From Toddlers to Tuition: The Parenting Rollercoaster

Hi, I'm Matthew Greger.

And I'm Nancy Greger.

We have this podcast called We Should Probably Edit This.

But we won't. Our podcast is about us, our relationship, our 37 years of being married, raising 3 children.

And hopefully we can share something that would be inspiring, honest, truthful, as our tagline says, unfiltered, unscripted, and unapologetically us.

There you go.

We should probably edit this.

But we won't.

Okay, now that I hit the record button, we can start all over again.

We've only been talking for like 20 minutes before you realized you weren't recording.

Something like that. Unfortunately, we can't get that to actually share, so—

So it's a do-over.

So it's a do-over. So in this episode, we're going to talk about kids, you know, some of the different stages that we've gone through, what it's like to be a parent, what it's like to raise kids, you know, what we've learned from them and what we continue to learn from each other.

Yeah.

So first they started out kind of, kind of small, you know. We had— when you have that first one, you just don't know what to do because there's no real manual for that first baby that comes out.

No, but there's some basic— just your basic instincts on what you needed to do. Like, you need to feed them, you need to change their diapers, you need to get them clothes, you need to protect them. They're very, very fragile humans when they first come out. So it's, it's a really fierce protection. I think that, you know, when they talk about, um, a mother's commitment or a, a mother's like fierce to protect her young, and that's in any animal category, right? Lions, monkeys, gorillas, moms take the role of sheer protection. And that's really very instinctual, I think, of the way I first looked at it when I had my first one, when Benjamin was born. That was my responsibility. Like, nobody was going to touch that baby. And I remember, I remember walking in when he was— he must— he was still under 6 months. He was a baby. And we had a baby wagon, not like what they have today. We lived in the city. Okay, but our, our, my stroller was like Emmy Junga, the Emmy Junga. So it's a Swedish stroller, very old and traditional, metal base, big rubber wheels, you know, and, and the bassinet part. And I remember having to go on them. I don't know what I had to go do, but I had to go outside, um, and I had to take Benjamin with me.

So outside in New York City with a newborn baby?

I talk about being fiercely protected. So I put them in, I put him in his bassinet. He was wrapped up like a mummy. There was no movement of arms because it was cold. And, um, the, the, the, the stroller came with this device where you kind of like put it over the bassinet and then it clipped up onto the headpiece. And I remember walking in, I think I was, must have been at a bank or something, and somebody wanted to see my baby and they literally put their head all the way around and try to stick their head in it. And then I remember them saying, wow, he's— they couldn't tell if it was a boy or a girl, so they automatically assumed it's a boy. I don't know why, but she says, wow, you can't even see him. And I'm like, I don't need you to see, I don't need you to go anywhere near him. Because I was— he was new, he was brand new. So it wasn't something that I wanted anyone to touch or anybody to come near. So a mom's instinct, I think, is to be fiercely protected. And I, I protected those children like a hawk if you came too close. And I will say on a side note, when my first granddaughter was born, Hadley, the kids, my son and my daughter-in-law, lived with us for a little bit. Um, so we had gone to a restaurant, and it was Max's Restaurant in, in— it's Max, not there anymore, uh, in Danbury. And I remember Hadley was— she was still a baby, but, um, she was sitting up type of deal, and and this, the waitress came over and she was just like talking up a storm to Hadley to, to try to get Hadley to, you know, like, I don't know, acknowledge her some way or something. And she was sitting with me and not really knowing it, but, and I really, I don't think I knew it until my children made a point of saying something, but I had grabbed her and moved her closer into me and was every time the woman would step closer, I would move further back. And I had Hadley, and she left, and Benjamin and Shelby looked at each other, and then I was like, what's going on? Did I miss something? And it was like, Mom, you just gave that woman such a face of wanting to protect that baby.

I've had that face several times in my life. I'll tell you that. But anywho, anywho, so I mean, so there was the newborns phase. Newborn phase.

Yeah.

