How to Turn Free Advice into Paying Clients

But we also then looked at it like, what if we gave it away for free? Is there any opportunity for us if we give this away for free?

You're listening to the Marketing for Accounting Firms podcast. Each episode we have conversations with firm owners and marketing experts about how to attract your ideal clients, foster trust, and build a marketing engine that works for an accounting firm. I'm your host, Matt Banker. I'm the founder of Benchmark Growth Marketing. You can find more episodes and subscribe to our newsletter at marketingforaccountingfirms.com now here's the show. All right, I got Andrew Lacis on the show today. Andrew, thanks. Thanks for joining us on the podcast.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me.

So you're a tech guy, you're an IT guy. This is the Marketing for Accounting Firms show. Why, why are you here? What, what's your like, background, experience? What do you know about marketing and I guess give us a little bit of background on your business and what you do.

Yeah, so like the super long story short, right, the last decade I've run an IT company, so you know, why am I here? Right? Well, what happened is I, I did the math. I've spent over half a million dollars hiring like expert marketers. That would get me a negative return on investment. And like I'd started off, I'd be on like fiverr and it's like, dude will write for $4 like a blog, guaranteed results and I wouldn't get results. And I was like, well, maybe I gotta spend more money. And then other person kind of the same. And I kept seeing the same cycle over and over and it's like, it's a great pitch but like it's not working. And then Covid hit and I hired a full time marketer that gets flown out to speak at conferences and stuff, like way out of budget. But like, I wanted to see what it was really like working with an expert expert. And he also, after nine months, wasn't producing results. And so that was kind of the moment where I was like, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and focus my attention here because zero to two leads per week isn't going to be enough to sustain this company. And so running my tech company, my role really shifted to business development and marketing and growing the company. Focusing on the front end, like our back end was great. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. Being like, I am great at what I do, but unfortunately in this day and age, that's not enough to be great at what you do, because people won't know if you exist if you are not marketing and getting out there. And so 2019 happened. The IRS said all tax accountants need to have a wisp, a written information security plan. My own accountant asked me to help him with it and I was like, sure, how hard could it be? And I spent a week doing it for him. Just a small firm, four people. And at the end of it I was like, there is no way on earth that non technical people are going to be able to put this together. It was a pain for me as my full time job to put it together. So there is no way that people are going to do this themselves. And so then it was kind of like, you know, maybe we should focus in the accounting industry and learned a lot of things along the way. Like bookkeepers don't do tax. And if somebody does audit, that doesn't mean that like they're an IRS audit on your taxes. Like there's a lot of different nuances in that field of what is an accountant. And we learned it as we yeah. Niched down in it and eventually kind of positioned ourselves, drew a line in the sand for like we are going to do it specifically for accounting firms. Learn to speak their language and see where it goes. And once we started doing that, that's when things really started to take off for us.

Yeah, well, as when we talked, we talked about kind of framing this conversation around how to use Franklin Free Content as a marketing tool. But one thing I'll just say is I own a marketing firm. You own an IT tech company, professional services. There's a lot of similarities in terms of the types of activities that tend to work in marketing. We're not E commerce, we're not putting yard signs out for roofers and blacktop pavers. It's a different model of marketing, but there's a lot of overlap. And so you know, I love you have a real specialty in accounting firms from the IT side of things, but also like you can learn so much from folks who are similar to you but not quite in your same interest in industry because sometimes we get into these echo chambers where all we know what to do is what everybody else like all of our peers are doing. And it's helpful to kind of get outside that just, just a little bit. Let's. In the context of like free content, what in, in the history of your company, what has been the most effective piece of free content or channel or way that you've been creating stuff specifically for accounting firms? What, what have you seen Work the.

