The Intersection of Marketing and Recruiting

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We're here to have a conversation about where marketing and recruiting overlap and when it comes to accounting firms, how, how they should think about attracting great talents and how it's part of their marketing project as well. And here talking talk with me is Ryan Teen. How's it going, Rya?

Going pretty well, Cannot complain.

So maybe start give us a little background of what you do and how you work with firm owners.

Yeah, I'll go back even a little bit further than that. Just kind of connect my story with what I do now. Yeah, I'm a recruitment firm owner who specializes in helping CPA firms find the talent they need. Kind of a bit of a winding path, but I'm actually a degreed accountant. I'm a cpa, worked in public accounting for a time, several other industry positions before finding my way about five years ago into recruitment. So I've seen a big need where I guess probably the core idea I had going into recruitment was how to help people hire better. I saw that that's not done really well when I got to start hiring people and wanted to see if I could help. And so I'm doing that through my recruitment. Pretty strong on the consultative approach rather than just a transactional recruitment operation. But anyway, that's a little bit what I do.

Yeah, that's great. So we're in 2022. We've gone through kind of this pandemic period. Some things have changed. There's a lot of work for accounting firms over the last couple years, just with all the taxes and tax law changes and things like that. Ppp. I know it's been busy for them, but it's a changing. It's a changing market and really like, work has changed a ton in that time. So I'd be interested to hear what, what are your thoughts on sort of the state of hiring for CPA accounting firms and what are the big challenges that you're hearing from firm owners right now?

Sure, yeah. So I think a lot of the terms everyone has heard will probably connect pretty well. Great resignation, things like that. I think everybody is. This is not particular to the accounting firm industry, but a lot of industries are dealing with this talent shortage. And I don't have any magic answers about what kind of has resulted in that. But there's just, I hear both from firm owners, they have more business than they know what to do with and they don't have. They can't find the people to be able to do the business. So that's probably the common response I get now. That covers a Variety of people from those who are just used to posting a job ad and getting responses, and now they're not seeing any responses to those job ads, to others who've tried other things, working with recruiters or being a little more proactive in how they go about their recruitment efforts. But yeah, by and large, it's really this talent short market that really has changed a number of things. The way potential hiring managers need to be able to interact with candidates in the market that we have.

Yeah, I've been hearing. I've been hearing those same sorts of things. It's they from the marketing side. Sometimes I'll hear from firm owners who say, yeah, we don't, we don't really want to invest in marketing right now because we couldn't handle more business. We were having such a hard time hiring. And especially, I don't know if it was just this last season, but this last season was especially difficult for a lot of them. And they're thinking, how can I set up my team team better first in order to then move into marketing in a growth state? So a lot of them are thinking at least, or maybe this is where the conversation with them goes when I talk with them, is that their marketing has sort of two purposes. It's both to attract new business, but it's also to attract good talent. Or they feel like they need to get their message and their company out into the world in a way through marketing to try to get better candidates. And you mentioned the days of just posting a job online and then getting a bunch of applicants that you can pick your favorite and offer a job to. That's not really how it works anymore. And I don't know if this is maybe related to that, but in a remote work world, it's easier than ever probably to shift jobs because you're not limited to your own geography. You're looking at things all over the country. And at the same time, hypothetically, it could be easier to attract good talent because you have a much bigger pool. But what are your thoughts on that idea of marketing having a place when it comes to recruiting and where? Maybe the way I'd frame the question is what are the clients that you're working with? The CPA firms, What do the ones who are doing it well look like? What are they doing to communicate who they are? What sorts of things are they putting out into the world to attract good talent?