With it, you know, I was working a lot, so I always got the, the, um, you were working a lot.

You were Monday through Friday. That was your job.

Well, that's what I mean. Yeah. But I mean, I was working while you were working with the baby and, and later on the children. But, you know, I remember having the feeding time and having to get up and with the bottle.

It was a late— one late night. Like, the feeding was one time at night when Benjamin would get up. We nursed all of our children, but there was always going to be one time—

you nursed all of the children—

but there was one time that you—

let's get that clear—

you would take a late night shift, and that would be the bottle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There would be a— give you a break on on that end. But, um, but my favorite time was the kids, as you know. I'm, I'm the one that got to horse around with them more as they get in, as they got older. And, and we would always jump on the bed and, you know, no more, no more monkeys jumping on the bed. One fell off and dumped his head. Yep, yep. So that's what we would do. And I would throw, uh, would throw them around on the bed. Well, not really throw them around, but we would play different games and stuff there. So it was, it was you know, fun times, um, as they're growing up and they— and you're telling them stories, you're reading books to them at night. There's— so there's different stages. I, I would call that the, the infant, or actually the toddler stage. Toddler till they start going to like first grade, you know, you're really, um, kindergarten, really involved with them. Then they start to become more independent as they finish elementary school and move into middle school. Elementary school time was good.

Elementary school, they're still young, you could still influence them.

Um, middle school, they taught us patience too, I think.

I, I never learned that.

No, you, you still don't have patience.

I don't learn that. But, but you need to tell them of the one story where your children gave you up because—

We've had that story already.

No, we didn't.

We told the story about the basket. Yes, we did.

We did.

And it was over there. Yes. I'm not going to repeat that story, although I'm the one that threw the basket and they told on me and then I had to confess.

They told to protect themselves. Yes.

So they wouldn't get in trouble for it. So that they would know that dad did it.

Dad did it.

Yeah.

So. So yeah, like a hot potato.

So what else, what else during the, the younger years? I mean, we took a couple vacations.

We did, but we talked about that. For the most part, it was, it was a, a time of them going, ex, you know, making friends, play. Play was a really big deal. They liked to play all the time with friends and have friends over. We had epic birthday parties. I mean, we did epic birthday parties. We did.

We made our— we made slime.

We made slime one year.

I'm sure the parents loved us for that one. That's all you can say.

We had a magician another year. That didn't— some people didn't like that. Some kids—

it was the clown.

Yeah.

Oh yes, it was the cousin that came dressed up as a clown.

Yeah, the clown wasn't— that clown wasn't a big hit. Um, but we did epic birthday parties. I, I must admit you know, people would, would come to the birthday. They were always themed. They always had some sense of, okay, this is what we were going to do. And we would always have some type of activity.

Do you, do you think with each child it got easier, or, or did you let up your guard more as they— like, like with the second and especially the third?

Oh, you mean by the time Noah came around? Yeah, I'd probably say that I kind of realized that the best thing to do is if there was protruding blood coming out, then I would try to, you know, intervene in some way. But most of the time they were pretty much left to their own devices, kind of like, just go outside and play.

Yeah, well, at that time, I mean, we were living in a house in the suburbs, not in the city.

Right. You know, Benjamin was the city baby for 2 years. For 2 years. For 2 years he was the city.

So he went to the park and found the syringes in the sandbox, and we decided, I think it's time to move on.

It's time to— it's time to leave Manhattan, have a place where they can ride the—

ride their bikes and they can go outside with you not having to worry too much about them.

Yeah, yeah, I think that was the main—

for me, that was important because You always played outside. That's how I grew up, being outside.

I was a New York kid, so, you know, outsides are not the same.

Um, well, the outside for our kids was pretty good.

Yeah, I think so. I think so. I don't think— I don't remember there being too much drama when they were little. When we entered middle school, we had some drama, that was for sure.

We had some middle schools, a whole different stage of life. You know, it's like, yeah, I mean, not only are you like beginning to learn how to maneuver and sharing classes, but you're also trying to maneuver and figuring out how to re-communicate with friends and how to make new friends. And, and your body's going through series of changes that you have no idea what's going on with you. Yep.