Best for you, definitely for us, because. And the first thing you need to identify if you're going the niche route, which I highly, highly recommend doing, just from my own experience of higher revenue per client, higher profitability per client, the easiness it is to train somebody because they don't have to know everything about everybody, they have to know a lot about one specific person. So once we identified, we are going to work specifically with accountants. And then we discover as we dig in, it's like a bookkeeper is very different than someone that's only doing taxes seasonally. And so learning that we actually have to, even though they're under the accountant umbrella, we have to speak to different people, different ways. But as far as the free content goes to back to my story with the written information security plan, my thought when I went into it was there has to be a template somewhere. And I just plop in. The information did not exist. 20, 19 did not exist. And so we were kind of at a crossroads of we should just sell this. Like we could sell it for 20 bucks. Infinitely scalable. And even if we only hit a small percentage of the market, it's still going to pay for itself or the time invested in it. But we also then looked at it like, what if we gave it away for free? Is there any opportunity for us if we give this away for free? And the truth is with the people that we work with, very, very meticulous, want to do their due diligence, are not going to just make a knee jerk decision for the latest and greatest. So they want to be educated, they want to learn, they want to see it for themselves. And so we say here it is, here is the template, the first one that ever existed and if you need help, we can do it for you. If you don't need help, maybe you know someone else who does. It could be shared with them. And so what we're doing with the free content is building ourselves as a reputable source to solve a very specific problem for a very specific type of person. And this concept isn't something that I thought of myself. And I'm the pioneer of free content in order to build an email list. But that was how we built it. And I used to try to build it. It was like seven mistakes every business owner makes download from us and no one cared, nobody downloaded it.

But.

But it was like, you are legally required by the government to do this thing and there are no resources on it. Yeah, by default I am the expert because no one exists yet. That's doing this. But if you need help, who else would you go to other than the person that already provided the value?

Yeah. Here's what I love about this. There's like three. Three levels to it. One, you were creating something that was so valuable you could have actually sold it. Right.

Like people do.

Yeah. And. And the now people do difference between, you know, because information is kind of commoditized. If you could find the information in your, like, PDF download through a simple Google search or now, like a chat GPT prompt, no one's ever going to pay for that. Right. And if you give it away for free, they're still paying because they know they're getting onto your email list. Right. And we are like, we care about that, but you don't mind if you're getting something of real value and it feels like a deal. If it's the sort of thing like, you know, I could see paying $20, $50 for this, it would have been great value for them, I'm sure. But you're giving it away for free, therefore generating goodwill upfront and saying, hey, we're here to actually help you. The other thing is, like, it was. It was tied to a really acute and singular problem. You, as a tech company, IT company solve a lot of problems for your customers, but you were able to start that relationship by solving one tiny, small and acute issue that they were having. So that they were. It was easy to sort of enter into that relationship with you as, as a company. So I think that that sounds like it's working really well. I see so many of those. Those PDF downloads that are like, you know, six things you should think about taxes in 2024. And it's kind of, I don't know, I automatically just hit that X button, like, close it out when I see that pop up. And maybe it's helpful, but it's not, like, tight enough. It's not specific enough for my needs that I'm willing to give up my email address for it these days.

Right. But what if it was something like, Here are the 50 ways that digital marketers could be saving money in bookkeeping and taxes every year for free.

Yeah, I might. I'd probably. I'd probably go to a webinar on that. There's a. There's a good. There's a company, an accounting firm. I think they got bought by Anders maybe. But Jody Gruden is a guy, he does. He has this presentation where he goes through, like, the financial management of a. Of a marketing agency. And he spoke at a conference And I thought, man, I would 100% download something along those lines of like what should my overhead percentages be? And that kind of like there's real opportunity for you to draw out and identify specific value for this is what I think you're saying is like when you define it and narrow it around a really particular customer, that's very specific to them. I think what doesn't tend to work is that that like six strategies every small business owner should have because the very generic. Yeah that it's not as useful for me.

This week's episode is sponsored by Benchmark Growth Marketing. Helping your accounting firm expand your niche with branding, positioning, websites, SEO and marketing strategy. If you're an accounting firm looking to.

Fix your marketing benchmark is your go to solution.

Learn more at marketingforaccountingfirms.com now back to the program. And this is actually a great use case. So for you, I had said you create this downloadable PDF to apply to you and your response was that's not really something that I would go for. So see understanding your target market and how they react to things. So when someone isn't niched.

Yeah.

They may think I must do a. I mean here me like if you had hired me to do marketing for you, which would be kind of ironic, right. But like if you had hired me to do marketing, I'd start with when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And so it's like, well, let's make this PDF to try to, to get marketing agencies on board. But like you said, you're not the PDF guy, you're the webinar guy. So knowing that information about you, you double down in webinars and give your presentations that way, build the list that way, build the credibility that way. Because that is the way that appeals to you specifically.

Yeah.

And for someone like me, the download isn't something that I go for either. I'm more of. I want hands on. Let me see it, feel it. The free trial things work well in SaaS and technology. So it really starts with understanding your client and solving a problem that they want solved in a way that they want it to be solved. It's not the way the marketer wants them to solve it. Because, you know, if we had our way, you would fill out two pages of demographic information so we could hyper target our marketing and messaging to help solve an extremely specific problem. But if your landing page has 17 fields in it, you're going to lose everybody.