Yeah, you touched on a lot of good things there. I think probably the place I would start with that is the idea of what we're doing. So we'll take the example of CPA firms. You're dealing with a handful of types of roles in a CPA firm. I'll paint with a broad brush. I know there's more detail in some of these roles, but like bookkeeper or staff accountant, you know, tax preparer and then manager level functions for both accounting services, tax services. If, if it's a larger firm that has an audit group, you have all the same things. And from firm to firm, there's going to be some minor differences in technology, maybe some minor process differences, but the result at the end of the day is that the work is the same. So when you're, you got to put the candidate mindset on like they're not going to change their job substantially, moving from one firm to another. And most of the firms I work with public accounting is different. They want people with that experience. So I'm going to put that as kind of a caveat there. This is. You're looking for people who have the exact same experience. So what then is there for somebody to get excited about and we can talk about. Let me know which ones you want to go into. But you know, everybody knows compensation, so I'm not going to harp on compensation, but obviously that can get people's attention if you're going to raise the compensation. But I think, you know, when I listen to candidates talk, there's an awareness that things are going on in the market with compensation. And so that's real. But you also hear other things about, you know, you mentioned earlier, remote work, you know, coming in just with the changes in the market. It's changed a lot of things. And you know, I see, for instance, a lot of people who have done the remote thing and it's pretty polarizing. They either love it or they hate it. I see. I've seen both of those things happen. So when you kind of pull back a little bit of the layer under that and you say, well, what's the element that people are really looking for? And I would pin that one down on like combination of like flexibility and autonomy. Like, you know, so, you know, I hear from people, we can't pay the salaries, we can't raise that lever on, you know, making, making greater pay. Well, flexibility and autonomy are free. And to someone who's in a role where they lack that, that becomes a marketable trait to say, hey, you can come work at our firm. We're gonna trust you to be a professional. We'll expect you to get the job done, but you can do it kind of as you need to do it. And I've worked with some firms that do some pretty interesting things around that. So yeah, there's a lot going on there for sure.

I think a lot of firm owners, they, they'll talk about how the thing that really makes them different is their people. And I think when they say that like great people culture ends up being a part of that, what would you say in terms of like creating just when it comes to a good, good culture, good team, is that, is that a piece of the puzzle in terms of attracting good talent? Yeah.

I mean nobody wants to spend 40 hours a week or more that everybody here's like, oh, I spend more time at work than I do with my instance or family at home, you know, waking hours. So, you know, nobody wants to have that as a, you know, negative thing in their life. So that is important. I'll put a little bit of a different spin on it from a recruitment perspective because candidates outside looking in, they don't have a whole lot of context to be able to say, am I going to have my new best friend at this new place? Okay, they're not going to be able to do that. So they'll use kind of a proxy of what kind of interaction did I have with people in the interview and what do I see? Like for instance, do they have a social media account? I think a lot of the clients I work with do that. They have like maybe a quarterly staff event and they put it up on their social media. It's probably, you know, if you're sitting in there, it's probably a little cheesy. Hey, we're at the restaurant. Can we take the picture for social. But that, it's a small thing, but that's where it can pay dividends to attract people who are missing community, you know, in their workplace. So yeah, another great one we're talking a lot about.

And this is, this is kind of where it goes, right? So first you have to be different, right? You have to offer something that is attractive. Part of that is how you, how you build your business. It's the experience of the interview process. It's their interactions with people as they're, as they're looking into your firm. It's not that it's completely flipped, but there's a, there's a two way conversation going on here. You know, do you want this person to work for you? And also they're wondering do I want to work, you know, at this, at this particular firm? Now the next, the next piece of that is you can be different. You could be the best place to work. You could have a really competitive compensation package that gives flexibility and autonomy and. And a lot of candidates might not know that. They might not be able to tell that. And so you're trying to stand out from the crowd, from all these other firms that are, you know, like you said, the job is not that different, firm to firm. And that's definitely not. Even if it is, you know, those kind of edge cases or the small changes between one job and another, those are not the things that become obvious usually in the job search process and maybe aren't. It's hard for a candidate to say, well, I want this specific difference in my next job. They're looking at things like compensation, flexibility as probably the higher priorities. So my question, I guess, is what does it look like in your mind for a firm to effectively start to communicate the things that are different? Or let's say, if they have put together a good offer, a good job, how do you get it out there?