You went from smelling cute to smelling like, what is that foul odor? And why haven't you bathed? Or my favorite was, I did take a shower. No, no, and you had to be very explicit. Did you use soap?

And washcloth.

Did you use the washcloth?

Especially if they've been outside in a— playing sports like, like football or something, and you've got mud all over you, and you come out of the shower and there's still that streak of mud still there. It's like, okay, You took that 5-second shower.

That wasn't a good one.

You put water on your body.

I think you got to do it again.

If the towel turns brown while you're drying off, that's a clue. That's a bad sign.

Bad sign. Bad sign. But those were— they had— I think that was when the children, if you have more than one, right? That's when they start to develop their own— the siblings. I think, who they can confide in, who they can't.

You mean within themselves?

Within themselves.

I mean, though, the bigger thing is, I mean, we had the oldest was 4 years older than the middle. Katie.

Yeah, and so— But Katie and Noah were only 14 months apart, so they had a very tighter relation. And by tight, I mean it could go either which way. You could be in total admiration of each other, and then you could be ready to kill each other. It was really just like—

Right, but they— night and day. They were together.

But they were together. They were together. Where the older brother was like, the older brother.

And I think the younger ones were more of a nuisance to him than anything else. Yeah. After you reached a certain age. Yeah.

And then, you know, not until now that they're adults that they— the difference in the age doesn't play too much of a role. However, life is still different. And where they're at is still different, just like you and me with our siblings.

So during— as in the life of kids growing up, do you have any advice for other parents?

Any advice? Remain united as mom and dad, even if that means you don't make a decision right away until you have a conversation. Amongst yourselves, away from, you know—

yeah, yeah, not with them around.

Think as best as you can because— and, and you're going to be doing a lot of things, and a lot of things are going to be juggling. So it's very important to try to make sure you notice things that are changing that may show you signs that they're not going in the right way, and work at addressing those as quickly as you can. Don't let it linger. Don't let it go too far.

Even with all the rules that we put in place, especially around the computer, I mean, it was just during the stage of computers and things.

Internet.

Yep.

Yeah.

You know, even though I put time limits on the computer and they had to have their own login.

Yep.

And they only were allotted so many times, they figured out ways around all that. Sometimes I didn't know about it, then I found out later.

Later.

But, you know, it's the world of the internet now. Now I think it's even much tougher for parents with the phones and the access to everything being online.

Yeah.

We were just starting to get that way, and it was definitely, definitely different than when we were kids.

That's for sure. It's always different, right? Every generation has something new that comes along. But what basically, what doesn't really change is you being a parent and you being aware of what your children are doing and who they're hanging out with. Um, that for me—

be involved, be involved, be involved with your kids.

I mean, I was lucky because I got to stay home and not— I didn't have to go to work, you know. So I was lucky. I was one of those moms.

We tried the nanny situation in the beginning, didn't we?

What, I did maybe 2 months with the nanny?

Um, it was a little longer.

But I, I do, I do know that I'm fortunate. I all— I know that there's lots of moms out there, lots of families that don't have a choice. They both have to go to work. They both have to make that commitment in order for, for you to make it financially, you know, paying rent and food and car and all that other stuff. So I get that. Um, but it was, it was a sacrifice even for me staying home. You know, we, we weren't vacationing every year. We weren't doing certain things. Um, you know, I had to be resourceful to get clothing on the children, and sometimes that meant I would go to consignment shops to look for things that I could, you know, afford to buy. But it's very important that you just play a role and not necessarily leave it for others. And by that I mean is it's not a school situation. Just because they go to school doesn't mean it's up to the teachers to do certain things with your child or to teach your child certain things. It's up to you to do that. And it's up to you to get involved with that school. And the earlier you get involved with the school, the better off it's going to be.

And that could be the PTO, which, which you were involved with, with that for a long time.