There's a challenge for accounting firms, right. Most of the Ones that we work with. And I'm assuming a lot of the ones you work with are not in a niche. They have, they don't have a real specific market. They, they're usually, if they're a generalist, they usually have like an area of business geographic, geographically focused instead of industry focused. And I think what we're saying, it's not that creating free content if you're a generalist firm is, is impossible, but it's just hard. What I've seen is the more general the content, the less effective it is. And so I see a lot of firms, you know, they, they get farm. They get content from someplace else and then they repost it to their website or they write for a really generalist audience or they're, you know, they're using a copywriter or someone who, who doesn't have a lot of subject matter expertise that's really just kind of going out there to like add keywords to their website. But I wouldn't say it's the thing that's really like you said, you went from a couple leads, you know, to like hundreds of leads because you had this really valuable thing. And the specificity of it, I think was a really key part of what probably was working for you.

Right. And you know, if we look at just the, the Google keyword research people that are looking up IRS wisp written information security plan, data security plan, we're only getting a couple hundred searches per month, so we have to convert high on it very specifically because there just isn't a ton of volume for that specific search. Like one of the things that we rank, we're number two behind the IRS where it's like super, super specific. Like 30 searches.

Yeah.

Per month. Like we happen to be in that spot but generate opportunities from it because it's long tail, very specific. So you know, you had mentioned though, a lot of people, it is a. I can do everything for everyone and there's not a problem with that. Yeah, it's difficult to spend a lot of money, especially if you're a smaller firm, to try to reach a gigantic area and every single industry because you're not going to have specific messaging if you're targeting someone that does E commerce, someone that sells shoes and a restaurant all on the same block. So but what they have in common. Right. They're on the same street. So maybe there is some specific like, oh, this counts as. And I mean, I'm just throwing stuff out there, inventing. But obviously an expert would be able to hone in on this but like, if you are on Main street, you could qualify for this deduction, this exemption. So there's still in. Even in a small area of, of where you are targeting, you can still focus in that area. My friend has a handyman business. Handyman are a dime a dozen. And he charges at the top end of and he does a lot of local marketing. So to him it doesn't matter what industry you're in because it's residential. It's like, do you own a house? Yeah, great, you qualify. But like, what type of homeowner did you just move into a new house? Working with a realtor. Okay, you just moved in this house. A lot of stuff's not the way that you want it. Well, I work hand in hand with that Realtor and I know that when people get a new house, maybe you don't like the paint color. So I can offer like we could paint it the shade that you prefer. So still you can. Even if it's a generalist, there is still something in there. And I mean, we were general to everybody. So a remote IT company, we were going against 492,000 other private IT companies. Now how to differentiate yourself other than charging nothing for your services? Yeah, right. And that's really where we looked into. It's not the only solution. But in an industry that gets very, very commoditized and you know, you've got norton saying for 20 bucks you've got all the cybersecurity you need. And it's like. So you think, like, you think American Airlines got hacked because they forgot Norton. You know, like what's, what's really, like what people need. So when going back around to though solving a very specific problem, getting that information and then keeping the conversation going. So when people download our free wisp, for instance, they get a couple of emails teaching them each day, here is a way to do it better. Here's more information on the thing that you just downloaded. And so we're building the authority in it. And whether this is conscious or subconscious, when the IRS starts saying you need to have a wisp in their head somewhere, even they don't remember who you were, which isn't the goal. But even if they didn't, I remember I downloaded a free template somewhere. Google Free wisp template. That's right. It was tech for accountants.

Yep.

So even re downloading it re going through the, the sequence of marketing.

Yeah.

It's still. That is what has worked for us in differentiating ourselves from 492,000 other companies. And we were Just acquired a couple months ago. And it's like they came to us and we were not for sale. Like, it wasn't a. Well, I hired a broker and was looking to sell the company. They came to us specifically for the exact specific problem that we solve better than anybody else and had built the reputation on. And it doesn't have to be, though. Like, you know, our Grand Slam was 2019. The IRS said you need a wisp. They didn't give a template, and they do now. So now it's like, well, what's our differentiator versus the actual IRS? And it's like, ours is easier, right? There's a 64 pages. Ours is 20. Ours is easier. It's designed for the smaller firms. Those are for the bigger guys, like, really, really honing in and getting that difference. I mean, I'm saying the same thing over and over, right? But, like, that's really what's been key for us in getting dozens, hundreds, thousands of leads per day when it used to be zero to two a week.