Yeah, yeah, there's that. Maybe that might be a little tough to answer in some regard. I think of it like I'm trying to put myself in your place, actually. But there's. I think you have probably like a customer journey in mind when you're thinking of, like, how to build, you know, marketing collateral for a firm. In my world, that's like the candidate journey. So thinking about every touch point with the candidate. So whether you're relying on a job ad to get an initial awareness out there, from that point forward, where are they going to go? Well, most people are going to do their due diligence and pull up your website. So that's kind of like at a minimum level, you got to have something here, you know, to be able to communicate who we are, what we're about, what are the things we're doing, what's it like to work here? You know, there's some expected things. I think most people, if they go to a website, they're going to expect an About Us and a careers page. Well, what does your careers page have on it? Is it just like, hey, send us your resume, or does it describe, you know, your values and, you know, what are those different things you are doing compared to XYZ firm down the street, so. Or across the country, as we mentioned earlier, you're now, you're now competing with everybody. So. Yeah, so I think those are. You have to have that in mind the whole time. And it. You can't be so focused on evaluating them for fit being the candidate that you forget that at every single point you actually are competing for that candidate. So you have to be selling to that candidate to say this is actually the place that can advance your career. You know, whatever message you figure out is going to be the most relevant. And I think some of that will change over time. I would say this hasn't been a big thing that I've heard, but for instance, you know, a message that could be pretty important coming up here real soon. I've heard so many people talk about, oh, there might be a recession in the next year or something like that. Well, I've heard it a little bit isolated, but I've heard a couple candidates say, don't want to make a move right now because I don't want to be the last one in and first one out. So take that kind of current undercurrent that's going on. And how do you convey what is counter to that? Well, it's growth. We're a growing firm. We're adding people, we're hiring, you know, stable. We've been around a long time. So, yeah, customizing that message, but. But getting it out at every point that you can, for sure.

Yeah. You mentioned the website. You know, obviously those, Those two pages, the. The about page and the careers page. I see a lot of websites that get those wrong or underdevelop those pages. Most people don't realize the about page is often the second most visited page on a website. People go there. And the way I think about it is people go, they're at the homepage and they want to find out, what do you do? Can you solve my problem? You know, is this going to be a good solution for me? But then they go to the about page because they want to know about the people behind the company. This is true for your clients, and it's especially true for a candidate. They're going to go, and they want to know who's the owner, who's the team, what can I get? What can I understand about them? I often recommend actually on an about page, have an owner write almost like a from the heart letter to their client base and say, this is why I'm in this business. This is what I love about it. This is why I care about it as a way to really share the humanness behind the company. And accounting firms, there's stereotypes, or the general public thinks of them as pencil pushers, math guys with calculators. But most of the firm owners I know really are pretty passionate about helping the businesses and the people that they work with, but it's not shown very well in a lot of cases through their website. Another place I think to really consider is your company page. LinkedIn company page. And one thing I'll say from a marketing perspective, a, the most active people on LinkedIn are the ones looking for jobs. The second most are probably the ones trying to hire. But those company pages are often really underdeveloped and candidates are always going to go. That's probably their first stop. And in fact, not many of your customers are probably stopping at your LinkedIn page. But I bet a lot of the candidates are because they're active on LinkedIn. So that would be another place to take a look at and just think through, you know, what is that, what is that candidate journey at each step of the way and what are you communicating about your company to not just to a prospect who could be a client, but also to a candidate. The, maybe the last. This is just me getting on kind of my marketing soapbox. But when you're not doing a good job of communicating what's great about your company and you don't, you, you don't know what you're missing out on either, because every one of these steps, you know, this idea of I'm going to post a job and I'm going to get a bunch of candidates and I'm going to evaluate and pick the best one. Well, you might not even have the best ones in that candidate pool because they've opted out earlier in the process because of their interaction with your website, with your social media, with your LinkedIn company page. And so you don't even have an opportunity to find out, you know, if you can again, you know, if you're the best place to work in the country. But they don't know that because, because of the, the stuff that they've seen before having a conversation, you could be really missing out on, on the best candidates. So it's more of a pull strategy instead of, I don't know, like a hunting, you know, going out and getting them.

Yeah, a little bit on that one. Like there's a, there's an attraction element to it and you kind of have to balance this with. You know, most people buy into the idea that diversity is actually a business strength sometimes. But in terms of like the recruitment thing you mentioned earlier, the about page stories, people connect with stories. And when we talk about stories, we're going to talk about things that are not necessarily related to the debits and credits, you know, of accounting. And so, you know, whatever your thing Is as a, as an organization. Maybe it's those fun team activities. Maybe it's like some social cause in your area you like to do like once a year you do a habitat build day with your whole staff or participate in a soup kitchen or you know, if that's big and important for you. Well that's big and important for certain candidates. And so you know, not, not, not using them per se, but getting that story out there creates attraction and a little bit of a self select in, in those, those things. So I, I have been advocate advocating a ton with my clients. Like we want to make a very strong impression on people so that we have really strong opt ins to the hiring process and very clear opt outs. Like I see what you're saying and it is very much not what I'm interested in. I'm not even going to start. That's actually a win when you figure that out. Be it compensation, culture, fit, skills, location, you can go on down the list. Yeah.