Or later on when they got into sports, we got involved with the sports, um, right, organization. And, and we devoted our time and we volunteered. And you know what that does? It expands your community on who's watching your kid. It expands the community to the point where all of a sudden, if something's going wrong or someone else notices something that maybe you didn't catch, they're going to come up to you and they're going to tell you, hey, you know, I'm noticing that, um, you know, your son's a little quiet, or do you know what's going on? Is there any issues? Or, I heard that this happened in school. Did you know about it?

Right.

Um, and all of a sudden that helps you because even a stay-at-home mom, you're not going to be around them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There are going to be moments where other people are going to be involved in your children's life, right?

And I mean, I think the most important thing And my point of view was, is that you do things as a family. And I think dinnertime is the most important thing as a family, that you, you guys all sit around the table and you have a meal together. And that doesn't mean TV's on too. It means you actually talk to each other. I mean, we had a thing that, you know, where each one of them had to tell us 3 things that they did that day. Yeah. and we went around the table and all 5 of us told us, told the 3 things that we did. Um, and that just kept the communication going. And, and for the longest time we did that, you know, we did it all the way until they left the house. Yeah. And then when they come visit, they still did it for a while.

They, they did. They knew when dinner was right.

So it wasn't like you, it was something you had to be home for dinner.

You had to be home.

You know, I mean, it made it a little bit more difficult when they got into high school. Later and maybe they had a job or something like that, but for the most time, for the most part, we had always had dinner together. It was later because, you know, sports ran later in that day. I mean, I think as they got into the driving age, that was a whole nother adventure that we got into.

But each thing that comes along, I think what we tried to do is we also tried to instill that you were part of the family. So, you know, when the kids got old enough, I would say once they hit the teenage years, they had to pick a night to cook. And you could cook whatever it is you wanted to cook, but you had to pick a night to cook. And nobody could complain, not even us. We couldn't complain about what it is you made. So whatever it was, that's what you did. But that was your contribution to your family for cooking. 'Cause I think by that time I had gone, I went back to work. And so getting home and being able to put dinner together by a certain time was a little bit more, a little bit more of a challenge. So I said, "Oh no, no, everybody's gotta learn to cook." Just like everybody ended up learning how to do their own laundry. Right. That was a big, a big moment.

When they got older, they had their own laundry day.

They had their own laundry day.

They could do laundry.

They could do laundry.

You better make sure you did your laundry during that day too.

Because if you didn't, then you couldn't cross over to the— because the other guy is going to be complaining about you taking over his laundry day. Or what they'd end up doing is you end up doing their laundry if you took their day. So, but I thought that was That was real important, um, that they did. And I can remember there was some— and by the way, if you, if you lived with— like, we've— we had friends of theirs that were going through some other family drama and lived with us, um, and we, we pretty much made them into the same— follow the same rules and same routines that we had, um. And, you know, now I look back, all three of my children know how to cook, and some of them cook really well, um, and they're the main cooks in their families, which, um, is great. But that's because that was something I think we really pushed on them and saying, you know, no, you got to make dinner.

Yeah. How about chores and cleaning? Keep cleaning up the house? Did—

I think the biggest—

what do you think is important with that?

Well, I learned just to close their door. I got tired of having them pick up things for themselves, so I got to the point where I would just close the door. If I didn't see it, I was fine. However, bathrooms were except for our bathroom, the other two bathrooms we had were what I would call public bathrooms. So anybody who came in could go into one of those two bathrooms, hence they had to wash it. Now I can tell you that my daughter and my son that are only 14 months apart, man oh man, were there fights over that bathroom cleaning because he would complain about her hair, she would complain about something else. So That was always a challenge. The oldest had his— had the bathroom downstairs, so he pretty much always kind of tried to keep that as clean as he could. But the bathrooms are open. Every one of them know how to mow the lawn, and they all had to mow the lawn each— I don't know, we did it every, every week or something like that. They all mowed the lawn at different stages, at different, at different stages. And I can, I can tell you That was just like one of those things that were like torturous, and my daughter hated mowing the lawn.