Well, there's a couple. There's kind of a cycle of, of how this works, right? So there's a. There's a couple things happening. One, you. You got curious and you decided, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna dig deeper into what a particular customer needs and I'm gonna learn about that customer. And, and that has to really. It doesn't always have to be an owner, but, like, someone has to become a subject matter expert on something in order to have a point of view and to have that really valuable insight or like, the ability to solve that specific problem problem. You can't. You can't rely on an outside marketing company to come up with that expertise for you. You. There are many copywriters out there, but someone in your firm, if you're really going to create very good content, needs to get curious and find specific problems to solve. And so you did that, and then you created the content, and then you started putting it out there in a place where that ideal audience would. Would find you. And I'm a marketer. We sell marketing services. We help clients write articles, you know, create this content, create podcasts, all that stuff. The thing that we don't do or we stopped doing a while ago was we stopped writing for clients because we found that the value of the content without a true subject matter expert attached to it was just so low. It's very expensive still for us to write it. It's just the value on the other end to their clients. And the. You know the ROI that they were getting from it. It just like the math really didn't work out. I just, I could be a good salesperson and sell them on the idea, but I didn't like the results that we were getting for.

Right.

Without that subject.

Right.

Expert.

So did you, did you pivot at all? Like, did you start as a generalist and then. And then hone in a bit?

Yeah, we did. And my last name is banker. So originally we sort of half niched into let's work with financial advisors and investment funds and accountants. Anyone who works with money. The last.

Right, right. You work, you work with money, we work with you all the same.

Yeah. So we thought that made sense. But then, you know, we realized the needs of a financial planner are entirely different than.

Absolutely.

So, like, what we had is I had in my mind a favorite market. Like, oh, I like working with this person, that person and that person. What really did it for us, and it sounds like for you is when instead of thinking about, like, who do I want to work with and how do I get more of them? It was, what do I have that's really valuable for a specific market? And you flip it around and say, and for you, is this the wisp, you know, technical expertise, understanding, you know, what it was that they needed. And you were able to create something to address their need. Instead of trying to convince them that they needed you, you just put yourself out there solving a problem that they had.

Right. And everyone hates. I mean, that's, you know, one of the biggest pain points for the people that we work with and running their own firms is nobody wants to be salesy. And that's why everyone loves the referral. Right. It's somebody that is willing and able and looking for your services. You were just recommended. So a lot of the due diligence has been handled for you by an already happy client. So a lot of that initial, how do I gain your trust? That's already happened through your friend who you trust, and just through the. Is it the transitive or associative property? Whichever it is. Right. It's like, I trust this person, they trust that person. Therefore I trust that person. And you know, so it's easy. It's not selling. It's here is how I can help you. So how can you do that at scale is I'm helping everyone that has this specific problem. And 97% of the people that download it, take it and run with it, don't contact us, don't do anything. I've actually seen people Redo it like other tech companies, right. Someone will come to us and be like, oh yeah, someone else made my wisp. Can you look at it? And it's like this looks eerily similar to the exact thing thing. And some of it, it's like, it's very like nuance specific. Like I thought of it because it was very, very, very, very intentional. And it's like, it seems like you had either that exact same idea or copy pasted and changed a couple words. But regardless, you know, we, we started seeing other opportunities that maybe this year we'll look into, but other tech companies coming to us to help with their accountant clients. So we're not getting the accountant client, we are getting the tech as a channel partner because we've provided value to the people that needed to provide value to their clients. So all these different opportunities coming from solving a very, very specific problem.

Yeah, well, and I do want to, I mean I want to circle back and say like if you're not yet a niche firm, there are other ways I think to sort of address this one. One that I really like is if you're on, if you're in a partnership model, either you have partners or it's possible for people in your firm to become partners. I think a great kind of business marketing model is to ask individuals to start to specialize in a type of client, become a subject matter expert, you know, learn, you know, become the restaurant person at your firm, become the, I don't know, the IT person or the interior designers person. And then you can develop those relationships, that expertise, you can create content for your firm. You know, that goes that, that adds to that expertise. If you're just a staff accountant, data firm, you should do this as well. You're going to become very valuable to the firm. There's a risk for the firm owner is if they develop someone who's an expert in a field, that person is very well set up to go out and start their own thing. And so, you know, if you're going to ask a, an employee to become the restaurant person, they need to, they should have a long term stake in your company because of how valuable it becomes for your business. You don't want them to like.