In our world we talk a lot about having a clear niche for a business. You know, that can be true for accounting firms. Usually they have a couple strong verticals, you know, in, in a certain industry and it's easier to market into the same vertical, the same, you know, niche again and again. Whereas if you're just broadly positioned, you're sort of fine for everyone, but you're not great for anyone either.

Right.

You don't have that's that kind of clear, clear opt in, opt out option. It's just hard for people to know is this, is this a clear. And so they go away from it feeling just a little meh. It's fine, it seems good, but they don't know. Should I be really excited about this or do I know that this is a wrong fit? I don't know. Do you have any way to maybe expand upon some examples of what that might look like in practice? That idea of that strong first impression so that you can get the strong. I'm kind of interested in the strong opt out. What are the sorts of things that you might, you might do to help make sure that you're, you're attracting the right ones, but especially that you're not attracting ones that you know aren't a good fit.

Yeah. So I think the thing most people can connect with is you know, the idea of posting a job and you know, trying to recruit that way. So let, let's just put that context on it. So you don't haven't hired a recruiter, you're not doing anything else. You're you're just trying to market your opportunity for the job and get people interested. Well, first, wrong thing I see people do is they post a job description for a job ad. And it's not a big flip for people to do it, but like you actually have to be selling that. And a job ad is very different than a job description. Most people, they're going to identify a lot about the job by just simply the title. So they're already there. So then those first few lines of your job ad, what are you, what should you be talking about? Is it that you got, you do tax returns really well and as a firm and you do bookkeeping really well and whatever? No, everybody kind of knows that's what you do. They'll probably assume some of that. So how do you start that attraction process right there or, you know, that strong opt out. So, you know, it is kind of funny to understand a little bit of the breadth that you have when you start working with these firm owners in how they approach culture and how they work and all those things. So on the, maybe the, a little bit crazy is the wrong word, but just unexpected realm, you know, okay, maybe there's a CPA firm that they actually have a beer fridge and they enjoy getting together for or they do remote work, so they do a virtual happy hour or something like that. Well, work that into your story. You don't have to say, we do the happy hour. You can say, well, you know, when we get together for our regular meetings, we enjoy hanging out and having a beer or whatever. That kind of extreme example. But that's going to attract the person that says, I don't really want a stuffy CPA firm environment. I'm looking for something different, something that's a little more chill and oh, okay. So I, that, that's an option for me. Consequently, if you're the buttoned up, you know, accountant who just loves to be in the numbers, you want to have the consistency, the reliability and just know everything's going to be the same all the time. You're probably going to look at that and you're going to say, yeah, that's, you know, awesome that some people do that. But that is not for me. I'm not even going to waste my time to apply because I'm not going to be comfortable in that environment. Yeah, so that's just, it's kind of.

A silly example, but I think that that's helpful. And you know, I think around the ideas of, I think we're moving into a place where remote Work could be an attraction. But hey, we're an in office company. You get to be around your coworkers every day. That's going to be a clear opt in for some people as well.

I try to tell people so much. I feel like everybody thinks there's a right or wrong answer on any of those things, but particularly around remote work. So I try to reframe that discussion to them that it's like you mentioned the concept of your candidate pool earlier. Every requirement you put on the position shrinks your pool from every accountant out there to a smaller group of those. So if you take location off, your pool expands immensely. But it's not wrong to say, you know what? We are a local in person firm that is going to attract somebody who says, I've done the work from home thing and I got to get out of my house. I do not want that. That's going to attract them and it's going to repel the person that's like, nope, I'm never going back to an office again because I love the flexibility and I'm not even going to apply there. So yeah, it's, it's, it's not a right or wrong. I think people do have to make that conscious decision rather than just going along with it and never revisiting it and thinking about it. But yeah, real strong attraction repelling element we've seen.