Well, she'd make designs in the lawn.

Yeah, she would just do whatever.

Along the way.

Along the way. But she had to mow the lawn. Everybody had to do that.

Well, I think the favorite part that they all loved was the firewood and having to stack wood or bring wood inside. But they all love to be warm. So they all had to participate in keeping the wood bin full. Full.

Ooh, that was a good one.

Yeah.

That was a good one. Oh my goodness.

I'm sure they still remember.

They do.

Stacking wood and bringing it inside.

And to this day, they will tell us that's the one thing they don't remember.

But they still enjoy fire.

They do. Well, we only have one real wood fireplace in here. The other one is gas.

Yeah, but no one but me brings it in and you.

Correct.

Now, you know. So it's like really in the other, in the other house it was our primary source of heat. It was still only one wood-burning stove, but it was a much larger one, and, and it, it was, it was hungry for, for fuel, which meant it had to—

we had to make sure that if it snowed real bad, there was a track that was definitely, um, um, set from the woodshed to the house. Yep, that you, you had the, the track was already, so you had to shovel the pathway Yeah, to the wood and back.

We ended up shoveling it for Ollie anyways.

Yeah, we had a dog, so we had to give him a path by which to go. But yeah, the wood was a good one. They hated doing that. I think they still have memories of like, eh, eh.

So I think the next stage in life was really when the first is leaving to go to college.

Yeah.

You know, that's a next big shock for you as parents. When you see your— I mean, there's— when they learn to drive, that's a huge shock because now you've got to like trust them, in them, that they're going to take this several thousand pound vehicle and they're, they're not going to hurt themselves or somebody else. But we got over that with not too many incidents.

No, because Benjamin was really— because he's 4 years older than his sister, he was— he really kind of set the tone, right?

With the exception of some, some tickets, um, Some speeding tickets and a few little fender benders. There wasn't any major incident.

No.

Then, but then when they went to, went to college, it was a definitely a, a change in us because now they're leaving your house and you just have to hope and pray that you made the right—

you've trained them, you've shown them the right—

you've given them what they need, the tools that you've given them, what they need to make the right decisions in their life. Moving forward when they leave the nest, when they leave home.

When they leave home.

Yeah, and I know several of them didn't make great decisions after they left, but that's part of growing up and experimenting and figuring things out on your own.

Some cost us more than others.

Yes, indeed. But I think that for us, it's hard. It's hard to see them go. At the same time, you want them to go, that's for sure. And you also don't want them to return. Not that they can't always return and you love them to death, but the whole goal as a parent is to set them up to be successful in the world out there and to make something on their own. Mm-hmm.

Figure it out.

And that's what getting them out of the house and into college and into that next stage And you know, if it's not college, it's that job, it's whatever it is. I mean, but for you and I, neither one of us had a degree, and we felt that it was important for our kids to have that college degree. And we were— we decided that we would do everything possible to make that happen, to get their 4-year degree. And all 3 of them have a 4-year degree.

Yeah.

So that's—

that was— it was a big sacrifice on the 2 of us to do it. We're still We're still sacrificing, we're still paying for that, uh, for that ability for them to, for them to do.

What did you, what did you feel as that, as they left?

Uh, obviously with Benjamin, uh, because he was the first one to leave, I was very, very nervous. I was very tense, and I really, I was, you know, I knew he was gonna go away. I knew his, where he was, he, and he didn't go far. Um, the first school that he ended up going to, um, he could have commuted, he could have commuted, but he— so he stayed there on campus, but he was only there a semester. He only made a semester and then he went down to Orlando. Yeah, because, because he realized he was in the wrong place. The atmosphere that he was in that school wasn't where he wanted to be.

And because he followed the girl there, followed the girl.

And what was most important was he didn't want to go away for 4 years. He didn't want to wait 4 years. He felt that there was a lot of time where there wasn't enough being done.