Right.

Knowledge.

Right. And that'll come around to things like culture and I mean that's, that's a different conversation. But I mean I've been an entrepreneur, business owner for the last decade and now I'm like fourth level management in a giant corporation. Right. And like the job, it's completely different than anything that I've done, but I have extremely specialized knowledge. Not only that I've executed on it before, obviously during the acquisition, sign a non compete, but throw that out the window. Right. Pretend I didn't. They treat me extremely well. So the likelihood for me to again, even if I legally was allowed to, the likelihood of me going out, starting over, doing it on my own from zero versus how well it is right now, like the upside is going to have to be gigantic versus how well they treat me already. So seeing it from both sides of the coin, you know, being, being the entrepreneur that, that did it. And I mean I obviously look at everything through the owner lens and well now I am an employee. Well, I know what I want employees to think like and act. But yes, you can become, have someone that becomes very specialized in that one thing and you can leverage it and you can learn from it. And you know, if there's a culture of transparency where they can teach other people to like they get security through being a leader, if the culture is that way, where it's not, well, I have to hold all the information and maybe that's not the person that you'd want. I mean this is a very, very different conversation. Right, like the HR retention conversation and like how you treat your employees. Yeah, but in the marketing aspect you're absolutely right though. You can have somebody that can niche and okay, we've got three restaurants. What are the similarities between them? Well, they have high turnover and there's a lot of cash that's involved. Okay, well legally we need to be claiming that cash, but the servers are de incentivized to claim the cash because then they're paying taxes on it. So things like that, that are very specific for that very specific thing, you can have one person, it's like okay, you know, all of our restaurants, they run into this problem and they need an HR solution like on the back end instead of hiring like paychecks or adp, something that's very flexible for their particular situation, they could get a blanket, everybody does everything. Or we could have, do you have a lot of turnover and a lot of cash figuring out okay, people's payroll with what they claim? Like I worked in restaurants for 10 years, so I'm just throwing that as the example. But you know, it's like how could we, who do we have that could appeal to those specific opportunities? And then when you can speak their language and say oh yeah, you should 86 year old accountant. And they'd be like hahaha, like that's a restaurant. Term.

Right.

So, I mean, it's a terrible example, but being able to.

Yeah, it shows some knowledge of and expertise in the space. I'm not above puns, you know, as a way to, like, get your foot in the door and say, hey, we understand you and we know, like, your industry and stuff like that.

Right, right. And someone that can speak your language, it becomes a trusted source. Like, if you go to a country like this, literally works. Like, I was in Italy on my honeymoon and nobody spoke English, and Google Translate isn't nearly what it is now. And so I remember I was. I was in a grocery store, and this girl was, like, trying to speak broken Italian to me, and I was trying to get back, and I was like, wait, do you speak English? She's like, oh, thank God. Right? Like, best friend on the trip. Right there. Because we speak the same language, we can communicate, and there's inherent trust that we can't just take for granted. Now, in America. Wow, Matt, you speak English, right? Right. It's commoditized here. But in that specific instance, yeah, Like, I would have signed over my life to her because we speak the same language. But like, in America, it's like, yeah, you're just like everyone else. Yeah, we all speak English.

Well. Okay. As. As we kind of wrap things up here. Most of the firm. Most of the listeners are owners of accounting firms. You've been a business owner. Let me just ask you, when did you first start working, if you did with an accountant or what kind of accountants, accounting things have you. Have you worked with in the past? And then from your perspective, I don't know if it's just about the IT space, but what is the most valuable thing that you've gotten out of your partnerships with?

Yeah, that's actually a great question. So when I started off, it's me in my living room. I had a girl who's a controller, and she does my books and referred me to someone else to do taxes. And then the guy who's doing my taxes, and I didn't know any difference between anything. Very, very old school. I'd get a piano like, three months later, bank reconciliation. Didn't understand any of it, but just sent me the compliance work, and he checked the box that was supposed to be checked. And then I met another person who was like, look, you could do it in qbo. You can actually see it firsthand. Blah, blah, blah. I handled compliance work. And okay, so I leveled up in that way. Then I met another person who I'm currently with, and he's the one that recommended the wisp. So, like, I'm stuck with him for life because it like changed my life because of that one thing. But yeah, he not only does taxes compliance work, but also does the advisory side of things. So when he calls me up and says, hey, there's this opportunity, it costs X and you're going to save Y in taxes and it's something way outside the scope of what I've learned or you know those TikTok experts that are like, oh yeah, make an LLC and write off your whole life, like that's legal. And it's like, it's not. But, but like, you know, he brings to me opportunities that are very specific to me and understands me. And you know, with the acquisition, like, he played a vital role in it and you know, he made, objectively speaking, a lot of money from the value that he provided not only in the past, but when these conversations came up. And he's also willing to say, this is not my area of expertise. I'm going to refer you to someone, even though we are both accountants.