It's kind of a counterintuitive idea, but the tendency is to believe the best option. For me, this is in marketing in general and I think I'm hearing that it's true when it comes to recruiting as well. The intuitive thing is if I just expand my pool as big as possible, I'll get the best candidates because I'll get the most candidates. And so I want to have this really broad, you know, job description that anyone could apply for. But the reality is, and the counterintuitive truth is the hard part with the Internet, if you're, if there's digital marketing or job posting in there, the hard part is not having, you know, potential access to tons of people. It's sorting through the noise both for a candidate or for a higher, you know, person hiring and so narrowing down to be really clear about who you are, what this job is, you know, what the benefits are. And that idea of helping people opt in and opt out actually can lead to more and better candidates, but it doesn't. That's not necessarily the intuitive path or understanding of hiring.

Yeah, yeah, there's, it's kind of like anybody starting out in business and the generalist versus specialist, you're like, I don't want to have to say no to something that could be business. And you just waste your time because it's actually not the great fit for you. Same thing in hiring. Oh, it's a crazy market. I've got to hire the first person that comes along without really making sure that you've got that strong, attractive element that says, yeah, this actually has a good chance of success. Yeah, you're 100% right.

So we've been talking, I think, really kind of in the context of a firm owner who's, who's putting out job posting. They're doing the hiring, the interview and all of that. Tell me a little bit more about your process as a recruiter. How are you finding good candidates and how are you matching them with the right fit? Tell me if I'm wrong. My assumption is that there's plenty of firms that need recruiting help and there's more limited number of, of ideal candidates. Or is it, or is it just, is there a lot of candidates and it's just about sorting and finding the right fit? I don't know, maybe just give me.

I'll. I can say this from a perspective of I'm networked with a number of other recruiters who have different niche specialties, some of which have helped me at times. And I get the question of like, why in the world would you continue in that business? It's like so, so hard to get people to move public to public. Like, that's crazy. So we, we are in a particularly challenged industry. The, the thing, the benefit you get like, so with a recruitment provider, assuming you found a good one is, you know, you post a job ad, the pool that you're speaking to with that is people who are actively engaged and that's some very small percentage of the market. The people who are actively engaged in looking on job boards at the time you post your job and have it running for two to four weeks or.

Six weeks, whatever sector, very small section.

So what, what you get with recruitment in theory is if you, if you hire a recruiter is we're identifying the list of all ideal candidates out there and we don't know whether firmly entrenched where they are or they're loosely. Or maybe they're actually agitated. They just haven't made that move to becoming active on the job market, plus the ones who are active. So we make that market map for our clients and say, who are all the candidates at all the firms? Plus if there's Any other backgrounds that may be a fit. And then we have a systematic marketing process to get that message out for our clients. And so we do, you know, I think you kind of asked us a little bit earlier, but like, you know, a good client for me is somebody who can articulate where those differences are and give me some ammunition to market. Because again, it doesn't do me any good to say, hey, you get to go here and do a 1040 or a 1065 or any of the other tax forms. A lot of people can do that. So what are those things that can break through the noise and, you know, get people's attention? So in terms of. You asked about the fit, like, how are we helping with fit? Our particular. I can't talk to any other recruiter processes on this. We start with candidates on a. Hey, help us understand a little bit where you're at in your career right now. And then let's take any specific job off the table. What does ideal look like for you? So that we can we just ask a lot of okay, and what else? And what else? Until people kind of run through all of those things to say what's important for them, what do they have to have? What are the nice to haves and really understand where they're coming from. Any motivations that they need to make sure they don't have present in their next opportunity. And then we make the matches and say, well, actually that is a really good fit for this. And then we tend to present our opportunities in the same order that they've recited those, you know, their important things for their next position. And so we try to do that as much as we can without any kind of leading like, hey, are you looking for a job that will pay you more money? You know, you know that we just say, hey, what's ideal look like for you? And yeah, and then we try to present our clients opportunities in the. The best light possible and then shepherd them through the process to kind of keep the. You're introducing two new. Two people who don't know each other at all. So, you know, trying to make sure there's good communication throughout is a pretty big part of our job.