Well, that's one thing for sure that I will agree with you, that kids in college have way too much time.

Way too much time.

I mean, they could accelerate that 4-year degree in 2 years without a problem at all. I was always amazed at how much free time they had, even if they were taking a heavy caseload course load.

They still have lots of time.

And with Ben, he decided to go to really a 2-year—

an accelerated program.

He went for an accelerated program at Full Sail University, which I think was really good. He got his BA degree in 3 years.

It was good, but then in that particular instance, they didn't offer, you know, dorms, so we had to go down, make sure we got an apartment for him and it was furnished, and he had a car. Had a car, and he was able to manage. Though even from that point on, I don't think, with the exception of my daughter, my boys would go through money like it was raining. And if they had an allotment and they got that check on the first of the month, and you'd say, that's gotta last you all the way to the very end.

That was always a struggle with Benjamin.

And Noah, they both were.

They— well, the difference with Noah was, is that he, he pretty much stayed on campus until later.

No, he stayed until his, his second part of sophomore, junior year. Might have been junior, maybe, I don't know. But I do know for 2 years that— and, and even where he lived was like, wow, this is like a bad, a bad place. But, um That was a really rude awakening, uh, of them not being able to have that goes back to the, that goes back to the, the issue.

Okay.

That was, that was our issue. That goes back to, we didn't train them well.

You know, I could talk once in a while. You can just let me just speak once in a while.

Yes.

We didn't, we didn't know how to manage money ourselves. So we didn't teach our kids how to manage money correctly either. Um, and so that was, that was definitely a challenge.

So what were the things we talked about of what we would, what we would tell a younger person, uh, going starting? And that would be one of them.

Learn how to manage money yourself first and then teach your kids how to do it, especially the, the 10-10-10-70 rule. And that's where, you know, 10% goes savings to savings, 10% goes to a charity And 10% goes to where? And then 70% you can spend. Where's that other 10% go?

No, I thought it was— I thought it was 70% is what you live off of, right? 10% is what you give for charity, 10% is what you save, and 10% is what you can spend.

Um, oh, all right, now I have to go look it up because I don't Google it.

But teach them about money. Be, and, and explain to them the purpose of it. And, and I think to some extent we didn't do that.

Live by example, I think.

Yeah.

If you start young where you're— and you're giving them allowance of, of a dollar, teach them to put some of that away too.

Yeah.

And, um, and you need to show them that that's what you're doing as well.

Yeah, that was probably it. But, um, so yeah, so it was, is— was setting him up and getting him situated. And, and, um, but again, he, he moved to Orlando, he moved to Florida, and it was close by where my parents were and where my brother was. So when he couldn't come home because of the curriculum and the activity, I knew if it was a holiday, he could go to my mom's or my brother, um, and he could get a good meal, you know, because it wasn't that far, you know.

As the kids all went off to college, you know, we became empty nesters, and it was, it was, you know, great to see them finish school and to start their career, their jobs, what they wanted to do, you know. And I'm very proud of all three of my kids and what they've achieved so far in life. And it— now, now we're at that stage of having adult children and learning how to have new relationships with them as adults.

It's hard because, you know, you still remember that stinky little kid. Um, so it's, it's always a challenge for parents to, to really—

well, I mean, it's— I kind of feel that same. There's those times when you're around your parents, you, you, you come back to that stage of your life of when you were— when you used to live with them and how they used to treat you and how you used to communicate with them.

The longer you're apart, and, and all of our children except for one, um, they live away, far away. Um, you know, I have one that's in Miami, I have one that's up in Massachusetts, she's about maybe 2 and a half hours. And then we have Noah who lives in the same state and, and pretty much in the same town that we live in. However, that doesn't necessarily mean you see him more. Right. You know, that's not what that means.

You only want to go down and see the one in Miami because he has all 4 of your grandchildren.

He has my grandbabies.

So that'll be another state. That's probably a hint for maybe next, next, um, week's episode. So on that note, we should probably edit this, but we won't. Bye.

Bye.