Yeah.

I'm going to refer you to someone that specializes in this exact thing to make sure that you get taken care of. So I don't look at it like, well, you don't know how to do this. I'm leaving. It's really like becoming that trusted advisor and for how much he's legally saved me. And I mean, I'm, I'm a tech guy, so like, I don't have a lens to be like, you're wrong.

Right, right.

Like I look into it and it's like, yeah, you're right, it does apply.

And it sounds like this is pretty the right, like ladder up. Right. You started off with kind of like annual taxes into like compliance level, you know, that QBO thing into advisory, like, and that's the direction. As you grow as a business, your needs change and the more sophisticated your business is, the more you can value because there's more value to be created from someone who has a bit more ability to give advice, not just do, just do the task type work. And so, yeah, that's, that's great to hear. If, if someone was going to niche into the IT space and you were going to say, all right, go out and create a free piece of content for IT MSP companies. Do you have a, do you have something in mind that you're like, this is, this is what those folks should be making.

Yeah. If an accounting firm, like, if they called it an MSP right there, you've you've weeded yourself into, like, the 1%, if you know what an MSP is and use that word. So if. If an accounting Firm said, Here's 20 ways and right. Like, everything. If I've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. But like, here's a PDF on how to save a hundred thousand dollars in taxes by changing the way you categorize your mrr. Some random. Like, it doesn't exist. Probably someone's got to like, message me afterwards.

Like, it doesn't exist.

Here's how you do it. Buy my services. But. But like, something that's very, very, very specific tells me that you understand who we are, speak our language. They said something like, did you know if you use this as your rmm, then you could accomplish that? And it's like, you know that you know that word. No one knows that word in our space. So, like, you know, just like that Italy example, like saying words that we know that I assume nobody else does, they're like, oh, what do you use for EDR? Oh, Hunter's cool. I have another client, uses CrowdStrike. And it's like, what that sentence is not one I'd ever think my accountant would say. Like, I'm curious. Like, yeah, you. You have my attention. Yep, Go on.

Yeah, that's a. That's. That's. Yeah. Interesting insight. I think that, yeah, we all have those trigger words that you. That you understand. Like, I'm sure it's the same for you, like, when you're able to talk about specific, like practice management software or you understand. Well, also, like laws. Right. When you understand the legal side of technology compliance for accounting firms, you're. You're saying things that it wouldn't make sense to a marketing agency, but to an accounting firm, it's like water in the desert. Right? Like, that's. Yeah, it's the thing that you're just. Just very thirsty for.

Or like, if. I mean, this is obvious. Such a bad example. But like, CPA in the marketing world means a lot different than CPA in the accounting world.

Yeah, you gotta make sure you use it right.

Yeah, like, I mean, it's a pretty obvious one. But like, you said, like, okay, what's your cpa? It's like, no, his name's Roland. Who is your cpa? It's like, different.

Yeah. Different things. Well, Andrew, thank you. This has been. This has been great. Glad, Glad you could come on the show. I love this conversation. Where. Where can people find you? Is there anything you'd like to point out listeners too that. I mean, you work with the guys.

Yeah. I mean, you could, you could connect, connect with me on LinkedIn. Andrew Lacis l A S S I S E and if you want to see in action how we do the wisp template, if you go to tech4accountants.net so it's tech the number4accountants.net and under Solutions there's free IRS WISP template. Pop it in there and you could see, you know, like Russell Brunson calls it, funnel hacking. Like, see exactly what we do and mirror it to something that, you know, your ideal client could utilize. And it doesn't have to be niched. It could be whatever you deem it, but just make sure that they actually want it.

Yeah. Very good. All right, thanks, Andrew. We will leave it there.

All right, well, thanks for having me. It was great.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Marketing for Accounting Firms podcast. If you liked this conversation and found it valuable, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's really good for the algorithm and it helps other firm owners find this show. You can subscribe to our weekly Marketing for Accounting firms newsletter@marketingforaccountingfirms.com you can connect with me, Matt Banker, on LinkedIn or Twitter. We hope you tune in next time for another episode of Marketing for Accounting Firm.