I'm in the marketing world, obviously, and our company has a very narrow niche where we work primarily with accounting firms and related businesses. You know, payroll companies, sometimes insurance, that kind of stuff. Get inquiries. People that are not a good fit for our. For our services, they're not not the right industry. And so I'm often in a situation where I'm looking for A referral. And when I go through my list, I know a ton of marketers who are very talented. I know a lot of people who are, you know, email marketers or copywriters in a general sense. And it's really hard for me to pick like, oh, why would I send this person to this guy or that gal or whoever. But if I know, you know, hey, it's a non profit that comes in and I know so and so works specifically with non profits, it's much easier for me to put, to refer over to a specific company, someone who has an articulated niche or specialty or something about them that I know is a good fit for my candidate. And it sounds like that's kind of the same thing if you have a lot of different accounting firms that are just generalists. It's hard to know sometimes when you have a candidate who's interested in moving, how to know if they're, if they're the right fit for a different place, if they haven't done that foundational work of articulating and thinking through what is important to us, what is different. And so, you know, whether you use a recruiter or you post the job yourself, that first piece of really understanding, from my perspective, it's, you know, your messaging, it's the who's your target audience, the, all that kind of foundational stuff. It's going to help you whether someone hires someone like, like Ryan to, you know, go out and recruit for them or if you go a job posting route and you're going to do the interviews and all that yourself, you still need that initial piece.

Yeah, there's a little bit. That's a funny thing to me. But there's a difference for people when they're interacting with a recruiter versus the hiring manager. It's far more performative in the hiring manager context. So I think there is a limit to, you know, or there's a unique value of using a recruiter in that context because we do get people that say, well, I wouldn't say this to any like to, to a hiring manager, but you know, this is what's going on. And so we do get a lot of that context. We have people come to us on the candidate side that hit the whole spectrum from I know exactly what I'm looking for and I've thought through all this stuff that we've just been talking about to. I just, I've never had a chance to pick my head up and really think about it. So we end up coaching them through to try to make sure before we get them in front of a client that, hey, they've actually thought through what is important to them and that this is actually a good match because if they haven't, they make a move and they realize they think they're going to get something in that move that they don't get and then they make another move shortly thereafter. And I don't have any clients that like that when that happens, you know, within six months or a year or anything like that.

So, yeah, we're big, we're a big fan of the, the idea of, as a business, you serve the role of, of the guide for your customers. And in your role, you're, you're kind of playing the dual guide. You're, you're the in between person where you're both guiding candidates and, and guiding firm owners trying to make sure that there's a good match and there's sometimes it sounds like work to be done in both directions, but hopefully you kind of help smooth, smooth those things out to make sure that when, when there is a connection that it is a really positive one for everyone. I know that, you know, it's a huge, it's a huge bummer to hire someone and, and then have them move on six months later or because it's a bad fit. So you don't want to have that, that sort of risk. Well, this has been a great conversation. Is there any, any kind of closing thoughts or things that maybe we didn't hit on that you think are super important right now, just around hiring and recruiting that agency firm owners should be thinking about?

Yeah, I mean, just the, even the subject of this, I think is just probably the most important thing. It's just realizing you kind of do have to have a mindset shift from what was five years ago or, you know, and a lot of the firm owners that you and I work with, they've been in the business a long time, so, and they've experienced a different market than it currently is and then it looks to continue for the foreseeable future. So, you know, it's hard to make that mindset shift when you've experienced one thing for so long. It can be a bit of a challenge. So just the shift from like, I'm just going to post a job and have plenty of qualified people that are going to be thankful for me to offer them an opportunity. You really have to be marketing and selling your opportunity for scarce talent to be able to attract and win in the marketplace. So.

Yeah, yeah, well, and I mean, things could change again, but I think that the way I think the wrong mindset would be to think, hey, we went through this weird time of COVID and then things are going to go back to normal. And my perspective is really that the experience going through the pandemic has accelerated trends, but it wasn't a different thing. It was we're still moving in this direction. This idea of marketing yourself is going to continue to be an important thing. And part of that is just that it's online and so much of our interaction is there. You just have access to more of everything. And so, you know, you're competing against more, you know, other firms. You're, you're, the candidates are trying to sort through a lot of noise. And, and that's, that's continuing to be a challenge. I hope that things get a little bit better and easier for firm owners just in hiring in general, because I, I know that has been kind of an acute challenge over the last last couple years, but. Well, Ryan, thanks again. This is a great conversation and yeah, we should talk again sometime soon.

Absolutely. Really, really enjoyed it for sure. Appreciate you having me on and asking some great questions. So glad to do it again sometime.

This podcast, marketing for accounting firms is brought to you by Benchmark Growth Marketing. We're a marketing agency. It helps account accounting firms get more calls booked through their website. You can find us@benchmarkgrowthmarketing.com Connect with me, Matt Banker on LinkedIn.