firm because they're already used to working on the clients. You don't have to train them or anything. Yeah, Yeah. I think what people are seeing in the industry with trying to find talent, we're not seeing. And surprisingly, I don't know if that's because we've built that production model. We've built the flexibility. We've built the firm that people want to work for. That doesn't mean we don't have turnover. We had somebody, you know, left because they wanted to be five minutes from their house versus 20. And, you know, and then the firm offered them a really, really high salary, like, much more. It's just, I mean, you know, I tell people, it's like, listen. I mean, some of it's just a math issue, like, I can't bill $100,000 and pay you $100,000. That doesn't. Those numbers don't match. Right. And so there's got to be a way to build It. And, but if somebody's going to come in and overpay, you know, I tell them the same thing. What's your workload? Like, would you want to work 30% more? Would you want to make 20% more, but you have to work 30% more to get it, you know, or we have, I mean, we have a new tax senior we hired here in the fall and, you know, it's really a. Hey, listen, if you want to make more money, I mean, clearly, you know, with the same number of hours you should make, not significantly, but you should make materially more than you would at your prior place.

And that's really what that was working then. What? Yeah, yeah, 75 hours. I mean, yeah, we don't work those hours. I mean, you didn't work one Saturday during tax season.

I haven't worked one weekend this year. Yeah, not even during tax season. Entire year. My goal. I actually told them this the other day and they kind of laughed a little bit. And I said, what if we set it up so that we have enough boundaries in place that everybody can leave, can leave by noon on Fridays and not work weekends at all, even during tax season? And they kind of all were like, well, I don't know, I want. Somebody's like, well, what if I want to work more? I'm like, well, okay, you can work more if you want to and you get paid more, you work more. So the incentive is there, but I don't want the demand to be there. You know, I want them to go, I make a decent amount and then I have the flexibility to go above and beyond that. And that's, it's hard to tell people that that, that's really the case. Our tax director came over from, you know, Big four originally, and then they were at a national firm for a few years and the national firm came in and said, oh, yeah, we're, you know, work life balance can be so much better. And it was the same thing, same workload as Big four. And it's like, well, if I'm going to work those hours, I might as well be at the big name firm. And didn't. It took a while, took a couple months of like, you know, meetings. And you know, we consider our interview process more of a meeting process. Right? It's not like, hey, we met with you, you go through this, this, and then we'll give you an offer tomorrow. We want to really get to know people and make sure they're going to be a great fit for the team. And, you know, it really, it was like he's like, I don't know, I've heard this before. I don't think this is the true. And so it's on me. It's the demand is to me to build the environment. So that. That is true.

Yeah.

Right. And how do you do that? And it's ideal clients and having pricing that's the right way. And then having an open, you know, back to the marketing side. It's having a, a funnel that is create ideal client and. Or ideal team members to be part of the team.

Yeah, I, but I, I think like, and I feel like we're getting enough referrals from other clients now from other ideal clients. Like, you know, that. I mean, once again, I would never do an acquisition ever again if I can help it. It's the right thing in front of me. You know, like I said, every two years that would be next November that we'd be up on another one. But acquisitions, I mean it's either been word of mouth, like we've known somebody, sometimes it's been through a broker. I mean it's really been a variety of different ways that they've kind of either been presented to us or fallen in our lap. I mean we do get quite a few like sent to us and we're like, no, no, no, you know, it's tax only, don't want it. And I think as we were looking at those, it's like, okay, what do we need to do to our firm in order to make it so it would be attractive in the future? I mean ideally we would love it if somebody internal would buy us out. That would. That's the ideal goal. But if not, even so I want to set it up for them so that they would want to buy it or if we're going to ever sell to somebody else that it's something attractive to somebody else.

We want something that provides enterprise value beyond either of us being in the mix. I use the term self multiplying firm. There's kind of multiple stages. You go through where you're doing all the work, then you have it to where it becomes self managing. It can manage itself without it, but it doesn't grow. You're still doing the sales. And then beyond that is a self multiplying. Like you have a sales team, they're developing ideal leads and you just become the owner of the firm. That's kind of the, the path that leads to, I think from my perspective, ideal value for a buyer and us.

Yeah. Were you all using doing a version of production pay before you joined pasba. I know that's a big part of. Tell me. Tell me about that. You got. You were recognized as new firm of the year. What changed? Why did you join pasba and what changed when you did?

Well, you know, once again, you got your nine. Quick start. I see some CPA talking about, man, I've been in pasba, and I love it because. Because it helps us, you know, structure our firm in a way that is great for us as the owner. And so I signed Michelle up for it. And you right before COVID It was right before COVID Yeah. It was kind of fall of 2019. And, you know, so then it's, you know, everything's going on, and she's not really integrated with it, and I'm kind of there, and the next thing you know, you know, we start jumping in a little bit, and I'm like, hey, really? This is. This is really good stuff. Like, these firms are. Have been around for a long time. You know, you talk about Bert Deerhoff and Jerry Sikevich and, you know, these Nolans and Milwaukee and Hestrider and some of these firms. Matt Patrick out of Memphis, that, you know, you're just like, holy cow, they are amazing. And not to leave out Tyler Thompson. Yeah, I could go through, like, firms that are like, holy. I mean, and. And then you go to a conference, and I don't want this to be a full PASBA commercial, but at the same time, you go to a conference and they're all sharing ideas. Well, hey, have you thought about doing it this way? And I talk about this with our team, too. I want them to always be looking for ways to do it, you know, faster, easier, cheaper, or bigger and what. And then being able to do the same thing with what we're doing. But, yeah, it's, you know, from a firm growth and joining PASBA and jumping in production, it's been a three to four year process of going, this really is the right way to do this. And I haven't found anybody that's taught me or showed me anything better. So.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The first conference that apparently I went to was during COVID It was virtual. And I sat in our conference room and listened to, you know, people on tv. I didn't really realize what I was doing or that he had signed me up for this thing because, I mean, I, you know, never having been, and now actually then getting to do it in person, he's like, yeah, remember you went last year and online what I did. But I do feel like, you know, Having the support. Everybody is very open to share, share what's worked, share what hasn't worked. And I mean, I do feel like it's been encouraging to us to try and change things. And as we restructure things and unfortunately you get fire hosed and it's like, okay, pick one or two things, change those, then come back the next year or the next, you know, six months later, okay, now we've changed these, let's work on the next two. And versus trying to overhaul everything all at once, which of course he wants to do. I don't want to change anything. I mean, I do, because I do. See, I mean it is better. I'm trying to think two years after we bought the firm, two years after that we bought the firm, we went on a vacation for a month as a family. Is that right? Two or three years.

Four years. Four years after 2018.

Okay. Four years after we bought the firm, the, the two of us went on a long vacation with our kids. Which if he had told me, you go out for business on your own and you're going to be able to take a month off, I would have laughed at him and said, there's no way that is even possible. And I feel like as we acquire and grow, like we get pulled back into the production side and don't feel like we can go on vacation the same and then, you know, have to offload it again. And we're planning on being gone another three weeks this summer. And I feel like sometimes that's a big motivator of, okay, what do I need to, you know, have the people that I'm paying to work for me, you know, pay, you know, do I need to transfer and train them on how to do so I can go on a vacation? And even for them, like, okay, some, some of the staff want to hold so tightly to what it is they, because they feel like it's job security. I'm like, that's not job security. You need to cross train your peers so that I want you to be able to go on vacation and be able to enjoy your time off so that you're more motivated to work. So it, you know, I just feel like pasba, you know, trying to get out of that production, which is hard with two of us. I feel like getting both of us out. I don't know if that will ever 100% happen.

Well, it's going to have to at some point. At some point we, we're not going to be able to keep working.

But yeah, yeah, but I feel like, there's been a lot of encouragement for me, especially being female. There's a lot of Pasba, FEMA, CPAs, business owners. There are plenty of husband and wife teams, even some, some, some of them are both CPAs, some are not. But just kind of having that encouragement, even on a work life balance, they, you know, is. And the ones that have kids or don't, that's. I've really needed that and that has been very helpful for me.

Yeah. Community, community is a big thing and regardless of anywhere you, what you're doing is having that around you so that you can share, teach, learn with others that are in the same boat, you start realizing that you're not the only one experiencing this.

Yeah. Well, I don't want to keep you all day. I had one thing I wanted to touch on before we go. Craig, you are very active on Twitter, on Tax Twitter and Cast Twitter and all of that.

Golf Twitter. Yeah, Golf Twitter for sure.

Okay.

Yeah. Well, what do you feel like that's been good for your firm and how has that impacted just being active on social media?

We got a client and our new tax senior found him Twitter and then moved his family across the country and is now sitting a couple deaths over and working for us found through Twitter.

Wow, that's a pretty, that's a pretty big deal.

No, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I didn't even touch on that last time we had talked. Yeah. I mean, it, you know, we've, yeah, we got a great client that we've been able to work with this last year and a half and he's actually referred other clients to us. So we have several of our monthly accounting clients are because of Twitter now. I mean, I, I'm not one of those that goes on and develops content necessarily. Every once in a while I'll post something that's content related, but really it's me trying to save the world. I always kind of jokingly say, you know, I think, I think there are things that I find that could be done cheaper, faster, easier, bigger. And helping others do that is, you know, it can come across sometimes as being snippy, but at the same time, I mean, I want people to be better. And obviously, as we've seen, social media can be a cesspool of people that give either bad advice or say the wrong things or get in fights with each other. I haven't ventured to the tick tock world and I don't think that's probably going to be in my cards because that's even more from what I've seen. But, yeah, I think a lot of business owners, especially now, everybody can get information wherever you want it. You literally go on your phone, your watch. I mean, who knows, Data, information shows up and being able to help people disseminate that. And then frankly, you can connect to people all over the globe and learn things, you know, and so I do use it a lot for golf stuff and sharing golf stories. So it's much more of a personal brand for me.

Yeah.

Than a content deliverable that I'm trying to generate hundreds and thousands of leads off of. And then, like I, like I said, I've had younger, younger CPAs reach out and go, hey, I'm thinking of acquiring a firm. I see you've done this a bunch. How can I help right now? How. How can you, you know, how can I ask you some questions? And so we'll either jump on a call or, you know, exchange DMs through that, you know. Yeah, I don't, you know, Brittany, who we hired three years ago to be marketing and does a lot of our client onboarding, you know, has always joked, like, we need to do, you know, we probably should be a little more formal about it if you're going to do this, but, you know, it works despite itself. But I'd love to figure out ways to make it better.

Yeah. Well, I think there's, I think there are advantages to having someone in the firm leadership who's able to be kind of a public face. I think some of the things that I see really working well for you is authenticity, I think is important. And even just the golf content, like, that's, it's getting other people who are not just CPAs, you know, interacting with some of your content, and that's potentially customers. But I think a big piece of it is also. You've got that authenticity, but you have, you have a little bit of a spiky point of view, which I think is important. If you want to stand out and actually be a part of conversations, you have to be putting an opinion out there that isn't just, you know, going to, you know, mix in with everybody else's idea. You know, you want, you have to have some, some reason to have a conversation. I mean, maybe you're wrong sometimes, I don't know. But at least you're, you're participating in that conversation. I've seen some of your exchanges, you know, some. Everybody, not everybody, but, you know, other people have strong opinions in the other direction. It's more important to have, I think, a clear point of view than it is to. Because there are so many different ways to success. Right. And so I think when you have a clear point of view, you're gonna, you're gonna attract the people who that really resonates with and there might be someone else who has an entirely different approach and they're also very successful and different people are gonna resonate with that. Okay, well, let's. We're going to kind of land this plane. As you're from where you're sitting 10 years in, is there one or two pieces of advice that you would give to someone who's thinking about, you know, purchasing a firm or starting their own practice today? What's the advice you'd give them?

Find a great spouse who compliments you. Right. And can help with that? No, I think find what you, you have to have a vision for what you love doing and that you're good at and then focus on that as your North Star. I think that helps more than anything is having that big picture vision for what grounds you and what. Where you want to go more than anything.

That sounds like the visionary. How about from the integrator? What's your advice?

I was going to say make sure you have the financing in place that you know, you have set, not over committed yourself in other areas so that you can invest in the business. Don't you know it's not the time to go buy the brand new car, the brand new house or go on the super expensive vacation. Just be prepared that it's going to be, it's going to be tough the first year or two and. But to set yourself up and figure out where can you get those income streams so that not worried about that versus focusing on your business. Yeah, I think.

And then having the right mentorship.

Yeah.

Relationships around you to, to help you navigate through that. I mean it's the same thing. We want clients to hire us as an advisor to help them navigate pitfalls. We also as firm owners need people to help us navigate that. And you know somebody that's done it, not just like, oh, I'm a coach and here, hire me and I'll teach you how to do this. Like how many of these have you done? I think that's a big piece is having that knowledge base.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, that's so great. It's been great chatting with both of you. I love the dynamic that you bring and I know that you people speak very highly of you in the PASBA community. And from what I see on Twitter, people seem to like Craig on Twitter. So yeah, you guys are doing, you're doing a great job. I think your firm is one really to look to as one that people can and should be thinking about and emulating as they're, as they're thinking about their own, their own thing.

So we're trying.

We're trying one day at a time.

We're not perfect either. We are still, you know, but we are trying and we're doing it with.

Two teenage daughters, too. So.

Yeah. Hey, that's, that's its own marathon, right?

Yes.

Okay. Well, again, thank you. Thanks for being on here. We'll leave it there. This has been marketing for accounting firms and had Craig and Michelle House on here and. Yeah, we'll leave it there. Thanks. This podcast, marketing for Accounting Firms, is brought to you by Benchmark Growth Marketing, a marketing agency that helps accounting firms get more calls booked through their website. You can find us@benchmarkgrowthmarketing.com Connect with me, Matt Benker on LinkedIn.